21. Rachel Ruby, Divorce Attorney, on Moving from Divorce to Bliss

Good morning. And you are listening to Visible Panty Lines, AKA vpl, the pod. And these are transparent stories of encouragement, inspiration and overcoming adversity. I am Janae Luciani Sena and your host, hostess with the mostest.

Of this pod. And every episode, I really try to focus on really, we've had men, so not just inspirational women, but really people that personify inspiration or can provide some sort of encouragement out there, be it in business or in life. And I'm really excited today to be talking with Rachel Ruby, mainly because she is an expert on a topic that so many people can relate to, which is divorce. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that when most people enter into divorce now, also you're the author of Divorce to Bliss, so you have a book, but we'll talk about that. I just want to mention that off the top. So I think most people, when they're embarking on this really terrible thing, even if it's like, ultimately a good thing in your life while you're going through it, it's kind of terrible. So I think when most people are embarking on it, they really feel, like, alone and don't really have a place to go or a resource. So I think that being able to provide you and your commentary is really going to help a lot of people out there.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, first of all. And yes, you are correct, divorce is very difficult thing to go through. And there's a lot of negativity, a lot of shame, you know, all those kinds of emotions that pop up.

Mm. Lots of emotions.

Now. Like the stats. We've all read the stats, like 50% of marriages end in divorce. I think now it's actually a little bit lower the last time I looked it up, but still, that's a heck of a lot of people getting divorced. I've been through a divorce myself, and I. And I have lots of friends and family members who have been as well. And I think whether you've been through, like, a divorce that is super traumatizing or a divorce that maybe just goes smoothly, which I don't think like any of them do, but whether, you know, what degree, I guess, of your divorce, it can definitely be traumatic.

Exactly. Exactly. And I think with divorce, you know, there are so, like I said, there are so many negative feelings and big emotions involved. Anger, frustration, hurt, and oftentimes even depression. And starting the healing process is really difficult for people. A lot of people want to heal. They want to get through the dark tunnel and into the light. And have this wonderful, happy life, but they just don't know how. So I actually. I actually coach people on that. And. And that's what the book is about. It's all about how to heal from divorce, where to get started, and things that you can do to make a beautiful new life for yourself.

And that's true. I think that one thing that I always say to people that are going through divorce, as someone who's been through it, is there's light at the end of the tunnel. And just like that statement alone seems to give them, like, you can see it in their eyes, they have a little bit of hope, you know, that maybe they had before. So I think with you, yet you have the legal expertise, which is amazing, because a lot of it really is legal stuff. But to have you incorporate that emotional element as well is amazing. So what made you kind of go from being the attorney and someone that was dealing with the legal stuff to being able to guide people with the emotional stuff, too?

Yeah, I mean, in the book, I don't really focus on any of the legal stuff. The book is really about a journey, learning how to rewire your mind, body, and spirit after coming out of this. This marriage, it's like you're separating the. The me from the we. And it's really. Marriage is almost like a death, you know, and it's a life. It's a life ending. It's a union that's ending. And now you have to go on as your own individual person. So it's really hard to. For a lot of people to learn how to start doing that. And really, this book came from my own journey through divorce. After 27 years of marriage, 30 years together and two kids, and, you know, all that and just deciding, just really doing a deep, deep dive into me and figuring out how to move forward and create this beautiful life that I envisioned for myself. And in that process, I realized that there are so many tools that need to be implemented. And it's not just a question of, you know, doing one thing and then another thing, but really it's kind of a mix of all of these tools to start, like I said, you know, rewiring your life, rewiring your mind, your body, your spirit, and. And at some point when you do the work, you will start to feel this incredible happiness almost descending upon you. I mean, and, you know, there's no time frame as to when that might happen, but you will feel it if you are doing the work. And it is the most incredible experience.

No, I definitely agree with everything you're saying. And I think that's so important. And I, I do think, like, that adds an extra element. Like you can get so easily wrapped up in all of the crap that a divorce comes with. Right. Lack of a better term, like the who is getting or whatever ends.

