23. The Trailblazing Journey of Renata Black: Empowering Women Globally

Welcome to vpl, the podcast and that is Visible Panty Lines. Transparent conversations of inspiration, encouragement and overcoming adversity. And if you subscribe and you've been listening, Visible Panties the Pod airs on all major pod platforms. Hit 115 on the Apple pod chart for news in second week. Really proud of that and hit the top 100 recently. So I'm glad that you guys are listening and you're appreciating all of these amazing stories and these amazing people that I brought on. And usually when I talk about visible panty lines, they ask me if it's about bras for obvious reasons. And usually our topic isn't bras or bra related. If you've been listening. You know, I had Lisa Lindahl, who's the inventor of the sports bra on, and now I'm really excited to have another bra maven coming on. And her company is a bit newer, so that's what makes it so exciting. I recently had the pleasure to show it on Access Daily, which is airing on Monday nationwide. And she just has a really great concept and really just kind of goes along with everything that I'm always talking about here on bpl, which is empowering other women and really, really just figuring out ways to feel empowered and self care and all that sort of thing. So I think this really personifies that. So welcome Reynada Black and she is the CEO and co founder of Eby Lingerie, which stands for empowered by you, which I love. I think that's just great to begin with. And this is a size inclusive brand launched in 2018. So as I said, fairly new, but like she's doing amazing. Big name investors including Rosario Dawson, Venus Williams, Sofia Vargara and she. Reynada has an amazing backstory too, so we'll get into that with her. I don't want to give too much away, so. Hi, Renata.

Thank you so much for having me. I was, I was telling you that I just absolutely love the name of this podcast because I just feel like we don't talk enough about the real and the raw and what we're all going through. And like a visible panty line is your outside showing when you don't want to and then actually having a conversation about it. I just feel it makes everything better. So I'm just super grateful to be here. Thank you.

Thank you. And as I was just saying off camera that I'm so glad that you get it because I feel like there is this deep meaning. Like women know that, you know, there's flaws that sometimes happen that you just can't avoid, like, such as showing panty lines. That's, like, supposedly a big faux pas, right? So it's something that we're always trying to avoid. And, you know, that's kind of like showing a little bit of ourselves and being raw and authentic. And, hey, if we have BPL one day, it's okay. But your lingerie line isn't going to show any bpl. So if we're talking in the literal sense, first of all, I love what you're doing. Like, I feel like I really have been privy. Being a bra expert and working with so many brands over, like, 20 years, I'm pretty much privy to everything that's out there. And I've never really seen quite anything like this. And especially, like, the bra in particular that we're showing on Access, it is, like, so light, so breathable. Like, literally feels like almost nothing to it. But I remember someone at the show taping the other day, they were like, oh, there's nothing to it, but is it supportive? And I was like, yes, I'm a 34 DD and I've been wearing it all the time. Time. Honestly, like, I'm amazed with the bra. Love the bra. So kudos.

Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. You know, it's interesting because we started off as a. As an underwear company, and then we started getting into these bra, like these bralettes. And. And then all of a sudden, this became, like, the number one product for us. And it's just been growing at 3x. And the reason being is because, you know, women have been in Covid. They've just been super, super comfortable. And the reality is that once you're comfortable as women, one thing that we all have in common is that we cannot go backwards in lifestyle. So once we're comfortable and even though we have to go back into the workforce, we don't want to go being uncomfortable, but yet we want support. So what these bras do is that they give you the support that you need, right. When you're a bigger chest of women or anybody who needs to put a bra on to not, like, you know, free the nipple as much as we would all want that, but it gives you the support without the discomfort, without the pesky underwires. And I think that's been really liberating for women is to say, I don't need to tolerate being uncomfortable and just think about all the things in life. It's like in life, you get what you tolerate. And what we're saying is, you don't have to tolerate being uncomfortable to get support. And I think that because of that, it's. It's been so successful, which I'm just, like, so happy about.

Yeah, obviously, the Bralette is having a moment, and a lot of that has to do with. But it's like, I keep getting asked to comment on articles on Bralettes and all this stuff like that because it is so popular right now. But it's like, there are such a wide span of that type of bra, and there's, like, so many of them that really don't offer you everything you need. So it can be really challenging. And I agree with you. Like, no one should have to suffer through, like, having a wire poking you or feeling like you're, like, spilling out or you keep having to adjust yourself. Like, they're. They're. The technology now in bra making is, like, amazing. So, you know, at this point in time in the intimate apparel industry, like, I feel like there's no excuse to have something that isn't great. And I think that you made something that's not only great, but it's also pretty. And I think that's really important, too. And for women to kind of feel like they're not really wearing anything, you don't have that sense of, like, wanting to, like, ripping it off at the end of the.

