Advice From an 8 Figure Female Entrepreneur: How to Feel Hot, Healthy & Motivated in Your 2.0 Season w/ Chalene Johnson

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Welcome back to the podcast. Today's episode is extra special because we have someone on the show who I have looked up to for years. I am so excited about this guest because today I am joined by Chalene Johnson. You might recognize her name from her many late-night fitness infomercials, but she is not just a health and fitness expert. She is an OG in the world of business and marketing and is an 8-figure earner. She's also a New York Times bestselling author and the host of 2 hit podcasts The Chalene Show and Build Your Tribe with over 90 million downloads. Chalene fell in love with the hustle in high school, learning to buy and sell cars to put herself through college. And after that, she juggled countless side gigs that, in her own words, left her broke and busted. It wasn't until she went all in with an idea for fitness instructors that Chalene hit her entrepreneurial stride, resulting in her first million-dollar year. She and her husband Brett founded Powder Blue Productions, a one-stop shop for fitness pros, instructor certifications, custom music mixes, apparel, and pre-designed choreography. Their impact was global. The Johnsons went on to partner with consumer fitness giant Beachbody, the creators of P90X, producing several number one fitness infomercials, selling tens of millions of her signature programs worldwide. In 2018, Chalene broke the mold of the highly formatted infomercial formula with a selfie-style, unscripted show on her iPhone. Her vision for an unproduced show topped charts for more than 2 years, earning countless accolades, including Best Infomercial of the Year and Best Infomercial Host.

Host.

Just a few years later, Chalene's compass pointed her in a different direction. With a number one show still on the air, she made the radical decision to exit consumer fitness and focus on passion projects. Chalene and Brett have been business and life partners for over 28 years. They share a passion for family and helping people balance business and what really matters with their products, communities, online courses, and memberships. Today they are living the dream, traveling the world, and managing their many investments and businesses remotely. Shaleen's been featured everywhere— NBC, ABC, Fox, Good Morning America, Inside Edition, the New York Post, Daily Mail, Forbes, the Kelly Ripa Show, Success Magazine, Entrepreneur Magazine, and hundreds of podcasts. And today she is here to join us on Makeshift Happen. In this conversation, I'm going to pick Shaleen's brain on her professional take on personal branding and how to build a really strong one. We're gonna talk about the advice that she gave her son Brock that helped him build a six-figure business before he even graduated college.

Yes, we're talking about Brock Johnson.

So You guys may have heard our episode with him earlier this year where he was giving us all of the insight on Instagram tips to grow in 2024. Yes, Shaleen is his mom. We're also going to talk about what happened once Shaleen found out that her husband's secret gambling addiction had landed them $500,000 in debt, putting their family and their businesses in danger. We'll dig into Shaleen's 2.0 season in life now that she is in her 50s, how she is optimizing her health, energy, and marriage after menopause. Relationship advice for couples who want to stick together long-term and come out stronger and more in love, why step count and lower body workouts are essential for women who want to age gracefully, stay lean, and live longer, and other expert tips and health hacks for staying hot, healthy, and happy in your 2.0 season. You guys are going to love this episode. Let's welcome Chalene Johnson to the show. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly. Entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shift happen.

Welcome to the show. I am so excited that you're here because I have to confess something. I have secretly been wanting to be your friend for years.

That's because we're the same age. That makes sense to me.

I know, I know. We're of the same age group, same generation, you know, just live so many of the same experiences. So I just feel like we would really get along. I love it. But I am a lifer, and I think I originally found you through Angie Lee, and then I did Marketing Impact Academy in, in 2019.

Wow.

When I was first kind of starting to launch my wellness education business and mindset coaching stuff. And I've followed along like through so many of your different eras, and I just always, I just always learned so much from you. Yeah, like when you went to the Amen Clinic and you got your brain scans and kind of started to sharing, sharing all the ADHD stuff, like I was enthralled and I was sending a bunch of it to mom, like, I think this is us.

Like, did you get a diagnosis? No.

Oh, I didn't.

You just— well, you diagnosed yourself probably, right?

Yeah. And I also kind of like living in this sort of like unknown where I don't have to like label myself with it because I, I— for me personally, I feel like if I add that label, um, I don't know, I think it might— I think I, my personality, I might lean into that as an excuse, whereas I've always just found ways to kind of like cope with certain ADHD type stuff. And I'm like, well, I'm going to keep going.

I can support that.

Um, and even like, like Sleepy with Soul CBD, like, love that. Now we take those gummies religiously. Like, I learned so much about sleep and supplements from you. Even like the Dr. Laguna stuff and all the plastic surgery deep dives. And then when your father-in-law Bob came to live with you guys, that was like a whole thing on Alzheimer's. And now recently, just like the perimenopause stuff and the step counts. And I've just been fascinated by all of your tips like around the hormones and weightlifting, and which I'm sure we'll get into more of that. But like, my point being is like, I just always learn so much from you, and I'm wondering if you have always been someone who loves to learn. Like, what were you like in school? I mean, I—

didn't you want to become a lawyer?

Like, what, what is your kind of like personality always been like?

Yeah, so I didn't do well in school, um, unless it was like, you know, subject I absolutely loved. But other than that, I didn't do well in school, um, didn't I didn't like school. School was— unless of course I loved the subject. But for the most part, I always felt embarrassed. Like when they would hand out the grades or hand out papers and everyone's like flipping theirs over to show their grades. I hated that because I always felt like I was smarter than everybody else. I know it sounds terrible, but I was like, why can't I get good grades? So that wasn't a fun experience. But being a learner, yes, I've always been someone. If it's interesting to me, then it almost is like an itch that I can't scratch deep enough. So that can sometimes be problematic where I'll go on into these like major, major tangents, and I, I shouldn't still be in this tangent. There's other things I need to be doing, but I can't pull myself out of it. So I think that's, you know, part of the ADHD, like understanding my own ADHD. It's helpful to know like, oh, that's why this explains my— the way my brain is. It's not about discipline, it's not about being stubborn. It's like, this is the way my brain works and I've got to work with it. Um, so I've always wanted to learn, but I would say more so I'm someone who, when I want to learn something specific about something specific, I just can't go deep enough sometimes. And I guess I've always been that way.

Yeah, I know. I've heard you talk about the Rachel and Dave Hollis thing that you're doing on your Patreon and how that's kind of been like a, a wormhole for you where you're like, oh my God, like, I kind of need to get out of this. I kind of need to get out of this now.