Right.

Especially with kids involved and all this, like, stuff that comes with it. And I think a lot of it is for the woman, like, just kind of having to face yourself in the mirror too, and be like, okay, you know, this is what happened. This is how it went down. Is my life now. Like, now let's focus on moving forward. That's where a lot of women get stuck. You can easily get stuck, I feel like.

Exactly, exactly. And what happens, what tends to happen for a lot of people is they go into this victim mentality where, you know, there's so much negativity that they start, you know, I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy. How am I going to do this? How am I going to date? How am I going to support myself? Where am I going to live? You know, and once you get into this victim mode, you know, everything kind of starts to bombard you. And your mind is finding more and more things. So what we tell our minds is what we're going to receive more of. So if we're constantly in a victim mentality and we're telling ourselves, oh, I, I'm just. Things, all these things are happening to me. I, I'm, I'm angry and I'm, you know, scared, and I, how am I going to support myself? And all these things, we're just inviting more of that because our mind wants us, our brains want us to be happy. So if we're telling our brains, you know, the law of attraction, if we're telling our brains, you know, all these neg, those are just going to keep happening. It's almost like if you ever had a friend who was. Every time you talked to them, they had some major problem happening. And, you know, we've all had that, you know, oh, this happened. Oh, that happened. It starts to get exhausting because especially as women, we tend to want to fix and help people because that's as the caregiver and the nurturer. But when we go into that ourselves, it can really pull us down. And we need to understand how to get out of that, because if we can't get out of that victim mentality, we cannot move forward. And there's a couple ways to get out of that. Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to share some of what I talked about that people can kind of do on their own. So a couple great places to start. Because again, so many people don't know where to start. How do I start healing? Like I want to heal, but I don't know how. And so a couple great places. Two things that I can, can give somebody and I tell my coaching clients, one is to just start with gratitude. It's that simple. And realizing what you're grateful for, even though you're going through this terrible trauma. And again, whether it was amicable or whether it was horrible or anywhere in between, it's still a trauma.

Yes.

So, so, so it's being grateful. We all know that we should be grateful. And if we think about it, we can all think of things for which we are grateful. But when I talk about gratitude, it means really express expressing the gratitude and feeling the gratitude. And I think for me, the best way to do this is every morning. First thing I do when I wake, I brush my teeth and then I go into meditation. But before I do the meditation, I close my eyes and I think of all the things for which I am grateful. And this huge smile every day just comes to my face and it's like this wave of happiness just goes through my body because I'm thinking of my family and my friends and the life I've created and you know, the, the nature and the beauty in the world and the beautiful people and you know, all these things and I just, yeah, kind of list them off. And it is such an incredible thing because if you do that every day and then also at night before you go to bed, you don't have to go through your whole list, but pick at least one thing that made you feel grateful during your day. It could be as simple as, like, I had a great meeting with, you know, such and such and whatever it is. And if you constantly infusing this gratitude into your life, you will start to feel a difference.

Yeah. And I think like when you're going through something that's so life changing and traumatic and like you mentioned, it's not just your personal life or your relationship status that's changing, it's your financial situation. It might be where you live. Like it's so many huge changes. So I think really hard for people to feel grateful. Like you're thinking, Yep. You know, and even if you were the catalyst for the divorce and it wasn't the other exactly necessarily, it's still like you're, it's hard to, you know, that's not definitely not the first thing that comes to mind. Oh, I'm so grateful for.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. But that's, that's one of the hardest things to do. And that's why I say it is so important to focus on gratitude and to express it. Because even, you know, like, someone said to me, rachel, I said, anyone can be grateful. And they said, that's not true. A prisoner can't be grateful. They're trapped in a, in a cell. And I said, well, that's not true because they still have their mind. They can imagine and they can. They can visualize things happening, their life change. I mean, we all have something for which to be grateful. I mean, we're just grateful that we woke up and we're breathing. I mean, think of all the people that, you know, died yesterday. You know, so it's. You can start with those big things and then eventually you start like, I'm grateful that I'm healthy. I'm grateful that I'm, you know, this. I have this roof above my head. I'm grateful for my beautiful children. I mean, there's always something. I don't care who you are, what you're going through, there's something to be grateful about. And so the job is every morning to find those things. And you'll find that as you go along in your journey, you'll find more things to be grateful for and express. And as long as you're continuing to express, express that, you really start to feel a difference within you, which is fantastic because you're changing your mindset. Right?

