Fred Moskowitz: A GUIDE TO GETTING STARTED WITH IN MORTGAGE NOTES | The Tyler Wagner Show #1113

Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Tyler Wagner Show. I am not Tyler Wagner, um, as you can probably tell. I am Colin Wagner, but I will, uh, be taking over some of the new podcasts we have coming up, so you'll be seeing me a lot more. Um, today we have Fred Moskowitz with us, and Fred's goal today is to help our listeners change their lives Fred is a sought-after speaker, advisor, and trainer. Fred combines his expertise in investing with his experience as an entrepreneur to help people attain a higher level of financial literacy, providing value to aspiring investors from all walks of life. His new book, The Little Green Book of Note Investing, encourages readers to diversify their investments and learn about one of the most powerful asset classes. Mortgage Notes. So Fred, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Colin. It's great to be here.

Yeah, no, we, uh, we're happy to have you on, and, um, I, uh, I think our listeners are, are in for a good podcast. So, um, where I like to start and where we like to kind of start every podcast is, um, like, we, we like to take it way back. So kind of like when you were a kid and everything, um, which is way back. So, you know, my first question to you is, when you were, when you were younger, did you ever like, um, was your goal to ever kind of do what you're doing now? Did you ever kind of see yourself doing the line of work you're doing?

No, no. I'll share with you a little bit about my, uh, my background, Colin. I started out in life having a very successful career working as a computer engineer. And I spent many years working at different tech companies, startup companies. And this was during the birth of the internet. So it was real exciting times. And I spent years traveling all throughout Latin America, deploying internet services. So it was, it was amazing. Now, what happened was that after I watched my entire industry get flipped upside down, because we went from the dot-com boom to the bursting of the dot-com bubble, and then it was followed by the September 11th terrorist attacks and all this turmoil in the world. And so, Colin, I realized that I was way too dependent on the income from my job. It was a job I loved, but it had all these circumstances that were completely out of my control. And what I learned was that no matter how talented of an engineer I was, or how valuable of an employee I was, if things were not going well at the company or in the economy, that I could lose my job through no fault of my own.

Yeah.

And so, uh, I came to the realization I needed other sources of income so I wouldn't be dependent on the paycheck for my job. And I turned to alternative investments because with alternative investments, it's all about buying and building assets. And once you own them, they generate cash flow and income for you. And that was very important to me. So I really focused on that for many years, and that's what got me started down this path of being involved in investments and cash flow. And over time, what was happening was that more— I was generating more and more income from my investments. Eventually, I got to the point where I was making enough from my investments to cover all my living expenses. And so from that point forward, I could still be working as an engineer, But it was a big mindset shift because now I was working because I wanted to and not because I had to. And it was a big game changer for me.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, um, so I have a bunch of questions, but the first one that kind of, uh, jumped into my mind is, as far as investments go, um, you know, I, I feel like I've made some good investments, I've made some bad investments. Do you have any stories of like investments that you made? And you don't have to get into like specifics of like, you know, the names or anything like that. But, you know, is there, is there like a story, maybe one or two that like of an investment that just like was like super went super wrong or like, like you could just like tell people maybe it's maybe it could point them in a different direction to maybe not making the same mistake.

Yeah, absolutely. What, what I've learned through being involved in investments for over 20 years is the best investments are the ones that you have— you're able to exercise some control over, you're actively involved in them. So for me, that was owning real estate, owning rental real estate, owning mortgage notes where I could be involved in managing them and, uh, utilize a lot of my expertise with that. Um, and so those are the ones that have performed really well for me, and that's what I speak about, that's what I teach about. It's about learn to find asset classes that you like, that resonate with you. Maybe you know something about them, maybe you have background knowledge or skills that directly applies. And so you can invest in that. And these types of investments, there's always a great deal of security with them, and you have control. So if something goes wrong, and we live in, in a world where things go wrong, problems happen, problems come up, but if you're good at dealing with them handling things, then good management is what really gives you success with an investment.

