Building an Uncopyable Brand & Becoming Influential [without Being an Influencer] w/ Ange Simson

What's up, you guys?

Welcome back to the podcast. We have such an amazing episode for you this week. Today I am joined by social media branding coach, one of my powerhouse Australian clients, and a former member of Top Tier Mastermind, Ange Simpson. We dive into the art of influence without being an influencer, from crafting a personal brand that feels aligned to selling without feeling cringy. Ange shares the intentional strategies behind her 7-figure empire, and Ange's growth is something that is super, super inspiring. She is a young mom of 4 and has gone from network marketer to a 7-figure coach in under 2 years. She's grown to over $500,000 in sales in just the past 12 months alone. And I'm really, really excited to bring her on the show and share her zone of genius with you guys. In this conversation, we chat about, you know, what to do when you're going to pivot in your business. Should you start a fresh Instagram account? How to really build a personal brand without sharing your whole life or sharing your kids and things like that. How posting less can actually help you to sell more. Angie's strategy for high-converting Instagram stories. The idea of omnipresence, how to create it and really building a brand that is everywhere all the time without burning out or having to post constantly. The 3 pillars that boost your influence without actually making you have to turn into being an influencer or acting like an influencer. Secrets for building curiosity and hype around your offers without relying on the typical scarcity strategies of buy now or offer ends soon, and how being cringey is actually what made Ange a 7-figure business owner. Ange is one of those people that moves quickly.

She takes action.

Whatever she's learning, she's integrating it quickly and making moves in her business. So it was so fun to get to work with her as a client and also just witness her own zone of genius when it comes to social media and content and aesthetics. So I'm really, really excited to share her wisdom with you guys. She's so amazing. Welcome to the show, Ange. Let's dive in.

Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shit happen.

Happen.

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It is a 12-month high-touch business mastermind designed to help online coaches and service providers scale sustainably, build an uncopiable brand, and become a respected voice in the industry. We meet weekly for live hot seat coaching calls where you'll receive direct feedback and advice from me as well as from your peers on life, business strategy, messaging, sales mindset, feminine leadership, and more. Now what really sets Top Tier apart from the other business masterminds is our commitment to quality and the fact that not just anyone can join.

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I can't wait to read your applications. Welcome to the show, Ange. I'm so excited to have you on. I was thinking about this today, and I feel like the Aussies that come into my world are always the most aesthetic, like, driven powerhouses. I've really loved, like, all of my Australian clients. And actually, one of my Australian clients turned into my longtime assistant who's been on the Samantha Daly team for 4 years now. So I do, I do love the Aussies, and I feel like all the ones that come into my world and through my work are so incredible. And you're absolutely no exception. We got to work together last year in Top Tier Mastermind, and I'm so grateful that our paths crossed because it's been so much fun just to watch you really take off over the past 12 months, you know, and build this incredible brand and community, and also kill it at mom life. And just, I feel like you, you hold a lot. And so you inspire me endlessly, and I really do love you and your, your energy and how you show up for your people. And I'm so happy that you're here to grace us with your zone of genius, because you are a genius in your own right. So welcome to Makeshift Happen.

Thank you. I love being here. It's so cool to be on a podcast that I've listened to for so long. I'm like, this is awesome, this is amazing, one of the best podcasts out there. So I feel very proud right now.

Thank you. I love that. I wanna go back a little bit and kind of talk about your journey in business before you started coaching, because I remember when we first had conversations, you were kind of talking to me about how you had really grown and scaled in other sectors. I think there was some network marketing and stuff that happened there, but then you moved into coaching and you obviously had built already a lot of skillset around social selling and, you know, the online environment and you know, social media and all of that. And I'm sure that that has really helped you in this pivot. But yeah, I'm really curious about the journey that led you to doing what you do now. Cause I saw recently one of your posts that said like, you were saying like, I have to confess that like when you saw these people that were making all this money, like $50K, $100K months, like you thought it was bullshit and you thought that they were like lying and you would just laugh it off. And now you are one of those people. So tell us a little bit about like that transition and that journey.

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Yeah, it's kind of crazy because I remember having like my first $4,000 month and being so stoked with life and so just like, this is incredible. And so back then, seeing people making $40,000 or $50,000 was like, I'm sorry, what? Like, $4,000 is exciting for me. How are you like 10x-ing what I'm doing when I'm so happy with this number? So I actually started as a health coach. So when we were wanting to fall pregnant, me and my ex-husband, I had really bad migraines, like would take me out. I'd be sick for days, so bad. And so I was like, I need to get healthy. So I started— I studied health coaching, and halfway through the course I was like, oh my gosh, like, do people know that being healthy makes you feel so good? And like, I had bad acne and I cleared my acne and I lost weight, and I was like, I need to share this with people. So this was 11 years ago. So I started an Instagram page. I decided to actually use my health coach certification to become a health coach, and I loved social media and I love marketing. Like, I've always been such a big— like, it's such a cool platform. Even when I used to work in my ex-husband's fashion boutiques, I was using MySpace to sell to our interstate clients and customers. They would come to the Gold Coast for Christmas, and I would— I made like a MySpace page for the shop, which back then everyone was using it for like photos of their friends and all the things. And I'm like, no, no, I'm like, I'm doing this for the shop. I'm gonna upload photos. I'd like put the girls that worked for us in outfits on my little Canon camera, like upload it to the computer, put it onto MySpace. Then take phone orders. So I've always been really into the social media side. And so when I was health coaching, I booked out really quickly for my capacity. And I've got to admit, like, I had a newborn when I started coaching, so I was doing like 2 days a week during her nap. But I had other health coaches that I had studied with start coming to me and being like, what are you doing? Like, you're booked out. How— like, how are you getting so many clients? How are you getting all these followers? And so I decided to kind of help them. And so I was like kind of health coaching, kind of business coaching, and then got into network marketing for like 6 years, which I loved because I learned so much. And really, like, in network marketing, you really develop your skills as a coach, and you build a lot of, like, grit because it's not an easy industry to be in. It's very, like, it's controversial in some ways and all of the things. And then, yeah, like, about a year and a half ago, I just realized I wasn't giving enough of what I had. And I had so many people saying, I want to work with you, but I don't want to do network marketing. I want to work with you, can you help me with my social media? And I'm like, right, I'm just gonna do it. And so here I am, almost a year and a half later, and I'm like, best thing I did, just following my gut and also the advice of like a lot of people around me being like, step it up, girl, you've got so much more to give.

