I’m Not a Narcissist

Hey, this is Tim Pratt Jr. and I want to welcome you to the Student of Life Podcast. Listen, we're going to get into so many transferable truths throughout the content of these episodes that I believe God is going to use to help you apply because he's going to reveal what's already been there the entire time. Enjoy. What's up, what's up everybody? So listen, this is the Student of Life Podcast. We're in episode 5 of season 4. We're kicking it off now, kind of transitioning to those interview format that I promised you, and I have a real good friend on here today. Willie Edwards III, he goes by Trey, and he's incredible when it comes to breaking down like narcissistic behavior and just studying different things that I believe that can help you in the workplace. And of course, as usual, you know, we always get into some scripture references with the faith. But as you all know, that's been rocking with me for a while, this podcast is to touch on a lot more things other than just faith, but to help you in just day-to-day life. And so with this episode, like I say, it's— this episode title today is called I'm Not a Narcissist.. And in the overview, we're going to tap into what does that look like, why does it matter. And for me, everybody knows that I'm real big on leadership and just personal and professional development and kind of hitting why those things don't mix. And as always, you all, you all know I like to always kind of have like a foundational text, and you can go look it up for yourself, Romans 7:5. But basically, the Bible addresses this issue about narcissism and how it is a sinful nature of self. In other words, that when we exhibit these behaviors and we do these things, we are totally going against God. So we do have scriptural reference, not just from an educational and logical point of view, that Trey will talk to in this episode. And so I wanted to basically, like I say, turn it over to him because he's here. So he took some time out of his busy schedule to kind of help us walk through this, and we'll kind of jump into like two different segments and then end the episode with some key takeaways. So as I get ready to turn it over to Trey kind of breaking down what is a narcissist, a narcissist, I want to kind of read something that I had wrote in my notes. So it says narcissism is a term used in psychology to describe a preoccupation with self. It is a Greek term taken from the name of a mythological character who fell in love with his own image and was doomed to die because he would not turn away from it. A narcissist is a person who displays a high level of selfishness vanity, and pride. They see everything from a "how does this affect me" perspective. So with that being said, I'm gonna turn it over to Trey and let him kind of unpack this first question: what is a narcissist?

Well, first off, I just want to say thank you for inviting me. It's a deep pleasure, uh, to be here, and, uh, I want to say thank you to your audience for listening, and I really appreciate it, and I just have a lot of gratitude. And, uh, so yeah, thank you. But to answer your question, what is a narcissist? First, kind of want to— I know this more or less like the textbook definition of narcissism, but in my opinion, that's a very pretty, prettied up or sugarcoated, maybe as our fathers would say.

Right, right.

Sugar-coated version of the definition of narcissism. So with that, one of the sentences in there, he said that he was doomed to die because he wouldn't turn away from his, his own image. But a narcissist, they oftentimes have childhood traumas that they encounter, maybe from abusive parents or a toxic environment, but, you know, instead of finding constructive ways to rise above it or to deal with it, they often become the very toxicity that influenced them, and they kind of get caught in this cycle. But in truth, they really hate their true genuine image, and they refuse to acknowledge it. But narcissists actually create this false image that helps comfort the reality of what they don't like about themselves. So a narcissist will create this grandiose sense of themselves and they live in that, you know. But I want to kind of segue to the word confidence temporarily here. Confidence is something that you can you can validate it within yourself. So I say, if I were to ask, hey Tim, are you an excellent podcast host? You could confidently say yes without, you know, my input or anyone else's input. You've been doing podcasts for a while. Yes sir. So, you know, you can validate that yourself. You don't need someone else to validate it. So it's, uh, your confidence naturally comes from that, you know. So with the narcissist having a false sense of themselves, the grandiose sense of self, it's not real. So it cannot be validated internally. It's impossible to self-validate something that's not real. So in turn, they need other people to validate it for them. So you'll often see people that I call proxies, but you know, but today we're talking about narcissists, but proxies kind of, you know, support the narcissist this and their abuse. And as long as they become a satellite of the narcissist, uh, grandiose sense of self, they kind of comfort and confirm the grandiose sense of self, uh, you know, through, through those proxies. The narcissist will feel, you know, validated, you know. So as long as you are the one, as long as you keep validating that false self, you know, they'll, they'll shower you with gifts or whatever, um, but that those gifts come at a cost, you know, your identity. You cannot dare have an identity, your dignity will be shattered, um, because your purpose to them is to validate their false sense of self. And it's giving them— yes sir, well, it's giving them—

