Fusing Astrology and Psychology w/ Debra Silverman

Welcome back to the podcast, you guys. I am so excited for today's episode. I have an epic guest to share with you. I had Deborah Silverman on the show, which was such an honor. You'll learn a little bit more about how I discovered Deborah once we get into the episode, but she is one of the true OG astrologers. She's been doing this work for over 40 years, so she has so much wisdom to share with us. A little bit about Deborah and her background: when she was just 20 years old, she actually met an astrologer who completely blew her mind and changed her world forever. And that was when she was officially introduced to the world of astrology. And it was in that moment that she really realized that the stars in her own world had aligned perfectly just right for her to have that interaction and find her own life's purpose. So Deborah went on to deeply study the mind and body, earning a bachelor's degree in psychology and dance from York University, and then a master's degree in clinical psychology from Antioch University. Over the past 40 years of professional experience and private practice, she's specialized in helping thousands of individuals achieve emotional health and wisdom based on their unique personality and the four elements: water, air, earth, and fire. Her work with families, individuals, and couples has her standing out in a sea of therapies and coaches. Deborah's astrology approach is not a one-size-fits-all fits all. She has developed a unique psychological spiritual model combining her expertise in esoteric or soul-centered astrology with her extensive education in the practical realm of psychology. So to help those going through major life changes, um, and especially in times of crisis, she uses this fusion of astrology and psychology. She custom designs her therapeutic approach to each individual and uses fusion as a magical healing combination. I cannot wait for you guys to listen to this episode. We talk about so much, um, some astrological events that are forecasted for 2022, when you can expect to feel the conversation around COVID and the virus start to dwindle a bit and have that positive energy really come back in, which is super exciting. We also talk about lots of different energies and the missing elements in our chart and some of my background in life experience and how that relates to what's showing up in my chart. So there's so much to be learned here, so much self-awareness, so much wisdom. I cannot wait for you to listen to this episode. If you want to connect with Deborah, just take a look at the show notes down below. We have all of her links linked there below for you. I'm so excited for you to dive in. Without further ado, let's welcome Deborah to the show. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly. Entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shift happen. Well, I'm super excited to have you on the show today, Deborah. As I was telling you, it's such a dream to have you here. I couldn't even believe that it was really you when they emailed me saying that we had the opportunity to have you on the show. I was like, the real Deborah Silverman? No way. And I, I thought I would share with you just a little story about how I actually found you and your work. It was through Rachel Braythen, who I know that you know and you work with. For the audience, you guys may know her as Yoga Girl. And I've talked about her a lot because she was a really big catalyst in my whole journey into personal growth and self-development. Her podcast show was the first one that I ever listened to. It was kind of the thing that really kickstarted my entire journey and led me to where I am now, which is having this whole business built around the foundations and everything that I learned that helped me change my life. So I first heard you, Debra, on her show. And that's how I got connected with you and your work and started learning more about astrology through you. So it's super serendipitous to like have you here on the show today. And I'm just so, so excited and grateful. So welcome to the show, Debra.

Thank you so much. Honored to be here.

I'm so excited to chat with you. And it feels, it feels like such an honor that you like have my birth chart in front of you and that we're going to be able to look at it. Like, I'm So, so excited about that. But before we get into some of the stuff that maybe you see coming up in my chart, I want to make sure that we're sharing with the audience, you know, some of the stuff that I know you're super passionate about, which is really this fusion of astrology and psychology and how they work so well together. And you obviously have lots of experience in, in both areas, so I'd love for you to share just a little bit about that part of your work, fusing the esoteric with the more kind of tangible, practical. I know that's what a lot of my audience loves is, you know, taking the mystical and mixing it with the practical and finding ways to really root that into our lives and, and grow from there. So tell us about this, this mix of astrology and psychology that you've adopted.

