How This Heating Engineer Cut Paperwork Time In Half w/ Hollie Stallworthy

When you first start a business, you just do everything and anything. Like activity is like the most important thing.

It's almost like being on a treadmill, isn't it? You're running, but you feel like you're doing something, but you're not. You're just staying in one place. You're spending your whole weekends and evenings just photocopying and absolutely not. That's ridiculous. I have this customer, but they have like 20 properties and we do the servicing and the landlord certification. And when it came to that time of year where I had to do 20 different CD11s, So I then had to physically pay postage to send the certificates to them. So you can imagine the paperwork mountain that I had around me in general. And it was this particular customer that made me think about going digital.

In a sentence or two, why should people care about this conversation?

If you are self-employed or thinking of being self-employed, the Gas Engineer Software has given me massive benefits in terms of saving time. So if you're interested in saving time, maybe have a listen.

This is the Gas Engineer Podcast. I'm your host, Tullik Priest, and today I'm joined by Holly Stallworthy. If you didn't catch our previous episodes, Holly is a sole trader, sorry, you've been upgraded to— Limited company. Limited company now. And OFTEC registered oil technician who's built her business into a huge success with a thriving customer base of over 600 people. This episode Holly is part of a series where we celebrate the success of Gas Engineer Software users and share their stories. Welcome to the show, Holly.

Hello, thank you for having me.

Starting and running a business can be a challenge. We'll speak to Holly about how she's managed to build a successful business from the ground up by specializing in oil. In this episode, we're going to learn how Holly runs her business using software and what benefit it brings to her job and to her business. What was it like kind of prior? What kind of caused you to kind of look for software?

Oh gosh, I was drowning in paperwork. So I'm very much one of your Microsoft Word people. I had a pen and paper diary and I would physically write out every certificate that I did. Obviously with the OFTEC website, you can, you can buy those pads which are like duplicate pads, but then I would give the customer the certificate on the job. I would write out on a duplicate pad, the invoice.

Are you talking about the carbon copy ones where you have to push really hard?

Yes.

And you still can't read it?

Correct.

Okay.

So yeah, then the customer would have that copy and then it was just like thrown in the wind as to whenever they would pay. Um, so, and then I'd take all that, like that duplicate paperwork home, and then I'd have to file it somewhere.

How long do you have to keep the oil for, certificates for?

I think it's 7 years.

Because it's either 5 or 7, I can't remember for the gas.

I, yeah, I don't remember, but—

It's a while.

It's, yeah, to err on the side of caution, I've kept them for 7 years. I've still got my first certifications from 2017. Is it 2017 when I first started? Yes, 2017. So I've still got them. They say you can keep them for up to 7 years, but Who actually throws their paperwork away or goes through it and sorts it? Yeah, organized people, and I am not one of those. So yeah, I would give the customer their copy and I would write that out on, on at the time when I was doing the job, which was a pain if I'm honest, because then you'd have to go and find a pen, which isn't something that you always use. And it was, it would add another 15 minutes onto the end of each job. And if you do 4 jobs a day, that's an hour that you're spending doing invoicing and certification.

So how are you actually doing the invoicing? So you're writing the certificates out and with your CD-11s?

Yes.

And then you were also— were you typing up the invoices on, um, correct? Okay, on Word, literally.

Yes, every invoice had its own number, and then for my records, I would then type up each individual invoice, and I had an Excel spreadsheet of the invoice number, how much. If the customer needed it emailed to them, I would then write it up in Word and then send it to them. There was— it was just really physically demanding.

And how did you keep track of, like, who's paid and who's not?

On my Excel spreadsheet, it would have— I feel really embarrassed saying this because it's so basic.

This is a little while ago, though.

It was, it was 8 years ago, and, you know, I would basically go on my bank account, see who had paid, go to that Excel spreadsheet, and it would say "paid" at the end of it with a little green box, because I knew how to make little green boxes on Excel. And it was pretty much all on me. Like, I had to check whether they had paid. If they hadn't paid, I would then have to chase them for payment and things like that. It was pretty much all on me. There was no automatic reconciliation or anything like that. So I used to— sorry, I still do. I have this customer who is a really good customer, but they have like 20 properties, and we do the servicing and the landlord certification for this particular customer. And when it came to that time of year where I had to do 20 different CD11s, 20 different CD12 landlord certificates, they weren't based— it was an agency, and they weren't based in Kent. So I then had to physically pay postage to send the certificates to them in Harrogate. So you can imagine Yeah, the paperwork mountain that I had around me in general. And it was this particular customer that made me think about going digital.

