Red Flags of Hiring a Marketing Agency with Isaac Justesen

You know, is that a red flag, right?

Oh that's, that's a, that's a huge red flag. Poor reporting and, and not being able to just tell you specifically, you know, what was our cost per lead. But also ones that kind of keep the reports to themselves.

How to get smarter in business and in life. This is the question and I'm on a journey get you that answer. I'm going to interview the world's top entrepreneurs and deconstruct their winning secrets. Going to talk about everything from marketing, money, living a bucket list life. I'm Rick Lau, healthcare entrepreneur. I grew and exited my 127 locations in my 30s. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. Today we got a special guest, we got Isaac from Patient Partners. Isaac, maybe like in 60 seconds you could, you could tell us more about like know who you are and, and what you do, you know.

Awesome. Yeah. So I'm Isaac, I, I'm the founder of Patient Partners. We're a full service marketing agency for physiotherapy clinics, physical health clinics, chiropractors, that type of thing. And you know, we, we specialize in SEO, web design, Google Ads, social media, email marketing, you name it man. If, if it's marketing then you know, it's something we, we like to help clinics out with. Yeah.

And Isaac, how did we, how did we get to know each other?

Right, so we got connected through the clinic accelerator program. And you know, I joined the community. It's, it was a little while ago now, probably six or eight months ago. And you know, it's been an awesome community to be a part of and I like to jump into that marketing channel and share some ideas and so yeah, that's how we, that's how we connected. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's also like, you know, and I think, I think your dad also owns Parkway Physio and you've been working with him like, you know, on his brand, on his clinic and that's really kind of taken off as well, right Isaac?

Yeah, big time. Exactly. They've just opened a fourth location recently. So it's been, it's been super cool. You know, not only do I get to work with my dad, but you know, the success we've had and that was really one of the foundations of starting Patient Partners was the success we had there going back, you know, even a couple of years ago now.

And, and, and part, Partway's a, Parkway's a big company. Right. You know, like how many therapists do they have like Working between all the.

Locations, you think, oh, geez, probably 50 clinicians, something like that.

50 clinicians across like three sites. It sounds like it's soon to be four. Right. And then, and then how much? Like how much like front desk staff, you know.

They'Ll probably have another, another 15 or so front desk teammates across all the different clinics. Maybe that's a little high, but I think it's. I think it's close to. Close to about 80. 80 teammates all across the different locations.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Junior, like Krista and. And Brian for years. And like, just watching their trajectory, like, bro, is just insane. And I think you had a big part of like just growing their digital presence, you know. Right.

You know, and so big time.

Yeah. And then if we're to even like, look at that as a case study, what would you say are, you know, kind of like, you know, big couple thing, like maybe top three things that contribute to. To like just that rise of like, you know, like, you know, like that brand, you know, that you've kind of worked on for like such a long time with. Right.

Yeah. So I think the, the website and the online presence has been a really, a really big one, both from the local SEO perspective and really increasing the rankings, optimizing the website and making sure local SEO is so massive. I think it's something that even still lots of clinics aren't utilizing quite enough. And so for Parkway, it's been massive for us. But then there's also how we're presenting ourselves on the website, how we're presenting the brand, how we're communicating with people. So the website was a huge one. Google Ads as well was, was massive. You know, they were spending. It was over a hundred dollars per lead before I joined, you know, kind of in the 120 range. And almost immediately we got that down to like 25 per lead. And so when we're getting a really solid ROI like that on Google Ads, you know, suddenly we can start to scale that up and it makes sense to spend more money. And so the Google Ads was another one that's, you know, we've just, we've had some great success with it and we've been able to scale it up and across different locations and different services. And it's been a great way to help support even individual clinicians, ones that, you know, maybe don't have as strong a caseload as others or they're new to the team and, you know, we want to make sure we get them full. So Google Ads has also been A huge one for us.

Yeah. So, so optimizing the website, Google Ads and is there a third one?

I would say, you know, social media has also been, has also been, you know, a useful one for us. It's not as big of a driver as some of the other two, but you know, getting out in the community and, and building some brand awareness I think has been really useful.

Yeah, interesting. So, and, and, and let's, let's talk about like the website, like, which is the first one, you know. You know, like this is something I see, like I see a lot in our community, a lot of chatter about this. Right. You know, like everyone wants to be, you know, top three, like, you know, on like Google, like SEO. Right. You know, but unfortunately there's only three spots.

Right.

You know. Right. And, and everyone that I talked to was like, hey, I'm working with this market agency, I'm working with this one. And, and they just ping pong back and forth, you know, between all these different agencies and they all end up not getting, you know, like, how do I say this? They all end up not getting the, the same like, you know, not getting results. So you know, like if you were to make it super simple for like your typical clinic owner, like what are outside of the technical things that a website needs to do, like what would you say is like, you know, the top three reasons on how you could show up like organically on SEO, like on Google. Right. You know, that a clinic owner could do themselves. Right. You know, assuming working with like a competent marketing agency. Right.

You know, I mean first of all there's the Google Google business profile that used to be called Google My Business. But you know, that's not the website necessarily, but that is super important for local SEO. And so that would mean having great images on the, on the profile, having a, a great description of the company that's you know, optimized with keywords and keyword rich. It's you know, having everything filled out. Your hours, your service areas, your service categories, you know, having reviews, trying to generate some reviews. All of that is really going to help, especially for those near me searches. Physio, near me, chiropractor, near me. Your Google business profile is a really big part of that. And then in terms of the actual on page SEO, you know, on the website.

Actually, you know what, maybe before we jump to the next one. So you talked about Google my business profile. Um, you know, those are kind of the things that you should do. Like one thing I, I tell a lot of people in the Community is like, you have come. You have complete control of this, right? You know, right? Because this is like you pushing out content in there. You like, running your, like, if you got a hundred, like, you know, new patients coming into your clinic, like, you should be able to convert like maybe 15 out of 100 to give you Google review, you know, and like, you know, a lot of content that you have that you already use on social media, right? Or on your blog, you should be chopping that stuff up and then pushing that out on Google business profile. And so you should run your Google business profile just like your Instagram account, because you're likely will have way more traffic, you know, and way more phone calls than you spending that effort working on, on an Instagram or Facebook account. Would you agree, Isaac, or.

100%, man. Yeah. And you got to be repurposing that content and you got to be. It can be uncomfortable to ask for a review, but it's so important and you can articulate it to patients in a way where, you know, it's not just them helping you out, they're helping other patients out by, you know, they now know that this clinic is trustworthy. So it's, it's so important to be getting those reviews and be chopping up, repurposing your content, you know, really maximizing the value you're getting out of that. And like you say, it's very much within your control. And it's, it's, you know, it's not rocket science. It's easy.

Why is it that most clinical owners don't do it then?