Yeah. That can be applied to so many things in life, not just exactly.

Right, exactly.

And that's like, I mean, I'm a big believer in Law of Attraction and Asking It Is Given and a very big fan of Esther Hicks and, you know, Gabby Bernstein and all these people that are out there sort of delivering a similar message. Even I sometimes will fall into the trap of, you know, like, it's steamrolls, like one negative thought into another and another. You can physically make yourself ill. Like, I ended up with a blood clot and, you know, going through my divorce and I was under so much stress. And I, like, kept thinking at the time, like, I believe I caused, like, it to some extent on myself because I was like, it was just that constant eating away at you negativity.

Yeah. And that's, and that's, that's the perfect example of being in the victim, in a victim mentality. Because that is exactly what happens when you, when you focus on one thing. It starts to snowball into so many others. And it's really hard to get unstuck. And you have, you cannot move forward and heal until you get out of that victim state. So another great tool for that is forgiveness. And most people, you know, part of it is forgiving the ex spouse forgive or the, you know, soon to be ex spouse and, and realizing that even though you might feel this anger and this hurt toward that person and towards this marriage ending, and oftentimes it's very negative, a lot of negative emotions, focusing on that in the past is not going to help you move forward. So instead you really need to be present and focus on right now and focus on who you are. Because until you figure out who you are, you can't create your new life. So the other part of forgiveness is especially hard for a lot of people is self forgiveness. And that's a huge part too. And we need to learn to forgive ourselves and realize that it's okay. Divorce is okay. We are going to be okay. We are going to move forward and create this amazing, beautiful life. But society has programmed us, society, culture, religion, family, really that divorce is bad, that you should, once you get married, you should be married forever. You know, your most traditional vows, they killed us part heart. And we need to understand that by divorcing, whether we were the one who wanted the divorce or it was mutual or the other person, it's really an opportunity for us to become who we want to be. And if we start looking at it that way and forgiving ourselves for all of these things that we've been taught most of our lives about divorce, I mean, I had a, I had a neighbor told me that God was going to come down upon me and make me, give me an illness for getting divorced. And I just looked at her and I said, and I said, that's intense. God loves me and wants me to be happy. Because it's only when we're happy that we can find our purpose. Our purpose in life is like to serve others. We can't serve others. And the planet and other, you know, species, we can't do that unless we're happy.

Right?

Connectedness, hey, that's another piece of advice that I would give to someone going through a divorce. Don't listen to other people unless they're listening to you. It's a different story, you know, but don't listen to other people because other people will just really make you feel like shit. Even worse than.

So true.

That was my experience for sure. It's like everyone has an opinion on it, which makes it really Hard. And there is that societal stigma, too. Like, especially for being a woman. And it's just so funny because I just remember, like, everyone had an opinion on it, and people would say things. Even like longtime friends would say things like, oh, well, Bill's such a nice guy. And I'm like, what?

What?

You know.

Right, right. Yeah. And that's really. Another. Another tool is surrounding yourself with the right people, because.

So true.

Even the people who we call our friends. And so all these tools, they kind of. You can see how they're all connected. But even the people who we call friends, you know, they might. We might have one or two, or we might have a family, and they might say, why did you do that? Or, you know, you should do this and you should do that, and. Right. I mean, we really need to focus on the positive, people. And a lot of. A lot of my clients will go and they'll join these, like, divorce groups on Facebook, and I tell them, do not join those groups. Look through them and look at the comments. And if it's all people bagging on their ex spouse and talking about, no, no, no, no, no. You know, that's either.