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I'm always kind of interested to know why you transitioned, like what was the, you know, because you did 4 years of paperwork.

Yeah.

And then there was, there was something that inside of you said, this is not, this is not the way for, this is enough.

I think it was just when you're first self-employed, you're all keen and you're green, aren't you? And you're like, yeah, I'll do all this, I'll send these boiler reminders out 5 post and signed each one. And yeah, you think that you're doing— and then you get really busy and then it becomes a chore. And I think I remember it was February 2021 I started using this software, and I think it was March time when that big customer comes in with all of those services. And I was like, my— I was just initially like filled with dread at the amount of paperwork because then it would just sit there and then you procrastinate and then the service is not good and then they take ages to pay because they didn't receive the invoice straight away. Yeah. They, they got the invoice a week or two later because I couldn't be bothered to do all my paperwork and make all the copies, and I can't believe I used to do it that way.

Hmm. Yeah, it's easy in hindsight though, but you can't, uh—

It's very clear-cut.

Yeah. You need to try, like, when you first start a business, you just do everything and anything. Like, activity is like the most important thing.

Yes.

Then you work out what works, and then you, you refine it.

It's almost like being on a treadmill, isn't it? You're running. And you feel like you're doing something, but you're not, you're just staying in one place. That's kind of the best analogy I would, I can think of that. You feel like you're being really good, but actually you're spending your whole weekends and evenings just photocopying and absolutely not, that's ridiculous. So, no, yeah.

Okay, and how did you, 'cause they, you know, our software is called Gas Engineer Software.

Yes.

And you are an oil technician.

Yeah.

How did you actually find like Gas Engineer Software? Obviously we do oil.

Yes.

We do the oil, but it's, um, you know, it's not as predominant.

You are one of the few that do. So I, I think I might have put a message in, um, shout out to all the oil technicians in this Facebook group, um, but, uh, there's a, there's an oil technicians Facebook group, and I think I put a post on there. And I was also talking to another one of my friends who was using a different one, or was Anyway, I was having a conversation about it and a lot of people recommended Gas Engineer Software and they also recommended others as well. But when I looked into others, I mean, this was 4 years ago, so I can't remember exactly who it was. Mm-hmm. They didn't have the oil certifications. So Gas Engineer Software was the only one that came up and it had all of the oil certificates and it also had the job sheets and it had the invoices and it had the quotes. And I've only just recently started using the calendar, but it had the calendar. And the automatic reminder system, it just had all of these different points where I was like, that's a really good idea. And it sort of, yeah, that's what helped me make the decision. And I started using it. I think I had a free trial.

You would have done, yeah.

Yeah, I remember there being a free trial for, I think it was a week, or was it 2 weeks?

I think at that point, I'm not sure. Like at the moment it's, uh, it's, yeah, it'll be around that period.

I don't know. I had a free trial and I was like, well, it gives me a free trial, so I might as well try it out. And then, yeah, I've been paying it since then and it's been 4 years.

Yeah, thank you, Miranda.

It's okay.

Thank you. How were you doing like the reminders beforehand?

Oh, you're gonna laugh. You are actually going to laugh. I used to send letters.

Like physical?

Like physical. I used to print off a letter and hand sign each one because, you know, I'm female and we do stuff like that. I didn't spray perfume on it though. And then I would post it to the customer.

That would have been quite a task every month.

Every month it was quite a task, and it was also very expensive because obviously you got second-class stamps, envelopes. I mean, people did appreciate the personal touch because it's not the sort of thing that they, that they receive. Everything you get in the, in the mail is a bill or something, whereas if— so people, some people really enjoyed that. However, from a business perspective, when you have Now I Know plus 600 customers, that's a lot of stamps and that's a lot of administration time for someone to do that. Yeah. So it was just a no-brainer for me, um, although you do lose that personal touch, it was a no-brainer to go to the automatic reminder system, definitely.

Yeah, because what's that, what, 500 or something a month, something like that?

Something like that, yeah, quite a few.

Yeah, so that would— it's I wouldn't— it's not a full-time job, but that's a good number of hours.

It's a good number of hours, yeah. And it's just really— people still appreciate it because they reply straight from that automatic reminder, and it comes to my email inbox. Thank you for the reminder, can we book it in for this date or whatever? So the whole system of it is really good.

Okay, so that's where the software automatically sends out the reminders for you, and it just kind of works off whatever the the date was for the last service.