I think it's, it's either they don't know or they don't realize how impactful it is, or maybe they just don't have the time. And, and they're. They, you know, would rather spend their time on other, other things. You know, I can appreciate it's, It's. There's a lot to do as a business owner, so where you allocate your time can maybe be difficult. But, yeah, I would say it's probably one of those two things.

I think it's hard coming up with good content. You agree, right? Like, content at the clinic level is hard, right? You know, when the owner doesn't have time to do it, none of the clinicians want to, and they don't want to pay anyone to do it, you.

Know, big time, man. Yeah, it's. It's. Getting quality content is. Is tough, especially, you know, at the clinician level. There's. There's not a lot of them like to be on camera or you know, create content.

So, so what have you seen? You know, because you work with like lots of different, like clinics, right? You know, to help them like with their content marketing and, and also with like their online presence and some of this Google business profile, that stuff we talked about. What, what do you, like, what are your strategies on how, like, what are your strategies on helping, like what we're going to give to a clinic owner on how they could help easily get content, you know, so that you can use it, whether like in, for Google business profile, for example. Right.

I mean, keyword research is a good one, is a good place to start. Just kind of do a bit of research into, you know, what people are searching. You can look at what other clinics are doing and just not to copy them, but to just get some ideas and have your own angle on it, have your own take on a topic.

What do you mean by that? Like, like, you know, what do you mean by the, the same, like a different angle. Like, for example, like, if they're talking like, you know, like, like, do you mean like, specifically, like copy what they do for your target population, like your niche?

Like, sure, you could or you could, you know, let's say they're talking about, you know, they've got an article on foot pain injuries, but you serve a lot of runners. Well then maybe your, your angle on the topic is about, you know, common running injuries or, or you know, foot exercises for runners or something like that where you're just, you're taking the idea but you're, you're kind of coming out from a slightly different, a different angle or, you know, you're offering different exercises so you're not just copying but, you know, know, using, looking around for inspiration rather.

Yeah, yeah, but how do you get your team to do it, you know, Right. You know, like, that's tough.

That can be. It's, it's been a tricky one. And so I, I, some people are just, you know, they're a little, they're a little more open to that type of thing. Maybe they're more extroverted or something like that. So, you know, they're, they're, they're more open to it. But then the other thing I think that makes a lot of sense is trying to, to ask your clinicians to do creative content that they care about. You know, if they're big into rock climbing, maybe we can get them to do some, some videos or images about rock climbing rehab or exercises or treatment programs. And so it's not just A general thing. It's something that they're really fascinated by and really interested in. And you know, I think that's, that's probably the way we've had the most success. Getting the more reluctant clinicians to actually create some content.

Yeah, yeah, I like that approach. Right. You know. Right. And then, and then what about the front desk? How involved is a front desk with maybe creating some of the content? Right.

I mean, in terms of the actual content creation, you know, maybe not as much as the clinicians, but in terms of the patient review generation, they're massive. They're a huge part of that. Either either asking patients for reviews or just kind of creating a great experience for people. Because you see a lot of patient reviews will, will start with, you know, super friendly front desk or something like that.

Yeah, well, I bring this up because, like, you know, when I look at all the social media accounts that do really well in our community, like, they highlight a lot of like, behind the scenes of like their clinic culture, like, you know, or maybe their mentorship rounds or like the birthdays or like all the different things that are happening, you know, and, and you know, like, and usually I see someone that's driving that is like the front desk, you know, so that whether it's the front desk or the office, like, there's usually like one person like that work on the team that like, they're fun. Like, they're kind of like the chief culture officer. They could run around and buzzing and capture like all these like, really super cool, like, mom highlight how like, you know, like fun and awesome your clinic is, you know, not only from a patient perspective, but also from a, a recruitment standpoint.

Right, that's a, that's a good point actually. You know, especially with the kind of social media or getting those images or getting those videos, they, they are actually a really great resource for that type of thing. And, and like you say, you know, they're, they're, they're connected with the patients and they're connected with the clinicians. And so they're, they're, they are in a good position to, yeah, run around, get some images, take some video and you know.

Yeah. And I think this is up to the owner to pay them to do it, you know. Right. Like pay them like, you know, as a project or, or, or, or an amount or allocate time to actually do this role because I think it's quite critical, you know, not only to help you, you know, get like, content for, you know, your website or Google business profiles, but also for Social media to like, show off like, how awesome your clinic is, you know. Right. And, and so, um, yeah, super, super cool. I've like, you know, like, and then what I also find is that like, you can't convince everyone to like, on your team to do it because a lot of the older like, boomers like myself or maybe some of these like Gen Gen Y's. Is it Gen Y? Am I Gen Y? Is it what, what am I, Isaac? Am I Gen Y?

Gen X?

Gen Y. Gen Y. Right.

That might be okay.

I'm a Gen Y slash boomer. Right? Like, we don't want to do this type of stuff, let's be honest.

Right.

And so who you would get to do it is get the Gen Z is they already live and breathe this type of stuff, you know. Right. So there's going to be like someone in the front in the office that like, is a Gen Z that loves this type of stuff, you know, and some of your new grads that you bring on, on board, like, they live and breathe this stuff. They don't use like Google to communicate. Like, they don't use like email to communicate people or call people. They, they do all the stuff through all these platforms already. So you might as well just get them to do it.

Sure, man. They know all the filters and the video editing on Instagram and you know, all this stuff where you and I will look at it and be like, wow, like, how, how long did that take? And they're like, you know, that took me two minutes on, on, you know, on Instagram or something.

Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah. So that's cool. So we talked about Google business profile. Like, that's super important, right? You know, and then you talked about Google reviews, right? You know, right. Being super important. So Isaac, what have you seen, like, you know, in terms of conversion rates if a clinic gets, let's just say 100 like new patients a month. Right. You know, what do you think is a good like, metric that you see with, like, if they did the right things, like, you know, like what percent of those hundred new patients that you see in that month should give you a Google review, you think? Right.

That's a good question. I would say, I mean if you had a 10 conversion rate on, on patient reviews, that's not bad. I, you know, I would say it's, it's. Some people are just aren't gonna, aren't gonna do it at all. But if you had a, a 10%, you know, you had 10 new reviews per month. If you had 100 new patients per month. That's, that's pretty good I would say. And you pretty quickly build up a really strong repository of, of patient reviews and that's 10, four or five star reviews. You know, you're gonna, you don't want, you don't want a bunch of two and three star reviews. Hopefully you're not getting too many of those. And so, you know, if we're going to say the majority of that 100 are, are really satisfied and you know, some of them are, are 100% five stars, then a portion of those are going to actually leave a review. So yeah, I would say getting 10, five star reviews out of 100 patients.

