Facing Your Fears, Building Confidence & Mastering Your Craft w/ Madison Ciccione

What's up guys, welcome back to the podcast. Before we jump into today's juicy conversation, I just wanted to give you a little life update. So we just got back from our trip to Ibiza. If you have been following along on Instagram, I shared a bunch about it in stories and then I did a big photo dump and it was just like the best little getaway that Jaime and I had together. We ate amazing food, we swam in turquoise water. We stayed in this vibey little hotel, and we went to the Kygo concert at Ushuaia Beach Club, which, as you know if you listen to the bonus episode, I so wanted to go to that show.

And it was so much fun.

We just had the best time. And it reminded me just how much I love surrounding myself with people who have that kind of YOLO energy. And I'm so grateful that Jaime was down for the adventure and that he eventually said yes and booked the flights with me. And yeah, I just love hanging out with people who prioritize living fully and aren't afraid to just say fuck it every now and then and make some memories, you know. So I thought I'd give you guys a little push, nudge in the right direction, give you the sign, like, whatever it is that you're thinking about doing in your life that you're worried about spending the money on, just go do it. Book the flight, spend the money, say yes to living your biggest, fullest, juiciest life. I realized so much after this trip that experiences are so, so worth it. And no one has really gotten to the end of their life and ever said, you know, oh, I wish I'd been more careful. I wish I had traveled less. I wish I had waited until my dreams felt super realistic to have the perfect moment to do things. You know what I mean? Like, no one, no one does that. We, we all want to live big, and we're all going to die at some point, and we're going to wish that we had done these things and we had prioritized the experiences and, and poured into ourselves more and given ourselves more of those experiences that, that light us up and bring us lifelong memories or friendships or deeper connection with the people in your lives or whatever it is. So here's just another sign from me. I know this is like my whole brand message, but YOLO, we're all gonna die. Start living bigger now. And if you want to do that with me and with a group of soul sisters, just a quick reminder that we have a couple of spots left for for the Dream Life Immersion Retreat this December at our most affordable room rate. So there's just a couple of spots left for our most affordable rooms. So you've been thinking— if you've been thinking about joining us on the retreat, now is the time to make sure that you book your spots. We have payment plans available, so there's that option. You can either pay in full or do a payment plan. If you want to do a payment plan, just shoot us an email at info@samanthadeely.com and we will hook you guys up. But we are very, very excited for this trip. I am bringing my friend Susie again this year to do her incredible hypno breathwork for you. So it's going to be a life-changing experience. There's so much spirituality and deep personal growth infused into this island getaway. Soul-aligned friendships— you're going to meet amazing people. This is really perfect for the woman who wants to YOLO and gift herself a trip that is just more than a vacation but is actually a profound, life-changing experience. So I can't wait to meet some of you guys in person and hang out for a week in the white sands of the Dominican Republic and do this deep work together in our gorgeous beachfront villa. The, the views are incredible, like life-changing. I also just, um, am thinking about, you know, 2024, and I'm not sure if we're going to do another retreat this upcoming year. I might be taking a break to focus on some other projects and things. So I know there's a lot of you that are like, maybe I'll come next year. If you're thinking about it, if you can make it work, come this year. Um, it's going to be amazing, and I can't wait to meet you and hug you in person and spend an amazing week together on an island doing the soul work together. So also, if you are a past or present client of mine, just a reminder that we have a special deal going on for you guys. So if you've ever been in one of my signature programs, Abundant and Ambitious, From Burnt Out to Badass, Wealth Calibration, Top Tier, or Private Business Mentorship, there's a special deal going on just for you guys, for my clients. So So if you missed our emails about that, just shoot me a message on Instagram or email us at info@samanthadaily.com, and we will let you know what that deal is for the retreat because it's special just for clients. All right, you guys, let's dive into this week's episode. I'm so excited to bring you this conversation. I'm joined by Madison Ciccone, who is an emerging thought leader, speaker, and confidence coach, and the host of the Wicked Fearless podcast. As one of SoulCycle's top instructors in the country, Madison knows what it takes to achieve success. Her SoulCycle SoulCycle class has been described as if Tony Robbins and the Sahara tent at Coachella had a baby. And it was in those studio performances on the podium that eventually evolved into an entire brand around helping women identify and embody their purpose, harness true bravery, and take bold action into their lives. In this episode, we dive into her journey from a Hollywood executive assistant to a top SoulCycle instructor, her rock bottom moment as a young professional living in LA, getting fired, trying to climb the ladder, how how to navigate facing your fears head on. And we also talk a lot about confidence, where confidence comes from, why we always want more of it, how to build it, and the qualities that you need to master your craft in your industry no matter what it is that you do. And a little bit about social media and balancing using it for business versus leisure. We just get into so many things. I think you guys are really gonna enjoy this episode and Madison's like radical authenticity and just her personality. I had so much fun recording with her, so Let's dive in. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shit happen.

Welcome to the show, Mads. I'm excited to have you. I enjoyed our conversation so much when we recorded for your show, so I'm really excited to have you.

I'm pumped to be here. I always— yay, yay.

Um, okay, so to introduce you to the audience and just kind of give people a little background, I want to go back a little bit in your journey because I know that you were like an executive assistant in Hollywood. Take me back to those days. Let's start there. What was life like? Where, where were you at mentally?

Not in a good place. You know, you can only say that looking back now. But yeah, so I went to school in Nashville for entertainment and music business at Belmont University. And that kind of led me out to LA. I was always like, bright lights, big city. You know, when you just get something in your mind and there's really no rhyme and reason for it, it's just like, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. So flash forward, you know, I did an internship out in LA my spring senior semester of college with Ellen DeGeneres. And then that kind of gave me the bug of like, this is where I want to be. This is what I want to do. Whatever. So I, one of the ways, you know, you can get in from the bottom, it's like you can go to the mailroom for, you know, different agencies, executive assistant, PAs, personal assistant, whatever. So I went on a ton of different interviews. I did hundreds of interviews, like hundreds. I was in, I was actually part of like a temp agency that would like send me out and I kept being like close but no cigar. I got to temp for like Nigel Lithgow Productions, Lionsgate, Bain Company, like all these— 20th Century Fox, like crazy companies. And it was always like someone was out on maternity leave or like there was a long absence and they were like, sorry, like we don't have a job for you. And I eventually got hired and I worked a myriad of different jobs with different people. The EA world led me to kind of marketing advertising agency life, like creative digital ad agencies there. Um, and that's kind of like what the corporate side of my journey looked like until I made that transfer to fitness and SoulCycle and wellness and all that stuff. Um, LA is all the craziness and things you would expect it to be. And I mean, I could, I could go on and on about that. Um, but yeah, that was kind of how my story started. It was so far from where I am currently today and yet plays well in the sandbox with all that I do in some weird, crazy roundabout way.