It's so funny, because I was just recently talking about how going— I was in graduate school studying clinical psychology. And I just started, I was probably in my early 20s. And I went in to tell the supervisor that I wanted to do a project with psychology and astrology. And she was like, What'd you say? What are you combining? And I was like, well, I'd love to do readings and understand the psychology of people based on their chart and then support them. And she was like, that is like the weird— like, she completely didn't track. And it was a stretch at that time, as you can imagine, earlier before, because now this is what's so exciting about the era you guys are growing up in, is astrology is acceptable. When, when I grew up, it was absolutely a parlor trick. Like, oh my God, you don't believe— you didn't drink the Kool-Aid, did you? And now if you look at Instagram, I don't know if it's my imagination, but there's a million astrologers on Instagram and they're everywhere. So the combination of the two became very obvious to me when clients would come in. I was in supervision and they would come in for their first session for therapy and they would start telling me everything that was wrong with them. And I'd be looking at them and I, I had been studying astrology deeply by that point already. And I was like, wait a minute, if I listen to your point of view, we're going to go nowhere quick. Like, I'm gonna have to— let me just tell you first. This is what I decided. Let me first tell you what I see. Like, let me look at your chart and describe your character and then tell me your problem. So for example, if somebody had a bad case of Virgo, for example, which is something that I just was looking at your chart that you have, which is the critic you know, the personality type who always thinks they should be different because they're not good enough. And they start telling me everything wrong, and I'm looking at Virgo, and I'm looking, I'm like, hold on. And I make a rule of this, I always say to a Virgo, I'm not interested in your opinion because you're just, you're always mean. Like, you said the meanest things about yourself. I'm not going to listen to you. Let me describe for you. You're organized, you're systemized, you're pretty, you take care of things. And to you, it's never enough. To us, we're like, wow, So I'm not interested in your critic. And then they'd be like, what? And then I'd reframe it and go, can we talk about kindness? Because you are mean. So I would adjust the human nature and begin to use therapy based on what I saw in the chart, the low road and the high road. And that's essentially what our school's all about. There's the low road of Virgo who criticizes endlessly and feels like they're never good enough. There's the high road of Virgo who is a really dependable servant. That wants to help and be of service to whoever they can. So now what do you want to focus on? The part that didn't take care of the thing that they should have done, or the part that was like completely helpful and took care of everything? So that's the dilemma. And as an astrologer therapist, I'm reframing all the time what the thing you don't like the most about yourself has an inherent upside to it that you can't see. And that's why you come to an astrologer psychologist, is to say, where am I? I've got this whole thing wrong. Like, my husband bugs the shit out of me, or my kids. And I'm like, no, no, no, that's the part of you that you're seeing reflected back to you. Like, let's tell the truth. So I'm very good, and I've trained— there's probably almost 18 astrologers that I've trained who are certified by me over the past 7 years who are equal. Like, you can't get a reading with me anymore, but you can certainly get readings with these women that are absolutely rigorously trained, and they learned how to say this part of you that you're criticizing. So in your case, it's funny because you have a fun factor, like a part that's really not sloppy but genuine and spontaneous and wants to go take risks. Another part of you is like, no, that is not appropriate. You made a list, you made a time, and you got to commit to that. And then the Sag goes, no, I don't want to. And the Virgo, oh yes you do. And that conflict is a perfect example of— you would come in saying, I'm never doing enough, you do your little song, and then I'd say, excuse me, Virgo, sit down. Like, who asked your opinion?

Yeah, this is so, so real. I, I've always felt those two parts of me, like the one side that's really like spontaneous genius and just wants to say, fuck it, and like, go for it and live life and, you know, have fun. And, and, and I felt this a lot in my young adult life, as especially when I was in college. Not only, you know, I think it's a time in your life where you really do want to live the most that you can, but then you're also really focused on what do I have to do here though, right? What's the objective? I'm not just here to have fun, like, I have to get stuff done. And so there was that element of it.

And then also with my relationship with food and my body.

I saw that a lot where I would go, fuck it, let's just live and drink everything and eat everything. And then on Monday, I'd be like, no, we said we were going to do this goal and we have to, we have to complete it and we have to do it. And so I was always kind of like fighting those, those two sides of myself. And I, it's so funny that you, the first thing that you brought up was the Virgo energy because that was one thing that I really wanted to ask you about because I feel I don't know, having it be my rising sign, sometimes I'm kind of like, I mean, I understand like the structure and the organization, like that's totally me, especially in work, but I haven't fully understood maybe where that shows up for me in my life so much, the Virgo energy. But even just this already, I'm like, yeah, okay. Like I totally feel that.

