The Mistake That Loses You Customers (And You Don't Even Realise) w/ Alexa MacArthur

You feel that you've been undervalued when you've gone, you've made the effort, you've quoted something and you've done the work, you've given them your time and they obviously had no intention of paying. And it may be because their circumstances are very tricky and it's a sad situation, but you also have to pay your bills and feed your family and it's a knock-on effect.

What do you think about the statement, the customer's always right?

It's tricky because they're the bill payer and in some instances I think the customer is right, but I don't think they're always right. Doesn't matter what you do, how how amazing a job you do, how polite and communicative you are, they'll never be happy. And, you know, it's, it's just sometimes better to walk away. But also, you know, the customers who you love working with, you know, they might question you at times, which is great because it shows.

This is the Field Rocket Podcast. I'm your host, Tully Priest, and today we're joined by Alexa. Alexa has been in the trades for over a decade now, working your way up to being a director of a heating and plumbing company. To now working with Gas Engineer Software. Throughout her career, Alexa's job roles have all shared a focus on good customer relations. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

Running a successful trades business is just as much about having happy customers as it's being good with the tools. But while tradespeople get ample training in their industry, knowing how to deal with customers is often something learned the hard way through experience, Trial and error. Today's episode is going to be all about why you need to place such focus on good customer relations and how you can achieve them. In a sentence or two, why should people care about this conversation?

I think the reality is that, like it or not, if you have customers, then you are in customer relations. You know, even as an engineer, as a restaurant owner, whatever you might be, any trade, any industry with customers is all around customer relations. And a happy customer will recommend you, they will come back for more work, and an unhappy one will be very quick to make it difficult for you.

And a very simple question, how do you get happy customers?

I think building a relationship with them, you know, getting to know them and listening to them and making sure that they understand what you're delivering. What, you know, what are you selling? What are you supplying for them? And, you know, how can you help them?

How, for example, like if somebody requests like a new boiler or a quote for a boiler, how would you actually apply that?

So if they're coming in for, you know, whether it's an email or whether it's a reactive, you know, new boiler, if something's broken, it would be an approach to what they need. So making sure they have the correct materials for the system and the boiler specification, and also for what they want. So if they want to potentially look to upgrade to something greener, you know, whether there's an option for that sort of thing. But I think listening, but also making sure they understand the options, you know, especially for the trades. I think people can be very intimidated by tradespeople. It's not their expertise, and it's not something that they feel comfortable asking questions about often. Um, and, uh, and I think it can be a fear factor. So being open and approachable, um, can be a real help for that relationship you build with them.

Okay, because a majority of customers probably don't know that much about boilers.

Exactly.

And if you— so you're suggesting if, if you actually find out what their needs are come up with a few different options, explain the differences between them. Anything else that you could kind of make the easier for the customer?

I think explaining what you'll be doing, you know, what will the work involve, how long will it take, what will the impact be, you know, what the pros and cons are of certain elements to it as well. I think just giving a general understanding and also why it's necessary. You know, sometimes if something's working, people can't understand why it might need replacing, but it might be something which is preventative for a sort of catastrophic failure in the very near future. Or, you know, there might be something which seemingly seems, is seemingly small, but actually could be causing a much bigger problem. So I think maybe an understanding of the reasons around it and just making the customer feel like they're part of it, you know, they're part of the decision and they have options. And, you know, if you only choose to install one type of boiler, one manufacturer, then explain the reason why. Do you have a better warranty? Are you a, you know, an affiliated installer? That sort of thing. Explain your reasons around it, but also don't be closed off to somebody else's choice. They're the customer. It's their product at the end of the day. They're going to be using it and paying for it.

So I'm going to say they need to be informed, plus be part of their decision-making.

Hi, Producer Alex here, wondering if you knew that you aren't subscribed to the channel. Well, specifically, 93% of you are not subscribed, and we really appreciate you tuning in right now, but you're missing out on even more interesting content. You're already this far into the episode, so why not subscribe to the Gas Engineers Software YouTube channel? Because showing your support genuinely makes a difference. It's free, takes a second to click, and helps us continue to make the content that you want to listen to. Speaking of, let's get back to it.

