OEM Procedures Can’t Be Optional: How to Write the Law - Peyton Bell

Most of you guys listening to the podcast are old dudes like me. We've all heard the same conversation for years. How do we get young techs into the industry? Today's different. I'm talking to the youngest shop owner I've ever met, Peyton Bell, a 25 year old owner of Bell Auto Body in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. Peyton's got that dominate the world energy and he's aiming it at the Oklahoma Senate. Now, honestly, I'm not a legislation guy. I'm not even sure legislation is the answer to the insurance problem for shops, because done wrong, it can actually harm them. But I'm sure of this. Peyton's tenacity is a lesson for us all. In this episode, he walks us through how to actually start the process in your state, how to pitch it so lawmakers care, and why he believes one principle should be non negotiable. If the OEM says it's required for a safe repair, an insurer shouldn't be able to deny payment for it. And on that, we can both agree. In this episode, we discuss the playbook, the pushback, and what it takes to change the rules instead of caving in on every concession and every claim. Hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome to Operational Intelligence. I'm Tom zoblin. I spent 15 years running a marketing agency in the collision industry. I sold it and now I build AI tools at the Hero Group to help shops run better. The world does not need another collision podcast full of generic industry talk. So I'm doing this one my way. It's owners teaching owners one episode, one topic, and one operational lesson that you can take back to your shop and use. And seriously, what is it with all these marketing people turned podcast hosts anyway? So, Peyton, I've been waiting to hear the backstory. I know that there's kind of an interesting story about how you got into the collision business. First of all, I just want to point out you're probably the youngest guest I've had. You're only two years older than my son, so you're literally like half my age. So I think a of lot, lot of people in the collision business are around my age. So you're definitely one of the young guns. And so it's going to be really interesting, I think, to get not only your perspective, but to hear how, how does a young guy, you know, most young guys are like, starting out as a technician. Most owners were technicians. They were for a while. They had an opportunity to maybe buy out the shop they were working for or, or whatever. But you're you're coming in at kind of young technician level and. And an owner. So that's got to be an interesting story, and I'm. I'm really interested to hear how that all happened.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, a little bit of backstory about me. I've always struggled with working for other people. I know a lot of guys have that same story. You know, I had my first job at a racetrack when I was, like, 16 years old, 15 years old, and it maybe lasted three weeks, and I was already out the door. So I started my first, you know, steps into the entrepreneurial world in lawn care when I was 15, 16 years old, you know, mowing lawns in high school. And I actually grew that company through the four years in high school to a commercial lawn and landscape company. I had multiple crews. We were taking care of city water treatment plants, hoas, you know, we were doing holiday light installation, big landscaping projects. So it grew to the point where I was leaving school early to go do jobs, and, you know, I had cool agreements with my teachers and whatnot. They'd let me sneak out at fifth hour or whatnot and go take care of business. And I drove a big, you know, diamond lawn care stapled on the side of the truck, and everybody knew who it was. So it was. It was definitely cool to get, you know, positive feedback from people that you look up to and. And getting into, you know, business ownership. And I was in all the business classes, and they were like, yeah, you know, go, Peyton. So that. A lot of support there. And I ended up selling that company to go to college, and I went to Oklahoma State University, and I went into the Spears school of Business. My family really pushed for college and kind of didn't really know where I wanted to go. Business ownership was stressful. I really just had my mom. I didn't have any other side of the family. Mom was a physical therapist. Nobody else had been an entrepreneur in the family. So the first one, and she was like, you know, you should go to college for this. And so I went, and I made it three weeks, just like nothing. And I. I did not even withdraw. I just packed it up and left.

Wow.

For me, you know, as an entrepreneur, you'd kind of have to sit back and wait sometimes. My neighbor owned this body shop called Bob's paint and Body, and I was always into big trucks when I was a kid, and he had this big lifted truck, and I loved everything about it, and he was a cool guy, and. And so I. I hit him up, and I was like, hey, man, you know, I know you're remodeling your body shop. I've got a bunch of construction experience. I got a bunch of buddies that, you know, can help with this, you know, let me come work for you. So he brings me on and I'm essentially, you know, running the remodel and then just a handyman doing everything that you can think of in a body shop. Fixing light fixtures, fixing paint booths, you know, sheetrock drywall, you know, painting floors, you know, keeping up with the booth. And in all of this, you know, you learn how the business operates. So I did that for about two months where on the handyman side. And then while I was there on a scissor lift, I watched one of his employees just up and quit. And, you know, I had some background in cars and trucks and working on my own stuff. I built a Supra in high school and, you know, built my own trucks and whatnot. So I had a small tool kit and a desire to want to work on cool stuff. I mean, they were doing, you know, brand new cars stuff that I hadn't gotten my hands on. And I'm 20 years old and almost 21. And so I convinced him to let me bring my toolbox up and, you know, same pay, salary, cheap, you know, still floor sweeper pay. And I got to start working on the cars and figured out how they were built really quick, got, you know, just turned into a pretty fast tech. I keep up with the guys. I still am not the best with Bondo and sculpting. That's not my. But I can splice quarters. I, I can, I can pull frames. I understand the geometry of the car and I clung on to the, the transfer of energy and how the safety systems worked in the cars. Really, that just fascinated me. And so I would do my own research and, well, this is where things get kind of crazy. I, you know, while I'm working there, I come into work one day and there the place is like a ghost town. You know, I'm there first one there and waiting on people to open the doors. And I come in and all of my toolbox drawers are open and there's paper strung everywhere. And, you know, this, the place looked like it had been ransacked. And I go into the office and the safe is sitting on the desk and the doors open to the safe and there's this stack of papers sitting on the top of the stave. And so I looked at one of the papers and it said, you know, police department search warrant.

Wow.

Immediately, it Clicked. I was like, okay, obviously a lot of people served a big warrant here. I've seen, you know, crime, TV shows. I know how that goes down.

Yeah.

And. And so I just kind of went back and put my tools, took an inventory, made sure all my tools were there. Fortunately, nothing was missing. Everybody eventually came in and business was kind of normal, minus the owner. And I wait for the manager to show up and I kind of walk into the door and I look at him all wide eyed and I was like, he's in jail, isn't he? And he goes, how do you know that? And I'm like, well, you don't got to be a rocket scientist to figure out what this stack of papers is and the safe up on the desk. And so I'm not going to go into too much detail on, you know, exactly what it was, but substances with things that go boom and overseas that shouldn't be intertwined in American business.

