Why You Shouldn’t Franchise Your Business with Dr. Nona Djavid

The founder of Brain Balance in the States and he's doing some other things, but he sold his franchise and he told me the same exact thing. He was like, I wouldn't do the franchise model, but the role, the roll up model with an exit strategy has been super popular in, in the States.

How to get smarter in business and in life. This is the question and I'm on a journey to get you that answer. I'm going to interview the world's top entrepreneurs and deconst winning secrets. Going to talk about everything from marketing money and living a bucket list life. I'm Rick Lau, healthcare entrepreneur. I grew and exited my 127 locations in my 30s. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. We are live, everyone. Welcome to the Clinic Boss show. I'm Rick Lau and I'm your host. I grew and exited 127 locations and now I'm on this amazing journey to meet all these like amazing healthcare entrepreneurs in the world on how to be smarter in business and in life, you know, and so today we got a super special guest. We got Nona here. And yeah, and, and the reason I, I reach out to Nona was like, Nona is like, she appears on my Instagram feed all the time. All my followers follow and, and it's just like they're in her content. It's so good. And I just, I just want to thank you for coming to the show.

Right, yes, thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah. And, and are you filming with my story, Nona, or not really.

Not your story, but I like stalked you a bit on Instagram. So I is like clinic owners and you are, you also kind of talk about freedom and you know.

Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. So maybe I could do a quick little share and then you have a bit of like insight, you know. And so I, I'm actually not a physical therapist or a healthcare professional. Like my, my, my educational background is actually engineering. Right.

Okay.

So. But all my best friends, right, are physiotherapists. And so when I finished school I somehow got into the business of buying physiotherapy clinics, right. With my physiotherapist friends. And we, you know, we bought one practice, we did really well and then we bought a few more. And back in the olden days it was amazing. It was so cheap buying clinics, right. You know, people didn't want to own clinics, right. And then we got to about 120, so we got about 27 clinics and we're like, oh my God, like what do you want to do when we grow up, you know, and. And you were in our, like, early 30s, like, ego, just like, we want to rule the world. It was the stupidest thing, you know, and so we raised a boatload of money, right? So we, like, acquired, like, 127 locations across the country, 1400 employees. And then we're like, what the. Did we. What do we have here?

Did you roll about. Roll them up into one?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And now that actually company is owned by the largest grocery chain in Canada, you know, who also owns a largest pharmacy chain. Okay. And so it's just like some crazy disruption that's kind of going on within the industry. And then over the years, I have spun off a lot of different type of businesses to support clinic owners. And then I just keep on getting, like, the knock on the door people saying, hey, do you do a business coaching? I'm like, I do not do business coaching. I don't. I don't like being a psychologist to, like, everyone and deal with, like, there's other people that are really good at. I'm not that guy, you know, But I keep on get. I keep on going at it. And then I was like, oh, hey, if I could build a business where I could create a community and scale, like, coaching without doing coaching, then I would consider it, you know? And so. And so that's kind of like where we're at today. So I have a company called Clinic Excel. We go to. We have a community of over, like, a thousand, like, members. And. And like. And, yeah, it's about, you know, like, all the, you know, it's a community for, like, you know, to grow your business, blah, blah, blah, all that other stuff.

Yeah, that's awesome. I can't believe I thought you were, like, a physio or Cairo or something like that.

Okay, well, most. Most people think so. I can speak that language.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know what you did? You quantum leaped.

Did I? Okay.

From engineering to owning the clinic, like, how many people do that, first of all? So, like, to the bravery that it takes to do that, the risk that it takes to do that, to go outside box, you know, and over and over again. And now you're traveling the world with your family. Like, that's a very minute percentage of the population that get to do that.

Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So. So what? Ex. So you said, that's quantum leaping. So what exactly is that, then?

What's a quantum leap?

Yeah, yeah. In the simplest way. So that a simple guy like me that could understand that doesn't have. That doesn't have a, you know, like a. Like a very medical.

No, it's not actually background. It's actually super simple. So like a quantum leap as you go in physics. What it is, is when an electron jumps to the next layer of energy. Right. And you. And you would think that, okay, I'm in this timeline. Like, I. I live this particular life right here, and if I just do all the same things I'm doing, I'm gonna. There's the. The end result is pretty predictable. So if you were to jump into another timeline, like, say you're in the timeline for engineering and you stayed there, well, the end result was pretty predictable. What do most engineers do? You know, depending on your field or whatever, at best you would be over here. At worst, you'd be over here. But if you jump timelines into this other identity of, oh, I'm a clinic owner and Now I own 100 and some clinics and whatever, now I have an exit strategy. Now it's. So that's jumping timelines. But the cool thing about this whole thing is that a quantum leap in physics does not require more work. It just requires a different kind of energy, a different identity or a different energy.

So every time I start up a new business, is that a quantum leap then?

It. It actually. It can be. Right? It can be. So you've probably been practicing these universal principles, quantum leaps, principles, without knowing it.

Okay. Wow. Geez. And. And I actually want you to share maybe a bit of, like, the story that you shared with me and how you got into the profession of chiropractics and what you do now.

