Tough Conversations

Hey, this is Tim Pratt Jr. and I want to welcome you to the Student of Life podcast. Listen, we're going to get into so many transferable truths throughout the content of these episodes that I believe God is going to use to help you apply, because he's going to reveal what's already been there the entire time. Enjoy.

Hey yo, what up? So this is your host Tim Pratt Jr. and I, I just want to jump straight into this. What you all have not heard from me since, what, mid-December? I Uh, so I'm kicking it off. I have my every intent to kick it off at the 1st of January, but I needed to take some time away from this. But I am back, and we're still kind of following the season format. I do— I think I'm going to go away from the season format because I did say that, and I think I'm going to go more into like a once a month, maybe two times, with some bonus content here and there, uh, because I want to— I don't want to just rush to pump out content. And kind of the, the niche that I'm targeting is people that plug in, and I don't want to just be another voice out there to just putting out things just to be putting it out. Uh, and then we'll just kind of gather from there based on if people say, hey, I would like to hear from you a little bit more frequently. Of course, I want to strive to get more guests back on here, but I am going to close this one out with the last 2 episodes. So we've been very, very faith-based, so I'm gonna— these 2 will be faith-based as well, but they're going to be a little bit more on the secular principle side of things. Um, and I'm really going to kind of— so I, I did some leadership development things on, uh, for the, the ministries that I support around having tough conversations, especially in leadership. But this one, I want to kind of put a new spin on it because, man, we have lost our everlasting mind out here when it comes to this whole pick a side. And I shared a post about High Road Leadership by John C. Maxwell, highly recommended book. There's a lot of other ones out there too that I'm sure that will help, but I love that book. So timely. I feel like it's going to be timeless because again, we have lost our mind. Everything, for the most part— and I want to be careful with that word because not all— but it just seems like so many people are just all about picking a side, blindly supporting people. I can't have a conversation. I cannot say, hey, I agree with some things with Trump, I agree with some things with Kamala. I, I can't say that without just being demonized. Oh, you're whatever the term is, you're a sellout, you know, or, oh, you support— how you a Christian and you support a woman that's for all of this? I'm like, when did everything become so black and white? Why, why can't it be gray areas? What has happened to wisdom, for God's sake? So we are in the knowledge age, and I used to be very, very afraid of it, and a little bit I am still concerned, but wisdom unfortunately is not moving at the same rate as knowledge. Um, and that being said, uh, we have a wisdom crisis. We really do. Um, and like, in this era, uh, I mean, we're just— we, we vilify people, we demonize them, uh, we don't know how to have crucial, tough developmental conversations, none of that. Uh, so we don't know how to empathize with people anymore, we don't know how to, uh, humanize those that we disagree with, and we don't even talk with the right posture. Like, we don't. And so I just want to have this episode— I don't even know what to call it because it is, like I say, built off the back of the developmental stuff that I have about how to have tough conversations. Maybe we'll call it that because that's what's needed. How do we have tough, uplifting, uh, solution-focused conversations? Because again, it's nothing wrong with disagreeing, in my opinion, but does it have to go and turn into an argument? You know, does it have to lead into me demonizing you? Does it have to lead to me just avoiding you all together and we don't get anywhere? And so I just want to talk again, just kind of talk, uh, that I did promise to go a little bit deeper on certain things, and I will. So let's just, let's jump into it. I, I know that I didn't really kind of do all the stuff. So again, this is your host Tim Pratt Jr. I appreciate you all for rocking with me. I know I've been away for a while, uh, but like I say, these next two are going to conclude this season and then like take a little time off, and then hopefully, like I say, from there I'll have some people on, get into some interviews, and like we just kind of do guaranteed once a month, maybe twice, with some bonus content here and there where I can speak to some of the real-time things after, you know, prayer and of that nature. But this, this is the thing, um, everybody, every organization, every person, we are going to face challenges. We are going to have conflict. That, that, that is just inevitable, even