Yeah, absolutely. That, um, that makes a lot of sense. I can't believe I've never really, um, because personally, and I think a lot of people think this way when they, when they think about an investment, um, I feel like a majority of people, and it's just because they don't know, uh, an investment to them, they think it's just, you know, a I'll invest in this, I'll put my money into it, but there's no actual learning of what they're truly investing in and there's no background knowledge of it.

Very, very true. And let's face it, Colin, we can't know everything. Yeah, right. We can't know everything. And so what's important is if you don't know all the intricate details, Well, then align yourself with someone that does. Build a relationship with them. That's what's going to make a difference because you build a team around yourself. It's like any, any business. You, you do this in podcasting, right? You build a team of, of excellent individuals around you and you work together with them. Well, with investments, it's the same thing. There's a huge emphasis on building relationships and surrounding yourself with experts in, in their field. And so that's what's going to help you with, uh, with all this and help you with making the right decisions, the right choices, and managing your assets well.

No, absolutely. And, um, I know, like, with what you said, you kind of touched on it, um, being in control of the, of the investment, having knowledge on the investment. But something I want to ask is, because, um, so like building these relationships, um, when it comes down to it, you know, an investment, it can be a small investment, it can be an big investment. But at the end of the day, when it comes down to building these relationships, how you— how, like, what are things, I guess, that an individual could look for specifically in the person or the company or whatever it may be that they're investing in that would be, you know, just good for them to look at, I guess? Because, you know, just some experiences in my own life would be I've made good ones, I've made bad ones, and the bad ones were just because Um, you know, I thought I could trust the person. I thought it was a good investment, um, based off mainly the person I was working with. And then it turns out it just— it— the trust wasn't actually there on the other end.

Yeah, it's, it's tricky. So for sure, uh, you, you need to get good at doing your due diligence, um, on both the people that you're working with as individuals as well as the company. If They're working with a company. You, you need to perform due diligence and look into that. What's the track record? What's their background? What's their reputation in the industry? Uh, check references. I mean, you really gotta do all of these things. Someone that's been in business for years and years and years and decades that has a solid track record and they're well known. That's huge. That's huge. And they have references that you can check out and independently verify. That's going to go a long way. It's no guarantee, of course, but that's what's going to happen. Colin, I've seen people get involved in some kind of investment deal, joint venture, right, to talk about things that went wrong. I've seen this before. People came to me and they said, Fred, I joined into this deal with, with Joe So-and-so over there, and, uh, after 6 months things didn't go well and they stopped communicating with me and all that. And I said, look, if you would have Googled Joe So-and-so's name before investing and just spent 10 minutes doing some basic internet searches you would have seen all the dirty laundry right there. I mean, that's the reality. So a lot of times this is nothing sophisticated. It's like, at least do some bare minimum checking. But I always teach people that I— people that work with my clients and customers, like, really go deep, ask for references, check them out, make sure everything's legitimate. And Do you have a good, a good feel for what you're finding, your results? And ask other people that work in that industry. In my industry, in mortgage note investing, it's a small world. We all know each other. And so it's really easy to pick up the phone and make a couple of phone calls to different other investors I know, different vendors that we use in the industry. To really find out. Because hey, maybe I've never done business before with Sally over there, so I want to check into her a little bit. Is she an upstanding individual? Does she do what she promises that she's going to do? That's it. It's roll up your sleeves and do some basic detective work. But it's things that anyone can do. It doesn't require any special knowledge or skills, just time and effort. Yeah, but to protect your money, that's a worthwhile use of your time and effort.

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, um, absolutely. Uh, just to add one more, uh, last piece to, to this part is, um, I think a lot of people too are just looking for like a quick return, right? So it's just like they're, they're looking to invest and then get the money back right away, and it's just looking for um, uh, yeah, like a quick return on it. So, um, and obviously it's not that easy. Um, so, uh, you're not betting on a football game or anything like that, so, you know, it's a little different.