Yeah. So, well, let me begin. Back in the day. Now. I'm kidding. I won't go too far back, but basically I went to chiropractic school. I graduated, and I was like, I am going to make it like I'm going to have a successful practice. And obviously I'm in my early 20s. I had no idea what the heck I was doing. So I go, all right, what's the fastest way to get somewhere is, let's get some mentorship. So I hired coaches and mentors and practice management groups, and they sort of would give me this. This box or a set of systems or mechanics of running a successful practice. They go, these are the elements that it takes in order for you to build a successful practice. And I said, yes, thank you. I took the box and I literally just became their A plus student. Like, I just. Every script, every system, every. Every the strategy, I did not sway one bit. I Just implemented because I didn't know anything different. Anyways, right? So I put it all into my business, and it was extremely successful. I was. I was already sort of driven anyways, type a entrepreneurial personality to begin with. So it. It blew up. Like, that practice was really massively successful. However, I started to burn out. I started burning up because I became a slave to my clinic, which I think a lot of people relate to. Right? Like, okay, you have all the success, you have all this money, you have the family, you have all the things, the check boxes, right? And I remember feeling like, oh, my gosh, like, this is ridiculous. I have all the things you're supposed to have in life. And I am completely unhappy with my life. Like, I feel unfulfilled. I was tired. I almost got out of the profession. I was like, let me do something totally different. And I would go to my coaches, and my coaches would be like, just go back to the systems and fine tune the systems. And I go, no, it's not the systems. They're working. It's something else. And I remember, Rick, I went to a therapist. I was like, maybe I need therapy. So I go to a therapist and, you know, they ask you the question. They're like, so what brings you here today? And I go through all the different categories of my life. You know, at the time, I was married. I go, here's my marriage. Here's my business.

Your childhood wounds. Right. You know? Right.

I didn't even get there. This is session one. I'm just covering, like, the basics in my current life. And it was. It was the weirdest experience because as I'm describing it to her, I'm thinking, this is like, this is a really good life I'm having.

Yeah.

And. And I felt kind of guilty explaining all of that because obviously there are so many more people who have way more painful lives than I do. And she mirrored that back to me, and she basically told me to go home and be grateful. And the challenge for me there was. And that was a big moment for me because the challenge was I was grateful, but I was unhappy. Like, I was truly unhappy. And here I was, paid somebody, a paid professional, to tell me to go home and settle, basically. And as I went through that, those dark moments, I realized, okay, there's got to be an easier way to do things. Like, I don't want to be a slave to my clinic. I don't want my clinic to be personality based. I don't want my clinic where, like, every time I hire somebody, the numbers go Down. I didn't want to just be, you know, like I'm afraid I have anxiety, like going, I wanted to go to Barcelona for a month. It was like, I have so much anxiety because what's going to happen in my clinic? Even though I had a gem of an associate at the time, so didn't want to experience any of those, I wanted more freedom, I wanted more ease in life. And as I was going through those dark moments, I realized that there was a possibility to do things better, that there was possibility for more ease. And I started to jot down and sort of dream a little bit of what might be possible and at the time and where I was and who I was surrounded with. And maybe even in, in all of my profession, nobody had done the things that I wrote down that I wanted to do. So I had written down like 20 hours a week whether I have an associate or if I'm the sole doctor in the practice. If I have an associate, I don't want to be in the practice, but I want the associate to work in 20 hours a week. I want to generate a million dollars or more and I want to do it in cash because at the time I was taking insurance also. So I go, I want to be part time, million dollar cash and I wanna travel with my kids. I want to have freedom to leave and, and not this attachment, this slavery, relationship with my practice. I want it to be a place of joy. And so I did all. And I wanted to be happy, I wanted to be joyful and all of those things. So I started a dream and I took myself through this process where I, you know, and I, I teach this inside of my community, inside of Elevate Club. But I basically went through and I created a life vision for myself.

Like, sorry, life vision? Is that what you said?

Okay, yeah, I call it and now I call it an elevated life vision which is basically a script of your next life. Right. So you know, when you were as an engineer, your background, right. So if you to have to get to where you got to with all of these clinics, maybe you didn't like write it down. One day I'm gonna own, you know, maybe you did. I don't know.

I did not. I did not.

But it was probably somewhere in there there was probably some and maybe not that big of a vision, but like some. The next level of it was like, oh, well, when we acquire this business, here's what it's going to look like. You, you were craving more freedom.

This sounds very interesting because I do a very Similar thing called like a five year painted picture. Like, you know, and I'm painting, I'm writing my, like what my day would look like five years from now, right?

Yeah.

From the moment I wake up to me going bed.

Yeah.

And I still remember that because I'm doing that right now with my daughter and my wife in Italy, right? Where I'm feeling super fulfilled with still, like running my business, being like a Nomad CEO, but still traveling, you know, and just checking off all the bucket list stuff. Like professionally. Sorry, personally. But professionally, like, I'm still checking the stuff off too because like, you know, the business is like taking off and like, it's just like. So it's just like. And when I look at that piece of paper, I shared it with my wife, you know, and she was like, wow. You know, I actually, actually made her like cry. You know, I actually, on that five year painted picture, I actually even talked about my death. Right. And how I want to be remembered. Like what happens at the funeral. Right. So is that a very similar exercise that you're talking about?

Funny, because when you and I started to talk, Rick, I was like, I guarantee we're, we're very similar, but we speak different languages. So. And I don't mean like, you know, English, I speak Chinese, Canadian. I mean like. Okay, so what you are describing. So part of the elevated life vision and I walk people through this process is, you know, there's criteria that go in there. Part of it is called a day in a life, which is exactly what you said. Like, what does a day in a life of me look like of my next version look like? And so you write it all out and that's exactly what I did. So in as I walked a day in a life, and you, you incorporate emotions. Why did your wife get emotional and cry? Because it elicited emotions in her and she's living that life that you described. Right. So it has.

I was talking about my death, you know, and. And how I want to be remembered, you know, and. And what people would say.

I mean, I think there is value in, you know, like knowing your becoming face to face with your mortality. Because if you knew that you only have one life to live and this is it, you do so much more.

Yeah.

