Nicole Cozean: #1 Mistake to Avoid When Adding Pelvic Floor To Your Practice

I really truly believe that pelvic floor therapy is a different, it's very different than ankle foot back. The marketing's different, the way the patient's problems are different. I think that the way that the, the clinic is set up needs to be different. So that's where I feel like people struggle. If you're trying to just add it on because you see that trend line and you're like, oh, I'm going to do it too. It's like, right. But you can't have.

How to get smarter in business and in life. This is the question and I'm on a journey to get you that answer. I'm going to interview the world's top entrepreneurs and deconstruct their winning secrets. Going to talk about everything from marketing money and living a bucket list life. I'm Rick Lau, healthcare entrepreneur. I grew and exited my 127 locations in my 30s. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. So we are live. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. I am Rick Lau. I'm your host and for the people don't know me, I grew and exited 127 locations and now a 37 billion dollar grocery chain own my clinics, you know, and I'm on this like amazing journey to like meet all the top healthcare entrepreneurs in the world to learn how to get smarter in business and in life, you know, and if it sounds like you like, welcome to the show. And today we got an amazing special special guest, Nicole and Nicole Cozy. And hopefully I got that right. Nicole is a physical therapist, clinic owner, I'm going to say the word influencer and also a business coach and she's on this like mission to change how clinicians treat pelvic floor forever, you know. So Nicole, like I'm just, I'm curious, like, do you remember how, how we.

Met, you know, Do I remember? I think. Well, I feel like it was through social media somehow and it was through maybe Aaron the Bower.

Yes.

Right, right, right, right. So back in the day.

Yes.

Yeah, shout out to him because I feel like that was when I was a baby, baby entrepreneur. I didn't know what the heck I was doing at that time there weren't very many cash based folks. There was nobody that was doing it for business coaching and pelvic health. And so we were kind of like, we were Jesse and was my husband and we were kind of figuring like, okay, I think we need to start this cash based business and let's do it. And then we were like, there's nothing to help us to do that and so, yeah, kind of got in touch with Aaron Labourer at that point and.

Just, you know, kind of Bizcon, wasn't it? I think you spoke at PT bizcon.

Yeah, but it was. Right.

I was doing it as well, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So. But here's the thing. I spoke at it. The first year that he had to do it on, remember, was Covid. It got canceled. Yeah. I mean, it didn't get canceled. It pivoted quite, quite quickly. Actually. Looking back at that now, that was a cool thing that had to happen so fast. We didn't know what Zoom was all about, all that stuff. The world was different then, so. But yeah, I think that's how we first got connected. And then since then, I've been keeping in touch on what's. What's going on and really admire you and your work and what you've been able to do with your clinics.

Happen.

Yeah.

So, yeah, and I remember a chat the last. I remember a chat like a couple years ago, because I think at that point you're. You were just about to start your online community, you know, and now I start seeing. Taking it off. And so, yeah, like, it's been. It's been awesome to kind of see that, see that, see that community build, you know.

Yeah. Because, I mean, at that point when we first met, Pelapt Rising wasn't a thing. So it was. It was mostly pelvic sanity and I was all clinic focused and since then have grown into now, you know, pelvic PT rising, which is a whole other entity, a whole nother business on unto itself. But that was. I remember. I remember actually shortly after we both did bizcon. I remember connecting and you were so gracious with your time and we just like chit chatted and that was so great. I. I will never.

With your husband too. Right. You know, Jesse. Right. Talking about marketing. And then I was admiring your marketing as well. Yeah.

And then it was just like, gosh, you know, and we've done that with folks as well. And I just. I'll never forget that as being like a son of pay it forward kind of a thing for that. Because that was so wonderful to be. Because it feels isolating at times. You feel like. I don't. I think I'm smart and I think I'm doing the right thing, but it helps to have someone else, like validate that for you. That also has done it before. And it's just really. It was a really neat thing.

Yeah, I think we were talking about that. We were the conversation we had was like, you know, like at that point, like, you know, do you want to, do you want to build a community? Do you want to build like a course? You know, is this subscription model or is it course? You know, and then, then we dive into the marketing and so it's actually kind of cool to, to see all that stuff. And, and I was looking at your Instagram and. And I think you launched like was, I think it was called a pelvicon. Right. You know, like you had like 625 people. Was it last year? Like they all flew in into like, you know, into a in person event.

Yeah, so, so last year there, this year 2023 was our second year doing it. Our first year was 2022. So through the interwebs I got together with a gal named Jessica Real, who is another pelvic health physio, a clinic owner. And we got to be friends and basically co founded this conference called Pelvicon. And it was basically all of the things in a conference that we love and nothing that we don't. So you know, we were looking at things like CSM and things like that where it's like, oh, what are the things that kind of bother me about that conference and let's change it for ours. And we thought, you know, when we.

How many days was it? It was the two days, three days.

