Why you Should NOT Rent in a Medical Office with Manju Asdhir

I thought, I'm in a medical building and I'm naturally going to get referrals just because I'm here. Oh, 100% wrong. 100% wrong. Zero referral.

How to get smarter in business and in life. This is the question and I'm on a journey to get you that answer. I'm going to interview the world's top entrepreneurs and deconstruct their winning secrets. Going to talk about everything from marketing, money and living a bucket list life. I'm Rick Lau and healthcare entrepreneur. I grew and exited my 127 locations in my 30s. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show, Everyone. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. And so today we got a super special guest. We got Manju. She's a chiropractor who built a clinic from scratch, you know, turned it into a multi million dollar practice with I think 17, 17 practitioners at the end. And I think from start to finish, like it took you eight years and you sold it as well, right?

Yeah, nine years when I left. Yes.

Okay, nine years on you. And now she's one of our clinic accelerated business coaches and she just solely works with solopreneurs and startups. Right. So did I get that right, Maggie? Did I miss anything?

Got it right. You got it right. And you know what I was thinking? I was like, I didn't even count my satellite practice because I had a small satellite practice as well. So that would have been almost like 20. But yeah, anyways, without going, boosting myself a little.

So. And I want to start with like I, I discovered a super interesting fact about you.

Yes.

I didn't know that your cousin is like that billion, a billion dollar, like tech, like CEO of like Dharmesh from HubSpot, which I'm a fanboy by the.

Way, you know, I heard, I heard. Yeah, he is.

So is it like a first cousin, second cousin? Like, like what's, how close is it?

It's actually my husband's first cousin. Wow.

Insane.

Yeah, so lots to learn from him. Just like a super humble guy. Put him on stage and he becomes a different person. But yeah, it's been great to be surrounded with those people.

So I don't know if you know, but like I'm a HubSpot fan, you know, and, and I actually took a photo of Dharmesh. Okay, check this out. Like years ago. You see this?

So you were at one of his conferences or talk.

Yeah.

That's so cool. So next time we can go together.

Yeah, we totally could. And I was like, oh, I gotta, I gotta Have a photo with this person. Back then, I don't think selfie was that popular. Okay, I gotta get the cell phone with this guy. This guy like had this crazy talk, you know, like it was like on stage like super nerdy and it captured. It captivated the audience. Like he was. Yeah, like it was super cool, you know.

So I think our like, our grandma was there. She. He was, she. I don't know if he played. Pointed her out at that point, but. Or at that time, but I think she was like very excited to be there as well. So that was.

And my biggest regret over all these years is that like, you know, not. How do I say, not buying the hotspot stock like years ago because it. That that stock just got like crazy. Like insane, you know, Right. Like insane. Like the numbers, right? You know, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like swimming in like swimming in money, you know.

Oh yeah, he's doing well, but just like a really nice, humble family guy. Really nice guy.

Yeah. Cool.

Yeah.

So. So I'm super curious. So you're, you're insider community, you work with a lot of the solopreneurs and the startups, right? Like, what would you say, like right now is kind of the top challenges that you're seeing right now that people are going through?

Yeah, that's a really good question. Coming into it, I thought, oh, we're going to go through like this issue and this issue and everyone's going to have all these like a plethora of different things that they're encountering or having troubles with. Truthfully, no matter what stage you are in the game, whether you're a solopreneur or you're a larger clinic. Recruiting is the number one issue right now. It is very hard to recruit. It is hard to find that personality. Heck, like just even a person like a physio, a Cairo, an arm. It is so difficult at this stage of the game and there's just so much competition right now. So just making yourself stand out is. It's a very difficult thing as a solopreneur.

Yeah, yeah. But are you like, you know, I think like once a solopreneur gets busy, right. You know, then that become like, are you. What other issues are seeing outside for the people who are not recruiting? They just like literally started their clinic, you know, right. Maybe like whether six or a couple, like a couple years ago and just trying to pay themselves. Right. You know, like what are like some of the common challenges that you're seeing with like more like the startup slash soulpreneurs you know, not. Right. Not quite ready to hire. Right. You know, like another practitioner because they want to feed themselves. You know, they took out a big mortgage. They got up, you know, like, they got the small space and they're trying to, like, you know, like, get some patients in the door. Like. Yeah. What are you seeing?

A lot of those guys are just starting off with time management issues.

Okay.

I'm working all the time. I have this many patients. Where do I find, like, where do I fit in this business stuff? Where do I watch these videos? Where do I get mentorship when I want to talk to you, but I have to see these people. That's a big one right now. Like, they're not blocking and batching their time because, you know, they're losing possible.

Like, can you actually squeeze. Can you actually squeeze in, like, running the. Like running the business when you're just a little in this startup mode, you're treating like, 30, 40, like, hours. Like, how would you.

How.

How would you get them to, like, slot that in, you know? Right.

Yeah. It's just looking at that bigger picture. Right? So I think a lot of the times, you know, what ends up happening is you're spending time on a daily basis putting out fires. And you're like, I'm exhausted. I'm seeing patients, but I'm still spending an hour a day doing this. I'm not seeing growth in my practice. And when you tell them, let's start with even an hour, just an hour of dedicated time, and this is what you're going to do it in. We're going to, like, you know, we're going to help you and coach you and give you these resources. And, yeah, you might not see one patient, so you might be losing X number of dollars, but in three months, you're going to be hiring this person making double the amount. They don't really see that value until we bring it to the table. And it is very possible. But we start off with small pieces and then we grow. So I don't say to them, okay, now take two hours off your time and cancel these patients. I'm like, let's start with half an hour. Let's start with one.

So start with half an hour a day or start with one hour a day.

Yes.

Commit to. And this is not. This is not time in between patients. Right. This is not like, this is like, time when you are, Kylie, like in the. In the zone to actually solve complex problems. Right. Agree.

You're not putting out fires in that time. You're Growing your business. Yeah, exactly. So it's dedicated time. And you know, unfortunately at the beginning it is, you're trying to do, you're trying to do it all. Right. You're trying to really do it all. But if we sort of, again, if I'm able to help them along that way, and I think we've, we've learned, learned little tips and tricks to do that, we can make it happen. So it start, starts off small and then you kind of, you kind of work your way up to that two hour block.

Yeah. So ideally, so what you're saying is like one hour a day and then.

And then I would start with half an hour, half an hour a day. Truthfully. I truthfully be like, I, I say half an hour in a week. I start off with that because a lot of people may not be able to even do in half an hour. You could do, you know what half an hour turns into an hour. The week after turns into an hour. Like it just happens so fast. It's just convincing people to just block it. That's the hard.

I think it's more of forming the habit. Right? Form the habit of committing to time to work on a specific business problem that you have, which is like, you know, and, and you are not exhausted when you're doing it, right?

Yeah.

Because you're not doing, at the end of patient care, you're not doing in between like the coffee breaks. You're not doing in between like that, that mis. Cancellation because during that time you can fight the fires. Right? That's a good time. Is that a good time to like, like manage the firefightings? Like in between like you're like lost time.