So, yes, I went through that process of the elevated life vision and I was able to create a practice that was part time, million dollar. And it actually ended up being a practice that I could leave, have absolute freedom. I created a weight loss company that then took virtual. We had three locations. So, like all these other side businesses were able to pop up as a result of that. And then the. Just like you. The life that I live right now, like, I live between Italy and Southern California. I have, I'm able to travel with my kids. I have so much freedom. I set everything up exactly the way that I want to experience life. And sometimes I have to pause and be like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I wrote about this, like, three years ago, Two years ago. A year ago.

Wow, that's super cool. You know, but, but, but you know what? Like, I think it's easier to say it when you are successful, but when you are like in the grind and hustling and starting off.

Yeah.

And like, you just took a. But you took a bunch of money out. You know, you got this lease. Everything's way more expensive now. Inflation, the. The recessions, like, all. Everything that's going on that's all messed up with, like, the news and current events now. Like, how can you get to that space?

Yeah, I, I haven't.

When you're hustling, you know, and then you got kids and family, you know, and then, you know, like, it's just like, whoa.

That's the thing is, I think it. You really only have like, one choice in life, which is where your intention and your focus goes. Right. When I first started my business, it was 2008, so the economy in the US had completely crashed. So if I were to listen to the news and if I were to, I mean, businesses around me, including chiropractic, they were all shutting down. Like the, Everything was just, you know, it was like the worst, actually. It was the worst time to start a business. But if I focused on that and if I subscribe to the idea that it's really hard and that it's. It will be impossible. It's gonna, you know, the business. I'm sorry, the news and the economy and blah, blah. If I focused on that, then I wouldn't be where I'm at today. Except I. I started to focus or subscribe to the thought process that, you know what, I can make this happen, you know, ha. Sort of having faith in myself or having certainty in myself, and that if I do fail, that's okay too. I will learn and I'll pick myself back up and I'll do it again or I'll do it differently. So I think the focus is also important because how many people do we meet where, you know, they focus on the thing that's wrong? When there's like 99 other percent other things that are going on in their life that are beautiful and they should be grateful for.

Yeah. And just look at Covet as example. Remember when Covid happened?

Yeah.

It can't get harder than that. You know, when your business shuts down for, like, what, nine months or six, like, on and off, like, depending what state you're in. Right. Like, it goes on and off, on and off. Fire, employee hire employee. You know, open door, closed door. Right. It cannot be harder than that. And, like, I know so many practice owners, whether it's a physical therapist or chiropractor who started a clinic during COVID Right?

Oh, yeah.

And, like, they're doing millions now. Right. And so it's kind of like what you're talking about. Like, I think, like, you know, like, I think in times of adversity, it challenges, I hate to say survival of the fittest. Right. But it does challenge people to, like, step up their game. And, like, if you don't step up your game, then I think you will, like, just kind of, like, you'll be a consequence of, like, what all the masses do. Right. You know, like, you flow with the economy. So if the GDP goes down, you're gonna go down gdp. You're gonna blame the news, you're gonna blame the recession, inflation. But then, like, you know, there's a 20 of clinics, like, insider community who are crushing it. You know, they're not. They're not growing at GDP.

Right, right.

They're like. They're growing, like, 20, 30 a year consistently. And they did really well during COVID But. And they're. And they're almost ashamed of it. Right.

Yeah. Is that interesting? But that's. That goes, like. Exactly. It goes to those people who. I have a saying. I used to say, and I. Hopefully this won't be taken the wrong way, but it's like, how you did covet is how you do everything, you know, which is like, okay, you saw Covid and then. Did you see opportunity? Did you see pivot? Did you see, I'm gonna do things differently and better? I'm gonna take things virtual or I'm gonna. Here's how I'm gonna grow. Or I'm gonna maybe do a different business? Or did you see Covid and go, oh, my gosh, Covid, I'm doomed. Right? Where was your focus?

Yeah, that's a good point. You know? Yeah, I. I could see. I could see personally, like, you know, since COVID our business part, like, doubled. Right?

Same.

And. And when I reflect at it, like, I remember that moment, I was like, oh, my gosh.

Like, it's.

It's a scary time, you know, but then when I looked at it, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is like my. This is like my, like, second, like, recession that I've actually survived, you know, Actually, no, it was my third, like, third, like, crazy, like, call it recession, depression. And. And every single time I get out of it, you know? Right. And then I'm. And I'm. And I'm seeking, like, okay, what opportunities are here? Right. You know, where do I focus my energy, you know, to work on the things that really matter, you know, and then when times, like, get overwhelmed, like, my therapist tells me all the time, like, when you're overwhelmed, like, and you get super stressed out, you could just focus on what you could control all the other stuff. Don't worry about it, because you can't change it.

Exactly.

But what can you control?

So that's exactly it. Where's your focus? What can you do?

Wow. Geez, that's awesome. You know, like, so right now, you know, like, I was checking. Sorry, earlier, I was checking on your Instagram, you know, and, and, and you talk a lot about, like, you know, forget the how, right?

Yeah. And.

And it's. It's about, like, starting with, like, maybe the why and the vision, you know, can you talk a little more about that?

Yeah. And. And I think that when you first hear that, you go, oh, well, how do I. If I say I have this vision and I forget about the how, then? Because my previous identity as a business owner who was type A personality, super driven hustle, you know, all the things would have been like, that's total bs because how can you forget about the how? The how is like, the mechanics, the strategy, like, all the things you're supposed to be doing to get you there. But it's a completely different mind shift where. And this, actually I learned from Bob Proctor and a lot of other spiritual and, you know, coaches and mentors of mine speak to this, which is also, I think, okay, so the idea is, if you have a big vision for your life, for your practice, for your clinic, for, you know, for your business, if you have a big vision, like you have some numbers you want to hit, you have a certain number of people you want to help or have a certain kind of impact, the way you want to provide for your family, your lifestyle, what you want to experience in life, say you have all of that, okay. And it seems way beyond where you are. Like, your timeline is here, and this vision is Way over here. Well, if that's the case, then the, the thinking that you have right now can only use the timeline that you're in, right? Like, so I think this way and these are my thoughts and my emotions right now as this version right here. So I can really only create this kind of life. Like my results, my end results are absolutely predictable. However, this life that I want is going to require a completely, wildly different kind of thinking. A wildly different kind of emotions and thoughts and belief systems. Right? So if I go into the how with this big vision, I'm looking at it from the timeline I'm in and there's no way I can make that happen because obviously I'm not there yet, right? So this thing is so deep, by the way.

