Entering Your Soft CEO Era & Creating Sustainable Success w/ Tiffany Napper

What's up guys, welcome back to the podcast. Today I am chatting with a super special guest, Miss Tiffany Napper. Tiffany is a Nashville-based holistic business coach who transforms overwhelmed creative entrepreneurs into thriving CEOs. A former music industry powerhouse orchestrating campaigns for Elton John, Alicia Keys, and Disney, Tiffany embraced her entrepreneurial calling in 2011. She went on to launch her own PR and branding agency, propelling global superstars and emerging artists to new heights. Over the last 13 years, she has launched and led 5 self-funded 6-figure ventures, from a stadium-approved handbag line to a dynamic PR and branding agency. Now Tiffany wears her business coach crown with great pride, helping women reach 6- and 7-figure success without the burnout. In addition to being a standout serial entrepreneur and skilled keynote speaker, Tiffany is also one of my lovely one-on-one clients who's been working with me for just over a year now, and she's also one of the sweetest, most genuine people you you will ever meet. In this conversation, she shares so much wisdom and insight from her variety of ventures and lessons that she's learned with over a decade under her belt as an entrepreneur who wears all of the hats. We also talk about her personal journey growing up in a household where her mom was the entrepreneurial breadwinner, and the dynamic between her parents when her dad actually started working for her mom. How she met a guy and got married within 4 months to only then find herself swiftly divorced and alone in France. The aftermath of being in a relationship with a manipulative narcissist. How broke through the corporate income cap, her many pivots in business, and the practices that helped her heal, grow, and redirect. Why she is so passionate about teaching women how to be in their soft CEO era. Yes, I learned this term from Tiffany. And we also get really real on what it actually takes to make it in this industry versus the marketing ploys that we see so often being thrown around that are just BS. This is such a dynamic, holistic conversation for all the girlies who are aspiring to rise in entrepreneurship or their careers while staying soft and being anchored in their feminine power. You're gonna love it. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shift happen. Welcome to the show, Tiffany. I'm so excited that you're here. You are a business coach, you are a 5-time entrepreneur, and you also have some really cool life experience and some subtle flexes like having worked with celebrities like John Legend and Elton John in your PR days. So I know that your experience in business and entrepreneurship spans far and wide. So there's gonna be so many opportunities for us to cover a lot of ground today, which I'm excited about. But you are also a client of mine. You're a friend of mine at this point. We've worked together for a while, so I'm just really excited to feature you. And also, like I said before, unpack more of your story cuz I know some bits and pieces, but like we haven't actually sat down and done a full-on like tell me your life sort of thing. So I'm like, oh, this is, this is gonna be fun.

Oh, let's do it. I'm like an onion. Here we go.

A lot of layers, people. There's a lot of layers. Yes. Okay, so before we like go back and kind of like retrace steps, how would you describe the work that you do now and kind of like your passion, purpose, position in the world as, as it is today?

Yeah, absolutely. That's easy for me now to say. So I help women make six figures and beyond, and I help them do it with more joy and more ease. And that's what I do at the end of it all. Whether you're brand new, starting out, um, you know, trying to get to six figures, whether you're at six figures, multi-six figures, whether you're scaling to seven figures, I come in and help you just make that journey feel more fun every step of the way and ensure that you're able to do it without losing sight of your health and your well-being.

Yeah, which is so important, and we'll talk about it.

Yeah, we'll talk, we'll talk about why that matters.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I'm excited to like unpack that and your whole story of like the catalyst of all that, for sure. So, uh, before you were an entrepreneur, you worked in PR. Tell me a little bit about like that time of your life and what you were doing, where you were living, like what that sort of era was like for you.

Yeah, I was coming out of being an editor for a paper as a journalist, and I had heard rumor on the street was that you could make more money on the other side of the, of the fence, which was PR. So I was like, okay, well, I'm burnt out, I'm exhausted. I've been running this weekly paper as a party of one, uh, for Gannett, which is like one of the largest publishing companies in the US. And I was so burnt out, uh, and I was like, I'm gonna go try my hand at PR. And so I got my first job as a publicist with the American Cancer Society, which was really such a blessing because I was able to go right into a system, if you will. Like, you know, it wasn't like a startup. It was— there was a system behind how to be a good publicist. And I really excelled in that role because I had just come from being an editor and a journalist, so I knew what they wanted to hear and how it all worked. And yeah, and then about 3 years after that, I moved into the music industry and started doing PR in the music industry.

And that's where you met John Legend and Elton John.

That's where John Legend stripped down to his underwear in front of me. Yes.

Okay, so you have to give more context than that. You can't just like leave it at that.

Yeah, without— okay, so I went into PR with, uh, Yamaha, the music manufacturer, and that was such a beautiful season of my life. I was actually with them for 10 years total, 3 years in-house, 7 years as a contractor, like when I went out and started my own business. But in that role, I really— we were going through a lot of transitions, and the world was going through a lot of transitions from a marketing PR social media perspective. So Facebook was like really the, the main, uh, platform on the street. I realized we should probably be using Facebook to tell our story, and so they let me start the Facebook account for Yamaha. I started an Instagram account for Yamaha and quickly grew that to like 100,000— it was called likes back then. Anyway, through that whole process, I was, I was able to kind of stretch my wings in different ways. So I was doing social media aside from PR, and then I started wearing the hat of creative director, and we had a magazine we produced, and obviously I had a magazine background, journalism background, and so I would travel around the world and interview our artists and organize our photo shoots for that magazine. We featured 10 artists per issue twice a year, so that was 20 times I was on a plane traveling around setting up photo shoots every year. And one year our cover artist was the Mr. John Legend. And, um, yeah, we were just in a studio in New York City, and, and because I was, you know, creative director, not only was I finding the photographer, hiring the videographer, finding the space I would also— they would often ask me what they should wear. And so we're standing there and he's, you know, we're putting— hanging his clothes up on a little rod that he had brought for the photoshoot. And, and I was like, oh, I think this and this. And he just starts getting dressed. And I was like, okay, I think I'm going to go over here. But he was, he was a doll about it. Obviously, he, you know, it was, it was innocent, but it was funny.

You were also in control of like what, what they should wear. So what happened after that? Did you, did you tell them? You were like, I'm gonna take this opportunity for this to be like a strip down?

No, no, no. All I did was, you know, I pointed out to him, I was like, I think we should probably start in this, this shirt and these pants. And he just, he was just took that upon himself to start getting undressed and redressed. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna go over there now. It was very innocent, but also I was just like, oh my gosh, John Legend just got down into his underwear in front of me. That's a thing that happened.

Oh my God. Okay, so you didn't— he didn't get, uh, like the shoot wasn't like an underwear shoot. It was just he was super comfortable in that environment to just be like, all right, I'm just gonna get changed. I'm sure he's gotten changed in front of a million people.

