Escaping Hyper-Masculinity & Following Your Intuition At All Costs w/ Amy Natalie

What's up, you guys? Welcome back to the podcast. In this week's episode, I am joined by my friend, fellow coach, and now author Amy Natalie to discuss the challenges of balancing your masculine and feminine energy and following your inner knowing at all costs. Amy shares her personal stories with us, and what I love about this conversation is that I know so many of us are familiar with the idea of masculine and feminine energies, but we take it a level deeper, and I ask Amy some of those really hard questions of the how. So many of us understand this idea of masculine and feminine energetics, but we still have the question of how do I get out of my hyper-masculinity, or how do I step more into my femininity, whether it's in your relationship or in your business. And so we talk about these things on a little bit of a deeper level, and Amy even gives us some practical, tangible practices and things that you can implement into your life to find that balance within yourself. So in this conversation, we talk about tuning into your inner voice, how to know when a relationship isn't right for you. And Amy shares her personal story of marriage and divorce and the intense challenges that came up for her when realizing that relationship may not have been the most aligned. We talk about the roles that religion and the patriarchy play in throwing you out of your alignment of your true path, what you must sacrifice to truly get what you want in life. And of course, we dissect dissect the difference between wounded and empowered masculine and feminine energies. We talk about the signs that you might have too much of one of those energies and how to tap into the other one to seek balance, creating polarity in your romantic relationships, escaping the hyper-masculine matrix of control, and embodying the feminine way. Amy is a women's empowerment coach and feminine embodiment guide with over a decade of coaching experience. She specializes in helping women to emerge as the most authentic, confident, and self-expressed versions of themselves. Her mission is to ignite women into their feminine power so that they can live a life of freedom, pleasure, fulfillment, and purpose. Amy creates transformational spaces for women to experience radical healing and deep soul connection through her retreats, workshops, events, and group coaching programs. And she's also the host of the Feminine Frequency podcast. And in this episode, we are also going to talk about her brand new book titled The Feminine Way: Reclaim Your Feminine Energy to Create a Life of Pleasure, Aliveness, and Vitality. It'll be out on stands and in stores November 11th, 2023.

I think you guys are really going to enjoy this episode, so let's dive in.

Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride.

Let's go make shift happen. Well, I'm excited to talk about all things, obviously the book and everything, but also just like life and stories and feminine energy and all the things. I was reading through the book and I was remembering how, like, I remember when we were in Tulum and you were like basically telling us that like opening story of like being woken up every morning with the anxiety and like, you know, creeping out of your room to go into the guest room and like meditate and try to figure out what the fuck you were going to do with your life. And I just was taken back to that moment when we were in Tulum and you were telling us the story and we were all on the edge of our seats, like, oh my God, gripping to just know what happened next in that version of your life. It feels like another lifetime. I'm sure it does.

It is another lifetime.

Yeah. Yeah. So different. So different. So I don't know. I think that would be a cool place for us to kind of just like start because you open the book with that scene of, you know, it's 4 a.m., you get that pang of anxiety, you wake up, you realize, you know, again, this is hitting me early morning. You sneak out of the room and you go and sit down to meditate. Like, take us back. To that lifetime and how the journey kind of all started, because I think that was the place where you first were being asked to like listen.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that prior to that experience, I had been on a personal development path. I'd been to therapy, I'd gone to some yoga classes, I had done a couple of meditation courses, but I never was consistent with my practices. And I feel like this experience, like the— that low point of waking up and like physiologically my body being so impacted by anxiety where I couldn't sleep and where I just like didn't really know where to put myself. It was one of those things where it's like, okay, like I've tried all the other things and I've heard so many times that having a meditation practice and a morning practice would be helpful for me. And like at this point I kind of feel like I don't have a choice. So that was the experience where I was like, I don't even know what to do with myself. And I went into my guest room and I would sit on this like meditation cushion and I would just like close my eyes. And of course, like the thoughts were racing as they do when you have anxiety. But the more that I kept showing up for this practice and doing the guided meditations, I started to hear more of my inner voice. So instead of it being like this loud noise in my mind, it was like having moments of peace or having moments of clarity where I could really hear what my true self was sharing with me. And what my true self was trying to share with me for years was, hey, this relationship that you're in and this lifestyle that you're in isn't true for you. But like, because I was so connected to like wanting that safety and wanting the validation from my parents, and like there were enough good things in the relationship where it was like, wait, 'How can I let this go? Like, this is crazy.' And, you know, on the outside everything looking so good, but internally just my inner knowing being like, 'This isn't where you are going to thrive. This isn't where you're going to be the best version of yourself. And this relationship and this life that you're in is having you play small.' And the reason how I got there is because of people pleasing, because of social conditioning. And so Yeah, being there on that meditation pillow, as challenging as it was to keep showing up for that practice, like really allowed me to connect with a deeper part of myself that had been trying to speak to me and get my attention through my anxiety, through health issues. And I finally was like, okay, like I get to listen to this.