This is like, this is like physics.

Well, a little bit like multi dimensional.

Like it was that quantum, like quantum leaping stuff you're talking about earlier, right?

Yes, I know. That's why when we started this conversation, I was like, are you prepared to meet me?

Oh, no. You know what, I love these type of conversations. Right, so.

Yeah, I know you do. You are using them whether you know or not. These are universal laws. So when I say forget the how, is if you have a big vision, and this has been your vision, it's been on your heart for a while. Then if you, you only need to know two things. You only need to know that you are capable of it, right? That you can, you can, you're capable of it. You don't need to know how to do it. And you also need to know that you are willing to do what it takes. Okay, so if I'm capable of it, by the way, some of you are like, my vision is really big. Like, I don't even know if I'm capable of it. That's fine. Is there anybody in the world that can do. Is there another human that can accomplish that vision? If the answer is yes, then you can do it too. Also. If that vision is yours and it's on your heart, then it's, it's been assigned to you. Like that's your vision. You gotta go for it. So are you capable of it? If the answer is yes, then great. Are you willing to do what it takes? And if the answer is yes, then don't worry about the how. Because the more you tap into that vision, like the frequency of that vision, you. The more you research it, the more you learn about it. Surround yourself with people that have had that vision or are doing it. Guess what? The how will start to appear like you don't have to come up with, oh, here's a to do list to get to here. You can. But that most likely will. Will create incremental growth and not a quantum leap.

This is that movie like the secrets, like the law of attractions, right?

It's a little bit. Yes, that's all. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's a universal truth too, right?

Yeah. Because I was thinking about, you know, like when you think about something, you know, like I think one day I was looking at a, like a white truck or a black truck, and the next thing I know I saw like white and black trucks everywhere.

Exactly.

It's just like your consciousness is just more aware of like what's in front of you, right?

Yes. And there's more research that actually proves that that's not a woo woo type of thing or reticular activating system in your brain actually is able to pick up the things that you are telling your subconscious mind.

Yeah. You know, this stuff that you talk about is like, it's a completely different. This is like wavelength. I mean like, I'm completely opposite. I'm always about like the how. Like, here is the checklist, here is the to do's, you know, like, and if you look at my content, like it's all about here is the secret, here's the how to. Right. You know, and then here's another how to. Here's your playbook. Just go do it. Right.

Yeah, yeah. But to some degree, I mean, you, you are a dreamer. I know that about you in the first like two minutes of our conversation. Right. Like, you are a dreamer. So you have a dream maybe. And, and you obviously wrote some pieces of it down five years from now, you know, your vision or day in a life of. So the how also comes to you because you tap into the big dream or the big vision you have for your life. So you're able to access the how because you have your solid on your dream. You're crystal clear. But most people, what do they do? They don't know where they're going. They don't have crystal clear vision of where they're going. So the house that they come up with is at the level, at the frequency that they're at right now. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So you know, like, so you work with a lot of chiropractors, you know, and, and I think you talked about this earlier. Like, you know, the ideal situation is they work 20 hours a week and they're billing a million dollars. Right. You know, that sounds good, but is, is that Is that possible? Like, no, I mean.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I have chiropractors in my, in my mastermind that are doing this. But let me, let me clarify that. That's not the ideal. The ideal is what fits your lifestyle. That was ideal at the time for me. It's not ideal for me right now. What's ideal for me right now is have multiple different businesses that generate passive income and give me the freedom to live the lifestyle I want. But at the time, that was the dream, that was the vision. So is it possible? Yes, absolutely. It's been a, it's been a beautiful journey to watch so many of you, my mastermind members, be able to tap into that because it resonates with them and they want to do that and they have built million dollar practices and barely working. I have one clinic who is working. You're not going to believe this. One week out of the month, she pivoted her entire business model. She only sees patients one week out of the month. She's a solo doc, doesn't even have associate and sorry.

And she's billing a million where she only treats like four times a month. Is that what you're saying?

She is only. No, she's only working one with like first week of every month. That's the only week she sees patients. She takes off three weeks out of the month. And the way she does that, she happens to be. And I don't know if your audience would be familiar with this, but she's an upper cervical chiropractor, so not the kind of chiropractor that would. They go, oh, you have to come in three times a week for the rest of your life. They go, oh, you come in once, you hold your adjustments for three, four weeks. So she's like, why don't I systematize this? And why don't I just see everyone the first week of every month and just.

Yeah.

And so she packs it up. Now she has the option of seeing patients the rest of the the month. But she's been snorkeling and going and, you know, traveling and doing all the things that she would like, she has been wanting to do. So anything is possible as long as you have the right mechanics, like what you teach, which is like, here's how you do it, here's the mechanics of it and the right energetics behind it. Because you can give all the how to's and all the playbooks to somebody who's stuck in a state of scarcity. Do you think that they're gonna do something with it. Most likely they won't. Most likely they won't. And if they do, they're, they're pushing the boulder up the hill. They're not doing it with ease.

And how, how can they get over that mindset?