Yeah. And I think it's a cautionary tale for, um, or I just think it's important for me to say this for entrepreneurs, because I go wherever my brain takes me. I'm able to do that in my social media and not lose my following. But for most people, I would never recommend that. Like, we teach Instagram, we teach people how to build a business in social media, and that's really bad advice. Like, to go into a new area like every couple of months is probably the worst thing you can do as an entrepreneur. So I always say like, don't do that. I mean, I would be— my accounts would grow faster, our, our businesses would be better if I just stuck to one thing. Uh, I've just decided not to do that.

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I love that. I know I was going to ask you, because you and Brett have started and managed so many different businesses over the years, uh, but I, I kind of think like you're a great example of what it looks like to have a really strong personal brand and how when you have that strong personal brand, it does give you a little bit more of that optionality and flexibility to be able to pivot into some of these like new arenas. So you mentioned like, yeah, it's not advisable to be like switching your niche all the time necessarily, but I'm wondering if you can speak to the power of personal brand and what that's done for you.

Oh, I think that's such a good question, Sam. Um, and it helps to kind of give context to the statement I just made. Once people know your name, then you can broaden your aim, you know what I mean? But until then— it rhymes— until then you you kind of do need to stick with one thing. And I found that to be very difficult to do, but I did it. Like, I stuck with fitness until that became what people knew me for. And then once people really knew me for that, once I built a business and a personal brand, then I had, first of all, the financial means by which to, like, uh, branch off a little bit. And I also had the brand, like, my personal brand awareness. And so when you're thinking about like, I need people to know my name, it's not even just like what you do. They need to know things about you. It's the way that we describe people, you know? It's the, oh, you, for example, um, without naming names, uh, I was in the car ride with, um, my girlfriend Jess just now, and I always said, oh, do you know who so-and-so is? And he's a major influencer. And she's like, no. And so I just, I described what he did I also described what he looks like and I described like one of his most popular things he's known for. And it's probably not something he set out to brand himself as or with, but it's part of what becomes our personal brand is the way that people accidentally start describing us. Mm-hmm. Um, my, uh, my executive assistant, when, you know, she's giving, she knows I need to know like everything about you before I'm doing a, an inter— you're interviewing me, but I need to know about you. Beforehand, cuz like that just helps my brain. Oh God. And so just before I, I went live, she goes, oh, and you're, you're gonna love, she loves to swear. And I said, oh, yay. So like, I don't know if that's like something you do intentionally, but like that's, if that's something she's picking up on right away, then that means it's, it's part of your brand.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. So interesting. One of my favorite descriptions that I've ever heard of brand is it's the taste you leave in people's mouth.

Mm-hmm.

So it's not necessarily like sometimes we try to control. What we think our brand is. But at the end of the day, a lot of times it's those things that you— that people just naturally kind of like pick up on. It's that taste you leave in their mouth. So how you— however you described that influencer guy, is the impression that you kind of get from him. It's the lasting taste in your mouth when you consume his stuff, not necessarily what he writes on a, you know, mission statement for the company of like what they want their brand to be known as.

Yeah, yeah, that's true to some extent. The example that I just gave you, ironically, this is super ironic, is I told her the things that people would recognize about him, but this guy leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Oh, and I, I didn't tell her that until like, like we were going further along in the conversation. I was just saying like, this is someone who I think is a phony. This is someone who I think, um, uh, it's surprising to me that so many people like really put all of their faith in this person. But I didn't, when I described his brand, I just described kind of like what people generally know him for.

Hmm.

So I think it's, you know, like there, there's that, what do people generally know you for? And, and even today with as much as we've done teaching people how to build businesses and build social media and all of those things, I, I would say probably 90% of people will still describe my brand as, oh, she's, you know, she's the fitness lady. So I'll still hear that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's— for people that maybe aren't super familiar with you yet in my audience, let's kind of go back just a little bit because you are maybe the fitness lady. The OGs will remember you from Turbo Jam, PiYo days, and, you know, the other fitness DVDs and stuff. Um, I was actually looking up some of the videos before this interview and I They're like memes. Yeah, but like, you slayed that. Honestly, it was so cute watching those. You're like shouting at the camera. I'm like, I love this. Um, so yeah, like, was that— would you say that that was kind of like your entryway into entrepreneurship, or do you feel like it started way before then? Like, was it something that you kind of had by nature since—

oh no, yeah, that was, that was the business that helped me to become known, uh, but no, it was not at, uh, by any means my first business. My first business was a— I flipped cars. So I would buy used vehicles and have them cosmetically improved, like a paint job or interior cleaning, and then I would flip them. And then eventually I started my first business while I was at Michigan State. It was called the All Michigan Auto Swap Meet. And I guess it was CarMax before there was CarMax. So it was a business where people who were in the market to sell their used vehicle could— they all came to one location that I would advertise on Saturdays. And then people who were in the market to buy a vehicle from a private owner and not a dealership would all come to one location. And that was Y'all Michigan Auto Swap Meet. So that was really my first business. And there were probably 20 others, uh, in between. I was always like, oh, that's an idea, that's an idea, that's an idea, that's an idea. And so I would just start all these different businesses and they would always make money, but they— oh, I was always doing another business at the same time. Like, I couldn't just do one thing. And, um, it wasn't until I really decided to scrape everything off my plate, even the things that I was really passionate about and focus on just one thing until I became known. Like, I just kept hearing that advice over and over and over again. I'm like, I don't want to do that. That's for other people. That's for people who don't have as much, uh, passion as I do. That's for people who don't have as many ideas as me. I, I can do all these things, and all of these things bring me in a little bit of money. So if I were to just focus on one thing, wouldn't I be making a lot less money? That was my thinking. But you just hear that message over and over and over again. Finally, I'm maybe I should just try that. And it's legit, it does work.

You're like the definition of a multi-passionate person, right? So for— and I have a lot of friends and, you know, people like that around me, and I think it's a really big struggle for people of like, how do I just like focus on this one thing and stop getting distracted?

Or I—

if I do the same thing for too long, I get bored. You can probably relate to that. So any advice on like what what helped you in that journey of like just sticking to the one thing? Was it just the motivation enough to be like, okay, so many experts are saying this, like it must work, I'm just going to stick it out?

I was working too hard, you know, I was just like, that is fun as it is to be multi-passionate, it's also debilitating in some ways because you can never turn your brain off and you think, okay, I'm only spending 10 hours on this and only 15 hours on this and only 15 hours on this. And the next thing you know, it's 100 hours. So it was me going like, I want, I want peace for my brain, and I, I want to make more money in less time, and I want to make a difference, and I want to be known, and I want to be able to do all these other things at some point. But I, I can't if I am trying to do them all at once. So it was just the sheer determination to make something really, really work so that later I could go back to some of those things that I was in some cases more passionate about, in many cases more passionate about than I was fitness. Mm-hmm. I mean, cuz fitness wasn't like my degree or anything. It was just kind of an accidental thing.