to the point where we have conflict with ourselves. But this is the thing: how do we engage with that conflict? How, how do we lean into that conflict? Because that's where the true separation lies. That's, that's where it lies. Again, I'm gonna have conflict with my wife, I'm gonna have conflict with my kids, surely they have conflict with me. If I have conflict with myself, why in the world do I think that I'm not going to have conflict with other people? But again, how are we handling it? And so as a leader, I think we should model it. And, uh, one of these books that I read, I believe it was The Chief, uh, The Chief Inspiration Officer by Val, uh, and John C. Maxwell. Of course, typical John C. Maxwell. Uh, this was kind of shaped up this episode. I do have a book, two books that I'm looking into like reading coming up. I think it's How to Human and Grace in the Gray or something like that. Uh, I'm sorry, I don't have the titles in front of me, but they're on my list or whatever, just recommendations. And then Think Again by Adam Grant is something I read or listened to a while back ago. So, um, I've spent some time— and of course, High Road Leadership by Jesse Maxwell, so in the Bible, of course. Um, but, uh, so I'm, I'm— this is something that's near and dear to my heart. So again, this is not an exhaustive list. Um, I'm sure there are people that can go way more deeper in this area than me. I'm— that's, again, I'm not trying to— that's not necessarily with this podcast format is for. Sometimes I'm— it's just a student of life podcast, so it's consistently evolving. If I'm a student of life, then I'm going to evolve. Some things I'm going to solidify and some things I'm going to change my stance on. But oh man, you got to make a compelling argument, especially when it comes to biblical things, uh, and show me in the context of scripture. Um, so one of the things that I want to dive into here is the core principles, uh, because of the necessity of hard conversations. Like, again, challenging conversations, they are uncomfortable, but we all know they are essential for growth, they're essential for clarity, and it's essential for resolution. Avoiding it does not do anything but make things worse, in my opinion. So we have to have them. And so some of the core principles that I've adopted and kind of retweaked, especially after reading about Vowels book. Again, not an exhaustive list. Of course, a lot of John C. Maxwell. But one of the biggest things that we want to be proactive, we want to be very proactive when it comes to difficult conversations. Again, especially in this climate, I don't want to avoid. I, I want to be able to lean in. If I'm avoiding, it needs to be a legitimate reason that this person is just ignorant, this person is just Man, I don't know. But I don't want to avoid. I want to be able to prayerfully, you know, go take a seat in the balcony if I need some time. If you're not a person of faith, just be able to proactively engage, you know, and that, and that a lot of that proaction is just with me sitting with myself, sitting with consistently refining, consistently learning techniques, consistently examining myself. Again, this, this is all about being proactive versus reactive. So, uh, because when we avoid them, it only amplifies the issue. It grows and it grows. And so I want to be able to proactively address problems, proactively address conversations and things of that nature, to try to build trust, to try to build common ground and have accountability. Like, why can't we have a conversation without getting defensive? Okay, if defense is— if we both do get defensive Can we, um, take a step back, have a timeout, and come back? Or are we just at an impasse where we just say, hey, that's the way you see it and that's the way I see it, but I hope this doesn't have to kill the relationship? We, we can disagree and not be in a line— not be in agreement on this situation, but, you know, can we move forward in other areas? And again, for the people that sit up here and, you know, sometimes I have people that are very critical with scriptures and say, what if the person is morally incorrect or they're teaching another doctrine or this isn't it? Okay, if that's the case, man, why are you even trying to align anyway? If it, uh, if it convicts your core values? Again, I'm not here for that, man. I'm, I'm just like, we all know that there's just certain things. If somebody is teaching that Jesus is not God, man, it's— it— I'm at an impasse. So I'm just, I'm gonna just say that, you know, um just going forward. And I, I did hit that on another video, but hopefully, you know, because they— sound bites are crazy. Um, then another core principle is, uh, evaluate our emotional state. We, we have to evaluate our emotional state. Uh, I never strive to engage when I am triggered. And for one, I have to know my triggers, but I never try to engage when I'm triggered or