if you don't mind, I want to jump in because I mean, you're actually dropping straight bars today, man. And I want to kind of back up just a little bit because I know you and I, you know, we've talked online about this a lot, and I've told you, you've helped me just in my professional career development, uh, a lot with dealing with this. You know, I had my kind of my own ways of just kind of playing with these people and toying with them, but, uh, one thing that you really helped me do is kind of identify and understand that it is tools and concepts to deal with this. And maybe we can get into that like later on in segment 3 with kind of some of the takeaways that people might struggle with in day-to-day life, you know, to listen to this. But I kind of want to back up to one thing what you said about uh, like it was kind of pretty definition, and you kind of want to go beyond that and really get to the essence of what it truly is. And I really appreciate that, uh, because that's the world we live in, you know. Sometimes we have to, uh, biblically— sometimes when people are speaking biblically, they're preaching sermons, some, you know, they like to quote the Greek word or, you know, really break down where it came from, the original translation. So I truly appreciate that. But, uh, one thing— two things that you noted Um, the first one was you said like they— I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but they're afraid of self. Uh, or maybe not afraid, but they won't turn to self. And so with that understanding, and kind of when you say they use proxies, although you know we're talking about narcissists, do you feel like a lot of narcissistic behavior, like people that exhibit that behavior, or that are just true narcissists, uh, that they operate in a lot of what I like to call false humility? Do you think that's fair?

Yes, um, because there are different, uh, narcissism is kind of on a spectrum, and, uh, within that spectrum might be another spectrum of intelligence. You know, they're, they're intelligent narcissists, they're not so intelligent narcissists, but more intelligent narcissists definitely tend to exhibit let's say false humilities because they know they can't be too overt or the environment will actually attack them for being too toxic. So, you know, if I can— the image is everything to the narcissist. With the narcissist, it's not at all about being genuine, you know. So as long as that image is okay, you know, then they don't really care. So that false humility definitely plays a part into, into supporting that false image, you know. Um, as long as the image is not penetrated, they're fine.

Got you, got you. Okay, cool. No, then, like I said, I just want to unpack that there because, um, I know with me, you know, like when you get into like certain terms, like I said, if you had time— I know you're not— we're like, well, we've had probably about 10, 15 conversations, you know, last an hour and a half or two, so I know we're not gonna fit all of that in like a 40-minute time frame. But, uh, I know that a lot of people, uh, like I said, including myself, man, uh, when you, when you drop the term proxies and stuff that they use— but because I've seen so many people operate in a false humility, you know, when I was working, just working, you know, being in ministry, just day-to-day life. And I wish something would have triggered, you know, I would have had the tools to say, okay, wait a minute, and just saying like, hey, this person is false or whatever. I wish I would have just had those tools to say, no, this might be deeper. Like, this person might be, you know, actually a narcissist for real, you know. And I don't know, like, if you, you get into like malnarcissism or, you know, uh, up, up to severe, you know, like, I don't know if it's a way to categorize things. I know you and I kind of talked about residue before, but, uh, and not trying to jump ahead, but is it a way— since like kind of the first question is what is a narcissist— is it a way to like look at a person and say, okay, they have some tendencies or some behaviors of it, but I wouldn't call them an extreme narcissist? Or from your point of view, is it just a person is— they're a narcissist or they're not? Does that make sense?

That makes perfect sense. Um, I, I definitely you know, feel like we're all on a spectrum. So we're all going to have narcissistic tendencies somewhere in our lives. But I like to put it like this. So we all have a shadow self. So, and, and due to the nature of the podcast, I believe it's okay to mention Christianity, right?

Yes.

Okay. So, you know, ever since Adam and Eve have eaten off the tree, and we now have the knowledge of good and evil, we have a shadow self, and you can't ignore that shadow. And it's something that has to be acknowledged and it has to be expressed. But it's the way that, that you express it. For example, the shadow self can be used to defend. If, if someone were to break into your home, attack your son or your family, God forbid, I'm 100% confident that you'd be right there confronting them. And if you didn't have a shadow self, it wouldn't be possible, right?

Right. Fair, fair enough.