Yeah, yeah, no, it is really good. Some people don't, you know, some people drop off, some people come back. That's just the way of business. But at the same time, that automatic reminder is very important because people do forget. And I appreciate that it's not the forefront of their, of their mind all the time.

Yeah, yeah, for them, you know, they have busy lives and yeah, it's probably not on their calendar.

No, but if you get a reminder system and then if you press reply to that reminder and it takes you straight to the engineer's email inbox, I mean, that's, that's great.

It's very easy for them.

Very easy. Yes, it was really handy as well to have the customer base as well. I didn't mention that. I didn't have anywhere.

So you didn't have like a central— so you had like the list of the invoices, but you didn't have like a, an address list of who your customers were?

No, I didn't.

Oh yeah, because it would have been on each of the certificates. Yeah, but you would have to manually enter that information into an Excel spreadsheet. Yeah.

So I— that's something that I think I wanted to do but never did because the task was too big. And that was one of the main things as well with the gas engineer software was that I have a list of customers and I've got all their contact details on it. And with oil, you generally can't find them because they live in the middle of nowhere. So you've got like a little note section where you can put the What3Words Okay, you use that in the notes field? Yeah, just in the little notes. So it's like, or, you know, Red Garage, or, you know, because a lot of our properties being oil are names, not numbers.

Okay, so it could be anywhere on that road.

So you get pinpointed like onto the postcode, but then it could be any one of those houses and there's no way of really— so it's especially when it comes to my partner Daniel going out and doing work, or Charlie when he comes of age and has his qualifications, knowing that that information is there so that they're not as dependent on me for the information. So they've got the What3words, they've got, you don't get any signal at this property, you know, just a little, it's just a thing. It's the thing, yeah.

By the way, you've kind of all, you've done that, all that effort to work it out and then you might as well, you know, make it easy for them, if you know what I mean. Do you ever, kind of, if you're doing the servicing, do you ever kind of look at the previous year's certificate at all, just to kind of like compare the two.

Yes, yeah, especially if they have like new oil tanks put in. Like Daniel will do a service and it would literally be exactly the same as the previous CD11 in terms of like the oil tank not being to regulations and various different things. But there are some cases where the customer has had the oil tank changed or they have changed something, so it is interesting. And I also use the CD11 to put, for example, what what charge the capacitor was on, so I can go back over the years and see how the charge has sort of dropped over the years. And just handy little bits of information that's specific to that boiler.

And you're doing that on site with your— on your tablet?

Yeah, I do it on my phone. Yeah, I don't even have a tablet. I'm in the process of trying to get an iPad to make it slightly easier, but I use my phone for it and the app system works great. And the good thing is, is that my partner Daniel also has access to that with the same username and password so that he can get access to the customer details. Else, and he knows like where he's going on the calendar and things like that. It just, it just makes sense to put it all in one place.

So he logs in under his account, he can still see the same data as you do?

Yes.

So do you use the, the kind of the history that much, like of the property? Like the— do you look back and see the previous kind of what you've done last time?

Yeah, I do. Yeah, because then it's, um, for example, if a capacitor fails, I look back on the history to see when the last time I changed it, and if it was within a year, then obviously would be under warranty, things like that. So it's just really handy to automatically have that information already there.

Okay. And if you had the CD-11s in paper form, obviously you wouldn't have any of this information.

No, it would all be at home, wouldn't it? You would be relying solely on the customer having that because you give the hard copy to them.

Okay.

But that's not gonna— that's not gonna— because people move, people lose it, they shred it or whatever, which is very annoying. So the amount of times I've actually caught people out where they say, oh, we had it serviced in so-and-so, and I'm like, 'Actually, it's been 3 years since we've been here.' And they go, 'Oh.' And then it's like, you know, you can't bullshit a bullshitter, if you know what I mean. You can edit that out, sorry. But it's nice to catch them out on, 'Oh, but you serviced it last year.' And I'm like, 'Well, actually, it's been 3 years since I've been here, and I've got that here on this software that I use.' So it is really handy to, especially for someone with ADHD, I struggle with memories, memory retention. And, you know, and when you have 600 customers, you can't keep on top of—

you can't remember, you can't remember everything.

So that, that history aspect of it is really handy, actually. I never thought about it quite until you asked that question. But yeah, I use it all the time to see what we've done, you know, and just various different aspects of it. It's really good.

What are you kind of— your favorite parts of the software?