Right, right.

And that's, I think, empowering. So tell me a little bit about, like, why you came up with this name, how that came about.

Yeah, I mean, so just a quick backstory on me is I was. Both of my parents died when I was very young, and I was adopted from Colombia and brought to the States. And I always felt very lucky to be born into the States. And how many, like, the opportunities that you have in the States, we're very, very, very lucky country. And I don't know if you would necessarily know the depth of how lucky we are unless you come from abroad. So I always was very, very lucky to be here and said, well, I'm going to make my life count. I just don't want to live my life consuming and enjoying life. I need to make sure that because I'm here, the world is going to be different. And so when I graduated from college, I was traveling, took a trip around the world for a year, and I ended up in India after the tsunami. And the woman came up to me while I was living in India, and she said, look, I don't want your money. Can you just teach me how to make it? And I was like, wow, that's crazy. I mean, first of all, I'm so super broke. I have student loans up to here, and. And I don't know how to make money. I just graduated from college. I have no idea. But, you know, it really struck with me. And I saw these women relying on. On aid, and they were just becoming so handicapped and so crippled. I was like, well, this is not the answer. And I ended up finding microfinance, which was helping women start their own businesses to come out of poverty. So, like, a small loan of $75 could help a woman start her fish stand, and then she could break the cycle of poverty for her kids, pay her loan back. Another woman could start her business. It was phenomenal. And I just fell in love with microfinance. But what happened while I was there is that the women in India, I would have to wear a sari every day. And they would say to me, oh, it must be horrible living in the States. You have to show your cleavage and your legs to get a man. You must hate that. And I was like, I'm Colombian. I like it short. I like it tight. Fluorescent leopard, preferably. Like, are you crazy? I'm like, what's wrong with you? And here I am wrapped like a burrito every day. So after living like that for two years, I moved back to the States. I was watching the Victoria's Secret show, and it really hit me. I was like, wow, maybe we do use seduction to objectify women. And what if we could use seduction to empower women? And that really sent me on this trajectory of coming up with the best in class production and giving 10% of those proceeds back to microfinance and helping women start their own businesses. So ultimately, EBBY stands for empowered by you, which is, in essence, eby, because every time you buy Ebby, like, we are the world is, we are empowered by you. So that's kind of like the backstory.

Wow, that is such a. Like, first of all, that's amazing. Like, what an amazing story. Now, how long were you in India?

I lived there for two years. Yeah. I lived there for two years. Yeah.

Wow, that's like. That's amazing. So I'm already sorry, my wheels are turning about doing a story for you for the website that. The online magazine that I write for.

Thank you. Awesome.

Awesome happens during my podcast. Like, I'm like, wait, I have to do a story on that. And then it's great because we can obviously talk about and promote your business and everything too, but.

It'S E, B, Y or EBY and empowered by you. So That's.

Yes. Ebby. Yeah. Most. It's Ebby. Ebby. That stands for empowered by you.

That's amazing. Also, too, when people are listening, they will be more apt to type it in as opposed to try to spell. Type it in with spelling.

Yeah, yeah, it's shopjoinebby.com. but we should link back to it. Yeah.

So, okay. Right. And you have the subscription, which makes it unique and I think more really accessible for women, too, because they can kind of keep it coming, which is great. And I love the give back aspect that. I mean, a lot of companies. It's funny because I just watched the Chris Rock special on the plane.

Oh, my God.

And he did this whole bit on, like, oh, it's so, like, trite with these companies giving back. Like, Lululemon has a big sign. We give back. Like, the only thing I want my yoga pants to give back is, like, you know, walking with my booty, whatever, you know, I mean, it was.

Yeah, he was really funny. He's like, give back by not charging $120 for a legging.

Yeah, give me back, like, the $250.

Yeah, he's so funny.

Like, you lived this purpose. You saw these women, you helped these women, and now you're helping them. Even though you're no longer living there and you're in a different field, so to speak, you are still helping them. And that is meaningful like that. I think when you're. It's a cause that's really passionate and connected for you. Like, that's not the trite, you know, corporation giving back. Just to say, like, you. And that's so special, too. Like, I've never heard of.

I.