Yes, sir. So we definitely need the shadow self. And, you know, I don't want to necessarily condemn the actions— well, I take that back, not the actions, but the, the techniques per se of the narcissist, because sometimes we will need to use those to defend ourselves from narcissists. Now, when I use this term narcissist and I say defend against it, now, some narcissists are toxic, but they may not be dangerous if they aren't interfering with you, for example. But narcissists, so you might not have to, you know, be as strategic with them as long as they're not bothering you. But the false, the grandiose sense of self in the narcissist is so fragile that just you existing is— might be enough for them to start targeting you with malignant, toxic behavior. And from that point, it's where we use our shadow self to defend our territory, like, hey, you're infringing on my boundaries, and, uh, you— your goal should be your survival. And you may not always need to destroy the narcissist to survive, but if the— your survival is conditioned with that narcissist's destruction, then let them be gloriously destroyed. Because ultimately, your survival is far more important than whatever petty whims they have to try to get angry with or take you down because you had the confidence to create a podcast. And oh, now I'm jealous of you, so I have to, uh, be a malignant narcissist to come after you, you know. So, um, we will have to use our strategic narcissist narcissistic tendencies to protect our future interests, to protect our families from financial harm and stuff like that. So yes, sir, to answer your question, I don't— I feel like life is dynamic. And you know, while we do have these categories, they're good for helping us recognize patterns, like narcissistic patterns, patterns of a proxy, patterns of a genuine person, patterns of a borderline, and etc., etc., etc. But knowing patterns. People aren't, you know, we can't really categorize them, or I can't really categorize them. I hope I said that correctly. Yeah, yeah, we can't, we can't really categorize them permanently, but people tend to have 2 to 3 categories that they shift between. They shift dynamically between a few categories, and people don't like to be judged, and it might be kind of the reason why they do that. But the reality is there's a very finite amount of different categories that they can switch to.

Yeah, so yeah, man, so speaking of that, uh, so I was reading a book, uh, and before we kind of, you know, transition, but I was reading a book and I just kind of want to see what you think about these. So the book is, uh, Help I Work With People by Chad Veach. Uh, he's a pastor, but he wanted to write a leadership book that was kind of in a space where he didn't want to speak a lot about so much in faith, but he wanted to write a leadership book, you know, dealing with the secular market and stuff like that. So he has a podcast as well, uh, I think it's called Leadership Lean In. But one of the chapters that really jumped out to me in the book, I believe that the title of it was Narcissist Never Wins. And, uh, and he pointed out— and I'm not going to like unpack all of these, but kind of like you say, those tendencies and things like that. But he just kind of gave 7 things, but he was talking about it from 2 different perspectives or angles, if whatever terminology you want to use. And he was saying, you know, you can look at this in another person, or you can look at this, uh, as self. And this is kind of, like I say, also help us transition to segment 2, you know, what to do if we have narcissistic behavior. Uh, but before we jump into that, just kind of see what you think about these. Uh, he gave 7 points, and he said the first one is excessive need for admiration, a lack of empathy, exaggerated sense of self-importance, feelings of entitlement, taking advantage of others, if you have consistent broken or limited relationships, or you have a strong overreaction to criticism. So what do you kind of— do you think those are from just from your studies and really dedicating yourself to truly understanding this word at its essence? And being able to talk about it. Uh, do you feel like those are like, you know, of course not like, you know, I wouldn't say just start looking at people, say, oh, you know, they overact as criticism, you know, so they must be a narcissist. They might just be having a bad day, you know. But do you feel like, uh, those areas are fair to basically say that like these might be— I like to use the term indicators. Like, do you feel like those are, uh, indicators that say, okay, I might need to kind of pay attention because this person is operating in a lot of these different areas. And so it could be very well that they are a narcissist.

Yes, uh, most definitely, yes. And, um, and to your point earlier, you're like, maybe that person just might be having a bad day. Uh, there are people who have been abused by narcissists, and, you know, uh, maybe blame shifted a lot. Maybe they've been a scapegoat a lot of times. So maybe they haven't healed. And if you, let's say, accuse them or challenge them on something, they might see it as a narcissistic attack and overreact, you know. You know, of course, that person isn't necessarily a narcissist, but unfortunately in our world, they would get even furthermore attacked because they're literally crying out for help. They don't even know how to ask for help. And they're getting attacked even more because the environment is seeing them as violent. But, um, with the narcissist, I, I strongly think that all those, um, items you called out are really, really solid. And, um, um, forgive me, you might have to edit this part out, but—