Wow.

Less like just stuff that is like way over my head was involved. And the federal government, you know, got involved with that gentleman. And so, you know, that's all I'm going to say on, on that stuff. But ultimately it resulted in his absence. And so I watch, you know, some family come in from out of state try to run the business. And, you know, a lot of the customer base and where we were getting the work from, obviously they pulled, pulled strings, cut ties, so the revenue dropped substantially. And keep in mind, I'm just a tech and nobody knows any of my backstory, but the guy that got, you know, put in the post, right? And so I'm just kind of back and waiting and watching. And I got this bright idea. I was like, you know, that I might be able to do this. You know, I think I could probably pull this off. And so I start talking to the manager and I think there was one time where it showed him that I could do it. And it was when a customer had an issue with one of their cars. The office was not really wanting to deal with the customer. And so I come back covered in grease after fixing this customer car. They're like, peyton, you know, get this thing right. You know, it was all. It was a comeback from another repair from another technician. So I fix it and I go up and talk to the customer and I was like, you know, just call her Ms. Susan. Ms. Susan. Hey, my name is Peyton. I'm the technician that worked on your car. This is what was wrong. This is where we messed up. This is how I fixed it. Trust me, this is done right I did it per procedure and, you know, gave her a sense of security before she took her car. And the management was like, where'd you learn how to do that and talk like that? Now then I think that kind of gave them the idea that it's like I could do the office work, right? So then they started letting me get into the office. The management, the manager did at the time and he kind of showed me the ropes of how things worked. And the family was really, really not wanting to let go of this place. You know, they wanted to maximize their gain from what they could get and what, you know, I understood all that, but the company was bleeding and it was going to die. And ultimately it came down to, you know, either you're going to file bankruptcy and lose this place or you're going to sell it over to me because nobody wants to touch this thing with a 10 foot pole, given what happened. And there were some big vendor debts that had to be paid down and there were people that were pissed off that were owed money by the company. And so ultimately I circumvented the family and got directly to the owner. I'm not going to tell you how, but I, I got a hold of him while he was in the, in the pokey and I got the paperwork drafted for to getting, you know, to get the business and get all of the, you know, the things in order to buy a business. There's a lot of it.

Yeah, yeah, I've been through, I've been through that once selling mine.

So it's everything but a rectal exam, dude.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is ultimate.

I personally drove to the jail and walked into the jail and put the paperwork in front of him and he said, you've been blessed, you know, good luck, kid. And that day I got the business. I was 21 years old, I had everything. And so now I've got this long list of debts that need to be paid down. I agreed to indemnify him of all of his debts. I said, I'm going to pull this thing out of the hole. I'm going to get it where it needs to be. And so I used a lot of cash that I had sitting in my account from my previous ventures. You know, I told you I've bought, sold businesses and built them up into this point and wasn't exactly the smartest with my money, but I had some. So I put that in along as well as getting with a private investor that has been a real big mentor for me in business. He's an awesome guy. And I'm not going to reveal who he is, but he is, he is as the closest thing to a father figure and mentor that I've had. And he's like my, my foundation for being in business supports me and has helped me get to where I am today.

That's great.

He, he invested as well as putting in my own capital and then a ton of sweat equity, let me tell you. So what I did was I paid down all the vendor bills with my money and I went to every vendor and I said, my name's Peyton. Bob's Paint and Body is no longer a thing. We are now Bell Auto Body, and I'm going to pay Bob's Paint and Body's debt with my own money and I want you to send me all the work and maintain this relationship and we're going to grow together. And I said, your other option is this company is going to file bankruptcy and this bill's not getting paid. Yeah, they were very quick to take.

Right, right.

You know, and so I had some forced way into some vendors that were responsible for a high volume of cars. And so I had the work, I had the staff. Now we had all the building blocks that we needed. And I literally roughed it through the first year of trial by fire on how to write estimates. And Collision Hub was huge. You know, leaning on Larry and Kristen and taking their courses. I mean, I spent thousands of dollars with Collision Hub, but it was the best money.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

I dove right. And now keep in mind, this is 2021, so. And to make things easy, the year it is is how old I am. Right? 2000.

Yeah.

Let you build the timeline and correlate it with my age. That, you know, 2021. 21 year old kid, never written an estimate in his life, went to writing sheets and, and you know, negotiating with adjusters as the owner, all within six months. And so there was a lot of learning and there were some adjusters that actually helped me and then there were some adjusters that took advantage of my, my ignorance and, and you know, really screwed their pooch. But you hindsight's 20 20. You know, you learn through these things.

So let's move on from that. Let's get to the thing that really matters here, what the main topic is. So, you know, the whole podcast is about, and we talked about a lot of things that you, that I think you do best. But the, the thing that we wanted to focus on for this podcast is your, like getting involved at the, at the state level. The, and the, you know, you were kind of mentioned a little bit with some of the laws. You're obviously well versed in it. So if, if, if I were to ask you again, you know, what's, what's the one thing that you do better than any other shop out there? What would you say that is?

I'm dang near a politician. Oh no, I'm not. But I can tell you that getting into the legislative space is the most important thing you can do as a business owner in collision repair. That is it that right now, this is the time to get into legislation. There's a lot of people that I look up to that don't agree with me.

Yeah, there's a lot.

I'm still in conversation with those people and because I want to know, I'm a sponge for information. But the way I see it is insurance companies have leveled the playing field between their network and the independents. There is nothing that sets an independent apart from an insurance company's estimate. Right. They are paid the same whether it's at the MSO or it's at the insurance. At the non insurance shop. They have gotten that strict on what they're willing to allow and what they're not willing to allow. Sometimes you can, you know, beg and bag and bag and get 0.3d nib time, but there's not like a thousands and thousands of dollars in difference without rta. So State Farm in Oklahoma does not have an RTA in their policy. I don't know if they have it anywhere in the nation, but they're the number one like offender for short pays here in Oklahoma because we cannot invoke rta. There is not one in the policy for repair disputes. So it is what it is and they will write whatever they want. And usually it's the same thing that they would write across the street at the mso. And so I'm fixing the cars for the same amount of money that the guys that are fixing 500 of these things improperly are, are doing. And so there's nothing that sets the independent apart. We don't have the option to do it. Right. We are forced to. You know, I say financially forced. You're not forced. You're not forced to do anything, but you are financially burdened into doing it the wrong way by the carrier. All of this is about what the insurance company is willing to pay. They use payment as a way to steer the repair. I mean their estimate, you know, contractually it doesn't mean anything. Like it's just a reference sheet. Ultimately it's the total dollar for the claim and what you wanted. Like, your estimate is actually what matters because your estimate reflects what you actually did to the car.

