What Technicians Get WRONG in OFTEC Inspections w/ John Vinter

Manufacturer's instructions are very important. If you don't fit it to that, we're going to pick you up on it. Sometimes guys think they'll open the manufacturer's instructions, say, "Well, it says here that." Yeah, but actually the building regulations are more strict than that document, and you have to follow the building regulations. So you need to think about both. If there is a leak on the tank, you know, the insurance provider, they've got lots of lawyers, and they'll come over after that poor little technician who only serviced the boiler and thought, well, I'm not going to bother with the tank. Even, you know, if you're not working on the tank, do a risk assessment on it. Tell the customer about the condition of it or put it in writing to the customer that I haven't looked at that tank. I'm not taking any responsibility for it.

This is the Field Rocket podcast. I'm your host, Tulik Priest, and today we're joined by John Vinter. John works at OFTEC as the Inspection Service Manager. And it's been in the industry for over 40 years now. Welcome to the show, John.

Thank you, nice to be here.

Yeah, thank you for coming. Inspections aren't supposed to be daunting, but yet many engineers dread the prospect of getting their work checked. We've had a GasSafe inspector on the podcast before, and today we're inviting John to share insights from the world of Oftec and oil inspections. Why should people care about this conversation?

I don't think anybody likes being inspected. Like death and taxes, it's part of life today. You're going to be inspected, particularly if you're joining a Competent Person scheme like ours. Yes, I mean, many, many engineers will have had inspections with other schemes. Ours is no different, but it's not something to be frightened of. We're not trying to trip you up. We're not trying to make ourselves look big and clever. It's something you have to do if you're part of a Competent Person scheme like the OFTEC scheme.

What should the engineers expect?

Really, when you get, when you're called for an OFTEC inspection, if it's your first inspection or whether it's a routine one, you'll be contacted by the inspector. So you'll get a telephone call from him, he'll introduce himself, and you can ask any questions at that point you've got. He'll tell you what the process is, and then together you'll agree a mutually convenient date. And when the inspector does that, he will send you an audit plan. Which really tells you everything you need to know about the inspection process, what we're going to be looking for, what you need to do to get yourself ready for the inspection. So we're not trying to trip you up, it's a clear process there. Read— the most important thing is to read the attachments that are sent with your confirmation letter. You'll get the audit plan and you'll get the rules of registration. Read them, that will get you totally ready. for the inspection process.

Yeah. You kind of mentioned like the first inspection and a routine inspection.

Yes.

Is there a difference between those two?

Yes, there is. When you first join Oftec, you'll have an initial inspection where we'll come out, um, we'll explain what, what all about Oftec, uh, and it's the first time we've met you. It's the first time we've audited you. That, that will take place within the first, uh, 3 months of you contacting us. So we have that initial inspection. Then there's another annual inspection the following year. And another annual inspection following that. And depending on those 3 inspections, how they've gone, a risk assessment is then done of your company. And if, if you've passed all the inspections with flying colors, then you'll be put on a 5-yearly regime to be inspected. If it hasn't gone quite so well, I mean, it, it's, it depends how those inspections have done, we may wish a more frequent approach. So it might be annual, it might be 2-yearly. A decision will be made on, you know, your company and how the inspections have gone up to that point. And then the vast majority of companies do get onto a 5-yearly regime, and, you know, every 5 years we'll come out and we'll do the same inspection again.

So you've got these regular kind of inspections. What about if, like, if there's a custom customer complaint or something like that?

Yes, that will, um, a customer complaint will be investigated, um, and, uh, if that, that may result in an inspection that happens outside of the cycle, a customer complaint inspection, which will happen on site at the customer's property. But we would talk to the business. There are always two sides to any story. And, uh, yes, certainly we will deal fairly with the business in that, um, if a customer complains, uh, is, uh, generated, then yeah, the inspector will be on site alongside the technician, um, to discuss. To be honest with you, the, the customer complaint inspections don't happen very often. Usually the customer and the technician will talk to each other, um, and it won't get to that stage where, you know, it's quite a serious thing if they've— if the relationship has broken down so far. So it's unusual. They do happen And then the inspector will produce a report which will be shared with both the customer and the technician.

Okay, and what kind of things that normally sort of come up or get missed?