It's a two day main conference. We added a pre con. We have a post con now. The cool thing about it is that we, you know, we knew that there was a need. And then I can remember Jessica and I talk and we were like, you know, how many people do you think we could get to the first pelvican? We're like, I don't know, like 100, 150. The first pelvican sold out in four minutes. And we, and we had a.

Like, how was it just through Facebook.

Group or like Facebook groups and Jessica has one too. So we Facebook groups and then online and we were just like, here's the thing. We didn't even have the speaker lineup yet. And we were just like, here's this, this, this in person conference is one of the first in person things that we did Post post Covid. And then we were just like, dude, we had to get a different venue. And then we sold. That was. There was 400 people, 375 people at the first one. And then the second one, let's move venues and go bigger. And we got 625 people there. And then the third one's going to sell, you know, soon on Black Friday. So we'll see. But it's been really great. I feel like. Yeah.

That is insane. That is so so. And this was your first time running an event right? Like the one last year?

Yeah.

And what do you think? Do you. Do you love. Do you love it like you love me on stage? You like all the corn, like all the event management stuff. Like what do you think?

I. I love it. There is Nothing better. About 600 people that are all doing. Have passionate about pelvic floor health. All doing the same thing. A lot of them business owners, not all, but a lot of them. And then that, that just being in the room is so awesome and electric and we're on this high afterwards. The event planning part is you know, difficult and hard. We did have the ability to. Jessica's husband actually has history of his previous job before he joined her at her practice doing events. So we had a little bit of an in with. We didn't. We weren't starting from ground zero which is thankful because it's a whole nother ball game. We could have lost a shit ton of money quite frankly if we would have.

We would have just started full time job, you know.

Oh yeah.

Like ticket sales. The coordination.

Coordination the day of. I mean it's like a huge wedding.

Yeah. The flow. Yeah. 100.

So yeah. AV team, all that stuff. So we have all of that are the back end back daters and everything like that is so. Is pretty intensive. It's a full blown deal now and especially with that many people that we have to deliver on when we don't want a fire fest situation. You know what I mean? So we gotta, we gotta deliver every time.

Yeah. So I'm. I'm fascinated because I think you've done an incredible job to be. To build community, you know. Like it's just I see your personal brand blow up, you know and like you said like you within like four minutes of you just announcing on your Facebook group there's any emails like selling out. Like I don't think that's normal. So I think what you've created is actually pretty profound and pretty like awesome. So I'm. I'm going to give you a virtual high fiver because that is like seriously insane. And so I'm super curious like everyone right now like post Covid like everyone wants a side hustle. Everyone wants to be like a lifestyle coach. I want to be like online like you know like business mentor or a clinical mentor. Like how do you like how would you like, what type of. I guess, what can you share with helping someone that wants to build an online community, you know, to do something very similar.

Maybe not.

Not to open up, like an event that 600 people, maybe like 20 or 50 or 100 people, like, what, what, what. What would you do?

You know, to anybody that wants to do that, who wants to start this side, Hustle wants to build something, who's passionate about something. I feel like that's. You got to start first with what your passion is. But the other thing is, is I feel like I would give to everybody patience, patience, like being patient with the process, because I feel like everybody wants to do it and they think it's going to happen overnight. You know, you can say that, oh, I just put it out in my email list and we sold out. But what really that was, was four years before that, me coming into my Facebook group every single day for free or every single week for free. I was doing something called a huddle up in the pelvic PT huddle. And I would talk clinical stuff, I would talk business stuff. There's so much free stuff that we do, so much stuff that I truly care about. All the dms, all of the. The things outside of my paid stuff. I mean, I do have some courses and stuff like that that people can pay for, but I also have tons. Years of content. We have a podcast. Like, all of that is really, I think, the. Where you build that trust. And so for anybody starting, it's really that. I mean, don't you agree? I feel like a lot of people are thinking that it's just gonna happen overnight, and it's just like, no, no, no.

The amount of people. You know what's interesting, because if I reflect back into, like, how I got started, I was literally doing 10 years of blogging. Like, blogging, collecting emails, like, Instagramming and. And like, you know, and. And being social in social media versus just creeping.

Yeah, totally.

And adding value and just building trust and relationships, like, and all that nurturing. Which was it? Like, yeah, like. Like, yeah, easily 10 years, you know?

Yeah.

And then that turned into this, like, it turned into this relationship where people saying, hey, you know what? Like, can I work with you? Or like, hey, can you. Can you help me with, like, this issue? Or, like, hey, do you do business coaching? Or you do this type of thing? And that's kind of how it kind of started, by helping and, like, just getting your stuff out there. Right? You know?