I'm sure he's— exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Oh my God. Okay, so, and did you— when did you stop loving that? Like, when did that— when did that become like a thing where you were like, I can't, or I don't want to do this anymore?

Uh, that's such a complicated answer. I didn't ever fall out of love with what I was doing. I still, to this day, if they, you know, if somebody was like, hey, come be our creative director, I love that role. I really thrive in that role. I'm really always been good at making decisions quickly on the spot and making people feel at ease. And those are the two skill sets I say are kind of essential for creative directors. But I I had a history, and at this point I was probably, I don't know, 30 years old, and I had a history of being an overachiever and didn't know the term burnout yet at the time, but just kept finding myself in these positions where I'd given it my all, I'd given it my all, and then I'm like, and now what? Like, there's nowhere for me to go. I've hit a ceiling. I asked for a promotion or a raise, I get denied. There's like, there's nowhere for me to go in these like small little containers that I would find myself in. I was always in like a unique it's very me. I'm an Enneagram 4. I was always in this like unique situation. It wasn't like this common huge organization where there was a lot of room for growth. I would be in this small little division of this huge organization where there wasn't any more room for growth unless I took over my boss's position. So it wasn't that I fell out of love. It was really that I overworked myself and I was doing too much. And so I started to build up probably some resentment towards the situation and just also hit a ceiling where I was like, well, there's nowhere for me to go now. So now what? So at that point in time, I think because it had happened multiple times in a row at that point, I was like, you know what, maybe I need to go do my own thing.

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Yeah, it happened pretty quickly. And what I didn't know at the time is that I, I grew up around entrepreneurs, my mom and my dad, and I, I didn't really think of it at the time, but in hindsight, 2020, I realized that That's probably why I wasn't really very afraid of what I was doing. I didn't have any worries. I wasn't like, oh my God, what if this doesn't work? Those thoughts, honest to God, never crossed my mind, for better or for worse, right? Like ignorant bliss, whatever you want to call it. But I also had already been hired for some little side gigs and, well, one was a big side gig. I had been hired to be the unit publicist for a blockbuster movie that was filming in New Orleans at the time, which is where I lived. So I did that on the side my last month or so of working in-house for Yamaha, just just to dip my toe in the water and see what it was like. And also the pay was ridiculous, and I was like, wait, what? You're gonna pay me what for 3 months? What? So I was already doing that, and then simultaneously, I think because I had put myself out there, I started getting all these nods like, hey, I'd hire you, hey, I'd hire you, hey, I want you to be my publicist, from other creatives, musicians, artists, etc. So I really wasn't afraid. By the time I made the public announcement that I was starting my own agency, it was January of 2011, and I already had a couple of clients lined up. And some of my clients were people from Yamaha. Like, they would call Yamaha and ask, "Where's Tiffany?" And then my old colleagues at Yamaha would say, "Oh, she's doing her own thing. Here's her info." And they would call me and they would hire me to be their publicist or to run their social media. So Grandmaster Flash was one of my first clients who came from my relationship at Yamaha. Mark Cohn was one of my first and longest clients who came from my relationship at Yamaha, et cetera. So I wasn't afraid because I had built up enough of a reputation and I knew what I was capable of. And I also obviously had seen, even if I didn't realize it, I had seen what entrepreneurship looks like from my parents.

Yeah, that's an interesting part of the story too, is that both of your parents were entrepreneurs. Do you feel like as a kid you looked at the idea of like having your own business as something like totally normal?

No, I was embarrassed as a child that my dad didn't have a J-O-B. Like, I thought, does that mean he's not capable of getting a job? Like, what does that mean that he runs his own business? And, you know, again, that's my full transparent answer. I just, as a kid, I didn't see that. That wasn't common at all. He ended up going in and working for a company for many, many decades. And then fast forward, and it wasn't until my mom was in her 40s that she went out on her own, started her own business, much to my dad's dismay. He actually wasn't a fan of the idea, but she put the numbers out in front of him and she was like, this is what I want to do, and I think it's going to work. And so he was like, okay, let's give it a go. And so she did it. It was so successful that just a few years in, my dad said, okay, I'm gonna quit my job and come work for you. And for about 10 years they ran that company together before they retired in their 50s and sold the business. So I didn't have that viewpoint of it quite yet when I was in my 30s and starting my own, my own business. I didn't really know yet the other side of the story for them, but I had seen it, you know?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Did you feel like from witnessing your dad first and then maybe later your mom, but like we know now as entrepreneurs that there's a lot of emotional whiplash is like what I call it. Do you feel like looking— maybe you didn't notice it at the time, but like looking back, do you feel like you kind of remember that? Because it's, it's hard being an entrepreneur.

It's hard.

It is, it is challenging. So I'm just curious what your perspective of was having two parents that were entrepreneurial, did you see that emotional whiplash? Did you see the ups and downs? Were they working all the time? Like, what did that look like?

Yeah, I didn't— I don't think I ever really saw the ups and downs per se that I can really put my finger on and remember vividly. But obviously I do very vividly remember the working late into the night. And I remember at one point in time, you know, I'd go into my parents' bedroom and they would be still 8 o'clock at night with spreadsheets in front of them, you know, talking through numbers. And I do also remember at one point in time where they made a mutual decision to not talk about business after 7 PM. And that just was like a new rule in the house. We don't talk about business after 7 PM, which in hindsight, even 7 PM was probably a little too late. But you know, it was progress of them not work— talking about work all the time. So I had definitely witnessed that. I don't, I don't really remember hearing— I mean, obviously I was privy to it. I knew when they were going through trying times, like I would see the stress on my mom's face especially. But their business was so different from what I ever thought of myself as, as doing, and I'm not sure I really put two and two together to be, uh, enough aware of like, hey, make sure you don't fall down that rabbit hole.

Yeah. I'm curious, there's a, there's a common theme, especially in our space that we're both in now, of, you know, the, the coaching space, business coaching especially. There is a common theme of a lot of women building these incredibly successful businesses and then their partners or husbands leaving their work and kind of coming on board, exactly as what it sounds like happened with your parents. So that's interesting because that was obviously a totally different time and era, and as you're mentioning, a totally different business. But I'm curious to know, just from your perspective, seeing that from your parents and then also seeing it now in the business coaching space, like, for you, like, would you ever want a partner to like work for you or with you? Did you feel like that impacted your parents' relationship? Like, I'm just curious, like, personal opinions on that sort of trend.