Sometimes you see, so like on the actual quotes and stuff, how would you kind of, would you actually explain like the reasons? Like let's say you had power flush on the quote. Mm-hmm. What's like, you know, power flush, you know, people might not know what a power flush is.

I'd imagine most people don't know what a power flush is. The problem with so many systems now is if they're not maintained correctly, the chemical reaction between the water and the pipework can cause a sort of a sludge buildup. And there's a chemical called inhibitor added to heating systems to help. It stops that chemical reaction and it helps to avoid the buildup of sludge. And it should be maintained, it should be topped up, and if the system's drained down, it needs to be you know, added in the correct amount afterwards. This doesn't always happen. So routine servicing and that sort of thing, it's, you know, they should in theory be checking things like inhibitor. So if you come to need a new boiler, it's good practice to check if the system needs a power flush, which is effectively putting a big machine onto your heating system and flushing it through. So what it does is it just cleans out the pipework. And also I think some manufacturers now will— it will invalidate a warranty if you don't have one done. So it may even be a problem in the future if it's not, you know, if there's a problem with the boiler.

Okay, so if you actually explain it up front, because there is a kind of a danger, like if you see like just a list of options, do you want a power flush, yes, no?

It's expensive. It's expensive, it is expensive.

But it also comes across as, Or there's a chance that it comes across that it's a kind of an add-on, unnecessary. Trying to make some money. Trying to make some money. There's a bit of a hustle in there because of that unknown.

I think it's the explanation, isn't it? If, you know, with anything you're buying, if you see the added extras, if you understand what they are and why they're there, you're going to be far more likely to, you know, to purchase one of them and rather than sort of bamboozling somebody with just your knowledge and your information. You need this because I've told you. Well, why? You know, I've got every right to ask the question as to why.

I think it also depends, like, if your intent is to be helpful, you know, that will come across.

Yeah, absolutely.

And the actions and stuff will be kind of natural out of that.

Yeah, and the listening, you know, whether it's dealing with a problem situation or a quote situation, Making that customer feel like, you know, they've got your attention, you're listening to them, because I think it's one of the key things that people don't tend to listen very well. So that's a huge part of it.

So the customer needs to be heard.

Hm, hugely so, and feel kind of flattered and feel looked after. And, you know, you build up a relationship with these people because they come back to you for repeat work and they make you money.

How much time do you think this kind of takes? Because, you know, when you're out and about, you know, you don't have that much time and if your first job slightly overrun, you know, is this, are you saying a lot more time or is it for these kind of things or you think it's?

I don't think it's, you know, going to take you lots of extra time. It's just, I think when you do arrive on site, when you are around those customers, you know, you're not just buzzing around on your phone to somebody else constantly. It's just being polite, answering a question and especially I think with a quote, if there are questions being asked, You need to make that time, I think, to ensure that the person understands what you're quoting. Because what if somebody else allows another 10 minutes because they explain something more clearly and, you know, ask them exactly what they wanted and listened? What if they get the job instead because you had to rush off somewhere else? It's the nature of the business that, you know, you might be working all hours of the day, but actually taking the time for certain people or certain customers could be far more beneficial than running around for people that maybe just give you a one-off job.

Yeah, especially if it's a customer that you want.

Absolutely. Yeah. You're willing to bend over backwards for them.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Willing to go the extra mile for them.

You've worked in a number of different industries, including the trades. What's, sort of, customer service-wise, what's a theme that kind of runs across the different industries?