oh no, let's go, man. No, and, and, you know, but no, and just to kind of like, you know, let you gain back that train of thought. The reason why those, uh, I believe that those are, like I say, because in the book he's writing it from, you know, a twofold thing. He said you can look at these as somebody else, but you can also look at these itself. And, you know, kind of with segment 2 focusing on what to do if we have narcissistic behavior, because I like what you said, you, you didn't jump on and say no, like you talked about the spectrum. And, you know, and so all of us are kind of on that spectrum because like even me, like, you know, you can Uh, and I won't go into like great details, but you and I have had to walk through certain things because of residue and what we thought and stuff. But one thing I will say, uh, that just in conversations with you and what you've helped me in is that what I'm learning to do, uh, I think the worst thing you can do— and correct me if I'm wrong— but if, if I'm going to ask a question what to do if we have narcissistic behavior, I think the worst thing we can do is if we do see ourselves in kind of these 7 points, if not more, out there. Because I'm sure like if you're just spend time researching, we probably could find hundreds and hundreds of them. But just kind of using these 7 as a framework, I think what I've learned to do just through talking to you is that if I feel that I am exhibiting that behavior, the worst thing I can do is turn a deaf ear to it. And what I mean to that is like, I think I need to identify that emotion, but I have to quickly assess and say, okay, I'm feeling this emotion and it might be, you know, uh, teetering on narcissistic behavior, but I don't have to be in agreement with that emotion, and I don't have to, you know, proceed with that emotion. So if, for example, if someone is, uh, talking about themselves, if we use empathy, and, you know, I'm showing a lack of empathy to this person, well, I personally believe— and like I said, I could be wrong— but I personally believe that a narcissist, like either if they see that they need to exhibit empathy, but they care about self so much, uh, they're not even going to acknowledge it, you know. But whereas me, I might be lacking empathy in that moment, but I identified something triggers in my mind, you know. And I'm a person of faith, so I believe the Holy Spirit triggers me and says, Tim, you need to demonstrate empathy here. Now, I'm not saying that it's all real time. Sometimes for me, it just feels like a divine transfer because I do believe in the triune God and the Holy Spirit working through us. And so I don't personally believe a person can be spirit-filled and led by the Spirit and be a narcissist. Uh, that's just my— that's my opinion. And so, uh, and so all of that being said, man, I, I think that these narcissistic traits— I don't, I don't— I think we have to really acknowledge and take time to say that these narcissistic traits can be dangerous because at their worst, they will lead a person to destroy others and just satisfy the lust of their flesh. And we know God doesn't want us satisfying the lust of our flesh. But narcissistic behavior, if you're going to identify and this is who you are, or you have these traits and you don't deal with them, or you feel like you have these traits and you still are like in self-denial or self-deception, I think it's very warranted that you are on your way to destroying a lot of people, uh, in your life. Or if not, self-destruction, because I know you're kind of big on that. If you have the tools where a lot of times you can lead this person, but I know it can be a dangerous game And I hope I'm not jumping ahead, but I know just talks we've had, like, it can be a dangerous game if you're not equipped and don't have the tools to really help lead a person that's exhibiting these behaviors, or if that's who they are, into self-destruction.

Yes. Do you mind if I interject? Yeah. You said something, uh, that, that I really would like to, uh, say something on. And he was talking about how, like, maybe in a situation where you felt like you might need to express empathy and the Holy Spirit quickened you like, hey, show empathy here. Or, um, for example, uh, I don't, I don't always see that as, you know, a negative indication about you, you know, like, and, you know, everything isn't our fault. The world is toxic enough and we have to develop in ways, um, for, for, for our soul to survive. So, um, as you know, um, there are a lot of people who prey on people's empathic nature and, you know, pretend to be helpless and pretend to be, you know, uh, just seeking attention, you know. But it's like, in that situation, like, you can't really challenge them to, uh, you know, or, or they would try to turn the tables on you and try to blame shift that— what's wrong with you that you challenge someone who's going through this precious situation. But, you know, when we encounter so many of those people, that our real empathic nature that's on the inside of us might get a bit calloused, so that when we meet someone who really is in need, um, our initial subconscious response is to be just as calloused as we would with someone who's pretending. But then maybe the Holy Spirit quickens you and say, say, hey, you know, this person isn't pretending, they actually need some of your care. And then unlocked, you know, comes out some of that, that empathic nature that's really there. Because it's there, it's there.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, go ahead, I'm sorry, Trey, go ahead.

Oh, it's fine, you know, we, we both, you know, we talk all the time, you know, we do this all the time. But, um, I just wanted to finish that, uh, sentence with, um, it— that empathic nature is definitely in you, or you wouldn't even be having these podcasts That's living proof that you have a tremendous amount of empathy for people.