If you didn't tell me about that, I would have never heard of microfi. I honestly never heard of micro financing. I didn't know what it was. Yeah. So it's amazing that. That you were able to incorporate that into your intimates business. So tell me, it's so cool you have these, like, amazing women investors. Like, obviously, you're a Latina entrepreneur, and so Sofia Vergara has kind of jumped on board with you. She's Colombian also, correct?

Yes, she is. She is, yeah.

Because she kind of talks about it a lot. Right. She's really fun. So tell me, like, that connection and how you kind of got that. These. All these amazing women involved.

Yeah. So, you know, when we first started, we were in some small stores, and Sophia had gotten a hold of the underwear, and she fell in love with the underwear. And simultaneously, just as luck would have It. One of my friends was seeding celebrities with the product and she seated Sophia and Sophia was like, eight. I really love this product. B, I love the cause because she just is a woman in business and she really believes in empowering women into business to come out of poverty. And so she fell in love with the cause and we connected and she was like, listen, I really only support products that, that I genuinely believe in. And I genuinely believe in this product. I love the product and I love the cause. And so she co founded the business with me, which was amazing. And she's just such a rock star. Her has one of the most purest hearts, such a good girl. And she's just been, you know, so, so inspirational to have. Additionally, we had. So not only that, but Rosario Dawson, who came in as an investor in our series A. And she was actually a dear. She's been a dear friend of mine. We met a long time ago at Burning man and she's just. Oh, God, I just love her, you know, she's such a good friend of mine and girls girl, you know, just a girl's girl. And she, she was like, hey, you didn't ask me to invest. And I was like, are you investing? And she's like, yes, I'm investing now. And so I was like, yes, come in on the round. And so she's just been an awesome supporter. And she just did Star Wars. I'm so proud of her, how her career has evolved. And then I had met Venus Williams, manager at a. At a. At a conference. And I'm like, hey, you should give Venus the underwear. And then he calls me and he's like, she loves the underwear. She plays tennis in it all the time. Like, we would love to come in on the round. So it's been so refreshing to have powerful women exercise their power. Because when I first started fundraising and when I first started my foundation, I could not get a woman to support me because the reality is that they would say to me, if you fail, I fail. And it's not like the guys club, where if they fail, it's a failure and you move on. So they weren't as resilient to failure. And failure by association was really hard on their image and reputation. Whereas now women are much more confident, they're making investments and they understand that they have a portfolio play. So it's just been, you know, there's been a lot of talk of women's empowerment, and even when it first started talking, like, women really were not stepping up and it was just talk. But Now I feel like it's actually, it's actually happening.

That's amazing. Like, also an amazing story. Really cool how you networked and used your connections and, like, you connected with Sophia in that way of your, you know, your heritage, and both of you being passionate about the same cause, like, that's really magical and.

How it has to happen. And it's really inspiring, too, because I am sort of in that boat too, where I launched. I have the gem bra, and it's a crystal healing bra. And I launched.

Yeah. So this is kind of crazy, but I, I, I was working as a spokesperson for a major bra company, and for two years, and I was on qvc going back and forth, like, several times a week, and that was like, my primary income. And then I was between contracts that the pandemic happened and everything shut down and they, like, freaked out and they pulled out of qvc. And I was just like, okay, you know, I have a family to support, and, you know, we're here locked in with, you know, homeschooling kids. And then my stepdad passed away, like, the same week.

It was just like, oh, my God. Yeah.

So I, like, at that point in time, I was like, okay, I can sit here and, like, be frozen and not do anything, or I can make a prototype and pitch my own bra. And I had this idea of this crystal bra because I, I really believe in the metaphysical, too, and I believe in, like, bringing that to women that maybe have not been experienced that and that, that sort of, like, inner healing and inner confidence, you know? So, yeah, so I made a prototype and I pitched it to QVC in 2020 and picked out of 2600 brands. So I ended up launching IQ21 and selling through most of the first round inventory. And I was kind of the same thing. Like, I'm sure you can relate, but I had, you know, a couple of people offer to come in as investors, and one wanted 51% of the company before I even started. And these were all men, too. You know, men in the intimate apparel industry, which is. There's tons of them and nothing. But there's so many men in the apparel. It's almost like, easy.

Yeah, there are. There are. Yeah.