Exactly. No, that's what it is. Like I have 15 minutes, I can have a coffee. Oh, wait a second. This happened. So I gotta, gotta deal with this. Right? So you wanna make sure it's, it's done at an appropriate time in your day too. Like what you said, not the end of the day where you're completely exhausted and have to go home and maybe, you know, take care of your kids or make dinner or whatever it is. Right. We wanna start getting a little bit of that work life balance in there.

You know what, I actually like this because I'm just thinking back, like, you know, like kind of my startup days, you know, like, I agree, I think like when I go back, like, I think with most people, like that dead time that you have in between like patience or like these gaps that you have. Like most people call that working on their business, but that's actually your best time to do the firefighting. Do the email do like the, whether it's a staff complaint, landlord complaint, all the other complaints, firefighting firefighters. During your blank spots.

Right, yes.

And then, and, and then what you're saying is that commit to whether it is an hour a week or half an hour a week or an hour a day, you know, where you have like just focus. Time.

Exactly, exactly.

And it should probably be like, you know, it part should be done during time where you have the most. That you're the most alert and have the most energy.

Yeah, right. For me, that was always a lunch hour because I would constantly be so busy with patience or with putting out fires. Like, I forgot to eat lunch today. Oh, okay. Well, now I actually have time. I can eat lunch and work on this. Right. So it's like a dual purpose in many ways. That was what worked well for me. And I find a lot of. With our solopreneurs as well, it's just like, go, go, go, go, go. I forgot that I didn't have my tea or like my lunch today. I didn't even get to eat. I'm like, I'm completely drained and I'm scarfing down this huge dinner and then I'm exhausted. And now you're telling me you have to work two hours. Like, what are you crazy? And so we completely break it down and it's just an easier pill to swallow, to be honest. Cool.

And I think that thing you talk about which is important is like risk, Right? You know? Right?

Yeah.

It comes to a certain point within your. Call it soulpreneur or business journey, where you have to decide, why did you decide to start up your own business? Right. Is it so that you're just like working for, like you're literally just like an employee for yourself? Right. Or are you taking the risk to build a business so that you don't have to be there every single day? Right?

Yeah.

And if that's the case, then you have to be very deliberate with your time and. But then knowing that you have to take a risk, which means losing money. Right. Or not making money, maybe not losing money. You're not making the type of money that you would make if you would be treating patients, but you would have to work on the business, right?

Yeah. And like long term, you know, if you actually put the dollar value of how many patients that you wouldn't be seeing because you have that two hour block in a week, if you look at it over a six month, over one year, and you implement other tactics to work on your business. You're actually doubling what you're going to be making in the long run. Right. So you're not losing, you're never losing. You're just investing your time and losing in the short term.

Yeah. And then the key is you have to, if, if you have that two hours or that five hours, you have to look at it as your like stock portfolio or your investment. Right. If I put in two hours, what type of return am I going to get on this investment? You know, because I'm losing time, I'm losing time that I could spend with patience. So it has to be working on stuff, it has to give you a return, like, you know, like, like something like within like the month, within the quarter on, you know, or like within like six months. But it has to be something where you could see a return. But if you're just spending that two hours to like, like do email.

No, no, no, no. Yeah, no, we don't want to do that. That's your 15 minutes. Like, you don't need that.

Okay, I, I love it. I love it. And so, because once again, I hear everyone like in our community, you know, say like, yeah, I, I'm so busy, I don't have time, like, you know, like I don't have time to work on the business. And actually, you know, they do have time work on the business. When I ask you what you're doing, like relating to the business, like they're just firefighting, doing emails.

Yeah, yeah, that's very common to hear. And that's what a lot of people think is working on the business. Yeah, right. That's what they're used to. Like, no, I'm working on it because I'm trying to put up this fire and I'm going to keep this person because of that. But again, what is your long term goal? Like what's your rock that quarter? What's something that you want to attain at the end of the year? If you want 100 Google reviews, putting out buyers is not really going to get you there right at the end of the year. So it's just that 1% every day it accumulates over the end of the year and it's often easier when you look at it that way. Easier said than done.

And I think also, but on that, on the other side, like some people decide to be a sole printer because they just want to be a sole printer. Right? Like they just want to have minimum staff. They just want to like, you know, like they don't want to manage. They want to grow like a million dollar business or even half a million dollar business.

Yeah.

They just want to build $150,000, $200,000 and not have overhead and not have a boss to report to. Right. You know? Yeah, that's okay too. Right?

That's.

You have to choose, right? You agree?

Yes, I totally agree. I think that's either way, it's. It's really nice. But it's just, you know, the first thing I ask people when I meet them is, you know, what do you want to gain out of this? Like, what's your long term vision? What. What do you really want right now? Because that can evolve and change. And a lot of the fears and barriers that they have, they might be broken down with a little help.

And so the top barriers, you see.

That people have the fear of failure. Yeah, that's a big one. I would say barriers, like just insecurities and low confidence. Like I don't really know if I have the capability of doing that. So a lot of it's upbringing too. Like, oh well, I thought I would be here and my family expected like there's a lot of like that coming from immigrant family.

Right. You know, I came from Immigran and family. My parents had these expect. You roll your eyes like I'm rolling.

Like, listen, I had this conversation with I think three people yesterday and, and we just said we don't need to explain it. We get it. Like we. You don't even need to say it to me. I'm like, they would start and I would say, I can finish those paragraphs for you.

Chiropractor. Why not?

Doctor, 100% doctor.

Why not? Surgeon.

Been there, been there. I have two kids now and I'm like, I can't do this. Like history cannot repeat itself.

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, you know, very.

Yeah, yeah.

Super interesting.

So.

So let me ask you if you were do it all over again. Okay. You know. Right. If you were do all over again and you were to start a clinic from scratch. Okay. Like what would you do? Like, what would be like kind of the biggest like milestones, like, you know, like how would you plan out? Like, what would you do over the course of the first 12 months? I'm just super curious knowing what you know now because I actually think that like once again, you're quite humble. I think what you did in that nine year period was like pretty like awesome. Like me witnessing your journey of starting it up, you know, to you exiting, you know. Right. You know, like you Know, to the size of your practice, like, it's pretty cool. And I think a lot of most people that I see in the community, like, you know, like, a lot of clinics don't give it. Get beyond $200,000 a year. Right. And then a lot are stuck at half a million, you know, and half a million dollars, like a break even clinic, you know. Right. Like, so, like, what's the point of owning that clinic? Right. You know?

Right. So totally. Yeah. No, totally. I agree. Like, growth is definitely that mindset you have to have. And often you can learn that too. Right. If you don't have that at the beginning.

Yeah.

So big question. 12 months, what would I do? Um, my journey was that I didn't have a mentor. That was a big one. I didn't think I had the money to invest in that. So I would say even prior to starting, I would have had a. A mentor in my profession or in the physio profession, somebody who had done it before me and made those mistakes.

To what to help you with, like, selecting, like, you know, maybe your location, like, floor plan. Like. Like, what would you use this mentor for? Right. When you're just like, startup mode.