And here we are. Yeah, I think we're similar in that way of just kind of like having this natural draw and tendency towards the marketing and messaging side of things. I think you're someone who I see also has a real natural talent for that kind of stuff and probably always has in a lot of ways, because when most people were just using MySpace to, you know, rotate their top 8, you were thinking about how you could make money from it and how you could use it for sales, which is like, you know, crazy. And obviously you, you got started when even things that had nothing to do with coaching or any type of like digital products, it was like for, you know, a physical brick and mortar or like fashion or whatever it was that you were selling. But yeah, and I, you know, I also was in network marketing for a couple of years and I agree, I think it really built my skillset. It really expanded me in terms of how much I was willing to put myself out there in terms of like face to camera, cuz it really demands that of you to really build the trust. And I also think it built a thicker skin because like you said, there are a lot of people that will just automatically shit on something when they find out that it's like network marketing. And so you do, you have to build a lot of that. And that really helped me in my own journey of, you know, with coaching. I kind of have like a nitty-gritty sort of question that I'm sure people listening are curious about because there's so many people that want to pivot or they have a desire to move into something a little bit different, to use their, their skill set but to kind of shift, you know, the niche or whatever it is that they want to offer. When you decided a year and a half ago to really go all in on your skill set and start coaching, did you start a brand new Instagram account? Did you transition the one that you already had? What was your perspective on that since you are, you know, such a social media girly?

Yeah, look, I just pivoted the one that I had. I feel like this is the power of a strong personal brand, and that's why I'm so passionate about women in business starting a personal brand and being really intentional around the values and what kind of things they are sharing. So it's like, I wasn't going from like a health product and network marketing business to like, I don't know, selling like poison to children or something, like candy or like vapes, or I don't know, like I wasn't going into selling something completely out of it. Like, I had spoken a lot about mindset. Obviously my page is called The Gratitude Project because it started off as a real like mindset piece. And so it wasn't outside my scope of values. It wasn't something that was completely off-brand. And my page was always my personal brand. My page was not my network marketing business. It was not my health coaching business. It was not anything other than like who I am and what I am as a brand. And so for me, it made sense to just keep that page going. And like, of course, when I did transition, there was a bit of a drop-off when I was kind of a bit stagnant, like I was sitting about 80,000 followers and I— or about 84, I think. And I remember like when I really started speaking into like business coaching again, it was a little bit of a drop, but then there was a huge rise and I went from like that 80 to 130 quite quickly because my messaging was really clear on who I was looking for. And while I was definitely losing people who were like, I'm so not interested in what she's talking about, I was gaining more. So it didn't really matter. And I, I'm like, you know, if it's your personal brand stick with the page you have. Like, unless you're completely like, I am reinventing who I was before is not who I am, like, I'm still the same me, I'm just doing a different business, you know?

Yeah, you know, we've talked about this a lot behind the scenes with my clients in Top Tier. I just had a conversation about this with someone on the podcast, even just the difference between growing a following and growing a brand. And I think that's something that you talk about a lot because it would be really easy to go super narrow on something and do a ton of education content and just build, like, rack up followers versus building a brand is really where they're here for you more so than just, oh, I, I just wanted those recipes, or I just wanted whatever it was that you were giving me. They really are there for you. I think you do that really beautifully. And also something that I think you do really well that I'm excited to talk to you about is the idea of building a personal brand without sharing your whole life, because I think sometimes people associate, okay, personal brand, if they want, if they're going to be here for me, that means that I need to share all of all of my life, you know, all the behind the scenes, everything that I'm doing, what I'm eating in a day, you know, vlog style Instagram stories, like take them along with me through everything. But you definitely do not do that, and I know you've talked about this quite a lot. Why did you stop doing things like posting anything about your family or your kids, and how does that align with still building a personal brand but attracting the right types of clients?