Yeah. What was it like living in L.A.? I assume you were probably like in your young 20s at that point, right? What was, what was that like? Like in terms of, you know, climbing the— not necessarily the corporate ladder, but like trying to move up in your career and get in, get your foot in the right doors and chase success in a sense in that way and the kind of energy or the stigma that L.A. has of, you know, status and who are you or who have you worked with being really important. Like, I wonder if there's any comparison that came in or like, how was it living in L.A. as a young 20-something trying to find yourself in your career and also just find yourself in life?

Yeah, you know, I've often thought about this because I feel like in the last You know, I was in LA from like 2010 to 2015, '16-ish. So I feel like right now there's been this like boom, this rebirth of like growth and personal development and doing the right thing and, you know, whistleblowing, calling people out. And I feel like I was in LA when none of that existed. Like it was grind time. You worked all the hours all the time. There was no balance. There was no whatever. You had horrible bosses. People were psychotic. Like you've heard all the stories in the media. Everything is very true. I oftentimes think like, what would it be like to work in Hollywood now? Is it softened? Has it, you know, what's going on out there? It was all those things when I was there. So, you know, being in my young 20s, sleeping like on a mattress on the floor and like shopping for food at the 99 Cent Store, just doing any odd job like waitressing at night for like runway waitresses or being a patron girl for like a promo event, like literally doing anything. Everything I could to, like, stay out there. And that was just— it was just wild. You know, they're like, pay your dues, get in early, do this, show up early, stay late. And it was very much all of that. And yet I feel like you get to a point where you're just like, does this really work? Like, where's the threshold for where I quote unquote breakthrough? Where's my pop? When's it going to be my season? And for me, that kind of didn't necessarily happen in a way that I thought it would. Actually, my like huge pivot was getting fired from an ad agency and, you know, getting my desk locked down and walked out to my car. And I talk about this a couple times on my own podcast of like, nobody prepares you for that type of shit. Like nobody tells you what happens when the rug gets pulled out or you get fired or like these Things happen in life where it might not have anything to do with you, your skills, your worth, anything. It might just have to do with like losing an account and the company can't keep the lights on from like an operational standpoint. But as a young 20-something, you don't think about any of that. You know, I can say that now as the Steve Jobs quote goes, looking back, connecting the dots, right? But you know, at the time it was very jarring and I was like, what am I gonna do? Like, I just feel like nothing's working out here. Having scraped and scraped and tried to figure it out and worked all the jobs and all the things. Um, and at the time I was really obsessed with like taking all the boutique fitness classes and going to all the places. And obviously LA is so great for that outdoor events. Like all the greatest stuff you can do is there. And my friends were like, you should be doing that. Like you go before work, you go after work, you're part of like the dance crew. Like that's your crew. That's your people. That's your community. Like, why are you not working in that? And so that's kind of like what led me after that big, like, quote unquote, bottom out catalyst for change moment when I got fired there. That's what led me then to trying to get in with SoulCycle, which I obviously did. But that was that kind of pivot, how that happened.

Yeah. So, okay, let's talk a little bit about the getting fired because you mentioned I think a lot of people can resonate also with grinding for so long and then wondering like, Is this— was I just sold this as a dream of like, if you grind long enough, like it'll happen for you? Or does that actually work? Or maybe, you know, getting fired, I'm sure in my case and in your case was kind of like a redirection into what you were supposed to be doing. And so it was a blessing in disguise. But in the moment it feels like, you know, this total shitstorm of like, oh my God, like, and I don't know, maybe you can relate to this too. Like when I got fired from my dream job, I was like, I'm— I've literally never been bad at something before. Yeah, like I've never gotten like kicked off of a sports team or like, you know, gotten in trouble at school or like I just like was— I never got like bad grades. Like I just, I really was not. And maybe like I don't say that to brag. I say that to be like I was not prepared. Like I was not seasoned with like how to face adversity and not make things mean something about myself. Like I totally made it mean something about myself of like, oh shit, well, like maybe I wasn't as good as I thought that I was. So Like, what was the— what happened there for you, like mentally, when you did get fired before the redirection to SoulCycle and obviously something that aligned way more with you, but in the in-between, like, let's talk about that for a second.