Yeah, I would use this mentor for treatment planning.

Okay.

It's very specific.

Okay.

Very specifically. That would be my big one.

Okay.

That would be like the first three months, I would say.

Okay, let's go even before the first three months, let's go to the point where, like, you have to decide what is the ideal location. Right?

Yeah.

Like, I'm curious about you. Like, what do you think would be the ideal? Like, when you look at, like, you know, like, what you've done, you know, I think you had two clinics, you know, like building a satellite. What do you think is an ideal? Like, what's a good location, you know, to choose?

If you asked me that at the beginning, you know what I did? I chose a medical building.

Yes.

I shared an office with an orthopedic surgeon. We had just a classic, which is.

The classic path that most people.

Yeah, this is going to, like, this is going to bring me 100% success. No, no fail. A guaranteed, the nicest guy. Okay. I had. I was on the second floor. Only doctors surrounded me. Every type of, like any type of specialty. I shared two rooms with him. There were probably like maybe 300 square feet each. Really tiny. One of them was a smaller than that. That was a storage room. And I thought, I'm in a medical building and I'm naturally going to get referrals just because I'M here.

Yeah. You're wrong.

Oh, what's that? Sorry.

Well, you're right or wrong?

Oh, 100 wrong. 100 wrong. Like zero referral, zero. Nicest guy. He walked me through all his appointments, taught me how funding works at the hospital where I can get referrals. Who's that person that I have to go to, Became best friends with the receptionist, like all these great things.

Yeah.

But no referrals.

Okay.

I had one patient for. For the first month of my practice. One patient.

Okay, so what you're saying is you wouldn't set up. You don't. You. You wouldn't rent these rooms in a medical office to start off. Right.

I would caution against it.

Okay, so. So what would you do knowing you knew now, like, you would rent a gym or you would actually go all in and get like a thousand square foot space and just commit to the going, like, all in, you know? Right. Or you would still, like, want to take that safe, like rent a gym or, like, do the bottom of my condo, you know, like, like your typical garage stories. Right.

I honestly think, you know, if I had to look back, because I did all that, so, yeah, we can talk about that too. But the best thing that happened to me was that I went all in and I rented this heritage house that was 100 years old. The entire space, it was about 2,000 square feet. And I was like, I have six to seven rooms in here, and I'm going to make it happen and I'm going to make it work because this is what I'm committed to. And.

But that's a big commitment, right? You know? Right.

It was, but it was a mindset shift. Right? That's what it is. It's like the mindset of you can't fail, that I was okay to fail.

Okay.

I was okay to make mistakes. And yes, I didn't overall want to fail, of course. Right.

Well, no, like, if you're going all in, like, you know, I think the safe route most people do is, like, do what you talked about. I'm going to do home health. I'm going to do like, yeah, I'm going to rent a room, like in this medical office, or maybe I'll rent a room in this, like, naturopathic clinic, like, whatever, like. Or I'm going to rent a room, like in a gym, you know. Right. You know?

Yeah, yeah. So the difference is, like, I was in a rural location. Right. So obviously you have to, you know, think about those factors. Like, I wasn't in proper gta, probably paying Thousands and thousands. Right. And I was getting a space that was right on the main street. Perfect location, complete traffic, right? Yeah. Complete visibility. I had the right community connections at that point. Like I had space, spent years building that. Right. That was a big thing. But I had, I had my journey of working in a gym. I worked as an associate.

So would you start off like, would you like, if you were to. Let's just say you weren't ready to go all in. I just, I want. Would you start off in the gym or would you start off like in the medical office or you would like do it in some other allied health, right? Like rental.

I would definitely do it where there's some traffic available to you. So a gym or maybe like a renting a room, keeping all financials in mind because you have natural traffic and natural patient interaction where you can maybe.

Not like a gym, like a rec.

Center, you know, all that, all that, right. Like you have maybe 200 people walking through the door. Even 10% of that is great. Like you would start, wouldn't choose a.

Medical office or, or is that still you was. You'll still add that or.

No, no.

Yeah, here's the thing. Like I used to own clinics on exactly the third floor medical office is one of those health science centers channel, right. That has everything.

Oh yeah.

But they've over the years they just turn into specialists that has no like no traffic and they're all like super expensive paid parking and like there's no traffic going there. There's no retail traffic, you know and.

Exactly.

And like my ideal space if I'm going all in on a 2000, 2000 square foot space is I want retail traffic, I want that drive by traffic. I want, I want that grocery store nearby, I want that popular, you know, you know that popular coffee shop like where people do business, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like you have the late, you have people, right. Like you don't have someone coming in for a specialist appointment, only that you think you're gonna, you're gonna get a referral for, for your practice, right? It's not necessarily, it doesn't work that way necessarily. So. Yeah, I completely agree with you.

Yeah, yeah. But no, and also I've seen a lot of clinics do not. Well, also when they rent these rooms in industrial areas, right. You know, for that same reason I was like, there's no traffic in these industrial areas like, or these office parks where like, you know, like it's small like two level buildings that people like don't like, they want to go home.

Yeah, exactly. You want to be in and out. Right. It's, it's the thought process, like the planning versus the execution. You might think certain things, but again, coming back to that idea, if you had a coach or mentor, you would.

Think, yeah, these, these are, these are like big decisions that will help impact like whether how quickly you're going to get to that half a million mark, you know, or that million dollar mark. Right. You know, if not, you'll be stuck just like, you know, like billing 150, 200k for yourself. You're like, why did I end up doing this? It's just better for me to be a fee split chiro massage or physio working at a practice, you know.

Right, exactly, exactly. Right.

Not do the stress, you know.

Right, exactly, exactly. So no, I do agree with you on that. And then, you know, you, you kind of outgrow it and then you're like, I'm all in now. So it happens.

I love it. So, so the 2,000 square feet, like let's make it applicable to maybe the urban places. So you would like, you agree, you would choose something that is like retail, like high traffic, you know, like where, like, yeah, like grocery store, the alcohol, like the, the place you buy alcohol. Like, you know, like it's just where people hang out and do most of their.

Right, exactly. It's like you're going there for an everyday purpose. It's not sort of like a very specific appointment or reason because you want to just they want to see you. Like, oh, they might not come visit you the first time, but like, oh, I went to that plaza that I always go to and like that person, I think I remember seeing something there. And so again, perfect location.

I love it. And you would stay away just. We're clear. You stay away from a third story medical building or like an industrial area.

We agree 100%.

But hey, next to your thing, if there's like a, like a main floor walk in clinic, that's bonus, right?

Sure. Yes. Yeah. And you're able to establish that connection, right, with the physician. They're fantastic. I actually had a physio underneath me in the building and that ended up being one of the craziest things because I didn't read my LE properly and there was a non competition so lots of fun. I made a lot of great mistakes. But honestly, it's a part of the journey. Right. You kind of need to. Yeah.

And it's good to like. Yeah, it's, it's good to not spend 10 years to figure out those mistakes, right?

Oh, yeah. You gotta keep trying because like, some somehow it's gonna work out when you keep trying, Right?