The kid thing is just one part of it, but it's like, so I've got I've got 4 daughters. 2 are my biological daughters, 2 are my stepdaughters. And, you know, one thing I noticed, especially because like one of them's 16 and so she's a bit older and values her privacy, you know, they would kind of complain about being on other people's social media, whether it was like friends or other family members or anything like that. It was always like, oh, they posted this thing of me, oh, they put this picture up I don't like. And I'm like, wow, I just had this like moment where I was like, like, what we put out there is forever, and they don't fully understand the scope of like you're being put in front of 100,000 people. Us, you know, more than that sometimes, sometimes a million people. And so for me, it was a discussion with the girls of, do you want to be on social media? And they were all like, well, not particularly. They were like, it's okay sometimes, like if we like the picture and if it like we approve it, so to speak, or if it's something we're doing, then they're like, yeah, that's fine, but not particularly. Like, they're like, I don't particularly want my face on there and I don't want to be like a part of the show. And I was like, all good, so you're not. And so anytime, you know, if they're— even if I post them from behind, I'm like, hey guys, this, like, I was gonna post this, are you okay with it? And half the time they say no, half the time they say yes. And if they say no, it's like never a discussion of like, oh, but please, like, can I please post you? Like, I'm very just conscious that it's their choice whether they're on social media or not, and it's their bodies, it's their faces, it's all of the things. So that was one thing with the kids. But the other thing was I found that I went through a phase where I was really confused about what I wanted to be sharing, and I almost thought I had to post like a lifestyle influencer. And so it was like, you know, here's my makeup, here's what I'm eating, here's how I'm exercising, let me tell you about my relationship with Adam, let me share with you my work day, let me share what I bought when I went shopping. And I was like, what is the point of this? Like, why am I sharing it all? And I definitely noticed that there were some things that I shared for my ego, you know, like my partner and I— like, if there was something I could share, because he's very— like, he's a very conscious man, he's a very great girl dad, you know. And so part of me was like, am I just sharing this to show off my man? Like, am I just sharing the photo of my ex-husband am I with our girls to show off that we have a great relationship? Like, is this adding value to my audience, or is it something that I'm just doing for my ego, for my own validation? And so there was a little bit of like self-reflection of what am I doing to add value to the world, and what am I doing to kind of just validate my own awesome life, if that makes sense. And so I cut back on the things that I felt like were my ego. I cut back on the things that I felt like weren't coming from a place of adding value and service, you know.

So what does that look like now? Like this idea of not posting irrelevant content or not posting things that are for your ego. What's kind of that process or that filter that you run things through in terms of like what you're gonna share? Like how do you approach Instagram stories? Because I think that's the space where we do tend to get more like personal behind the scenes, like lifestyle-y. Like maybe you keep your feed really narrow for your ideal client, but then sometimes you go really rogue in stories, which is— I think that's fine for some people. It's also based on like your personality, but to your point, I I think it's worked really well for you in terms of like growing the right audience, right? How do you view that and what's that filtration process of like what you're going to post versus what you're not?

Seriously, it's just like, is this adding value to someone or not? Like, if it's going to add value and it makes sense. And so I think there's one thing where like, you know, on the relationship side of things, like I'm not a relationship coach, I've been divorced, so it's like, can I really go and give advice on relationships? Like, yes, I've learned a lot and maybe I could give some good tips, but you know, it's almost like if someone comes to my page because want to learn more about online marketing and building a brand. And then I'm like, here's how to connect with your partner, here's how to have great communication, here's how to do all of these things. And like, I'm going to be honest, like 50% of our relationship is because he's done so much personal development and I've done some on my— like a lot of it is just that we're two people who were relatively, you know, conscious and aware of like our own crap before we came into it. And I'm like, so am I really— like, is this again, is it adding value? Is it something that my audience would walk away from and really go, yeah, that was great, that was what I wanted to learn. But also, it doesn't make sense for my business. Doesn't make sense, like, in a way of if someone's coming for marketing and messaging and I'm suddenly talking about, hey, here's how we calm our children down before bedtime, or here's how my partner and I connect after a big day, like, it's like, it's irrelevant, right, for some people. Now, again, if I was a lifestyle influencer, or if I was speaking on relationships, or if my, you know, my work was different, it would be a different story. But yeah, again, it's just, it goes through the filter of, does this add value to the dream client that I want to attract right now? And if it's not, then it doesn't go on there.

I feel like when I first started my business, I was way more in like the lifestyle influencer kind of category. I was sharing so much in all these different aspects about life, about my relationship, about— to your point, I would do like workouts on Instagram Live, you know, like it was just everything. Also because I was finding myself. Yeah. And so I think it is a journey that a lot of us go through. So we're also not saying this from a standpoint of like judgment or like that you're doing something wrong per se, because like we've all done that. But what I have noticed for myself as I continue to like grow and evolve in my own brand and leadership and kind of hone in on the content that I wanna share, I realize that it has me posting less, but posting more powerfully. Like what I am sharing in Stories is so much less. I remember the days when I used to have like 20 Story slides up every single day because it was like every moment of my day was an opportunity to just, you know, oop, the Snapchat, oop, but this is what, oop, this is my food, this is what I was doing, here's me at the pool, here's this. And now it's much more curated, but it's also more powerful that way and really helps bring someone through the values of the brand and what I'm actually trying to teach them when they become a client. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that too, of like posting less but posting more powerfully.