No, absolutely. And, and I like not quick return. I like— I use the long game. That's the approach. I invest for the long game. And, um, approach it from that perspective. Sometimes you can make money quickly, and that's all great, but I plan on being involved for, for the long term, right? And to me, that's like 5 to 7 years. So I go out that far in the future and consider it from that perspective. And sometimes you'll get into a deal with that type of time frame, but in 2 or 3 years, all the investment's done, it paid off and did well, and you got your money back sooner. Well, great. Okay. Now, my job is to turn around and find the next opportunity. Now, put that money back out to work because I always teach this. What you do, the objective is take your investment dollars, you want to send them out into the world so that they'll be making money for you. Each of your dollars, treat them like an employee of yours going out and working in the world. And then you want them to come back to you right at the end. And if you did a good job, they're going to come back to you with friends. That's the best part.

I like that. Yeah, that's good. That's a mental note. Now I'm keeping that in there. I like that. So before, before we get into the book, there's a couple more things I want to hit on here. So As far as like financial freedom goes, um, I know we touched on it, uh, that you were, you know, doing computer engineering before, um, you got into, you know, entrepreneurship and, uh, investing and, and educating others, um, you know, what you're doing now. Um, and I know you touched on you've been doing it for around 20 years now. What was that like? Uh, just to dive deeper into that, like, what was that journey like? Like, how long did it take you to get— um, again, I know you said 20 years, but how long did it really take for to get like where you're at now, where it's like, you're, you're, I guess, comfortable in a way.

Yeah. Well, there's really multiple levels and layers of that. That's very complex. I always say, so how long did it take me? Maybe like 8 years. Okay, right. And I say, okay, well, that means To me, that means that I'm making enough income from my investments to cover my basic bare-bones living expenses, right? That's it. That's right. But you— people want to go on beyond that, of course. Um, but there's no right or wrong answer, and it just depends. Are you a single person where you only have yourself to be responsible for, or do you have a family with young children? Well, Now maybe you're not going to be in a position to take so much risks and you want a little more buffers and cushions and protections there, and that's fine. But you, you just do what fits in your lifestyle. Uh, I chose to work full-time as an engineer while I was doing investing, uh, as well. And I did that for, for a long time and it was, uh, rewarding for me. Could I have left the engineering work a little sooner? Yeah, I could have, sure. But there's no right or wrong answer. Some people, they, they say they want to have an emergency fund with this many months of expenses saved up, and those numbers can vary. So it really comes down to your own comfort level and your risk tolerance. That's what it That's what it is. And so it's really a personalized question.

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. It was a big question. It was kind of a layered question.

So, yeah, no, it is.

Yeah. So, but before we get to like everything within the book, I want to start with kind of the process of the book. What was like the process for you and How did the process go of writing it, putting everything together, and getting the book out there?

Well, I started out with a very rough skeleton of the book, knowing that basically you come up with that table of contents and you say, okay, I want to have a chapter about this topic and that topic. So in For example, in my book, I wanted to have a chapter about what is mortgage note investing and how does it work and why do banks sell mortgage notes after they create them. And then some other chapters about how to perform due diligence, how to do evaluations. So you come up with a rough skeleton and you'll have placeholders for your chapters. And then you can take your time and do any chapter you want. It doesn't matter what order it's in. I worked on one chapter and built it up and then went and did another one. And over time, it slowly evolved, slowly evolved. And then maybe I saw, hey, this chapter is way too huge. I'm going to split this up into two, or different things like that. But it, it was a big effort for me, and I really enjoyed it. But what was most eye-opening was when I started working with an editor, when I handed off my manuscript to the editor, and the first pass-through by the editor. They did 3 in total, but the first pass-through is what is called developmental editing, where they're gonna look at the flow of the whole book and the chapter layouts. And should this chapter be moved from position 2 to position 10? Does that make more sense? So they would help you with all of that. If you're writing a fiction book, they do the same thing with characters as well. Like, are all the characters in an organized way and consistent throughout the whole book? So they, they, they're good at that. They're looking at the big picture and the organized flow and if anything needs to be adjusted there. So that was, I would say, that's what I wanted the most help with for my book, because it's highly technical, a lot of different involved concepts and techniques. And so I can go real deep on each one, but does it make sense the way it's presented and a natural flow for a person that is just learning about mortgage note investing for the first time reading my book? I don't want them to be lost and I want everything to be in a coherent and easy-to-follow fashion. And so that was a big part of it. It's that developmental editing phase.