I think there generally can be an avoidance for a lot of trades companies, but also, you know, in other industries as well, that people don't like to acknowledge that it's such an important part of their day-to-day. I think, you know, the more I've worked within, you know, with customers, I've realized that it's something you have to make sort of, you know, right up there with the actual job you're doing. It's just as important. So I think that, yeah, it's interesting how, yeah, I think especially in the trades, people tend to avoid problems, you know, they won't, they won't chase something up or even silly things, you know, credit control, you know, you don't want to ask that question about money because nobody likes to, but actually by keeping on top of unpaid invoices regularly will be far easier than, than having to call someone after a month or so and politely, "Oh, did you get my invoice?" And it becomes more awkward. It, people don't like confrontation, asking difficult questions. And I think especially when there's a problem, for example, and that customer has raised an issue as to why they're not paying their invoice. And it can often get, I think, you know, if you've done the job and you think you've done it correctly and nicely, you know, it can make you a bit defensive and it can make you, you know, want to justify your reasons for doing certain things. And it's an easy mistake to, I think, react negatively. A lot of people will just avoid it and maybe sometimes even not chase payment for it because they don't want to acknowledge it.

How do you deal with those kind of situations where, you know, there's two very different kind of viewpoints?

I think from my experience of dealing with them, everyone is different and you have to get as much information as possible. Sometimes if people are just trying not to pay, they won't be particularly open to give information. You know, even if you ask to do a site visit or to talk through the problem, send me some pictures, you know, let's discuss what the issue was. And that will, I think, make them feel quite valued if you will take the time to go and see what the problem was. It may have just been an issue with a personality clash with the person that was doing the work in their house. Did they not take their shoes off? Did they not hoover up after themselves? Silly things, but it can really leave a bit of a bitter taste in that person's mouth. And when they receive a bill after the job is done, even if the job has been done perfectly, if they, I don't know, didn't take the rubbish away, didn't hoover, didn't, I don't know, something minor, they might just, be irritated by it.

So it's not that they don't want to pay, but there was some other kind of like frustration or misunderstanding in there.

Don't get me wrong, some people just don't want to pay. Okay.

Is it? This is a bit of a tangent, but is that a really big problem?

It's not a really big problem. I think it's a, it can be a painful problem. I think especially now with, you know, everyone's feeling the squeeze of, you know, what's going on with Prices rising and often, you know, within plumbing and heating, within other trade companies, the work is necessary. It's not, you know, you're not having this done because it's for aesthetic reasons, it's because you have to have it done. And actually, if you need a new boiler because it's broken in the middle of winter, it's a pain in the backside because, you know, you might not have the money at that time but you've got no choice to do it. And I know a lot of companies now will actually ask for money upfront. Because it's easy for somebody to get that boiler installed and then suddenly say, "Oh, actually I can't pay you." So I think people have learned the hard way and will often, even if it's just materials, they'll ask for some money up front. You know, it's difficult because you feel that you've been undervalued when you've gone, you've made the effort, you've quoted something and you've done the work, you've given them your time, and they obviously had no intention of paying. And it may be because their circumstances are very tricky and it's a sad situation, but you also have to pay your bills and feed your family and it's a knock-on effect. So it's, every situation's different.

Sort of going back to where there's a kind of a misunderstanding. How do you kind of like approach the, you mentioned about not being defensive, but how do you actually get it in a way that you actually work out? 'Cause you might not actually know what the frustration was.

Speak to the customer, listen to the problem, Try maybe speak to the engineer who was on site, try and get the best picture you can. And if you honestly can't find a solution, you may have to take a hit. You may have to make a reduction if you're stuck with it, you know, that you might just have to appease the situation to keep the customer happy and maybe cover your costs because you weren't there. You know, if you weren't witness to, you know, what had happened, it's a tricky one to solve.

Okay, so this would be if you're leading a team, but if you're in in person. What do you think about the statement, the customer's always right?

It's tricky because they're the bill payer, and in some instances I think the customer is right, but I don't think they're always right. But you have to make sure that you protect yourself enough, you know, to fight your own corner. Silly things, let's give an example. Let's say you've done a quote for something and you've recommended an additional piece of work that may not be necessary right now, 'But from your experience and your expertise, you said that this problem will occur probably within the next couple of months, and I would highly recommend you replace this particular part.' By giving that information, sending an email, or putting it on your quote, by having it in black and white as a paper trail, you've covered yourself. So if that problem does come to light—

it's not from the original install or whatever—

exactly. And they didn't go ahead with it when you recommended it, they can't blame you. So it's maybe trying to protect yourself as much as you can, and You know, by using software, by making sure you keep a paper trail, by avoiding a conversation or a text message, being more professional will protect you more so.