And I don't know about you, but when I post less, my views are so much higher. Like, the algorithm loves when I post less in my stories. I'm like, it's so good. I'm like, if I've got something really powerful I need to share, or like releasing something new, I'm like, I get one slide that day. I'm like, one really powerful slide, and sometimes it's like 10 times the views than what I would get if I posted 20 different slides that day. So strategically it works really well. But you know, I think we were raised— like, you and I definitely were in the era of social media where it was like, document your life. Like, it was like, people were like, just document everything. When you get up in the morning, like, what's your routine? Where are you walking? What are you eating? What are you doing? Show us your workout. Show us how you work. Add value. Do this. What'd you learn? And I'm like, that's so great in a way, but also exhausting for me personally. And I see people do it, like, I see again influencers do it, and I'm like, I love it, like, what you're doing is amazing, but it's just not what business is and not what I want to do in this phase of my life. It's not where I want to be putting all my time. And so one thing that I always think is I want my content to make sense. I'm talking mostly in Instagram Stories right now, but I really want everything to link together for an outcome. So it's like if I do post 20 story slides, they actually all lead somewhere. So the first slide is opening the conversation, and then it's kind of taking the viewer on a journey to where I actually want them to go, what I want them to learn, the action that I'm hoping they'll take, whatever it might be. So it's not this like random sporadic, just post everything, which again in my mind used to feel so exhausting. Like I was like, I'm tired, like do I have to post everything? And my camera roll was like the most random stuff, whereas now it's like I'm strategically thinking, okay, well what am I promoting right now, or what am I wanting people to learn right now, or where am I wanting to add value right now? And so when I run a set of stories, there's actually links from each one to the next, and it makes sense as a whole, not just random stuff posted everywhere.

Yeah, so good. I find myself doing this a lot more lately of really, because the views are so much better when you post less on stories. I'm like, okay, if I have something coming up, I'll ghost my stories for like a day or two. Like, you know, purposely post nothing. And sometimes I have to like, you know, bite my tongue. Like there's something that I wanna share and then I'm like, nope, I'm doing a dry spell in the stories cuz I want those views to skyrocket. And then really thinking about what is the intention for, like you said, this set of story slides. Is there a CTA at the end? Is there a product that I'm promoting? Is there a DM automation that I really want people to engage with? You know, that's a, a new freebie. That I'm releasing, or it's something that I want people to grab, and really just making that curated set of like 1, 2, 3, 4, maybe 5, maybe 6. But that's kind of like it in terms of, like you said, drawing the link or like the thread through each one, which is really powerful. I mean, I think that's a really— that's a really hot tip in terms of personal brand in general. What do you believe are some of like the key elements of a successful personal brand?

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Like, the number one is just being you. Like, I see so many— I was actually speaking to one of my mastermind groups about this yesterday— I see so much influence in the industry where it's almost like, well, if you're a business coach, you have to be a certain way. And I love how unique and authentic you are to like when I look at your stuff, I'm like, yes, it's so Samantha, like you nail this. But you know, it's like maybe you think if I'm a business coach, I need to be in a power suit and have a photo shoot in a white studio. And if I'm a health coach, I need to be on a bike with kale in the basket. And if I'm, you know, like all these like very stereotypical things that we kind of see and we think we need to emulate or be, whereas I'm like, I hire coaches or I would hire to work with someone because I like them and their vibe. I'm not getting cookie cutter, I'm not getting one-size-fits-all coach. For me, and so I don't want to be that for other people. And so figuring out the things that are super unique to you, and just, you don't have to put on a show, do you know what I mean? Like, and I'm all about like the different hats we wear. Like, obviously, you know, business Ange is very different to mom Ange. I'm not like, you know, I'm, I'm dressed completely differently as a mom. I speak differently to my kids. It's like a different part of me comes out for that. But as I'm doing business, what feels exciting for me? What would I love to look at? Like, I often say, like, I look at my own Instagram page and my stories and my and I love it. Like, I'm obsessed with my aesthetic. I'm like, I love my photos, I love the photos I take, I love the Tezza edits I do. I'm like, I love what I share. I'm like, I want to be the coach that I would want to look for, you know, 5, 10 years ago personally. But that number one thing is really just, are you being you or are you being who you think you should be, either visually or also energetically? And so getting really clear on that. And then I speak a lot about about like this, you know, creating your own version of omnipresence in your brand so that you're not just recognizable when you're on the screen, but people know you for something. And hey, I have a really funny one that I always talk to my clients about where I get messages from people probably like once every week, sometimes every couple of weeks, about oysters. And it's, it's crazy. This girl one time, I had never had a message from her before in my life, and she sends me a reel that she's come passed, and it's this girl making cupcakes, but she's making little oysters out of the icing, like the fondant, I think you call it. And she's like sent it to me, and she goes, oh, this made me think of you. And I'm like, oh, I have oyster omnipresence. This is amazing. Because I speak a lot in my programs, like, you know, oysters are a big part of my story. I used to go out for lunch with girlfriends, and you know, they were all wealthy and could afford to get oysters and champagne. And I was like, I can't really do that. Like, I'm buying the salad. And I'm not getting the bougie stuff. And so a big part of my, like, success is that when I go out, I buy oysters. I buy myself a dozen oysters because I really like them. Like, they're very expensive for me and they're so yummy. And so I tell this story, and then in a lot of my social media, like, pictures, like, the background of, like, a story when I've got text on the screen might be oysters. And so I've created oyster omnipresence. Someone might create, you know, like, people always come to me and go, I love your blazers, or they'll see blazers and be like, oh my gosh, you would love this because I love a blazer.

You know, someone, it might be the city that they live in.

It might be their puppy dog, it might be something else, but it's like, find the things that— first of all, you're uniquely you, but also find the things that create that omnipresence so that people are thinking of you even when they're not with you, you know what I mean? And I think you do this really well as well. Like, I kind of like— I look at where you live and I feel like you do such good stories of like your home that I'm like, if I ever went there, I'd be like, well, I'm gonna go to Samantha and be like, where am I going? Like, where am I visiting, you know?