Is, is not, you know what, like I've been throwing the number like 10 to 15, you know, so like it's actually interesting, we both kind of concluded to the kind of like the same number, you know. Right. So, and here's a, here's the math everyone. If you get like, let's just say for every 100, let's just say your clinic gets 100 assessments a month, right? 100 new patients. So that's 10 reviews in a month, right? In a year that is 120, right. In five years that is 600. You know, and you know, it makes it very hard over time for some of these startup clinics, right, to get those type of reviews. Right. You know, and so, and, and, and, and you know, and, and, and I think like, and so I think it's important that you make this like, kind of like this consistent front desk like process, right. You know, with using whether it is like text messaging or maybe using like emails, you know, or even like, you know, before they leave, you give them like, like a front desk grit, you know. Right. You know, based on them like, based on a, like a moment that is triggered because they're happy or like, or like, and then you should be able to like see these 10 to 15% conversion rates. Right?

Exactly. And one sort of tip I'll give you here is if, especially if you're doing it by email or text message, start by asking them like, you know, how was your experience? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And so if they, if they say a 5, then you send them a follow up email that's like, hey, great, would you mind leaving us a review? But if they send you a one, two or three, you know, don't ask, say hey, could you go leave us a two star review? But then instead send that to your front desk so they can follow up and say, you know, hey Rick, I saw you rated us a 2 out of 5 on your experience. Just tell me about, you know, what went on, what went wrong. I just want to kind of learn more about how we can improve and how we can maybe make, make your experience better. So you're going to kind of screen out anyone that's not going to be a five star review. You're going to learn from them and then at the same time you can kind of automate all of those five star reviews.

I love it. Have you seen a higher conversion rate with like, you know, like sending the emails or doing the text messaging in terms of getting Google reads? Or would you say they're equally like the same in terms of conversion rates?

I would say they're, they're going to be pretty similar. Yeah, I would say.

Yeah, I, I thought, I thought text would actually get a higher conversion rate, you know, top of mind, you know. Right.

Like the open rate is solid on, on text message. The open rate is great for sure. But in terms of. Yeah, and like actually leaving the reviews, I think they're, I think they're similar.

Yeah, interesting. So. Well, if you have a higher open rate on the text, because your open rate for a text messaging is like 98%. Right. Whereas like, let's just say an email that you get like, which like they're likely not going to look at it real time, you know, like it might be a couple hours out, you might get like 40%. So even given those open rates, you think a text message wouldn't be higher?

Yeah, I mean, fair enough. In our, in our experience, I, I haven't seen it to be like a crazy difference, but you know, that'd certainly be something worth testing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Cool. All right, so, so what else? Google business profiles. What else contributes to like ranking, like, you know, like on, on SEO that you could do yourself, assuming you got a good agency, you know, and technically your sound is your clinic. Technically your website is set up properly. Right. You know, which we'll talk about afterwards. Right.

So I mean, another simple one is just the, the heading optimization and the, the actual, you know, incorporating the keywords on the page. I see tons of clinics where, you know, They've got multiple H1 headings or they have none at all. And their, their, their headings are just all over the place or they don't even include the, the keyword. They don't even include, you know, their city in, in anywhere on the page. And then they're saying, oh, Isaac, you know, why aren't I ranking for, you know, physiotherapy in London, Ontario. And I'm like, well, you know, look at, look at your page here. You don't even use the word London, Ontario. And so really it's just a simple thing, just looking at your headings, making sure those are optimized. And you know, you've got the keywords in there. You don't want to overdo it.

Like, you can point is that, Isaac, like, you know, you would think that Google's smart enough to know that, like, hey, this website nowadays, like, you know, is like a physiotherapy, like in London, you know, like you stuffing keywords back in the olden days, like, it kind of worked. But like, does it really matter that much? Like, you know, like having, you know, like, does it make that big of a difference, you think right now, I.

Mean, for sure, Google is, is savvy and, and you, you can overdo it on the keywords, but incorporating some strong headlines and, and optimized headlines, it absolutely makes a difference big time still.

Okay, cool, cool. Also, so what else could an owner do that is not technical, you know, right?

Their, their citations are another, another good one. You know, that's not on the website. That's more like getting your Yelp profile set up and your yellow pages profile set up and your, you know, all these, your pain hero citation, you know, all of these things that link back to the website and have all your, your information about it. You know, you have a consistent way. You've got the company name, your address.

Your phone number, citations. Like, you know, how would you explain citations to someone who doesn't understand? Like, that's not in your marketing world, Isaac, because like, citations like directory sites. Is that what you're calling.

You got it. Directory sites. It's like, it's like a digital phone book. You know, it's all these directory sites.

So the more directory sites you're in, you just want to make sure that that information. You want to make sure that those, those oopsies. You want to make sure that. You want to make sure that that information matches your like, website details. Right? Is that what you're saying?

You got it? Yeah, you got to have a consistent sort of name, address and phone number. But also it's just a really good local ranking signal. You know, it's like we said, Google savvy. So it's looking around at all these, all these citations to say, ah, this clinic is, you know, in London.

Why do they do that? Like, do they do that just because they want to see that you're legit. And you're not some, like, fake company. You're some fake business that's trying to game, like, trying to like, you know, pretend that they're a clinic, you know?

Exactly. I. I think that's a, that's exactly a big part of it. And yeah, the more kind of evidence that you can give Google, that's your. You're legit and, you know, you're in the place that you say you are, it's all going to kind of contribute to, to helping you rank.

Okay, cool, Cool. And something that I've noticed, like, since we're talking about Pain Hero, is that like, you know, we started Pain here about three years ago, right? And. And over, like, over like the last three years, we just seen our, like, SEO traffic just go up like, like this crazy. Like last month, like, check this out, Isaac, we got 50,000 unique visitors in a month. It's insane, right?

There you go.

It is insane. And you know what? You know what's crazy? When I go back and I look at, like, what we did, right, to like, get to 50,000 unique visitors, which is crazy, in a month, that's equivalent to like 600,000, like, people, like a city in the year, you know? You know what? We did two things, Isaac. You know what it was?

What's that?

One was creating really good content, right? And then this content, we're just creating consistent content, and all that content across all these different platforms is just driving traffic back to the website, you know? Right? And like, it wasn't even good content. It's just like content that was published consistently, you know? And then like, this content is just. It just spits back out. So this is content on the blog, this is content on YouTube, content on Instagram, content on all these different platforms. And it's all just driving back to the website. And then, because the website was designed technically, like, correct, you know, like, then it started ranking. And, you know, the second thing we did that was the reason why we were getting 50,000 unique visit a month was that, like, was these backlinks, you know, right? And so, like, so a backlink is like when another website that is like another business or another website that is, how do I say? That is established and like, is recognized by Google, that they are like a real business and they're important, you know. And, you know, everyone has a score, you know, and so they call it like a domain authority, right? So, like, they have the high domain authority, and if they link your website to yours, then your points go up, you Know, right? And so that was like at the end of it, like, you know, like those two things, you know, pushing out great content and like we got lucky with the backlinks became like thing and when I last time I looked at our backlinks, so like we had, you know, although we have like 1500, like 1500 clinics in our, in our community, right, we have over 10,000 backlinks. It's just insane. And it was happened all like organically just because like people are linking back to our content, you know. And so Isaac, maybe you could talk about that, right? How important is backlinks and like what can a clinic owner do like themselves to get backlinks in like their local community? You know, whether you're in London, like you know, Parkway, not Parkway, like Langford or in Vancouver, in Toronto, right?