And the rising sign, which people don't understand, the reason why it's called rising sign or ascendant is it's what you're rising into. It's the highest part of you. It's what you're literally aiming for from the soul's point of view. But the ego, in your case, Sag, is like, oh my God, we are not aiming for organizing, cleaning, and being servant. I'm not doing this. So there's a conflict between your ego, which is a sun sign, and your soul, and the right use of the soul, which is always waiting in the wings. The soul is the part in all of us that wants to grow at all costs. Like, it doesn't even care if you're happy or sad or you're fat or you're thin or you're married. The soul is like a slut for experiences. It'll do anything. It just says, I just want to have every experience. And the ego's like, are you out of your mind? Like, we are not going to be gaining weight because you want to go learn about nutrition. Like, or we're not going to break our hearts in order to learn about love. And the soul's like, oh yeah, anything will go, anything will do, I just want it all. So there's a conflict. In your case, it's stronger because your soul wants purity and your ego wants to play. So you have to really deal with— and I would suggest to you as an astrologer to aim for your rising sign, that you really want to let your soul take over your life. Now, it doesn't mean that Virgo Rising is a very high level, especially you, because you've got a late degree. You're almost at the end of it. So it's a sophisticated version of a being— it's, think Mother Teresa, because she was double Virgo— a being who wants to serve and step over their own ego appetite because they just want to be of value and really give away the gifts they have. And their downside is when they look in the mirror, the critic comes in so hard. Like, Virgo Rising is always the prettiest people, and you're so pretty. Virgo Rising really is the The women like Marilyn Monroe and Elizabeth Taylor and Doris Day and Julie Andrews, all the classical beauties that I grew up with were all Virgo. They're classical beauty, but they don't think so. So they live— their soul wants nothing more than the pure expression of beauty, of service, of giving, of helping. But in their mind's eye, they're not getting it right. It's so sad. Do you have that? Do you have a critic that just says mean things to you?

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Yeah. So this is what astrology is. And you asked the question, the psychology of astrology, which I'm about to do on 2/2/22, February 2nd, 2022. I'm starting a— Shift Network is doing a series on the architecture or the archetypes of psychology based in astrology. So that one is the servant. Virgo's complete desire is to say, I want to serve in a perfect way, but not at the expense of the fun factor, said Sagittarius. Like, you don't want to hurt yourself while you're doing it. So it becomes— you said it, you become aware of the different voices, and then you kind of, kind of like a referee, you start to manage them. And you say, excuse me, Virgo, sit down right now. I don't need to hear your criticism. And so you become the aware ego rather than the unconscious ego, and that's a big difference. I call it the observer. My— I've written a book, and the book is all about turning on the observer so you can look over at yourself and go, oh my God, is that what my little, you know, 17-year-old female self did? Was she criticized the shit out of herself? And then you change the narrative. That's the power of psychology and astrology. You actually learn what your propensity is, the downside of it, the upside of it, and then you just drive the car, you know, your vehicle through life with consciousness, not sleepwalk. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Becoming the observer of your thoughts and of your mind has been something that's like changed my life, really separating my identity from my thoughts, which is I think something that a lot of people are now working on. I think what's really cool is that you've been this work for so long, it must be interesting to kind of see now with the Instagram age and TikTok and all of that, like, you're right, astrology and psychology is being fused and thrown around everywhere. But like, you're the OG, you know, it's like, but is it— I imagine it must be hopeful to you that like, this next generation is like, really taking these tools and sharing them and utilizing them. And it's becoming less taboo. And we're all kind of— I mean, I think everybody knows what it means now to do the work. Work. Whereas, you know, my parents' generation was like, what is that?

Yeah, I am your parents' generation. Let's get clear, okay, honey? Um, because my kids are your age. Um, the trick is— and I know I don't look like I'm 75, but I am— the trick is the energy that's being prepared for this Earth is that we know we're at the end of an era. And no one really— the OG can say that we're at the end, we're going extinct. There's an ending of so much of this reality. So why not look up. I mean, I love that film Don't Look Up. I'm all about yes, please look up. So, so why not look up and say, turn on my observer, disengage me from my attachments to my ego, help me learn how to be of service to what's the larger design. Thank you, astrology. And then see if I can stop getting caught like, like your parents did in me, me, me, me, me. Their whole song was, you know, iPhones and I, me this and me that everything's me. That's what the— our—

my—

I grew up in my generation. I feel terrible about it. We consumed with no consideration of you. We never thought about the future. We never thought the implications of the plastic, what we were doing to the, you know, carbon imprint, what we were doing to the water. And now we are. And so yes, I'm very excited. I see so much activity and activism, and I really believe there's going to be an infiltration of a higher level of consciousness that will arrive on this planet when we're least expecting it.. And those that are astrology students and those that speak the cosmic language won't be scared, but there's gonna be a big influx of intergalactic energy cuz we cannot continue. Yeah. As we are, we've hit the ceiling.