Yeah, I actually just did this with a friend. We did this exercise with each other. So for anyone listening, you can do this with someone that knows you and say, when you think of me, what are some things that come to mind? And that's how you can kind of get some ideas of what is already kind of creating omnipresence in your friends' and family's lives about you and your personality. I think, you know, this happened— used to happen for me all the time. It happens less frequently now because, you know, my work is a lot more in business and marketing and messaging. But it's even still like, it happens a lot where people will send me angel number things. Like, angel numbers was one of my like big omnipresence things. Like, anytime people would see them— and I think that came a lot from the podcast because we would talk a lot about them on the show, which was funny. I just got like a spontaneous tattoo the other day at a wealth event here in Miami, and I was like, what do you guys think I got? And so many people were like, an angel number. I'm like, still got it, still got that omnipresence for those angel numbers.

Absolutely.

But yeah, sit down with a friend and be like, what do you think of when you think of me? I just did this with, with one of my friends who also, you know, builds a personal brand online, and we came up with so many just like fun little random things that make us think of each other, whether it's like palm trees or matcha, or, you know, my dog, like a husky, Storm. I don't know, she came up with some things where she was like, that's just what I think of when I think of you. So yeah, do that with a friend. It can help a lot. I wanna talk about influence because we spoke a little bit about not posting like an influencer, unless obviously you're an influencer. But if you're someone who's building a brand to sell a product and you're a service-based entrepreneur, then you're not a lifestyle influencer. But there's still this piece of influence that's really important to build a movement, right? Creating like a community and really building that brand as we're speaking about. So from your perspective, where do you feel like influence comes from? Like becoming a woman of influence without being an influencer, what does that look like to you?

Like I always say, the influence I care about is influencing the numbers that I want to move in my business. I'm like, I don't really care about being an influencer, so to speak, like you said. That's not what I want to do. But I care about influencing what's important in my business and in other people's lives. And so I look at influences, like how to build it when it comes to your audience positioning you as an authority, is first and foremost, like, I know everyone says it, but just full embodiment. Energetically, I can feel— I feel like everyone can feel when someone's not fully authentic in sharing their truth and being fully embodied in their work and really living and walking their talk. I feel like it comes across, you know. And like, even like, I'll sometimes, you know, if I'm like having a bad day and I'm like, I just got to get a post out, and I post it, never responds. Like, people never respond to it well because the energy behind it wasn't super clean, you know what I mean? It was just like, I'll just get it out because I have to. Whereas when I'm like, I feel so inspired and I want to share this, that's when my stuff really skyrockets, right? So I think first and foremost, like, the embodiment, you know, the self-leadership for me is such a big thing. Like, you know, whether or not— whatever type of business you're in, I think your influence comes from people seeing that you're truly doing what you're teaching, you know? Like, if you were a health coach, it's like you're actually eating the way you would encourage other people to eat. As a business coach, you're doing the things that you're telling them to do. As you know, if you're into spirituality or whatever it might be, it's like you're really walking your talk, I think, is the first thing that helps to move your influence forward. And then it's different types of content. So I look at my content as I've got authority content, which is showing people why they should trust me to teach them the things that I teach them, and why what I'm sharing is worth listening to, and, and the tips I'm giving are worth trying. Then there's growth content. So growth growth content is like, you know, the type of content where you know it's going to get you followers, you know it's going to get you views, it's still in alignment with what you do. It's not like following a trend. I always think people look at growth content and they're like, all right, well, there's this trend happening, I'm gonna do it even though it's not relevant to my business. You can take a trend and make it relevant to what you do, then that's like 10 out of 10, great move. But it's like taking that content that you know is growth content, it's going to get people looking at you going, okay, I want more of her. And then there's what I call the kind of nurture content, which is not not always as popular, not always what is going to have you build a following. It's not always going to get the most likes, but it's gaining trust with your audience that you really get it. Like, here, I'm going to teach you something, you're going to implement it straight away, you're going to get a result from implementing it. Like, enjoy. And sometimes one piece of content can like hold all three pillars, but I kind of look at those three as the key to really finding your influence. So knowing first and foremost that you're showing people why it is that you're someone that they should listen to, that you're growing your audience, because as coaches we need leads, we need people coming in wherever they come from and whatever number. Like, we want to get new eyes on what we're doing. And then the last one again is really showcasing, like, here's what I'm gonna do, here's me teaching you how you can do it and helping you have some wins. And it's kind of looking at that and then knowing how to influence different numbers, like the little tricks of, like, you know, going ghosting for, like, a day before you want to post something in your stories, or, like, knowing how to encourage more comments on your posts, or more saves, or more shares. Like, that kind of stuff all leads into your influence, in my opinion. But everything I teach is always starting from the mindset and the energy. So it's like knowing why you want to have influence, knowing what you're going to do with that influence, knowing how you're going to help people with that influence. If you can get really clear on that, in my mind, if your intention is good and if you're willing to put in the work, does come. Sometimes there's just a bit of patience that's needed. You know?

Yeah, so, so good having that, you know, embodied leadership, developing the right mindset before you go into things, and the energy behind what you're posting and why you're posting, and really understanding the different types of, you know, what a piece of content is going to do for you. I think that's key, cuz I even just had a conversation with a client recently where she was like, I posted this like talking video and I thought it was really good, but it didn't perform as well. And I'm like, well, what does that mean, didn't perform as well, right? Cuz I also post I posted a talking reel recently where I knew, I knew before I posted it, this is gonna flop in terms of views. It's not like a viral view type video, but what it did really well was it encouraged a lot of, you know, the conversions to a ManyChat automation and that converted to sales. So it was more like a nurture, what you call a nurture style piece of content. And so you have to understand that also so that you're not getting discouraged that every single thing that you post isn't getting, you know, a ton of views. I feel like it's— people sometimes get really messed up with like what metrics they're looking at. And like you said, caring about influencing the numbers in your business and understanding that sometimes getting the most views on something isn't the thing that's actually going to make you the most money.