You say in that part of the book, as I sat in meditation, a question popped into my awareness seemingly out of nowhere. Are you going to keep trying to make everyone else happy? Or are you going to choose your own happiness? At that moment, I realized I couldn't keep living a lie. And I think, yeah, it just speaks exactly to the pattern that you're mentioning here of like the people pleasing was the thing that got you into that marriage, that got you into that, you know, kind of beautiful house, cute dog, white picket fence, sort of like life that was like, okay, I made it, check the box. But you were still really, really unhappy. Yeah, I'd love to— like, now that you're in a totally different place, obviously, in your life and your spiritual journey and in your awareness, like, when you look back, what were— were there signs that it wasn't the right relationship or that you shouldn't have gotten married and you, like, ignored those? Or like, what was that look like? Because obviously at the time you were like, okay, I just think like, yes, it makes sense. It's kind of like that good on paper thing. Where good on paper— it— when someone says, oh, but they're good on paper, that's a person who's not connected to their intuition. Because the only reason that you're justifying that they're good on paper is because there's some other reason inside of yourself, of your higher knowing, that yes, they're good on paper, but also I have a feeling that it's just not fully it. So were there signs looking back that it was like not right?

Oh yeah, there were totally signs. And it's funny what you just shared about good on paper. I often hear women say, oh, but he's so nice. And it's like, yeah, duh. Like, being nice is kind of like a prerequisite. Like, that doesn't mean that it's your person or you're meant to be with them. And I find that oftentimes when women say that, they're like kind of justifying, like they know there's something off or they're like not fully satisfied in some way, but they're like making that justification of like why they should stay with this person and like this fear that they won't find else, which was totally a big part of my fear as well. It's like, well, this is good, so like, can it really get better? Or like, is the grass really greener on the other side? Was like totally what I was curious about. Like, am I—

my—

is this an illusion that it can get better, right? And yeah, um, yeah, through reading other women's stories and through seeing other examples that it can, and that I can have all that I desire and more, was like you know, really helped me to expand my awareness. But coming back to your question about like, were there signs? There were definitely signs. And we were together for 5 years total, including the 2 years that we were married. And I would say in the first couple of years that we were together, I thought that that was what I wanted. And I didn't really know myself at that time. I would say like, I had a lot of self-awareness, but I was 23 years old when I met him, and my spiritual awakening started happening. I would say around like 25 was when I really started to have a lot more connection to my spirituality. And as I started to get to know myself on a soul level, that's when I started to see, oh, there's some— there's a disconnect in like our core alignment of who we are. You know, I'm very personal development focused, I'm really growth-oriented, and in some ways he was, but not in the same ways that I was. Or it just like there was an incompatibility in certain values around health and, and different ways of viewing life, and a little bit more fear-based and kind of like okay with the norm. And I was not. Like, I wanted a big life. I wanted to really thrive and be happy. And so I saw these incompatibilities. And one of the biggest incompatibilities that I saw was our polarity, which is a lot of what I talk about in The Feminine Way, which was that like I didn't feel like he was really embodied in his masculine energy. And I also personally was operating more in my masculine energy kind of because of that, but also because of my own, my own like lack of relationship with my feminine energy. So there was a disconnect in our polarity which impacted our sex life. So there were definitely signs and there were a lot of times where when those signs would come up, I would try and suppress them and be like, no, like I'm just being too surface level or I'm being— what's that? I mean, too vain. Like I'm focusing on these things that like aren't really important.

In.

Like, we have a— we get along well, our families get along well. Like, you know, this is how it's supposed to be. And so I would gaslight myself essentially, where I would say, you know, yes, these things are concerning for me, but no, they're not that bad, right? And over time that became really painful because I was lying to myself. And I was also essentially in doing that technically like lying to the relationship of like, this isn't actually my truth. So I did a lot of trying to like stuff it down and push it to the side and just trying to ignore it because the idea and the thought of ending the relationship was super scary. And I felt like if I did end the relationship, not only would it disappoint him because I did really care about him and we had a really great friendship, but it would also disappoint my family, his family. Like, it would disrupt my entire life to end this relationship that I had been in for 5 years. And that was— yeah, there were signs, but I just like kept ignoring them. And there were physical signs too. Like I had been experiencing recurring like yeast infections for months and I tried everything, like all the alternative medicine approaches. I tried acupuncture and herbs and like changed my diet and all of these things and nothing was changing. And I also had like gained weight and was really struggling with emotional eating. And there was just so many things that were showing me like something's out of alignment. And it wasn't until I ended the relationship that a lot of those resolved naturally, like where I didn't have to force it or try. It was just like, oh, my body responded to me being in alignment with my truth.

Yeah, it's so interesting how when you're not listening, it turns from like an internal sort of like voice or what feels like thoughts into physical experiences like the that the, the ignoring of your intuition can manifest in physical ailments for sure, in the body— pain, aches, autoimmune conditions. Like, it can get really, really severe. And I mean, I think those are all signs, right? The body's trying to speak to you of like, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. Like, come on, something's not right here. Something has to change. And we've heard so many stories from women that have had experiences of, you know, skin issues, or like you said, recurring infections, or certain things, migraines, like all sorts of stuff that they tried so hard to solve. And it wasn't until they started actually following their true path and listening to their truth and standing in it, quitting the job, leaving the relationship, like getting out of the toxic friendships or the environment that wasn't serving them. And then those things kind of start to fix and resolve themselves. I mean, it really is incredible. And you, of all people, know the magic of it. I mean, you wrote a book about The Feminine Way because of how important it is to tune in to this part of ourselves. And you mentioned how kind of like the patriarchy, obviously, and religious constructs play a big role in our societal sort of disconnection from the feminine way or inner wisdom, whatever you want to think of it as. So I'm just curious for you, like, in what ways did religion or patriarchy particularly like play a part in your story of turning away from the truth and shutting off your intuition?