I definitely had a very visceral memory that like sticks with me of going out and just like crying in my car. And I remember I was dating a guy that was like a little bit older and like very secure in his career and like in a really good spot. And I remember I was like, oh my God, I'm going to have to like go to dinner with him and tell him I got fired tonight. Like, just like, just like now looking back, I'm 34. Like, I just want to be like, oh, like, I want to help you because people don't prepare you for that. And you definitely do internalize it. Like, I was like, I suck. Oh my God, I must be terrible. Like, it never occurred to me that like, no, you got fired for something that was not what your skill was, was not what, you know, you were a high-level C-suite executive assistant, PA, running people's lives, flights, all these things. Like, I could run someone's life to a T, do every meeting, everything, get you there, get you back, cars all over the world. Like, that was what I was doing. And what I had gotten kind of hired to this new place in this quasi role, these companies try to make you do several different things, like a little bit of finance, a little bit of HR, when it really should be probably 2 or 3 people doing your job. But no one really says anything because you're like first on the chopping block, little like, you know, you're just like the young gun. Like, all right, we'll just like, whatever, they'll just do it. So it's just really interesting. That's what I meant by like, I wonder what the mentality is like being just starting out now. It's really hard because I'm kind of of two schools, right? I do believe that there's those things make you so much stronger and you don't realize it at the time how that really is. And those type of adversities then make you who you are as you and I show up today, like, well, how did you handle that? How did you do that? And it's like, one step at a time. I figured it out. I reverse engineered what I wanted. I made the first right move or the next best move I thought was right for me. And then that led to something else, which led to something else. And then, you know, somehow I'm down the road to where I am now. But I think, you know, you're not prepared for that. You're like too young. It's your first initial kind of experience. And I think that does happen. It does take a toll on your worth. Like I said, you're not like, oh, it was probably just X, Y, and Z. You're like, I suck, I'm bad, I have zero skill set, everything I thought I was is a lie. Like, you go into that tailspin, and it's okay to have a pity party, of course. Like, I feel like it would almost be like maybe you'd be like some kind of like detached, like, be like sociopathic to walk out and be like, oh, whatever, like, I'm good. No, like, you know, we're human, we're gonna be like, gosh, like, we want to be like, we want to be good, we want to excel, we want to be successful. So of course that's going to feel like a bottom out moment, like the trap door. I don't know why, but because I've watched all the videos of Taylor Swift's tour, I just think of the part where she jumps into the stage. So for lack of better words, not jumping down, but if someone pulled the secret door and you just fell down, that's really how it feels, especially in the way that it happens. You know, some, some companies literally make you feel like you are, I don't know, like, like a threat. Like you're— they lock down your desk, they walk you out of the building, you're getting paraded out. It's embarrassing as hell. You don't get to keep any of your contacts. You don't get to say bye to any of your friends. They take away your badge, your key card, and they're like, bye, good luck out there. And that's that. Good luck out there. And that's that. There's no empathy. There's zero compassion. It's like pretty fucked up, honestly. I have a whole episode where I like talked about it. But yeah, like You are not prepared for that. No one's ever prepared for that. And like, it's happened to me several times and the feeling still like feels the same. It's that like icky, um, really fight or flight type of moment. So does it get easier when things like that, maybe it's not always firing something else? Sure, it gets easier, but it's always gonna feel in your body pretty much the same.

Okay.

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Yeah, no, I think that's a good point too. Like even for going beyond just this specific example, but I always talk about this, you know, with things about like fear and self-doubt. And I think a lot of people are waiting that like they're never going to feel those sensations anymore. And it's almost like they're still there, but you're going to have so much more awareness of what's actually happening and you're going to be able to discern like what is actually mine here and how is this— is this truly about me or what is actually happening? What is my ego telling me versus what I know to be true? Like you just have so much more tools to be able to help yourself navigate the feelings. But I don't think that we stop, you know, especially being online. I talk about this with my clients a lot of like waiting to not feel anything when people say negative stuff about you or it's like, well, I don't really— in my experience and in my perspective, I don't really think that that day is coming. Like you said, you'd probably have to be a little bit sociopathic to be like, oh my God, lol, people are like telling me to you know, jump off a bridge or whatever. Haha. Yeah. To not have feelings is not natural. So it's not about not feeling self-doubt. It's not about not feeling hurt by people's negative comments. It's not about not caring what other people think. Like, that's a huge one of like, oh, when am I going to get to the day where I just like don't care what people think about me anymore? It's like, well, I don't really think that day is coming. I think that you just get better at navigating it.

Yeah. I think also you think so highly of yourself that it doesn't matter. You're like, so it could be like that. But I, I agree with you 100%. I think you just create these beliefs and practices and rituals and routines that instill this inner self-confidence in you to know that that is not true. And then like you override the programming in your brain to go on that spiral. But one of— I went to a conference a couple of years ago called Powerhouse Women in Arizona, and Rachel Luna spoke. I believe her Instagram handle is Girl Confident. And she said fear with. She's like, and I don't know why, you know how like someone could say something a million times in a different, all the different arenas and spaces and whatever. And then you just hear it that one time. And it was like, for me. And she was explaining like, you never fear less, you fear with. And as somebody whose whole like shtick or stick or whatever, I don't know how to say the word. Is wicked fearless. I was like, oh my God, that's so good. Because it was like the perfect way to describe it. It's really fear with— it's being able to do the ballet dance and go toe to toe with your fears. But also realize that sometimes you're putting yourself in these situations to elicit the feeling so that you can kind of walk through it and like learn about yourself. And I think of that whenever I go to speak on a stage, or do something that's outside my comfort zone. I'm like, I'm putting myself in this situation and it's going to elicit these feelings, which for like our archaic brain a lot of times feels like fight or flight. I talk about this in the room at SoulCycle a lot when we're like pushing really hard, we're doing something like, I am actively an active participant in doing this to myself. So like I'm in control here, but our brain is like, run, hide. Oh my God, tiger, lion. So it's really about overriding that archaic programming in our brain and be like, I am doing this. It is going to create this feeling in me so that I can learn from it and I can walk through it. And every time I do this, it's always going to feel a little less scary, a little less flighty, a little less, you know, insert adjective here, whatever that goal is you're trying to achieve, um, depending on what you're doing, be it physical or stages or podcasts or starting that thing or applying for that job or going to that interview, like whatever it is. That kind of squeeze you from your center.

Yeah, I love that. Courage, bravery, being fearless. Like, none of it is actually about the absence of fear or the absence of those sensations. It's about dancing with them. And like you said, something really interesting is like choosing to put yourself in positions that make you feel the fear, that require you to bring the bravery and the courage online. I mean, it's kind of like like you said, for the archaic brain, for the ego, it's sort of like for the limbic brain, it's like fucked up.

It's like, why are you doing this? Yeah, like, why protect us? Right? And I talk about that with like the whole thing of our brain not catching up to where we are in this crazy, socially charged society that we're in. That's like, you know, texting, typing, scrolling, swiping all day, all the time. It's like our brain just hasn't really caught up. So, you know, gone are the days where we're running from like lions and tigers and bears, saber-toothed tigers, whatever. Now our brain is constantly trying to protect us in the ego sense of like, don't do that because someone might say something. Don't do that. What if you get hurt? And by hurt, yes, your brain does take you— like, try to keep you physically safe and sound. But I think now it's really in the world we're living in, keeping us mentally safe and sound and protecting our ego from like our feelings getting hurt or anything like that.