Honestly man, backlinks are probably the biggest ranking signal in terms of showing Google that you know, you're a high quality website and you know, improving your rankings. Backlinks are so, so important. And honestly you knit, you hit the nail on the head with, between the content, like creating great content and consistently creating content and then getting those backlinks, I mean that's a, that's a huge portion of SEO right there. But in terms of actually getting, getting backlinks and getting sort of, you know, helping for, for clinics in particular to get more backlinks, I mean creating, creating link worthy content they call it that, that's, that's helpful. You know, you're gonna get some amount of organic backlinks that way. But also get out there and you know, work with, with local groups, work with, go sponsor a bike racing event and you know, give them a blog post about bike injuries or something like that and you know, they can put it on their website, they'll put your logo out there, they'll give you a backlink. You know, go, go do something, connect with like a local news site and you know, you can either do a sponsored article, pay for an article, or do something that's, that's kind of newsworthy and link worthy. Give an interview.

Yeah, so, so what I'm hearing is that like what clinical owners can do, right, is like they should be out there banging, like they should be out there doing community marketing, right? Like through events, right? Through maybe working with employers or maybe doing content collaboration with other local businesses, right? So when you, whether you do a blog with them or you do a webinar with them, you do a podcast with them or maybe do content Collaboration through your LinkedIn, you just want them to share that information that you guys work together back to your website. Right?

Exactly, exactly. That's that.

And it's not technical. This is like old school marketing that no one does this anymore. Everyone, everyone just wants to give like Isaac, $2,000 a month and say, hey, get me to rank a number like three on Google and expect it to happen without you lifting up like a finger. And I think this is so unreasonable.

100 man. It's gotta be. It's that relationship building is. And you know, we talked about Parkway earlier, that's something they do a great job of is, is they're out in the community and, and they're building these relationships and we've got a bunch of backlinks as a result.

I think that's a better way to rename this. Like, it's not called backlinks, it's called relationship building. Okay. Because if you, if you build the right relationships in your community, right. And then once you work with them, whether you sponsoring this event or you have like a booth there or like you are like doing collaborations, right. You know, or like, you know, then you're just gonna ask them. It's like, hey, can you link this like back to my website? You know, and they're gonna like 100. And then like, if they happen to be like one of those like, you know, big websites that have massive traffic and massive like, like a big score with Google, like, they're just literally like, it's gonna boost up your points, you know. Right.

Big time. Exactly, exactly.

So. So Isaac, what would you say, like the 10 types of businesses, you know, or like what type of like, you know, if you look at some of your clients that you work with, what are some of the 10 easiest, like our most effective, like backlinks they could get in their community. Right.

So I would say sports organizations. Okay, great. 1. Related businesses, you know, whether that's a, a gym or a, a, a rock climbing place or something like that, you know, some kind of related.

45.

Yeah, there you go. There you go. And they'll have a, they'll have a huge domain, domain authority. F45. There's, there's like local events and you know, other kinds of local events is.

Like, if you, if you, if you're involved with like, like what is it, like a CR thing or a pickle ball championship, you know. Right. Like all that stuff that you really do anyways.

Right, exactly.

Close the gap, you know, like ask for, like ask, ask for the backlink, you know, or ask for the back. Right.

So One of the clinics that I work with is, is there. In there in, in. In Chinatown. In, in. And there was like a, there was just a local, you know, come shop in Chinatown event that, that went on. And so they, they were part of that, offered a discount for that week. This, you know, big government website that. The one that put on the event, put their logo on the site, put on, put up the discounts and gave them a backlink. So, you know, really simple types of things.

What about, like, what about like, like other. What about you blogging for other, like, types. Businesses, you know, Right. You know that because everyone needs content, right? What were you blogging? You create a blog article for that gardening, like shop, you know, like in your local neighborhood, you know, like in Oak Bay, for example. Right. You know, or, or, or even like that, you know. Yeah, like that gardening store or maybe like that yoga studio. Right? Or. Or maybe like that. Which. What's that? You know, those, those maternity stores, you know. Right. Like you're talking about like back pain and pelvic floor stuff, right? You know, Right.

Perfect example. And, and it can be a collaborative thing too, where, you know, they write a post for you, you write a post for them and you know, it can be, it can be a bit of a back and forth. And so all of these are, are really good, really good opportunities to, to just reach out and, and, you know, ask them, start a, start a conversation, start building that relationship and, you know, see if you can collaborate on some content.

Well, here's the thing, let's be honest. Everyone in every single business, like, knows that you need content if you want to grow social media, right? And you want to grow like you to rank on Google and SEO, right? And everyone needs good content, but no one, and I'm saying every single business is a good content. But if you could think outside the box with like, creating content for that beer, that craft brewery, you know, right? Or like, it could be anything, right? Like, what do you do when you get drunk and like you slip on the floor, you know, like, and things you could do. Like you can get super creative, then ends up being like some viral like TikTok video, like on their Instagram and, and so, but, but Isaac, I want to hear your thoughts. Like back in the olden days, like, when I think about all those hardcore like, marketers, like, they were just like, buy, call it backlinks across all these directory sites and all these like, you know, these organizations that like, they do this for a business, right. You know, and I just feel like that's like how you cheat the system. Google is much smarter now. Like they want to actually see that you actually have relationships in your community. So you want all these backlinks to be like, if you're in Calgary or you're in, you're, you're in Austin, Texas. Like you want as much local businesses like in Austin, Texas.

Right.

Is that, is that the right assumption, Isaac?

Big time. They have, Google is, has gotten really good at, you know, they can tell when a, when a backlink is unnatural and, and they'll even punish your website. So instead of improving your score, it's actually going to negatively impact your score when you, you know, get on these toxic sites or, or you know, maybe you buy a bunch of backlinks from all these really low quality websites, you know that it's actually going to negatively impact you. And so you gotta, you gotta make sure you're, yeah, you're doing it authentically and in a natural way. And you know, if you suddenly go buy a pack of a hundred backlinks from some random website, Google's gonna see that, that, hey, you just out of nowhere got 100 backlinks. Like that's not natural. And so, you know, you gotta, yeah, you gotta be careful with that. You know, the correct approach for sure is to, yeah. Reach out to these businesses and, and do it authentically.