Such a great question. Yeah. And I think the reason why I really start the book in that, that way is really understanding like, how did we get to where we are? Like, why are women feeling so depleted, burnt out, depressed, disconnected? Like, why is that happening? It's not by chance that we have, you know, so many women waking up to being like, okay, there's got to be more to life than this. And so if we look back at the history for over 2,000 years, we have been under this more patriarchal society where there are a lot of messages, both direct and indirect messages, that we get as women of how we're supposed to behave, how we're supposed to look, how we're supposed to make decisions, like what our life should be like, what role we're supposed to play. And in my case, I grew up in a traditional Jewish family, so I went to a Jewish school throughout until high school, high school, and there were a lot of ways in which I, I didn't feel like I was belonging, or I felt like I was wrong or bad if I were to, let's say, express my sexuality, or if I were to really share my emotions and be really sensitive. There were ways in which I got messages over and over and over again that it was not okay to do that, and that if I did that, then I would get in trouble or I wouldn't fit in. And so I modified that, those parts of myself, and in doing so, it led to chronic depression. And I feel like that's another sign that I had very clearly in my life where I wasn't listening to the signs. Like, I, I personally feel like depression and anxiety, there can be a physiological route, but oftentimes it is deeper spiritual complex of like, are you actually living in alignment with your soul? Are you actually doing things that bring you joy? Are you actually being your authentic self? And if not, then that's how our emotions and our energy speaks to us. So yeah, the, the ways that, that it showed up for me were in everything, like the clothes that I would wear, the way that I would speak, how I would present myself online, the people that I was friends with and not friends with. Like, it impacted all parts of me because I wanted so deeply to fit in and to be accepted and approved of. And yet at the same time, I've always had this kind of like inner rebel, like ever since even I was in high school, like I had this like good girl persona that I was like trying to wear because I didn't want to get in trouble. But then at the same time, I was like partying and like doing things that I technically shouldn't have been doing. But it was like in this rebellious way because I grew up in such a confined environment that kind of had me seek like, you know, that pleasure and that wildness elsewhere.

Yeah, I'm sure you're familiar with Danette May, but I had her on the podcast a little bit ago. And it's interesting, she has kind of like a similar version of the story. She grew up in a strict Mormon environment, which that religion has a lot of rules and expectations that get placed on you, especially as a woman. And there's this pressure to get married really young. And so she also, you know, got married when she was really young and then had the, you know, the same sort of experience of like this is not okay, this is not right, this is not actually who I am. But she tells the same sort of story of like, you know, you just keep marching because you don't want to fall out of line and you want to belong. And I think whether it's religion or in the workplace or in your friendships, like so many people are going to be able to relate to this in so many different ways of how like you just keep keep walking on the path because it feels easier than deviating. And I think that the fear that a lot of people have with actually following their intuition or recognizing, oh, maybe I am a little bit different, or I want to express myself in this way, or I want to be more sexual, or I don't want to work in this corporate job, or whatever, is the loss of connection. I think that's the thing that really stops us from following our heart is the fear of losing connection. But if you're someone who's done the hard work of listening to yourself and standing in the truth of what you want, I think what you ultimately realize is that you create much more deeper, better connections when you do so. Not at the start, it's going to feel like you're losing everything and things are crumbling, but eventually you do get to a place of even deeper, better connection. Can you speak to what that was like for you? Because there did come a point in your story where you realized, I have to file for divorce, and everything crumbled. I mean, the thing that gets me every time is the dogs.

I know, I know. I was like grieving that before it even happened because I was like, I'm pretty sure he's going to want to keep the dog. And I was I was like, oh, this is a really tough one. Like, thank God we don't have kids because then you got to co-parent and still see this person. But, you know, if that was the case, I would have done what I needed to do. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a really challenging one and it is really like a full-on ego death. It's like, okay, this version of me that I've been being, this life that I've been in, like, has to die. Like, it has to crumble in order for the most authentic alive version of me to come through. And that's really one of the things about like feminine embodiment that I love is that it allows us to be our authentic self. And when we're in that space of full authentic self, which doesn't mean like always being like the most sexual, loudest, like boisterous person in the room, it's like when you're being the real you, including like the deep emotions that are coming up and the sadness and the grief, but then also like the playfulness and the joy and all of that, that is is so magnetic. Like, that's the most magnetic thing that can happen. And I think in a world where, especially with social media and just like media in general, like, we're coming to a place in consciousness where people can read bullshit. Like, people can read when people are being fake. Like, it's not that sexy, it's not that attractive. Like, on the surface level it might be, but like, that depth of connection that we really want as humans and that intimacy can only happen when people are being authentic and when they're being vulnerable. And I wasn't being that way before because I was afraid that if I shared what was really going on for me, then like people would be mad at me or like I would be judged for it. And I did have some really close one-on-one friendships even when I was married, but it wasn't like the majority of our social circle. And like my family and the people who I was spending the most time with, like, that's not how my relationships were. And I had to get to that point, which was was really the hardest thing, and I, I think I wrote about this in the book too, is like getting to the point where I had to be willing to lose it all, where I was like, okay, if my parents disown me, if I lose all of my friends, if no one, no one's here for me, like, am I willing to do this? And the answer was like, I can't keep living. Like, I can't afford to keep living in this place of depression and feeling sick and unhappy. Like, like, that's not a way to live. And so I have to be willing to give this a shot. And in doing so, that's where I started to meet more soul-aligned, like-hearted, like-minded people, and where I started to cultivate really deep soul connections with friends, with lovers, with, you know, intimate partners. Like, I had never— the type of connection that I really deeply craved was only available by showing up as my authentic self. And it took that like radical crumbling in order to like embody this new version of myself.