Yeah.

So, like, you've. The only way that you are going to get change in your facility is if you bill the customer.

Exactly.

And the customer has the money to go out of pocket and. And pay for the correct repairs.

Right.

And. And go get reimbursement from their insurance carrier, which is encumbersome on the customer. It is timely, and it takes a lot of time for me to explain that process and explain what you have to do to, you know, everything from filing in small claims to talk attorneys. And it just scares the average person. There's a lot of people that have never been into a courtroom. Back in 2021, they would pay for it. Now they won't. It doesn't matter. Like, I showed you guys the video with State Farm where they just blatantly denied airbag reprogramming.

Yeah.

Opus wouldn't write for it. And I provided all the procedure and they still said no, you can try to send it in, but it's not going to help you. So that's what we're dealing with. If there's a law put in place, you know, the insurance companies are in the legislative space. They're in there deep. They got. Oh, yeah, you know, there's money going into these. But the people still have to be elected and the. The constituents are going to be who the politicians listen to when enough of them complained. And so if you want to gain traction, you get in the room with those senators, you get in the room, you go have lunch. I got lunch on the 27th with a senator from District 9 here in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. We're having coffee. I also go to the meet and greets. I met the attorney General, the guy that, the guy that I'm suing. I. I went and talked to him, you know, had to sue him on a formality. He's actually a really great guy. He's also running for governor here in Oklahoma. That, you know, we. We had a short conversation and. And he understands, you know, a lot of this. And so these people are not evil. Like. Like, there's a big misconception that every single politician is just bought and dirty. I mean, look at what you sent me this morning with GE Bringing a bill to the table that I don't know exactly how it's written. I haven't had the time to go into their bill because I've been working on my own.

It's Very. Yeah, I was gonna say it's. It's very pro body shop. The way it's written, it reads to me.

Absolutely. And not only pro body shop, but pro consumer.

Pro consumer. Yes, yes.

Like, like, we want the customers taken care of. My business will make money whether I put an aftermarket bumper or an OEM bumper on the car. But. And my business will also make money whether you hot glue fenders on the car or you'll put the bolts in the right way. Like the, the, the. The act of fixing the car is going to generate money. Hence why the MSOs are still in business. Ultimately, it's the consumer safety that you're advocating for.

Yes.

What happens in the next collision. And so to ensure that we have safe vehicles on the road and that these cars are going to hold up in the next crash and they're. The airbag timing is not going to be affected in a neg. The repairs that are being executed this time, we have to follow that procedure. We have to follow xyz. And so when you present this to an insurer and they say, no, we're not going to pay for it, you're not allowed to do it. We're not going to pay for you to do it. You got to bill the customer. And then you go to the customer and they're like, I can't afford it now. You're like, okay, well, for me to do it the wrong way, you need to sign a whole harmless. And take this car back that's potentially repaired improperly and maybe has a collapsed steering column or maybe the airbag mounting bracket bolts are messed up or there's a million things that could have. Could. That woulda, coulda, should or could be or what ifs that you just don't know until you checked. You. You're doing an injustice to the customer every time you fix a car and do not review. And also you're inheriting a huge amount of liability. I don't know if you know John Eagle is. But yeah, my God. You know.

Yeah.

Stuff's real.

Yeah.

And I tell lawmakers, you know, a family burned inside of a Honda Fit on the highway because of an improper repair. Is it going to take Oklahomans burning in the car or death of Oklahomans on the road due to improper collision repair for you to listen or are you going to listen to me now? And that usually gets their attention. You've got to have energy when you're talking to these people. You know, politicians really don't talk to that many constituents when it comes to the same issue over and over again. If you send an email to a politician, you'll get a call back. If two people send an email to a politician, they're going to be like, what is going on? If five people contact that same politician over the same issue from different areas, they're like, this must be the end of the world. The sky's falling. Like the numbers aren't that insane. It doesn't take but a group of people that is from one city to make a difference on an entire state and you know, with your association gets a lobbyist and the lobbyist is doing the right thing, you can get change. And so when the bill is written properly, the way I would see it, it is an insurer cannot deny payment for OEM parts. OEM mine, item material billing. You know, I've commented it a few times on Facebook in a couple of different, like small places. But the big ticket is not telling body shops what to do. Yeah. Somebody how to run their business.

Yeah.

But what you are going to do is you're going to say, hey Mr. Insurance Company, you cannot deny payment for this if it's requested from you. So leave the DRPs intact. If they don't ask for OEM parts, then the liability falls on that shop right where you're parked.

Yeah.

It's between the shop and the customer. And that's a battle that they're going to have to fight. But you can't mandate that I inherit this bad lie, this liability nightmare of a car with a bunch of salvage and, and aftermarket parts that's not permitted to be on the vehicle and you know, run the risk of airbags not deploying at the right time working or the steering column going through the center of somebody's chest like, like it's just, you can't manage it in a business do that. And so if the business writes for factory procedure, factory part factory, this and then supplies the documentation like I didn't. 21. An insurance company cannot deny payment for that. I, the, the people that disagree with me tell me how I'm wrong. What is the other side of this page that I am not seeing?