I think awareness is, is always going to be the first step is like having awareness around the fact that you know what I'm, I am either I'm procrastinating on what, how Rick, what Rick is telling me to do, or even if I'm not procrastinate, I keep doing all of these things and I feel so stuff. Okay, maybe it doesn't have to do with the mechanics. Maybe it's not the systems and the ways of doing things, the playbook stuff. Maybe it has more to do with how I'm showing up to do it. I mean, picture you give all of your how tos to a clinic owner who is a complainer. Like that's just who they are. They just complain about everything. Do you notice that this individual is going to have success with the how to that has built thousands of really successful. No, it's just not going to happen.

Patients won't like you, your, your staff won't like you. Right.

You won't, you don't like you.

And your spouse won't like you. Right. And you're just always angry. Right. I know a lot of these type of practice owners. Right?

You know, I know. Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean that was the thing for me is I kept giving my people here's a part time million dollar formula like this. Literally this is what I just go do this if that's what you want. And then they would feel stuck because they were approaching with the wrong energy.

Yeah. What would you say is successful ingredients for a successful, like what ingredients would you say are essential or successful for like a practice? You know, what needs to happen, right?

Yeah.

What needs to be there?

Yeah, I think, and I sort of touched on this. But basically I think there are two components. But this is big picture, right? You, you teach the details of it. I'll go big picture. So big picture. To make any business successful, you need two components to it. One is going to be the mechanics of the business, which is, you know, here's the strategy, here's the marketing, here's the systems, here's how you talk at the, with the front desk, here's how you hire, here's how you fire. So the mechanics of it, the systems, communication, scripts, all that stuff. The sales journey, the, you know, the patient journey. And, and then there's the second component, which I don't think it's talked about enough in the entrepreneurial space, which is the energetics of it. Okay. And that's where it's like, okay, Rick gave me all of this formula, all this blueprint, and here I am either not putting it in place or here I am procrastinating. Here I'm waiting for things to be perfect. Here I am waiting for my numbers to be a certain way. I feel stuck. Right. For as long as you're in the scarcity and stuck energy, you will not be able to put Rick's formula and blueprint and be able to take your clinic to the next level. Now, if you show up to everything that Rick teaches you in a. From a state of abundance, like, which means having that vision, having a clear vision of where you're going and being like, oh, I'm going over here. I'm not going to complain. I'm not going to be in scarcity, I'm not going to be in fear. I'm going to. Instead, I'm going to be in abundance. I'm going to be in love, I'm going to be in peace. I'm going to be enjoy and approach those mechanics.

This is more the emotions. Because when I think about why people fail with execution or building the business or the life that they want.

Mm.

I've always viewed it as, like, they suck as a leader. Right. And they can't inspire people or patients on their vision or their bhag or where they want to go. Right. And so then they just get this constant turnover of staff, musical chairs, and no one wants to be around this. Like. Like no one wants to be part of a losing team. Right. And then that turns into bad energy. Right?

Yeah.

And so when you talk about energy, is it like, do you bundle leadership and communication as part of that?

Yeah. I mean, think about. And. And I, you know, okay, so a couple of things about what you said, because that's such a gem right there, is when you say they're not good leaders, they don't feel like they have the idea. If you dig deeper, you dig deeper. They're not confident in their leadership. Right. And if they're not confident, they don't have confidence. And if they don't have confidence, then they're in scarcity or they're in lack or not good enough. Right. So those are emotions, they are thoughts, and together they are a frequency. They are an energetic state. Right.

Like, interesting. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So if you are. So we're speak. Like I said, we're saying the same thing. Just speaking a different language.

No, no, no, I hear, you know, and so like, you know, like, I, I still, I, I still have a, like a therapist and we talk a lot about this confidence type of stuff. Like it's self worth. Right. You know, it comes from a place. You know, like, I grew up in immigrant family, and so I was with my parents. Like, I love them to death, but always grew up with them not making me feel like I was good enough. Right. You know?

Yeah.

You know, you, you were an engineer. You should have been a doctor. You know, a not good enough. A, you know. Right. You didn a master's degree. You want to buy physio clinics. What's wrong with you?

Right? That's like, story of my life.

Yeah, my, my, my dad last week was like, you're taking like, you're gonna be gone for a few years, like homeschooling your, your, your daughter, like, what, what's wrong with you?

The never good enough syndrome that comes.

They're like, you're screwing your daughter, your daughter up too. So, but, but that's what you're talking about, right? Like that lack of confidence which comes from your childhood, like wounds, right? You know?

Well, yeah, and generational trauma. I mean, like, I, if you just want to talk about poverty, like, my, my parents were fine, but when we moved to the United States, like, we didn't have any money. All of a sudden I'm 16 and poor, you know, and we're all living in a small little room. And prior to them, even like my grandparents, they grew up in war. Prior to that, it was the great, like all those thoughts and emotions are passed on through DNA. So no wonder I have a poverty mindset, right? Which I've overcome. But if you come from a poverty mentality and you're, you're given the most valuable like formula, it's not, it's not a match. It's not gonna work. At best, you'll have very tiny improvements, and at worst, you'll burn out trying to do this. But if you can shift your state in your energetic state and then you put this gold into place, that's when you're able to quantum leap. So when you say, what are the components? I go energetics and mechanics is they have to be lined up, they have to be integrated day to day. And then, of course, then big picture on the big vision as well.

And if you don't have it right now, as a practice owner should, you just quit and Sell your business and just go work for someone.

Go home. There's no.

What's that? There you go. You know what? I see a lot of practice owners who should not be practice owners. You should, like, you know, like, you should just. You should have, you know, like, I think they felt like it was like the next step in their journey, you know?

Yes, I know. It's like a borrowed dream, right? You thought it was a good idea, and then when it. Maybe later you realize it's not a good idea or it's not for you, but you're too afraid to let go. I think knowing when to quit is also a really winning strategy.