Okay, so I have something I think you're really gonna love and your business is gonna love it even more. Do you wanna steal the strategy I've been using to seduce premium buyers and sell out my offers on Instagram Stories? Chances are you're already posting, you're already making sales, sales. But if your Instagram stories aren't working as hard as you are, you're leaving money on the table. Sold Out Stories is going to teach you exactly how to change that so that you can sell out any offer at any price point. And even high-caliber coaches miss this because selling on stories isn't about how much you post or how frequently you show up face to camera. It's about psychological sequencing. And the way you're posting right now might be giving the premium buyers in your audience the ick. Documenting your day and hoping it builds trust, posting look at me content and calling it authority, sharing client wins as soon as they drop in instead of strategically weaving them into a story selling sequence designed to drive demand and convert sales. We both know that you're not here to learn how to show up more. You're here because you know your content could be converting faster and more effectively. Sold Out Stories is going to give you 5 high-converting story selling frameworks built specifically for premium buyer psychology. Inside, you'll get over 6 hours of deep dive video trainings real IG story breakdowns, and live walkthroughs that show you exactly how to elevate your slides from authority building all the way to offer flow in less than 10 slides. My clients have already been using these frameworks to pull 5-figure sales days while posting less. One client generated 14 premium leads from a single story sequence. Another sold out her event in under 6 hours with just 8 strategic story slides. No sales calls, no paid ads, just the right frameworks. You'll walk away knowing how to sequence for desire, transition into your offer seamlessly, and sell daily without ever feeling salesy. You already know your offer is incredible, so now it's just time for your stories to sell it like it is. Grab Sold Out Stories today and turn 10 slides or less into your highest converting content. Let's make your next story your most profitable one yet. Click the link in the show notes below and I'll see you inside.

Yeah, being willing that's really powerful, being willing for it to all go away. Like, it's worth it to get to the other side of what you know that you deserve in life. Like, you've got to be willing to stand in the truth of what you want, or else you inevitably get what you don't want. And I think there's a lot of people perpetuating those cycles in their life because of the fear, because of not wanting to lose that connection, because of the addiction to the safety and the comfort. And, oh, you know, well, this is good for everyone else around me. So, you know, I don't want to be the problem or create some sort of challenge for everyone else. But at some point, like you said in that first quote that we mentioned, like, when am I gonna stop making everyone else happy and really worry about, like, making myself happy?

Yeah. And I do want to speak to, like, people are probably like, how did you do that? Or like, how is that possible? And like, the answer is like daily devotion to spiritual practice, like daily devotion to connecting to to myself and the universe, like cultivating such a deep sense of faith, which takes daily practice to, like, really make a radical decision like that, that's greater than the fear that might be holding me back. And so, like, that's feminine code number 1 in the book is all about deepening your devotion is when we're showing up every day for our practices, like we are strengthening that faith muscle, but we're also like deepening our self-love and deepening our self-worth and like cultivating a trusting relationship with ourself by showing up for those practices. And like, that's really what it takes in order to take these big leaps. And I know that you've been on such a journey with like, you know, connecting to, to spirituality and, and really leaning into the faith and, and and knowing that you're going to be supported, you're going to be guided. And what I found time and time again with myself, with my clients, with, you know, my friends, is that when we're willing to take those big leaps, like, the universe catches us. Like, there's so many doors that open for us. And it is really scary to stand on that edge and be like, okay, I'm gonna do this thing.

Yeah, I always talk about the classic meme We've got the guy on the edge of the cliff and the big hand behind him ready to flick him off. The hand is labeled the universe because it feels like the world and life is like pushing you off this cliff because it's a huge decision. Nothing is working, or right, whether it's the relationship or your health or job or whatever. And it feels so scary because you're basically about to free fall off of this cliff. But then what you don't see from the vantage point the guy on the edge is that there's another huge hand just a little bit of a ways down the cliff, also labeled the universe. So it's like, all right, I got to get you through this hard part, but don't worry, I got you.

I got you.