Yeah. And so. All right, so this is great. Whether you got that two rooms or you got. You went all in to do the 2,000 square feet. Right. You know? You know, like, what would you do initially just to like jump start, like getting new patients, you know? Right. And let's, let's put this in context.

Yeah.

The only thing you have is like you worked at a clinic, like, you know, maybe in that community for, for two, three years, you know, so your name is somewhat searchable, you know, and past patients may look for you. Like, so this is a bit of a clean start. Like, you know, if there's only like, like three things for them to do, what would you get them to do?

Okay, good question. I'm trying to think back now.

Well, you need to think back now, you know? You know, it's very differently now. Like, would you like, you know, how would you like, jump start getting new patients? You think?

So the top three things that come to mind is if I was located in a high traffic area like a gym or all that. You need to. People need to know that you actually exist there.

Yeah.

How do they know that? Simple. Simple. Make a simple poster and blast 25 of them in that facility. Put it on the front desk. Make sure there's like a sandwich for it even. Like, these are basic things. Right. They don't cost a lot, but people need to know when I come to this facility, whether it's like a gym or a high traffic area, somewhere there's a sidewalk. Like, they need to know this person exists here.

Yeah, I, I love it.

Sounds old school. It sounds very old school. But you know what? It doesn't take a lot right. At the beginning. It just takes those basic steps. I had a solopreneur I spoke to yesterday in that same position, hired somebody and said, like, they don't have any new patients and it's been six weeks. And I said, do they even do your. Like, does that, do the pts, like the personal trainers? And does like that facility even know that you exist? Oh, we don't even have posters up. We've never talked to the trainers. We. I said, do you have a sandwich board? Like these are simple things.

Yeah. That you're talking about doing, like, I'm going to call it a community marketing. Right. You know, sure. Some old school community marketing. Go chat with other local businesses, you know, in your neighborhood. Drop off flyers, like find ways to collaborate on content. You know, like do like treatment swaps, freebies. You know what you need to do just to drive. Like bring people of influence to your clinic. Right. So that they could bring other people like in.

Yeah, yeah. And nowadays like what I would do if I was starting from scratch again is like I would just get a local influencer in there.

Yeah. And what's an ideal local influencer? Like a, like a, like a mom, Like a one of my. Like, like an influential mommy blogger or like personal trainer or like the barber or that stylist. Like in that area. Like who would you go after?

I would go after somebody who has a lot of followers, number one. That's like the first criteria. Right. So you don't want somebody who has like 20 people that they're being followed. Like, you know, you want to have somebody in the thousands at least, maybe not 500,000, but at least 2, 1, 2. And probably I would say, and maybe this is a whole bias is I like women influencers. I like that because it's like they kind of go into the detail that you want.

Yeah.

They can really focus on the females that want to come see you or have certain issues or they can relate better to them, but they can also relate to the males that are like, oh, my wife has this and maybe I should recommend her to this place. So I don't know. I find that they give a lot of detail insight, a lot of that. Like, you know, I agree.

Like we were in Florida and I did this marketing workshop, you know, to like, you know, hundreds of these like owners. There's. And we were working on the ideal customer. Right. You know, who is your dream, like customer. Yeah, it is that, it is that 45 year old mom. Okay. With like the kids. Right. And the husband, professional job, like married. And like what did that guy say? They have a triple influence. Right. You know, because like it's, they are a referral source. Sorry. It's them. It's going to be their family and it's going to be their parents. So you got the entire generation if you could like zone in on like that, that, that, that, that call it that. 45, that 45 year. 45 to 55 year old mom. 40 to 55 year old mom.

You know, the mommy groups that they go to, the community that they have, like. Yeah, you know who makes plans? I don't know about your household, but in my household my. I make plans with my husband's friends and that's how we get together. He doesn't really know what's going on?

I have no friends. You know, all my friends are business related. So if, if I'm not like, like interacting with business people, I'm like, oh, I'll just. Yeah, my wife does that stuff. Right.

So there you go. See, she's the influencer.

Yeah. It's interesting. I spoke with this guy named Brennan. He started up a clinic from scratch, like in downtown Vancouver, right?

Yeah.

And his cutthroat there, like, it is like in the heart of like the busiest intersection. And I, I remember him and, and I was like, hey, like, how you like. And he worked at, like he worked at this clinic for a very long time. Six, seven years, right. You know, so his name was quite searchable. I asked him like, you know, so we're talking like, when he start up his clinic. I think within like a couple months, like, he was slammed. Right. And I was like, what did you do? All he did was just, number one, make sure his website was up so it's searchable. So when people search for his name, like, at least his website comes up, you know, and they could book with him. Right. And then the second thing he did was that he did what you talked about. He just went door to door, mean all these, like, local influencers, all these different, like, local businesses and like, you know, and did treatment swaps, right. You know, or went to these like, different community events just to drive traffic. And he got so busy, right?

Yeah.

That he's like, you know, like, he's like, I'm full now. I don't have time to do that stuff. Right.

So I just spoke to him right before you.

Okay.

He's. He's doing so great. He's doing it.

Yeah, yeah. And then, and then we had this conversation. He goes, rick, you know, like, like, I'm thinking, I'm doing Google Ads, right? You know, I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, that other stuff you did, like, was working, like, yeah, like, why don't just keep on doing that stuff, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Google Ads. But Google Ads is competitive, but, like, it's just easy because you just pay someone to do it, right? I think this is the fault that a lot of people have, you know, is not the fault, but like the easy way is like, let's go online, let's go Google Ads. And like, just pay someone to do it. Right. You know, Right. Versus doing kind of like, I call it the old school marketing or the real, like, type of marketing where like you go out in the community and do that, you know, so that's Right.

And I think we, you know, our profession is hands on. There's a personal touch to it.

Yeah.

So similar to that, that community feel and that being. Putting yourself out there. It's not an easy thing to do, but there is a personal aspect to it. Right. So when you're growing a business and you see someone starting out, you almost want to help them. You're like, oh, they introduced themselves. That took a lot of time. Let me go reach out to them. There is. There is a uniqueness to it. Like, you know, people that, for example, if you're hiring someone, you'll usually end up following up with the people that actually called you and said, hey, I sent over my resume. Just wondering if there's something that. There's something else that you need, for example. Right. Very few people do that, but it just adds that personal layer 100, you.

Know, like, it adds that small, like, touch. Right. What do you think about doing Facebook groups? You know, like, just going in there and like, because that's an easy way to do it. Do like there's certain types of Facebook groups in your neighborhood, you know?

Oh, yeah, right.

And just don't go in there and sell. Right. You know, just go in there and just like, be a member and just be valuable and offer like, tips, you know, or like, you know, help people, you know. Right. Like, whether it's like, like a mom's group, you know. Right. You know, or it is like, you know, like, maybe something that you're passionate about. If you're passionate about pickleball, maybe there's a pickleball, like, thing within your, like, neighborhood. Right. You know, but that's a very like, low way of do, like an easy way of doing it that you don't have. Like, it's. I. You spend an hour doing that type of stuff, you know. Right, yeah. Versus you knock on the door. Right. You know?