So it was like, I had that experience, and I said, no, thank you. And then I had another guy come in, and it was like all this crazy stuff that he was trying to, trying to do kind of unethical stuff. So I was like, okay, that's not going to work out either. And then I had a woman, and then that Kind of fell through. So I am in that boat where I'm in that in between where I like, had, have a proven concept and, you know, sold all my inventory and now I don't. I'm looking for money to buy new inventory. So I really need a partner. So it's been like a roller coaster ride, you know, feeling like.

You know, it should work out because it's already been successful. But it's like you have so many disappointments, so.

Oh my God, totally. I mean, you know, I am, I am. I consider myself and I say this with all humility. I'm a professional fundraiser. I've raised over $10 million all by myself. And let me tell you, it's a job. It's, there's a, there's a process to pitching and it's a mindset. It's almost like thinking of a top athlete in the Olympics where you're like, okay, it's fundraising time. To give myself this much time. I'm going to set up this many meetings. So if you need to raise, let's say 5 million. Okay, how many times do I have to pitch to get to 5 million? Okay, I need to pitch at least 50 people. If 50 people, if at least 2% of that converts, let's say average amount of money that converts. I need to pitch this many people. I have to hit that many people to pitch in this amount of time. And then it's a no for breakfast, no for lunch, no for dinner. Boom. Wake up the next day with the same amount of enthusiasm. And all you have to do think is Guns N Roses does not get tired of singing Paradise City. Boom, let's go pitch again. And you have to get into this resilient mindset that it's a numbers game and you can't let it eat away at you or chip away at you because it's just the nature of the beast. Especially. I never like to play the gender or the female card. I'm like, you know what, you just try to be as exceptional as possible, but the truth is that only 2% of women get VC funding and less than that is for Hispanic or black women. But you know what, who gives a shit? You just keep on pitching, just keep on going and until you, until you get the money. So I think, you know, it's a mental thing, but it's a full time job. And if you have the right mindset that it doesn't matter how many no's you get, you just. And every time you pitch, you learn something from every no. I Would keep track of all of the no's and I would, I would continue to refine my pitch and get better and better and better. I would always say, like, if you're going to go pitching, pitch 10 people before you actually officially start. Because you learn so much from, from pitching and iterating on it. You don't want to start with your, with the people that you like. Big fish to start on your first pitch. So it's, it's a, it's an art. It's an art, but it's a, it's a dedication as well. But if you do it and you dedicate the time and the mics face to it, you'll do it.

I mean, wow, that's all like such great advice and I think like most people don't really know anything about it, honestly. Like, I mean, I'm on in the marketing, you know, I've been in marketing for 20 something years and in journalism. So like I know how to pitch something. But is it the people are going to want to hear, you know, and then it's like, how do you know who to even reach out to? Like, do you go to hedge funds? Do you, you know, it's like such a wacky. And what do you, what do you need to show them? And it's like, I don't know, it's, it's, it's really, really hard. It's amazing to see that the amount of women that do get businesses off the ground and are successful with them. A lot of these companies that I work with, you know, they are like small business women owned kind of things, especially more so in the past few years. So it's just like amazing how they're doing it. You know, I have so much respect for. Because yeah, really not easy. It really isn't. And that is definitely good advice that I'm sure some of our listeners who are looking to launch businesses are in that process and people that are like me that are at this like crossroads of needing more funding to continue their business.

Yeah, I mean it just, it sounds more daunting than it actually is than when you're just like, okay, step one, let me get my deck right. Let me do some research. What is the best pitch deck? Problem solution. What is the problem I'm solving for? Great. Get the pitch deck. Get it down 14 slides. Boom. Show the success. Then you're like, okay, I gotta get in front of investors. All right, angel investors. That's, you know, before you have, you have angel, you have seed and then you have series A. Okay, look up angel investors and then start reaching out and just be relentless and reaching out to angel investors. Pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch. Learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. Give yourself a time frame. And then. And then you'll, you know, just. You just research. There's so much information out there on how to do it, but it's. I promise you, it's one step at a time, and it is not as daunting as people make it seem.

That is even just like breaking it down with the steps, like, that made me actually feel a lot better about it. I can do this.

Totally. Totally.

I can do this. Literally flying by the seat of my pants. Somehow I manufactured a really great bra, actually, during a pandemic, and managed to sell almost all of them. So I guess, you know, anything's possible for sure.

Totally.

So what's next? Like, what's next for. For the brand? Like, where are you? What, What? You know, you've come this far, so what's next?