I'm quite enjoying the calendar at the moment.

Is this because you've just recently started to use it?

Kind of, because unofficially we were using a different digital calendar system where it was, it was a free app and it was, Daniel had his work planned in and I had my work planned in and it was like, because we had synced our phones, we could see what each other had planned and because it was a free app and blah blah blah, jobs kept going missing, and it was a very unprofessional sort of— like, people would ring me up and say, 'I'm expecting Daniel here this morning, where are you?' And invite— and me as well, you know, I was, I was sat in the doctor's and someone's like, 'I'm expecting you at 10 o'clock today, where are you?' And I'm like, this, this app had completely deleted any of the, any of the work, which is really embarrassing because when you are dealing with 2 people and then once Charlie qualifies, you're then dealing with 3 people. People, all with their own schedules. It's quite difficult to keep on top of that with like pen and paper because you've then got to transfer that to Dan's diary. You've then done, you know, yada yada. So yeah, the last— I want to say the last 3 months, we've actually started using the calendar on the Gas Engineer software. And what I really like about it is that the customer details are already there and your—

the site address, the property address.

Yeah, yeah. So it's just—

and the boiler's details.

Exactly, the boiler details are there. The customer's there, that the history of that customer is there. So Dan now just clicks on 9 o'clock, he's going there, it automatically goes to like Apple or Google Maps on the— with the address. So I am quite enjoying that. And the fact that you can access it even if you don't have any internet.

Yes, as well.

That is massive because when we're in the middle of nowhere, we don't have signal. But if I sync his phone and he syncs and I sync my phone, etc., the calendar is sort of set in stone. And it's— nothing can affect that, and jobs don't disappear, which is really nice. So yeah, that's a, that's a new feature that we've only just started using.

I, I don't know if you noticed, but on the actual calendar, if you go into one of the calendar events, there's a button down the bottom there that says create certificate, and then it will, um, add the customer and the, and the, and the property address for you as well, and obviously the appliance details too.

Shut up! I did not realize that. I'm gonna have to look at that now. I'm gonna look at that in a sec. Yeah, I'm gonna need to look at that. But, um, Usually it's new record and then it's like I'm automatically doing it anyway. But it is really handy when you have repeat customers and the details are already there. Yeah, so handy. It's one less thing for me to keep in this, in this brain, which—

yeah, and there's less errors and, you know, everything's together, etc.

Yeah, when there's a paper trail, like, you know, that's set in stone and you can't— oh, you said this— or no, but it's there. I was here 3 years ago. My software says so. It's really handy. But in terms of my favorite feature, I think it is just the fact that I can digitally do the certificates and the invoicing without thought, like straight away. And it takes such less time. That's not very good grammar, but it takes a lot less.

How would you kind of compare it like the previous? Like, would you say half the time, you know?

Oh my God.

How would you kind of think about that?

So I would complete a service. I would then write out the certificate and then do the invoice, all written. That would take me about 10 minutes if I was on a good day. If the customer wants to talk to me, it would take 15, 20 minutes at the end. Now, less than 4 minutes and it's already done.

So you're actually filling in the certificate while you're actually doing the work?

Yeah.

So you get the readings, you put them in, you do a little bit. So how do you actually work?

No, it's, um, it's actually a little bit less than that because if it's a repeat customer, the boiler details are already there, the customer details are already there. Yeah, whereas the inspection, you just need the, the flue readings and the inspection part of it. Whereas if you're writing it out, you have to put customer details, boiler details, get the serial number. So yeah, it's a massive difference, but you— it's already there. So yeah, I'd say not even half, I'd say it's like even more than that, like a quarter less of the time that it takes. And then they're like, oh, can I And I like the feature that they can sign for it as well. They have the little signature at the end. So it's just so much easier than what I was doing before. It really is, especially when you get so busy that— and you have agents that have multiple properties and you have so many certificates and invoices to send.

Yeah, because I think you mentioned one of your customers had 20 different properties.

Yes. Yeah, it was them that made me think about when I was drowning because all the services would come at the same time and I would spend all week doing these 20 services and then I'd have to post them to Harrogate. And I just thought, there's got to be a better way of doing this. As a sole trader at the time, you think, I'm wasting my time here. That was one of the main things.

I'm assuming the letting agent also appreciated it. You get it through email, they can read it.

Yes.

They didn't have to scan it, you know.

No, yeah. They do appreciate it. And they're still customers to this day. And they are, it's just so simple. They say, service that boiler. I go, boop, there, it's done. And it's just so much simpler.