Yeah.

Visiting one of these places. Right.

So it's so. And it's so niche. Right. Like, if you have, for example, like the pickleball example, there's be certain injuries I can actually talk to those people about. Right, yeah. And so it kind of makes it easier in some ways.

Yeah.

But so I actually, like, that was the bread and butter of what I started out doing.

Was it the Facebook groups or the pickleball?

It was. No, no. Like, going into.

You don't seem like a pickleballer.

No, not pickleball, but like anything that I could get in my hands and to be like, oh, you have this happening. Like, there Was an arthritis group, I think I remember at the beginning and I would just go there and do talks. Right. So there's a certain population that we obviously cater to, but Facebook groups are a huge one. Like even just, you know, your kids soccer game.

Yeah. If you enjoy my content, I write a clinic owner newsletter. I share with you what's trending right now in marketing, selling your business, recruitment, operations, front desk and more. Become a better clinic owner. Join over 22,000 clinic owners who get this free newsletter each week. Go to clinicowner.com to sign up today. Yeah, I love it.

Like, why not, right? It's fun, dual purpose. Win, win.

Yeah. Yeah. And once you become a coach. Yeah. It opens up a whole new other stuff. Right. So. And then, and then one last thing that I think like before I start spending like stupid money on marketing, because you could get lost in marketing because there's all these people like selling you snake oil and they, they don't deliver. Right. So do the, do the stuff that's within your control that you could do. I would say Google reviews. Like, you gotta run your Google business profile. Run it like your Instagram page. Right. You know, so if you put the same on attention on Instagram and you do it on Google business profile, you likely get more traffic and calls and patients. Would you agree? Magic.

I agree. I totally agree. Like, you know, when you purchase something on Amazon, which we're doing all the time, the number one thing you look at is reviews, right?

Yeah.

So similar to that, your page and the reviews that you have, all that really matters, right? Like it matters more than most other things that you're spending dollars on. So I would strongly suggest that be, you know, like, no stock photos. Make it very personable.

I would love that. No stock photos. That's like my biggest line, you know?

Oh, yeah, totally. Like I've had this conversation probably a billion times this week. I'm like, no, just any casual photo with your phone, like, just take it and put it up, it's fine.

But the more, the more organic it is, the better, the more raw and authentic, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to, you want a little glimpse of that person. How. And they have a smile on their face and it just makes you feel good that you're going to go see them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's this legendary like stock photo I see on every single website. It's this like Asian girl running, you know, like, like she's running. Like, you know she's running. And there's like a Tower of Vancouver in the back. And every time I see that on website, I'm like, stop it. I. You're everywhere.

People notice. They really notice. Like, yeah.

And then I was in Italy and I'm like, yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's the same girl. She's. She's selling pasta today.

She's just that good. She can do it all. Just that good. Right?

All right, so. So that was super good. So, like, you know, you're doing all this, like, I call it, like, old school, or, like, you know, business development, like marketing, which you should do. This is the stuff how, like, most of us when we start off our clinics, like, do. But all these, like, all these Gen Z's or millennials, like, they don't want to do this stuff. They want to do the easy stuff. Right? You know?

Yeah, yeah.

Actually, one last thing, One last thing I would do also is if you're working at a clinic right Now, I would 100% on building your personal brand and create, like, content, you know, pump out content, you know, like, you know, all that stuff, like the how to exercises, like, you know, and add some. Make them laugh, you know. But if you build your social. I seen this one guy in our community, like, he had about 10, 15,000 followers, and he did this during, like, going to school at U. Right.

Amazing. Yeah.

So when he, like, so after working somewhere for a year or two, like, he's built up, like, you know, 15,000 Instagram followers. That was the start of him launching his clinic in Mississauga.

Amazing, Right? Super competitive there too. Right. So, yeah.

And building a personal brand, you know.

Right. Yeah. I follow this one mom group, like, sorry, psychotherapist. And everybody knows her. She's the Parent Whisperer. She came out in 2020 on Instagram and now has, like, 3 million followers.

Yeah.

And all she does is little snippets, like just videos and she posts on Instagram and they're all actionable items.

Yeah. So it's like actionable takeaways. Right?

Free time. Like, it's just so great to watch her because, you know, you're always going to get something that you can implement.

Yeah. It's not like, you know, look how awesome my life is. You.

Oh, no. Crap.

You know. Right? This is like, hey, like, do this. And, like, you know you're gonna be happy. Right? It's gonna give you a dopamine outside of just like, pressing, like, the heart button.

Right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So. Oh, my gosh.

I.

And I love that because. Great marketing on her end, too.

Yeah, cool. That is awesome. So, so I think like, so then the other thing you talked about is like once you get this, like, you know, once you get, once you get the patients in the door, you're saying that like one thing, like what they should really work on is making sure that you do treatment planning. Right. So that every single patient that comes in.

In.

Right. Graduates from the plan of care. Right?

Exactly, exactly. That is a huge one. And I think I see that more and more where people are spending tons of money with marketing. I don't have new patients. I only have. It's like, oh, but you had five patients that were new in the last three weeks. What happened to them? Oh, well, they got sick or life happened. Well, shouldn't they have been booked out for this period of time? Because how are they going to get better with one or two appointments anyways? Right. So I find that more and more is like there is almost like we're. Some people are nervous to book out. Like, like, oh, I don't know if I can get my patient to book eight appointments or 10 appointments or whatever they require.

This is a self doubt stuff again, like that's rooted when then started even as a business.

Right. You know, so it's very much so. But I love this piece of advice that someone gave me and they were saying that treat your patients like it was your grandma, your mom, or a family member that you totally, you love. You would want to give them the honest, like honesty and how long it would take them to get better, what it requires, respectful. And if it was your grandma. Grandmas are unfiltered. Like, I don't know about your grandma, but my grandma's like, I need to know and you're lying to me. And this is like they want to know the truth.

Tell me what, tell me what it is. I just want to get better.

Right, Exactly. So, you know, if you treat them like that, you take away that sales aspect that some people have the fear of and you just tell them like, this is the truth, this is what you need. And it's amazing how your mindset, when it shifts, patients take that a little bit better too. They want the guidance. Right?

Yeah, yeah, so, so that's, this is a good point, you know, and so because like, you know, if you don't implement like treatment planning or plan of care, then what I typically see in our community is that like the average patient will actually end up coming to your clinic maybe like four or five times. Right?

Yeah.

Okay. But if you actually do implement it, that number could be between eight to 10 times.

Yes.

So for the same amount of new patients, your revenue could be double, your billables could be double.

Right, Exactly. Yep.

And then, then here's the kicker. If you don't implement it and get it right, that next staff that you hire is also not going to do it.

Oh yeah.

And then, and then you're gonna get super upset.

Yeah.