I feel, I, I feel that energy already. I kind of feel that there's a lot of lightworkers and there's a lot of awakening happening on the planet and there's a lot of us. I mean, let's talk about the Age of Aquarius. Aquarius, right? We have moved into the Age of Aquarius. We're literally at the turn of a new age as you're speaking about. I'd love to hear like your kind of esoteric yet practical take on this move from Pisces we were in, right? And now we're moving into Aquarius.

Catch. So the Piscean Age was the age of Jesus. It's a 2,100-year, um, era. And Jesus's whole thing was fish and fishermen. And of course Pisces are two fish. And that was the sacrificed era. That was the era where you say, I'm going to try and be quote unquote normal. We'll all blend in. I don't know if you know Pisces, but their gift is that they can be anywhere. They're chameleons. The Aquarian Age entered in the '60s and everybody went, forget that. Like, are you kidding me? We are not following. We are not wearing bras. We are not going to get married. We are not having kids. You are not telling us what to do. Like, what? That was after 2,100 years of everybody trying to be normal and following the church's rules and living in ashrams and temples and all doing this thing together in unison. Then came the Aquarian era during the '60s, I think is when the shift happened. And it was like radical, uh-uh. And so yes, I'm excited. And yes, the Aquarian age is a disembodied human. Aquarians are futurists. They don't live in the same reality we live in. They don't follow the rules, they're not interested. How perfect is that? Like we— and so yes, you are the generation, you're so lucky. It that is entering or, or becoming the, the kind of like, you know, when you go in the restaurant and there's the host going, where would you like to sit? You're, you're at the very front entrance of the Aquarian age. You're not quite sure what we're going to serve for dinner, but come right in. And we know we're not going to do what we used to do.

Yeah, it feels, it feels very exciting. It feels like we're on the precipice of a new way of living. When you kind of look into the future, whether just through your lens of experience that you have in the world or even through an astrological lens, what do you see maybe changing or shifting the most? Like, what is this kind of new Earth that we're moving towards?

Such a great question. I'd say the new Earth and the new heaven is a government that is organized in a way we can't even conceive of. So the destruction of government is what Pluto in Capricorn has done over the last 10 years. That's what happened during the virus, what we just like all of a sudden realized no one could trust anyone. The words that we thought were accurate, like, this is the way you solve that. Oh really? Everything has been challenged. So we're abandoned with— soon, over time, not long, I'd say the next 5, 6 years, there's going to be a real radical adjustment to the level of this reality around government, around money, around structure, which is a little scary. There's a little— there should be a little bit of trepidation, except that we're being watched. Like, I just want people to know, you don't— you think for one minute the angels and the guides and the higher intelligence and the ETs aren't watching? Watching. Like, how dare we think we're the only thing going on? That's like the funny— first of all, if that's true, I'm really scared. And then, I mean, God forbid we're the only thing going on. And then number two, all you have to do is study astrology for, you know, a short period and you realize it's so perfectly organized. It is so divinely orchestrated. I can't tell you, after 45 years, to your point, of me studying this, the OG— I'm gonna call— no one ever called me that before. Um, that, that really honestly, in no uncertain terms, I know this to be true. Astrology is solid as the sun coming up tomorrow and the moon coming up tonight. Like, there's no doubt that that constellation that you're born under, Sagittarius, is definitely influencing your character. Well, that's the one— when we talk about the future, what's going to be dependable? Why do you want to study astrology? Because this will survive. Will the government as we know it survive? Will your value system survive? Will science as we knew it? Will the economy— will the environment survive? I don't know. But what I can tell you for sure is astrology is the test of time. So study it, become acquainted with the divine design, understand the promise. I always look up because I have a whole bunch of signs above me. Um, be— do your job to understand your function and then jump into it fully, as you would do as Virgo rising, so that you can contribute to this transition. We're It's, you know, I tell what people your age who are thinking of having children, like, you want to really think about this because this next 10 years, it is going to be a radical departure from what we look like now. We're peaking right now. Society's peaking. We've got about 3 or 4 years of like, oh my God, you can drive anywhere you want. You can fly anywhere you want. You can order what you want. They come, the mail comes. There's going to be a radical departure from this reality coming soon. Not that soon. So don't worry. But of course we were dated. This is mean. I cannot live in a society where they throw away all that food and there's people starving down the road. Like, that's unacceptable that there's food shortage in America, anywhere. How could— how can we possibly live this reality and know someone's starving right now? It kills me.