I know, man, I truly appreciate it, man. And I really appreciate you for, you know, uh, segmenting to going back and kind of like say unpacking it. Because with, with me, and you know, like I said, you and I both, you know, we, we've had very a lot of strong faith-based talks. And I believe, you know, that the Holy Spirit— and that's one thing about the Holy Spirit, what you're saying, and it's so many things in there you know, where the Holy Spirit comes in, he can prompt you, you know, discerning, you know. So that's another thing, you know, if you have the gift of discerning, you know, and like, uh, you can look throughout scripture, you know, where people would try to pray and Jesus would basically, you know, bypass it and get to the heart of the matter, uh, just like with the Pharisees, you know. The Pharisees, really, I, I feel like the Pharisees were some of the, the strongest narcissistic people in the Bible, you know, but they were dealing with the Living Word. So Jesus you know, he's Jesus, he's, he's God. So he knew how to just quickly bypass that. Where with us, you know, I do believe that we need tools, we need indicators, and we need to educate ourselves. Because honestly, I've always heard of the term narcissistic, you know, narcissist or narcissistic behavior and stuff like that. But truth be told, man, it wasn't until I talked to you where I was like, wow, like this thing, you can actually devote, you know, devote a lot of content to this behavior, man. Because it's like, if a person isn't in the faith and they have a gift of discernment, you know, uh, and just on and on and on, then I, I still think like, you know, people can— you can still have some good people. Now I understand I can go to the scripture and say there's none good but the Father and all of that, like I get that in this proper context. But I also think that a lot of people, like, they're just not plugged in deeply. Like, they might go to church or might not go, but they're a decent human being in a secular society. That's what I'm trying to say. And so if they don't have the Spirit of God, you know, in them, or they really believe in discerning and all of this, I don't feel like it's fair to that person, uh, if they can't, you know, if they're constantly getting abused, you know, uh, by a narcissist person or whatever, a narcissist. And so I just think that, like, kind of like what you and I talked about in the, uh, in the past, that I think that we do need to stop separating faith and the logical response to how having to deal with these type of people that's out here. Because I mean, people have lost jobs, you know. And I know you can speak to things too about that, but people have lost jobs, man, with their livelihood, you know. People have been framed for stuff, you know. Um, I mean, and on and on. I mean, people, like I said, have been abused to the point where it has driven them insane, you know, because they didn't know how to deal with these people. And it's like everything points back to you, like, no, it's you, it's you, it's you. But no, it was this person. Operating, they were a narcissist the whole time, but it's just the tools wasn't there to bring forth the necessary exposure, or if I may say, the tools weren't there to help safeguard and protect that person. Because it doesn't always have to lead to destruction or trying to destroy that narcissist. I think one of the things you told me that you have really taught me, educated me in, is just like, hey man, sometimes like, that's— don't deal with that person, just safeguard yourself and protect yourself. Protection, you know, uh, in the workplace and things like that. And so So, uh, I think that's an area for me that I just— in talking to you and then and being educated, and I know you kind of started a website and things like that, you know, you can point to those things if people want to contact you, you know, via social media or email or something like that, if you want to share that information on this episode. But I think those are areas just from a career and professional development standpoint, uh, I feel like they are very huge and we need to take the time, collectively speaking, to educate ourselves in that area, man, or we're just going to get our butt kicked and these people are going to keep, you know, running society for the most part. Because we live in such a self-centered society, everything is about self, self, self, self. And, you know, kind of the last point that— before I transition back to you— is that personally, I don't think it's nothing about— I don't think it's nothing wrong with caring about self to a certain degree, but it's just when it comes to the point where it's self-centeredness. Like, everything is everybody else's fault. Nothing, you know, it's just like, you can't apologize, you're never wrong, you know. You can't take criticism. You can give criticism, but you can't take it, you know. You never— it's always a problem. That's, to me, when I see a person like that, I'm like, I don't really need any more indicators. I'm like, you are a narcissist. Uh, yes, nothing less, nothing more. And I feel like that's the person, once that's identified, if you were just a person knowing what you know now, if you were a person walking in and you identified this, what are some just takeaways or some safeguards or just some things you say, hey, like if it was day one and you identified this person or people, just at a high level, kind of how would you walk through that? And like just some takeaways for the audience that they might say, okay, I need help in this area, I'm struggling, what can I do? Just from an initial perspective, if that makes— if that question makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. So if you're dealing with a narcissist, um, one, one of the first takeaways I would say is you need the ability to detect that you're even dealing with a narcissist. And so the first step I would say is to sharpen your perception. Uh, something that someone told me before some wise words, and that's, uh, there are many entities that ride these bodies we call humans. Nothing to do with race, nothing to do with gender, everything to do— yes, sir— with the, with the energy signature with, with inside of a person. So it's like, and one of those just happens to be a narcissist. But, um, I would definitely say the first takeaway is to sharpen your perception. If you sharpen your perception, you need to heal the perception because our perception has been abused over time through movies, through media, through so much, um, corrupt, uh, art, if you want to call it that. Um, it basically has taught us to be accepting of narcissistic abusive behavior. Um, you know, to teach us that all people are innocent and all people are the same. That's, that's a dangerous concept because narcissists they can hide in that. Yeah, they can hide in that. Like, if you believe all people are innocent, you know, now the narcissist can blame shift you. Like, what are you doing? We're just trying to protect ourselves. What's wrong with you? When the reality is, is you were trying to stop yourself from getting abused, and now you're being blame shifted, you know. So it's like, perception is the first key. So you really gotta heal that perception, and you can practice that just by seeing the difference in people. There is a difference. And you have to recognize that before you can even begin to have a defense on narcissism. But, you know, the second part is definitely identifying and being able to identify different entities. You know, maybe in a future podcast or something else, or if people want to contact me, you can just look me up at Trey Edwards and we can talk about other entities. I could give my phone number if that's okay.