And you were really good at it. You had like a natural talent for it in terms of like—

not naturally. No, not naturally, but thank you. I, that was developed like, so when I moved to California from, um, Michigan, so I went to Michigan State University and I taught fitness classes at the university, you know, and people just go to your cl— the classes because they're free, you know? And, and so there would be these huge classes. And so I thought it was like really good until I moved to Southern California and I'm like, oh my God, I'm really bad. And I couldn't get hired. I would, I'd go to the, like the 24th, it was at the time it was Family Fitness. I went to Family Fitness, they wouldn't hire me. I went to LA Fitness, they wouldn't hire me. And I was like, what? And then I started taking classes there. I'm like, oh my God, I'm really bad. And these people are really, really good, but I wanna be good. So I. I took an instructor training course to learn how to do the thing that I wanted to do. And so it was in no way, shape, or form was it something I thought I was like— it was— I just taught classes before work and after work, and it was, you know, a losing proposition. I wasn't making— you don't make any money teaching fitness classes, especially not back then. And I was working as a paralegal, uh, trying to get my LSAT score up so I can get into a better law school. I was doing personal training on the side. I was writing ebooks on the side. I was, you know, dabbling in all the things and fitness was just something like for fun to keep me fit. It was not something I thought would be a business.

Mm-hmm. But then it kind of ended up becoming, well, you and Brett kind of like turned it into this like big, you know, conglomerate type thing. I mean, it, it, it turned into something so much bigger than that.

Yeah. Once I decided to just put everything else aside and just focus on that because I saw a need. So when I— for that person who's listening who is struggling with which, which things should I pick, um, this is just my personal recommendation. I'm sure other experts have other opinions. My opinion is you make a list of all the things that you're— you are doing and are making you money that you're super passionate about, and then you want to look at the one that's got some— the, the greatest potential right now, like the timing for this, for me to make money, just doing this is probably the best. And, and I like it. Doesn't have to be your number one, but like there's really, really good timing and it's not just like a flash in the pan, something I could be doing only for a year or two. Like I, I could be doing this really well for at least the next 5 years and pick that one. But know that you can have a number 2 and a number 3, but pick one and then stick with it for a year. And Sam, 98% of people just won't do that. They just won't stick with it for a year, which is why so few people like really cross that threshold, you know, where they become, as they call it, become known.

Yeah. Yeah.

Once you hit that spot that you can do all the other things.

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Yeah, I know it's tough when you love everything, but it's kind of looking at it like the— I, I think of it in my head as like, I call it like bucket theory, and it's like you have all these different buckets, and if I'm pouring like 2 to 5 to 10 drops in every little bucket. From the outside, it looks like none of my buckets are really growing that much. But if I just took everything that I was pouring out to all these separate buckets and I just put it into one, I would really be able to see that, that, you know, line rise and, and see growth in that area. And I mean, you can apply that to business areas in your life, all of those things. So it really does help you see that concentrated growth when you can just focus on one thing. And I have a lot of friends, especially in coaching spaces that they've got a new niche like every 6 months and it's tough. And then they're like, oh, I don't know why, you know, I was doing fitness and now I'm doing this and my audience isn't really transitioning over with me and like no one really cares and my account feels dead now. And I think it's, you know, that's exactly what you're speaking to is like you didn't become known for something. So the people aren't kind of like transitioning along with you being a lifer of, of your brand.

And I think your audience a lot of times will tell you the nuances that they are most interested in. Um, and you know, you, you talked about like how, how do you stay very interested and focused on that? It's hard, especially if you are, cuz I find that most entrepreneurs are, if they're not diagnosed as ADHD, they're definitely easily distracted because it, it takes someone who sees inconsequent— details are inconsequential to other people— make those kinds of people that see those kinds of details and see patterns and see things that other people don't see, they make amazing entrepreneurs. The challenge is honing that focus and seeing the details in, in just one lane. And so of course I was distracted and wanted to do other things, but I would— in order to keep myself interested, I just did lots of other things in fitness. And would, and would try to like challenge myself because I want, I want excitement. I want, I want to learn new things all the time. So I would just challenge myself to, to spark all of that interest and keep myself excited and passionate about it, but in that lane.

Yeah, yeah, that's good advice. I love that. Just kind of like vary what you're doing but within the same niche. Yeah, cool. And your kids are really entrepreneurial as well. We We actually just had Brock on the podcast. Oh, you did? Not that long ago. Yeah. Earlier this year. Um, he crushed as always, you know, talking all Instagram stuff. Yeah. Um, but yeah. Do you think that that just happened from them watching you and Brett, or how do you think that— did you encourage them at all to—

Absolutely. We encouraged them. Absolutely. Um, you know, we always told them from the time they were really young, um, we did things like, uh, that we weren't gonna buy them a car, that they, you know, let's find some exciting fun ways from the time they were like 5 and 6 years old to make money, not like like have a, you know, business at 6 or whatever, but just like fun things, fun ways for them to be clever, solve problems, make money, make their own money. And we told them from the time they were old enough to understand that whatever money they made, they, when they were 16, would be able to buy their own car. Like, you are going to be able to pick it out and everything. And we, you know, that was just the messaging from the time they were very young. They were excited about it. And so that was That was instead of us telling them, hey, you're gonna have a lot more freedom as an entrepreneur. It was us giving them evidence. Yeah. Uh, giving them, so from the time they were very young, they had evidence that they had the freedom to pick whatever car they wanted because they had figured a way to earn the money to buy the car. Um, and of course they saw our lifestyles and there was probably a little bit of brainwashing in there too, you know? 'Cause you just hear us talking about like the, our beliefs around school and college and freedom and, you know, taking risks. Um, and what things make the most sense in terms of the lifestyle that you want. So we obviously, if they wanted to, both of them, if they wanted to go and get a job for, uh, someone else right now, that, that's great. That, and we totally support whatever they wanna do. But I, I think they saw a lot of examples that they wanted to emulate.