I'll tell you. So I've seen shops that'll do the, the, the whole harmless thing, you know, but they, they do push back on insurance companies and they do get, you know, baby State farm in your area. You're not able to make any, any moves back. But so I, but what they'll tell you is to build a customer and then have them like it's not your problem. Like if you're, if you're a cardiologist and you, you just saved a person's life, you'll, you'll guide them to, you know, and they, and let's say they have to pay out of pocket for stuff. You know, like I had my gallbladder up a year ago. I had to pay, I have really great insurance. I had to pay $1300 out of pocket for it. The things that weren't covered and they came in, in little drips and drabs and it's like, well, this wasn't covered for 37 and this wasn't covered for $110. But all in, all in total is $1300. I think that what the ones that would disagree with you and, and I'm not picking a side here, so let me just, just put that out there. But that, that is what they would say is just, you just gotta build your customer. It's got to get better at doing that because it's, it ultimately it's not your responsibility. But as you've highlighted that your responsibility is to fix that car safely. But I've seen shops do the whole heartless thing where they've gotten it. So let's say you're short paid 4900 bucks, right? And you can push back and you can push back and you get it down to that fifteen hundred dollars. So they're not out four thousand nine hundred dollars, but maybe there's a fifteen hundred dollar gap and you bill them for that and you let them know all through the beginning of the whole process from the, from the time you're speaking with them that you may be responsible for this bill. I'm also one of the guys that was on my podcast. He has them sign a contract. He's not going to touch the car until you agree that you may be responsible and you're signing a legal contract with him. So that person has agreed to use this shop, they want their car fixed that way. He's the only independent shop in a small town full of nothing but DRP shops. But I agree with you. I think that there should be legislation that you can't deny something simply because you don't want to pay for it. That should be, that should be illegal. I think that if you're to kind of talk to most shop owners, your pathway, although while it may lead to what you want, it's a really long hard road to get there. You got to spend all this time with politicians, you got to do all this kind of stuff. The average Guy who's trying to fight for survival. I think he's going to look at what could I really do here in my shop. And he's going to probably focus on, you know, pushing back to the insurance company with whatever means that is and then getting that customer to pay or just not fixing the car. If, if they, if they acknowledge the fact that my business is at risk for not doing it this way. Like if I do it, the insurance.

Insurance way into is his volume is going to shrink so much that his car count won't keep the lights off. He's going to drop payroll and the business is going to shrink and they're going to choke out and that's what the insurance company wants, that. They want you to die. They want all that work to go through their network shops.

Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Yeah.

And so, you know, the, as the networks get stronger and stronger and stronger, you know, I guess the, the real question is maybe this industry isn't for you like that. That's a, that's a thought that you really need to consider. And I've considered it many times. I mean if I put the same amount of thought into oil and gas that I do this industry, I pretty sure that I'd be making a lot more money. Like if I actually tried as hard as I do in this entire industry and community in something else, it would be more lucrative. But it doesn't help people, it only helps me. Yeah, I get, I get the, the itch to help and I feel good once I've accomplished, you know, helping somebody else. I've made a friend, I've made a connection, I made a relationship. I don't make customers for one time. I make repeat customers that want to come back and they're first. And so you make those positive experiences here and that's really what I love to do. You do have to be stern. You have to be clear cut. There are times where you have to build the customer. If you're not going to make profit on the job and the job is just that poorly written and I've had a few and you can't afford to go out of pocket. You've got to turn the work down. But you can refer them to the, the nearest person that's going to do the work for that amount of money that you might trust, you know, and you can educate the customer, you know, you should probably get full coverage and go with this insurance company that has an RTA in their policy so that I can fix this next time. You know, you've Got to be willing to put in the effort. And if you don't do it now with the customers that you have, you're going to die. You're going to fizzle up and die. That's how I see it. Because your reputation is everything. And what is setting you apart from the Gerbers and EMSOs right now? The only thing that's setting you apart is you've got friction with the insurance company and Gerber doesn't. You're getting the same parts, the same labor times. What's the difference what you, the services that you provide for the customer for free, that is what's going to be the difference. And mine is a network of referrals and ways to help. And so I don't know if you want to call it my final act or whatever if I, if it's the last thing that I do in this industry. But getting a law passed that helps everyone and has no downside. And don't give me this claims cost BS where premiums are going to go up because I'll show you the graphs of aftermarket part usage from 2021 to 2025, claims prices from 2021 to 2025 on average, insurance premium prices from 2021 and 2025 on average and insurance profits from 2021 to 2025 on average. Run all of them and all of them run concurrent. That's a problem. If they get the DOI to raise claims or premiums and they get the DOI to agree to raise premium prices amongst an entire state, your problem's in the doi. Your problem is not in the insurance company because of course the insurance company is going to want to pass cost on the customer. That's. If I was running business, that's what I would do. It's a smart business move. I want to maintain my profit margins that I have had. But if you're regulated by a government entity like a department of insurance commissioner, you need to make sure your insurance commissioner isn't bought by the insurance companies and is keeping premium prices in check. They're the ones that audit those accounts. They're the ones that have the, you know, the inspector inspecting glass over the insurance companies to make sure they've got the money to cover claims, make sure they're not overinsured. And you know, do I need to pull up what state farms profits were in quarter four, 2025?

Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

Like we've been down this road everybody. This, this correlation. So I don't give me the dumb argument where oh, premium prices are Going to go up, then talk to your doi Seriously, because you, you're choking out small business owners who are trying to do the right thing. You're pushing everything to MSOs, which clearly can't fix cars, right? John Eagle hot glued fenders. And, and so I just submit.

So then you're, you're. I guess what you're saying is that you, you ran your insurance as your estimates, the insurance estimate comes back and you feel that there's really, there's literally no wiggle room. You just got to figure out how to fix the car the way the insurance company is, is writing it. Is that, is that correct?

Yeah. Oh yeah. And I can, I can do a demo a day where I demo. Like I'll put my metaglasses on and we'll. Well watch what an insurance company does that they refuse to talk to me in person. They don't like it. They do not like talking to me on the phone because they know I record it. They do not like emailing me. They like talking to other estimators that are here and then passing a message on to me. I try to catch them when I can, but they're like, dude, State Farm will literally do a drive by in my parking lot, pull into my gate without anybody knowing, not check in, take pictures of the car and leave without telling us. Happens all the time.

So, so are you dealing with at your shop, are you dealing with in person adjusters all the time or are you dealing with the desk jockey that's somewhere corporate? Yeah.

So when it does go to field, if it gets to the wrong team, it's really, really tough to navigate.

So you, and you, you try pushing back and you're not getting, you're not winning any single argument at all. Is that what you're saying? Not one single.

Sometimes I'll win. Like I can remind State Farm to run Opus on a car. Sometimes I have to do that. I'm like, did you run this through Opus? Can I at least get the Opus? Whatever they're gonna pay. I'm like, it's not gonna cover everything, but it's something. But I mean, dude, I can, I can pull up files. My attorney's got a lot of this stuff where I have just got documentation out that just wazoo and I've got photos of it being done. Like I fixed it the right way in process photos and send it all in. And I verbatim, I have it recorded. I have an insurance adjuster saying, I'm tired of you asking for forgiveness instead of permission. I'm not paying for this.