Yeah, totally. So you, you, you mentioned something about confidence earlier, which kind of like ties in nicely with what we're talking about, doing these things that require your courage, that require you to feel fear and lean in anyways, because I think that's part of the journey towards building confidence sometimes is doing the things that you're scared of or that intimidate you and showing up and realizing, oh my God, like I, I didn't die. Like I did it. Like I actually am okay. So in your mind, where do you think that confidence comes from? Like, how do we cultivate it? And another question that I have that I think is just interesting to ponder for, you know, philosophical purposes is like, why do we all want more confidence? Because everybody, everybody wants more confidence, right? It's like money. It's like, why wouldn't you? You know, like if you could have more, like maybe you have enough, maybe you have a lot, but like if you could have more, like, why wouldn't you? Why do we all want more confidence? And does it actually make our life better? The way that we think it will. Yeah, let's just— let's talk about confidence.

Yeah, that's an interesting thing to noodle on for sure. And I agree with you. It's kind of like that currency that you really— you can't get enough of. And maybe that's because of like the parlay dance kind of thing between losing it and getting it and losing it and getting it and putting yourself out there. And then like, you know, just like I kind of think of it like, have you ever seen like the jump rope, like double dutch? Like, oh, when am I going to go? When am I going to go? That's kind of what that feels like to me. But where confidence comes from, I think, is again, it's, it's not a passive thing. It's a very action item, like tangible, tactical thing. And it comes from life experience, just straight up life experience. The more you've experienced in your life in different situations, when you're called to it for any other reason or called up from it or put in those situations, I think that's really where your confidence comes in. Think of like, I always think of the 10,000-hour rule. Like, I step in a room at SoulCycle, I don't feel anything anymore. 10 years ago almost, or 9 years ago, I guess, I was so nervous, like poop your pants nervous, like shake, like so scared, like felt those feelings. And now it's like the roof could blow off, the sound could go out, my mic could go out, I feel nothing. It's like because it's so conditioned in your body. And I think that's like really what the confidence comes from. It's just like over and over again, these life experiences that you're conditioned to, that you then are not like scared of, or you just have that ability. I think also you retain different abilities or you learn different abilities and then you— or skill sets, and then you feel good about it. But the second part of that is like, well, I always want more. How do I get more? I think that has to do with when we're in those situations that don't feel so good or don't go the way we want them to or whatever. So it's kind of like a visual. I'm a very visual person, so I feel like— have you seen Monsters, Inc.? You know, like the things where like the batteries get low and then they— it's kind of messed up that they had to go scare kids to get the batteries to be green, whatever. But think about it like that, like your confidence battery. You know, you ask someone out and say no, or you go on those dates or you date the guy for 6 months and it doesn't work out and you're like, zoom, and then it's like, okay, I gotta go figure it out again. And it's so— I think it's like you could think you have a ton of confidence in one area, but then in another area you might not. Or you could think you don't have any in one area, but then you do something that might replenish it in another area. So I think it's like constantly, um, ebbing and flowing. I don't think you can ever be one vibrational level of confidence. I think Yes, you can be really secure and grounded in who you are and your self-worth, and that's like all that inner work. But I think through the outside, like, circumstances, we're always going to feel a little bit seesaw-y when it comes to confidence overall.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. I actually— I've never really thought of it in that way of like having to replenish, or, or even, uh, maybe something doesn't go necessarily wrong or bad, but if you want to get to that like next level love your most confident self, it's again going out to scare the kids, which is, you know, getting on a stage or giving a speech or like doing something that actually scares you, right, is the thing that's going to then like give you more of that, that confidence battery or more of that energy.

For sure.

Yeah, totally resonate with that. Yeah. Okay. So we got to, we got to talk about SoulCycle a little bit. You've been piecing it in there here and there for us. So yeah. You get fired from this job in Hollywood. You have a love for these, like, fitness spaces, the community element of it. Your friends are kind of like, why wouldn't you work in something that has to do with that?

You're so good at it.

You're obsessed with it. You love it. It's your lifestyle. It's your personality. All the things. How did you— how did you, like, come across SoulCycle in general and then decide, I'm going to be an instructor, not just an instructor, but like one of the best SoulCycle instructors in the country. And maybe you didn't set out with that goal. But tell us about how that unfolded.

Yeah, and thank you. I definitely received that. It's really wild. I never joined SoulCycle and wanted to be an instructor. So I had, you know, I don't know, it's just this like 20-somethings At the time, barely social media even existed. I mean, we were just using Lo-Fi as a one-picture filter on Instagram at the time, you know, no stories, no nothing. So really none of that existed. And for me at the time, it was like Boutique Fitness was this rocket ship and SoulCycle was this rocket ship. And having, you know, worked a little bit at the front desk at Equinox as another one of my odd jobs or whatever, and, you know, I had taken some classes with some friends at the time, gone to different people. I just wanted on this rocket ship. I really wanted a rocket ship. Actually, I went on tons of interviews to try to work at Lululemon, and I could not get hired for my life at Lululemon. Wow. Yeah, it's so wild. I like talk about the people now, and I just— I don't know. And then maybe I just like wasn't— and then I'm like, what? Maybe I wasn't all I was like. Maybe I was a bad person at the time. Like, maybe I was whatever. And that's like, you know, a whole nother thing. But so I went on a bunch of interviews for SoulCycle. I did a shadow day at Beverly Hills studio, and I was, you know, trying to be an assistant studio manager at the time. Thought I got the job, didn't get the job. Went back and worked like for 5 months at an ad agency, got let go again. Like, just like was not finding my stride. I hit this moment where I was like, I'm done with LA, I've done it all, I'm over it, I'm over everything. Like, I'm going back home. And At the time, I looked online one more time and there was an opening for an assistant studio manager in Boston. I applied for it. They call me, hey, the Boston job isn't open, but we have one in LA if you want to try for it again. And at this point, I'm just like, I've been on like 6 interviews, a shadow day with you people, like, what the fuck? Like, come on. Like, you either know you want me or you don't. And that's kind of how I went into my interview, honestly. And I remember my 2 friends at the time who, like, you know, became friends of mine and worked with for years. I was kind of just like I was like, are we doing this or what? Like, do I need to bleed? Um, so that's when I got hired at the West Hollywood studio. I was assistant studio manager there and then moved to Culver City. We opened that, that was the West Coast headquarters. And honestly, I didn't really have the intention of being an instructor. It was other people seeing it in me that gave me kind of, I call it like the God nod, the knock., and I was riding on the podium for different master instructors and senior instructors at the time, which is, you know, what I do now is you put someone else that can demo the class while you run around on the floor and like, you know, do all the goodness. And people kept being like, why don't you do it? Why don't you do it? Why don't you do it? And you know, I was never even fully invested. I remember I was cleaning out, this was years later, so not to get too much on a tangent, I was cleaning out a drawer and I was actually still going on like interviews. Up till when I went on my audition for SoulCycle, even though I was so happy at SoulCycle, it was like I was never fully was like, is this it? Um, the last interview I went on was actually to be the EA for, um, Nasty Gal, and I'm blanking on her name.