Hey, actually, let's talk about that one. So when. At what point in your clinic owner journey, you know, like, you keep on losing. Keep on losing. What. When should you quit? Like, what are the signs that you say, hey, you know what? Like, yeah, this is. At a certain point, like, you got to give up, right? You know, like, you're just wasting time, right? And it's sucking your energy and destroying relationships around you. Like, what would you say are, like some. Some yellow flags or red flags that you should seriously consider?

That's such a hard question. You're putting me on the spot because it's like, I never want to tell somebody to quit. But I will say this. The most important lesson that I learned in my. That I've learned in my life, that I've actually tattooed on my arm. Where is it tattooed on my arm? Is here. It says. It says trust.

Trust. Okay?

It's to trust myself is to trust myself. Most people will not sit down and spend time with themselves to try to figure out is, when I became a clinic owner, was it my idea or was it a borrowed dream? You know, right now I'm year three, year 10, year 13. Is this my idea or am I doing it out of a place of fear? Because if I quit, what is my family gonna say? What? You know, I'm not confident in building something else or doing something else or. Yeah, what. What am I. How am I going to be perceived? What are other people gonna think? So I don't know that I have. Like, here are the three things. If, you know, these things are, you know, you should quit.

I'm the how to guy. I wanna know the how to.

I know, but I also. I'm hesitant to tell somebody to.

No, I agree. Yeah.

I mean, what if, like, someone right now, if they're listening to this conversation and they've had a hard, like, two decades, and then all of a Sudden something clicks and they're like, they turn things around and they're like, oh, it's my energy. And then they like, I don't know. I'm just optimistic about how that works.

Humanity.

About humanity. Yeah. I have high hopes for us.

Yeah. Yeah. I do agree with you. I 100 agree. It is not the tactics, not mechanic. It's 100 on how you lead and communicate. And I'm gonna just add that third piece, which you talked about, which is your energy levels. Right. You know, and how you show up, because as an entrepreneur or a clinic owner, like, you need to have people who are aligned that want to follow you. And, like, if you're not a passionate person, if you're not likable, and if. If people don't want to be around you because of your energy levels, then you're never going to build a successful practice. Hell, no. You can have all the recipes and formulas. You. I tried this, I tried that. You know, but yeah, you know, at that point, you should be, you know, you should doing some of this quantum leap, like, coaching stuff. Right. You know, or the mindset stuff, or go talk to a therapist to deal with your child. How some of your, you know, feeling like, you know, like, whether it's that your mindset or not feeling good enough, you know, like, or. Or dealing with some of your childhood wound stuff. Right?

Yeah, exactly.

And I think it's hard for a lot of, like, male clinical owners to actually even consider it, you know, because there's a lot of ego, like, in. In this. Right. You know, and so.

Also a lot of pressure on men, you know, providence of protect to, you know, there's. There's just a lot of societal, familial pressure on men. You know, I meet because I speak to the burnout on. On stages all over the US and international. I definitely dive into the burnout. Right. So I actually hear stories of men will walk up to me after I speak on stage, and they'll speak to the fact that, you know, I am burning out, I am tired. I don't want to do this. But they feel so trapped in the situation that they are in. And sometimes a shift in mindset can be the thing that, you know, has you. Quantum leap.

Yeah. Sounds like everyone should be joining a Tony Robbins course, you know, to shift their mindset, Right?

Well, I don't know. I did Tony Robbins for a while, and I think Tony Robbins more like like do, do, do, which is the mechanics and not enough energetics. I was a platinum partner for Tony Robbins. I Traveled all over the world with.

Him and, oh, wow. Wow.

He was a big part of my journey. But I think also, you know, I found ease in. In other ways too.

Okay, cool. Yeah. You. You have a very interesting perspective, you know. Right. Yeah.

Well, I hope it's helpful for your audience.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But I'll tell you this. I think the best thing that happened in Covid was that, like, I think it brought up, like, you know, these real issues of, like, mental health and, like, burnout and feeling overwhelmed, whereas in the past, people wouldn't talk about it. Right. Like, more and more. Like, you know, like, even within our community, I get a lot of our members, like, in. And a lot of males. A lot of, like, you know, more males than ever seen before where they're like, hey, Rick, can I talk to your therapist? Right. Because I'm pretty open, like, talking about it because, you know, help save my marriage, but it's also helping with, like, other stuff. And I. And almost use my therapist as, like, a life coach now, now, too. Right. I'm talking about real stuff. I'm like, this is what's happening. Like, am I crazy to think like, this? You know, why do I get so upset when my dad yells at me still? You know?

Yeah, I. I know what you mean. And I, you know, I hope if there are any men that are listening, like, they know that they are supported, you know, that they can be supported. They can find support in mentorship and a coach and a therapist.

Yeah. What are some resources that you would, like, you know, recommend or. Yeah. Recommend to. To tune. Yeah. To them.

You know, some men who are, you know, I. I'm not a man, so it's hard for me to dis. Like, to. To make suggestions. I, like, directly to them or just.

Like, resources that they would, like, seek. Yeah. Well, if they're feeling overwhelmed, you know, or like they feel like they're going through some mental health stuff, you know, or. Or. Yeah. Or when struggling ships. Right.

I think what I would say is that vulnerability is a really incredible tool for men that is underutilized. So you rarely meet men that are, you know, And I'm single and I've date well. I'm not single. I'm in a relationship, but I mean, I'm not married is what I mean. And I dated for a while, and I remember meeting men and being like, where is the depth? But then I started to understand that the depth was not. It's not that it didn't exist. It was just. There was so much Fear and anxiety in sharing that because they would be perceived as weak.

Yeah.