So, so what, what do you feel about the idea of if you were to, to get in front of that customer before the insurance company is talking to them and you were to say, have a thing that said, here's where the insurance company is going to push back. Here's where they're going to tell you they're not paying for things, but here's why your vehicle needs this, why we say your vehicle needs this. It's not me, it's the manufacturer of all that documentation. And then you copy the insurance company. Do you think that will flip the script at all so that now they're playing defense on that they're just gonna.

Still deny it the money to pay out of pocket? If your demographic is not a high enough echelon of people to. Because I have a very big mix in Tulsa, Oklahoma, I've got, just down the street there's a couple of $10 million mansions. And then on literally the other side of the street there's like dilapidated rental houses that have been there for 40 years and are in desperate need of roof the state farm won't pay for. And so like we've got just all over the place out here. Like there's not just one demographic but. And like when you run into the people that don't have $5,000 burning a hole in their pocket to pay for collision repair and say that person's paycheck to paycheck, how are you going to help them? Are you gonna sit on your soapbox and say I'm only gonna fix, you know, the, the rich people's cars and I'm only going to help them because they have the money to help themselves.

Yeah, I understand that but so I, I was at the, the HD Repair Forum last year in Texas and there was a guy there that works for 3M. He was a body shop insurance adjuster that then went to work for the insurance company, rose through the ranks and was like some sort of supervisor level thing where he had those desk jockey guys beneath him and his whole thing was he, he said literally spelled out how it works. On the insurance side they have certain. Well now it's like software that they have. The insurance company has software that just scrubs every estimate. I mean I'm sure you probably submitted an estimate and when the seconds you've got something back like I've heard come.

In and show me their computers and their process on how to. I've got, I've got that are. And so I've seen the software, how it Scrubs on. Scrubs on ccc.

Yeah. So it's looking to cut certain things. What he told, what he said is that a lot of times what they actually need is proper documentation. It's not that they don't want to get it paid for, but I think they're playing the, the averages game that most people aren't going to push back. They're just going to take it. They're just, okay, this is all. Insurance company is going to pay and that's the end of it. But he said that a lot of times if you can give that adjuster documentation for the pieces that you're, you're saying that you need the difference that not always, but it'll win some of that. So my, my position is that if you could close that gap to where it's a small enough amount that your customer pays, then you can decide, I'm going to give this to you, Mr. Customer, my dime. Or, or you're going to have to pay for it. But if you could somehow close the gap. But that only works if. If you're like, that's the whole premise behind Reclaimer. The, the, the pushback side. The, the, the is the, the ability to look at every single line item, write a rebuttal with documentation that goes back to that insurance company to get them to pay for it. Like, hey, this was missing in ccc. This is a. Not included. This is this, this is this. To get that, to get that gap down so that maybe it's down to, from, from 4900 to like $1500. And then you can decide what to do there. You can get creative with your customer and say, well, you know, we could reuse this emblem here. We could do this thing and then you can try to get it, get it down as far as you want or just not do it and get him to hold up, assign a whole harmless. Like that's a business decision at that point, what you want to do. But, but you're saying that no matter what you do, you never get, you never win any, any argument back. Because that's not what I hear.

That's extreme. Because I am, I've got tunnel vision right now because I think of all the losses.

Right? Yeah.

I'm not thinking of all my wins. I have wins every day.

Okay.

You know, like, like there's a lot of like Hagerty claims. You guys are awesome. Chubb's claims department, you guys are.

Okay.

There has, there's stuff that rolls through here, but when I, when I talk, remember I told you what files I deal with on a daily basis.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dumpster fires only. Yeah. Every file that comes to my desk is already being denied by my primary estimators. So we've already got friction from company policy to the insurance company and what they want to write.

Okay.

Then once it gets to me and my estimators are like, I tried everything I can. I gave them all the documents that you said. I ran the scripts, I did the AI prompts. You know, when that's integrated, they're still not paying it.

Okay. Yeah.

So you're talking to the guy that doesn't see the wins. Like, yeah, the bank account might look okay, but yeah, okay, this wouldn't be in business if we didn't have wins with these insurance.

So that's what. That's.

Yeah.

I'm glad we clarified that because it was starting to worry me. I thought you were going to say that. No, it doesn't matter what you say. You can tell them that. That the car needs paint. They said, we don't pay for paint. You know, like, that's an opposite. That's an extreme. But, you know, is where we're headed because.

Yeah, about what? How insurance works. Okay. Insurance is actually a reimbursement contract.

Yes.

For insurance to be valid, you have to incur a loss. For a claim to be valid, you have to incur a loss. I think it's my opinion that an insurance company is actually like the claims department. And how we handle claims, a lot of is a courtesy, in a sense, to their policyholder to pay for damage and not make you pay for it out of pocket. Okay. So per the policy, the insurance company really only owes what you pay. It's a reimbursement contract. So for you to incur a loss, you have to pay something and get a receipt for it. Like, hey, I lost X amount of dollars. And so when an insurance company says, oh, just bill the customer. Like, yeah, like, when you boil it down to its roots, this entire thing is billed to the customer. That's why your estimates say the customer's name and not State Farm or Geico or Allstate. Like, like, all the bills are to the customer, and they are paying it on the customer's behalf. And so, you know, an insurance company can absolutely walk into your shop and say, I don't pay for paint. I don't pay for frame time. Our body labor rate is $10 an hour. Our paint rate is $5 an hour. Our materials rate is $3 an hour, and we don't pay Based off of any estimating system, we just shoot from the hip. We're going to write it down. That is 100% legal. They are completely within their rights to do that as an adjuster. Now is it unreasonable? Yes. Would a court of law blow them to pieces? Absolutely.

Right, Right.

But there's nothing in that policy that says they can't do that.

Yeah.

So yeah, like this is a free, like they get to do whatever they want to do. Yeah. Every time you get a win, like, yeah, that's a win. Because really they could just not give you anything and then you make you charge the customer and then you, they get reimbursed. But insurance doesn't operate like that. Yeah, the average American doesn't have $15,000 sitting in their savings account ready to pay for collision repair and they get reimbursed by the insurance.

Have you ever tried any of the, like the Klarna or the paint the payment option things to help your customers pay?

Yeah. Financing through a firm and whatnot?

Right.