Totally. And I think that. That it has to come from a place of And I think this is, like, the juxtaposition of it, all right. Is that I think you and I. I would be doing that regardless. That's what my passion is. And so passion drives my time. So it's like that I would be doing that if I wasn't getting paid. And now we happen to have paid programs for that very reason. Is that people were asking, and I was like, well, instead of saying the same thing, you know, a thousand times, I'm going to say it once. And then it's over here. Now, if you want. Now, if you also want to dive through my podcast and go through everything we say, and that kind of stuff is in there in some form or fashion. But, you know, I just feel like it comes from an authentic place. It comes from a. I'm not going to. I feel like people get it wrong when they say, hey, I have this course, and I'm going to force people to care about it. Instead, it's like, I want you to care about it first, to the point where you would give it away for free, and then people will end up paying for it, but only in that direction. Do you know what I mean?

Yes. Well, it has to come from a place where it doesn't like it. Like you said, your passion kind of like, you know, comes out, and it doesn't look like you just want to sell them something.

Right, Right. And so I think that's where, you know, it's one thing for one or two people to come to you and say, hey, you should really do this thing. You know, it's like there has to be, like, a critical mass of people that are like, hey, I really want this from you. Can you please do this for me? You've helped me so much already. And then they'll sign up, and you know what I mean? So it's like, it's that helping process, and that takes time. And so that's what I would. I would say to people. I would give them the gift of patience when they're going to start this process.

But you know what's interesting? Like, I reflect back when I started. You know, I think about now just with social media and just with, like, all the different avenues, whether it's like Instagram, like Facebook, or like, tick tock or YouTube, is that if you know who, like, your audience is and, like, who your people is, and you craft a message and a passion and a mission that resonates, like, with your tribe and your community, it is way easier to do it now than 10 or 15 years ago.

Right. Yeah. We didn't have all. Even. I would even say even five years ago. Like, it is, it is exponential. It's the never been a better time to do that kind of stuff. And I think that there's a lot of. Of ways that it does make it easy. And then also at the end of the day, it's still. I think that's where people also get it wrong sometimes. It's like, it's not like my Instagram is me like that. It's me. Sorry, did it just. Something happened. My Instagram is me. Yeah, is me. And so who else would it be.

If it's not you?

Yeah, right, Right. But it's like that's. If someone meets me in person like that, that is who you're gonna get. So it's like there is that. I feel like it's. You're. I'm not creating anything other than amazing good content that I feel like people should have. It's like I. It's me. It's, it's, it is personal. Like those relationships are real. Those, those friendships are real. Even though I may have not have never met somebody in person, like, I care about people's businesses for real. Like all that kind of stuff I think still exists.

And that is the power, you know, and people, people see through that, you know?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Super, super cool, you know? Yeah, I've, I've always, I've always. Yeah. I think after Covid, the amount of people that I know that are doing these online courses or they want to build a community, like, it's just like skyrocket, like crazy, you know? And so, and there's some people who are crushing it. And there's other people are like, well, how, how do I be like Nicole, right? Or how do I like, build a community like Rick Lau? And so, so if you were to like put together out like, you know, like a sequence of like marketing activities, they would do, like, what would the top be? Like, you would get them do a Facebook group. Like, what would be the very beginning? One of the most frequently asked questions I get is, how can you help me grow my clinic? So every year we put together an annual event called the Clinic Boss Summit. It's basically the Woodstock for everyone interested in growing or selling your multimillion dollar practice. You're going to meet over 300 of the world's top clinic owners. The network is going to be insane.

It's three days.

You're going to learn everything from marketing, finance, HR recruitment, and cellular clinic. And the best part is going to be Orlando, Florida on January 26th is one of my favorite cities to hang out in January because you get the sunshine, palm trees, and best theme parks we usually sell every year within the first couple of months. So grab your tickets now. Go to clinicxl.com to grab more details.

Yeah, and I think you should maybe pick one. I don't think you have to do a Facebook group anymore. I think I've had a lot of success with that, and I think people are still on Facebook mostly for the groups. But I feel like you'd pick one online platform that you really love. I think that for me personally, when I'm also having other things to do with my clinic and pelvicon and everything like that, like, I need. If I'm trying to do it all, I'm not doing any of it well. So if I love video content, then I need to choose a platform that does video content. If I love blogging, even though blogging itself, like, my not be like the most sexy thing to do anymore. How can you get your written content in front of people? Is that an email list that you start? Is it something. So I'd feel like I'd pick one thing that you're really good at and that you really like and then start there. For me, that worked happened to be Facebook groups, and now it's. It's both Facebook and Instagram. And then I would say that you just gotta show up, show up consistently. And even if that only means once a month for you, then that. Then you show up consistently once a month. I think that people do it in these spurts because they get all excited and then that it goes silent.

And I think the key word is consistency. Even if you look at. Even if you look at everyone's like Instagram account, people don't consistently, like, post. Right. You know, it's so inconsistent. It depends on their mood or like, what's going on in their life, you know, whether they're happy or sad, whether they're on vacation or like someone quit on that, you know?

Yeah, totally. And that's. I. That's part of it, right? So you have to show up consistently. So that's like part of it too. And then. Yeah, and then I would, you know, also make sure that people are doing something that you can also own. So I would also simultaneously with that, make sure that you're having something where you can gather your own email list. Right. Because if we're on these free platforms.