Let's be honest. Like you gotta run, you gotta run your website like how you run your business, right? Which is you gotta run it like properly, you know, in the right way. Like there's no shortcut to building relationship, AKA getting backlinks, you know. Right. And I think like, this is the shortcut that I see all these people want and they're like, oh my God, I spent years and tons of money with this marketing agency and they haven't like done anything with my SEO. Right. I was like, okay, like let's like, you know, and I was like, what have you done on your side to like help with that? Because you, you need to create good content. You need to be able to like go out like, you know, and create relationships with the community. Because if you don't like, it doesn't matter how great your market agency is because like there's only so much they could do because you're not playing your role right.

Exactly. And that's another reason why SEO isn't just like a one and done thing. It's not like you can just set up the website in a certain way and you know, just watch the rankings come in, watch the rankings grow it's, it's an ongoing, continuous efforts strategy that you gotta stay on top of. You got to continue to build the relationships. You got to continue to create the content. Yeah. You need to, you know, it's something you got to be working on all the time.

All right, let's talk about Google Ads. You know, Google Ads, it's a bit of a, like, every time I talk to an owner in our community, they're like, oh my gosh. They're like, yep, I want a shortcut. I don't want to do the heavy lifting. Right. You know, I don't want to go relationship building. I just want something fast. I want Google Ads. Right. And so, and something you brought up earlier, Isaac, which I love, is that when you started with like Parkway, it was costing them $1 30 per lead. So, for example, like. Yeah, so cost them $135 to get that phone call into the clinic. Right. You know, and it doesn't even, that doesn't, that doesn't assume that that front desk converts that phone call into that, like, first appointment and that. And so, and then I think you got, you brought it down to like 25, you said roughly.

Right, 25.

What would you say? Like, you know, because I know you're working with a lot of clients around came in. What would you say is a good cost per cost per lead, you know, for Google Ads, you know, like, and I want you to factor in like, maybe like a bit of a range because obviously, like, some of the more competitive, like cities like Toronto, it's gonna be very hard, you know. Right. Whereas, like, if you're on Langford, there's only three clinics and one person spends, like, it's gonna be fairly cheap. So what would you say is a good range, you know, like cost per lead, you know? Right. You know, and that should have. A lead is like a phone call or like a definite lead is someone that puts their hands up saying, I'm interested in your service. So that is like a phone call or some type of web form and possibly like a new patient even just booking directly online through like Jane or webpt or prompt. Right, Exactly.

Yeah. So those are, those are, are all my definitions of a conversion as well. And so I would say, like, our Target is usually $30 per lead. But like you say it's, it's some cities, it's so competitive that, you know, if you're, if you're 30 to $40 per lead, that's, that's a really strong cost per lead. And if you think about it in terms of, okay, let's, let's say we're closing the majority of these people that, that put their hands up and say, hey, I'm interested in becoming a new patient. You know, you can pay for that, that marketing spend on probably their first visit. Yeah, you got to pay your clinician and keep the lights on. But for the clinic, you can, you can pretty much pay for that marketing spend on the first visit and then everything after that. Their, their whole treatment plan is just, you're laughing, you know, Whereas if you're, if you're spending hundreds of dollars per lead, then, you know, suddenly you need them to come in two or three or four times before you've even made any money on that patient. So 30 to 40 bucks, I'd say is, is probably a pretty reasonable range if you're doing better than $30, you know. Fantastic.

Yeah. And, and is that all in? Does that also include the, is that just like the Google Ad spend or that also includes the agency cost as well?

Includes the agency, yeah, good one. You always should always be including that in because that's the true cost per lead.

Okay. Yeah. And, and I've been telling everyone, yeah, it should be between 30 to 50 bucks. Right. You know, like cost per lead, you know, and, and that includes the cost of the agency. And so if you, let's good example is if you spend a thousand dollars a month, okay, then, and then let's just say like we're using 50 bucks, like all in for a lead, then you should be able to get 20 leads. Okay. You know, so that's like, that's like, that is something that you should hold your marketing agency or whoever you work with accountable. Right. You know, and then if you know that number with your marketing agency now, right, for Google Ads and you start doing this exact same thing with like your events, your postcards, or any other marketing channel that you do, then you can compare, hey, which of these marketing channel is costing me the less? And if I only have X amount of dollars to spend, then I'm going to double down on that specific clinic. Right. You know, or that specific marketing channel.

Right, exactly. It's, and that's part of the reason why just having the analytics and the tracking is so important because it gives you this, this tool to compare different things. And you know, maybe you're going to try some meta ads for a little while and then you see, okay, I'm getting $30 per lead on Google Ads, but I'm getting $60 per lead on meta ads. Well, let's just take that, all that spend and we're gonna go, you know, double our, our Google Ad spend or, or something like that. And yeah, it gives you this good benchmark to compare all your different marketing channels.

Yeah, Isaac. So you know, like for most, like for most of these new patients that come in. Right. You know, right. Through Google Ads. Right. You know, like, let's just say like, you know, like there's 20 of these leads that come in off like a thousand dollars. Right. What would you say is a breakdown of them calling the clinic versus like filling a web form versus them like just booking online directly when they don't even know you? Like, what would you say is that breakdown of like how that lead comes in through the communication channel? Right. What are you seeing right now?

I'm seeing about, I would say 50% of them book online through like a Jane. I would say maybe 40% of them call the clinic and then 10 fill out a form. So a lot of people like the self serve.

Okay, that's interesting because do you see that right across the board or you just find that with like maybe like the communities have a younger demographics. Right?

That's. Yeah, good one. And, and I'm thinking about Parkway here and perhaps the brand equity and sort of how many people know the clinic already that's going to impact that. Whereas if you're a brand new clinic, you're probably going to have a higher percentage of people calling than booking off.

Yeah, okay, okay, I agree because like I think clinics like Parkway or some of these ones that have like, you know, they're like, if I'm going to see it, like they've heard of like Parkway or whatever, this brand a million times because you know, like Parkway spends a lot of money on marketing. I know that like they even do the crazy radio ads. Is it? Right. Anyone that spends money on radio is like in my mind hardcore. Right? So. So like, so yeah, like a clinic. So what I'm hearing is a clinic that is like very well branded. You're seeing 50 online and then maybe like the other 40% is phone, 10% is like a web form. Right. You know, and then you're saying that if like you're like, like most clinics who aren't strong on their brand because there's thousands of clinics to compete, you know, and you know, they're that typical half a million or million dollar clinic, you know, then you're, you're saying that it's more like 70, like 80, 20 or 70, 30.