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild how much having an editor can change the book. Like, it changes it almost entirely. Not to sound like a different person after the editor's done, but it just changes it and it's for the better.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, they're good at that. That's definitely not my expertise.

Yeah.

And so that's essential. I would say to anyone thinking about writing a book is spend some money to have good editors working with you. Hire good editors, um, that are trained, and this is what they do, and they're professional, and the end result is something you're going to be very happy with.

Absolutely, absolutely. And, um, I know you mentioned, uh, mortgage note investing, uh, a good, a good amount. Um, but before we— because I want to save that for, for the later half of this so we can dive pretty deep into it, Just one quick question about the book again. Is there anything you would change about the process that you would do differently if you wrote, let's say, another book?

Yeah, I would start from the beginning. In the beginning, I would start reaching out to people that that can write a foreword for the book, that can give quotes and endorsements for the book. I waited until the end to do all that, and that was a mistake. It's better to do it in the beginning while you're working on the book because it takes time. People are busy. They want to help you, but they may not get to it for a while. And so start from the beginning. Start from the beginning. And ask for that help, ask for support from the people that you know that are in your industry. Get someone solid to write a nice foreword for the book. That's really good. And do that right from day one. And the other thing is think about what your marketing strategy and marketing plan for for the book, what is that going to be? Think about that from the beginning before you even write the book because that's also something else that, you know, how can I say this? When you're done writing the book and the launch day comes, it's not over. That's just the beginning because now you have to market and promote your book. And so you want to have a solid plan lined up for that. So that's something else to begin working on right from the start.

Absolutely. I can, I can definitely agree with you on that one. That's, uh, I absolutely agree. Um, so to, to get more into, you know, what the book is about and what's inside the book, um, you know, just, uh, to start off with, you know, what exactly is, uh, mortgage note investing?

Well, mortgage note investing is, is really the idea about investing in real estate, but you're investing in the debt and you own the debt instead of owning the property. Someone else owns the property. And so think about it this way, a lot of people know about investing in real estate. It's a great business activity, right? You can own single-family houses, commercial property, vacation rentals, multifamily apartment buildings. But note investing is where instead we talk about investing in the paper, the notes and mortgages associated with those properties. So when I say investing in a note, that's actually the promissory note. And this is a really interesting part of the real estate business, Colin. What I find is a lot of real estate investors, they don't pay any attention to it. For most people, when they think of a note and a mortgage, they think about it from the perspective of being the borrower and not as being the lender. But what note investing does, it lets you step across the aisle and transition from being the one making the monthly payments to being the one receiving those monthly payments. And so this really helps solidify your cash flow and financial stability for having those income streams coming in. And yeah, so it's great for anyone that likes real estate, but they don't want all the headaches and responsibilities of managing a property, maintaining it, owning it. Dealing with tenants, all, all of those things. So for someone that likes the idea of rentals but doesn't want the headaches, they don't have the time to do it, note investing can be a great alternative.

And, um, so, so to me, uh, I mean, that sounds great, right? Um, it sounds like, um, you know, those— let's say we would call those maybe the rewards of this type of investment. What would you say maybe— is there any risk, or is some— obviously there's some risk in everything.

No, absolutely. Yeah, every, every investment has risks. Yeah, there, there are many risks, uh, too many for us to talk about here on this podcast, but it's all about managing them. Do you have a good team in place? Do you have good vendors to work with to help you? Um, And so when you do that, you can really scale and build a portfolio. And another alternative is to invest in a note fund where it's professionally managed for you. Fund managers handle all the day-to-day operation and risk management and, and administration and managing the portfolio. But really, with note investing, um, it's very possible to scale up into a large portfolio a lot better than you could scale up owning a portfolio of rental properties.