It doesn't make sense. Yeah, there's so much of the, the world and the systems that we've constructed that don't make makes sense. And so we're moving towards that space where we're going to start to blow all of that up and break it all down, that radical departure that you're, that you're talking about.

Be kind to each other and be considerate and share and give and ask what, who needs help, and smile at each other. The planet I'm on is so different than this. We don't have money where I came from, and we don't even eat very much.

Okay, talk to us about what it means when you say the planet where I came from, because I know there's people listening This is such a funny podcast.

No, I've never done this before. I'm doing a very unusual podcast today, but your chart hits my chart in a very significant way. Um, where I, where I come from, people are really kind. Like, you know that your neighbor is your friend. There's no separate— you really do believe— this is not a theory that there's only one of us here. Where I come from, I know I'm part of a family and that I'm one particular shiny version because I've done my work, because I studied my chart and I know how to activate my frequency. So I'm really operating at full speed and there's someone next to me who's not, and I'm like, you might want to do this. And we give suggestions and we listen to each other and we do telepathy and we don't have to use so many goddamn words. And, and there's a real genuine, um, authentic kindness that occurs because they are really your family. And if you don't get along with me, walk across the street. You don't fight with them. You just go, you know what? There's a whole different reality that what I remember, which is, you know, my kids, everyone thinks I'm crazy. I never lock doors. I give everything away. People come and stay in my home. I just don't believe in— like, this is a shared— in my planet, we are in it together. We're individually evolving, yes, and there's uniqueness, and we can identify by looking into those charts, which by the way are tattooed on our foreheads. But it doesn't have to require us rejecting and conflicting and separating and judging each other. But that's just— you just asked me a question that— that's just— I mean, that's really true. I do believe everything I just said.

Yeah, well, I, I was intrigued by it because I'm a past life regression practitioner, so I'm like, maybe Deborah's— maybe Deborah's going to tell us about her past life on a different planet.

I've definitely had— I mean, I don't remember in detail that planet in visuals. I remember I continue to carry the legacy of that planet and that level of consciousness in my here and now. But I have past life memories and had them from a very young age. My first one, when I was a kid, I did horseback riding. And I was by myself out riding. And I totally remembered being a boy and being an American Indian. And I could not believe the visceral experience of— like, I had no idea why did I know how to ride. Or when I learned astrology, ready? I learned astrology without having a teacher. And by the time I got the first download from someone sitting in a car with me talking for 3 days, I became the professional within a month with total recall. And that was because it was a— I've had so many lifetimes doing astrology, so you don't have to recall it in detail. You could— I like— I have a million Buddhas. People always make fun of me all over my house. I wonder why. Yeah, I've been— there's no question I've been in Tibet and I've meditated in Nepal and I've been part of a family that that's a— I mean, there's— you, you can identify by your own taste buds and your own— if you play piano, if you're someone that's a writer, if you're someone that's a dancer, if you're someone that's fascinated with numbers, you were in Egypt and you were studying Pythagorean, you know, these are inherited memories, like past life memories, as you're doing. That's one of your gifts. You're a little witch. You're such a witch. It's not a surprise.