So email still works, right? Nicole?

Oh, my gosh. Email Is powerful.

Okay.

Email is powerful. As long as it's authentic and it's not annoying and you're.

You're still valuable email that people want to read.

Yes, absolutely. So it has to be that. I mean, our open rates on our email list is, like, huge. It's like in like 50, which is, like, unheard of. But that's because people want that. We don't put BS in there. We don't put things that people don't care about in there. It's like, that's what it is.

You know, your people, you know, your tribe, you know, so. Yeah, yeah. And I think you hit the nail on the hammer. Like, you know, like, this is something I talk to a lot, is that, like, all the social media channels out there, whether it's Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, like, you're really renting those platforms. So you only own those assets. Right. You know, the only real asset you own is an email address or a phone number. Right. And I think everyone during COVID got really tested because when everything shut down, everyone is relying on the phone numbers and emails to actually get people to come to their clinic or to reactivate them or to do something like, virtual. Right? Yep.

Yeah. And I think that's really important to remember is that we have to. We have to have something that we own. And it also helps if you understand that it's an amazing free. Instagram's free. Right. So it's like, if you understand that, it's like, it's a blessing that we have that. And you can't get mad at the algorithm. Oh, they change this. You got to figure it out, write it, and just be consistent and figure out how you're going to make sure that the people that are following you there know you and that have. That are coming to you also through your email list, I think.

Yeah, I love it. I love that. And then I just want to reiterate, the thing you talked about, and I'm a big fan of that as well, is that like. Like, don't move on to another platform or channel until you master one of them. Right?

Yeah.

Because what you don't want to do is be, you know, okay at Instagram, okay at Facebook, okay at TikTok, but you don't get traction on any of them.

Right, Exactly. Totally. And. And I feel like you got a mistake.

I see a lot of people make. Right.

So, yeah. And I feel like you got to understand who your audience is. Like, the content that we make for pelvic sanity is very different because That's a patient facing platform. It's very different than the contact, than the content we make for Pelvic PT Rising. And so it's also understanding who you're talking to and who you're most passionate to help and stick with one audience until that audience builds and is it becomes easier. And then if you wanted to diversify, you can if your passion lies there. So I think that's another unique thing about something that I've done. Like Pelvic PT Rising wouldn't exist unless Pelvic Sanity was successful. Pelvic sanity was successful. First, my in person brick and mortar clinical practice.

That's. That's your clinic, right?

That's my clinic. That's my patient facing stuff. All of that stuff is all client patient focused. So and then that became successful and I became known for having Pelvic Sanity. And then it was like, oh, she was a good clinician. And then it was like, oh, I also have this passion and I'm noticing things in the field that I want to change. And so I also then created something that talks specifically to practitioners. But those two things are very different. And one happened first and then the other one happened. I didn't try to do both at the same time. I think that was another important piece of like, oh, how are, how do you do it all now? It's like, well, Pelvic sanity is, is a different entity than Public PT Rising is. Do you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is the problem that all US CEOs, entrepreneurs have, right? We got that shiny object syndrome. We're working on one business and we want to start the next one. Right?

Yeah. Right. And so it is. You have to be disciplined. Right. And that's where you come back to that consistency you were talking about and, and proof of concept to make sure that like your idea might be great, but if it's that great, it's going to be great a year from now as it is right now. And make sure that you're taking care of your home base first.

Yeah, you know what, I'm super curious because I'm seeing a lot of like owners trying to do this. Like a lot of the owners are like, hey, you know what? I need to have a personal like brand, you know, so that it helps me with recruitment, you know, and I think like when I think about your business and what you've done, like that's really kind of helped you with that, have that helped you with recruitment, you know, in terms of like pts for your brick and mortar business. Like, just because of your personal brand and all the. And all that stuff that's happening.

Yeah. You know, it's a very interesting question. I will say the short answer is yes, but I think that I still had to work at it a lot. And so I think that people maybe have listened to the podcast a little bit, but that's different than. And they might know of me. They maybe. It took a course from me, but that's very different than getting somebody to apply to. To my job and actually come to Southern California. So that's. It's different. And then there's a lot of things that go along with that. Right. So some people I've talked to, where I'm like, you live right here. Why haven't you applied? And they're like, oh, well, I thought that you only hire experienced clinicians. You see people from out of town. I don't think I'm ready for that yet. So now all these people's, like, limiting beliefs in their own mind are holding them back from that. So in some ways, it's challenging, actually, that way. So I have a clinical training.

Don't you have a clinical training program that trains PTs?