Yeah. So interesting. I know it's funny to think about now, like my partner and I talk a lot about this and he's like, my kids, they're not going to university. Like, he's like, there's so many opportunities nowadays. I'm like, well, they're probably gonna do whatever they wanna do. But yeah, I mean, and I think, I mean, Brock went to school, right? I think he went to college.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He went to, um, for, in fact, he went to Georgetown for, for business and he was just like, wow, I know, like, this is, seems really outdated. Yeah. I mean, and it's a great, like, no offense, it's a phenomenal school. Um, but then he transferred to UC Davis to play football there. Uh, and, uh, I forget what his degree was in, but I was like, Brock, dude, be in college for the following— because he already knew, he's already— by, by his sophomore year, he was already financially completely independent, like paying for his own living. And I think he was making six figures by the time he was a junior. And so I'm like, you, you're obviously gonna be an entrepreneur. So get the experience of college, of the networking, of the having to meet deadlines, the interesting people you end up having to live with, the, you know, learning how to survive in that system, creating ways to be organized. Get all as much as you can from that, but don't pick a degree that doesn't allow you to have fun. Like pick, pick a degree that's like, it, you could do it in your sleep. You know, don't— and don't worry about your grades. And because he's a Type A, you know, firstborn, so he was always like ridiculously hard on himself to get all A's. I'm like, dude, I will pay you to get a C and live, like, live life, you know. Kid would not break a rule if we paid him to.

Oh my God, that's hilarious. But you're not like that at all, so he definitely didn't get that from you.

No, no. Yeah, I don't— I don't know, you know, everyone's DNA is a little different. But yeah, I'm definitely a rule breaker. I was a horrible kid, but Yeah, he just was like, you know, afraid to break, afraid to do, not to do things by the rules. And I think he's broken himself of that now. But, and then our other child, our daughter Sierra, she's kind of the opposite. She's like, I don't want, I don't want, if there's a rule, I don't want to follow it.

She's definitely like an out of the box person.

Oh yeah.

She, I feel like she definitely wants to like stand out and be different.

Oh yeah. She would like, will not let me tag her in social media. Absolutely will not. You know, Brock's like, Mom, tag me. Yeah, like, I need those followers, you know. And Sierra's like, I doing this a little differently.

Yeah, so interesting. Well, and I'm sure they saw, because like entrepreneurship, there's so many highs and lows, it's such a roller coaster. I'm sure they also saw some of that from you guys. Um, you've been really candid about your experience of you and Brett like being $500,000 in debt and finding that out kind by surprise. You were a little blindsided by that.

Oh God, yes.

Okay, talk to us about that kind of phase of life and, and what the biggest factors were maybe in getting you guys through that and helping you overcome it.

Hmm, where to start? So first I'll answer about the kids seeing hard times. They definitely did, and that was a— that even to this day I still have a lot of fear and guilt that some of what we role modeled to them in our early entrepreneur days was the hustle, you know, and like trying to do all things yourself and not being able to slow down. Brock knows Brock is, is like so super balanced. Um, and, but my daughter, I, I, I see and hear some of those tendencies and, you know, it kind of makes me feel guilty because that's, that was like the 1.0 season of our lives. And, um, it's hard, you know, and, and it's really easy to fall into that trap. But we— yeah, so once I discovered that we were massively, massively, massively in debt, uh, it, it was because of a gambling addiction, right? So there was— it was, it was just really complicated because we're massively in debt and this is a huge betrayal, you know. So we were trying to figure out like how to— first of all, are we going to stay together? And how do, how do we stay together? How do— because the relationship had no trust at that point because it had been probably, you know, probably 12 years that he had been almost living a separate life, uh, that I was unaware of. And so there was the first thing we had to do was decide, okay, what do we do in terms of us? You know, forget about the business. We really did. We have to go— we had to go like, who cares? We can file for bankruptcy, bankruptcy if we need to, but what, what, what do we want? What's, what, what does this look like? And for Brett, it was a real relief. He was so relieved to be discovered, you know, cuz it was a secret. And as they say, secrets keep us sick. So it was like, he says it was like just the, the, this day, even though it was like super painful, it, it felt like the weight of the world being lifted off of him. And I felt like it was the weight of the world being put on me. Um, but eventually, and I'm like gonna fast forward the story because it was painful and it was never— I wasn't certain at any point in the first like year that like, okay, we're gonna make it, you know. I wasn't certain. Um, it was a lot of therapy and a lot of just going like, how did this happen? Then also beating myself up like, why was I so stupid. Like, so much of that, like, how dumb could I be? And, um, you know, so it was a lot, and it was a lot of therapy, and, and eventually, and a lot of anger. I was really, really angry at him, obviously. And, but then once I went to therapy, uh, what we discovered, what I discovered, was my own addiction, my addiction to work, and how that had really been like the perfect breeding ground for somebody who's addicted to gambling, you know, like we were like so codependent, didn't realize it. So it helped him to discover why he was gambling, helped me to discover why I was addicted to work, and it helped us to build a 2.0 marriage, a 2.0 relationship, a 2.0 business, a 2.0 life. Um, that rock bottom, you know, and I've had people say like, do you think you have to hit rock bottom to to understand that. I said, I don't think so. I think you have to— you have to listen to what other people have been through and learn from their mistakes, and that's incredibly valuable.

Yeah, I imagine that was a long and treacherous kind of journey getting back to a place of union between you guys. Oh yeah, but like, you guys are so amazing together. It's so fun and beautiful to watch. I feel like you age in reverse, the two of you. And I love you. Like, you guys always just look like you're having so much fun. You laugh together. Like, I love when he's on the podcast with you. It's just so, so funny. So any, any like tips for, you know, people wanting to have really successful long-term relationships or marriages that, you know, haven't been perfect? Because no one's will be. But You guys have been together for what, like almost 30 years at this point?

Yeah, 29. 29.

Yeah. And any time—

well, longer than that, but married 29. Um, so Sam, do you mean that people who work together or, or just in general?

Oh gosh, well, that's a whole nother thing in the mix, isn't it?

Yeah, just in general. Okay, so in general, I would say, um, therapy, therapy, therapy, because, you know, your marriage can only be as successful as the two of you are healthy, you know. And I think we all bring baggage and experiences and traumas and ego and other weird lenses through which we look at our partner at. And so, um, I think therapy is huge if you both commit to therapy separately. Like, I don't— I'm not talking about going to therapy together. I'm talking about like separately. I, you know, marriage counseling, eh. I'm not saying like it's not a good thing. I just don't know too many people that have really improved their marriage through marriage counseling. I know a lot of couples who've ended up divorcing because of things that happened in marriage counseling. I know it sounds strange, but I think individual therapy is really important, and a lot of luck and prayer and great role models and a commitment. And I just think that like I feel like Brett and I, we just got super lucky too that certain things like it, that we both are super crazy committed to being better for each other. I think that's kind of rare. I think most people are like, this person needs to improve for me. This person isn't growing. And, um, I just know that we both, and I think that's kind of luck cuz I, I didn't know that about him before I met him. Yeah. I, I wasn't something I like screened him for. But it's something we're both super duper committed to. And we, you know, one thing I did look for is I wanted somebody who had seen for themselves and had experienced what it looks like to stay together. And that might not be what people want to hear because you can certainly have an amazing marriage if you, you know, my own mother is an example that you can have an amazing marriage even if you come from a broken home. But what is it that you were role modeled and you paid attention to? And so you can be role modeled what not to do, and then you can be role modeled like what you're supposed to do and improve upon both of those things.