I've had a couple of customers that want to do that and I, I mean I've even done. It's a friends and family deal. But you know, in house financing is sometimes an option if you know the person and sure, you're not going to lose your butt on it. But yes, in house financing is, is absolutely an option and it is a way to show on paper a loss. But then again, getting an attorney to represent you in property damage is becoming harder and harder. And now the DOI is pushing law to, or administrative rule at least to remove an attorney's fees from any insurance claim related action. They're trying to reduce litigation by saying we're not going to let the attorneys get paid for taking on cases. So now these attorneys are just not going to take your property damage cases on any accord because all the money that's awarded goes back to replacing the property that was damaged. And now they can't even get attorney's fees. So they have to build it, pad it in somehow and you're just not going to do that. It just doesn't happen. So yeah, I mean it's getting more and more difficult. And this will like all of these, these brick walls that you hit. Okay. This is where being the entrepreneur and being the go getter helps. Because you hit a brick wall, you don't fall on your face, you find a way around.

Right.

And every single brick wall that I have hit has always led me to legislation. Every time I talk to somebody who's like, build a customer, build A customer. I'm like, what are you going to do when they don't have the money? How are you going to help them? Do you really not care about the customer? Are you going to let them go to the shop, you know, is going to hack her car up with crappy parts or are you going to fight for. Oh, I don't have time to do that. I'm a business owner. Okay, cool. Go do your business stuff. I have better things to do. I, I'm going to work. What I value is helping the customer. And if you, if you really, really push and you put you, you start pushing through these brick walls or walk around them until you get to the next one, you're going to hit a really tall brick wall. When you get to the legislative step, when it's time to put legislation, it takes a lot of resources and time. Yeah, but it's doable. It's in my Facebook post. I say it's borderline impossible, but it's not impossible. You know what is impossible? Getting State Farm to pay for full blown, you know, material invoices. That is impossible. I, I have done it to the end of time. And even when you charge the customer, they still won't reimburse the customer. I've had them, I've had them go, I haven't had them go all the way to court, but I've had them pay out of pocket for it. Still didn't get reimbursed. So. And that makes me look like a butt for saying, oh yeah, you can probably get reimbursed if you just pay for it out of pocke pocket. You know, these are the steps you have to go to. You might end up in court. You get a 1500 material invoice that they, you know, shorted on a tri coat, you know, 46 volts, Mazda color. And you know, the, the, if you spray basf, you know all about the cherry red toner prices, it's astronomical.

I have one of those vehicles in my driveway with the Mazda Crystal red.

You ever gotta repaint something on it? Man, a bottle of toner this big is like 1500 bucks.

Yeah.

But I, you know, when, when you ask me how shops can you, you know, what's the one thing that I do? Yeah, it's pushing for the customer. And ultimately it lands at legislation. It lands not litigation because the litigation aspect is getting rid of bad law. That's what I'm doing. And in Oklahoma, you can't litigate for a customer. We are bound by some really stupid laws that Keep me out of court on behalf of customers. If I had my time in court, I wouldn't even push for any. I would just take every single one of these claims to court. But I can't get standing. Yeah, that's the problem. You know, they're like, you know, a contractor cannot pursue an insurance company based on da, da, da, da, da. And, you know, XYZ now House Bill 1084, Assignment of Benefits is null and void. And even more things that keep me out of the courtroom. They don't want me there because I'm the only one that can articulate why they need to pay it. Yeah, the customer doesn't know about all these airbag diagnostics and steering and this and that. And the third, the, the, the people that know are the people that wear shirts like this that sit in the shop all day.

Yeah.

And so those are the people that need to be in court saying, this is required. I'm a decorated, you know, certified person. I've got. This is the reason why I'm allowed to say what I'm saying. This is why I'm saying what I'm saying. Here's the proof. When you go in as an expert witness in a court case, something, you know, for a repair dispute, you, you like, that's the shop's job to testify this stuff or potentially an IA if they're, you know, have their wits about them. And so I, I don't know, man.

So the path, so, so the pathway, so to kind of stick with my format here of, you know, like, if you were to teach a master class in this, like, let's say, you know, you know, I get this podcast out there and somebody in, I don't know, let's pick a state that, you know, I don't know, Arizona or something, and they're fired up, they're like, you know what? Enough is enough. I got to do something here. And I'm going to get a couple of shop owners together. We're going to, we're going to start having, you know, meetings about this, you know, whether they have a state autobody association that has any kind of strength or not, you know, because that's a whole nother thing that'll ruffle feathers. Even mentioning state auto body associations. A lot of people feel differently about those, the strength of those. But I, I, I'm a shop owner. I've had enough. I wanna, I'm inspired by Peyton. What, what is it that you're trying to do and what are the steps that the next guy should follow? Like if you're to my master class example, like if you were to teach a master class in, in this topic, what, what, what goes in that class? Like what, what do you need to cover in it? So what's your. Let's start. Start. It's two parts. So first part is what is your ultimate aim? To get legislation on the books like they're trying to do right now in Georgia and in other states to change the laws. Okay.

On the books. Get it? Okay, okay. But put some heat on it. You know, make the insurance company spend some money to fight it. See how much pushback you're going to get. And educate. Education is key. Just like you're educating your customer every time you drop a vehicle off. Educate your Paul, your politician on the issue. Be able to articulate it. You go home and talk to your wife and I'm sure she already knows all about it it but say, hey, I would like to, you know, do some mock, you know, encounter with you and pretend like you don't know anything about this. I'm going to try to articulate this in a way that somebody who's never fixed a car report before seen a body shop in their life understands it. Practice, practice with friends. Start working on your sales pitch essentially and how you are going to articulate the issue that's in your industry without getting too technical, keeping it brief. You know, politicians time is, is it's tough to attain sometimes. So when you get it, you want to make sure that it's powerful and you get good at articulating the issue in the industry. Educate. Look up your area's senator. If you didn't vote then look them up and figure out who it is. Find their email. It's really easy to find. We have AI chat GPT. Type in their name or just type in chat gbt. Give me the contact information for ex senator in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. It's going to pull up their name, their phone number, their email, their office address, a picture of them, a picture of their kids. Like dude, these guys run for campaign. Their information is everywhere, right? Hit them up, call their secretary. If it's a senator, you're going to have a secretary at your state capitol that's going to take the call, leave them a message, they'll call you back and say I really want to schedule some time to talk with them on the phone and then articulate it on the phone. And then when they have a meet and greet or they're hosting an event, show up and be like, hey, we spoke on the phone this is how, you know, I'm from the auto body association in X city or X State or, you know, thank you for taking the time to talk with me last time. You know, I really want to sit down and talk some more about what we can do in the state to fix this problem. They will listen. You are a constituent. That is their job to listen and, and so navigate every state's land. Political landscape is going to be different, but start pushing and start talking to lobbyists. You know, if your association has the money, get the money together to hire a lobbyist like Georgia did to really start pushing the matter at the capitol. You are going to have to take time out of your day to do this.