Yeah, my personal opinion is absolutely not. I do not want— I do not— I do not want my partner to work for me necessarily. Like, if I had a partner who it made sense for us to join forces because he brought something to the table that I didn't, and maybe. But honestly, I'm not— I don't come from the mindset that I want to be the provider for my partner. I would— I would love instead for us to be able to be individuals on our own and seek fulfillment on our own. And honestly, I really do want to not have to be in my masculine energy all the time. I've lived in it for most of my life as a now single woman, still at the age of 44. I've had to provide for myself all this time. So the idea of like my partner, like, I'm gonna put you to work— no thank you, not interested in that. I'd really, I'd really hope that you're, you're good on your own two feet without me picking you up. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for everybody, and it worked really well for my mother and my father, but my mother and my father were very different human beings. And so So therefore it worked. And also my mom wasn't looking at my dad as needing to be like a 50% partner in that business. And my dad wasn't looking at it as he needed to be a 50% partner in that business. He knew he was stepping into a company that was under my mother's name. Like there was no pretending that it was him. I mean, it was Sissy's Flooring and More. It wasn't Steve's Flooring and More. So he, at that point in time, in their lives, he was okay with the idea of kind of retiring from his career and going and helping my mom. And, and it worked. He had, because he had such a different role in the company than what she was doing. He wasn't stepping in to be the CFO or the CMO or any of that. So it worked for them.

It was, it sounds like it was more of like an auxiliary, like I'll help where you need me because this is now our main source of income and I actually don't need to work. So it's just like extra for me to help you out.

Exactly. And it was like, what can I take off your plate that I would actually be good at doing? My dad was great project manager, um, my mom is great at sales. My mom is the people person. My dad is the introvert. It's where I get my introvertedness from, you know. And then it just— it worked. And, you know, for my dad, he would like joke like, I gotta ask the boss if I can take off to go fishing, you know. Like, that was their dynamic.

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I, I have similar sentence to you about the idea of like like, I, I don't think that I'm a fan of like my partner working for or with me. And I know that's like something that people dream of, and they're like, I'd love to— like a lot of women are like, my— that's on their vision board is like retire my husband. And I'm like, absolutely not. I feel the same as you, actually. If you, if you would have asked me 5 years ago, maybe I would have been like, yeah, that's so aspirational, that's— that would be amazing. But the further that I get in my own entrepreneurial journey, and you are like, you know, light years beyond me because you've been in this game since 2011, like, you start to realize how much it actually does take a toll on you as a feminine being, which we'll talk about when we get into like the soft CEO stuff. But it's just become abundantly clear to me that like, yeah, no, like, I do, and like, I actually don't want to be the provider. I have this, and I, I've communicated that to my partner like straight up, like, hey, like, yeah, I, my dream and vision and hope and wish and desire for us is that you will be able at some point to provide equal or more than what I'm doing so that I can actually chill, relax, slow down. Yes. Relax. I know. And you and I are like really aligned on that, at least in like this season of our lives where we're like, dude, some relaxation would be so nice.

I'll take it. And I, and I also, to be fair, you know, years ago was guilty of of that mindset. I was with someone who was really unhappy in his world and he made a lot of money, but he seemed really miserable. And I was like, "I'm going to build my coaching business up so much that he doesn't have to work." I never communicated that to him. I carried that burden internally on my own, took it to therapy on my own. And so now here I am 4 years later and I can recognize that actually wasn't healthy for me or for him or for the relationship. He wasn't asking me to do that. I didn't need to put that pressure on myself. And also, I don't even want that. I don't want to save anybody, right? So that's my two cents.

Hey, don't forget that every month we are picking a listener of the month to win $50 in cash just for showing love to the show. All you have to do is leave an epic review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, screenshot the review before you hit submit, and DM that screenshot to us on Instagram @makeshifthappen. MakeShift Happen podcast. And that's it. I want to thank you for being such a loyal listener and show my appreciation by putting a little extra cash in your pocket. I know it's super easy not to do it, but every single rating and review seriously helps the show rank higher and reach new people, so we appreciate them more than you know. We'll announce the next winner at the end of the month and slide into your DMs if it's you, so keep an eye out and good luck. Love you guys, and thanks for supporting MakeShift Happen. Yeah, okay. Well, I feel, I feel similarly to you, so that's interesting. Was that the— was that your marriage?

No, that was just a long 3-year relationship.

Okay, well, let's talk about the marriage because there— I know there's juice.

There's so much juice.

I know there's juice, and I'm sure that that relationship influenced even more the way that you view work and priorities and what's important. And so I'm interested in that. What I know is that from what you've described to me is that like there was a time period there that, that was kind of like a rock bottom period in your life, and that, that marriage was challenging and unhealthy and narcissistic. Um, and thankfully it it's something that you have moved well beyond at this point. But yeah, I think there's a lot of people that, uh, struggle and have challenges in relationships, and the more that we can share our stories, the more that we can help support other women. So to the extent that you're comfortable, I would love for you to share kind of about that period of your life.

Yeah, I'm an open book about it. And it's, it's interesting because, um, so this was many years ago, 2016 now, but when this— when I was coming on the other side of it, if you will, through my healing journey is when I started sharing openly on Instagram. And that's when I started building my Instagram following, so to speak, if you will, sharing this story and realizing that there's so many other people out there who relate to it in some form or fashion. So I do believe in the healing journey that comes from being open and honest and transparent about it. And also I'm very honest that if I was to write a book one day, I cannot write the book without this chapter. It doesn't— my life doesn't exist exist as it does today without that chapter of my life. So back it on up, I was running 4 businesses at one time. PR and branding agency. I had started a co-working space for creatives. I had a handbag line that made NFL-approved handbags, stadium-approved handbags. And I had a short-term Airbnb property. I was burning the candle at every end that a candle could possibly have, and I still felt very unfulfilled. I was like, why am I not happy? What's going on here? I have success. I'm on the— I'm on magazine covers. Like, I'm getting flown to New York to speak on panels for Square and like all this stuff, but why am I unhappy? And I thought, oh, It's gotta be because I don't have a relationship. I haven't found my great love and I'm going to dive in and I'm going to get really serious about finding my husband. And, uh, and I treated it like that. I was like, I'm gonna put my CEO hat on because when I'm a CEO, I make things happen. So I'm gonna put my CEO hat on. I'm going to treat the dating app like it's a business model, if you will, and I'm not going to stop until I'm successful. And unfortunately, uh, I didn't do enough R&D during that process because I fell in love very quickly with someone who was not at all who he thought he told me he was. And I didn't learn any of that until after we rushed to the altar and got married. So he was a very classic, high on the narcissistic personality disorder scale narcissist who used every trick in the book to kind of woo me. Um, all of it— love bombing, gaslighting, word salad, anything you've ever learned about narcissism times 10. That was my ex, Georges. He was also French, and he was also really looking for a green card. So I really got roped in. He tricked everyone. He tricked all my family. He tricked my dad. Like, we all— everybody bought in just like I bought in, that this was the great love of my life and that we were going to live happily happily ever after. It all came crumbling down really fast. Like a day after the wedding fast is when I started to see a different side of him. And so for what felt like eternity, but in reality was only about— we got married in March. We went to France to be in France together for the summer in May. And I had left him by June. So it all came crumbling down pretty fast. Yeah, it was really, really bad.