Hey, don't forget that every month we are picking a Listener of the Month to win $50 in cash just for showing love to the show. All you have to do is leave an epic review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, screenshot the review before you hit submit, and DM that screenshot to us on Instagram @makeshifthappenpodcast. And that's it. I want to thank you for being such a loyal listener and show my appreciation by putting a little extra cash in your pocket. I know it's super easy not to do it, but every single rating and review seriously helps the show rank higher and reach new people, so we appreciate them more than you know. We'll announce the next winner at the end of the month and slide into your DMs if it's you, so keep an eye out and good luck. Love you guys, and thanks for supporting Makeshift Happen. Yeah, I love it. Well, one thing that I think might be interesting for the listeners to hear is is, you know, you said people think I'm crazy for all kinds of reasons. You have the doors unlocked, you've got Buddhas all around your house. You've obviously been an untraditional woman in terms of the timeline that this incarnation has taken place for you in our world. So what has your experience been with that, of feeling like because you have all these different beliefs or ways of living that are untraditional, people may be passing judgment or thinking that you're woo-woo or off in the clouds or not taking you seriously because you're like, oh, that's Deborah, she's a weirdo.

It's such a great question. When I was younger— this is my book, The Missing Element— the book starts off with, I had candles all over my room when I was a child, and I never lit one. Now, I came to find out I had a lot of fire in my chart, but I didn't know it then, and I was scared of it even then because it was such a— I had such a strong physical strength, so I subdued myself. And there was the judgment, like, I don't want to show off, I don't want to stand out, I don't want to be different. Different. So I spent my entire childhood trying to be normal, which is a setting on the dryer. It has nothing to do with this reality. And then as the years went by and I studied my chart, and I was like, uh-oh, I'm not normal. Then I realized— then I had a journey, one of those medicine journeys way when I was young, and they said you can only get as high as you can get grounded, so you'd better ground. So I came home that day and I redid my office, and I started doing my taxes, and I really valued the practical world of keeping my car clean and clean. And I don't have Virgo like you do. Keeping my car clean and taking care of my organization and taking care of my business. And, you know, I have 50 employees now. I run a company with all women and we teach astrology around the world. That's a grounded human. But I didn't come this way. So my eccentric, non-traditionalist dressed up as a normal little goody-goody. Don't ask me how that one happened. Then I realized through the astrology, like, uh-oh, I have way too much fire. To not be disruptive and to not be saying shit and to not be standing out. And as that changed, I became comfortable. It took a long time to accept that, uh-oh, I think I'm a little different and I think I stand out. And then as the years have gone by, by my 50s, I was like, I like being different, watch this. And then I went on all those videos and the next thing I knew I had 7 million views on one set of videos on YouTube. Where I was acting like a crazy person. Have you ever seen my videos? Yes. Yeah, and that's when I broke the edge and I went, okay, because when I first did them, I put them in a drawer because I was so embarrassed. I thought, what crazy woman does 12 personalities and acts like a maniac? Like, I'm not going to share those. So for 5 years I hid them, and then someone would ask me if I had any video material, and I was like, oh, I have this CD, and I gave it to her with all my 12 personalities on YouTube. And she could hear her hysterically laughing in the other room. And she was like, would you mind if I put these on YouTube? Which I like, okay. And the next thing I knew, they went viral. And that was the fire. So I had to get over my— I had to— first I went into the suppress it, don't even light the candles, don't show off, don't stand out. I was just such a goody-goody. And then as the years have gone by, I'm now a crazy person, and I like it that way, but I'm grounded. So I took the message from that journey You have to ground in order to get high. You can't just do spirituality without taking care of your taxes.

Hmm, I love that message. And that when you finally adopted the natural element of fire that's in your chart, you felt more free, you felt more yourself, you felt more alive. So the missing element is something that I really want to talk to you about and also look at what is maybe my missing element in my chart. So When you talk about the elements, you're talking about water, air, earth, and fire, right? And if I'm correct— correct me if I'm wrong— but there's this concept that everybody has a missing, a quote-unquote missing element. Doesn't mean that you don't have it at all in your chart, but it's maybe the one that you have the least amount of. And that's kind of a universal lesson for you in this lifetime of how to integrate that or adopt that more. Is that right?

Very good. I'm impressed. Yes.

Okay, so let's look at— let's— we'll use my chart as an example to look at the missing element, and everybody can kind of listen and, and hear what the guidance or advice is for someone who has whatever my missing element is. I haven't looked into it because I'm ready to hear it from you.