Yeah, Sophia Amoruso.

Yeah, yeah. Like, went into Nasty Gal, came down to meet another girl, and I was very frank that, you know, I wanted to be an EA, and I— but I didn't want it to be like a career. I'd be in— I'm happy to be in the role for a certain number of years, but like, there had to be growth, there had to be something on the high for me. And they were really looking for a career EA. Like, they wanted somebody— she was like, you know, Sophia doesn't want change. Change is not fun when you're CEO, whatever. And I was like, okay. So I never got that job. And I oftentimes I'm like, wow, if I got that, would that have derailed the path that then I went on when I—

well, and it's interesting, it's interesting too for anyone who doesn't know the Nasty Gal story of, you know, Sophia Amoruso and how crazy. Her brand skyrocketed and, you know, went huge into the market. And then there was a lot of scandal and the kind of downfall of Nasty Gal. And then ultimately I think they sold it. But yeah, it would have been totally like things would have been different.

So all that to say, I, you know, go on the audition for SoulCycle, I make it through, I go to New York for a few months, go through all the training and whatever, and They were very candid when I left LA. They said, we do not have positions in LA open. So if you go do this, you're not coming back to LA. And I was like, cool, whatever. I was so hell-bent. I had this, like I said, this blind faith. I was all in on this thing. It sounds crazy. It sounds psychotic as I'm saying it. And I went in and they gave me 3 different markets to choose from, Houston, Philly, and Boston. And I had a conversation with my dad. He's like, listen, if you go to these other markets, you have nobody. If you come to Boston, we're an hour away. Better the devil you know than the devil you I don't know. And, you know, that was 8 years ago. So I've been teaching here, doing soul and fitness and events and beyond the bike and all the things. And, you know, here we are 8 years later.

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What turned out exactly how it was supposed to— did you meet your husband in Boston?

Yeah, I actually met him at SoulCycle, so I don't know.

Oh my God, I knew, I knew I needed to ask about this because I'm like, I feel like as we're talking about things working out the way that they're supposed to and getting sent to Boston?

Okay, so I was— so I think this was November 2016. So I came to Boston September 2016. I was brand new instructor. So when you're newer, you don't get like the best of the best classes all the time or whatever. But being new at the time, we have these rides called Turkey Burns, and they're always like a 90-minute class on Thanksgiving or whatever. And I wasn't like cool enough or senior enough at the time to get a 90-minute class. I just had like one class at 11 AM or You know, whatever the leftovers were. And Scott came into class. I had no idea who he was. He was wearing a sweatshirt with like the hood up, Rocky style. And I think he was on like bike 32 or 33. Years later, I wrote him a card and I like printed out my classroom and circled the bike. And I was like, can you imagine if you never showed up on this bike or whatever? Aw, we're like the third song in and the shirt says Vail, which is very, you know, crazy and serendipitous cuz that's like one of our favorite places. We, joke, half kiddingly, half not, about moving there. And, you know, we're 3 songs in, this kid still got his hood up. And I'm like, Dale, turn it up. And so later on, he's like, you know, I felt the whole room shrink around me. I felt emasculated. I was so hungover from going out with my high school friends at Cleary's the night before. If you're Boston, you know, that's a big Boston bar for Weston High School or whatever. And so doesn't see me, doesn't talk to me, doesn't really go back to SoulCycle. So I am not good on the ROI for SoulCycle at this point. Um, and then in February, it was like the 13th of February or something, 12th or 13th, he is in back of me or in front of me at Juice Press, and I'm like, hey, oh my gosh, Sean, how are you? And he's like, my name's Scott, but you got the S right. And I was like, cool, like, let me just, you know, run out into the street. Um, he's like, hey, you want to go like on a date tomorrow or whatever? And I was like, well, tomorrow's Valentine's Day, so that's like a lot of pressure, but I'm not doing anything the next night, so 'Let's try it out.' So we went on that date, and like, that was kind of history.

So he felt emasculated, but he also— he was into you, but he was also into it.

So like, yeah, he's like, 'The room shrunk around me.' I was like, 'I was like, you're being dramatic.' You also had a sweatshirt with the hood up until the third song, and it looked like you were dogging it. So That's what you get. You had to call him out. You had to call him out. I love it. I love it. That's how that worked out. So, yeah, it's pretty wild how, you know, I've never really thought about that being part of my quote unquote destiny, but in a lot of ways, I guess it really is.

Yeah, I know. It's so fun to like kind of connect the dots and look back on if certain things had worked out that you wanted so badly. There's that saying of like, thank God that I didn't get all the things that I thought that I wanted. Yeah. And sometimes you really realize like, yeah, it's so true because something better, something better was there, was in there for you, was in the rafters or was it different and waiting for you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you obviously then got really good at this like SoulCycle and like being an instructor and kind of, you know, gaining your own notoriety in that space. So I want to ask you about like mastering your craft often rising to the top of your industry, as it applies to anyone who's a young professional or otherwise that just wants to become really great at the thing that they're doing, or the— if they're building a business, let's say there's something that they're really passionate about and they want to master their craft and, and really rise to the top of their industry. What are some of the qualities that you think are required in order to do that.