Wait, how long were you together before you got married?

Not long. Like, wait, we technically met for the first time in person in December, and then he was kind of in France for a couple of weeks, came back. I think we probably started like fully dating in January, and then literally like less than 2 months later we were married. Like maybe a month and a half later. Yeah, which also, if you do some research on narcissists, you'll learn that this is a strategy that they use because they can't hold up the facade for forever.

Exactly.

It's exhausting for them to pretend to love you, and they're keeping you away from everybody. Like, also classic narcissists, like, don't give you access to anybody. So they can only do that for so long, right, before maybe I would have been like, you know, actually, maybe I do want to talk to your ex-wife. Like, maybe I would like to, like, say hello to her when we drop— he had a kid— when we dropped the kid off, you know. Um, so anyway, it came crumbling down really fast. I didn't even learn what narcissism was until I had left him. I was still trying to piece together, like, what just happened. I felt like I was big fog because when you're constantly just kind of being mentally berated is basically what it was, you really start to lose sight of what's real, what's not real. And that's where I was. Thankfully, luckily, I'm a very strong individual and I'm a very self-aware individual. And so it didn't take me long to realize this is not right and I'm going to start asking questions and poking around. And it was when I started poking around that I finally spoke to his ex-wife and she said, "Oh, Tiffany, I'm so sorry. It's not going to work out. In France, we call Georges a narcissiste." And I was like, "Huh?" And I quickly Googled it and I quickly came up with all of the— all the pieces of the puzzle started to make sense. It all started to fall in line. I also around that time found out about how he had treated his ex-girlfriend before me and all of the pieces of the puzzle started to fall together. So I walked away from that and realized it wasn't actually that I was missing love in my life. It was really just that I had not been operating from a place of wholeness and completeness, and I had been, I had been ignoring my own needs for so, so long. I had been putting the business on top of everything for so, so long that I felt like a shell of myself. And I feel like this relationship just was my bottoming out moment of realizing, stop trying to put Band-Aids on things. You can't put a Band-Aid on this. This. You've got to do the inner work. You've got to slow down. And so that's what came on the other end of, of all of that drama.

Man, what a whirlwind. Oh my God. I have like a trillion questions. But what made you realize before you did the poking around? What made you realize, holy shit, I think I've married someone that has completely lied to me about the person that they actually are. Like, what was, what was going on? What were some of those signs that made you start to be like, I think that that this marriage is probably going to be over?

Um, well, everything. I mean, from the moment of learning he didn't actually own a house in the south of France— that was a lie— he didn't actually, um, have this like successful career as a filmmaker— that was a lie— he didn't actually have any money— that was a lie. The day after our wedding, had sent me a text message asking us to take this girl into the house that I didn't know, and, um, and his house at the time— this is gonna sound harsh, but please know I'm not using this term lightly— his house was a shack, okay? And it had— he had started to renovate it and it never finished. So it had dirt on the floors in the kitchen. I'm not making that up. It had exposed electrical wiring in the walls. It had one tiny little bathroom that barely had hot water. I had a house, a beautiful house in New Orleans, but I was kind of living in this house with him after we got married because I thought I thought we were gonna like be a family unit together. And he was like, "I want this girl to come live with us. She needs a place to live." And I was like, "Who is this girl?" And he was like, he texted me back and he was like, "It doesn't matter. The answer is yes. You need to say yes." And I was like, "She's moving in tomorrow." And I remember texting him back and being like, "I'm sorry, I didn't know I married a dictator." I'm like, "This is bad timing for me. We just got done having a whirlwind wedding. I'm jumping back into work. I've got a lot of deadlines on my plate. I just moved into this house. It's just not great timing for us to suddenly take in a stranger to live in our little 2-bedroom, 1-bathroom house that also is a bit of a liability because there's electrical wires hanging out and nails on the floor. What are we doing?" And I literally texted that to him like, "I didn't know I married a dictator." And he was like, "I know." like, just like, "Do the right thing." And I was like, "Who is this person? Like, you've never spoken to me like that before." So that's just like a— that was just the beginning of me starting to get a whiff of who he really was. And then it was just every day something to make me feel less than, something to— some sort of drama, some sort of stunt. I mean, the stories are— I joked afterwards that this could become a movie one day, like a movie script because you would think I'm making some of it up. But there was an episode with chickens, there was an episode with champagne, there were all these episodes that happened where I was just like, what is my life right now and who is this person? Um, and as women, we're very empathetic and we're, you know, we're like, we want to be— we hate drama, we hate conflict, we want to problem solve. But you realize after the fact that with narcissists, like, they'll never say they're sorry, they'll never take any, uh, you know, any credibility for thing. It's always your fault. It's you, it's you, it's you. And so I lived in that space for enough months that I remember when I— when, when shit finally hit the fan, I called my mom and she was like, you have cried every day since the wedding. There's not been a day that's gone by that you haven't called me crying. And that was the, that was the like epiphany moment for me where I realized oh, I'm actually living in a shitstorm and I've got to get out of this.

Yeah. And luckily you are someone that has that sort of like strong character and self-respect that you actually probably were not really the right victim for a narcissist. Um, because they, they tend to like, you know, prey on people that are very empathetic and people-pleasy, and maybe they have their own traumas, and so they're not really sure of like what, and they can accept, or it's not actually their fault, but they are willing to almost accept the blame that they keep trying to throw on them. And they, they start to get brainwashed into thinking, maybe it is me. Oh my gosh, like, I shouldn't have said that to him. I spun him out. I made him upset. It's my fault. But luckily you're not really that person. So you just kind of woke up and were like, it's over, buddy.

Yeah. I mean, he tried to do that to me, like, about everything. And he put me down in public so many times. And, you know, I left parties crying. I would go into the corner of parties crying. I walked down streets crying. Like, every scenario you can imagine, um, happened to me. So, but yeah, I am grateful that I have that bit of like strong personality because it could have been so much worse, I think, if I had stayed much longer.

Yeah. And you mentioned your— that was kind of a catalyst to your deeper healing journey of like learning how to actually fill the holes in your life that you felt were going to be solved by getting into a relationship or finding, you know, your great love. And I think part of that was when you went and became a yoga teacher, right? Was that part of the journey?

That was part of the journey, yeah. So I came back from France— well, I actually stayed in France for another 30 days by myself. I just like was like, I, I don't want to go home yet because I know as soon as I go home everybody's going to be like, how, you know, talking about the wedding and the— and everybody, you know, kind of hosting.

Okay, so, so you were living in France with him? That's where the shack shack was.