I always— I call them the vanity metrics. I'm like, we don't need to look at vanity metrics. We don't need to look at like the numbers that don't matter. Like depending on what you want to post to do, like sometimes views aren't important. Sometimes it is the comments to the ManyChat sequence. Sometimes it's the shares. Sometimes it's, you know, it could be anything. It's people getting into your DMs. Sometimes it's just building trust and sharing something that you know is connecting you deeper with your audience. And I'm like, that's what's important. Whereas a lot of people, they just go, well, I just need to get good views, I just need lots of real views, or I need lots of followers. And I'm like, oh, you can have 2,000 followers, you know, 200 followers, and still have a thriving business if you're doing the right stuff with those followers, you know, and the right stuff with your page.

Yeah. And I think something that I always remind my clients of is like, you want a bunch of the wrong followers anyway, cuz it messes up your algorithm. They're not the people that are gonna buy from you, so you don't want them anyway. You'd rather have a smaller audience that is more well-curated of people that are actually invested. They're actually interested. They're thinking about working with you at some point. They love what you teach. They love learning from you. They watch your stories every day. Like, you would rather have that.

Trust me, 100%. I'm like, I'd rather, like, if you gave me 100,000 people, just numbers versus 1,000 of my dream client, I'm taking the 1,000 every day of the week.

Every day. I think it's like 10 or 15% of my audience is male, and I'm like, I need to find a way to get rid of all of them. Like, I wish that I had the patience to go through and like find all the men and get rid of them. Obviously love men.

Men are great, but they're not my client.

They're not going to buy from me. So I'm like, why are you here? Please exit stage left. You don't want people that aren't really there for what you do anyways.

100%.

Okay, so something that you do well and that I wanted to pick your brain about is this, this idea of like Curiosity, because building curiosity, I think, is an art and it's an art form. And of course, it's one of the number one ways to generate more attention, more engagement, and ultimately then more sales. And this idea of like not giving everything away all at once, or, you know, right up front, not oversharing in your content. People are just kind of like stating what it is without having like a hook or 2 to 3 hooks to grab the attention first and then share what it is. We wanna leave something to be desired, right? With everything, with podcast titles, with email subject lines, with the hooks in our content, with how we start our videos to keep people wondering like, what is she up to? What is she gonna do next? What is coming? What is this thing? Ooh, something. What is she gonna say? I wanna know what the solution to that thing is that she just shared. So how do you generate curiosity and intrigue? Because it It is an art form.

The last like 8 years online of just the habit. And you know what it was? It was when we were in network marketing, it was so like— when I started, it was so like taboo to mention your product. Like it was almost like, well, you just want to make sure that people want what you have to offer, and then you tell them once they've asked you questions about it, which I don't love. Like I'm like, now looking back, I'm like, it was kind of secretive.

That's what I call covert selling. I like to have a mix of the COVID and the overt, but it was— you're right, network marketing I remember that too. It was very covert. It was very sneaky.

Yeah. And so a part of me was like, yeah, again, I always felt a bit like, I don't know, I don't know if we want to be like so— like, I got to a point, especially in the later phase of my network marketing journey, where I was like, no, no, no, no more of this. But also, I create my own hype. And so I like— while yes, it's curiosity, for me it's more when I'm creating something, when I'm releasing something, I'm genuinely so excited about it. Like, I look at what I create, and I always create from the lens of like, okay, if I was in this position where my dream client is right now, what would I really need? And so I'm always creating from that space. What would they need? And so when I've, you know, got something to give people, I just get excited about it. And so it's like, I don't want to give it away straight away because maybe it's not finished, or maybe I'm like working on it. But more than anything, the curiosity is really just me being such a hype girl for myself and my own content. And like, I can't wait for people to see this and all of the things. But also from a place of like, not everyone wants to buy from me right now, which I get. Like, for some people, you know, they might come into my world now, but they might not actually decide to become a client for 3 months, 6 months, a year, 3 years maybe. God forbid, please don't wait that long. But, you know, for some of them, it's like they're not ready yet. They're here to just take on some info, to, to gain a bit of trust with me, all of the things. And so I don't want to be like a walking sales page on my Instagram, if that makes sense. Like, if someone wants the info, obviously go to a sales page. It's got everything you need to know. But one thing I think of is I don't want constantly be like bombarding people with buy, buy, buy. And here's the thing, I want to have people who are interested come in and I'll help them figure out where they want to go. And then the people who are there just like enjoying my free content and enjoying what I have to teach, they're not constantly being given the sales page, if that makes sense. And so sometimes like I'll see, you know, people will post almost too much information about their offering, and in my mind I'm like, I would actually rather have— again, depending on the offering— I would rather have the conversation with my client to make sure that they're being placed in the right program that I have, or the right type of support that I can give them, so that it's not just like a transaction but it's a relationship. And then again, there are some, you know, smaller programs where I will kind of post the sales page. Like, it's like recently my social media growth program, I was like, right, I'm just going to post all the info because it's a smaller micro offering. It doesn't need a full-on conversation. Like, you either know that you want to grow your influence or you don't. And so there I will. But when it comes to the larger offerings, it's like the curiosity almost gives me an opportunity community, to have a relationship with my followers, with my audience, so that I can actually put them in the right place, if that makes sense.