That when that your next hire, whether it's a fifth year or car says hey, you know, like I need my new patients, my schedule is empty.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you're like putting out. That's like a big fire to put out. I don't even know about that one. But yeah, that's a huge one. So it's, you know, it starts from the top, right. Like you're there, you're making those so called mistakes or trials that you're doing. And a lot of it is that with treatment planning, like, you know, you, you kind of hear those barriers from patients. I can't pay this. Or this happens. And that's sort of where we're here to guide you in many ways too. But when you go through all that yourself and you're bringing on person number two and practitioner number three and four, you can be like, I went through all that and this is how we do it here. And this what is what really works because we get results for our patients and we get our 5 star reviews and then we get a whole bunch of other referrals. It's like it is a cycle. Right. It's a cycling.

I love it. And here's the thing, if you don't do it like you're the next hire is not going to do it too.

They're not going to do it. Why would they? Like you're not, it's like your kids.

You know, mom, you're not eating your vegetables. I'm not getting my vegetables too.

Right, Exactly. It's like it's all action. Like what you do not ver versus what you say. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's super cool. So, so trim and planning. Super important. We talked about the marketing stuff, right? You know, give me your road map of like your sequence of hires. Okay. Like, like think about from zero to a million. Right?

Okay.

Like, and think about like, you know, once again, I know what you did. Like, you know, what would you do differently? Know what you know now, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you know, so think about the roles that you would hire in sequence and, and whether they would be part time and full time. But let's talk about that. Right. So this is one of my favorite questions because everyone has different sequence, right?

Oh yeah, for sure. So the first role that I would have hired right off the bat is front desk stuff. Full time.

Full time. Not even part time, like full time. You would take the risk?

I would do it.

You would take that $4,000 a month of risk?

I would do it. And there's, there's ways around this that I teach my solopreneurs. That you can cut your costume.

Yeah.

And I can share that if you'd like.

So let's talk about why you would hire a part time versus like just cheaping out.

Yeah.

And playing it safe and getting that co op student for 10, you know, you know, I mean for 10 hours a week or, or that person like, you know, like that 15 hours a week. But they're kind of non committal. They're just kind of plugging a hole. Like why part. Why, why would you take the risk and go full time and versus part time?

There's a number of reasons to do that. The first one is, you know, when you're, when you have somebody there full time, your focus is again, business growth and treating your patients, which is the most important thing. When you're first starting out, making sure that your patients are being treated well. Your treatment planning, you're having the time to focus on that. Not that when you, when you hear the phone ring and you don't get it and then you have a patient in the room and you're like, oh my God, I missed that call.

Yeah, that's fine.

I missed another bucks. I missed another call. And then you're hoping to call them at the end of the day, but they've already called another clinic and booked it.

Yeah.

Okay. So that's the first thing. And I know it's a big investment, but there is a huge return on that. And you can see that really quickly. Okay. In addition to that, that person doesn't have to stick to solely the phone role. Like you can give them other things to do. They can help manage, for example, some of your bookkeeping, if you would like to do that. They can help, you know, order product, do, maybe do a little bit of marketing like the posters we talked about, maybe call, you know, like they need a little bit of direction at the beginning, but maybe they call or send out a slew of emails to, you know, these communities. Like the pickleball that you're talking about or like the tennis club or the, you know, they can do a bunch of different Things. So it's not necessarily like, oh, I'm just hiring front desk for the traditional role of front desk.

So if we think back to like you buying like an investment now, right. You know, like a stock. So I'm gonna spend $4,000 on a front desk or $3,000 on the front desk. Right. And I want to get a return on that. Right. You know, so. And part of that is like getting to do on the specific task where it would like more than pay for that.

Right. You know? 100. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love it. And, and here's my thoughts about why. Why like here, here's other reason why I see a lot of owners like make a mistake with higher someone part time and because you spend all this time training them, okay. You train them for six months on how special your clinic is and you got different booking processes, you know, for your, for your clinical staff. Right. You know, this person wants this and that, like everything is different, you know, and.

Yeah.

And then they leave.

Been there. Yeah, been there, been there.

Right?

Oh yeah.

Like, let's not like this is such.

A core robo, right? Yeah. Let's not do that. Because it costs you double and triple to retrain them.

Now if your intent is just to keep a small little150,000 soulprint your practice, like, sure do that. But that's not your intention, then I. This is one of those risks I would agree with you, Andrew, that I would 100 take. Right?

Yeah.

Because I think like a lot of people make that mistake, you know, like, like every single, you know, like that patient, when they leave, you don't have to have that awkward conversation and booking their entire like eight or ten sessions of plan of care. Let that them do it.

Exactly.

And make sure that they do it, you know.

Oh yeah, exactly. And that's what, 15 to 20 minutes of your time perhaps chatting book like you know, upwards. Right. But the thing is like you could have squeezed another patient in there.

Love it. 100.

So, yeah.

Or getting that Google review. Right. Or answering that phone call. Right. You know, or like, you know, maybe in between they're in these Facebook groups adding value. Find out what type of content to create, you know, for your, like your next Google business profile, you know, so love it.

And people love diversity in their role. Right. So you don't have to stick to that traditional. Like this is the person that's going to answer my phone calls.

Yeah.

Well, no, there's other things that can be done that are. And they might be more connected to the community. Than you are. That's great.

Yeah.

Cool.

What, what would the second role be?

Oh, okay, so my second role, I would. So I'm a chiropractor by trade and I would hire an rmt.

Okay, you would hire RMT versus a physio.

Yes.

Okay. Just to pay the rent, Right. Is that why?

Just to. What's right?

Just to pay the rent. Is that why. To offset the rent.

You know what? I find the influx of patients and referrals at the beginning stages, it's a little bit. It's easier to bring in traffic.

Okay. Yes. They're a great lead gen, right?

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I love it. So full time. I'm assuming, like, let's assume you get them full time. Right.

You know, I would, I would. And, and the reason I don't like part time for that role either is if you're working at two different places, you're kind of competing in terms of, you know, patients, but also like, is that person going to leave? And then again, that whole patient base you built might be going with them. Yeah.

Which is the reason why you start. That's how you started your business, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

So this thing is clear. Like, I hate hiring part time therapists. I would rather not hire them because if I must spend all this time to build a personal brand, make them visible and get them traffic and build up their caseload, I don't want to lose that, you know, straight up.

So, no, I think that was a big learning point for me. From Accelerator, from being a member, to be honest.

Yeah. Cool. Cool. So one full time RMT, right. You know, and then what's next?

PT100 physio. Yep.

So in this case is if you're, if you're a pt, you will hire another pt. If you're a pt, you would hire a Cairo or you hire pt.

No, I would hire opposite. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And why would you do this versus hiring another Cairo? Since you're a Tyra.

Yeah. So you want to have. If your vision is to have multidisciplinary or interdisciplinary.

Yeah.

You need to. They, they're likely going to want to see different professionals who have different expertise.

Yeah.