Yeah, you know, I was just talking on a podcast with a girlfriend of mine, Tori. It's called Host by Tori Winders. And, um, because we were really talking about, you know, her whole podcast about sober curiosity and things like that. I think that I was always straddling two different lives for a long time. I was like super party girl, super wellness girl. And they would— it's like I've never related to a meme more in my life than like, I hope this green juice like cancels out all the things I did to myself over the weekend. Like, that was literally my life. And it was up until I got to Boston and it was just like really not working anymore. Like, I was really tired of my own shit of like working 6 days a week, grinding, teaching, literally 16, 18, 20. I remember there was a week I taught 22 classes in a week teaching triples, quads every day, which I don't— I do not condone, I do not suggest. But so much has changed over, you know, all these years. Um, it's no longer like that. But at the time, it was like saying yes to every sub, saying yes to everything constantly. Like, a lot of brand new instructors will come to me and be like, well, I'm so torn up about that class I taught. And I'm like, well, how many classes are you teaching a week? They're like, Well, you know, like 4. And I was like, I was teaching 4 a day. I didn't even have time to tear myself apart or wonder what could have been. I was on to the next one. I was like eating a sandwich on the way to the next one. And like, what's done is done. So there was a lot of like baptized by fire type of way of like, I didn't even have time to think about what I was doing. I just had to execute and execute and execute. And there was no peeling it back. You just kind of like learned in, in in it, in the chaos of it all. And I think that over time, you know, the 10,000-hour rule, when you do something so many times, you get very comfortable in what you're doing. You get very conditioned, not only physically but mentally primed for what the class requires and then how to start changing it, how to play with music. You know, I downplay my ability with music a lot of times because I don't even think about it because it's such a blessing in my world. I was in all the bands, played all the instruments, went to school for music. I hear things so much differently, I think, than people do. And that's like a God-given gift. And I sometimes forget that, take it for granted because it's so innate in me. But music, all these things you learn along the way and you start to figure out who you are, what your voice is, what you stand for, all that. But all that to say, I think what really separates you and you really start to become a master at your craft. And I don't know if people are gonna love this, but it's sacrifice. I said no to— I— whether, whether I had— whether forcefully or not, I couldn't go out to the parties, I couldn't go out to the birthdays, I couldn't go out to the drinks because I was teaching and I had to be up the next day at 8 AM or 7 AM or 6 AM or 5:30 AM. So sometimes it was tough. I lost a lot of friends. There were friends that only wanted to party, I'd ask lunch, dinner, coffee, snack. Nope. Want to go out on Friday though? Yeah. And I'm like, I can't freaking go out Friday. I've told you this a million times. Lost lots of friends. There was a lot of shedding in those relationships and things like that. People don't tell you it's lonely as hell. It's super lonely. And you have to find mentorship or seek out other people who are trying to do the same thing, who quote unquote get it, because it is lonely. And even when you're in it, it's lonely. And it's a lot of sacrifice. It's going early, it's staying late, it's reading books that are going to add to your craft. And we call them personal development books, but all sorts of books could be religion or whatever, whatever interests you that's going to kind of pour back into your cup. I mean, right now on my desk, I have The War of Art, Holy Moments, Courage Over Confidence, Bouncing Back, Art of Bouncing Back by my friend Coach Dar. Like, constantly being a seeker of— I would say being a seeker of this this shit and really being on that school of life within your craft of like, how do I get better? And staying curious about that. But I think a lot of it, um, it's not sexy, it's not cute, but it's, it's sacrifice, which, yeah, I know that people don't want to hear because we love that big shiny red easy button, but it really, that's, that's what sets you apart, right? You always hear, I think there's like a saying that's like hustle trumps talent when talent doesn't hustle type of thing. And I know in a world that we're trying to like pull back from hustle culture and like harmony over hustle, but I think you have to have a little bit of like, otherwise.

Yeah, I don't know.

I know.

I think it's, it's interesting to be in the spaces that we are in, which are, you know, there's of course a huge focus on personal development and wellness and And as we talked about earlier, like there's been such a shift in not only L.A. but in the world where it's about like balance and, you know, wellness and fill your cup and go to the sauna and do an ice bath and relax and disconnect and get off social. And like, that wasn't really there when we were, you know, graduating from college and going out and trying to seek our careers or whatever.

Yeah, but all the shit that's like trending out, like going to therapy, talking to people, being in your feelings, like that was not trendy. All of a sudden it's super trendy, almost to the point where it's like the pendulum has almost swung too far. Like, I don't even know everything, for Christ's sake. Like, so it's, it's tough. I don't know.

Yeah, I think it's hard to talk about this idea of like grit and hustle and sacrifice in our spaces is what I was going to say of like, you know, wellness and personal development because of how hard it swung. And sometimes it's maybe taken the wrong way or people don't have the ability to hold the duality of like, yes, and it's not like, you know, hustle your face off and sacrifice everything or else you're going to be a nobody and you won't master your craft and you won't be different, you won't stand out and you won't rise to the top or, you know, do everything slowly and with balance and in your best feminine energy of relaxing and restoring and receiving. It's like, Yes. And we can work on combining them where they make sense in our lives to help us be healthy, but also understand, like, it's since the dawn of time, like, hard work has been required in order to get the places that you want to go.

Yeah, I, I think I like struggle in that a little bit too, as like a coach and beyond, because I call it D1 spirit. Like I've always been in a way a D1 athlete. I still am an elite athlete. And so athlete culture, you know, is a little different. Like, you know, I walk to class and I'm listening to Eric Thompson and like all these Inky Johnson and all these people, David Goggins, like screaming at me. I respond to that level of like grit because I have that athletic D1, like that's what I respond well to. But it is such like, I don't know, it's like this balance beam of like, it's really challenging. I find the space, it's tough. I don't know, but I respond in that because I love that. But that's also maybe my character, who I am, how I've grown up, how I have always been since I can remember, this athlete. Um, so I find the only place that it doesn't get murky is kind of athlete culture. Um, but yeah, I think, you know, I wrote down in an old notebook, it's like, the harder you work, the harder you have to rest, or like, the more to like the level of elite, like you work, that's the level you have to rest. And I always loved that because it was such a great way to look at it. If I'm working this much, I have to rest harder and I have to not feel bad for it. If I'm working harder than everybody else around me, then I have to rest harder than everybody else around me.