Yeah, no, it's whatever you want to do.

Okay, so, um, I, I still have my website, but I, I don't have the domain anymore. It used to be mastermindanddevelopment.com, but right now it's, uh, developmentofamast.com. I have some information on there if you want to look at that, but My phone numbers.

I'm sorry, and I'll make sure to drop these just for our audience. I'll make sure to drop these in the episode description as well, these links.

Okay, perfect, perfect. And, uh, you can also contact me at 501-257-0036. You can just give me a quick text message and, you know, let me know you met me from this awesome podcast. And, uh, if you need my help, I'll be happy to help you. Um, But the second step is identifying the different entities. You can contact me for learning about different entities, but, you know, I just want to stay focused since the podcast is more or less about narcissists. But identifying the narcissist by their patterns— they have patterns that they follow. And once you're able to recognize those, now you're able to understand what kind of strategies you need to survive, because the goal of here is to survive and, um, strategize based on what the narcissist is doing to you. So, um, I don't know if we have enough time to talk about some of those strategies, but no—

yeah, sure, man, go for it, man. Uh, we can definitely hit out some of those at a high level. So yeah, let's—

let's— okay, okay. So, um, I'll actually tell you a story that I dealt with at work with a narcissist was actually a young lady, but she thought of herself as the most intelligent person and the most— like, the company needed her. And, you know, there was no one else in that office who was as good as her. And, you know, you better not dare make yourself look good in any way, you know, like So she was like, "I'm the queen bee of this office and you're gonna bow down," kind of thing. So when I first started to work there, and this was quite a while ago, but when I first started to work there, there was a young man that was training me and she hated that gentleman for even being the person that was training me instead of her. And at a later point of working there, I began to learn different things and eventually I was asked to train some new employees. So as those new employees were coming, I noticed her narcissistic, toxic behavior started to turn towards me. So, so as, as long as she's not bothering me, I'm okay. Because as much as I'd like to stick up for someone else, I can't accept responsibilities that aren't mine if I'm not directly invited, because I would be blame shifted. Or they'd be like, well, no one asked for your help, kind of thing. Or I'd be out of place. So it's like, unless those people ask me directly, I, I can't really do anything there. So the best thing to do is to survive. So, and, and as long as she's not coming against me, I'll mind my business. You know, we live in a world that's so toxic that even if you're trying to help someone in that situation, because the world's perception is so damaged they can't even see that you're trying to help. So, but, but when her attention— I'll give— here's a quick example here. So I was sitting down training a young man, and this lady, she got up and she went— the narcissist, she got up and she went to her break, you know. So I was sitting there training, she came back from her break, I saw her coming down the hall, I was about to move out of the way. So that she could walk by, because she sat nearby. And as she was walking up, I began to scoot my chair back. And she looked at me and she said, and she pointed very— it's an offensive way to point at someone, very strong and offensive point, like, like, you move back.

Yeah.

And, and man, everything in me just got really irritated. So Yeah, so what I did was I literally stopped moving my seat and I sat there for about 3 to 5 seconds contemplating my next step. What am I going to do? You know, so I've been dealing with these toxic people for a while. So it's like I'm contemplating, like, can I come up with a strategy on the fly? If you're not able to come up with a strategy on the fly, it's fine. What you do is you go back and you strategize in private. It helps to write down the situation that happened. Like, and type it out. Yes, sir. Write it down because it'll help you to reflect, and then it also help reveal options of how you can balance the energy. Because with her doing that, she's encroaching on your boundaries. She's just disrespecting your dignity and your sovereignty as a person. So you have to find strategic ways to rebalance the energy. And once you place that negative energy back into her, and she's the only one that needs to understand that communication. No one else in the environment has to know. And that's the whole goal, because you've shattered their self-image when you do that. And that's called a narcissistic injury. The goal here is to provide them so many narcissistic injuries that are under the radar of the environment that they— there's two ways to beat a narcissist. You cause them so many narcissistic injuries that they either leave you alone because they can see that they're gonna blow up, you know, like, and it's gonna cause themselves self-destruction. So they might leave you alone because they don't see a win in either case. Or I get really mad at them and try to, try to hurt them, and then the environment comes against me. Or I, I keep bothering them and I don't blow up, but I just keep bothering them and they just keep causing me narcissistic injuries. So that's also painful for them, and they don't want to do that because you're shattering their self-image every single time.