I love that. My, my parents are high school sweethearts and they've been together forever, and I feel so lucky. And I feel like that luck is definitely a part of my own relationship success of like witnessing and, you know, seeing my whole life a healthy love and committed relationship and two people that wanna work at staying together. But I think what you said about working on yourselves individually is really the key, because the better that you get and he gets, the better you get as, as a unit. So it makes a lot of sense.

You know, we still do therapy, both of us, regularly. Um, you know, like even this year, we both have done a lot of therapy this year that we feel like has made us even closer. So I'm just— and I'm a big fan of changing up your therapist too on a pretty regular— not like every month or whatever, but like every couple years. You should definitely check in with somebody new. It's like, you know, periodization. It's important.

Yeah. Get a new fresh perspective.

Totally. A new fresh perspective, a new style. Um, every therapist is a human, so they have their own lens. And I think it's, um, it's fun. Even sometimes it's painfully fun, but it's, it's very rewarding.

You guys are in your 2.0 season, as you've called it, this like, you know, new and improved version of life and travel and business and relationship and all of that. What has been your favorite part of this season? I know you guys traveled a bunch and were kind of like living all around, but what's been your favorite part of this new season?

Him, honestly, my husband. I know that sounds like so cheesy and people are pulling out a barf bag right now, but it's true. It's like, it's just sometimes I'm like, we shouldn't talk about this because it's gonna turn people off. People are jealous. Yeah, well, and also people are always like, you know, if you have to make such a big deal about your relationship, that's probably not a good one. Well, that's not true for us. Um, I just think it's— we're super— like, it's so fun to be in sync this way. It's fun to be young, having had our kids young. It's fun that we still like want to go out dancing and we want to do crazy things and we want— and we're still both super active. It's fun. My favorite thing about this season is you look— and I know this sounds terrible, but like once the kids are gone, it's a different type of freedom, you know? And also for us, this year especially, we've learned or are continue to learn how to just let our kids be and not give them advice and not worry about them. It's really hard, but that's also freeing because you feel that you still need to parent them, you still need to like give them advice, but you're not supposed to do that. We're learning. And, and that's freeing in a way, you know, to say like, oh, they're— they, they got this. They're going to make a lot of mistakes and that's what they're supposed to do.

I am so bad at like calling my parents regularly and like checking in, but they kind of— I think they have a similar perspective to you of like, okay, she'll figure it out.

Okay, good. I'm glad to hear that.

So when I do call, they're usually like, something's probably wrong with her car, or something happened that she doesn't have the answer to and she needs us. But no, I do, I do try to call them more often. But it's nice on the— to be on the receiving end of like that kind of parenting as an adult where they're not watching you over like a hawk or saying, okay, well, if you're gonna do this, or if you're gonna go for this job, or make sure that you do this, or, you know, set this up. And, and yeah, just kind of being able to do your life.

Advice? Do your parents give you advice where you haven't asked for it?

No. Never?

No. What, um, how many kids in your family?

Just me and my brother.

And who's the oldest?

My brother.

Okay. And do you know if they did that with him, or they— are they just good at this?

So my brother gave them a some more problems when he was a teen. He was, he was a little bit more of a— yeah, he gave them some issues. So they may have been giving him advice, uh, basically like, you just got kicked out of school, here's why, don't fucking do that again. So he probably got more talking tos than I did. Okay. But yeah, once we, once we grew up and moved out, it was just kind of like, you know, live your life. I mean, if I call them and I ask them for advice, of course, totally different. Yep. But they, they never unsolicited, you know, come and tell me like what I should be doing.

That's great. That's awesome. I'm working towards that.

Well, I mean, it means you care, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I know it does. But you also like— I'm, I'm reading a book called, uh, Adulting— Doing Like Adulting with Your Adult Child, I think it's called, or Parenting Your Adult Child. And basically every chapter is like, shut up. No, just, just shut up. Shut up. Every single chapter. And like, you know, it tells you, you think you have the right to say blah, blah, blah because of XYZ. You don't. Shut up. So it's like, oh, okay, I got it. Repeating that message. The other thing I love about this season is learning. We, you know, we've just learned how to do life a little easier, you know, and it's fun to Brett has really mastered investing and managing our portfolios. And so it's fun to not have to work, but to have to watch our money make us money so that our money's working harder than we are. That's fun. It's fun to be this age. I never expect— I just didn't think I would be excited about aging. I didn't think that I would still want to be doing stuff in business. This age, and I'm shocked how much I love it. I'm shocked at how many people dip out. So it's like there's, you know, you're looking around and there's like not very many cars on the lane anymore, in the lane, you know, that are people my age. And how fun it is to inspire women who are like in their 40s, even like, now's the time. Like, and the freedom that comes with being, having done so many things and had so many failures and successes is there's a freedom that comes with that where you're like, you're not tempted to do all the shiny things that everybody else is tempted to do. Like, there's a knowing that creates this quiet, calm confidence that you're just like, yeah, don't need to do that. You know, it's fun.

Yeah, yeah. You kind of— it's easier to stay in your lane and just know what you like and what you want to do and what's important and not get distracted by all the— yeah, shit. Oh, you are— I mean, like, you come across with this energy of just like confidence and you're so unapologetic. And obviously it's a super like attractive trait to have. But people say that that gets better with age. Would you agree? Like, have you been able to stop caring more as you got older, or do you think— and/or have you kind of always been like that?

I would say I've always been like that, but definitely it gets better with age, especially with regard to like just feminine comparison like that, especially when I was in consumer fitness videos. And I think that that phase of my life wasn't healthy for me because I'd never experienced that before. I'd never been someone who like thought, oh, this girl's taller than me, or thinner, or more ripped. I never thought about that stuff until I was, you know, thrust into this new environment. And oh God, that was so time-consuming and such a waste of time. And energy and debilitating in some regards. So getting out of that helped me to go back to who I was, where I love looking at other women no matter what size, shape, age, and just thinking like, oh, that's— she's amazing. And, and not feeling like I'm supposed to— I'm not enough in some regard. Uh, so I, to answer your question, I've been this way, but there's also a period in probably my my 30s and 40s, early 40s, where just comparison— and not so much about success, but just like physical things, like, am I thin enough? Am I tall enough? Am I, you know, whatever enough? Um, that I'm so glad that's over. And— but I had to change a lot of things. I had to pull myself out of an environment where that was, uh, detrimental for me.