So yeah, I know, I totally agree. I think it's a— there's a fine line and it's this sort of like balance that we're trying to find. But balance is a hard word as it is of like, what does that even mean? And I think for me, I had to make a distinction in my own head of balance not meaning 50/50. Balance, just meaning like a mix. And so some days I'm going to be 20% on the rest and 80% on the hustle, and other days it's going to be inverse or some other variation of that. But that is balance. I think a lot of people are waiting to feel like it's, oh, I worked hard and now I rested hard. And, and it's like sometimes there's like seasons where it's like, no, you're just fucking working hard. And then you're like, all right, let's chill or, you know, let's restore in some way. And so also, you know, having the freedom of in your— within your own mind of how you think things need to be to be able to reimagine like what does balance look like for me?

Yeah, I majorly struggle with that in particular of like the, the, the give and flow of like it not having to look a certain way. Right. And I think I kind of played with that at the beginning of the year. Like I didn't launch any programs, you know, I say didn't launch anything. Just publish a journal and whatever. Still the Psycho D1 spirit of hustle. But I wasn't pushing. I felt like for years I had been just pushing and pushing through pandemic, through whatever, through whatever to try to elevate. And the fitness industry got absolutely demolished, decimated, and trying to get it to where it was and chasing this holographic carrot that never really existed, or if it had existed, was it something totally different going into the culture climate that we are now. So I, I really just existed within kind of myself, and I didn't try to like push so hard outside of what I was doing necessarily. Didn't have to have 80,000 things going at once. And it was very hard to kind of like sit back into it a little. That was challenging for me. And I related a lot of times when I talk about it, like when you're 16 years old and you learn how to drive on the highway, you're like grabbing the steering wheel so tight, like you're white-knuckling it. And then when you're like 25 driving on the highway, you could be going the same speed, but like, you know, you're chilling, you're listening to music, you're like—

you're putting lip gloss on.

Yeah, you're doing like 90,000 things, but you're still going the same speed. So I think it was just like trying to feel what it feels like to like not have to be like gripping so tight. But again, it's, it's like that duality of inflow of it all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think it's also helpful to be able to look at people that have achieved a lot in their lives or have gotten to a certain place that's aspirational and to recognize we're all like, is this good enough? Should I be pushing harder? Should I pull back? Like, should my focus be to like grind, grind, grind, or should I really be in that like Oh, look, I don't want to white-knuckle it so hard. Like, let's be in the flow. Like, nobody else is really like knowing what the fuck is going on anyway. So I think that's also just like generally helpful.

Yeah, I think the major, major, major source of anxiety and worry and all of it is honestly Instagram, which stinks because it can be such a great place and you can connect and meet so many people and help so many people and serve and inspire in so many ways. But it also serves as a mirror for all the things that you're not, right? Oh, her business looks like this. Oh, her website looks like this. She's doing this. And how does she have 100,000 views on a workout video and I only have this many? Or what? It's a constant mirror for everything you're not. And that can be so challenging to show up to every day feeling a little lack thereof just because it's being presented every day to you. I always wonder, like, what would my business— what would our lives look like if we didn't open the app every day and wonder, like, have everybody else's lives on display for all the things that we are not? Um, I think it's a major source of, like, causing that strife for people now more so than ever in all the facets of our lives.

Yeah, well, and there's a lot of people in my audience that are business owners, content creators, influencers. Like, we're using the online space for business in some way, or, you know, creating communities or building personal brands or whatever. So I know this is like really relevant to them. I'm just curious about like your experience with it. Is there anything that you've learned or heard or tried that has helped you still show up to be able to support and grow your business and your brand, um, but to also kind of like separate.

Yeah, the separation is tough. I definitely don't have that mastered. Um, I did create a like personal private type of like— it's not private, but it's like another Instagram for me where I just cultivate my feed with things I want to see because I think when I was growing my following and everything like that, it was so full of like writers and people and I followed everybody back and I wanted it to be very like, you know, all the things. But what happened was I don't see anything anymore. I don't see anything I want to see. I just see like it's like an overinflux of everything. So I did that and that's kind of cool. Makes me happy. I follow like all these like quotes and things like that. So it's almost this scroll of like, what do I need today? Not what is everybody else doing? What do I need today? That's been a cool little— like, I wouldn't call it a pet project, but I have to constantly remind myself, like, you are you and that is your superpower. Like, people want to see you. They want to talk to you. They want your support. They want your vibe. They want your energy. And that is like a constant reminder, affirmation, mantra that I feel like myself and maybe other people out there have to say over and over again, because we're constantly, constantly being rocked from our center and our source with all that we see, right? Like the mirror for everything we're not. But I also think it can serve as a mirror for what I can be. And because someone else is doing it, that's proof I can be doing it too, and be doing it in my own special way that differentiates me from everybody else. Like, your differences are your destiny.. And I have to believe that I have to be rooted in that there's a purpose, there's a higher power, there's a bigger, bigger play here in the game, um, or a divine play. And I really just have to have faith in that, a lot of faith over here in this end lately. And knowing that when I'm relying on my own strength or when I'm trying to do it all and bear it all and take it all myself, that, you know, I'm making it about me when it's about other people. And additionally, I'm not relying on my higher power. For me, that's God. That's bigger than this. I'm trying to carry it all myself. Little old me down here. It's not going to work.

Yeah. Yeah. So true. I talk about that all the time of really like understanding that there's— you can set some of it down, you can hand some of it over, you can surrender some of the weight and say, like, here, God, I'm doing what I can, but like, there's a piece of this that I can't carry anymore, so I'm going to trust that you're going to carry it with me for me.

Yeah, I think that I wasn't— I was like, I— there was just times where I was just relying on my own strength, and I just— it, it never worked. And even just saying that, you could feel like, I don't have to Oh, like, it doesn't have to all be me all the time. Like, I have a Post-it right now on my desk that says, to get too worried about any one thing is to forget to have faith.