So a couple of things. I am doing a fundraise right now, so I'm entering into that. So interviewing a bunch of M and A advisors. Do a parallel process. Right now. I'm doing that. And then in tandem. This has been just one of those hockey stake years where we've really found our footing. Our subscription business. Women love our subscription business because we send them three underwear once every three months. And it's like, you know what? There's certain things in my life that I need on repeat. Wine, Botox, and underwear. Because I don't have time to look for my underwear. I go to yoga, I go to dinner, and they're dirty half the time, and then I lose them and then they're stained, and it's like, if I get three underwear once every three months, I'm actually really happy about it. And the reality is, like, why are we even going to the store to buy underwear? We don't even try it on. And then all the underwear is on the sixth floor in some freaking mall. It's like, forget it. So the subscription business has really started to take off. And we started a subscription. Then we went to E. Comm. And now we finally found our footing. So that's awesome. And then we found, you know, everybody was just jumping off of Facebook. Remember Facebook? All marketers were like, it was like the Titanic, right? Everybody was just jumping off because it was such a nice nightmare when I Apple did their whole iOS 14 update. And so we had to quickly find another way of acquiring customers. And we started working with influencers and content creators and it was just so awesome because these girls are small businesses too and they love the product. So they're like. And then they realize the impact that we're having on women's small businesses. And it was such a natural connection to who we are, why we are and what you do that these girls just are ended up talking about the company and incorporating it into their daily lives. And now the influencer channel is our number one channel. So that was just awesome. And creating, they create like the surround sound, which was, was just amazing. And so, you know, those two things have just been working exceptionally well. And then the last thing is I've been working on a new bra with a new technology, which is this soft wire and it's a non metal wire bra. So it gives you the support of a wire without it being a wire. And I've been working on this technology for over a year now and it's going to come out for mother's day and I just think it's going to be so freaking cool. And I, you know, I put it on my fit model. My fit model is the same fit model for Ari, same fit model for skims. And she's like, I've never put a bra on like this. And to wow her is big. So, you know, that's really. My next thing is just continuing to innovate on product with technology.

That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, and that's what I think is so important in the industry right now and especially just like setting yourself apart from other brands is, you know, having those sort of features and kind of like being up on new things and not. There's so many of the brands that are out there, just everybody's like making the same bra. You know what I mean?

Right, right. No, and I love the crystals idea. I mean, I'm such a fan of crystals. I, I really would love to see that. That sounds amazing because crystals have such an amazing power. And, and, and, and you know, the thing is that putting metal against your skin is never a good idea. You know, it just isn't. So it, I think, I love what you've done is take the juxtaposition of putting something very powerful next to your skin. That sounds, that sounds really good. And so I think along the same lines, you know, think about the women in the U.S. this is something that women in the U.S. don't realize. Women in the U.S. have so much power. They don't realize that the rest of the world, 90, 98% of the world lives on $2 a day. The Choices that American women have an impact on the rest of the world. The coffee we drink, the plastics we use, the bras we wear. Like, every decision has such an amazing impact. I mean, if you. If you think about if you're a schoolteacher or if you're. If you're a nurse, you make the average income of at least 2% in the world. That's how powerful the United States is. And so every decision that we make makes such a difference. So when people like yourself or myself are enabling women to choose wisely with products that are good for them, are good for the environment and good for the world, it just makes. It just makes. You know, you always have to ask yourself, what is the best use of my life? And the best use for somebody's life is the day that we die. It mattered that we were here.

Absolutely. And that was like. Part of the whole thing with the crystals was, you know, I felt like, here I am in the pandemic, going through all of this stuff, like, all of this really heavy stuff, and if that's happening to me, that's happening to millions of other women. So I was like, okay, what can I do that would really make women feel good on the inside and the outside? And it's like, oh, this is so simple. Like, you know, the crystal. The idea of the crystal, I did a. I have a design patent on the center of the bra that houses the crystal. So the idea is, like, it's. It's being carried with you. It's not going to fall out. It's not poking you. It's not poking out of your clothes. It's just kind of housed in this little mesh pocket, which is awesome. And it's a smooth. It's an authentic crystal, but it's a smooth down, like, made, like, almost like a bead and shaped like a heart and a hole drilled through it. So it's actually fixed on it in the mesh pocket, so it won't even, like, move around. So that was my whole idea. And then when I got to the platform of qbc, which is such, like. I mean, they have millions of viewers and it's a huge platform, but I wasn't allowed to talk about the question what they do. And like, a month before I launched. Yeah. That they were. Their department was like, yeah. And I'm like, but I don't get it. You sell crystals.