And I think we've— now it's probably heightened for a lot of young women because of social media. And stuff. So I'm a huge fan of, you know, controlling the environment and muting, like curating who you're following and what you're looking at and making sure that that's stuff that's, you know, moving you forward in a positive direction rather than kind of like pulling you back into the comparison trap and, and all of that. So, okay, I'm curious about what your— you mentioned earlier of finding like a gap in the market. What's the biggest need? And then you just said now being in this 2.0 season and kind of like it was unexpected for you to be so interested in business still, and you're kind of looking around and you're like, there's no one else my age like still doing this. A lot of people are tapping out. Was like the perimenopause-menopause thing this perfect combination of a kind of like untapped market where women really do need a lot more support and something that you personally had gone through? Like, what was the thing that made you be like, I want to like go all in on this and like, you know, help people with it.

Well, what's funny is it wasn't strategic, which is— it should have been, but it wasn't strategic. Um, it just kind of coincided with a bunch of things happening at the same time. The first of which was, um, going through perimenopause at the same time that I left fitness. So it just was this weird— I just stepped away from doing infomercials when I still had a number one infomercial on TV. And decided I'm, I'm done. Like, I can't do this anymore, and I can't keep exercising this way and eating this way, and this is not healthy for me. And the, the same year that I stepped out, I started experiencing perimenopause. So in my mind, I was— it was a real mindfuck. Like, okay, am I— is this perimenopause? What is going on? Is this because I've left fitness that I'm having all these weird symptoms and I'm putting on weight? And but at the same time I started to feel better about my body. So I knew that was something like, that was me, that was a healthy thing that I left, right? But I— and I also started to feel better about my body even though I was exercising less. So I'm trying to figure out perimenopause and fitness all at the same time and, um, really deep diving into that and, and really trying to understand it, but also trying to step away from diet and fitness, like formally, you know what I mean? And the more I learned about perimenopause and started like putting these things into practice, and also fearing menopause, like, because we've been told, like, oh, it's horrible, and you're, you know, going to dry up, and you're not going to want to have sex, and your, your hair is going to fall out, and you're going to gain a bunch of weight. And I was like, my God, this sounds terrible, absolutely terrible. And hot flashes. And that's all that I heard. But I had some great integrative doctors who were like, no, no, no, if you start early, like, we can— you start on hormone replacement therapy now and we start managing your hormones now, menopause is going to be much easier to manage. And it was— I found that to be true for me. And as I started to figure these things out and started exercising less and started understanding how to break up with that diet dogma and also balancing my hormones, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, wait a second, I'm menopausal, I'm through menopause, I didn't have one hot flash. And I, my body fat is down and my energy is up and I'm exercising. Like, I, like, I've made it. I'm, I'm at the after party and this is amazing. And I'm having these conversations with my, you know, everyone has their thread that you talk to all your girlfriends on, right? And so I've got like 12 girls on my thread and they're all the same age as me. And like, nobody knows this. Like, they're all like, wait, so you did what? Who said, you know? And, and a lot of them don't live in Southern California. So it's like just sharing all this information going like, these girls are most of them health coaches and really smart, and they've got the money for great care, and they don't know this. And I started talking about it more on my podcast and my audience. And that's another way to like kind of know when it's time to shift into a different lane is when your audience is just like every single question is about the same topic. You're like, okay, we need, we need to stay here for a minute. And there was just so many questions and so much misinformation and so many myths that I was like, I'm just going to stay here and I've got this platform, I need to use it because man, there's some really bad information out there and a lot of general practitioners who just are doing women a great disservice and putting them at higher risk of all-cause mortality because they're giving them outdated information. And so I'm just going to keep talking about this. And at about that same time, I had a non-compete, uh, in place because of some sales of former businesses that once that non-compete lifted, I'm like, I can help these women in a more profound way too. So, um, it's just kind of like, wasn't strategic, but it's just paying attention to what I'm interested in. And also that's why I always say it's important to build your brand, attract your lifer, because as you grow and change and each season you go in, your lifer's probably going in, in, in a similar season and you can help them.

Yeah, so true.

Okay, so let's—

I want to talk about some of these things because I mentioned I've been learning a lot already and I'm like, okay, I'm ready. Like, I'm 30, but like, I'm ready.

Let's go.

Yeah. So what are some of the top tips that, you know, some of the women that listen to my show, we can take away just really quickly that you've learned? Obviously, step count is huge. You've been talking about that a lot, but like, what else?

Well, I would say to any woman who's 30 and under 40, 40, right? Know all of the perimenopausal symptoms because you will not think it's perimenopause. You will be like, it just will not be on your radar. And when you recognize what the symptoms are, then you can go like, okay, wait a second, this isn't me being in a pissed off mood all the time. This could be progesterone. Or wait a second, my skin is super dry, but I'm 36 years old. This has nothing to do with menopause. 'Yeah, it's perimenopause,' you know. And so it's like knowing those symptoms, because what we do know is that women who get on hormone replacement therapy, some type of hormone support, the younger— the earlier they do that, the easier menopause is. So in that range of like— and it can be a 10-year period, right? So anywhere from like 36, 38 to menopause, those are things to look at. And you can regulate that. You don't have to necessarily do hormone replacement therapy. Or bioidentical hormones, but there's so many ways you can balance hormones with your lifestyle, with your sleep, with your workouts, you know, increasing your testosterone, your human growth production, like all those things. Like there's so many cool things you can do without having to necessarily to take hormone replacement therapy. You can balance your hormones, and to be aware of that is huge because nobody wants this horrible ugly picture that's been painted. Right. And it doesn't have to be that way. Um, with regard to exercise, I think that especially for women who, you know, are 40 and above, we grew up like believing it— if you weren't crawling and every inch of your body was drenched in sweat, you should really shouldn't call it a workout. Like you were just messing around, you know? So I think it's recognizing how much stress that puts on the body. How stress keeps us fat. I don't care what you're doing with your diet. If you're stressed about your diet, you're still going to be carrying around extra body fat. For me, and everybody's totally different, so I will never tell like, "Okay, here's the diet you need to do." I don't believe that at all. You know, so what I'm going to share with you is just what worked for me. I'm not saying this is going to work for everybody, but for me, I just stopped counting calories. I just stopped counting my macros. I just stopped worrying about how many minutes of exercise I was doing. And because that was making me carry a lot of stress. I literally had hired a coach, you know, you know my background, but I had hired a coach to basically harass me to get the perfect macros every day. And it was so freaking stressful for me that I was like putting on weight even though I was like hitting my macros. And once I was just like, screw it, I'm just gonna eat what I want. I'm gonna start with like healthy protein and greens and I'm not going to look at it. I'm not going to worry about like, is this a portion the right size of the palm of my hand and, you know, am I in ketosis? Just live and eat healthy and the weight started to come off. My cortisol, it's not just the weight, you know, because I have my hormone levels regularly tested. My cortisol, I cut it in half and so did my husband and he dropped 10% body fat, I dropped 12% body fat. Not immediately, like over the course of a year. But really focusing on like— but that was what was right for me. You know, for other people, maybe they need to look at their macros, but for me, I had to really figure out like, what is stressing me out? And which workouts are creating too— are too demanding on my body? They're creating that inflammatory response and the oxidative stress that can translate into systematic stress. Again, stress kills us. Stress makes us fat and stress kills us.