And I think for all of us that have made those really pivotal decisions in our, in our life to trust and to free fall, because the first time you have no idea idea that the hand is going to be there to catch you. You really don't. But I think the beautiful thing about that is that, as you're saying, when you deepen this devotion and you continue to practice and actually cultivate the belief that, hey, this always happens, the universe is there to catch me, it does become a little bit more comforting. I don't want to say it's easier because it's always hard to make those big monumental decisions in your life, but you start to stack that proof of like, all right, you know, I've done this before. I think I can do it again.

Yeah. Yeah. And you trust the universe, but you trust yourself that if, like, no matter what happens, you're going to figure it out, right? Like, it's gonna work out in some way. And the word that's coming up right now in, in this, in this conversation for me is surrender. And as you know, I, I have a tattoo that says surrender. You and I were in Tulum when I got that. And, you know, the the, the surrender is one of the most challenging practices. It's a very spiritual practice where it's like, okay, I'm going to let go of my need to control, and I'm going to lean back or lean in and trust that the universe has got me and trust that everything's going to work out. And yeah, it takes a lot of practice and faith to get to that place. Absolutely.

So I want to talk about— I want you to walk us through a little bit of, you know, breaking down kind of the difference between wounded and empowered masculine and feminine energies, because we hear about masculine and feminine energy a lot, especially in the coaching space and personal development. And I think, you know, most of our listeners will have a basic kind of understanding of masculine versus feminine, dark, light, yin, yang, that sort of thing. But I also feel like no matter how much we understand, you know, masculine is the doing, feminine is the being, there are still questions in our communities of like, okay, but like, how, like, how do I know if I have too much of one or not enough of the other? Or how do I transition from being super masculine into being more feminine? Like, what should I do after work? Like, there's still a lot of like practical applications that I feel people aren't super clear on. So I'd love to just hear like your perspective on wounded versus empowered masculine and feminine energies and any tips that you might have for people in what you call like the inner union, right, of like embracing both, allowing both and making them work together.

Mm. Yeah. This is, this is huge. And this is exactly why I was like, I need to write this book because these are the things that I wanted to know. And like, this is, these are the questions I get all of the time. Like, I understand what masculine feminine is, but how do I connect my feminine energy? Right. Yeah. So I was like, all right, here's the manual, like, this is how you do it. So yeah, what I'll start by sharing is that there is such a thing as having too much masculine energy, and there's also such a thing as having too much feminine energy. And so the, the terms that I like to use for this is masculine overdrive and feminine overflow. When we're in that masculine overdrive, that's when we often feel stressed out, overwhelmed. We are tired a lot of the time, um, and we feel kind of rigid. Like stiff almost in both our personality and also can be physically. When we're in feminine overflow, when we're too far in the feminine, we can feel ungrounded, chaotic. We can kind of feel like we're lost in the clouds a little bit, feel lost in general of like, I don't have enough direction, like I'm not, not making progress. So there's kind of like this pendulum of of, of these extremes. And then the, the goal is to actually come into inner harmony between the masculine and feminine, which means, like you, you shared, like knowing when to shift from your masculine energy into your feminine and vice versa. And there, there's really an embodied practice of like feeling what it's like when you're too far in your masculine and not waiting until you get to the point where you literally your body's shutting down, you have no energy left until you finally are like, okay, I'm gonna rest, I'm gonna take care of myself. But kind of that ping pong where it's like you go super hard and then you can't do anything, um, like that's not the, the where we want to be. We don't want to have these huge pendulum swings. So the more that you're practicing and, and getting in touch with both your masculine and feminine energy, the less you get into those extremes. And what I find is some women have a harder time connecting with their masculine energy where they're like, they need more structure, they need more direction, they need to have more focus. And there's other women who, you know, have all of that down. They've gotten really good at being a badass hustler and like getting shit done, but they lack that softness, they lack the vulnerability, they lack the ability to be in flow and to, to like enjoy their lives, to experience pleasure. So there's there's— depending on where you're at on your journey, like, the practices are going to be different. But overall, what I see in the collective is that most of us are in masculine overdrive. So the, the practices and the tools to get back to connecting more with your feminine energy is really about shifting the energy from your mind, which is where most of us live most of the time. Like, when I have asked this to my clients, like, what percentage of your time do you feel like you're in your head? They're like, go 85 to 90% of the time, like all of the time, right? Now, the feminine is in the body, it's in the breath, it's connecting to your emotions, it's connecting to your pleasure. It is really about like that, that life force energy that gives us that vitality and that, that aliveness. And so the practices that we're looking at here to connect your feminine energy is, A, like how do we get out of the mind, which is the daily devotional practices come in, whether that's meditation, walking in nature, gratitude journaling, affirmations, like whatever it is to help you to quiet like that, that, that mind chatter. And then how do we connect more with the body? One of the most common ways that people know is through yoga, which is like movement and breath combined to, to have that mind-body connection movement. I love dancing. Like intuitive movement, not this like structured dance program, but it's like, okay, can I breathe and listen to music and move my body in the way that it wants to move? So anything that we can do to shift the energy again from the mind to the body is going to help us to be in that more open and receptive space.