Yes, well, now I do. Right. So now I do. But I didn't start out like that. So I've learned now as a business entrepreneur. You know, one of the things that you. We were talking a little bit before, and you were like, what. You know, what are you paying attention to right now the most? And I'm paying attention mostly to that hire, like creating that hiring pipeline and creating an amazing job that's going to attract the kind of person that I want to work with. And I think that. That if you think about what my vulnerability is at Pelvic Sanity, my clinic is staff, and so I have to be very conscious about recruiting and recruiting Pipeline and making sure that people know how to apply, what it means to live in Southern California. There's so much misconception around that. I mean, there's just a lot of challenges around that. So I feel like the first answer to your question is, yes, I do think it's helped my online presence to build a recruitment. But you. We still have to work really hard at that to make sure that. That everything's in alignment and everything that they think they're getting, they're actually getting, you know, when they come to the clinic and stuff like that. So it's. It's been. It's been hard. Especially post Covid.

Yeah, I heard. Yeah. Do you know. Do you know Josh Funk? Nicole?

No. I don't.

Yeah, you should check him out, because he's. He's this, you know, he's a good friend of mine. He. He has nine clinics in Marysville. Right.

Oh, cool.

And he owns a. He owns a. A company called Rehab to Perform. And his social is quite strong, but he also has, like, this, like, clinical training program. It's been this amazing pipeline, you know, to nurture clinicians who end up taking that course, and they end up, like, you know, doing internships with them, and it ends up, like, actually wanting to work at his clinic afterwards. Like, he's. He's figured it out. Like, you know, we were just out in, you know, we were out in, you know, Phoenix at the WebPT conference. We both were speaking, and he was sharing his story on that. It's like. It's a wicked story, and it sounds like a lot of, like, parallels with what you're doing. And. And because you're doing very similar things as well, you know, because. Yeah.

Yeah. So. And now our. Yeah. And to your point, and to, you know, Josh's point, it's like, now that we have what I've seen work, now we just need to. We're making it much more streamlined in an actual program. And that's what I feel like is missing, because especially in the pelvic health world, people go into pelvic health and then they're looking for mentorship, they're looking for guidance. They don't want to be the only pelvic health provider at their clinic. So if we can provide that, then that's amazing. And that's my. One of my other big passions is not as much patient care anymore, but it's teaching training, seeing patient care through the eyes of my clinicians. And that's what really gets me excited. That's what I'm excited to do. So it's all lights you up perfectly. That's what lights me up, man. It's like, I can tell by your eyes. I love it. It's so amazing. And. And helping them to see when they're stuck on something, helping them to get to the answer of where. Where they need to go with that patient. That's what I love to do. So we have, like, an actual clinical mentorship program at my clinic that is very structured, that everybody goes through that, you know, so that's another piece of that recruitment piece is. Is not just how do we get them there, but then how do we keep, like you said, nurturing them and having them grow as a clinician at our clinic and that's what we're really proud of, that we're very consistent on.

Yeah, cool. Super cool. You know, and yeah, and I guess on the next topic was that like, right now there's so much stuff going on, like in the economy, like in the news, changes in our industry, like there's a war, there's inflation, there's declining reimbursements, you know, the student loans, the, the wage pressures, the fear of recession. Like, what's, what's top of mind for you right now? Outside of like, outside of like. Because I think you mentioned the labor shortage. Outside of that. What's kind of top of mind of you right now? You know, like that you're, that you're paying most attention to.

You know, I think ultimately I'm paying most. So outside of that, I'm paying most attention to the overall growth of awareness of pelvic health in our, in our area. So I feel like worldwide, if you would have said the word pelvic floor 10 years ago, people would be like, oh, wait, what is that? I'm not really sure. People now are understanding what it is. They're hearing about it, they're learning about it on things like TikTok. And so I think that, that we're. What I'm paying most attention to now is meeting people where they are and trying then to, for pelvic sanity anyways, trying to help them to understand how we can help them and what best care and standard practice is. Because now with almost so much information, they're bombarded with, wait, what do I really do and who do and how can this person help me and why should I go to you when I can do an online program from a personal trainer and that kind of stuff. So we're really like working into how can we, how can we help patients where they are and, and own our expertise essentially in that way. So that's going to be our next sort of challenge.

Check this out. I just went on Google to look at Google trends. Exactly what you said. This is the search term pelvic floor here, Nicole. Yeah, Worldwide. This is back in 2004. Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like this hockey stick curve right now. Right. It's insane, you know?

Yeah. So when you think about this is.

Trending good, isn't it, Nicole?

It's like it's going right freaking awesome. So that, but. So that's what I'm paying attention to. And then where are those people hearing about it and how, and then how can we sort of insert ourselves into there's their thinking when their attention span on social media, for instance is not, that is not that long. So how can we, you know, be a presence for them? How can we educate through that platform? And I think it's, you know, I think it used to be that I would say that you know, as a clinician, yeah, you don't really need to be on social media and I think as a business owner it's imperative now you don't really have a choice anymore. And even as a, as a, as a clinician it's where your patients are and so, but they might not know their patients yet. So I think that that's where we need to sort of look at and really grapple with what is our role in patients lives. Because I feel like it used to be that we just fixed symptoms and that's it and now it really is into wellness optimizing and that kind of stuff. Which is why I think that cash based therapy is going to be, to kind of be the wave of the future.