I'm emotionally reactive. I strive to respond. Respond. I don't always get it right, but I strive to respond versus react. I don't— because a lot of times we don't ask ourselves, hey, am I really being compelled to deal with this manner in a calm and clear-minded state? Like, am I really calm and clear-minded, or am I triggered? You know, because if I'm triggered, I'm going to react. But I want to respond. I want to respond to address this. I want to respond to this this statement that you made. I want to hear your side of it, but then you hear my side of it. And again, that doesn't mean we're probably going to 100% agree, but I've just learned a little bit and gained some insight for how you're looking at it. You gain some insight from how I looked at it. So maybe we can present a holistic approach versus just this, no, you pick a side, I stay on my side, and that's it. And then we just overlook the stupidity, we overlook certain things that are just like— that is what's wrong with us as a society. Because I'm gonna keep saying it, unfortunately wisdom is not moving at the same rate as knowledge. And so, uh, we want to declare intent, and then we want to declare intent up front. I used to talk around things, ABC, all in right, left field, uh, Jesus Christ, especially in my marriage, uh, even at work. But I remember reading a book, or no, listen to a podcast by— I cannot think of his name, but I know the the book was like the, uh, he's from Stephen Covey, Franklin Stephen Covey thing, uh, Scott something, but it was like Management Masters. I, I can't, again, I, I'm, because I'm, I'm really speaking from the heart on this episode, but, uh, with very few, very few notes. But in that, uh, podcast or whatever it was, I remember him talking about intent up front, like just declare intent, stop with it. Because if you, if I declare intent up front and just kind of set the tone by clarifying my purpose at the start of things. Like, instead of going ABC, 1, 2, 3, and all of this type of stuff, man, just maybe the conversation will— the outcome of it will still land even if I'm off with my words a little bit. Like, because you know the intent, so why not just declare it up front? And that is something that I have modeled, and when I tell you, it cuts through so much stuff now. Um, it helps me with fluffy leaders. It helps me— oh, direct leaders love it, or just direct people, I should say. But people with— that's fluffy, even they kind of like it because it's like, I don't— I mean, you know, I just, just go, go from there. And so I'm real big on just trying to set that tone up front. But that also— that does not negate that I still shouldn't use a lot of intentionality. And with me, I pray a lot and just sit with myself, sit with my thoughts because I do still want to be intentional with my words, my body language, and most importantly, my tone. We've all heard the statement out there, it's not what you said, it's how you said it. And Proverbs gives context to this as well. But because our tone can help foster that openness, or, uh, I mean, it can help foster that openness and minimize defensiveness, or it's going to close down the openness and and maximize defensiveness, I should say. So that are just, those are just some things that I typically kind of work through for myself. And one of the last ones I'll just kind of add, and again, this is kind of, if you want to like go deeper in this, I would recommend Val book. I can't think of her last name right now, but it's the Chief Inspiration Officer, or her just her content in general. But solution focus. Again, if I see that we aren't just, you know, uh, killing each other's core values on certain things, man. Can we find a solution to move forward? I'm not saying my way is better. I'm not saying your way is better. But can we really truthfully be vulnerable and focus on a solution to just move things forward versus us always being at an impasse? Um, especially in leadership, like, can we? Can we? And, and even in today's society, I mean, again, it just kind of goes back— either you on this side or you're on that side. You hate that side if you stand with me. You're— even if it's blindly following me, loyal, and just overlooking or misinterpreting. Like, it's a pastor that I respect greatly. I have grown so much under his leadership, but he taught on a subject that I end up watching. I'm not going to say his name because there's a few of them, so you, you won't know who. But he ended up teaching on the subject, and I'm not even going to say what it was about because it's kind of, kind of might lead you to filter through. But I still love him. I still— I'm going to listen to his teaching. I don't think he's a false teacher or anything like that. But I learned something in listening to this message, um, that he was so off base from— I knew that he haven't talked to another side of it to help him shape that up. And yes, he went to the