No, no, the shack was in New Orleans, but I was in France with him for the summer when I left him, when I was— when kind of like the champagne shit hit the fan and I was like, I'm out. Um, and so instead of like running back home to New Orleans and running back to my businesses, I knew at that moment that I was not ready for any of that. I knew I wasn't ready to see people on the streets and answer questions. I just knew I needed some time to process everything I'd just gone through. So stayed in France for an extra month. I flew home on July 4th. I'll never forget it. Watched fireworks from the sky and came back and I was like, "Okay, what am I going to do differently moving forward?" And at that point, all I did was I said to myself, "I'm going to get on my yoga mat every day. I'm going to get on my—" I remember starting it off with Yoga with Adriene. It was going to be like a 30-day challenge. I'm going to get on my yoga mat every day for 30 days. And that turned into a nearly 365-day challenge for myself. I just never stopped. Stopped. Every morning I would wake up and I would get on my yoga mat, even if it was just for 10 minutes. And so through that process, which sounds just like this— it's like sometimes it's just you need to take that one small thing and stay consistent for the next to reveal itself. So through that, I really started to kind of realize how much I'd put myself on the back burner and knew that I wanted to really amp up my healing journey. And so it was the next year that I enrolled in yoga teacher training, because what does an overachiever do when she realizes that she needs to put herself first? She doesn't just go to yoga, she becomes a yoga teacher. Um, and I, I did, I did. I moved temporary— I thought was going to be temporarily— back to Nashville, Tennessee, where I lived previously. Again, wanted to kind of get myself out of the world I had built in New Orleans and put myself in a new scenario and enroll in yoga teacher training, which was going to be a 3-month program. And then I was going to go back to New Orleans and didn't, you know, whatever. But through that process, what ended up happening was a lot of things I didn't see coming. I ended up closing the coworking space in New Orleans. I ended up about a year later closed my handbag line. I restructured my PR and branding agency and made it where all of my, uh, employees were remote contract employees and, or remote contractors technically speaking. Um, and just restructured everything so that I could have more freedom in my life and so that I just felt more ease in my life. Um, kept a lot of my long-term clients but also got rid of some smaller clients. And just a big giant shakeup basically to give myself back permission to just like be and have the freedom that I wanted. When I said I wanted to be an entrepreneur, it wasn't because I wanted to be working all the time. Right. And I remember my business coach at the time, he was like, so what are we going to do with this yoga teacher training certificate? And I was like, I don't know, Zach, but we're going to figure it out. Like, that's not what I'm here for. You know? Um, and it was the best decision I made. I just needed to get back in my body. Really, I needed to get back in my body and listen to what would bring me joy.

It's so interesting because my healing journey started exactly the same way, where I was like, whatever I'm doing right now just like isn't working, so I'm going to just roll out my yoga mat every day. And I hadn't practiced in like a long time, but I was living in Spain at the time and And I also did, uh, at one point a 30-day yoga challenge. It was with— it was with Rachel Braithen, Yoga Girl. But like, I'm like, I wonder how many people— like, Yoga with Adriene probably has received so many emails from people that are like, oh my God, my whole life changed, changed my life, literally, literally. But like, my thing was the exact same. I was like, I'm just gonna— I'm gonna stop going to the gym because I was really dealing with like body image stuff at the time. It's like, I'm gonna close down my gym membership and I'm just gonna do yoga every day. And like, I just need to like feel feel fucking better. Like, I, yeah, I hate this like weird mental space that I'm in of like berating myself and like not feeling good enough and like then stressing about it and then trying to control it and then not being able to and it explodes and whatever. So I did the same thing. And then I also did my yoga teacher training because I am also an overachiever who was like, hey, you know, this has really helped me, maybe I could make a business out of it.

That's what we do. So yeah. Yes. Yeah. As you do. Yeah. But it was, it was, it was huge for me and it was all— I don't think I would have— I know I would never have done that had I not gone through the rock bottom moment that I went through emotionally. Like I was already unhappy with the type of energy I was carrying around on a daily basis before I married George. I was definitely unhappy with the energy I was carrying around after. And what I mean by that is I was— I felt like I had a short fuse, and I'm a very easygoing person. Like, one of the things people say about me— in fact, someone said it about me yesterday on the phone, someone said it about me this morning over coffee— is that I have a very calm energy about me. So during that season of my life, I was not that. I was unrecognizable to myself in the mirror. And I remember my fuse felt so short. I remember I would be driving down the street in New Orleans, which is not a, like, metropolitan, busy, you know, area. It was like a two-lane street of, you know, St. Charles Avenue. And I would get road rage and I was like, who am I? Like, why am I so angry? What am I mad about? What's going on? Why does my temper feel so short? And so anyway, I just know that it was like I needed all of that to happen for me to get to the other side. Yeah. So I'm grateful for it in the weirdest way possible.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Wouldn't want to repeat it, but like, Grateful for where, where it's gotten you now. Yeah. Okay, so you do the yoga teacher training, you do the inner healing work. We say, you know, see you never to George. Um, and then literally, yeah, literally. Is, is that sort of like where— because at that time you're an entrepreneur but you're doing like PR stuff. So when do we like transition into coaching? And like, how did all, all of that start? Was that like the pandemic period? I know that was like a huge time for a lot of our like online businesses. A lot of coaches cropped up around that time. Yeah.

What was the catalyst to that? Yeah, so, uh, my very first business coach who I mentioned a second ago, Zach, and my second business coach is my now dear friend Kayleigh— both of them had said to me, you should be a business coach. And I was just like, absolutely not. Like, I'm an entrepreneur, I run these businesses, I'm a creative, right? I didn't really even know what that what the term meant. And keep in mind, like, we're talking about 2013, 2015. Like, it was not the industry that we know it as now, as of 2024. And so I also didn't have a lot of respect for the term. I didn't really— even though I was— I had hired Zach and I respected him, his term was technically business consultant, and I just didn't really know what that meant. And I also was running a very successful PR and branding agency, and I had been for almost, you know, 10 years. I finally closed it down after 10 years and had my biggest revenue goals met of all time for the last couple of years of that business with very high profit margins. Like, I didn't need a lot to run that agency. But 2020 happened, and I had already been feeling unfulfilled again with the PR agency. Yes, I had a lot more white space, and I was going to yoga, and things were great, and I kind of never left Nashville. I had got, you know, set up a new home here, and so I had a home in New Orleans and a home in Nashville, and life was good.. And I was like, this isn't it. Like, this is not my calling. And so I had spent about a year staying really curious, and I had tried like some influencer work, and I was like, no, that doesn't feel good. And I had started thinking about writing my book that I'll one day write and worked a little bit on that, and it just didn't feel like the right time and the right space for me. And was just kind of dabbling around in things for probably almost a year while simultaneously obviously like running my successful PR agency, but knowing that there was something else on the horizon for me, and I just needed to stay curious enough to figure figure out what it would be. And then, I went actually to a Reiki and breathwork session in January of 2020. And, she— the both of the women that I was with that day, it was like a twofold experience. It was a life coach, it was a breathwork, it was a Reiki. And, they all kept coming back to this vision of me dancing and smiling and laughing. And, there was this common thread around some educational components to it that I was just I was like, hmm, that's interesting. I don't know what that means. And then March of 2020 happened, and I was a founding member of a co-working space in Nashville. And the, uh, the founding, um, the founder of that company, she called me up and she was like, hey, we're gonna have to shut down the co-working space, and I'm trying to come up with some ways to keep the community engaged. Would you lead an online workshop? And I was like, uh, sure, but I don't really know that you want me to be teaching them about PR right now because this is not a good PR. Like, the media is only talking about I don't have the virus right now. So what do you want me to talk about? She's like, oh, I don't know. Just talk about what, you know, you've been in business for a long time. Just like share some business tips. And I picked up the nod. I was like, okay, here's, here it is. Like once again, this is the third time I'm being told to like step into this role. So I put together a presentation. I had a blast putting it together. I had a blast hosting it. Um, and immediately as soon as we like hit end on the Zoom, she called me up and she was like, I'm getting blown up. My text is getting blown phone up from people who were there, can you do it again? And I was like, yeah. And so I did it again. And then it started— I started getting the messages like, how do we work with you? Do you have a program? Can I hire you? And so I threw together a group coaching program like that. Like, I didn't overthink it. I had a blog already where I had been sharing my wellness journey. As I mentioned, I started, you know, using my Instagram account to share my narcissist recovery story. And I was also sharing my entire healing journey of matcha and yoga and smoothies and all the things. So I had a blog. Where I could like build a little landing page. And that's what I did. I just built a private landing page on that blog that had a little paragraph about the program and accepted payments through PayPal. And that was it. I was off to the races and I got 6 people in that first program and led that program for 6 weeks. And I've never looked back. I love it.