And so I think the. I think that for men to get vulnerable, like the fact that they're coming to you and they're telling you, and I think probably safer for them in a. In a relationship, maybe with other men to share, maybe with women, I don't know. But to get vulnerable and be like, Rick, I have a problem. I'm unhappy, I'm unfulfilled. My marriage is suffering. My. I don't feel good enough, like, to have a. Of sense space or a support system where they can have that conversation. But you can't have that support system if you can't go deep and if you can't be vulnerable about what you are experiencing. So I think it goes back into sitting with yourself and figuring out what is going on that you are unhappy about, that you need to change, and then finding the support system where you can share that in a safe space.

Yeah, yeah, those are great tips.

You know, sort of my perspective, I. I could be totally off because like I said, I'm not a man. This is my perspective as a woman.

No, no, I think it's great. I think we're. Yeah. No, I. It's interesting. Like, we just spoke for like, for the first time for like 30, 40 minutes, and I feel like I've known you for a long time.

Yeah, same. Well, I figured we. We are very similar, like I said, from the first few minutes we chatted.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's super cool. All right, last question. I'm curious. Where do you see the profession of chiropractics, chiropractors going in the U.S. like, where is this profession going, which is with everything that's going on. And let me give some context. Is like, you know, obviously, like, there's reimbursements going on. Like, you got like all these other different, like, allied health cares all competing in the same space trying to fix the exact same thing, whether it's physical therapists or you got naturopaths, you know, and. And then. Yeah. So I'm just curious, like, where do you see, like, the chiropractic profession, like, heading, like, in the years to come?

Yeah. You know, let me preface with what we discovered on this call about me, which is I am optimistic about humanity, which makes me optimistic about chiropractors too. So I do see that there is a lot more concierge, you know, a lot more of the concierge type businesses in the medical model and in the chiropractic model that are popp up. I also see a lot, a lot more groups or multiple clinics that are sort of the, the rollup model. I see a couple of those, you know, like just in my bubble that are happening at the same time, which is a beautiful thing. And, and I also see that after Covid and just where the consciousness of people is that I, I do see a lot of hope for chiropractic because for the first time people are actually seeking alternative of medicine because of you know, the pain that, that they all went through or the discoveries or the truths that, that they were discovered as a result of this really traumatic thing that happened which was Covid. Right. So people seeking something different. There's more awareness around alternative therapy. So I think that the future of chiropractic is going to be amazing. It's going to be great.

I love that. I love that. You know. Yeah. These clinic rollouts we're talking about that, you know, like is there, is, is there a specific group that's done rolling be joint chiropractics? But I think those. That's more like a franchise. Right?

That's definitely a franchise. I actually talked to the, the, the founder of, of that, of the joint. They have 800 plus clinics. They're seeing insane people. It's wild. Yeah, it's a franchise. And you know what he told me? He. Well he's his interviews on my podcast. So I guess I can say this but he said he wouldn't necessarily do FR the franchise model if he had.

To do it again, I wouldn't do franchise. It's, it's. That's a tough business. I mean so much practice owner that wants to open up a franchise. Like I don't know, you fully understand what you need to do for a franchisee, you know.

Yeah.

You know, to keep them, you know, profitable. Right.

I've talked to multiple people like Robert Melello who is the founder of Brain Balance in, in the States and he's doing some other things. But he sold his franchise and he told me the same exact thing. He was like I wouldn't do the franchise model but the role, the roll up model with an exit strategy has been super popular in, in the States. I looked into it. I'm part of one as an investor and yeah that those are popping up. There's not like what's the biggest group right now?

What's the biggest chiropractic roll up that you see? Because there's nothing compared to the, is nothing compared to the physical therapy roll up. That's a big space. Right. You know. Right. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know what it's like in the physical. I don't know that they would be a well known rollup, to be honest with you. Because the way it looks is usually it's just like one to 10 clinics. So they roll, they get to 10 and then, you know, they're, they're, you're looking at about 10 million in revenue. And then they'll roll it up and they'll have an exit strategy for a hundred million. Okay. And then they exit and.

Okay.

And then they do whatever they do with it.

So they're just rolling up like a dozen or so, is that what you're saying? Like they're not rolling up like hundreds or thousands. Right?

They're. Right now I think more of what's happening is the, the chiropractic industry is becoming familiar with the roll up model for the first time. So what I experience is more of the 10 to 12 and then exit and then I don't know, I don't know too many that if, if they're not a franchise, you know, then there's this other model where there are a few of these that have popped up over the years where like they have the one owner and then the partial owner associate, but open up 10 clinics all under. But it's not roll up, it's just, you know, partnerships, ownerships. Yeah, Split up ownerships.

Yeah. I think I shared with you like, you know, the clinics I used to own right now is owned by like the largest like grocery chain, you know. Right. And, and they're, they already rolled up pharmacies. Now they want to roll up like physical therapy clinics. Right. So they got about 3, 400, you know, like, but if you look in the U.S. you know, like there is like, like there's so much of these big groups, you know, like, you know, my good friend Chris at USPH, they got 600, 700, like physical therapy clients clinics. You got ATI, I think they got 800, you know, they got select medical. They're inside the hospitals. I think they got thousands, you know, and, and a lot of these, like smaller ones that own 50 or 100 clinics right now are actually backed for private equity. Right. And so they roll it all up and then they sell it to like kind of like the next guy on the top, you know, the strategics. Right. So who are, want to pay like, you know, that, you know, double digit, like multiples. Right, so. So.

Exactly. Yeah. And that's not so much happening in the US with the chiropractic model. But I do think we're on our way there. I, you know, in a while, in a while. Because like I said chiropractors, if you told them, if you said roll up model to the average chiropractors would be like what is that? Is that a, like a fruit roll up? You know, I don't know, they wouldn't know what it is. But I do think that that's popping up more.