Wow. Wow.

Which is what they care deeply about.

Wow.

Um, yes, sir. But, um, in that story, when she, when she told me, hey, you, you move back, and I sat and I contemplated for a couple of seconds what I did, I stood up, I walked by And I pointed in the same offensive fashion as she did. And I pointed very strongly and I said, "No, you walk by." And very quietly, she walked by and she went to her seat. And I sat back down and I kept training the guy. So that was one instance. But you know, that was one of the first times she felt a narcissistic injury from me. So she wanted to make herself feel superior to me. But actually, she ended up feeling inferior to me. When that whole thing is just a facade. This concept of being inferior or superior is irrelevant, but in her mind, it's the biggest thing possible for her, her false grandiose self-image. And I shattered her image, so she's suffering in emotional pain while the environment is somewhat unaware. So another— look, more, more and more instances similar to this kept happening, and I kept causing her narcissistic injuries. So the key is to do it just under the radar of the environment. And you have to do it repetitively. And the way that you're going to win— she eventually left me alone because she saw she was going to win. And she, she just pretended like I didn't exist. Like she would literally turn her back to my office area because she didn't want to acknowledge that I exist. But that was fine with me because she literally left me alone. And that's all I wanted. I didn't care. I don't care if she acknowledges that I exist. She's not the type of person that I would need to validate me. The only people who should influence any type of level of validation in you should be your like-minded people who are not going to cross your boundaries intentionally. We're social creatures. I get it. We need validation. It's inescapable. But that should only come from like-minded people. That also goes back to the first thing I said with Uh, healing the perception. You need to be able to perceive correctly who are like-minded people, because narcissists pretend to be those people to lure you in, to trap you, to abuse you, to blame-shift you, to scapegoat you. So knowing how to truly find those people will lead to the intangibles that generate happiness. And even, uh, love interests can come out of that from finding genuine like-minded people. Um, true friendships develop out of that. I mean, it all starts right there with finding your like-minded, but Another instance, and I'll keep it real brief. She kept trying to irritate me. And sometimes narcissists try to put you in a situation where you can't respond. Like, right, you know, and it's okay, you may not respond in that moment. But we strategize to redistribute that negative energy. That's the beautiful thing about energy. Energy is not trapped within the confines of a conversation, I can distribute that negative energy back into a person. In a completely different context. And that energy came and originated from that original conversation that they, quote, felt like they trapped me in. Okay, so it's like, I'm going to redistribute that energy back to her. So I forgot exactly what she did to me that pissed me off. But I knew that I couldn't respond in the moment without it making— causing me some form of self-destruction. And so I was really pissed. So I strategized on how I was gonna get her back. So I ate lunch one day. And she went and ate her lunch, and I saw a prime time opportunity. So I had just finished eating my lunch, and I balled up my garbage. I had a nice little pile just waiting, and then I waited for her to come back. And as soon as she began to come back, I know she always flops down in her seat really hard, like somebody owes her something or something, like, like she just doesn't care. She flops into her seat real hard. So I waited She's walking down the hallway, and as soon as she begins to flop in her seat, I take my garbage, I match the velocity of her body, I slam it with the exact impact that she impacts into her seat, and I just— I literally threw that garbage away as she sat down. And the message that was communicated to her is, "I think you're garbage." Wow, so it's kind of like some metadata there.