So weirdly similar, our like processes. So bizarre. Like, wait, I never realized how like parallel our journeys were. So crazy, because I also— yeah, in 2020, I— well, I actually did my beta round of my program in 2019, but it was like a similar thing. I like threw it together while I was also teaching at the same time, but I loved it. So I was just like loving every minute of building it out, and then I ran 7 women through it and for 12 weeks, and then I was like, okay, this is it. This is what— yeah, this is what I'm gonna do now. And it was— yeah, and, and the same thing, I had a blog. I was— there's a blog post about matcha smoothies, like all the things. So yeah, and I think that's like not totally unique to us because there's a lot of people that go on their own healing journey and, and it opens something up for them, and then they get those requests or that kind of like nudge in some way of like, hey, this is actually really valuable to people that don't know this yet or haven't been through this. Um, yeah, and then you're prompted to share. And I think that was a similar entry point for me into business because I didn't initially start as, you know, giving business advice. It was all right, personal development stuff and the inner work and, and the growth and the mindset and that. And then it naturally kind of happened where people like, hey, can you talk more about that? Can you teach me more about that? Like, how did you do that? And then I was like, okay, well, maybe, I guess, sure. Like, I guess, yeah, we'll, we'll do, we'll do business stuff now. So yeah, I, I love— I've loved kind of just seeing the, the parallels in our journey there. So I think a, a thread that's been woven through a lot of these experiences through your life, and even now that you're speaking on stages, and we've just kind of recently nailed down together for you of like what that like core message is that you want to be when you're speaking, and it makes a lot of sense because of all of these different experiences that you've gone through. But you talk a lot about being a soft CEO and that like feminine side of leadership and business. And I've shared with my audience, like this year I was really inspired to adopt that as well and kind of like go on my own soft CEO path of just, you know, having again burnt the candle at both ends and had some personal things happen at the end of last year where I was like, okay, I actually need to like chill a little bit. So I'd love for you to talk about— everybody, this is, this is Tiffany. She is this soft CEO queen. So whatever you've heard from me about like soft CEO, that's just my own personal experience. But I'm really excited for you to like take this even further for people of what it, what it really means and what some of those strategies are and why it's important to you now. Yeah, business, and to share it with women on stages. And in your work.

Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, I'm glad everything you just heard is the reason why I entered my soft CEO era last summer, because I, I naturally am inclined to just overcommit. It's just in my DNA. And so even though I learned all those lessons in 2015 and '16 and '17, I found myself in 2023 feeling that familiar kind like a poke on my shoulder that was like, do more, do more, launch the next thing, make more money, make more money. And I was like, wait a minute, I recognize that voice. And that didn't go well. You know, the last 5 times I listened to that calling, that actually wasn't— that message wasn't for me. And what does it look like if I put my fingers in my ears and I decide that that message is actually not for me? Because when I hear it, it's mostly coming from social media and it's a lot of times coming from these very impressive men who have built very impressive businesses. But what I've realized is that I don't operate the same way that some of them operate. And that's okay. That doesn't mean I have to accept defeat. It actually means I get to honor what I need and what I want. So it was around about that time where I was like, oh my God, I don't want to go down this path again. I've learned this lesson before. I refuse to learn it again. So what is it going to take for me to not do it? And again, y'all have maybe are picking up on a theme that I'm a bit of an extremist sometimes. So when I go to like kind of right the ship, sometimes I really really, you know, go in the other direction. So I said, okay, soft girl era is trending on TikTok. I'm going to enter my soft CEO era and I'm going to start saying no to all these things that I'm getting asked to do that aren't actually in alignment with what I need to be doing right now based on my goals and based on what I'm— the load I'm currently carrying. And I'm going to really start to honor rest in a way that maybe I haven't done as well as I'd like to be doing the last, you know, 2 years. Years. And, and it honestly, it was a lot of just saying no to things. And it became like a, a funny meme in my group chat with my other, uh, entrepreneurial friends in Nashville. Anytime someone would be like, are you coming to this event? They'd be like, well, we know Tiffany's a no. And I was like, look, I love y'all, and when I'm out of this season and I'm feeling rested and replenished, I will be there for you. But right now I got to put me first and I got to put my clients first. And that means I've got to say no to some things that normally I would say yes to. Um, so that was the beginning of the soft CEO era. Now what happened also was I decided to really shut down access to me during that time because I was also noticing that anytime I would get a ping from someone who wanted to work with me, it would like fire up this like almost like a stress response in me, like, oh no, they want to work with me, I can't work with them right now. It would— I just would get in my head about it. So I was like, if I'm really going on my soft CEO era, I'm going to shut off access to me and I'm going to take all of my contact forms that normally tell you you can apply to work with me, and I'm going to say, go to my waitlist, doors are not open right now. And that felt kind of scary as someone who operates in the online space to just be like, I'm unavailable. But what I did was I sent everybody to a waitlist, and then I served that waitlist by giving them the chance to ask me questions, and I would record little mini videos as responses to that waitlist. And that was my way of saying, I'm still I'm here and I still want to serve you. I just can't take any more clients on right now. I'm, I'm busy. I'm booked and busy. But here's, here's how I can serve you in an energetic way that feels good to me. And so then what ended up happening on the other end of that, months later, when I did decide to open my doors back up, I was inundated with dream clients. And if you've heard my story or seen my story anywhere else, you know, it was like a quick $70,300 cash injection back into my business, and my books were filled for 2024. And that was the most beautiful kind of not just feeling but also just recognition that it's okay for us to take care of ourselves and that what's meant for us will still be there for us.