scripture, and the scripture was rightly divided, but I think it was rightly divided without historical history. And this is the danger sometimes, again, when we don't talk. And I'm not saying that it's different interpretations, but the application of it, what people notice in the text when it comes to oppression and things of that nature. And so again, I'm not going to stop listening to them. I'm just like, you're— I believe that you're well misinformed. Although you, you are great, I think you're one of the best, you know. I'm not— I don't want to share too many details, but that, that didn't bother me so much where I would throw him away, because again, he's blessed me so much and I very rarely have seen inaccuracies in his, uh, text. But at the same time, I have to be careful to make sure that I'm not slipping on the side of very pro-something because of the history and the humanity there and the hurt. So again, this is— I just wish we could kind of lean in and have conversations, and we maybe might see things more well-rounded versus just spewing stuff out there that might be totally off base. Um, and so as leaders, we have to hold that tension as well as we're trying to move things forward, because it's already hard enough where I kind of stand with things and somebody else might stand with things. But think about when you're trying to facilitate and drive collaboration amongst other people that deal with all of these type of, uh, dynamics and backgrounds and stuff like that. Like, it's challenging, but we have to lean in as leaders, and it takes a lot of wisdom. Um, so again, you know, and just to kind of double on that, I love some things that Jancy Maxwell pointed out, you know, prepare thoroughly, uh, just identify the key issues and desired outcomes, uh, reflect on your emotional triggers and ensure that you're in a calm state. So kind of very similar there. Uh, communicate clearly, open with your intent. I want to have an open conversation, uh, I want to have an open constructive conversation about the specific issue. Now I can chase rabbit holes, I'm not even gonna lie to you, but let's be specific. Like, let's stop blaming and going all around and again chasing rabbit holes and just all this type of stuff and it's like, okay, what were we talking about again? I— that can get— because man, it be so much in my head sometimes. So that's the area now I'm starting to kind of write things down before I engage with people. I'm trying to send agendas ahead of time because I know that I can get all over the place and it doesn't take anybody else to tell me that. Like, if I seen it on my review, I'm like, yep, they're right. I— and I'm working on addressing that. Use I statements. Use I statements to express concerns about assigning blame. So again, I feel, I observe, versus you, you doing this, you're like— the— all of these little techniques again can help listen actively and allow the other person to share their perspective without an interruption. Uh, reflect back what you hear to ensure mutual understanding. Uh, that's a big one, and that's another one that I'm trying to model versus just saying, yeah, yeah, I understand. No, I want to like actually reflect back to ensure— might not agree, but do I understand? Have I really spent some time coming on the side of the fence, uh, with that person? Um, collaborative on solutions. So again, focus on the problem solving, not blame. Agree on actionable steps and follow up as needed. So again, I'm gonna just say this again: if someone's not validating, like, just your core values on certain things, um, agreement doesn't always mean that, um, like, I have— I mean, I'm sorry, a lack of agreement. Yeah, thank you, Holy Spirit. A lack of agreement doesn't mean that I can't align with you. Again, if it's not validating, like, some core things— I might agree, disagree with my leader on something, I might disagree with another, uh, person just on the team, whatever team they might be on— but at the same time, like, I need to be seeking alignment. And that's, that's my posture, and that's what I try to strive in. And then once I start to seek that alignment, I don't have to keep letting everybody know how I agree. Um, I just think, again, now there are some people that I might talk to that's trusted, you know, trusted counselors or whatever, and that's a whole nother topic for another day that I, that I got on, because we do need to examine the motive sometimes of why we're going to people. And a lot of us just like, man, are we looking at this the right way, or are we crazy, or are we just totally off? So I get that in certain aspects, uh, but at the same time, you know, we have to make sure that we're not just looking to sow discord and destroying somebody's reputation. But you have to really make sure you have trusted people that can, they can help you in the area. But that's, again, I kind of dive deeper on that in the lesson, but