Right.

You don't want that. That. Because you need. It's like you need to infuse this positivity. So a great thing to do is to just really pick something you've always wanted to do, something you love, whether it's, you know, piano lessons, Scott jumping out of an airplane, learning a language, whatever it is, and. And sign up and go do it. And not from your house and your computer, like, physically go and do something maybe once a week, maybe, you know, however, and try to make. Try to do it regularly, but sign up for something, go do it. And because you're doing something you enjoy, all the other people around you are also enjoying it. And those people can be your support network. You might meet a new friend, you might. You know, you never know. So that's a really, really good thing to. To do also.

Well, and it gets you out of your own head a little bit too.

For sure. For sure.

Which is the biggest.

And for sure. And. And, you know, I also talk a lot about letting go, which kind of goes along with that infusing positivity because there's. There's definitely the need sometimes to let go of people. Ideal circumstances. I mean, you're letting go of a marriage, you're letting go of a spouse, but you also need to let go of the people who are bringing negativity into your life. So. And I talk about how to do that. It's not like you can let go of your mom and your dad, but there's. There's definitely boundaries you can set.

Yes, absolutely. My. Actually, the last guest that I talked to, I don't know if she's going to. She'll probably air before years, but Irene Nakamura, what was really interesting with her is she's a Japanese American woman, and she was basically told who she was going to marry. So then when it came time for her to. She did stay with him for 15 years. And she, you know, had heard that she. When it came time to divorce him, of course, like, her family didn't agree with it because that wasn't what she was supposed to do. And she was here to kind of serve him. And, you know, she wanted to be a businesswoman. And. And so I found that so fascinating because, I mean, it's.

It's wonderful. It's wonderful that she did that.

Yes.

Despite all the pressure.

Right. And also just knowing that, like, sometimes the people that are closest to you might not be the best, you know, support system, even though you want them to be. Yeah. So I think. And that was the case with her, where her parents, you know, her mother was like, you didn't agree with anything she was doing.

Right. And not only that, but you. You kind of mentioned, you know, just the fact that she was able to move forward and end that marriage and go on and do and be what she wanted to be. There are so many. I can't even tell you how many people I know who are in unhappy marriages. I mean, I cannot even. I. It's so many that it would take me lots of hands to count. But. And it. And it's really sad. You know, I know people who live together, basically, they're roommates. They don't sleep together. They don't, you know, they're not physical with each other. They don't do anything. It's just like, hi, I'm home. Some of these are my friends, and I say to them, you know, are you okay with that? I mean, there is so much more to you that you could be this incredible shining light. And I don't know why people do that, but it's. A lot of. It has to do with society and family and all these rules that have been, you know. Because there's no. There's no one who tells people it's okay to get divorced.

No, it's so true. Especially. I'm sorry, but especially being the woman. Like, I feel like that was an extra layer. Like, you. I Just really felt like, okay, you know, I would see men in the situation wanting to get divorced and for some reason that was just more accepted. But when you were the one that wanted, it was like, oh, gasp, you know, like, how dare she.

Yeah, women, women really get the short end of the stick in many ways in society. And, you know, I think we just have to keep staying true to ourselves and listening to our intuition and doing what makes us feel good despite what anybody else says. Because if we don't do that, we're not living our best lives and we're going to get to the end and have regrets. And that's, at least for me, that's, that's not what I want. I mean, I, you know, I'm considered mid life here and I, you know, a term I don't really like. But yeah, you know, I am living my best life. I am living my best life. I mean, it's just, it's, it's phenomenal and I, I'm just so happy and I know that it is possible to get here because I did it. So anyone who thinks, oh, if I get this divorce, I'm going to be miserable, or anyone who's afraid, you know, fear is mostly what holds people back from doing it, obviously.

And comfort level fear 100.