Yeah.

If you have got a hundred whips outside and you are an owner operator and you can't leave your desk, it's probably not your job to do this. You're probably not the best fit person for the job. But if you've got somebody in that association that's willing to do it, put in the time. Or if you can, hire a manager for, you know, six months to a year or start looking at delegating tasks out to free up some time in your day, get better at time management and find the time to put the effort into a coffee or go to a dinner. If you could score a dinner, great. You know, like, you get an intimate setting with somebody where you can really convey a message and the issue at hand. But just be friendly. Make friends with the person. Find out who they are, what they stand for, what their beliefs are. You know, like, be normal and, and then pitch the issue. We're shop owners. We're not multi, multi millionaire corporate MSO owners. Our neighbors are the ones that we're fixing cars for. I don't live in like, the upper echelon of, of Miami like I, I live downtown Broken Arrow, and I fix my neighbor's cars. And there's like, nothing special about us other than the fact that we fix cars for a living. And so we're the same. The constituents are the neighbors, and so we're helping everybody. And when you pitch that, the, the safety matter and the airbag timing issue, if you can show the Honda airbag timing video that's on YouTube, it was published in, like, 2014.

Yeah, the watermelon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's great.

Yeah. So, so then, so then what's the ask? So you get the guy, you get, you get time with them. What's the asking? Sponsor bill. And then, and then he'll say, what? Let me get back to you. And let me look at that. Do you need like, do you need like 10 shop owners also asking at the same time or so? Because that's what you told me.

Doing this in Oklahoma right now.

Yeah.

For the, as far as passing a bill, the, the Auto Body association is working on some administrative rules. I am personally working on something that is on the, the legislative side, that's administrative rule with the doi, Something that's along the lines of what Georgia is doing. And so I'm, I'm in the, the probing phase where I'm trying to find out who's going to support and who's not. And Oklahoma's got a lot of insurance agents that are in the Senate. And, and so that's how we ended up with the storage, you know, laws and, and the things that regulate the body shops to a T. A couple of insurance agents, Lonnie Paxton and Mark Tedford, got together and passed some laws that, that tighten up on us, thinking that that's going to reduce claims costs and help everybody. But I mean, it's choking out the independence, you know, and allowing insurance companies to leave cars for 45, 50 days at a time, and it doesn't cost them any money.

So, so, so you, so you've met with your senators.

Yeah, yeah. General.

And what do they say? What are they saying to you? That, hey, they want to sponsor it.

Oh, yeah. They're like, let's get together, let's do more work on this. You know, you, you would be surprised what chat GPT will do as far as, like, political research. Don't use chat GPT to finalize anything. You absolutely want a whole lot more than chat GPT. But as far as framework goes and like, educating yourself and reading through what a bill would look like in your state and who the best sponsors might be based on their backgrounds, AI can help you with a lot of that. Yeah.

So that's what I was gonna ask you. So what do you need next? Like you, so you've, you've personally spearheaded this thing for the state of Oklahoma. I'm sure there's a lot of shop owners in the state of Oklahoma. I wonder, do they even know that you're doing this? Would they be. Would they. Do you need their help? Do you want them to join you in this cause? Is this a call to action to other shop owners in Oklahoma? So, so then, like, what is. What do you need? What do you need next? And I really, I don't know. I mean, I, I don't, I wouldn't even. Couldn't even imagine having to pass any kind of law. So you've met with these guys. They said, let's get together. Are they actually putting time on a calendar? And so they are. So.

So you're seventh? Is my next meeting 27th of this month.

And so what do you. What do you need for that? Like, what are. What are you. How are you prepping for that?

Oh, I just go in and tell the story.

Okay.

I've told this story enough times to. Where I can tell it to a caveman and he'll understand it. I mean, you. You. I try to dumb it down as much as I can. And with you, you're technical, you've been in the shop space. So I can get into technicalities of things, but really touching on hot glue and fenders on and airbag timing and how important it is and showing the John Eagle case and referencing state that has been, you know, experienced loss of life or extreme injury as a result of improperly repaired vehicles is a good way to grab attention and then just pitch a solution and how it can benefit everyone.

So do you. Do you come armed with, like, heavy statistics to show, you know, where you've kind of done the math, things like that, or. I mean, like, if. No, you just. You just.

High level, high level.

Here's what's at stake. How. How do you get them if they've got the insurance companies always in there, how do you get them to side with you and to the point where. And then I can, like, like, the. The Georgia bill is very thorough and thought out. Like, what's in there? Yeah, I can't imagine one person got there. So I'm. I'm wondering, like, what. I know you said they hired a lobbyist. Like, you know, I'm sure that they've gotten some sort of, like, what do we want in this bill? You know, or is it really just up to Peyton to figure all that out? You know, like, would they. Do they want more shop owners at that point? Absolutely.

So what you want to do is ultimately get your association to. To host like, a small lunch on, or, you know, some sort of, you know, speaker event where. It's in Oklahoma. We have Bricktown Brewery in Main street in Oklahoma. That's where the Auto Body association does a lot of its, like, little gatherings or your cocktail hour. Invite the politician up to. To meet everybody in the association, you know, and you guys just talk and. And they spend an hour there, you know, get them drinks, whatever, and then, you know, everybody's going to be pretty much singing the same tune. Like, yeah, this is the issues that we're having and thanking them for, for helping and, you know, give the, the. As far as the, you know, when you say spearhead, this cannot be done with just one person through and through.

Yeah.

Like, even if I was, you know, I ran for office and got elected, I still couldn't do this by myself.

Right.

You can open the door for other people to come in behind you.

Yeah.

So set that example.

Right. So if he says to you, peyton, listen, I, I had, I got screwed on a collision repair myself one time and affected me or whatever.

Right.