I'm not gonna really do that here, um, because it's just essential. And like, for my biblical people, you know, if you want to, you can read Matthew 5:23-24 and Matthew 18:15-27, you know, when Jesus is basically talking about— it's two different passages of scriptures, um, but one of them is about us leaving. You know, we have a fault with someone, leave our gift at the altar and go get it right. Or, hey, if your brother or sister sins amongst you, you see, like, having that conversation with them first. Start with them. Again, what is the posture? What is the motive? Why am I going to someone else if I never go to that other person? And, and so I love, like, when I have conversations or conversations with other people and it's like there's a dialogue of, like, I know that they're working with another person, we're just bouncing things off, but that person trusts me enough to say, I know this person's not going to go spear this all over the company or all over the ministry. And I want to have that relationship, and, and I love when people do that to me, okay? Kind of in a way, after all this is said and done, did you go talk to the— to that person? Uh, how, how, how are you working through this? Because we really need to kind of examine our motives, uh, because again, um, there's one thing is that's for certain: there is always going to be relational conflict. Like, there is no model out there— and you know, I work in an area where frameworks and models and things— but there's not one I think will ever be created that will teach us how to avoid conflict and think that we're going to have success. So it's always a matter of when I see it, not that I'm going around looking for it, I'm happy about conflict, but will I face it? Will I engage? We have to have difficult, hard, tough, whatever conversations. We have to. I mean, because like I say, there's so much content on this and I just kind of want to approach it from a different perspective because, uh, maybe it is a perspective that's already been shared, but just my, my personal one. And again, like I said, I think the biggest thing is that we have so much conflict within ourselves. And that's— I would challenge all of us that we need to examine those areas, like examine before we think that we're not going to— or why we're having conflict with someone else. Like, for example, why can I not have a conversation if you just flat out don't like me? Why can't we have that conversation? If my leadership is so horrible, well, what are some things that you recommend? Like, let's engage because it might be some things that you're missing. I've been on that side of it. For not having a vantage point, a vantage point, um, you know, when someone finally like say, I don't have to share this with you, but I'm gonna lean in a little bit because these are some things that you don't understand. And then when I tell you, when I was like, oh my God, like I probably would have never disagreed as much if I would have knew that. So it's just all about conversations. It's all about having a, uh, just, just difficult or developmental hard conversations and, and going forward. So Um, I would just kind of end on this note. And like I said, you, as you can see that I'm, I'm very pro-val in this podcast with a lot of John C. Maxwell stuff. But I just say, man, just approach things with a balance, a balance of truth and compassion, grace, gentleness. Um, and do you need to be stern in this conversation, or do you need to kind of be more loving, graceful, tender? Like, just what is it? Is it, or is it a balance, a combination of the both? Uh, be direct but kind. Again, you— sometimes people are very, very stern and they're unkind, like, because ambiguity, like, it creates confusion. So let's, let's just tighten that up. Like, be direct and kind. Like, don't come in so stern. It's like people are like, oh, like, are you mad at me? Like, no, I'm not mad at you, but it's like, well, you're talking about like— so tone, like, these are things that we all need to examine and just sit again. Are we triggered or are we compelled? Uh, value everybody. Like Jesse Maxwell say, value the relationship. Treat the conversation as an opportunity to strengthen, not tear down, not damage. Just treat the conversation as an opportunity to strengthen the relationship. We don't want to tear and build at the same time, or we don't want to build and tear at the same time. Like, let's leave that reserved to God. So let's just go from there. Um, and then kind of like I say, in conclusion, man, hard conversations, again, as we said, like, truthfully, this is what helps shape culture. This is what helps build trust. It's what helps build accountability. Uh, it's what helps foster growth. Like, we have— it's a two-way street. And I will say this though, but in leadership, sometimes we do have to go above and beyond in the context of modeling for the other person, especially if they're