Yeah, that's That's good, man. And like, I'm really glad you shared like that story, you know, kind of telling it from two different ways. Because, you know, as we kind of come into a close, uh, and by any means, like, I, I, I preach the kingdom, you know, but at the same time, I know that the world is not always black and white. But what you said about perception healing, you know, I was like looking at the kind of the political, uh, landslide. And I'm not a huge Trump supporter, and I'm not a Joe Biden supporter, um, I just preach the kingdom, man. But what I have seen is that I feel like so many perceptions have been damaged, uh, and aren't taking the time to, to heal, that I think we have seen more narcissistic behavior, not just from the Trump side but also the, the Democratic side, the, the, the Joe Biden supporters. And, you know, it's, uh, that's why, like what you said, that, you know, these tendencies and things— when I just look at the debate, you Like, for example, if I say, hey, uh, Trump actually did a lot of good things being a Black man, I'll probably get called so many things. But it's like, at the same time, uh, does Trump have a lot of character defects from my perspective? Yes, he does. But I should be able to distinguish, to be able to look at him through a health— a healthy lens, a healthy perception, and be able to see, okay, Yes, he does have some character flaws, or a lot, that I do not like, and I strongly wish he would clean up. But at the same time, he still has done some good to just the society as a whole. But I feel like when we get into this whole, you know, what you said, the term that you use, uh, the spectrum, and you look at just narcissistic behaviors and proxies and all this type of stuff, we see just this political side going so far right or so far left because no one is taking the time, from my perspective, to heal in these things and just to treat people like people. So I just think you start to have like a lot of narcissists on both sides raising up, and these are the people that's pushing this propaganda, you know, and distorted views and distorted lens, uh, in society, then because we're empowering them versus just confronting them head-on, from my perspective. And so what you talked about with that woman, I think that was like a very good story just to kind of come to a close, man, and share that with people to let them know and see it in a way. Because I feel like if people don't remember nothing else from what you said on this episode, they'll remember that story and, you know, know how to contact, contact you seriously and just be like, wow, like, this guy, like, he's showing me that I really can go out here and strategize, take the time to learn. And those two 2, 3 takeaways. Take the time to learn and be successful at either protecting myself, you know, safeguards or whatever, or just, hey, flat out destroying them, you know. Um, and so, uh, yes. And so, so, man, Trey, I really appreciate you for, uh, being on this episode, man. Uh, and I really feel like, you know, uh, I'ma of course take— it takes about, uh, 1 to 2 weeks. I just kind of look at the feedback and the analytics and stuff, uh, just kind of where we're growing. I really think this episode is going to do real good, especially for people, even if they're not a person of faith. I think it's just going to do real good in the professional development audience, uh, that's, you know, connected to this episode. But man, and I really would like to have you back on in the future, man. And I actually have another guy that kind of like studies these things, uh, he doesn't use the term proxies, but he talks a lot about these different energies, man. So I would like to get you all connected and maybe just the three of us kind of just have a conversation and just really try to unpack it even more with, with talking about that area that you want to expound on with the entities and things like that, uh, if that's cool with you, man. So, but nevertheless, dude, I really appreciate you for being on, man. Uh, I really think you brought a lot of substance and you blew that generic definition out of the water with, um, just, you know, of being a narcissist. So people, if you've enjoyed this episode, if you've enjoyed Trey Like I said, I'll definitely make sure to get the necessary links from him. And you know, the title of it, like I say, is episode 5 of season 4, is I'm Not a Narcissist. And I think you really have to do that, that self-evaluation, and, uh, just that, just being aware of self and really take some time to say like, and do I have these behaviors? And if I do, if I do have these behaviors, you know, what can I take away from this episode to start, you know, unpacking these things and moving and, you know, and making sure that I'm not becoming a full-fledged narcissist. Like I say, don't get afraid if you have the tendencies, uh, and stuff like that, you know, just confront them, you know, and continue to move forward. But go back to this episode, find those points that Trey hit on and stuff. Like I say, you know, I'll make sure to put the outline with it as well once I do the editing, but zone in on those areas and just say, you know, okay, I kind of have these areas, I'm on— I feel like I'm here on this spectrum, but also ensuring that you're not becoming or you're not a full-fledged narcissist. So all that being said, Trey, man, once again, thank you so much, man, uh, and I really appreciate you for being on, man. And as, as all, you know, we have a generic outro, but I really want to thank the audience for taking the time to listen to us today. And Trey, I just kind of turn it back over to you for last words, Yes, sir.

It's been a, a great pleasure, man. I really enjoyed being on, on, on the show, man. I'd love to come back in the future. Um, but just last words, closing thoughts, I would say, um, you know, if you're able to cause those little narcissistic injuries, you're able to restore, you know, some of that fighting spirit and that dignity within you. But just remember, two ways to win win with the narcissist is either they leave you alone or you cause them so many narcissistic injuries that they blow up, and you can actually use the environment to self-destroy them. Um, and the other way to win is just not engage with them at all, which is the preferred number one way. Yeah, but, uh, yes sir. But that's all I got for now, and I hope you guys, you know, stay safe out there. I know there's a lot of social abuse out there, and I feel for you. I really do. I just wish you all the best on your developmental journey and wish you success in life.

Cool, man. Well, awesome. Well, like I say, guys, just keep staying tuned, man. If you haven't already, we'll ask you to do it here today, the outro. Subscribe, share this with friends if this content has blessed you in any kind of way. And like you said, just stay safe, man. Heal, take time to heal, you know, get counseling, get coaching, and just continue to keep God first. Hey, what's up? I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to this Student Life podcast today. If this content has impacted you in any kind of way, please take some time to share it on your social media feeds. And also, if you want to connect with me or just learn more about me, go over to www.timothypratt.org. Once again, thanks.