Okay, so in your chart, you— it's called a singleton when there's just one planet in one of the elements, and you have a single Singleton, which is in air. You only have one planet in air. So air is the element. So this is, this is where it's not exact. It's something you've got to study. So it would appear if you were studying your chart, you'd say, oh, I have no air in my chart, but you have 3, 4 planets in the house of air. So indirectly you have air. But what it would say if you didn't have that is you weren't good at communicating. That's not true. That you don't like superficial talk. That's true. That you're not very good dippy-doo-dah, that you can't get light, that you tend to be heavier or more serious about things. But I see with you, because you've got 4 planets in the house of Gemini, you're just a mental— your mind is insatiable. So even though you have no air, you love to talk, right?

Yeah, I love to talk. And I have— I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong— I think I have a lot of planets in the house of communication.

That's what I just said. There's 4 planets in the house of air in Gemini, in the house of communication.. So it's an indirect access. You don't have planets in air, but the placement of where your planets are is in the air house. So the missing element, the reason why in the book that I wrote, you don't need to know any astrology as in zero. You take a test. They give you the book. They probably didn't give it to you. Usually we do a podcast. So you take a test, you identify in the test which of the four elements did I score low on? Because it's not necessarily like in your case, you only have one planet in air, but But you have so many planets in the house of the communication that it indicates that there is a source for you. But if you took the test, I would say my intuition is that you're quite balanced. If there's an element that you, that you suffer from or that you have to work at is the earth element. You get— it's not that you don't do earth, it's that you drive yourself crazy. Like, you, you— earth is not your strong suit. You just have to really work on it. Practicality, being on time, organizing, and you're like, I don't want to. But you do it, but it's not because it's easy. So I would say your lowest element is earth and that you would— so that's where I'm saying, this is why in the book I literally never once mentioned astrology in my entire book. And I was deliberate about this. I didn't want, one, people that didn't believe in astrology to read it, and then two, people that didn't have their charts done, just take the test, go read the element you're missing, and then grow it. So for you to do the taxes, to do the organization, to do the lists and make yourself do it with a smile on your face rather than, I hate doing this, would be a game changer.

The thing that I hate the most in life, Deborah, is like administrative tasks, like things that are necessary to do. I was just having this conversation with my family the other day because, like, as I told you, I just had a huge move, right, to a whole— like, back to the US. So new country, we got to get new phones, new phone numbers, new contracts, new health insurance. Like, there's so many administrative, earthly things to do that I'm like, I could not care less. Like, I do not, I do not want to do this. I have the list.

What motivated you? I'm so curious.

So I've been in Spain for 6 years, over 6 years. So I studied Spanish as part of my degree. When I was studying abroad, I met my partner. And after I graduated, I decided to go back to Spain for just a year to, you know, kind of see where things would go, travel a little bit more. You know, fill my Sagittarius cup and explore and abandon, you know, all the responsibilities of getting a corporate job and, you know, going right into work. So that's what I did. And then one year turned into 6 plus. And I loved my time in Spain, and we had such a beautiful journey there. But I've been so much time away from home. And I don't know, maybe this is part of my Saturn return.

Maybe. No, no, no, no, no. Maybe this is your Saturn return.

This is like coming back home. And I'm— I am a little bit more excited now about some of the grounding things that I get to do by being here, which is looking for a home and establishing, you know, a long-term space that I really feel that I love. So I can see where that earth is really calling me. Like, it's like, come on, you know, it's time. You gotta do the stuff to like get in, get grounded in, in your life now. And I, I do feel that 100%.

That is what Saturn return is. It, it demands that you make a big change and you don't get free will. It's almost like the winds come and they knock on the door and they pick you up. So then people always say, well, how do I prepare? I'm like, you can't prepare. There's no way to prepare for it. You will know— you're not going to believe what's going to happen. How did your partner do? Didn't mind leaving?

He was excited. He's— he— well, he's a Gemini, um, and yeah, I wish I had his— yeah, I wish I had his whole kind of chart to give you, but he's a Gemini and I think he's a Sagittarius Moon also. So like, we're on the same page, and he really wanted to have a new experience and new opportunities. Obviously, you know, America is the land of opportunity, so We're just kind of excited about this new journey into uncovering who we want to be.

How old is he?

He's the same age as me. He's 28.