On a routine inspection, say. I think the biggest problem that technicians have is with heat loss calculations. You mentioned that you've had the Gas Safe inspector in, and A lot of our technicians are both gas and oil, but they tend— because the gas market is so much bigger, they tend to have a gas mindset when they approach oil. It's a very different regulatory regime.

What's the difference between the two?

Well, the difference between the two is GasSafe will monitor you to the Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations, and it's mandatory to be part of GasSafe. An OFTEC inspection is based on the on British Standards and on the manufacturer's instructions. These are the documents we're going to be looking at when we come out to inspect you. So it's a different regulatory environment. Now, for instance, gas boilers, um, heat loss calculations are required by building regulations whether it's oil or whether it's gas. But the thing about a gas boiler is it will modulate right down. So you can have an 18-kilowatt gas boiler that will modulate right down to say 4 or 5 kilowatts, which means heat loss calculations aren't so critical. Cyclical, it really will modulate down. An oil-fired boiler, the vast majority of oil boilers, they don't modulate. There are one or two that modulate, but they don't modulate like a gas boiler does, getting right down to the low stuff. So heat loss calculations are essential. They're a part of the building regulations. Part L requires heat loss calculations, and for an efficient oil boiler, you really need to do those heat loss calculations. That needs to happen, because if a boiler is too big for the installation, it hits the efficiency of the boiler. And so, yeah, the building regulations do state it mustn't be significantly oversized. And we find that technicians go in to install an oil boiler and they have a gas head on, and they don't really grasp that actually the heat loss calculations on an oil firing installation, and indeed a non-gas installation, you know, for other fuels as well, it's really important. So I would emphasize that heat loss calculations, there's some great software out there, um, to do it. Um, Heat Engineer, MCS, there's free software that you can use that will enable you to do that. So I'd really encourage technicians to get on top of that one. It's an important one.

Yeah. And when you're talking about, um, the gas kind of thinking, I'm assuming that, um, the tendency is to oversize the oil boilers. Is that correct?

Yeah. I mean, also oil boilers, a lot of them There was a big boom in central heating in the '60s and '70s, and a lot of the oil boilers went in there and have been replaced several times since then. Now, back in the '70s, I mean, I perhaps— you're probably not old enough to remember this, but I can remember, you know, ice on the inside of the windows. We had single glazing, we didn't have any cavity wall, we didn't have loft insulation. Boilers may have been correctly sized then, but that doesn't mean they're right now. Because, you know, a lot of properties have been insulated. It's relatively cheap and easy to do. They've had replacement windows that are now very efficient, and you need to do that heat loss calculation. You may well find that the boiler is quite oversized, and the customer can make savings. And when an installation is done properly and is heat loss calculated, often the customer will come back and say, I'm saving oil. I'm saving money. So it really does, it really is good for the customer, it's good for the reputation of your business. Yeah, heat loss calculations, very important. It's also important to keep your heat loss calculations. Another thing we require is that the calculations are kept for 6 years, which some companies don't recognize that it is in the rules of registration that you do document and you do keep documentation. So again, that's an important one that sometimes can you know, fall by the wayside because we're busy, we're out, you know, installing. Um, that sort of keeping the paperwork right side can fall by the wayside sometimes. So these are issues that we do find come up. Yeah.

Okay. And any other kind of issues, like, I know, like a technical, like checking the boiler themselves, anything else that kind of—

Yeah, I mean, heat loss calculations, it is massive. I mean, technically the guys tend to be pretty good because they're used to installing central heating. Um, Generally, we find the standard is very good in the industry. I think oil tanks is an area that perhaps sometimes technicians don't fit a lot of oil tanks, and very often when an oil tank is fitted, we'll find that perhaps it's too close to the boundary, it's too close to combustibles, or the base isn't big enough. You need 300mm all the way around the base, and sometimes we find it's 295. Well, it says 300 or more, So you do need to get that right. It is a requirement for environmental and for fire protection reasons. So yeah, that's another area that technicians do sometimes struggle with. But I would say that Hofftec Technical are there to help technicians. If you're a registered technician, you have access to Hofftec Technical. If you're in any doubt, you can just phone in, talk to them. They're great guys. And even if, you know, if it's an obscure question or a difficult question, they absolutely absolutely love it. They rub their hands together with glee when they've got something a little bit strange to do. And yeah, if we— we don't always have the answer straight to our fingertips, but we'll get back to you very quickly with it. So yeah, do use OffTech Technical, a great resource for technicians, you know, to be used.