Yeah, I would say closer to that exactly. You're going to get way, way more phone calls and way fewer online bookings. And so, yeah, 80, 20, I'd say that's, that's exactly. It's a great estimate.

And which one converts the best? What's the conversion rate of like the, like of the three different buckets? Right.

Well, I mean, direct online booking, that's just, that's perfect. That's the ideal. You know, it doesn't cost you anything in admin plus, they're, they're booking right in. But then after that phone call for.

Sure, because the web forms are kind of useless. You agree? Because those outbound reaching, like, what do you think?

Exactly.

Because I think the phone calls, like, here's the difference that I see. I see that some clinics can convert at 80%, right. If their front desk does a good job with sales training and then. But most, like, they're kind of 50, you know. Right. You know, so, but that's a big difference. You converting at 50 means that, like, if Isaac gets you like 50 bucks per lead, then your front desk only closes half of that, then it's going to cost you 100 bucks to come to the first appointment, right? Now, if your patient is only worth 500 bucks and you give 250 of that to your clinician, there's only 250 left. But it costs you 100, which means there's only 150 bucks less of profit left. Right? So it's super important that, you know, you work with an agent that could get you the 50. But your front desk should be converting at 80%, you know, because if they're not, then there's no point of you spending money on Google Ads. Right?

So 100%, man. And that's the, that's the exact, that 80% kind of conversion rates. Close rate on the phone calls is the exact benchmark that I use as well, where I'm, when, you know, some of the clinics are using Call Hero, for example, and we can see, you know, they're, they're closing maybe 50 or 60%. And you know, suddenly our, our marketing meeting, our, our weekly, bi weekly check in is less about the Google Ads and more about, you know, hey, how can I help your. I'm telling the clinic owner, like, hey, man, like, we got you all these great leads and you're not closing them. You know, look at this. You're closing 50% of them. You know, what can we do? Like, can I, can I, you know, give you some advice or give your front desk some advice or a Little bit of coaching and you know, they're there with their team coaching them. So yeah, that 80% mark, it's very much attainable for sure. It's, it's a, it's a good benchmark to use.

Super, super fascinating. Yeah, we could geek out on marketing. I love talking about marketing. It's, it's kind of.

Yeah.

So like, it's, it's, I love it. And then what do you think web forms convert at like maybe like 10, 20?

Yeah, something like that. Something like that. You know, I'd say it's the, it's the least kind of amount of buy in. You know, when a patient picks up the phone and calls to you, there's a certain level of buy in that they're, they' looking for help and they're looking for something quickly with a, with a web form, you know, they're just gonna, it's easy to just kind of blast a question out there. And so I would say, yeah, conversion rate on the web form is, is pretty low.

What's your thoughts about this, Isaac? I've always like, you know, like I always want to make it super easy for that patient just to put their hands up, you know, saying I'm interested. Right. So have you ever tested like where you offer like a free consult that's booked through Jaden Online, you know, and use Google Ads? Have you tested like that to see whether that has a higher conversion rate, you know?

Yeah, yeah, like they're often just like a 15 minutes, you know, short, not a full length thing, but just like a 10 or 15 minute free consult. And you know, we see some good, we see some good, you know, conversions on that or there are worth it.

Doing it or no. Right.

I mean it's, it's, it's gonna depend. But I would say, you know, if you have a clinician that's underutilized, you know, they're not getting filled up. It's not a bad way. The, the one of the problems with it is that, you know, if someone is, they just want the free consult, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna have, let's say you convert a, you know, a percentage of your website visitors to actually sign up for that. Well, you're not going to get all the people that sign up for the free, free consult to actually become paid patients. So we're talking about a percentage of a percentage. You know, you're just going to get actually a, a, a, a portion of those to become paid patients. And so if you have a clinician who's underutilized and. And, you know, you're paying them. It's not a bad way to help them kind of get their name out there and, you know, utilize their time. But, you know, if you're. If you're sitting at a 90 utilization, it's probably not as necessary as, you know, some other cases.

And do you see a big impact on the lasers? Roughly the same.

Roughly. It's gonna be roughly the same in terms of, like, our Google Ads and things like that. You know, I don't see a profound difference on the clinic side.

There's no point of doing that if there's no profound interest, then. Right. If it's not a big difference. Right.

You know, it's. You would see what you might expect. It would be a massive jump, but we're just kind of lowering the. The barrier of entry, so to speak, for a new patient to put their hands up.

Okay, cool, cool. And then. And then the last thing I want to ask about Google Ads and then is about, you know, like, there's only so much that Google Ads could do, like, to get you new patients in a month. Right. You know, with, like. Because some people expect, oh, my God, I want to, like, I want to get like, 100 new patients a month, you know, with Google Ads. Right. So do you have, like, you know, like, like, like, realistically, for most clinics, like, if they were to, like, what's the most they could expect out of Google Ads, you know? Right. Like, in terms of, like, you know, like, say, leads per month, you know. Right.

I mean, it's going to depend on your, like, your city, how many people are around you. But you're absolutely right. There is a law of diminishing returns where it's like, things are going to start to get more and more expensive as you scale up the campaigns. You know, maybe those. Those first 20 cost you 25 bucks, but then the next 20 cost you 30 bucks. And, you know, pretty soon it's. It's, you know, it becomes sort of too expensive. And so there's also going to be a limit of how many people. You know, lots of people just scroll past the Google Ads and they look for the organic listings on Google. And so there is going to be a ceiling, you know, a limit of how much Google Ads can actually do for you, and it starts to get expensive.

Yeah. So if we're to assume. Right. If we're to. If we're to assume that, like, you know, like, I'm assuming that if you do ads, you're not going to go beyond 5 or 10 kilometers anyways. Right. You know, outside of that it doesn't make sense. Right?

You know.

Yeah, exactly. So if everyone's kind of work within that, like if you're within like 5 to 10, let's just say you use 5 or use 10. Like what's your number?

I use 7.

Okay, use 7. Okay. So within 7 kilometers, like what, what is. Because the density should be roughly the same, right? Actually no, the density on urban is gonna be different from rue obviously. Right. You know, but what would you say is like for your typical city that is, you know, like with 7km, like how much can they expect? And there's like, like there's like three, four clinics in that area. You know, like.

Yeah, it's probably kind of realistic or is. Sorry, what number did you say?

Like 20, like 20, 30. In a month leads?

I would say yeah, maybe 40 or 50. You know, some places in like if you're downtown Vancouver, okay. Where that might be a million people around you. If you're in a rural city, you know, it's probably going to be 20,000. But if you're somewhere in kind of like a middle density, you know, city, you're in a coquitlam or something like that. Probably talking about 40 or 50,000 people in a 7.7kilometer.