That's the whole point. Yeah, exactly.

Well, you picked this product, and they were like, we love you. You're the bra expert, and you have such a great story. And Everybody knows you for bras, and we just wanted a bra from you. And then the crystal thing is secondary. And I'm. No, that's not like, yes, I'm glad that you love me. You want the idea, you know, me and my expertise. That's great. I'm not, you know, poo, pooing that by any means, but this idea of the crystal and is the uplifting aspect besides the bra for women and for your viewer and for all the women out there. So they were like, yeah, but you can't say that the crystal does anything for these women. So they wanted me to talk about it like it's a gemstone, like it's a piece of jewelry, but you can't even really housing in this.

So.

Yeah, challenging. But of course, like, in the online marketing and everything I did share with women, you know, like, you put the. The. The black one, which. Which was the amethyst, the black gem bra, and you get this feeling of courage and confidence, and you can carry that with you throughout the day. And I had women writing to me and saying, like, you know, I sent one to my friend who has breast cancer. Cancer. Like, thank you so much for doing this. I sent one to my mother, who, you know, or I sent one to so and so who just got a divorce. I mean, it was like women uplifting other women through this bra, and then at the same time, they get, like a great bra out of it, you know? So.

Yeah, that's awesome. I love the concept. Congrats.

Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, that was. That was like, just like you. It was super important to me to figure out a way to really uplift other women in what I do. Besides, you know, it's like, okay, you want to have a business and you want to make money, of course, because you need to live, but you want to be able to make an impact and, you know, leave some sort of impression on people that is doing good. Really. So I love that, like, what you're all about, too. And I think that's probably why you're partly. Besides being incredibly smart and all these other things, you're all. That's also contributing to your success with Abby and everything that you are doing. So I'm really proud to know you now, and I'm so glad that we met and we're able to do this. I do want to. I'm going to connect again because I want to do a story actually on you. I'm interested in writing about you, so.

Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. So if you're open to that. We'll connect on that and where. So talk about quick. Just so TikTok is at join Ebby, but it's Eby. So join Eby Instagram thing and then rain Black if they want to follow you personally. So R E N A T A M Black. And then they can find Evie on Facebook too. Right. Is there anything else you want to add? Did we miss anything?

No, no, no. I mean, I think the net. Net of. I think my entire message is all about. It's three things. It's what is the best use of your life, really thinking that through. And you always have to think about, like, what is on the other side of fear? What's on the other side of failure? And I always think about that, like, what could be possible if I live outside of fear? And because I feel like fear is one of the things that really cripples and inhibits us. And so, like, for me, the fear conversation happens daily. And I always ask myself, well, you know, I don't want to send this email. What am I scared of? Like, what is what. What could be possible if I didn't live in fear? And that's like the one thing that I always try to try to convey with people. And then the last thing I always say is, if it's not going to matter in five, yours don't spend more than five minutes on it. And I think that that really puts things in perspective. And that's kind of like for women who are entrepreneurs or women who are looking to be entrepreneurs, those three things are the things that I really guide my life by and has led me to be who I am. And being an entrepreneur is a thankless job. It's the hardest thing ever. I remember I started my business because I wanted to have my own life and make my own decisions. That is just so far from it. I work 16 hours a day. I don't ever. I take many Saturdays off. I work every single Sunday. And it's like, you have to really be committed and passionate and have unwavering faith and conviction in something to really want to see it come to life. Because it is really, really, really difficult if not everybody would do it. So I think it's. It's finding that passion that you're so that you could have that unwavering commitment and have that level of devotion to if you really want to do it. If not. I don't think entrepreneurship is for everybody. I think, you know, there's nothing wrong with extending the reach and impact of an existing organization. I have a ton of respect for that as well. So, you know, that's, that's kind of how, how I look at entrepreneurship.

Yeah. I always say entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart because, wow, it's like lots of no's, lots of doors slammed in your face. I mean, lots of doubting yourself and, and what you're doing. And it's like you have to just keep plugging along, I guess.

Right.

So. Or you decide you don't want to do it and you, and you move on to something else. Which there's nothing wrong with that either, if that's, you know, what you choose. But.

Inspiring, empowering, informative, so many great things. I feel like I want to talk to you so much more, but I think we'll probably get to know each better in the future. So thank you again for your time. And you've been listening to Visible Panty Lines, the podcast. A new episode drops every Saturday at 8am I am Janae Luciani Senna and thanks again for listening, everyone. Bye.