Okay, any other kind of tips for the sort of an engineer that's about to be inspected?

Um, yeah, I can't say, say it enough, read the information we give you. Everything you need to do is there. If you've read, uh, the audit plan and do everything that it says in there, have that information ready, you will have done run well. Have a site ready for us, inspect something that you have installed that we can go out and look at, you, you'll be done well, particularly if you're not hunting for paperwork on the day. You've got the paperwork ready to, you know, ready for us.

I mean, you kind of mentioned earlier about the different kind of regulations.

Yeah.

You rely on the— whether you base some of it on the manufacturer, does that change from manufacturer to manufacturer?

Well, it does, yes. But again, most technicians, again from the gas world, they will read the manufacturer's instructions. It is a problem because in the gas world, you know, the manufacturer's instructions are it. You read those, those are high up the food chain. It's very similar in the oil world. Manufacturer's instructions are very important. If you don't fit it to that, we're going to pick you up on it. But you also have to take into account the building regulations, Approved Document J, Approved Document L, and what's stated in there. If the two are in conflict, then it is the most arduous of the two that you you follow. So that needs to be stated. Sometimes guys think they'll open the, the manufacturer's instructions, say, well, it says here that— yeah, but actually the building regulations are more strict than that document, and you have to follow the building regulations. So you need to think about both. Most of the time the manufacturers are up with it. Just occasionally we'll find a manufacturer whose, uh, instructions aren't as strict as the building regs, so it's worth just checking it, particularly things like flues, distances to windows distances to boundaries, etc. Yeah, whatever it says in there, just check against Approved Document J, which again tells you all those distances. And it's distances that technicians are used to doing, you know, all the time. They're thinking, can this go there? What are the distances? So it should be second nature, but just check on the, on the building regulations before you do it.

It's quite interesting, it's not one that takes precedence over the other one. It's actually the most strict.

It's the most strict of the two, yes. Yes, it is.

In the Gas Safe world, you have the unsafe situations, and do you have something— what is it in the oil world?

Yes, it is, and I'm glad you brought that up actually, because it is slightly different. Gas Safe have immediately dangerous and at risk. We classify slightly differently: immediate risk and potential risk. So with an immediate risk, there is an immediate risk that this is dangerous, or there's an immediate risk of it creating an environmental spill. Say oil spilling out onto the ground, contaminating ground. Potential risk is, well, there's a potential that it might happen at some time in the future.

Does it have like a set time frame?

No, I mean, it potentially might happen. So for instance, if a technician was to go out to a rusty tank, that's not an immediate risk. It's not actually dripping oil on the floor, but you buy, you know, a technician can judge in their engineering judgment that potentially might be a problem. And it's very important that a technician reports on the condition of the oil tank, because if there is a spill of oil, the customer will claim against— because if there's a spill of oil on the ground, the Environment Agency can get you to clean it up, which costs thousands of pounds. So the customer then claims on their insurance, and the insurance company says, well, have you had someone out to look at the boiler? Yes, I have. And then immediately the insurance company will be after the oil firing technician. And I've recently moved to a house with oil in it, and it's one of the questions my insurer was asking. You know, when you go online, have you got oil? Right, has the boiler been looked at by a competent technician? And behind it is the idea that if there is a leak on the tank, you know, the insurance provider, they've got lots of lawyers, and they'll come over after that poor little technician who only serviced the boiler and thought, well, I'm not going to bother with the tank. Even, you know, if you're not working on the tank, do a risk assessment on it. Tell the customer about the condition of it, or put it in writing to the customer that I haven't looked at that tank, I'm not taking any responsibility for it. And this is one of the things that we do highlight to technicians on the inspection, because on top of being a regulatory thing, the inspection is also an opportunity to talk about issues in the industry and things that might potentially come back and be a problem for the technician like that. So yes, unsafe situations are important. We like our technicians to know exactly what they're going to do. We— there is a procedure, put a label on it, photograph it, so there's no doubt that you saw that tank where there was a potential risk of a leak of oil and you've done something about it.

If it's like immediately unsafe, what kind of steps— like, and are they kind of— I think the point I'm kind of getting to is that, is there kind of situations which, and, you know, are confusing, like the end, you know, it's kind of slightly on the border and you're just not quite sure which way you should go with this?