Hey, don't forget that every month we are picking a Listener of the Month to win $50 in cash just for showing love to the show. All you have to do is leave an epic review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, screenshot the review before you hit submit, and DM that screenshot to us on Instagram at Makeshift Happen Podcast. And that's it. I want to thank you for being such a loyal listener and show my appreciation by putting a little extra cash in your pocket. I know it's super easy not to do it, but every single rating and review seriously helps the show rank higher and reach new people, so we appreciate them more than you know. We'll announce the next winner at the end of the month and slide into your DMs if it's you, so keep an eye out and good luck. Love you guys, and thanks for supporting Makeshift Happen.

What are some signs if someone's like, I don't really know if I'm in the masculine overdrive? What are some signs that you might be?

Yeah, I would say that when you are in the masculine overdrive, it can feel like you're being really controlling, or when you like are being overly— like you're always in your to-do list and you're always focusing on like the next goal, or being in that like hyperproductive mode. But in the body, it can often feel like tension in the jaw, tension in your shoulders. Um, it can feel hard to tap into your emotions. So you might notice that like in your relationships, it's hard to access that depth of intimacy that you want and that, that deeper connection with both friends and with, you know, your partner. Um, I feel like when we're in our masking, we're often in that kind of like not fight or flight mode— it could be fight or flight mode— but it's like you're just constantly on all of the time. Yeah, that's what I see a lot of.

I think a lot of people will relate to that. I know I definitely experienced that in my life and have to— that's kind of like where I go when I'm stressed or like triggered. Like my sort of like coping mechanism is masculine energy. Like if I want to fix something in my life, I'm like, okay, let's just, you know, focus, make a plan, do to-do list, let's work hard and and that's kind of my coping mechanism. And I know some people have different coping mechanisms where they'll kind of maybe be a little bit more avoidant and they're like, oh, well, this is really stressing me out, so I just need to like get outside and go away and go to like do something else. And then they're kind of in that, like you expressed earlier, the chaotic feminine where they feel like they're sort of like lost and not really getting things done. So I know it's different for everyone of like, you know, at what stage of that pendulum swing are you at? But my story was definitely like in the hypermasculine and then kind of like swinging over into the feminine and discovering, oh my gosh, there's this new land where I can, you know, delete everything on my calendar. It's so much white space. But then also that doesn't feel good after a while because it's like too much. And I think in my experience and what I've noted from a lot of my clients as well, feels like, you know, the pendulum comes all the way over to one side, and when you let it go, naturally it has enough momentum because it's like, fuck this, wherever it was that you got sick of, and it, you know, swings all the way over hard into the other side. And then eventually we kind of get that like gentle, like dipping in and out of the masculine and the feminine energy. And I feel like your experience was similar because you mentioned that you felt in your marriage and everything that you were kind of in more of like your masculine energy. And there's that, you know, need to control or fix things. But then there's also the element of like, okay, what energy is your partner bringing? And so let's— I want to talk about this piece of polarity that you mentioned earlier, because not only is it our own energy that's going to impact it in partnerships, but also the other person's energy. So what would you say to women? Because there are so many of us in the masculine overdrive, yet we desire for our partners to really be embodied in their masculine energy, as you described in your marriage. We're like, oh, I really want him to, like, take charge and, you know, be in control and plan the things and, you know, take care of stuff for me and make me feel really safe and but also make me feel really like ravished and desired and devoured. And there's something going on there that is not allowing that dynamic to take place. So I'd just love to hear your thoughts on polarity and your experience in it when you and your partner were kind of like, you know, the two ends of a magnet that just don't click. I mean, that's like what polarity is, is when you've got those opposite ends, the magnet just naturally like sticks together. But if you're in opposing poles or you've got the same pole against the other one, it's not going to work. So what has that been like for you and how can we start to like work on that if we are in our hypermasculine but we desire the leadership of a masculine man?

Mm. Yeah, I have so many thoughts here on this because it's such a deep topic that I've been like obsessed with for so long. Yeah, I mean, a few things can happen when a woman is in her, her hyper-masculine energy, especially in her relationship. So one of the things that can happen is that if you're in your masculine energy and your partner's in their masculine energy, then you kind of end up being like business partners, or there can be a lot of like friction and conflict where there's kind of like a power struggle that can happen. Alternatively, depending on, you know, where your partner's at in their development, if you're always in your masculine, it can shift your partner into their feminine. And this is often what happens when women kind of like emasculate men unknowingly, where they like don't even give their partners a chance to step in and lead. They're just like assuming that their partner can't do it. They don't even feel like their partner is capable of doing it, or they're like, I'm going to plan everything and And it's like, cool, well, if you want a man to lead, you have to let them lead. You can't just say you want it, but then you take over everything and you make all the plans and like you make all the decisions and you don't even let them feel emotions. Like you think that when they are having a hard time, like it's unattractive and it's like, no, we actually have to create space for them to be able to, to be in both in their masculine and feminine, right? So the first step is really learning how to create the inner union within yourself of learning how to be in your feminine energy, which I know you as a business owner and me is like when you come home from work, like, are you bringing that same energy from your business into your relationship? If so, it's not going to be that sexy and it's not going to be that fun. So taking intentional time when you step away from work and step away from your business to come back into your body, to get out of the checklist and the, the go, go, go mode and come back into your body, connect with yourself. And that will help you to be in a more receptive state to your partner and to connection. That happened to me so much in my marriage where I would just like keep staying in that mode and then like my partner would come home and he would try and be affectionate with me and I would be be like not interested, or have, you know, or I'd get to the end of my day and he might want to have sex and I'm like, I'm too tired. Like, I've been going the whole day, like, I'm not interested because I'm too tired, right? So these are some of the dynamics that, that can happen. And the more that we can be aware of, like, oh, actually I feel like I'm making all the decisions and I'm, I'm, I'm not connected to my emotions right now because I'm like distracting myself and staying busy. Like he can't hold space for you if you're not being vulnerable and you're not like sharing what's going on in your emotions. Like he can't be that support for you. He can't be that space for you. So yeah, what I found is sometimes even when we shift into our feminine energy, we don't even have to say anything and our partner can feel that. And that's the magic of this work, is that it is an energetic thing. It's not just like a strategy thing where you're like, do this thing and your partner will do that thing. It's just like this, this energy and way of being. And what I found, especially in my current partnership, is like when I'm being my full feminine self, when I'm being like all parts of myself, like that is when my partner is the most attracted to me. That's where I'm the most magnetic. That's where our relationship can go deeper and where I can really have— be met in all of the ways. But if I'm just being this like predictable always in my masculine, you know, version of myself, like it's not as sexy or as interesting to my partner.