Yeah.

In every.

And there's been, yeah, there actually have been studies about. I find it fascinating. Been really diving in lately to the polarity issue. Like men and men and women and polarity and how they think, how they, you know, and it's really interesting. There have been studies showing that men and women respond very differently to these bad relationships where as a man will normally tend to stay as long as he's having his needs met, you know, his shelter, his, you know, I mean, if he's not getting sex, he can, he goes outside of the relationship. But as long as he's got this home and his kids are being taken care of, a lot of times men will stay more. But women, surprisingly, are more apt to leave an unhappy marriage. And especially as you get into the middle age, you see a lot of the marriages that are dissolving are because the woman initiated it, which I find fascinating and I find wonderful. Even though you and I talked about how difficult that is for a woman, I think more so, yeah. So wonderful that these women are really like taking the reins, so to speak, and, and saying, I can do that here.

Right. And not living in theory. That's, I think what I, I just know a lot of people in that same situation, like you said, where they're just like in a situationship, basically, you know. Exactly.

That's what I call it. Yeah.

Right. And it's like financial or whatever. Your, like, reason is you come up with a reason you don't want it, you know, for the kids or whatever it is. It's like you're definitely doing yourself a disservice. And I will be the first person to tell you, it is hard, like, even post divorce and like, when you get into a situation where you're a blended family, like, I wouldn't give up my family for the world, but there are definitely some dynamics that are in it that other people don't experience. And when I share things with people, they're like, wow, like, that's a lot, you know, and it's like, have the dynamic of the blended family and the other spouses and you're still co parenting and we have it, you know, sort of from all sides. So, like, yes, it's hard and, you.

Know, but life is challenging, right? I mean, life. Walk through the park. I mean, right. There's challenges everywhere. And, and it's how you, how you respond to them is what, you know, what's going to make you stronger.

I love that you said that too, because I think everybody, like, for some reason you have this expectation that things are just supposed to be like, la, la, la, like in life and they're not.

Or not. Yeah, that's true. So it's one of the biggest lessons. You know, I've. One of my kids is having some difficulties right now, and he's in his, he's in his mid-20s. And I, I tell him, you know, it's, it's, it's. There are challenges, buddy, you need to, you are the only one who can make yourself happy. Nobody else can make us happy but ourselves. And once we understand that and we look could be a problem that's facing us. Like, you know, we're going through this challenging divorce and we're feeling horrible, and instead of just again flipping into this victimhood, if we, if we realize that we are in control of our lives, that we are the only ones who can't make ourselves happy, then, my God, that is, that is like the eye opening, that is the epiphany, that is the awakening. That's how you're going to move forward.

Yeah, I think it took me to like 45 years old, basically where I'm at right now, to come to the realization that, like, it isn't supposed to be roses and sunshine and rainbows. All right, that is not life. And it's. So you're like, once you just get that through your head, you're like, okay, I'm able to kind of ride the ups and downs a little bit easier. Because you go, okay, well, today was a hard day, but tomorrow is going to be a different day, you know, and it's like, yeah, and I wish. And also mentality when I was 35, going through to my divorce, you know.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. And that's. I mean, this is all. This all comes from wisdom. I mean, if we could all go back and tell our younger selves the things we know now, we. I mean, my gosh, life would be easy, right? So, yes, again, I mean, I think it's hard when you are going through the trauma to realize all of this, but that is why you do the work and that is why you go through this journey and try again to find the gratitude every day. Because there will be days that will be much harder than others and you'll be like, I mean, there's things that you're going to question like, should I have gotten divorced? You know, and. And that's okay. And don't, don't ignore that feel. That feel every feeling. I mean, it's important to feel every feeling when you're going through your journey. If you have a day where you just want to sit there and cry and eat chocolate because you're feeling miserable and you're in victim, do it and just tell yourself, okay, once I get through this, that's it. I'm done. Like after two hours or after, let me go to sleep, when I wake up, it's over. I'm done. I'm going to focus and just keep finding the things that you're grateful for.