Yeah, I mean, of course, with, with gas, an immediately dangerous situation, if the customer won't switch the equipment off You can contact National Grid, who one of their happy smiling people will come out and cut the house off completely from the grid. So there is that fallback. With oil it isn't. The oil in the tank belongs to the customer. The equipment belongs to the customer. An awful lot of technicians, when you talk to them about unsafe situations, will say, well, I'll disconnect the appliance. No, it's the customer's appliance. You can't actually do that without their permission. You've got to have permission.

So, so you would say that this is immediately unsafe?

Immediate risk.

Immediate risk. Okay, so I'm still thinking gas. And then, then it's up to the customer's judgment?

No, it's, it's immediate. It's, it's, it's— I consider this to be an immediate risk. As you've called me in to look at your boiler, I'm telling you this is dangerous. With your permission, I would like to disconnect it. And if the customer says no to that, then you document that they've said no. You put a label on the appliance and photograph it, and you get the customer to sign and keep that paperwork. So if it does come back, you have evidence that you told the customer this. You've got a signature there, you've got a label on the boiler, do not use, it's been photographed, which covers you. It's not the same, and a lot of technicians think it's the same as gas. I can just muscle in there, put a cap on it. I mean, yes, I'd love you to put a cap on it. Most customers will say yes, please, it's dangerous, I don't want to kill my family. Occasionally, well, you Customers are customers. You will occasionally get one who says, over my dead body, you're not switching that off, which puts you in a very difficult position. Because if you do cap it off without their permission, um, it's criminal damage. You're damaging their equipment without their permission. So you need to get that permission. If it ain't coming, sign it, cover yourself. Always, um, rare occurrence, but it's worth knowing that.

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Yeah, I mean, the other thing we, we raise, which I know Gas Safe doesn't, is the waste carrier's license. If you're carrying waste, you need to have a waste carrier's licence, and I'm aware— I was up in Manchester not a few months ago, and the guys were telling me, yeah, there's a lay-by on the edge of Manchester where they regularly pull white vans in and plumbers' vans and have a look to see if there's any waste on their van and then say, where's your waste carrier's licence? And a hefty fine is then following if you haven't got one. Perhaps legislation that technicians aren't aware of. It is worth having it. Just to be clear, waste is any byproduct of your business. So a tiny little nozzle that you have changed, that's a byproduct. A bit of scrap copper that you've cut off and put in the back of your van, that is waste from your business, and you can get a fine from that. So again, we do, we do let technicians know about that. They're not terribly expensive to get an upper tier waste carriers license, which is what you need. And I say always stick it in the back of the van so if you are pulled over and they do all the, do the checks on the van and then looks for that license you've got it and you're on your way quickly.

Yeah, because when you said waste, I was assuming— I make the assumption that it was like waste oil or—

No, anything, anything at all, anything at all that can be, uh, that is the byproduct of your business.

Does that apply to gas as well then?

Yes, it does.

Basically to all tradespeople?

Yeah, it does to all tradespeople. And I know of one major gas company that does get their engineers to stick it in the back of the van because they're aware of it. So yes, it is every business. If you're carrying waste, you need that license.

I'm aware that a lot of it will actually kind of be in the documentation that you send out. But is this something that sort of aside from the heat calculations, is there anything else that kind of comes up sort of quite regularly?

Those— that's, that's the big one. That's the big one is heat loss calculations. Nothing else really springs to mind, to be honest. Yeah, and most businesses we find are pretty well there for it, you know. They read what we send them, they make sure that they've got all the liability insurance that is necessary. I think any well-run business will have the documentation that we're looking for, all of them.

I guess it's probably slightly more tricky if you have, say, a predominantly gas or your focus is elsewhere and you maybe do a little bit of oil.

Yeah. Yes, it can be tricky for businesses. Yes, I would accept that. I mean, we have got companies who are purely oil and just do oil all the time, and I think it's a great market to be in. You're out in the countryside, you're not stuck in a traffic jam on the way in like I was on the way in here. You know, it's more rural. It's the equipment. I do believe, and I think most people would accept, that oil boilers are more solidly constructed than some of the gas ones. The engineering in them tends to last a wee bit longer, and it's tried and tested technology, pressure jet burners. Once you've got your head around them, they're all pretty much the same. You know, you can see the same principles at work in the burner. And I think it's a great, great industry to be in. Yeah.

Okay. Well, thank you very much. Really appreciate you coming on the show, John, and for sharing your insights. Thank you.