And all your clinic is one, your clinic is 100 cash based, right? Like, or even 100 work like out of network or cash.

It's all out of network cash. We don't bill, we just give a super bill and it's. And we have a multi. And I have six clinicians. So.

Okay. Wow. Wow.

Yes.

Wow. That's pretty cool. And so I'm, I'm curious, is that like, you know, do you think it's, you know, because your clinic is 100% public flow, you don't do anything else like your, your specialty is like, you know, is, is pelvic floor. Right. You know, do you see a world, do you think it's possible for some of these existing like you know, multi million dollar orthopedic clinics to actually add like half a million or a million dollar of a public floor revenue line into their practice, like cash? Right.

I think they, I think they can, I think it's possible.

Have you seen it or No, I.

Have not seen it done well. Okay, here's the thing.

I have not seen it done well either. Like yes, I see, I see, I see specialty clinics do really well. But the ones that do it, that have like, you know, they're doing a couple of million dollars already they want to introduce like whether it's like a new service or like a cash practice but they can't get it started, you know.

Right, right. And I mean, and that's where you go back to is it's really your passion. Do you Know what the hell you're doing. I really, truly believe that pelvic floor therapy is a different. It's very different than ankle foot back. The marketing's different, the way the patient's problems are different. I think that the way that the, the clinic is set up needs to be different. So that's where I feel like people struggle. If you're trying to just add it on because you see that trend line and you're like, oh, I'm going to do it too. It's like, right? But you can't have, in my opinion, you can't have a high school kid doing zigzag drills right next door to a person that's telling you that they haven't had sex in five years. And do you know what I mean? It doesn't fit. So I think that's why people struggle with their, like, they just see the trend line. They see, oh, we gotta add pelvic floor. I'm gonna hire a pelvic therapist. And then they make that person do their own marketing. And it's like. But now it doesn't that. I mean, the art clinic vibe is calm. It's more like a spa than it is a physical therapy clinic. So I feel like that's where I always talk to people. Like, you cannot dabble in pelvic health. You either need to be passionate about serving that population or just gtfo, like, just don't do it because you're, because you're doing a disservice to those patients.

How would you. So if you're. Let's just say you have an existing clinic is doing a million dollars already. Like, how. What's the right way of doing it then?

You know, if you have like an existing orthopedic clinic, I think, then I think that you'd have to be. Have a dedicated space to. For your pelvic floor clinic that has soundproofed walls, that has a nice, like, vibe, that has, like, low lights, like a table warmer. Something that's going to make somebody that wants. Don't just box, like, feel very safe. And it. Yeah, that feels very safe. You're going to be in a vulnerable position. You're going to be talking about vulnerable things. That's not just out in your. That's not a curtain, that's not in a closet, that's not next to a high school kid who's talking about, you know, their ankle sprain and needing to go to football practice the next day. You know, there's. There's a certain type of intimacy that needs to be created. So if you're thinking about adding a pelvic health component, you have to think about the type of person that you are going to be bringing into your clinic, and that needs to have a separate intake form and that's. That's a separate door to go in.

Right.

Or, or just like some. And you have to train your front desk staff to know that, like, oh, a person that's coming in for pelvic floor might not be able to sit down. So don't say, have a seat. You know what I mean? It's like, there's. There's a lot of things that need to go into that if you're going to do it well. So if you are at a managerial level, that's like just looking at the number, but you don't really have a passion. I would say, like, listen to the therapist that's saying, hey, we need this and that and a table warmer and another light. Turn off the fluorescent lights. I need a dimmer like that. You might think that that person's like, super extravagant and like. But they're not. They're trying to create a safe environment for talking about very intimate things with somebody.

Well, what happens if they brought in, like a clinical lead, whether passion was a public floor and, and they were responsible for creating this because they're passionate about it and they want. They want, like, they want to, you know, make these changes and, but, like, you got to give them the power and the authority to be able to make these changes, right?

Absolutely. And a budget that's going to work. You know, I think that there's a, there's. It's not a ton of upfront equipment stuff, but, but there is a, a level of detail that needs to be there to make that. And I'm just going to say it again. A safe environment to have somebody come in and be able to talk about that. Peeing, pooping, sex. Like, no one wants to. To talk about that in a, you know, up, you know, upbeat, like, you know, you got like, you're bumping like, music playing, like, no, it needs to be like, very, like, chill.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

So. So it can be done, but no one's doing it well, as far as I can tell.

Okay, interesting. But. But yeah, you know what? I, I think you explained how to do it, you know, but that. Interesting because I think a lot of people see the opportunities and when people with these declining reimbursements, right. You know, like, everyone's like, okay, there needs to be another way. Like, you're looking at revenue diversification, but like you said, no one's coming to figure it out. Or maybe, maybe they gotta hire people. Like, that's within your, you know, within your community that, who are passionate. Right.