Okay, and I'm guessing sort of up-to-date terms and conditions.

Exactly.

Um, yeah, all of the, all of those kind of elements. Anything else above that that you could do to protect yourself? Would suggest like photographs, um, on-site work before.

Yeah, so some of the, some of the great features on Gas Engineer software, you know, The ability to take a picture of a problem when on site, it's something that we always used to use. And if there was a mark on the carpet before you started the job, take a picture, make a note of it, anything like that, which can just, you know, be used as a backup to protect as well.

Um, okay. And that's just uploaded to the software and it's all in the same job.

Exactly. And then when you look at the job's history, everything is there, you know, for as long as the job is there, you know, it will never disappear. So even when it's been invoiced and paid, you can still look back at that job's history, see exactly what was done and when it was done.

You've worked with a lot of different customers, or different types of customers. How would you kind of, what kind of things would you be looking for, or what would you be kind of thinking about with the different types, when we talk about types of customers?

I think you have to be very careful about putting people into sort of categories, don't you?

But surely there's like, if people behave in a certain way, the chances are that those patterns are going to carry on.

There's very much a, you know, I'm sure everyone's got their blacklist. I'm sure people, you know, when you have a big customer base, will end up making choices on who they don't want to do work with. You know, you'll have the ones which doesn't matter what you do, how amazing a job you do, how polite and communicative you are, they'll never be happy. And, you know, it's just sometimes better to walk away and you'll waste time, you'll waste energy, and it will just end up annoying you.

So those sorts of customers So these customers are just not a good fit for your business?

No, and it's almost like a sort of, you know, they resent having to pay trades to do things. It's, you know, I don't know, it's strange, but some people just aren't happy. You'll have the ones who, once the job is completed, will try and renegotiate. You know, it's a, you charged me for, or you quoted me for half a day, they're only here for 2 hours. And I think the way that you get around that is when you get to know those sorts of customers, you don't break down your invoice or don't break down your quotes to materials and labor, or you offer them an hourly rate. That might make some people happier. The ones I think they always know best, telling you what to do, how to do your job, how to quote, what to quote for, that sort of thing. But also, you know, the customers who you love working with. So that's another persona, I guess, which is the great one. They're the, you know, they might question you at times, which is great because it shows they have the, the confidence and they're comfortable with you to do that, which is show, you know, showing a great relationship. But also that they trust you. They trust what you do for them, and you know, they know that you might not be the cheapest, but that you'll look after them.

Are you fed up with drowning in a pile of paperwork that comes with running your heating and plumbing business? Gas Engineers Software is an easy-to-use, all-in-one job management system made especially for UK heating and plumbing companies. From handling customer details to building quotes, issuing certificates, and sending invoices, Gas Engineer Software will help you save time, eliminate paperwork, and make running your business easy. Start a free trial by clicking in the link in the bio. I think there's kind of a danger, like, with the ones that, like, the, um, the customers that are not a good fit, you know, they can consume a lot of your time, resources, um, and, um, if you put that time and resources into your, uh, you know, the customers that are a good fit, you know, you would get far more out of it. But the downside is that the ones that are not a good fit, they are almost like a squeaky wheel. They kind of demand attention. But then you need to be intentional about the good customers.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think often what you'll find with, especially in the trade, is a customer which is maybe more demanding or asks too many questions. They are the ones that for a lot of people will just get avoided. They won't get the phone calls answered, they won't get the questions responded to because it will just be, oh, I haven't got time for this. And I think that's where a lot of maybe sole traders, you know, that maybe that's why they struggle more because of time. And, you know, if you have more of an office base with administrators or an administrator, they're the ones that maybe can give them that time a bit more and listen to them slightly more. But they're all customers. They all come in different shapes and sizes and they will, you know, drive you up the wall sometimes, but also they can make you smile and will be grateful for what you've done for them.