underdeveloped, underdeveloped. And with preparation, you know, self-awareness, because self-awareness goes a long way. But with a lot of self-awareness, with a lot of intentionality I just believe in my heart leaders can navigate through tough conversations very effectively. Like, I really, really do. I really believe that in my whole heart. And, you know, I would just end on this note as a personal thing. Uh, leadership for me, it's not about courageously confronting, uh, what matters most. It's not, it's not, it's not. Let me help me. This is what I'm trying to say. A lot of people want to be right more than they want to reconcile. A lot of people want to be right more than they want to reconcile. So a lot of times it's not about courageously confronting what matters most for the sake of, of, uh, just for the sake of it. It's about doing it because what's the state— it's— I'm sorry, I said it's not about— it is. I'm sorry, leadership is about courageously confronting what matters most for the sake of people in the organization. I had to go kind of look that back up in my notes real quick, but, uh, it's, it's about courageously confronting what matters most for the sake of people in the organization. So what mean by that again? Some of us just want to be right. We don't want to reconcile. I need to know the motive. Like, am I confronting this for impure motives, or am I confronting this for some totally other reason? But am I courageously confronting this because this really matters, and it matters deeply? And not just for me sometimes, but to move the people and the organization or the ministry, business, whatever, as a whole, uh, into just better and greater things. Or am I just so self-driven? Am I just a narcissistic leader? Um, that's totally— if you against me, then I don't want to work with you. And I'm seeing that play out in some of the local stuff. I'm seeing it play out in the national stuff. Like, I'm seeing it play out in some of the state levels. Like, it's just, it's, it's so crazy. And it's just no time for that in the context of leadership. I mean, like, I'm literally seeing people how they— whatever is going on, they're not even getting paid in the local— in this local thing that's going on. Because— and you have people resigning versus taking a stand. Like, this is crazy. This, this is so crazy. And it's just, it just shows me even more when John C. Maxwell said we have a leadership problem. And I'm like, man, with all leadership books out there, with all the management books out there, podcasts, coaches, consultants, I'm like, clearly we're just hearing information and gaining knowledge but not wisdom. So I just feel compelled to share that on my heart. Like I said, we'll get into the last episode of this season, uh, and then we'll kind of start switching up the format and then get some voices on here that you can hear other minds. Some people might flat out disagree with me, just add more substance, uh, but I just— man, I just really want to share this on my heart and just like truthfully ask you to examine yourself and say, man, am I really having meaningful tough or developmental conversations with myself, with examining myself, with my spouse, with my kids, with my friends, with my associates, with my teammates, with my local church members or local community members or whatever. Like, am I really leaning in or am I just demonizing people? Am I just like, just, I can't have, can't see their side of it? Like, can I just really take that pause and say, hey, I'm going to do some self-reflection because I truthfully want to learn to engage with you. Even if I'm leading someone that's not like me, even if I'm connected with someone that's not like me, like, can I lean in and we have these hard conversations in order to move things forward, to go deeper and go beyond surface level stuff? Again, I don't expect people at my job to know me like my wife and kids or my parents. I'm not looking for that, but I do believe that they should know me somewhat in the work and my character and all these type of things just to be able to move more deeply. They should know who I am, not just what I do, but who I am, because I just believe we work better and we lead better together that way. So anyway, man, I love you all. Just keep digging in, man. I pray that this content blessed you. If it did, I'm asking you to share with somebody, and we're just going to continue to level up, level up, man, and have these conversations. And hopefully, as John C. Maxwell will say, you know, bring people together in a world that divides. Be blessed.

Hey, what's up? I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to the Student Life Podcast today. If this content has impacted you in any kind of way, please take some time to share it on your social media feeds. And also, if you want to connect with me or just learn more about me, go over to www.timothyprattjr.org. Once again, thanks.