Yeah. Right. So it's like if it's not you, then you at least have to listen to the Pearson that is, and then we have to be able to, to put your money where your mouth is. Like, if you're going to start a pelvic floor program, you got to be able to do that. And your pelvic floor patients, ironically, are probably already coming into your clinic. So there's a lot of internal marketing that can go on with questionnaires and cross referrals, and it can be a beautiful thing, but it just has to be done in a way that's going to serve the patients the best, I think.

Yeah. And so, and what would you, what would you say is like the, what would you say are like, three ways that you could, you know, like, market pelvic floor. The, the easiest, you know. Right. For, for a clinic in this environment.

You know, that's already an ortho clinic.

Yeah. Because, because it's not part of their messaging. Right. It's very different. Right.

It's very different. But I would say, I mean, I, I, I think that screening your current patients for pelvic floor problems and teaching and having a teaching environment that, for your pelvic health therapist and your ortho therapist would be able, able to talk about those things. So I have a screening protocol that's, you know, a 10 question questionnaire that shows like, does, does your, would your person benefit from a pelvic floor evaluation? And if you answer three or more of the 10, it's like, that can be like a good way to have your ortho patients screened for pelvic health concerns and just to know that this is a thing that we can help with. So I feel like there's, there's, that there's just community outreach and community workshops I think that you can do on the connection between things like low back pain and pelvic floor dysfunction about pregnancy and postpartum. So a lot of it is if your patient has had a baby, we always say in the pelvic health world, once postpartum, always postpartum. And so there's different lens to look through for those, those folks too. So I feel like that's another way to sort of get into the pelvic health world through recently having a baby, returning to exercise, which is already in the wheelhouse of physios, but then taking it into that next level and making sure that your exercise prescription and the. The way to get back is also taking the pelvic floor into account. So I would say that those two things are probably most important to think about.

Wow. Cool. And there's tons of Facebook groups to support these communities too. You just got to be social in them. Right. You know?

Right.

Or be helpful. Right.

Mom's groups are like, huge. So, like, we can post one thing in a mom's group and get like three patients. It's pretty crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, we have a girl in our community. She's not in your program, but her window, you know, she's built up a pretty decent sized pelvic floor business and she's 100. Just leaning on these Facebook groups, like the mom groups that you talked about, and just adding content. Not like. Not like trying to sell the service, but just like it being helpful, like here doing this, blah, blah, blah. Just getting in there and adding value and helping people who are. Have. Yeah. Have. Have concerns or problems within that Facebook group. Right.

So, yeah. And that. And that might be something too, that like a clinic owner doesn't think about. Like, let's say you have an orthopedic practice and you want to add pelvic floor. Like, like, you could also add into that clinician's time of how they're getting paid. Like, hey, you're going. You need to be active in these groups. And does that person want to do that or talking to the admin of that group? Like, that's. That's a different way of marketing than just putting up a pay them to market. Yeah. Right. You can. Absolutely. And that's, you know, it's kind of killing two birds with one stone. And. But I think that that's a different way. Like, it's not just. It's not just, oh, you know, jerking around on Facebook. It's like. No. Like, there's a very targeted group of people that can use your services. We just have to get them to understand that that's what. That we're here and that we can help and that we're the experts to do that.

Yeah. I love that. I love that. Cool. Wow. Geez. So much like gems from you. And so last thing I just want to ask you is like, you're juggling so much right now. You got. You got a baby, you got a newborn, you're running a clinic, you got. You got pelvic con. And then, you know, which is a new thing. And you also have like, you know, your, your clinical and business coaching. But like, how, how do you do all this? Like, how do you manage like, you know, life and business and personal stuff? Is, is even possible to have balance or is it like this roller coaster of sprints and.

Ooh, good question. You know, I think. But before. Okay, well, first of all, I think that I'm going to read you this quote that is one of my, one of my most favorite favorite quotes. And it really kind of is going to answer your question. Then I'll tell you like, tactically what we've done, especially since having a baby, with time blocking and stuff. But it says the master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his labor, his leisure, his mind, his body, his information and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence at whatever they do, leaving others to decide if he's working or playing. To them, it's. He's always doing both. So for me, I really do. We've had to carve out special time now when we have a. Clay is my son's name because I think that to be, to stay present in their. His growth and development, that is important and that's something that we didn't do before. But I do think that if you're passionate about something, then it's fun. Like, so when we're sitting around and we're having dinner, we're talking about this kind of stuff. How can we help people? What can we do? Like, it is fun for us. So, so I, I don't, for us, we don't separate a ton of, of stuff. It's just both and I, I run the businesses with my husband. So for us it's just sort of intertwined in our lives. You know, you asked this question, like work, life balance. Like, you know, we do working vacations a lot. So we just got back from Palm Springs and we had a week there. Sure, we did a couple of calls from there, we worked from there a little bit, but we still also had an amazing time of relaxation and family time. And we can do both. I think logistically I've had to do much better job since Clay was born. Time blocking. So Monday's my pelvic sanity day. Wednesday's my pelvic PT rising day. Thursday is my client facing day where I do most of my calls. Tuesday afternoon is that Tuesday morning is where Jesse and I do stuff together. Like Friday is free and overflow. So we've had a lot more to.