I feel that so much. I love that you shared on your stories that you started doing this practice of like dropping into your body and dancing before your partner came over, kind of like just like intuitive movement, and that you felt that that really like changed the polarity for you guys when you would out.

Yeah, it's such a simple practice, and you can do this like in your car. You can have a dance party. You can, you know, I like to even if I'm noticing that I've been in my masculine energy a lot throughout the day, it's like, you know, changing into something that's more like comfortable and flowy, or like putting on some music that helps me to get like shake out some of that, that rigid energy and like being, you know, so focused on thinking and, and being in my mind. And so it's like, can I drop into that like either sensual or playful or just like getting back into my body. And when I do that, then my partner comes over and it's like, cool, like I'm, I'm excited to see him. I'm present, I'm open. And that, that way of connecting and dropping into connection is, is so different. And, you know, I mean, it's an ongoing practice. Like yesterday I had a really big day with clients and my partner came over and I knew when he came over that like I was still still feeling like the, the effects from my day. And I was like, you know what, I think that like I need to get outside for a little bit. Like, do you want to go sit in the park or do you want to go for a walk? And just like even inviting him into that space and sharing that like I need that decompression time and that time to like come back into my body. And as soon as we finished hanging out, I was like, oh, I feel so much better after spending a little bit of time in nature. And, and it, it shifted my energy to be like in that more relaxed, soft, receptive state.

Do you have any thoughts on— I think the reason that people, women especially, are not doing these things is because, A, it feels like it won't make a difference, or B, it feels like it's a waste of time because there's so much on their plate and there's so much that needs to be done that they would just rather be doing the things that matter. Whether for you, you know, you could be like a mom and you're managing home life and the kids and making sure things are cleaned and dinners are made and lunches are packed. Like, it doesn't even mean that you need to be like a business owner or working all the time. I think you're— that masculine energy can be expressed in many different roles that we play as women in life. And so, yeah, like, how— was there anything that you did or that you experienced that really helped you open your mind to the realization that like it was an important thing that was worth your time and that it was productive in a sense, because that's kind of like the addiction that the hypermasculine has is like, well, there's things that need to get done, and if I don't get them done, then they're not going to get done, and then tomorrow I'm just going to be more stressed. So I'd rather just like overdo it today. I don't have time to fucking, you know, float around and twirl my hips. You know, I think that is the mentality. So, and like, you know, there's this saying nowadays where it's like rest is productive because it allows you to reset But like, how do we get— how do we help women to actually embody that and start practicing it? Because I think a lot of us know it on an intellectual level. Like we were saying, we know masculine and feminine, but still here I am, you know, in my— whatever it is for you, whether you're in the chaos or you're in the rigidity, how do we actually help people like recognize that these practices are worthwhile?