And what's the neat thing about all this is you get to do it in one spot. So then you get to see the results that the patient have. The end of it. Because, hey, they might come to see me 10 times and be like. And then I'll say, you know what, you actually need to go see. So. And so they're just literally down the hallway and then we'll discuss notes and we'll make sure that we're on the right page. So you're, you know, they know what you're, what you're going in for. And at the end you actually get to see them graduate. And you're building your practice like you're building a team around it. Right. So I think it's, I think it's just the greater vision you had. For me, it was like I saw my, I saw a patient and then they're like, oh, we're not really getting better and I didn't have any other staff at that time. And I'm gonna go see the physio or the chiro or sorry, the massage down the street. I would never hear from them, so I never even knew if they got better or not. And then you're like, well, this is kind of weird. I can't really get notes from the physio. They're not answering the phone. The RMT is like so and so busy. Like there's just too much happening in people's day to day. But if it's one spot, why not?

This is, I love that. And let's be honest, like even from a Google standpoint, like if you get chiropractor, like and you build out on your website and also your Google business profile, that's another like search term. Like that sucks. Like that's just traffic that you wouldn't get because there are like equally as much people searching for chiropractor and like physiotherapy. So like they're calling in for different stuff, you know. Right, yeah, same thing.

Massage.

So now think about your website. Your website all of a sudden has. You may be a chiropractor, all of a sudden you got a massage therapy page. So you're going to drive massage therapy traffic, you know, from your city. Now you do a chiropractor. These are all separate like traffic terms, you know. Right. That will come to your site for.

Insurance billing if we want to come to break down to that. Well, Most people have three different sets of insurance for three business.

A thousand bucks for 500 for physio, 500 for chiro, 500 massage, you know? Right. You know. Right. And zero for OT. Right. Oh, hey, what about what percent of cross referrals were you seeing between, like at your practice when you left? Was it like, would you say that at leave like what percent do you think a new patient come in would actually get at least one additional service? Like 50, 20, 80?

No, it was like 90 something.

Okay. Yeah. That's another reason. Right.

Easily, like. And you know what the secret to that was? We actually ended up doing this cool little passport activity between each other, and we actually had to do trades amongst the practitioners twice. You got to know the person personally that you had never seen before and maybe just had a coffee with in the staff room, and you got to feel how their treatment was months.

Okay.

And so what ended up happening was you built better relationships within your team.

Yeah.

And then when I was like, I want to refer to Nick, your patient's like, oh, why would you refer to your. The rmt? Oh, I've been treated by him for this too. And I know he's really good because I've had that experience.

Yes.

How much does that say? Like, that's volumes.

So you're forcing. You're forcing. Like, you're like, instead of you doing clinical training, like, you're doing, like, you're getting into experience, like, actually from that practitioner. So that trust gets developed by them, you know, through your. Sorry, you call it your passport.

We call it a. We called it a passport project. So we made little passports, real, like pretend. Real ones look like real ones. And then.

And they have to go stamp every practitioner that they want to go see. And the very end, like, they're. They get some type of, like, prize at the end.

Then whoever had the most had, you know, like a gift card or what? We kind of did like a ranking. And then we also had them train at front desk because we wanted them to experience what a front desk experience would be like, because a lot of them would say, oh, well, front desk doesn't really. Maybe they wouldn't value them as much, but if they had a training with them, you'd be like, holy crap. They doing. They're doing so much.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

So I have a whole level of respect now, right?

Exactly, Exactly. And front desk is like, you want them to be involved. You want them to experience the care. They're the ones that are funneling these people. Right?

Yeah. Wow.

Even when they. Even when someone calls, like, oh, you know, you should like, I want to see the physio. Do you know anything about them? And if the front desk hasn't even seen them as a patient, I mean, you're forcing.

You're forcing. Yeah, I like this. This is quite good, you know? Yeah. Wow. 90% cross referrals, man. Gez. I think most.

It was high.

If they do 50%, they'll be, like, happy, you know, so.

Oh, no, it was like, we Were everyone knew, like, oh, well, oh, you're not being able to see me today. But that person and, like, that person, it's like we were a team, like, built.

Here's the thing. I've seen so much P and Ls over the years. Right. Like, thousands. Right. You know, my favorite P and Ls are the ones that have, like, you know, like 3,000 in revenue. A thousand of that is physio, a thousand is Cairo, and a thousand is, like, massage. And like, the PNLs just look very beautiful. And it's also very balanced and diversified, you know.

Oh, yeah, yeah. You want that, right? Like, ultimately, you're building a team.

Yeah, yeah.

Right. So in a team, everybody has their strong, strong aspects.

All right, so what would your fourth hire be? I. Outside. Outside of, like, more therapists and more staff. Right. Like, like within your work structure, like, who would you hire next?

Oh, okay. Okay.

Like, would you hire, like, a clinic director? Like an office manager? Would you hire a marketing coordinator? Like, I hired clinical lead. Right.

Clinic manager.

Okay.

Yeah. So. So they were responsible for.

Like, an office manager. Like.

Yeah. An office. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So I think in our world, we call a patient experience manager, but office manager, like, they run the front desk. Right.

You know, so they run the front.

Desk and your fires. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also even things like, you know, once they get better acquainted with their job, because a lot of these people are so good at picking up things after a certain period of time and training, it's like their job can evolve. So, for example, my clinic manager, office manager was then setting our. Looking at our scoreboard, and there was portions of it that she was responsible.

Yeah.

For and to hit certain targets. So she would be motivating her team.

Yeah.

And allowing to happen and. And having her own meeting rift. Like, you're giving them autonomy, but they're also evolving their role, which a lot of these office managers want. They don't want to just be, like, doing one thing. Right.

So I guess this office manager, you could start them off with part time. Right. You know, because they're kind of in your role already. Right. Or you jump them to full time.

Yeah, yeah. Like, I would say you can definitely start with part time because you have someone there full time as well. But they. You would. You would start to see that they quickly evolve into several different. Like, there's several different jobs that you can give them. Or, like, she. And she actually ended up being our culture officer as well.

Love it. Yeah.

So she had two roles, and she loved it like she was planning every quarter what we would do as a team.

She's getting passport stamps done, you know.

Yes.

All right, so you got the office manager. Ideally you do full time. And then. And then what will be Next?

Culture. Culture, culture 100. When you're at that size, like, you want loyalty, how do you get loyalty is getting to know each other better and developing strong culture.

What about clinical lead or clinic director? Like, the owner will keep on doing that or you will pass it off.

I think at three practitioners, like, it's pretty reasonable to kind of be. You're still okay to be in that role, but I feel like at number five is when you want to start hitting a clinic. Like getting a clinic lead, I would say clinical lead.

You know, test them to be in that role to see whether they could actually do it before you give them the title. Because once you give them the title, it's hard to strip it away from them without upsetting their ego, right?

Oh, for sure. Yeah. That is, like, one of the hardest things to do. And you don't want to lose them either, right?

Yeah. Because they're usually your biggest biller. Right. Your biggest builder is your clinical lead. And they. To be like, whatever. And then, like, you're like, you. You're really in. Is like, you know, like.

Yeah, yeah. It's so hard to take it away. Right. So you. Yeah. Like, you kind of post like, we posted the role internally. We had a slack. We had slack within our team as well.