Hmm. Yeah, I love that.

I have those all over my room. Reminder, reminder, reminder, tripwire. I call them like tactical tripwires all over the place. Like, stop it. On my fridge, I have two Post-it notes that one of my mentors wrote: love over fear. So on the fridge, it literally says, love over fear. Choose love over fear. Stuff like that all over your room, like whatever you need to do to constantly reroute your brain. Because like we were saying before with that archaic brain, it always wants to future trip to the worst case scenario. Protect, protect, protect. Safe, safe, safe. So even in my journal I published at the bottom, I created my own little thing that says, what's the best outcome that could happen for today? Because if we're going to energetically use up this life source in us, Why would I project the bad when I can just as easily get creative about the good? Like, worry is a misuse of our imagination. So yeah, even saying that, it's like almost you have to be like delusional a little bit, but it works in a weird, you know, metaphysical, spiritual way.

Yeah, it's so true. Worry is a misuse of our imagination. You're, you're using your imagination to conjure up things that haven't happened or things that people haven't said or scenarios that are not real. And you could do the exact same thing by thinking about— it's like the what-if game. We always play what-if for the bad. It's like, but what if this happens? And what if that happens? And it's remembering you can play what-if in the opposite direction.

Exactly.

You can take that ball and run it down the field in the other way of like, and what if? What if?

Fine. What if it turns out better? I have that posted in my bathroom. Fear's greatest song is what Yeah, like, that's what I mean. They're all over the place in my house. And maybe it seems a little crazy. It looks kind of like a, like, I don't know, preschool studio or something with colors and posters all over the walls. But it's like, it's real. It's whatever you need to do to keep you in that, that mental place that feels a little bit better. And it's always— I call it like mental parkour, like parkour, mental agility. It's constantly, you know, that yes and jumping around and And okay, well, why, why not? Why can't I get the touchdown? Or like you said, why can't we run the ball completely different way? Or what if it all works out even better than I could have ever imagined? Like, my brain can't even fathom— my human brain can't even fathom how awesome this is going to turn out. Yeah, what if then? It's kind of cool to think about.

It is very cool to think about. And I think it's just helpful for everyone listening to remember that, like, we all need reminders. Like, it's normal that you're going to default into fear, you're going to default into worst-case scenario. And those things happen to all of us naturally all the time. And so whatever that looks like for you, having those reminders, whether you set them— I know people that set alarms on their phone for a couple of times a day that remind them of things like that, or in your case, having the sticky notes around your room or whatever. But like, really remembering that we, we have some agency to be able to help ourselves in the the setbacks of, you know, being a human.

I think also one thing is like asking for help is such a hard thing. And I don't mean help, like asking for help, you know, we're going back to like, oh, it has to be bigger than it is. It literally— I know when I feel like shit or I feel really down, I call a friend or send a friend a voice note and maybe it's like faking it till you make it type of thing. But I just check in on them and I'm like, how are you? You know, I'm thinking of you. I saw the baby online or whatever it is. And I'd say like 9 times out of 10, they message me back and they're like, I am having the literally shittiest day of my life. And this meant the world to me. And it's kind of this like paying it forward. And people are like, well, how do you do that when you're in such a shitty place yourself? And I'm like, I always say like, that what's personal is universal. If I'm feeling this way, I know someone I love and care about, one of my quote unquote strong fans, probably feels the same way, even though it looks differently on Instagram. So I'm just going to do it in my moment of like, weakness, if you will, weakness or strong. I don't know, you could label it how you want, you know, words, words are powerful. But I guarantee that, you know, when I'm not feeling strong, I try to send messages like that, because I think that it will come back to you. It will come back to you tenfold when you might need it to. I have friends that, you know, I have one friend, Ryan, he teaches in Chicago, we have this little text we just send to each other that's just like, today's not the day. And it just means that, like, I'm having a really hard day. It's really crazy. And like, I'm in it with you. And he'll like probably text me back or I'll text him back, yo, like, today is not the day. Or like, you know, not today, Satan. Or, you know, like the t-shirt or whatever. Just like that vibe. Sometimes it's knowing that you're not kind of in the trenches alone and that it's very much this human experience that other people around you are having, even though it's glossed over with the filters and the videos and whatever., but that we're very much all in it together. So yeah, that's really nice to know.

Yeah. What's personal is universal. I love this conversation so much. Thanks for coming on, Mads. So, so good. We covered so much ground. Thanks for sharing your story and all of your wisdom. Let everyone know where to find you on Instagram. And you've got the podcast, obviously, Wicked Fearless. But tell them what's going on in your world and where they can hang out with you.

Yeah. So I feel like it's like I'm like, oh my God, Instagram is so bad for you.

And come follow me.

Come on. So I would say like goes down in the DM like the song, but @nadztadz, N-A-D-D-Z-T-A-D-D-Z. I also have TikTok under that name, but I struggle with TikTok because I feel like my tiny heart can't handle all the negativity. It's really hard for me. I would say you like eat through your eyes and your ears just as much as your mouth. So So something to think about. That's really where you can find me. I obviously have a website, all that stuff, different programs. I'm relaunching Wicked Fearless, which is my 12-week confidence coaching program in the fall, things like that. But honestly, I think it really does all kind of go down on Instagram. So I always say if you listen to this and there was a golden nugget or a takeaway or something that really just like resonated with you, tag myself and Sam in it because there's nothing we love more than when we press press publish on our podcast and we know that they're reaching people. Whether you're walking your dog or you're on your run, or maybe you're taking a drive to the beach or doing something for you, and this happens to be on that journey for you. That's always really cool to, to see. And, you know, we get to converse with you and connect, and that's really what this is all about, that ripple effect, creating that.

So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you guys enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot, share it to your stories. Let us know what you're doing while you're listening and what you enjoyed about it. We appreciate it so, so much. We love being able to see how and where, what corners of the world it's reaching. So thank you so much for your time today, Mads. It was so much fun having this conversation. Make sure you guys go give her a follow and we will talk to you next week.

Bye.