I so relate to that because even in my 20s, I was trying to avoid the, you know, cycle of gaining weight in college. You know, you're drinking, you're partying, you're doing whatever. I studied abroad in Europe, I ate a bunch, and then I was like, oh shit, like, ah, like, I gotta fix this. And so I went that exact route. Okay, let's count macros and let's track food. And I remember putting in full bottles of wine to— in my— into my freaking my FitnessPal tracker. Like, oh God, what is this gonna show me? I'm like, oh no, shoot, that wasn't good. Um, but yeah, tracking everything and HIIT workouts. Like, that was all I did, dude, was interval training and HIIT workouts. And I could not lose any fat. I— like, nothing was changing. It was horrible. And then at one point when I moved to Spain, I was like, all right, I'm gonna give that up. I'm just gonna do yoga for a couple months. Like, I just need a reset. I need I need to find a way to love myself again. I need to find a way to talk nicer to myself. I started doing meditation, affirmations, yoga. I didn't even go to the gym. I quit my membership. And 7 months passed. I shed all of that excess body fat and I was feeling so much better and I was less paranoid about everything.

Sam, did you say that you were— you doing the HIIT workouts and tracking your macros when you were abroad or No, I was— until you went abroad?

No, I went abroad. I had a great time, didn't give a—

then no care in the world.

Met my partner on Tinder. I was like, ah, what's happening? I don't know. And here we are. So that was my, you know, gallivanting moment at 21. Went back to school and then I was like, this shit's real. I'm overweight. Like, let's figure this out. And then I was trying to do that my senior year of college, which is—

I see.

Counterintuitive to begin with. But right, yeah, so it was that, that last year of school where I was like trying to kill myself in the gym and doing intense HIIT workouts. Same thing as you said, thinking that I need to be dripping sweat or else it doesn't count. I recently just started weightlifting and I'm like, this is fun. Like, I don't— I'm— this isn't like horrendous. Like, I can actually, I can actually go to the gym and like have a, you know, fine time. Like, I don't feel like I'm killing myself.

Love it. It's just my You can't rip the weights out of my hands. I love strength training so much. I just— you know how— maybe runners are like this. I hear people talk about a runner's high, you know, and I'm like, "I don't get it." I mean, I kind of do. But with strength training, women who haven't lifted heavy at the gym, I'm like, "Oh man, you don't even know about this drug." It is like a game changer. It's just a secret weapon.

Changes your mood entirely.

Everything. Changes everything. Changes your confidence, changes your intimacy, it changes your testosterone level, it will change your shape. Cardio does not change your shape, you know, and like I have less cellulite now, and I'm 55 years old, than I did when I was 35, than I did when I was 45. I would never be caught— I would never be caught dead like walking away from people without a cover-up on, you know, in my 30s and 40s. And now I'm like, pssh, like, and that's muscle. And what's a remarkable piece of knowledge is that when you're strength training, your body, you progressively get better and better and better. Like, you're adding and improving your body composition at any age when you start lifting. And when I'm, of course, speaking specifically about progressive overload. Overload, where you're continually going a little bit heavier, a little bit heavier, a little bit heavier. Like, you know, if you're stuck at the same weight, you're going to be stuck with the same body. Like progressively increasing the amount of weight that you use. And so I know this isn't popular, especially someone who created millions and millions of at-home workouts, but you can't get that kind of progressive overload working out at home. Unless you have like a full-blown, you know, gym and all the equipment and all the machines at home. Because for women in particular, we can't even pick up weights heavy enough to go to that level, you know, like you need a machine. So I'm a big fan of getting a gym membership, um, you know, you can get it at like whatever, Planet Fitness, something affordable so that you can really focus on that progressive overload. It's a game changer.

And what's the importance of lower body? So I've heard you talk about this, especially for women, like lower body, focusing on that.

Um, it's like bang for your buck, right? So 76% of your muscle composition is in your lower body. So if muscle is your metabolic spanx, if muscle is what improves your metabolism, if muscle is what gives us longevity, it helps us to balance our hormones, it helps us to produce more testosterone, more human growth factor, it helps us to balance estrogen. It helps us to regulate our insulin levels, then why would you not focus on the bigger muscles, right? Like, you know, great, I did biceps today, but I'm always like, "Eh, it's bicep day." Like, I want to do leg day every day, and that's not healthy. It's not good for you. You need that rest. But I am a really big fan of if you want to reduce your body fat, if you want to change your shape, then start where you've got the most muscle, and that's lower body, you know? But for, again, I think a lot of women don't realize their strength potential and what they could be lifting with their lower body. Mm-hmm.

And it's fun. It's fun to realize how strong you are.

It's, it, it just makes you feel so much more confident. You know, I love it. You just put on like a great playlist and, you know, hit those big heavy weights. And, um, it, it w— it, I truly do believe it is the fountain of youth. You know, I've, and, and I've started following women in their sixties and seventies and eighties. Who are remarkable in terms of the muscle definition that they have and the amount of, you know, what they've been able— how they've been able to transform their bodies. And it just has me so excited, like, because I know I'm just going to get stronger, you know? And that just comes with time.

I love that you're such an expander for, for me and so many other younger women in this area, because it's like there's always so, so much like fear, like we were talking about before, around aging and getting older and, oh, what you what's coming. And even with things like parenthood and having kids and, you know, all that stuff, I'm trying to, you know, put myself in spaces and talk to people who are like, it can be great, and, you know, this is really helpful, and this was so much fun, it's not as bad as people say. And, and just kind of like letting that be my North Star. So yeah, hey, I love that you're sharing all of this, and you've inspired me to up my step count. Yeah, I got my Oura Ring. I'm like, girl, we need to get out.