Yeah, I mean, I think that ultimately there has to be an internal desire for change and transformation, which I know that if, you know, women are listening to this podcast, like, there is that desire. And there's also a deeper knowing that, like, what they're doing is not sustainable and it's not working for them. And so sometimes that has to get to the point, unfortunately, where it's so bad that we have to listen, like in my case, where where it's like, cool, I don't actually have a choice. And I, I hear this a lot from women who go through burnout. It's like, yeah, they're, they're in that productivity mode, but they burn themselves to the ground and then they can't actually do the things that they want to do. They can't, you know, show up for the people that they want to show up for, the tasks they want to show up for. If they, if they are doing that, they feel not present, they feel disconnected, they feel run down. And so it's just like not enjoyable. So sometimes I use the analogy of like, you have to touch the hot stove a few times before you actually realize that it's hot, or you have to bang your head against the wall a few times. And unfortunately, I feel like that is part of how, like, we learn as humans is like, you know, get to that place where like, okay, I can't do this anymore. And it doesn't have to be that way. You can start to see these signs and start to recognize them. And what I'd like to offer is that you don't have to make this like radical change all at once. At once. Like, I really like to start with what's like one daily practice, and it could literally be, okay, I'm gonna turn on a song today. Like, every day I'm gonna do a minimum of one song dancing. Like, I'm gonna turn on some music and I'm gonna dance, right? Or, or what are some ways that you can prioritize 5 minutes to connect with yourself? And I think it's these baby steps versus these like radical shifts of like, I'm gonna change everything about about myself that actually allow us to make these changes. And what I've found is that when we do these practices, or when we break it down into these pieces, we notice, oh, when I do that thing, I actually feel better. And I do feel like ultimately we all want to feel good. Like, that's— we do want to feel good, and we do want to be the best versions of ourselves. And so being patient with yourself, having grace, like, it's not going to be a perfect process from the time you start working on this. Like, it's going to take some time. It's definitely like a cyclical process. It's not just like you start doing it and then you, you, you get there from point A to point B. Like, there's gonna be bumps along the way, but taking these small steps towards it, I think, is, is the best approach to, to making these changes. And, um, yeah, in the book I also talk about the, the aspect of connecting with your cyclical nature, and this is what you were talking about, about rest being productive. What I've found with my clients is when we put it into the terms of seasons and understanding that there are different seasons in our business, in our life, in our health, in our relationships, where some seasons require us to be more, you know, in our, our outgoing and being in more of that productive state, like the summer season, and And then there's seasons where we need that fall or that winter in order to rejuvenate our energy so that we can go back out and do what we're meant to do. But if we skip over those seasons, like, it's not sustainable. And so when we say that rest is productive, like, it is hard to understand that because we have a culture that is so programming us, like, your worth is determined by how much you do. Your worth is determined if you're busy, if you're reaching certain goals, if you're reaching certain milestones. Like, we have to work on that deeper underlying messaging of like, yes, like, you are still worthy and valuable when you slow down. And when you actually do that and take care of yourself, you can show up for all the things in your life in a much higher capacity. And I think that's the thing that takes time to learn. Like, I can say that, but when you start to feel it and notice the difference, like, everything changes in your life from that place.

I think it's the— that also realization of like the things that you've been sold to want. Once you start following more of the feminine way and honoring your cyclical nature as a feminine being and deepening your devotion and doing all these things that you talk about in the book, when you start to do that, you realize that the desires that you've been sold aren't actually the things that make you feel your best, like the achievements or the productivity or being the best at everything or making the most amount of money or, you know, having the, you know, highest position at the company. And it's not that you can't also have those things and be embodied in your feminine, but I think for a lot of us, we do end up realizing realizing, oh man, like, I'm just kind of like a hamster on a wheel, and this is like a dream that was sold to me that wasn't ever actually mine. And the more that you start to kind of live in that harmony space that you're speaking of, you realize, like, this is actually where I'm happy, and having the balance is something that makes me feel deeply fulfilled. And so I don't feel as much outside pressure. I'm not as swayed by the shiny objects or the dangling carrots of like, oh, but you could make more money if you pushed harder, if you worked more. If you— like, those things don't sway you as much anymore because you're so embodied in the knowing of like, this is how I feel fulfilled.

Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you how many stories I have of clients who have reached like pinnacle success in their careers, or they've checked all the boxes and they did all the things, and they're like, wait, I thought I was supposed to be happy. Like, why am I so unfulfilled? Why am I so unhappy? And that's really where these deeper layers of, okay, the things that I thought were going to be the things that mean success on the outside actually aren't what fulfill me the most and aren't what make me feel the most alive. And like you said, I don't feel like has to be either-or, that you either like stick in the system and you do the things that you're supposed to do and you make money, or you like follow your passions and you live the life that you want to live, and then you have to be like a struggling artist. Like, I don't believe that. And that's— it's, it's helpful because like you followed your dreams and you've created success through your passions, which means that it's possible. And same thing for me, like, you know, there's so many examples that it is possible to to follow your truth and to live in alignment and to be financially successful as well.

Yeah, both and.

I love it.

Thank you so much, Amy. I love this conversation. I know it's going to support so many women. You guys, Amy's book, The Feminine Way, is going to be out on November 11th. It's all about reclaiming your feminine energy to create a life of pleasure, aliveness, and vitality. Amy, let everyone know where they can find you and where they can grab grab the book.

Thank you so much for having me on. I loved this conversation. And yeah, you can find me on the Feminine Frequency podcast, so you can find me over there. And you can also find me on my website, amynatalieco.com. That's where you can get the book. And of course on Instagram, if you find me at Amy Natalie Co, the link in my bio has everything that you'll need— the link to the book, the link to my podcast. And then I also offer a guided morning ritual. So if you're wanting to get started with your daily devotions and you're like, okay, how do I actually create the space and time for myself, I have a guided practice for you to, to download and to start working with.

Beautiful. We will link that for you guys in the show notes that you can access it super easily. Make sure that you go give Amy a follow. If you loved this episode and you know a woman in your life who it would be supportive Victoria Ward, please copy the link and send her this episode, or screenshot it and share it to your stories. Let us know what you loved, and we will talk to you soon.

Bye, guys!