I think so many people are afraid to say no.

Oh yeah.

It's terrifying, to be clear. Yeah. Yeah. Because we all live with some sort of scarcity mindset. Like you can't just delete that. We learn how to manage it and we adopt more of an abundance mindset and all the ways that we can, but it's still there. And it is scary to say no to the opportunities and to say no to the connections or the networking event, or— because there's always that little voice that's like, well, what if you could meet someone there that would, you know, be the next thing? Or— yeah, totally, totally. How do you— how— because you are such a, like, social person. Um, for those of you listening, Tiffany is like the social butterfly. Everybody knows her. I feel like, at least in, in Nashville I don't know, you're like the queen of Soho House. Like, you're always like doing stuff there. Everybody knows you, and you're at all these events, and then you're speaking on stages, and you know, you have all these connections, and you are a very like social person. So how do you manage the FOMO and the fear of like, maybe I should be saying yes, because if I am just saying no all the time, then this all might go away?

Yeah. I mean, to be clear, I still have it. I'm a human. Obviously, I still have those feelings. I was at an event on Tuesday night and I was a little depleted. I just came back from hosting a retreat. My energy was low. But I was starting to feel better. I was starting to feel like, you know, I can manage this quick little women's day, you know, women's month event. And I got there and I was sitting there and I had, you know, walked in and immediately someone knew me from a podcast episode. And so she's like, "Oh my God, how was Mexico?" I'm like, "It was great. Who are you?" You know, which is lovely and beautiful and I do not take it for granted and I'm so grateful. And then another instance like that happened and I was like, "Oh, okay." And so I went over and I made myself a little charcuterie plate and I got a little glass of wine and I went over to a corner, a table in the corner and I sat down and I was like, "I'm just going to sit here and eat my charcuterie and drink my wine and it's okay that I don't talk to anybody else." Like I'm not here, I'm not here because I need to make 50 connections. Connections, right? Remembering, going back to like, why are you there, I think can be really helpful. So in that moment, I was like, I'm not here for that. I'm here because my friend's meeting me here and I want some quality time with her. So if I sit here right now by myself and eat my charcuterie and wait for her to get here, that's okay. And then at the end of this all, I usually will— if I'm going into a networking situation and I'm, and I'm like thinking I don't, you know, I don't want to have this FOMO mentality. I always say, and I've said this to lots of my clients too, like, go in with the goal of making one connection. If you make one connection, your job is done. And when you, when you distill it down to something like that, you, you can walk away with more ease and confidence and joy. Because it's like, and I did, that night I ended up meeting the woman in charge of that space. We have a coffee date coming up. And I remember walking away and being like, I made the connection I was supposed to make, the end. I'm out. I'm going to bed. I'm going to put my PJs on, you know. But, but it is just a little bit of like really having to check myself and be like, I don't need to meet everybody in this room tonight. That's not what I'm here for. This is not my event, right? Um, and, and then just remembering like, if you just make one connection, great. Savor that connection, nurture that connection, and move on. Um, and it's just a bunch of trust, if I'm being honest. It's just a bunch of trust, like trusting that that what's meant for you won't pass you by, that you're going to meet the people that you need to meet, you're going to make the impact you need to make. And that's a little bit of what the soft CEO era is about too. It's like really embodying trust that I can take my foot off the gas for a minute and the business doesn't crumble. I like to use the analogy that like we're going up a staircase and if I get really, really tired, I needed to pause on one of those stairs. I'm not gonna— I'm not going backwards when that happens. I'm just pausing. I'm getting my, my, you know, bearings and then I can keep going up the staircase. So that helps me a little bit too.

I've also heard the analogy of like filling up the gas tank. It's like you're on a beautiful road trip or a journey of some kind, and if you try to just like keep going, going, going, you will lose a lot more time. Run out of gas. Lose a lot more time than if you were to just like pull off to the side, fill your tank, and then keep going.

Yeah, 100%. And you know, I— I don't think it's necessarily supposed to be easy, but I do think it does get easier with practice, and especially when you start to see the fruits of the labor, if you will, or the non-labor, really. Because I've personally experienced it, and I've watched all my clients experience it over and over again. The moment they rest is like, "Oh my God, the biggest deal ever just landed on my lap." And I'm like, "Mm-hmm, of course it did." You know? Yeah.

And this is one thing that we can maybe add, because I think this is like maybe a little bit bit of a touchier subject, or maybe controversial. So because we all want to believe in like the abundance mindsets and like, you know, you can have it all and you can have both, and it's— yeah, it's this and it doesn't have to be this or that— there of course is a lot of promotion around this idea of like you can work less and make more. And I think that that is true in a lot of ways, because when you work smarter, you definitely can work work less and make more. But I also want to bring to light the version of this story, which is sometimes there does have to be an understanding of the trade-off that we're making. And at least initially, it's not always possible to just pull back your hours and maintain the same level of production, or maintain the same level of clients, or maintain the same level of revenue. And although, like I said, I'm not knocking the like, you can have it all and like work less and make more. I do think that's possible, but also I think that that puts a lot of women in a weird spot if they're trying to force themselves to believe that and it's not physically available yet in their business with the structure that they have or the place that they're at in their journey. And then they feel like they are failing, and then it fuels that addiction to be like, well, I just need to keep saying yes, then I need to do more, and accept more clients and I need to launch more often and I just, I just need to keep going. So that's a very real side of it that I think we can unpack a little bit.

Yes, 1,000%. It's a very real side of it and, um, and something I'm glad we're going to dive into because it is really important to be aware that if you're in the very startup phase of your business, you're not probably going to be able to pull off the gas and expect miracles to happen, right? So recognizing, like, I'm speaking from someone who's been doing this for a long time and I'd been running my business already as a coach for 3 years and have learned over the last 13 years as an entrepreneur how to be a little bit smarter with my time and also how to know what's actually needed for me to do to move the needle. And if you don't already know what you need to do to move the needle, then you might take your foot off the gas and then put your foot back on the gas, do the things that aren't moving the needle and wonder why it's not working. So clarification for sure that there are going to be seasons in your life where you're going to have to work harder and you're going to even have to hustle. That's okay. Hustle is not what I think— the hustle word is not bad. It's the hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle all the time. Never stop. Go. Don't stop. 24/7. Work on the weekends because that's when everyone else is resting. That's the mentality that I think is doing a disservice to us as women and not recognizing that if you don't take care of yourself, nothing else matters, right? But there will be seasons of hustle and then there need to be seasons of rest and where you take care of yourself. Yeah, for sure.