Okay.

Yeah, and, and having them, uh, having them managed for you. But yeah, absolutely, there's risks involved like anything else, and the more risk you're willing to take on results in more potential rewards, higher returns. And so, uh, each investor has to think about what's your risk tolerance, what's your timing, and see what's appropriate for you. Uh, there's notes that are low risk and others are high risk and everything in between. And so you, you get to explore that spectrum and see where, where you want to be.

Yeah, absolutely. And, um, I know you, uh, you touched on it, but like, as far as like managing your risk goes, is there any like tips or techniques, uh, for analyzing and evaluating, um, yeah, mortgage notes?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and this is something I cover extensively in, in my book. Uh, for evaluating a note, you're going to look at few things. Think about this, the same process a bank goes through when they're creating a mortgage. They're going to look at the borrower, their credit history, their income, and all of that, uh, and then also the property, getting an appraisal, looking the property value, considering the real estate market, because that property is going to be the collateral for the note. For that debt. That's what's securing it. That's what's giving you your downside protection. And, um, this is why banks always make sure that taxes are paid, insurance is kept up on the property. They do that by having an escrow account to pay those on your behalf as the borrower. This is how banks manage their risk. So We follow those same, same procedures and processes. Also very important is working with a servicing company, loan servicing companies. They help manage the loans and do a lot of the day-to-day admin on behalf of the lender. So think about it this way, the same way that a property manager might manage a rental property for you. The note servicing company manages the note on behalf of the lender, and they help with a lot of the compliance requirements and the day-to-day needs and activities that have to happen.

Okay, interesting. Okay, um, I hope I'm not too dark right now. My— the sun's going down, so, uh, I apologize to the audience I'm pretty dark right now.

No, you're fine.

Okay, awesome. Good to know. Um, I was getting worried. I could see the sun going down. Um, so how would, uh, how would someone pay for this? Like, how to, you know, how would you utilize your retirement account?

Well, there, yeah, there's definitely different strategies you can— so note investing is capital intensive. For sure. Uh, so you need to have capital to invest with. It could be money you have in, in an account, or, uh, money you're receiving from another investment that's paying off. Maybe you sold a rental property you owned for a number of years. You want to put that into a note. Also, one of the big, uh, strategies I love is that you can use your retirement account. Uh, maybe you have an old 401k from a prior employer or an IRA account, and that money can be used to buy notes and invest in notes. But what I love so much about that strategy when you do it that way is the tax treatment. It can be phenomenal, especially if you have a Roth a Roth IRA where growth in the account is completely tax-free, that's powerful. And so I teach about that, about strategies to— you can use your, your IRA, your 401(k) money to invest in notes. And so that's a great way to put that capital to work, especially if you've changed employers and you have a 401(k) from the old company you used to work at. You know, it's funny, Colin, uh, think about this. People change jobs all the time, right? When they leave, they pack up all their pictures and their belongings, take them with them, right? But what about your 401(k)? Did you leave that behind? I find that a lot of people they didn't know what to do with that money. It's theirs. But you, you have the option to leave it at the old employer in their 401(k), and they'll administer it for you. You don't have to do that. You can decide, hey, I want to move the money over to a new IRA custodian. And then now you get to decide what— how to deploy that money, how to put it to work for you.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That, um, that was something I had put in my notes here, um, and I, I'd seen that somewhere about utilizing the, the retirement account, and I, I had no clue exactly what that meant or why you would utilize, uh, that specifically.

Yeah, I'll tell, I'll tell you a big advantage to that, Colin, is note investing is an activity that generates a lot of tax liability. If you're doing a good job, you're making high profits, you're going to get hit with a huge tax bill because with node investing, you get capital gains and interest income, and that's it. No deductions, no write-offs, no depreciation like there is in real estate. And so you can get hit with some massive tax bills. So if you do it in a tax-advantaged account like a retirement account, It's a great strategy because now you're being shielded from some or all of the taxes. If it's a Roth IRA, absolutely, it's all like it's complete tax-free growth, which is super powerful.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. That's pretty crazy, actually. That's very, very powerful.