Yeah.

That was a really good communication tool because again, as an owner, you know, if you're hoping to hire someone, you also want that to be a little bit known in the clinic. You don't want to bring somebody on and surprise the rest of your team. Like, oh, by the way, now it's like, what? You never told me that. And we found you never invited me.

Like, how come I was invited to the dance, you know?

Exactly. Oh, I had somebody that I could have referred. Well, you never said anything for, like, three years, so.

So you get a clinical lead. Okay. And then. And then I know you had a clinic director. Would you still get a clinic director? Or you just stay, or you just. You're happy with a clinical lead?

I think, you know, a clinic director is a great role to have because eventually with most people, you want to be strong enough as a team that you can step away and you can say, this is a true entity running on its own. I don't need to be there as the owner 24 7. That's what my Clinic director. Is there, Is there? Right. That is what people are looking for when they want to buy a clinic too. It is independent of the owner.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And is that, Is that one of the. Was that one of the main reasons why, when you sold your business, having that clinic director, like, was like why you got the valuation that you got?

Yeah, I had three offers on the table.

Yeah.

Strong offers. And it was because it was the person that ended up buying it was like, I don't really technically need to treat and like, I. It's independent, it's running.

Yeah. Because the clinic is running by itself. Right. You know, including management. Right.

Yeah.

Which is not Manju in this case. Right. You know, because she called a clinic director, you know, you know, doing it. And then the person that's buying is just looking at as like an investment. Now if I put $1, is it going to make me $3 like in three years? Right. Or is it gonna just make me a dollar, you know? Right. You know. Right.

So like she was able to. She had I think a three month old at that point.

Yeah.

And she had another baby eight months after she bought it. And she's still like, I'm going strong because everybody, every. All the process and systems are in place.

Wow, that's awesome. That's interesting with your sequence of hires. Right. You know, 100%.

That's cool.

It's kind of cool when you like do this journey from the beginning to like to your exit.

Right.

You know? Right.

Well, one thing I'll add, like just a little tidbit. I was a part of Call Hero during COVID Yeah. And that was a game changer for me because I was working, working from home and managing, looking at metrics and all this kind of stuff. And the pivot, pivoting point for me besides that, because that was huge, huge value was that I had. I couldn't be in the clinic because of COVID Like there were certain restrictions that we had. Right. And we ended up hiring three psychotherapists virtually that were killing it. They were like, I never even thought that was like a thing I could do. It was so out of the box.

Yeah.

And I hired. We were in Lindsay, Ontario. You can't find a psychotherapist in Lindsay, Ontario. Everybody has like a one year waitlist. My recruitment was all Toronto.

Yeah. Oh, that's genius. You're recruiting out of Toronto, which is a flood of them. They work like remote, you know. Right.

And these guys came in and it was like, I'm like, I could have Five, ten of these. Like, you know, people are just used to that. There may be the odd person here and there. I want to in person, but it was Covid. So people got used to that concept. Right. But call hero was the reason that changed because I'm like, oh my gosh, all these people. And like people's mental health was quite different at that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was a necessary add on and I didn't even need space to do it.

Yeah, yeah. I love it. Yeah. And that's the really. So let's go back to your sequence of hires. Would you, like, when would you bring those psychotherapists to do online? Because it doesn't take square footage. Right. If you're going to go that path.

I would do it right away.

You would do it when? Like after the rmt? Probably.

Probably after I hired an rmt. Yeah.

Okay, so you would do it after the RMT or after that. That the PT or, or. Because it's so much work, you probably need an office manager because there's a lot of men involved. Right.

You do need like if. So I would do it between the rm, after the rmt, between the PT and the cycle. Like, I would do it kind of simultaneously. Yeah.

Okay.

Right. You can kind of put those both up and then you have a full time person and at that point you have two practitioners. So there is enough that, you know, you can, you can, you can, they can work with.

I guess I'm just gonna say, like, that is brilliant what you did. You actually went to service the rear areas, which there is no. Where there is no, like, there's no like service like in the rural areas. Right. But you recruited from like the gta, which is there's like tons of like, you know, your, your, your recruitment pool is just massive. Right. And you just build this remote business around that. Right. You know, so.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, I think one of ours was from Windsor.

Yeah. Wow.

Complete opposite end.

Yeah.

My God, they were crazy. Bitsy crazy. Yeah.

Okay, cool. That is. That's super awesome. Super cool, sir. Oh, wow. We gotta, we gotta end this. This is, this is getting really juicy. All right, last question. Manju.

Yeah.

If you had $11,000. Okay.

Oh my gosh.

You have $1,000. Like, and you have to spend in this month. That will give. That will help you generate like more sales next month. Right? Like what, what would you, what would you tell a sole preneur or startup to do? How, how would they spend the thousand dollars?

Okay, let me think, let me think. If I had $1,000 and I was a solopreneur. What would I do? I would. Oh my gosh, that's a hard one. I would probably. Oh, God. Honestly, like, I would hire a coach. I don't know.

Okay.

I would do that. Like, I would. I think five years of my. Of like what I went through and the hardships. And you. If you get somebody that can mentor you, it's worth every single dollar in penny. And I know a thousand dollars is not enough. I get that. But it is such a guiding light to have somebody just be like, do this and don't do this. And like, this is what's good, this is what's not good. And like support you and be like, build that confidence and give it to you. The other thing I was going to say is to be a little bit more product focused. I would probably say we did really well with Google Ads, the big one.

Yeah, I know Google Ads and brewer arrow part do better than in an urban area when it's.

Well, that's the thing. Right. So like specific to, to the practice. I think those were big things, but I can't put a dollar value on, on coaching and community. I think that's just. You just.

I think it's speed. Right. You know, like you want to get there in three years. Like you want to get to half a million three years or you will get there in 10.

Right. You know, it's also. It also shows you the possibility that there is so much out there and people are doing such big things and sometimes never dreamt that to be possible. When you graduate school, you're very limited in your beliefs and then all of a sudden you're seeing these people in the community. You're like, what the heck? People have 20 people and they have this practice and they're doing this. It's like I never even seen or met these kind of people before. Right. And I think there's just so much value to having that hope.

Yeah, I love that. Wow. That was insane. I really enjoyed this chat with you, Manju. It's been a while, but I really enjoyed it, you know, like, I know you're one of our business coaches in clinic. I serve. But how do people find out more about you? Like, can you find you up like on Instagram or anything or, or.

Well, you know what? So I took a digital detox for a year, but now I gotta get back at it. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. They will be able to do that. Yeah. I'm just like, you know, it's been a. It's been a wild ride. But I'm so excited to be back and just, you know, share my share my wins and share my experience. So I really appreciate having.

Awesome. Cool.

But they can find me on my calendar like office hour. What? I'm on office hours. Yeah.

Or you could email manju@manjuanticacello.com yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Definitely. Yeah, definitely. More than happy to help.

Amazing. So thanks for your time and it was super awesome chatting with you, you know. And so yeah, we'll see everyone next week on next week's episode of the Clinic Boss Show.

So thank you so much.

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