Sure, but I also think like it's so interesting because there was a time period where hustle culture, as people call it now, was super prevalent. And I still think that it is, of course, in a lot of spaces. But if we look at the coaching space specifically, I feel like the pendulum has really swung where people realize like, oh, that's unsustainable, like that's not working. But then there's almost this other like extreme side where it's like whatever, whatever the fucking opposite of hustle is in the feminine is like a space that people get into too. And sometimes that's misleading, especially as we're saying for new entrepreneurs, of they're receiving this message from people that are way further along in their path saying like, oh, it's time to pull back, like say no, like soft CEO, like femininity, like lean in, do less, just be you and the money will come.

And it's like, literally not exactly.

They're, they're in like the first 6 months of their business and they're like, oh, that, that feels really nice to hear, because you are in maybe that kind of like hustle phase of trying to get your shit off the ground. And unfortunately, that's probably not going to be the thing that like gets you to the 6-figure mark or the 7-figure mark. And that's just— I like to be realistic about it, cuz I think there's a lot of— I think there's a lot of unrealistic advice out there about—

oh yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I saw something the other day, someone was calling out another You're a very successful female entrepreneur in the space. And I understand the marketing approach to it. And I actually called out someone else very big on the internet not long ago for a similar thing because I hate dangerous narratives. I really don't like them because I think they set people up for failure. And I am in this space to set people up to win, right? But this dangerous narrative that like, "I did this for 1 hour a week." and it brought me 6 figures, and not also acknowledging that, oh, and I have a team of 10. I have 3 marketing gurus on my team. I've got a graphic designer. I've got a— well, whoever else you have on your team. So while you may have only done that one task for 1 hour a week and it brought you leads, there's so many other— you and I have talked about this on our one-on-one calls. There's so much else going on behind the curtain. That they're not acknowledging. And therefore, I find that to be misleading. Like, I think that's kind of, uh, bad marketing, you know. I get it, I understand it, I get how it gets people to click for sure. So it's good marketing in the sense of does it work, but I think it's a dangerous marketing approach and not something that I, I hope— if, if I ever go that way, please call me out on it because I don't, I don't want to be that way. I don't want to give people the wrong impression. I don't want like tell people, oh, you only have to do this for an hour a week and you'll make six figures. I don't believe that. That's why I don't subscribe to the whatever, 4-Hour Workweek or whatever it is. I'm like, yeah, how realistic is that? Yeah, yeah.

And I think like in terms of like, okay, it's good marketing because it works, but it's bad marketing because it's not totally truthful. Um, with that, like I'm a fan of using, you know, hooks and catchy things that are going to get people's attention attention if then once I go deeper you're providing, you know, the context. If, if the whole thing is just like a blatant sort of like weird, uh, baseless claim, or you just, as someone who's been in the game for a while, you're like, yeah, there's so much else here that's like not really being shown or talked about, um, then it's a little bit more problematic. And also I just think in general we as consumers consumers need to just understand that this is happening and protect ourselves. Like, it's not always everyone else's job to, uh, trigger warning everything, to caveat everything, to disclaimer everything, to provide all full context of everything in a 30-second reel. Sometimes it's not possible. And yeah, that's why these conversations are important, because it's just like, okay, everybody, let's just all be under the understanding together that what you see online is not truthful. Like, just, you know, wake up a little bit, right? And like, essentially stop falling for the bullshit. Yeah, yeah, it's—

yeah, it's on everybody for sure, for sure. And, you know, no, we cannot say everything in a 10-second soundbite. Um, but yeah, it's like you said, just be aware that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Like, and if it were that easy to make a lot of money, we'd all be millionaires, right? Like, the, the success rate for small businesses would not be as dismal as it is. And the numbers or percentages of women-owned six-figure businesses would not be as dismal as it is if it was that easy to just do that one thing for an hour a week and make a lot of money. Um, so just realizing that everybody— every business is different, everybody is different, therefore every business is different. And your job is just to find what works for you.

Yeah. And we're both big fans of, you know, mentorship that allows space for that, which is not just like cut and dry steps 1, 2, 3, do it or don't do it. But that is more, more holistic in, in the sense of understanding what the client needs, where they're at in their life personally, emotionally, spiritually, financially, what is actually going to, like you said, move the needle the most and where we need to pull back and really being able to look at those things because it's not a one-size-fits-all ever. I don't think think in business, really.

I don't think so either. I don't think so either. And I think that just goes back to honoring who you are at your core and what makes— like, what's your superpower, right? And realizing that, that if we ignore that, you're probably going to be unfulfilled and unhappy with what— even if you do find success. I mean, you and I have both also been talking a lot about watching all of these like mega successful women who have built 7 multi-7-figure businesses, 8-figure businesses, and then leave it all behind because they realized that that didn't actually— that was requiring them to act in a way that wasn't actually in their core how they wanted to be, right? So, you know, looking around at that and realizing trust the journey and listen to yourself. Mentorship, I 1,000% believe in. That's why I have you. That's why I do what I do. But I also, you know, I hope that whoever is listening, like, you know what you need also inside. So never, never like take someone else's— if so, if something is someone saying something to you, it doesn't feel good to you, I hope you know how to like use your voice and do what feels good to you.

Yeah, discernment always, especially online. And yeah, like you could— there's been things that I've been advised from my business coaches and mentors that, not that it was bad advice, but it just wasn't a fit for where I was at at that time, and I respectfully sort of declined and chose to do something different. And everybody— like, I think people need to have the agency or, or have the— this is why confidence is so important. Oh my God, confidence and being secure in yourself and self-trust is so important in business. Otherwise you're going to be one of those people that ends up, you know, mentor worshiping and just like becoming a carbon copy of someone. Yeah, or, you know, following someone off a cliff, you know, where it's like, oh, they built this huge business and that's what I want. Meanwhile, they're dying inside, and then a year later they're like disappearing from the internet because their whole life was imploding because of what was going on. So anyway, we could go on and on about this.

We could talk about that for a long time.

Literally, we could go on and on about this topic. But thank you so much, Tiffany, for coming on and sharing your story, and I thoroughly enjoyed like digging into some of the details and, and the parts that I hadn't fully heard yet. So I hope you guys enjoyed listening to this conversation. Tiffany is such a powerhouse. She's a beautiful human. She's wildly knowledgeable in business, as you've heard. She has so much experience, wide range. Um, so yeah, go follow her on Instagram. She has her own podcast that you can tune into. Um, let them know where they can find you.

Yeah, on Instagram I'm @tiffanyknapper, website also Tiffany Knapper, and then my podcast is called This This or More by Tiffany Napper.

Yay! All right, thank you guys so much for tuning in to the show today. If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot, share to your Instagram stories, tag Tiffany and I. Or if you have a business bestie that you think would enjoy this conversation and would resonate, copy the link, send it to her in a text, let her know you were thinking of her. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Bye!