People don't know. We don't learn this when you're working at a company and the IRA, the 401(k) administrators come in and give their presentation about the retirement plan. They don't teach you about any of these strategies. All they teach you about is, hey, we have 6 options for you to choose from. Pick the ones you want. Well, guess what? Those 6 options, it's 100% in the stock market. So all your money is completely in— at the whim of the stock market, uh, and with no diversification at all.

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Um, um, you know, something, uh, I think this is a good topic, uh, to get into, and it's kind of, um, a little, a little different from what we've been talking about, but Before we end the podcast at the end there, I'm going to— we'll come back to the mortgage notes and everything, but it's just something I think it's a good topic because most of our listeners are— maybe they're already entrepreneurs, they're inspiring entrepreneurs. As I had mentioned to you before we started the podcast, a lot of them are inspiring authors. But, you know, entrepreneurship, the way like, like, though, when I got out of high school, I immediately, immediately went into entrepreneurship, right? I, um, I joined my brother with, with this company, Authors Unite, um, and I, I kind of never looked back from it. Um, so I'm just curious, as far as like your journey and entrepreneurship goes, um, do you think the— especially with the way, uh, I guess you could say the world is today, do you think that entrepreneurship evolving? Is it easier now to be involved in entrepreneurship and to be an entrepreneur today than it was back when you started? Or was it maybe easier back then?

It's different. I would say it's different, not necessarily easier. It's a lot of work and it's not for everyone, for sure. But what we do have today that we didn't have when I was first getting started, we didn't have podcasts. We didn't have online education and courses. We didn't have YouTube. So we have all of these resources available to us at our fingertips to learn and explore and see what see what is appealing to, to you. Uh, when I first got started, all we had were books and, uh, attend events, go to meetings, meetups, investor events that I would go and network with people and meet people, talk to people, which is wonderful and super valuable. And I'm not, uh, saying you shouldn't do that, but Now we have all these other ways to learn. And so that's powerful. Take advantage of that. Listen to podcasts. Listen to online education videos. What I love, Colin, is because of the way there's digital education now, We're able to take courses online on anything you want, and you have the opportunity to learn from top masters in whatever field you want that in the past you would never have access to, to high-level people. But now you do, through— you could buy their online course and learn from top masters top experts. That's powerful.

Yeah, absolutely. I just— going off of that, um, as far as like someone just starting out in entrepreneurship, I guess I, I guess I have two— it'll, it'll be like two questions. Um, you know, how does someone, um, I guess determine if they— um, because as you mentioned, it's not for everyone. So how would someone, I guess, determine if entrepreneurship entrepreneurship is for them? And then the second question would be, and you kind of hinted on it, I think, but like, how would they— would you say the best way for them to start would be to do exactly what you said, to be listening to podcasts, watching, you know, YouTube videos, and kind of just starting to interact with things they may be interested in?

Yeah, this is a great question. What I always say is find someone that's already doing the thing you want to do. Find someone else that's successful in that type of business, in that field, and learn from them. Ask them for help, meet with them, talk to them, maybe work for them for some time. Like, I mean, working to learn and develop your skills. Yeah, don't worry about how much money you make or, or not, but work going into it for the learning opportunity. What are the skills that you'll get to develop and see what it's like firsthand? That, that's powerful. But always, like, network and find someone who's successful and ask them for help. Ask them, what was it like? What inspired you to start your business? What was it like in the beginning? What were some of the challenges you faced and overcome? Overcome?

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I agree with you 100%. Um, to, to touch on the book again, is there— so like, now that, um, you've written the book and the book is out, as the— has the book Would you say the book has, like, what has the book brought to, let's say, your business? Has it, you know, what has the book done for you kind of specifically as far as like towards your business and stuff like that?