Yeah. So that means like, let's just say it's, it's 40. So that means you would have to spend 40, 50. You got to spend $2,000 a month, right? Yeah, $2,000 a month. Like if you do it right you should be able to get like about 40 like leads, you know. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. But yeah, I bring this up because I think a lot of people have this like misconception that like you know, I can just like I'm gonna start a clip from scratch and I'm just gonna like turn on Google Ads and then next I know I'm g. I'm gonna have a parkway and start. Started having 400 assessments a week. I just have to pay.

Exactly. No, it doesn't work like that man. There's a lot more, you know, marketing, it's, it's one of the reasons Patient partners is, is a, you know, a multi channel agency is because marketing doesn't happen in silos. Your Google Ads aren't, aren't, you know, independent, aren't mutually exclusive from your local SEO and you know, your community building and your relationship building and your website and all these other things. It's all sort of works together. So yeah, there's no Secret sauce. There's no, you know, there's no shortcut. You can't just flick a switch and Suddenly you're getting 500 new patients a month. It's, it's got to be.

I wish it was that easy.

Eh, yeah, yeah, exactly. If only. Eh?

Yeah. Cool. So let's talk about marketing agencies because I feel like there's so much like bad marketing agencies out there. Right. You know, especially and you know, there's 99 marketing agencies. There is like even 9.99 I've seen, you know. You know, so what would you say are some red flags you would give on? Like what are some red flags on like when it comes to hiring marketing agencies? Right.

I mean I, I feel like, you know, I, I get a lot of Instagram and ads and things like that for agencies and, and stuff like that. So the ones that offer too many guarantees, you know, I think those, that's, that's one red flag.

I see all that stuff on Instagram.

Yeah.

New clients in 30 days and then like if you don't like, I'll give you your money back.

Exactly, exactly. And then it turns out there's all these qualifications. Well, you have to do this and this to actually get your money back. But for me that's an immediate red flag.

Is so the guarantees. Right. Okay. What else?

You know, ones that are, are too generalist. You know, we, they work with everything from E commerce to dental to so industry.

They're too like, they're not focused. Like, like since this is like a channel for clinics, you know, like you want to find someone who is just focused with experience going to clinics and not with like, hey, they do construction, they do like, you know, all these other different industries. Right. You know, they don't understand the nuances of conversions and copy and all that stuff.

Right, exactly. And you know, these benchmarks and other things that they're going to be comparing to are going to be completely different across all these different industries. And the amount of ramp up time it's going to take them, it's going to be, it's going to be a whole lot slower ones that I think communication is super important for sort of a client agency relationship. And so ones where there's either poor communication or you're just going to get, you know, handed off to five different people that you got to try and work with. You know, it's, it's, that's not going to be, I feel like that's not conducive to a good agency client relationship. So that communication and really open, transparent communication is going to be super important as well.

Yeah. So communication, you know, so guarantees, you know. Right. And then, and having experience in your industry. Right, you know. Right, exactly. Anything else?

I mean, those are, those are maybe some big ones that jump out to me.

What about reporting? Because me and you have this chat all the time as well. Right. You know, like, I think most owners, like, typically get like, you know, like inundated with like all the marketing, like, like nerd metrics, you know, that they don't understand, you know, like impressions, click through rates and blah, blah, blah. Like, oh my God, my CTR is amazing. By the end of the day it was like, hey, how much? Like how. Like back to the cost per lead, is it 50 bucks? Is it 30 bucks? You know, and, and what happens if they can't measure that? You know, is that a red flag? Right?

Oh, that's, that's a, that's a huge red flag for sure is, is, you know, both poor reporting and, and not being able to just tell you specifically, you know, what was our cost per lead, but also ones that kind of keep the, the reports to themselves and just give you a little, a little snapshot, you know, you should have. Kind of related to that transparency piece is it's, you should be able to see these metrics and, and really, you know, discuss them and yeah, get those high level, important, important numbers of like, what's our cost per lead? How many new patients did we get? You know what, you know, the, that really matters, right?

Like, hey, I spent a thousand bucks. How many leads did I get cost per lead? All the other is like, it's just like telling me that, hey, I tried.

But I can't get you the number 100, man. Yeah, the clicks, impressions, all that stuff. Like, at the end of the day, that's not what pays the bills. That's not what really matters. That's not what you're really hiring an agency for. You're hiring an agency to get you more new patients. To get you more leads in the door. More, more new patients rolling through.

Cool. What about if it, what's your thoughts about like, is it a red flag if like they provide like templated solution? Because I see a lot of these bigger companies, like, they just have these templated solutions, like, you know, and like, it's like, and, and they're big so they, they don't have a choice, you know, like it's templated, you know, and, and like, I always worry like, like I'm a marketer myself, so When I think about it, like it works well if there's no one else in your area using that template, but the minute they do, then, and you're, you're not creating any creative content and you don't make any adjustments to it and you're just like using their cookie cutter like template that they've used it for their thousands of clinics, then that to me, like, you know, like, does that even work? You know, so is, is that a.

That'S a huge one. That's a huge, you know, something I see with some of the, some of the physio marketing agencies out there is that it very much is a cookie cutter templated solution. And, and like you say they're big companies so they've obviously done quite well for themselves. But having a, A you know, unique marketing strategy, having your own, your own branding and your own online presence in your own, like it needs to be tailored to, to your clinic. It needs to be tailored to how you want to present yourself, how you want to put yourself out there. So those, those cookie cutters, you know, I see there, there are some agencies out there that for, for their blog posts, for example, you know, they'll have all these different clients and all the clients have the exact same blog post but they just swap out clinic name, city name kind of thing. So it's, the whole blog post is the exact same, but at the very bottom it says, you know, if you need physiotherapy, come to ABC Clinic in Vancouver, come to XYZ Clinic in London, Ontario. Like it's just otherwise.

And then if in the, in Google's eyes like this, like it's the same, it's the same thing, is it not? Like it's not a separate, they just.

See it as duplicate content. You know, it's going to cause all kinds of ranking issues and yeah, it's.

It'S, but it does work if there's not a lot of competition. Would you agree?

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. You know, and is if there's no one else that has this template, you know, it suddenly it looks, it looks kind of unique. But then once there's another clinic in your area that, that has the same, same template, then you know it's not, it's not going to work.

Yeah, because I see that a lot on the like, sure, the website could be somewhat like customized because I think most owners will do that. But like, but like it's just an ongoing content that spits out the blogs, the stuff on Google business listings, you know, the, the, the stock photo, like images, you know, like a stock photo. Like social media. Like, man, like, you know, like it's like you might as well not do it.

Yes, well, you're getting, you know, I see them get like 1 like or 0 likes on, on social media and stuff. And I'm like, man, you get no engagement. Like, you people are probably disliking this. You're probably doing more harm than good just by, by having it up there.

Yeah, yeah. 100. And then, and then what about the red flag of these agency like in their agreements say that you don't own your website, you know. Right.