That is also true. And I love that. And also, like you said, just accepting, like, okay, this is today. I'm going to sit here and wallow in it for today. Tomorrow it's a totally different story. And just being okay with yourself, like, what you need to do to get through is the most important part. So true. Yeah.

I wanted to pick up on something you, you said about people saying you kind of briefly were listing some things that people stay together. And you said, staying together for the children. And I wanted to say something about that because I was counseling somebody who was. Is actually a man and he was staying with his partner because of the child. And I said, you know, think about this for a moment. You are staying for the child. And I also have another client who's doing the same thing for Many years he's been waiting till the child graduates high school. I said, do you not think that your child picks up on this negativity? And the fact that you're not sleeping in the same bed with your wife and the way that you treat her, it's not a loving relationship. There's all these children pick up on that. So what happens is children are very in tune and a lot of people kind of don't realize that they're like little sponges, no matter how old they are. And the older they get, the more so they're going to notice it. So by, by staying together for the children, you're actually doing a disservice to the children because the children are going to. Especially the older they get, they're going to think that this is a quote, unquote, normal relationship. And so mom and dad don't touch each other, they don't kiss each other, they don't laugh together, they don't dance together, they don't sleep in the same bed. So this is normal. And you're actually creating issues within your child that are going to manifest later on your life oftentimes. And I just, I think that is not an excuse to stay with somebody. So, I mean, once you can that point up.

Because, yeah, like in my own childhood, going back to that and listening to my parents fighting in the next room is a memory that I have. And like, getting into my marriage and thinking like, that's just normal to fight all the time. Because you really are conditioned in that way.

Exactly.

It is super important for children to see a happy, thriving relationship. Like that is the most important thing, I think.

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's a. There's a movement now, you've probably heard of it, called conscious uncoupling, which Gwyneth Paltrow. And yeah, so that, that's really a wonderful, beautiful thing. And my hope is that more people will start to gravitate toward that instead of going through this whole. And you know, I'm an attorney and I've done family law, but I mean, just going through this whole mess with attorneys, I mean, I know so many people, and you probably do too, who start their divorce has started out amicable, but. But because attorneys say, you know, you should have this, you get that and you should have that, it just got so nasty. And that whole process is not good for, for either of the partners and for kids, especially if kids are involved. So I think that is such a beautiful thing to make it like a ceremony that you are uncoupling and involve the children in the ceremony so they see that this is okay. Like mom and dad, you know, are grateful. They both love us and that's the most important thing, by the way, for children, when you're divorcing, just knowing that people still love them and it's not their fault. But yeah. So I think things like that and movements like that are really kind of getting more and more popular, which hopefully in time will make this whole negative stereotype, negative stereotypes about divorce kind of fade into the sunset. It's my, my dream anyway.

Hopefully I agree with all that and looking back at certain situations in my own life and feeling like it was my fault and being the only child and just being like isolated and lonely, I just think I know that I was like super, super conscious of that or at least I tried to be when I was going myself just to make sure, you know, that none of our children really felt any of that. So this was all great advice. I think we could probably go on for so much longer.

Oh yeah.

So much to unpack with divorce and all the trauma that comes with it. But your book is Divorce to Bliss. They can find you@rachelsruby.com on Facebook and on Instagram. Rachel Sruby Author Correct.

Yes.

If they want to book you for coaching or anything like that through your website as well.

Through the website, yeah. And if they want to just learn a little bit more about the book and get a free download on the top 10 mistakes people make that keep them from recovering after divorce, they can go to Divorce to Bliss Calm. They can also get there from my website. But if they want to go direct, they can do that as well.

Oh great. Okay, awesome. So we can find you in lots of ways.

Well, so much.

This has been so informative and I think it's really going to help a lot of people out there. So that that's what it's all about. And you've been listening to visible panty lines, aka VPL the Pod. A new episode drops every Sunday morning at 8:30.