I have back injury from it. Blah, whatever. He's like, I'm on your side. I want to move forward with this. What, what's, what is the next move? Do you then start calling other owners in the state and you guys say, all right, guys, we need to put together what this. We need to craft this bill. Like, who does that?

I mean, I spend a lot of time with chat GPT and playing with it. And so it knows a lot about what it should be and what it should look like.

Sure.

I've given it other bills and I just gave it the Georgia bill, you know, letting it puke something out.

Yeah.

But you, you can put together what a bill would look like and you can generate it and you could pass it on to the, the representative that you're talking to and say, this is a draft, a rough draft. Ultimately, the, the, the legislator is going to pass that on to, you know, they're going to make their tweaks and they're going to pass it on to the, the attorneys that are out there that, that draft these things and you're just giving them the framework and what needs to be on the bill and they're going to redraft it for you. But the, the power of Chad GPT, you can literally just say, make a bill for the, you know, state of Oklahoma. What would that look like? Something that is probably close to along the lines of what you need that do not just click send by any means, you know, when you're doing this stuff. But it gives you an idea of what does a bill look like in the state of Michigan or in the state of Oklahoma. It'll pull that framework and, and so you can talk to your, your senator and your senator that was elected, if they've been a senator before. And they, you know, they're seasoned. They're. They know how to do this. A lot of them carry like 8 to 10 bills per legislative session. They are filing machines. There's hundreds and hundreds of bills that are filed every single year.

Right.

Only a few of them actually make it through.

See, that's. Yeah. That's the other piece to this too is getting it to the next steps and the next steps or even as far as like the Georgia one.

Rinse and repeat a few times. Yeah.

Like this is a years. This is years. Long process, you know.

Absolutely. But if you don't start now.

Yeah.

You're.

You're just gonna be worse. Yeah, yeah. Five years from now, you're gonna be worse off.

I wish I would have started this three years ago back when I bought the place, but I didn't know that this industry was such a good crapshoot. Whenever I bought the business.

Right.

I needed that much fixing. I'm like, wow, we gotta pass laws for this. That's crazy. Like, that was not my first solution. I down all these roads of charging customers and this, that and third, and there's like 50 something shops in my area and like 24 of us are independent. There is a very healthy blend of MSO and independent. And so like there's no market like you. It's a, it's a war out here to get customers in the door like you want.

Yeah.

People are. There's a lot of body shops in Tulsa. Just look it up on Google Maps. Body shop in Tulsa. Look at how many stinking shops there are.

It's insane.

And they're not all Gerbers and Calibers. There's a lot of independence. I just. There's a big one that just drops called Swift, the second biggest body shop in the nation.

I've spoken to them. Yeah, I've spoken to Swift. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, like they're right down the street from me. The people that I'm. I say competition. They're my neighbors.

Yeah.

I don't look at any independent repair as my direct competition because ultimately it takes all of us to get the change that helps the customer in the end.

So, Pena, this is going to be a. This is a long one, so it's going to be a nightmare to edit this. But I do want to ask you my ending question here. So who should I. I've been asking people who should I have next on my podcast, like, is there anybody you recommend that you think does something that is really stand out? Like it could be anything. Like the way they, the way they do their bookkeeping or the way they organize the parts department or, you know, whatever. Is there anybody that you've kind of experienced that you're like, oh, you need to go talk to so and so about such and such that an owner would kind of find interesting. Anything come to mind?

Auto Body association president Jessica Stegner. She's awesome. She'll talk to you just as much as I will. Brian Shellum with Advanced Automotive Equipment. He's very knowledgeable. He's a legislative chair of the Auto Body Association. He's kind of who I'm under there. And he's very knowledgeable. He's very, very experienced in the political landscape and give you a whole lot more information when it comes to how to navigate getting a bill passed, connecting with senators. He spends a lot of time at the Capitol. He's also in the education space, like schools and whatnot. I know he's done a lot of, a lot of good there. I don't know. He's way more equipped to talk about this stuff. You're the first person I've actually sat down and had a pow wow about what I'm doing. And so.

Well, maybe, hopefully this will get the word out. Maybe more people will approach you and say, hey, Peyton, I heard what you're doing. I mean, I got to promote my podcast a little bit better than I am, but I'm going to work on that. But, you know, if this gets out there, you might be surprised. You know, somebody might pick it up and just say, you know, it's, it goes in our newsletter and our newsletter hits every state, so, you know, you might be surprised. In fact, if it's okay with you, I'll put your, your contact information in the, the show notes so that people can reach out to you. Maybe they've got ideas of what should go into a bill or help you pick up some of the load. So it's not all on you to do this, you know.

Absolutely, yeah, I'm all for it. And lastly, if you can get Larry or Kristen Felder on here. Oh, gosh, they're great to talk to. Yeah, I, I have never had the opportunity to actually communicate with him on the phone or face to face, but we've, you know, talked through text and talked through, through Facebook. They're so knowledgeable and they are just some, some veterans of the industry you.

Need to come out to. I don't know what's on their schedule as far as. So Kristen and I met way, way back at the beginning of Collision Hub. We were sitting next to each other at a Collision Industry Council meeting. I was just getting my marketing agency off the ground, and she said, hi, I'm Kristen and I'm with Collision Hub. We're a Facebook for collision repair. That was her original intent, a social media platform. So back. Back. Way back when early digital days of social media and everything, people were trying to figure out like, is there a Facebook for this or is there a I Yelp for that? And so that was her original. Her original thing was to. To get all the collision talking in one spot. And she's been very successful at it. You know, like, it's. She's the voice of the collision industry in my opinion. But yeah, we go. We go way back. I've done all of her. I was always her marketing guy that she recommended. I still do her C20 group for marketing. So. But. But I, I would recommend if you ever want to meet with Kristen is if they're ever teaching one of their classes live and Larry too go. Go attend one of their classes. They'll. They'll definitely. There's usually like an after. After event dinner or something like that for everybody that goes. So that.

That's the.

If you ever want to kind of kick back and have a whiskey with the two of them, that's probably the easiest way to do it. So.

Yeah, absolutely. We need to connect and. And do that. That sounds great.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I hangman. I appreciate you on the podcast. I'm sorry I talked. You're off. I don't know how long it's been. Almost.

Almost two hours. But I'll. I'll down. Obviously we'll go stay. All of it will stay in here. We. We'll cut to the good stuff. But. But I, you know, but. But thanks. Thanks for being on here. Not you know, I. I'll let you know as soon as I get it out.