Did you hear Apple's coming out with a ring? I heard from you, and then I was like, oops, all right, too I know, right? Like, so I— like, right now mine is so tarnished and ugly and disgusting, and I'm, I'm— everything in— I'm using all of my strength not to buy another ring until Apple comes out with theirs, because I just know it's going to be sexy and cool and like amazing, right? Because they've— I, I researched it. They've had a patent and filed for a patent on theirs and trademark back in 2015. So that means for 10 years they've been working on this, their own version of Ring.

I can't wait. I hope they, I hope they can make it a little bit thinner or more inconspicuous than the Oura.

See, now I like a big chunky ring, but that's what I said. They're going to do something that is sexier. They always do. It's going to feel Apple-esque. I think the technology in these rings is such that it's probably about as small as it can get, but who knows? But like maybe it would, I don't know. I just think we're going to get to a place soon where a ring is going to say, you are deficient in protein. You are You know, 20% off the mark in terms of your water. You need more magnesium. Like, we're going to get there. Like, we can't be more than like 5 years away from that. And that's going to be really cool.

Yeah. That's wild to think about too, though. Right? Kind of crazy. And then, I'm like, what else are they tracking about me with this thing?

Yeah. I mean, for women that are trying to get pregnant, like, this is an amazing way to track your fertility and to track your cycle and to track— it's remarkable. It's just remarkable. And I'm not like trying to sell Oura Ring at all. At all because I'm going to wait to get the Apple Ring. But like, it's just so cool to know. And like, step count, right? Like, so I, um, recently just did this whole challenge with women to help them reset their energy, and it was like to walk every day. And when I started the challenge off, I told women, you know, I want you to just set a goal for how many minutes per day you want to walk intentionally. And in the middle of doing the, um, challenge, as I do, I'm like doing all this research, all this research, all this research on step counts and, you know, women and walking. And I discovered this research that had been published in— I forget now, I think it was the Journal of Public Health— where they had taken this big group of midlife women and they had one group track the number of minutes they exercised per day, and the other group just tracked their step count. And at the end of the study, they found that the women who tracked their step count were 60% more active, even though the women that hit their minute mark were, you know, they were hitting their goal, but they, the women who focused on their step count were just that much more active. And so in the middle of the challenge, I was like, all right, you guys, I know in the beginning I told you to, you know, worry about your minutes. I'm like, no, I'm wrong. Like the research says, look at your step count. And I started doing that myself. And I noticed that it keeps like climbing up now that I'm focused on my step count as opposed to just how many minutes I walk each day.

In your research, or what do you think? Because the 10,000 steps a day has kind of been like the standard for like so many years. Do you think that that's still like a good goal for people to hit?

I think a goal— the goal is always more. That's the goal, right? So people hold on to 10,000 steps. That's great. You know, we, we, we know that that originally came from a Chinese, uh, marketing campaign around a pedometer, like just the manual pedometer that you wear, and it would go click, click, click every time you walk. And we don't know where they came up with that number, but it's pretty accurate. So there have been a lot of studies looking at how improved health markers are just by walking 8,000 steps twice a week. Now, I don't like saying that, to be honest, because I don't want someone holding on to 8,000. Like, that's like, you live a little bit longer, but no, you want optimal. So optimal, we, we just should spend so much less time sitting, you know. So I, I've got new habits for myself. I bought a walking pad, I bought a tread— walking desk treadmill, and I just don't— like, I do my podcast now standing up. Um, I— if I'm on my phone scrolling, I force my— like, it's a habit now, like, because, you know, social media is— I force myself to just pace, you know, even if I'm not walking fast. I'm just, just pace, which is annoying, which means I'm spending less time on my phone scrolling. You know, so it's like a win-win. And so, yeah, 8,000 is great. 10,000 is great. But more than that is even better. Like, we should just be walking twice as much as most of us are.

Yeah. I'm waiting for your walking pad recommendation. I'm like, I'm waiting for her to test all these and tell me which one I need to buy.

Okay, awesome.

Because that's another thing about Shalene you guys need to know is that she is the Amazon queen. So you need to check out her favorites. She has the best finds.

I'll get you in all kinds of trouble.

You can really trust her recommendations. If she recommends a supplement, you should probably take it. It. If she tells you to buy something, you should probably go do it. If she shares a recipe, don't ask questions, just make it.

You really are a lifer, Sam. Where do you walk? Do you walk outside or do you walk on a treadmill?

Yeah, so we, we live right near the beach, so I'll either walk on the beach or around like our little neighborhood here. Mostly like, I like to walk outside because we have a dog and he goes for 4 walks a day, but I do need to walk more. So we have a little gym here in our condo, so I can do— I tried to do like, okay, I'm only going to answer messages or DMs while I'm on the treadmill walking, but that didn't— it didn't fully stick. So I might try your, like, pacing thing, because it's like, I get— I, I start doing it, and then I'm like, oh, I got to go all the way down to the gym and get on the treadmill to continue doing this. I didn't have— I didn't, like, discipline myself enough to do it. So maybe the pacing thing would help too.

I think so. You've got a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to your podcast. I would recommend— like, that's the thing I hate doing as an entrepreneur, is like responding to emails, responding to direct messages, like sitting down doing like Canva, those kinds of things. So now, like, I hate the computer work, but like, we have to do the computer work, right? So now I'm just like, okay, I'm just gonna walk slow and do it. And I find for myself personally, there is some getting used to this, but even if you don't have a walking desk at home, if you've got like a gym, you can just— they sell these really inexpensive like things you can put across the handlebars of the, um, treadmill and bring your laptop and work on work. You know, you can get like 2 hours worth of work and just— I'm not saying like you're speed walking, but like just going at a nice slow pace. And it's crazy how your creativity and your focus— for a lot of us entrepreneurs, when we're doing something that that's— we don't have to focus too hard on it. Like, I'm— I don't do choreography, but I'm just walking and working, and it makes me look more forward to my computer work, and it makes me healthier, and you're going to get in more steps.

I love that idea. I might need to do that, like, just because I block time for that stuff anyway. So just block it and then go down to the gym and put the little thing on.

And one of those, it's just like a little plastic thing, they're like $30, and you just bring it with you to the gym. Who cares if someone has an issue with it?

Like, they No. Yeah, I love that. I'm gonna try that actually. So good. Well, Shaleen, you're the best. Um, I want to be like you when I grow up. So thank you for sharing your time and your wisdom with us today. If you guys want to be endlessly entertained and informed, you can go follow Shaleen at Shaleen Johnson.

Uh, listen to her podcast, The Shaleen Show.

Super fun as well. Um, and yeah, we'll link everything in the show notes for you guys. If you have a friend, a sister, a mom, a coworker, someone who might enjoy this episode, copy the link, send it to them in a text, and let them know that you were thinking of them. We love you guys, and we will talk to you next week.

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