Do with block and batching.

Blocking and batching.

Love it.

I've had to be way more disciplined with that since clay was born. But. But, you know, at the end of the day, I do think that there are times when things are. There's like a little bit of shit going down and you've gotta, you know what, abandon that and just, like, focus on the problem at hand. And then other times where it's. You gotta make time for creativity, and that's where that time blocking and task, batching and stuff has become really in handy. But that quote, we come back to that quote a lot because everyone asks us, like, how do you do it? You're working so much and it's like, well, to us, we're not really working all the time. Like, to our. You love what you do, we love what we do. So it's. It's not like that, actually, you know.

That'S a good one because if, if you feel like it's work, then maybe it's because you don't love what you do. Back to the passion thing.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, that's the core of it.

I mean, we really. I really truly believe that, like, I have a bigger mission than just treating patients or just like, when you read it at the beginning, I want to change the way that people, clinicians, patients think about and treat the pelvic floor. It's a big mission. And so I think when you have that big of a mission and that big of a passion, then there's a lot of avenues to get there. And if that stays at the forefront, then it never really seems like a grind or work is like such a drag. I mean, there's stuff that happens that's annoying or challenging, but it's, it's all because there's that bigger mission involved. And I think if you keep that in the forefront, then it never feels like a drag. Yeah.

Cool. Wow, that was awesome. And I think your. Your philosophy on, like, work, life, balance, you know, or. Or these sprints, like, I, I think I'm 100 agree with you. Like, I'm kind of aligned that same way as well. And I think when we begin the show, I was just sharing with you, like, I, like, I'm in Italy for the next three months and I'm doing the exact same thing. I love what I do. I also want to be able to, like, you know, check off as much like personal bucket lists, you know, and professional bucket list, like, like in my life. And so, you know, and, and so by me designing my life, where I Have a business that I love. I got a team that allows me able to do what I want to do. And plus, I'm also like, doing all these, like, cool, amazing little adventures with my little family. Like, it's very fulfilling. So that, that allows me. It drives me to like, excel in all three buckets. Right.

So, yeah, I think that's great. And I. I mean, now that we have Clay, I strive to do similar things and, and very excited about it. And I just feel like there's just so much opportunity out in that mission that it's like we're just. It's going to be so fun, you know?

Awesome. Well, it's awesome you having this show and. And how do people find out more about you, Nicole? You know, like, how do they get in touch with you and. And learn more about, you know, what to do and how to get inside your community?

Yeah, so a couple different ways. I mean, the biggest way is to just go to pelvicpt rising.com that has all of the links to the different stuff that I do. If you're on Facebook and you're a clinician, you can join the pelvic PT huddle. If you have patients that have pelvic pain issues, then I have a private Facebook group for pe pain patients, and that's finding pelvic sanity. My clinic is pelvic sanity. It's pelvic sanity.com and that's on Instagram as well. And I'm @nicolecozine DPT on Instagram. So lots of different ways to make that. But the best way is probably just pelvic pt rising.com and has all of my clinic facing stuff.

Amazing. Cool. Well, thanks for having me a show and I am super excited to hopefully meet you in person soon.

I know, Rick. We got to make it happen. Maybe in Italy or something, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or maybe the next marketing conference that you and Jesse will end up going to. Like, do you guys go to any. Any ones outside of the industry?

No. Well, actually, it's funny you asked. Said that we were just talking about needing to go to something outside of the health and wellness industry. Even so we were looking at like Aspire or some other type of. So I'll have to talk to you about like, which ones are. Are great.

Because we wanted to do the Russell Brunson one, right?

Yeah, yeah. And then like Kajabi had one, so I, you know. Yeah, I will see it. Like the. But the Russell Brunson one.

I think you and Jesse would like the Russell Brunson one. It's called the funnel hacking live.

Funnel hacking. Yeah, we've looked at that before. We should do that. Cool. That'll be on the list.

Yeah. So. But thanks again for having the show. And. Yeah, so we'll just kind of wrap from there, but. Awesome. Thanks for. Thanks for being on here. Like, I love chatting with you. It's kind of cool to, like, learn what's kind of going on in your world, and I'm so super. Yeah, I'm super proud and impressed. Like, just kind of like what you've done over the years with building your community, you know?

So, super thanks so much. I really appreciate you having me, Rick. I admire a lot of things that you do as well, so thanks so much.

Yeah, so sounds good. Okay, well, I'll talk to you later then, Nicole. And hopefully. Hopefully, you're gonna enjoy, you know, the next. The next. The next. Not only the next 10 years or 23 years of, like, of. Of Clay's life, but, yeah, you're gonna love this whole parenting thing, you know? Like, I love it.

So it's so great. Thanks.

Okay. All right, take care.

Bye.

We'll talk to you in ig. Bye.

Bye.

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