Yeah. And I think it also— what you, what you spoke about in terms of like you'd rather start a conversation with someone who might be interested in working with you and kind of guide them to the best place rather than sharing the entire, all the information from the sales page on your Instagram stories, speaks to, you know, this idea that we hear often about selling the outcome instead of selling the features. And I think that is sometimes what is fatiguing, to your point of like seeing it all the time, where it's like, you know, this many calls, this many months, this many trainings, this many things, and it's like all the features, the features, the features, where someone really just wants to be inspired at the idea of what the outcome is. And then can you build curiosity and intrigue so that I want to ask a question about it, and then we can have a conversation, and then you can help me and be like, yeah, I actually think this would be really great for you, or hold the thought on that because I actually think this other thing over here is better suited for where at and what you're looking for. And it also, like you said, helps build relationships. So I'm a fan of that. This is what I call raising your hand and getting more people in your audience to raise their hand that they might be interested in something without just vomiting all the information on them and then, you know, trusting that they're going to make a sales decision in that moment. And actually just giving them a fun opportunity to raise their hand and say, ooh, like, this feels kind of nice for me, this could be something that I'm interested in. And then we start a conversation.

Yeah. And, you know, again, everyone learns in different ways and everyone absorbs information in different ways. And so it's kind of like if you're always giving your your audience the information in one way. I was talking to my clients the other day about this, of like, I skim over a sales page. Like, I just, I look at the stuff that's in bold, and I look at the testimonials, and I look at the results that can come from it. And that's me. Whereas there are some people who like go through every line and want all the information. So it's kind of like, you want to make sure you're giving people information in a way that they absorb it, and not just always giving it to them in a way that you like to absorb it, if if that makes sense.

Yeah, you know, I think having variety in the way that you present the information is, is key too. Even just like, you know, I think we all used to do these like preset Canva slides for like the offers that we had, and I still have them for a lot of my offers, and we'll sprinkle them in here and there because I think it's good to have them from time to time. But it's definitely been such an evolution from where everyone was always just posting like, here's the title of the offer, here's what's included, here's the features, how many calls, whatever, the, the pricing. It was just like the whole sales page, like you said, into these set Canva slides, and then they would post them over and over and over and over again. And the variety is key to our point of building curiosity, because when you've seen something multiple times, you check out. So if I've seen those same slides, my brain recognizes it and I don't pause to read it, I just swipe on by. Exactly. Tap tap tap tap tap, see you later. So it's really good tips on building the curiosity and not giving everything away. And I think it applies to even just things like if you're going to do a live video, like building curiosity at the start of like what the topic is and what the value is that you're going to bring without just like blurting out the answers right away. Your content, stories, like all the things, it applies in all those areas.

It's such an art to lives. Like, I'm like, I used— I look back at my old lives. Oh my gosh, Samantha. Like, I would sit there and be like, hey guys, let me know where you're coming in from. And I would like sit there for like 3 minutes. I'm gonna wait for you to jump on. Oh my Hi, hey Katie. And I, well, I'm like, I'm mortified looking back at some of my old lives. And I'm like, no one told me. Why did no one tell me that this is so painful to sit and be like, and get to the point, and what are you talking about? Like, we're not here to watch you welcome everyone in. Calm down.

It's so funny too, because when you think about it, it's like, if you look at this, the statistics, I mean, most people are going to watch it as a replayed piece of content. The majority of people that see it are going to see it as a replay. They're not going to see it live. So there will be some people on live with you, but you're really creating a video for the replay. So I always tell people, start a live video and act like it's a reel. Act like it's a piece, a short form piece of content.

Get the hook first thing you say.

Yep. You gotta have your hook ready. Know what your intro is gonna be. Give them a reason to keep watching because that live video is also gonna pause after 15 seconds, 30 seconds, and they're gonna have to hit keep watching. So if you haven't given them a reason to keep watching at that point, you're kind of screwed. If all you've been doing is sitting there saying, okay, I'm gonna wait for some people to come on. On, I'm like, I don't even know what this is about. Like, why would I hang out? So yeah, you're right, there is an art for sure to live videos. The last thing that I want to touch on with you is this idea of feeling cringy online, because you posted something saying that being cringe made me 7 figures. So let's unpack it and hopefully inspire some more women to really not give a fuck and just be so themselves online. Like, how can we reek of authenticity?