And what would you— what's your least favorite kind of feature?

My least—

because you use the certificates, you use the invoicing.

Yes, uh, I don't use the quote system.

You don't use the quote system? Okay.

I don't know why.

Um, do you link it to your account system?

No, I don't know how, and I'm too scared.

No, we can, we can walk through it if you want, but yeah, please, can we? Yeah, you can, you can link it so when you create the invoices on Gas Engineer Software it will get transferred over to your account system.

Stop it, you're going to give me no work to do when I get home.

That's the thing. That is the design, that's the plan. That's really good, is to take away all of this.

So can you link it to Xero?

So you can do all your invoicing in Gas Engineer Software. Yeah, your customers get transferred over, the properties get transferred, and the invoices get transferred over.

Awesome.

So when you're—

so when we're done here, we're going to go and learn to do that, aren't we?

We could do that, yes.

Because at the moment I individually type in each invoice into Xero.

Okay, there is a different way to do this.

Yeah. Oh my God.

So this will save you a bit more time.

I'm actually going to— oh wow, I'm going to have so much time. I'm going to have to think of another hobby.

Well, I think you have a hobby coming up. But for context, um, Holly is pregnant.

I am, yes. I have, um, just under 2 months to go.

I suspect you were not going to have a lot of free time.

No, so this, this whole amalgamation thing with Xero and— yeah, I didn't know how to do it, so I would be very interested to learn that.

You can call us anytime, you know.

Now that is something I'm very guilty of. I have not called you. I've just sort of learned— it's a very easy software to, to use. It does it all and it's very easy to, to learn, but when it comes to that I didn't want to mess it up. So yeah, I should have called you.

You can easily call us. Um, there's loads of training videos, there's loads of tutorials. But yeah, if you, if you don't want, if you can't be bothered watching the videos or reading the text, you can just, um, I can call you guys. Yeah, we can walk you through it, we can share a screen, and then we can just kind of go through.

Well, that is customer service.

So you're welcome anytime.

Yeah, definitely. I'm gonna I'm going to definitely learn how to do that because that would take away— as I said in a previous episode, that's when I did my, you know, I said my hard boundary was that I didn't work on a weekend, but I was working. I was just inputting things into Xero, my accounting.

So you weren't working on the boiler physicals?

No, I wasn't working on the tools, but like on a weekend would be when I do my quotes and things like that.

Yeah.

So yeah, I think that would be really handy to learn.

Thank you. Are you fed up with drowning in a pile of paperwork that comes with running your heating and plumbing business? Gas Engineer Software is an easy-to-use, all-in-one job management system made especially for UK heating and plumbing companies. From handling customer details to building quotes, issuing certificates, and sending invoices, Gas Engineer Software will help you save time, eliminate paperwork, and make running your business easy. Start a free trial by clicking in the link in the bio. Um, you also kind of mentioned in the previous episode about that, you know, when you leave the job site, you're actually— you've done the certificate, you've done the invoice.

Yes.

So you kind of— that loop is closed off, you don't have to think about it anymore, which is really important, I think, for someone—

for someone who's self-employed. I mean, I don't know whether to differentiate this between an ADHD brain versus a normal brain, but for me, I do have ADHD, so I— it's very handy for me as an ADHD person to just go bloop, right, that chapter is now closed on that job. So now I can move on to the next one. It's very sort of black and white in my mind. So the fact that the soft, the certificates and the invoicing is done and sent to the customer, they've signed for it, it's just like a full stop and then I can—

Well, the thing is you've sent that off and then within the software, I don't know whether you've noticed, but under the job jobs list, it will move from the jobs list onto the invoice one. So you can— yes, you know which jobs you've invoiced for.

Yes.

And on the invoice screen, you can obviously see which ones are being paid for or not.

That would be awesome.

Yeah.

Okay, I'm going to have to learn how to do that.

Yeah, we will do a demo. We'll, we'll go through this afterwards.

Oh my God.

So, but, um, yeah, that— I think— I don't think it matters what kind of brain you have, but if you, if you don't— if you have like so many open loops.

Yeah. It's overwhelming.

It's overwhelming, plus you're, you're actually less present on the tools when you're there.

Yeah, definitely.

Like, for me personally, like, if I have lots of open loops—

yeah, open loops, that's the— that is the term.

Yeah, I don't know, my ability to function in the present kind of like dies.

It just goes down.