Because no, I, I, I hate that. Yeah.

And, but, but you gotta be in between the fine print. Like most people don't realize this until the very end. And they're like, oh my gosh, like I'm stuck with you forever because I got to redo everything. Even if they could like, like trans help you, like, you know, move it over. Which like it's going to be very hard. It's a lot of effort. Like all the fucking remapping that needs to happen. Like, it's just like, yeah, like you should be able to own your website. No Isaac, at the end, who, regardless of who you work with.

Exactly. And it's not even just your website. It's your analytics accounts, your Google Ads account. You know, lots of agencies, your, your, your Facebook ads account, you, whatever it is, lots of agencies kind of keep these behind, you know, lock and key. And as soon as you say, all right, you know, thanks so much, we're going to try someone something new. Your website's gone, your analytics are gone. Your whole.

That's like kind of uncool. No, like it's kind of like a little like, it's kind of like a dirty part of the industry. Right.

You know, that no one really talks about 100%, man. And you know, I, they, they probably do it because they want to. You know, they wanted to.

It makes sense. Like, you know, yeah, it would make sense. But like, you know how many owners I talked in our community, they're like, I feel like I'm like, I got my, I'm handcuffed that I can't do anything. Right. You know, and then they bite the bullet to actually do it. And when they do it, they literally start from scratch because like, and if they've been around for 10 years, like, you know, or then they negotiate something really expensive, you know. Right. You know, like, you know, like some type of like, okay, fine, I'll pay you 5,000 or $10,000. You know, I'm just like, oh my gosh.

Yeah, It's. No, it's 100 true. And you know, it's, it's an unfortunate, you know, kind of approach that yeah, a lot of agencies out there, there have and you know, it's, yeah, definitely something to look out for to make sure that you own. If you're, if you're interviewing different agencies, you know, ask them, you know, make sure that you own. It's your website, it's your ad account, it's your analy analytics. And then if you, you've got the control to, to if they're not getting you that, you know, $50 cost per lead on Google Ads, if they're not, your website isn't performing organically, you know, all these things, you've got the control to make a switch to someone else or, you know, whatever.

So, so if that's the case, Isaac, then would you recommend that like people who do work with an agency and they're going to start a website that is, should be on some of these, like more like public platforms like WordPress or Wix or these other things where like if things don't work out, like at least you could bring in another WordPress person in there or another Wix person in there versus like the proprietary system where like you can't, like there's no other option. Right. Except them or. Yeah, I mean, another one. Or even click Funnels, like all that stuff.

Click funnels, yeah. High Level, that's another one.

High Level is the same thing too. Like is that, that's, that's, it's, it's sort of that.

Yeah, it's very difficult. It's going to be, you know, a lot of these places, they, they'll, they'll build your, your websites and your funnels and things like that in High Level. And then it's very easy for them to duplicate that for all their different, different clients. But once you leave, you know you're gonna be, you're not going to be necessarily part of their high level anymore. But I think WordPress, Squarespace, Wix, that's definitely the way to go. You know, they're going to give you the most control over the website.

So what platform you should use. So, so if the platforms you should use is WordPress and Squarespace you said, right?

Yeah, yeah. Or Wix. Those, those, those three. The best one, I'd say.

Okay, yeah, even Wix or I thought Wix wasn't good for SEO.

But I mean it's, it's, it's Yeah, I find it the least. I don't find it as, as user friendly as well, just like for, for a clinic owner. Okay. But it's one that I see pre used out there. So. But WordPress, I mean it's, I'm a WordPress guy.

I was like, hey, at the end of the day, WordPress template, like if you don't love this person, you can do it yourself, you know. Right. Worst case. Or hire someone on Fiverr.

Right, Exactly. There's so many. There's free templates, there's paid templates. You can, you know, hire someone to build you something customized.

Should you avoid then. So you're saying go high level, right?

Yeah, yeah. If you know, you'd probably.

Funnels.

Yeah. Oh geez.

I'm a Russell Brussels fan.

Okay. I done well, man. He's done really.

Hey. Hey, Isaac. You know what's crazy was that like. What was crazy was that like I had this click funnels account and I created this like this landing page that took off. It had a boatload of traffic. And then when I, and then when I launched my clinic accelerator.com website, like I was like, okay, I don't need this anymore. Right. You know, and you know what ends up happening now is that like I close that account so when people search that like that page still shows up and I can't do anything about it.

Damn, man.

Like I got school.

Go.

High level click funnels. Anyone that has their custom, like custom accounts. Right. You know? Right.

Yeah, exactly. You know, if it's. Yeah. Things that you can't. That's that you don't have complete control over or, or if an agency is, is. Yeah. Kind of, you know, they, they build you within their own proprietary system. You know, instead of something, something really public, something kind of Open source like WordPress or, or you know, something like that.

Okay. So I love that. That's it. Go high level click funnels, like custom programs. Anything else that you see a lot of like people of your clients like you know, like, or, or a lot of people get trapped with.

Those are the main ones that, that come to mind. Yeah.

Is it Kujabi or something?

Is that one kajabi or something like that? I haven't, I haven't come across a clinic that use. Think it's very similar to, to a click funnels or, or a high level.

Yeah, like, like even these accounts, they're not designed for SEO. Would you agree?

100%. Yeah.

No, like they're like splash pages, right? Like they're landing pages Designed for single use. But like, hey, if you want 50,000 unique visitors a month, you're not going to build a website using clickfunnels or go high level. Let's be straight up up, right?

No, exactly, exactly.

You don't even like, even like parkway that might get like 5,000amonth. Like, you're not gonna get that type of traffic using like, you know, click funnels or.

No, Exactly. We use WordPress. You know, it's, it's, you've got great plugins, it's easy to use. It's, you know, we have a paid template, but nonetheless, WordPress is definitely, it's, it's by far my favorite, favorite tool.

Dude, I love this episode. Like, it's very refreshing talking to you. Isaac. You are a very different cut from most marketers I know.

So glad to hear that, man.

Let's wrap up that. So, but Isaac, how do people find out more about you and what you do, you know, and, and how you help clinic owners? Right?

So, so yeah, our, our website is patientpartners Co. You know, you can check out the websites, learn about our services, our, you know, see some case studies, a couple of testimonial. You know, you can feel free to reach out to me, Isaac, at PatientPartners co. We've also, you know, we've got an Instagram. But yeah, go check out the website and you know, reach out. I'm happy to offer people, you know, a free website audit website and marketing audit. We'll take a look at your site, kind of give you a sense of what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong and you know, start, start from there.

Yeah. Love it. Okay, so everyone, that was awesome. So we'll see everyone next week on the next week's episode of the Client Boss, like show. So. All right, thanks, Isaac. That was awesome.

Thanks, Rick.

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