Yeah. And I'm curious like, you know like one trend that I see happening in Canada and actually even outside of the US is that you're seeing more multi disciplinary clinics. Right. You know, so you know, like, like, you know, like a lot of the practice owners you work with, like they might own a 3,4 million dollar practice and a million that's physiotherapy. A million is chiropractic, a million is massage and a million is like maybe like, like the other stuff like you know, like naturopathic medicine, medical. But. And then I see like, you know, I see chiropractors owning this, you know, like in Canada or in Australia or I even see like. So it's not just like physical therapy owning, but I don't see that happening in the US And I'm just curious like why is that? Is this an ego thing between the professions or.

Well, I think there are a couple of components. One, I do see it, I, I have a couple clinics that I directly work with that are like that. They're, they're multi location integrated, they have medical. There's so many of them in the States. But to your point, but not at scale.

Right. Like you, you see a few here and there, but it's not a common theme. Like there's just, it seems like there's this old school, like physio versus Cairo, like mindset stuff. Right?

They're with physios or with medical because majority of them are medical and Cairo combined.

Yes. You're talking about. Yes, yeah, yeah, I'm talking about physio and Cairo being in the same space.

Okay. So no, I don't see a ton of those and I, yeah, I would agree probably the old why as a.

Consumer don't you want a one stop shop? You know like and it's already a category, you know, that they search for, you know.

Yeah, I know there is, I mean that's definitely a philosophical thing for chiropractors. I think part of it, the other part of it is, is well what's the benefit of having a physio under chiropractic license. Right. So what's better than that? What's better than, than physio and Cairo getting together for chiropractors seems to be the chiro and the medical and physio. Why? Because then you bill under the medical for physio and for Cairo and then now your, you know, your insurance payout instead of like $80, is like $800. Right. So they. In the medical and the other piece of it is in the. I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the States, and don't quote me on this particular fact, but I do believe that if you bring in medical, for example, which is what more so the theme in the States, the Cairo can't own that entity fully. So there you got to follow a loophole.

And yeah, there's tons of legal structures around that, you know, like, you know, know.

So I think that stops a lot of the average chiropractor to integrate.

Interesting. Yeah, I, yeah, it boggles my mind how like I don't see more of that in the U.S. like, everyone's just like, I want to do my own thing, you know, but like it's like. And yes, they blame the legal, they sp. They blame the regulatory and all this other stuff. But like, I just, I just feel like it's a little backwards, you know. Right. From a consumer standpoint. Right.

You know, yeah, but I think that a lot chiropractic, I mean, you, you probably know this or come across this, but chiropractic is what is about removing subluxation and allowing the, you know, the flow of energy to go from, you know, from above down inside out. So if I bring, if that's my product, I'm super passionate about it. That's literally why I became a chiropractor, because I want to heal people through that particular tool. Then to bring in physio, it's going to mix my messaging that I think that's the thought process. But that also, that also speaks to the fact that that's why a lot of chiropractors and I think just healthcare professionals in general, they're not business savvy, they don't have education.

But regardless of what that chirophysio thinks, there is like, there is like the same amount of traffic on Google like of someone searching for physical therapy and chiropractic, you know. Okay, so it's not even a competition. It's like people saying, I want a physical therapist, I want a chiropractor, I want a massage therapist. I want to like, you're just like you're just fulfilling demand here has nothing to do with like whose patient this is, you know, because someone that is calling for physical therapy, they want physical therapy. Someone calling for a chiropractor, they want like there's nothing you could like do that's like convert them, you know, so.

Yeah, and I personally see it that way too. The other thing I see is let's say someone raises their hand, they go, I want physical therapy. Then they come in and then what about freaking cross conversion? If you care so much about chiropractic, like what about cross converting the physio?

This is what we do in Canada. This is what we do in Canada. This is why like our, our typical like you know the. When I look at the best practice in our community, like they're doing 3,4 million, you know, it's because like they're going after the search terms that the patient wants already. Not what the Cairo wants, not what the physio wants is actually what the patient wants. Okay. So anyways, I'll leave it at that. Like we took a lot of your time. I'm. No, I'm super curious. How do people find out more about you and the type of coaching that you do? Like how do people like hear find out more about you?

Yeah, I have. Well, probably the same way you found out about me is on Instagram. I'm. Yeah, I'm on Instagram. They can look me up on Instagram. But my web, on my website, on, on my Instagram page specifically, I have a link that gives them a guide. It's a free guide. It's a multiple page PDF that hopefully won't sit in their inbox if they download it. But in that guide I walk people through the steps that I personally took that took me from being completely burnt out in my clinic and in my life, really, and being able to transform my life and you know, and have a juicy expansive life. So if they're interested in more of the life vision concepts, there's a guide there. And my website is Elevate me, which is not spelled like elevate, it's spelled E L I V A T E dot me. So that's my web. Just to make it complicated. Right.

Okay. And what's your website? So if you could go to it, that's.

Yeah. So E L I V A T E dot me. That's okay.

Cool.

Or just Google my name, that might be easier.

Yes, you will see her everywhere on social media. Like I see ice or a website, I see her feed all the time. So. Well, we'll see everyone, like next week on the show. And Nona, thank you for being a guest on today's show. It was awesome. Kind of meeting with you in chat for the first time. I feel like I've known you for years.

Yeah, thank you. Same. I really appreciate it. I had a great time. Thanks, Rick.

Thanks. If you found this helpful and want some free resources to help you be an even better clinic owner, head over to clinicbosstools.com we've got tons of free stuff on getting new patients, bone strips, selling your clinic, managing clinical teams, and much more. Head over to clinicbosstools.com.