Yeah, it's just, just—

I always liken it to spinning lots of plates.

Yeah, exactly.

And yeah, it's just nice to have that okay, that's done. And then you can move on with a clean slate almost into the next job, which is really good.

Yeah, because if you're kind of thinking in the van, must remember that, must remember that, I must remember that I did that extra bit on the side, or I put that extra pass on or something like that. Yeah. You know, if you miss that out, that means it's coming out of your profit.

Yep.

And you might not have made a profit on that job.

No, no. Which is obviously why we do it.

Anything else that you kind of— questions about the software that I could answer?

When the business expands more and Charlie has his own Oftec numbers. Yeah. He can issue his own certificates and we can have 2 engineers or 3 engineers on the same platform, each with their own calendar. That's something that I haven't done yet, but I look forward to that. I mean, it's something that I know that as the business grows, that the gas engineer software can sort of support that as well, having multiple engineers so that, I mean, I don't know what it looks like, but on the calendar system, I'm guessing you have, you know, you could have Charlie with his jobs and then Holly with her jobs and Daniel with his jobs. Is that something that—

Yeah, exactly. So you assign different people and then on the calendar view on the web, you can actually untick some of them so you can just see yours or Charlie's. And some of the larger companies that we have is with 50 engineers.

Yeah.

So it does scale.

Wow.

And you can change the colors, so it's a little bit easier to see as well.

Colors. Yeah.

Yeah, it's important.

That is important.

We are joking about it, but it is actually important. Like, if you need to glance at—

No, I'm being serious.

Yeah. If you glance at the calendar, you can see who it is straight away. You don't have to go into the details.

Yeah. No, it is, it is really good.

Yeah.

But yeah, that is, that is one feature I am definitely looking forward to, because then I can be like a mastermind, you know.

Yeah, because you can start grouping them, like you can see that Charlie is over in that area.

Yeah.

Especially because you, you know, for oil you're travelling quite a long way.

Correct, yeah. So whatever we can get in the same area. So like for example, we have, I call it a Sevenoaks day, where we travel up to Sevenoaks and we do like 3 or 4 in that area. And then we'll have like an Ashford day, or a Canterbury day.

These are long distances.

They are very long distances. I started the business when I was living in Swanley, so that's why we— and now I live near Dungeness. So I've gone from one end of the county to the other. So that's why there's like a sense of loyalty, I suppose, with customers that have been with me for years. I will travel to them because it's not their fault I decided to live by the sea and, you know, and have this house. But at the same time, it's, as a business perspective, it's very important for customer relations to keep going back. And they trust you, they know you, they, you know. And then at the same time, you've got to try and group everyone together so that you are doing multiple ones in one day so that your profits are not as affected.

Well, it's just not physically possible to get from one side to the other.

No, which is a decision that we have to make. So the first question I always ask is, where are you? Just so that I can see if I can put it in. And then with the calendar system, you can see what, on a daily basis, what everyone's work is that is already booked in, and you can see as you flick along whether you can fit people in. And it's great in that when you sync it on your phone, it uploads it, and even without any mobile internet, you can—

you can still use it all, and then next time it connects, it will—

correct. Yeah, yeah. And things just don't disappear, which is nice.

That is crucial.

It's crucial.

But the other thing is that you can actually see all of the details on, um, the properties as well. So if you went into the properties, let's say you weren't doing a service, it was a breakdown or something, you could see that on the history as well.

Yeah, I mentioned the history is quite important actually. Knowing, especially the way that I was doing it before was so inefficient with all these bits of paper and everything. Like there would be, well, I only did it for, I say I only did it for about 4 years. Yeah, 4 years I did it that way.

That's quite a length of time.

That is quite a length of time. And I feel like I've got more efficient, obviously I have got more efficient since using the digital digital software, but I wouldn't be able to tell you, like, from one year to the next what I had changed previously. I didn't really have easy access to the history of that boiler. It would just be my memory, which isn't the best thing.

It's not possible to remember everything.

No, no. I remember what dogs they have. I love dogs. So whenever they're like, oh, it's so-and-so, and I'm like, oh, have you got the golden retriever? And they're like, yeah, how do you know that? I'm like, it's just a weird thing I remember. But as to what I changed on their boiler the previous year, No idea. So it is handy to have that.

Well, I really appreciate having you as a customer.

Thank you.

And thank you very much for your time to come in here.

Okay.

And we wish you all the very best with your, um, with your new chapter. New chapter, yes. That's an exciting chapter.

Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.