Yeah, and then it's kind of tricky. You need to separate whether this is a one-off or is this like an ongoing kind of pattern.

You've had a bad day.

Yes, but it's, you know, I think it's really important just to be intentional about looking after the good ones. Because there is a danger of, like, if you're not careful, you just kind of get sucked into the non-good-fit customers. And then you actually end up with more and more of them. So whatever you focus on, you get more of.

More of them. I remember there was one situation with a customer who had been with us for a long time from one company that came over to another company, and we had a great relationship, but one Christmas his boiler died, and he— it was just before Christmas, but we were looking to replace it, and then there was a problem. He actually had two boilers, so there was a backup boiler, but he was demanding it be replaced before Christmas. And there was a problem with the boiler coming in in time, and he got very aggressive about it and was just being very demanding, and I didn't give in, and I stood up and I explained the exact reasons around it, and after it happened, he actually apologised and accepted it was out of our hands and we just dealt with it as best we could, and we actually did end up installing before Christmas, but after that situation, we had a far better relationship because I think the element of trust was there. He knew that we'd bent over backwards to get it done and that we did all that we could. And I think it generated such a relationship of trust and an effort made. Yeah, and it was a really good working relationship thereafter. I mean, he used to recommend us to, you know, various people, and that's the kind of relationship that you want with customers.

So a superfan.

Yeah, absolutely. The ones that will quite happily tell you that you're too expensive, 'But we'll have to pay you because we like you.' It's that kind of relationship that you want.

Yeah, those are the customers that you want.

Yeah.

But I think if you have your good customers, and if you do invest that extra time in those good customers, and you can convert them to a super fan, just exactly like your example. If there's something that goes wrong with one of your good customers, you can go the extra mile, sort it out, whatever it is. I believe that's how you can actually move them from a normal customer up to a super fan.

Yeah.

And by superfan, I mean exactly like you're saying, they recommend you. Yeah. And to everyone.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, willing to do testimonials, reviews, you know, all of those kind of things.

Yeah. And I think also owning any problem, you know, if you can say to somebody, you know, look, I've just completed this job, but I have to admit this, I got a little mark on the carpet, or some, whatever it might be, actually don't try and hide things and own up to something or, just, you know, deal with a problem. If it's— even if it might cost you a little bit of money, the customer will be so grateful that you've been honest.

And you were upfront. Yeah, you mentioned it before they actually found it.

Don't be, don't be the one to get that call to say, sorry to have to do this, but, you know, we found such and such. And it's— it reflects really badly on you as a company. And I think People are often embarrassed if they mess up. I think especially engineers, they tend to be quite proud of what they do. And they, you know, as an industry, it can be quite unkind to learners, apprentices. There's always a mockery around it. And I think when somebody is learning, there's a fear of owning up to, you know, maybe something they've made a mistake with in fear of what others might say.

And do you think they're kind of like, if you, you need to actually be upfront? Mm-hmm. But there will be some concerns about whether it opens you up to like additional costs, work, and all of those kind of things.

Which potentially it will. But if you own up to something and, you know, you rectify it, you know, with your own money and you sort that problem out, the likelihood is that that customer will be really grateful that you did that. They'll come back to you for work and actually recommend you and support you throughout your learning process. There's not one engineer out there, there's not one tradie out there who isn't an expert of everything. Everyone is learning and everyone can make mistakes. You know, you could have an engineer that's been doing it for 30, 40 years that can make a silly mistake, and it doesn't mean they're a bad person or they've done it on purpose or they're losing their ability. It just means we're human. But owning up to it and sorting it out is is the best thing to do, and just don't run away from it. Ignoring customers is the worst thing to do.

So just being upfront and then just sorting it out.

Absolutely.

Treating people with basically respect.

Yeah, I think customers want to feel listened to, that they, you know, that you are giving them some of your time and that there's some respect there as well. You know, it's the age-old thing, isn't it, that nobody wants to have to chase to give you work.

No.

That's just going to annoy you.

It does. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you very much for coming on to the podcast.

Thank you for having me.

We really appreciate your input and your time. So thank you.

Thank you.