There's no better way to say this, and I'm sorry if anyone doesn't like swear words, but You have to not give a fuck what people think. Like, I have people that I'm sure they look at my shit and they're just like, oh my God, cringe. I had my 20-year high school reunion and I was like, I wonder who follows me and who actually knows like what I do online. Like, is this, is this mortifying? Is it okay? Like, I was like, how bad is it gonna be? And I'm sure there are people, like I have family members who will straight up say it, like, I don't know what you do. I have this ex-boyfriend and he's so funny. We still chat online and he's like, I don't know what you do, but every time you post a reel, I want to make 30 grand. And he's like uber cool, like coolest guy, hangs out with celebs, like super famous photographer now. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like kind of cringe and mortifying. Like, you're such a cool human and I'm like dancing on reels and talking about how much money I make. Like, it is cringe, it's cringe, I get it. But I'm also like, no one else's opinion is paying my bills and my kids' dance lessons and for this life that I live. And if being cringe and putting myself out there is first and foremost going to help my business, then I'm going to do it. But secondly, it's going to let other people just stop giving a shit what everyone else thinks of them. Uncle Bob with his opinion on your small business, like, trust me, I've been through it all. When I started health coaching, I remember a family member was so mean that when I went over for dinner, she made everyone homemade pizzas and she was like, I didn't make any for you because it's not organic and I know you only eat organic. And I was like— and then like, oh, you won't drink our water because it's tap water. And I was like, it's fine, I bought my own. But like, it was so like— I'm aware that there are people who are like talking about me behind my back and all those things, but I'm also like, I don't know, are you living the life that I want to live? Like, are you happy in your relationship, or are you thriving in your business? Like I always say, I'm never taking advice from anyone who isn't living the life I want to live. And any successful business owner would look at what I'm doing and they'd be like, fuck yeah, go girl, for giving it a go. Like, go you for trying new things. Go you for putting yourself out there. Go you for, you know, failing and all of the things. Whereas the people who are like, ew, what's she doing? I'm like, what are you doing? Like, how's your life? I don't know. Like, are you good? Like, emotionally, mentally, spiritually? Maybe you are, but I don't want to be you because I wouldn't want to be a person that judges.

Yeah, if you're leaving hate comments or even judging silently, it's still— that's the energy that I don't have to to give in this world. It always kind of perplexes me of how people have the, have the time to even care enough to worry about what you're doing to support your family and, and build a life. And you're obviously happy and thriving. So like, anybody that is going to judge you too is like, do you want that kind of person in your audience? Or would you rather post something that makes them go, I'm gonna unfollow? Great, I was trying to find you and get you out of here.

Yeah, thank you for doing it for me. I'm like, what? When people announce that they're going to unfollow, I'm like, why? Like, what was the point? I don't understand.

Why are you announcing that you're leaving? Please Like, I'm not sad.

This is my house. You can leave.

I'm really actually positively joyful that you will be exiting.

But you know, it's like, you really gotta think, like, life is so short. Like, not to be morbid, I have this conversation with a lot of my loved ones, but like, when we could go tomorrow, we could die tomorrow, like, this could be it for us. And I'm like, I don't know, like, it's so short. I'm a speck of dust in the universe. I really don't matter that much. Like, what I'm doing, if it is cringe, if someone's offended by it, if someone has a problem with it, if it's a family member, a friend, or a stranger, like, I don't really care. It could all be over tomorrow. I'm going to have fun and I'm going to make a whole lot of money doing it. And if someone wants to judge me, it's fine. We're all leaving the same way at some point in life, so let's just have a good time and make lots of money.

Yeah, I mean, the prize is just enjoying the journey, right? So as long as you're having a good time and you're living in abundance and it allows you to be able to do great things for you, for your family, for your kids, like, no one else's opinion should, should really matter. So cheers to that, to, uh, being ourselves, to reeking of authenticity, to being being fucking cringe, because like we're all a little cringe. It's fine. I do cringe things on the internet on a regular basis. Some of the stuff that I've shared on the podcast— cringe.

I never look at you and think you're cringe. I'm like, you make it cool. Like, I'm like, if I was dancing, like if I tried to dance like how you— like, you like dance and you do it really well. And I'm like, I feel like if I did that, I'd look like a weirdo. Like, I have no— like, I'm very white. I can't— I have no moves.

That's something interesting because it's like, it's actually not authentic to you, so that's why it would be weird. But it is authentic to me, like it's so my personality. I'm never not dancing. Like, I've grown up dancing my whole life. It's such a part of my personality, of my natural expression. And so there's that, you know, it's like if it is natural to you, then it'll come across that way. But if you're trying to just put it on because it's what other people are doing, then to your point, like you said earlier, if you're trying to fit yourself into a box or doing something just because it's a trend or because you think it's what a health coach looks like or whatever, people are going to be able to feel that.

100%. Yeah, I'm not dancing, nor am I singing. I would lose a lot of followers if I did either of those things. And again, not authentic to me.

I think I would lose a lot of followers if I started singing. You guys do not want to hear that.

Definitely offend some people on my end.

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Ange. This is such a good conversation. It's— I feel like this could be like a training. This is going to be really, really valuable for so many people. I'm like, um, should we put this in top tier. So many tips, such epic advice. Please let everyone know where they can follow you and find you. You're such a gem and, uh, you do amazing work.

Thank you. Just come to The Gratitude Project. I don't know why it's still my username, I can't change it, but it's @gratitude_project, or just look up Ange— A-N-G-E— Simpson. Everyone spells my last name wrong. There is no P in my last name, just so you'll know. Yeah, come find me there, or Google The The Graduate Project, I'm on there as well. And yeah, come and chat. I'm always in my inbox and talking to people and answering questions and here to just add value and serve however I can. But thank you for having me on here, and now I get to hear myself on one of my favorite podcasts, which is like the coolest thing ever.

Yes, I love it. We'll link everything in the show notes for you guys that you can follow. And if you loved this episode, if you have a fellow, uh, creator friend, entrepreneur, someone who's building personal brand and it made you think of them, then copy this link, send it to them, and let them know you were thinking of them. We love you guys so much. If you screenshot this episode and share it to your stories, make sure that you tag both Ang and I so that we can connect with you and talk to you in the DMs. And, uh, we'll talk to you guys next week. Bye!