Yeah, great question. Towards the business, it brings brand authority, brand credibility for both your personal brand as well as your business brand. And it helps get exposure, get clients find you, customers find you through your book. It opens up relationships of all kinds and it really allows you to connect with people at a deeper level. How much more impactful is it, Colin, if someone met you and they gave you a business card, or if they would say, hey, I just published a book, I'd love to give you a copy and sign it and give it to you and leave that with you. What's the difference there? You see, you see how it is? You can now take that book home and read it and learn about them, about their business, learn a lot more, and, uh, it, it could open the door to business getting done. Because by the time you contact them to talk about doing business together, you know them really well, right? You know a lot about them at a deeper level, and that's really powerful. It's impactful.

Yeah, absolutely. We at Authors Unite, I mean, we— a book makes you a master of your craft, and I truly believe that you are a master of your craft, honestly, even without the book. And that's because you have 20 years of experience behind you. And just from what I've, I've learned, learned from talking to you now, and just from what I've read and stuff like that, you know, you have a lot of experience and to be able to put a book together, you need that experience, you need those expertise. So handing a book to someone is definitely much more powerful than a business card. So I'm right there with you. What I would like to— how I kind of like to finish up the podcast is I like to kind of leave the floor to you. And, you know, if there's anything that we didn't really touch on as far as what's inside the book, any like last final notes about investments and everything and the mortgage notes, I'd love for you to hit on that. And then also just like anywhere our listeners, where's like the best place for them to find you and get connected with you?

Oh, great. Thank you. Yeah, let's— you covered multiple topics there, so I'll try to hit them one by one.

I can reinitiate them.

So about mortgage note investing. Um, what I'll say is I love it because it allows you to make an investment. Your capital is protected because it's secured by something with tangible value, which is the real estate. And while you own it, you're earning cash flow and income. That's a really powerful, uh, arrangement. And banks have been doing this for going back to biblical times. This business has been around. It's nothing new, um, but it's a really powerful business. And to get involved, for someone thinking, how do I get involved in this? How do I do it? Well, there's two ways. Just know that you can, as I described earlier, go out and build a portfolio, buy notes, build the relationships, build that portfolio and manage and maintain it. Or You can invest in a note fund where maybe you don't have a lot of time because you're focused on another business you have or whatever, whatever it is that you do, you don't have a lot of time. Well, you can leverage now the expertise and the experience and relationships of the fund managers. They're the ones that go out and build that portfolio. And now you're receiving passive returns, passive income for your investment, which is a great alternative for many people. They prefer that. And with regard to the books, writing a book, if you're thinking about doing it, which a lot of listeners are interested in writing a book. Make sure you align yourself with a good team of professionals, as I mentioned before— editors, art designers to do the COVID to do the interior layout. This is all very involved and you want it— you want your book to look good. You've all seen a poorly produced self-published book. It looks terrible. Yeah, you notice it right away when you see a book that was done well. It looks, it looks great. It looks great. The, the visual and the aesthetics, it's super important. And so focus on that, keep that a priority. Just align yourself with a good team of professionals that can provide you the guidance to deliver a nice product. And, uh, I— in summary about getting, getting in touch with me, I always love connecting with people, love talking about investments, I love building relationships. So if you want to connect with me, you can do that by visiting my website, which is fredmoskowitz.com. However, if you prefer a little easier of a spelling you can go to giftfromfred.com. Again, that's giftfromfred.com and connect with me there. Once you're there, if you'd like to receive a free special report about note investing, happy to send that out to you. Just go on the website and you can sign up to receive that. And I always look forward to connecting with investors. Building relationships, that's what we do.

Awesome. And, um, where can, uh, people purchase the book?

Oh yes, the book is called The Little Green Book of Node Investing, and it's available right on Amazon.

Awesome, awesome. Well, um, Fred, it's been a pleasure chatting with you. Uh, it's been a great episode. Um, I'm sure many, many people will gain a lot of knowledge from this episode. And I think they'll want to learn more, as do I. So as you guys heard, you can purchase the book on Amazon. And I definitely recommend checking out Fred's website. So yeah, it's been a pleasure. And I will see you guys next time.

Thank you.

Thank you, Fred.