You're both in Saturn return. So what life does— this is the OG talking— it has a design. This is the gift of astrology, why you study it. It's so comforting to know that there's this reliable architecture that holds your world in place, that has a design and a plan for you.. Now, it's not my job to tell you what the plan is. You could go definitely see a good astrologer who's going to help you decide, where should I go? How do I do it? What's up? But that is the function of astrology. You lean into these solid— it's like a mountain of stars. I just made that up. It's like a, a valley where you sit in it and you look up and you go, I see the perspective. And you don't have to figure it out right now. Life does describe itself with or without you knowing astrology. You just moved back to the States and Saturn return is upon you. By the way, it won't happen— doesn't complete to the end of 2022, so you're just at the very beginning of it. So I don't want you to think like you're— you can't get it wrong, number one. So that's the first thing I want to say to you. You're, you're in a wonderful— I'm just going to look and see here this, um, cycle that you're in. Hold on one moment, please. They did. Yeah, so the timing— your Saturn's at 24 degrees. It's the end of next year And you have this gift in your chart. You know that you have 5 planets in— or 4 planets in Scorpio? Did you know that? Yeah, a little sexy thing, you. She's a sexy thing.

Tell me about that. Tell me about the Scorpio energy that you see.

Desire to be in a body. Like, you, you suffer. Someone— half of you doesn't like being in a body and doesn't like this planet. Scorpios can go very negative. And the other half's like, I'm gonna eat this life alive. I'm gonna suck on it. I'm gonna I'm gonna taste it, I'm gonna kiss it, I'm gonna, mm, secret sauce. Like, you're gonna do a full-on life. And the downside of Scorpio, like Virgo, so Virgo's downside is criticism, Scorpio's downside is negativity, like humans shouldn't be trusted and people are all awful, and you can really feel the dark side of this reality. And then the upside of it is, said the Sagittarius, I am gonna eat it alive. You know, you're like, there's nothing about you that's vague.

Yeah, I would say that's true. People never wonder how I feel, we'll say that.

And it's so great that your partner's a Sag because your honesty and bluntness and bottom-lining things and your success— that's the other thing, you will have tremendous success because you turn the volume up. Like, you can't do lukewarm. You're like, is it good or is it not? I'm not doing it if it's not really good. This is like you're a quality control personality type and you need to know that about yourself. And you can't— if like if someone does a half-assed job, you're like, they're out.

Yeah, totally can't handle it.

But what your, what your function this life is with all those planets in the house of communicating is to teach us, to inspire us, to coach us, to talk to us and demand. Like you are allowed to be bossy with 4 planets in Scorpio, Sun in Sag. You're supposed to say to us, oh no, No, that's unacceptable. Kind Moon in Cancer, you're gentle, you'll feed us, you'll be nurturing, but you are not going to tolerate mediocrity.

Hmm. I, I resonate with that so much because I think I had this story as I was growing up a lot. Maybe the outward perception of what others received from that kind of like certainty or bossiness or whatever we want to call it was Yeah, maybe it felt bitchy or judgy to other people. And I was always really confused about that because I knew that I had that like Cancer Moon, really gentle, nurturing, loving side. And I felt like, this is so weird that people, you know, are scared of me or that they think that I'm a bitch before they get to know me, because I'm the most loving, caring, nurturing, beautiful friend that I think anybody could ever have. But I am very direct and blunt, and I don't accept mediocrity. So Yeah, I see that a lot.

So beautiful. It's— see, this is a great— you're a great example. When you have 4 planets in Scorpio and you're a Sagittarius, first of all, it's athletic. Did you do anything with athletic stuff when you were a kid?

I was a really competitive dancer for many years.

Exactly. Competitive is a key word. Like, you cannot not be the best.

Well, that's probably why I left dancing also, right?

And then your critic came in and your Virgo was mad at you and mad at them. And why am I such a bitch? And why do I boss myself an elbow to the front of the room. Why do I need to be seen?

I could— yeah, I felt, I felt so much pressure in my, like, we'll call it quote unquote career as a dancer. I was obviously like— I danced from the time that I was, uh, probably 2. I think my mom said they wouldn't let the kids start dancing until they were 3, but she was like, my daughter's dying to be here, she won't take no for an answer, she's still in diapers but she's a really good girl, please just take her. So I started, I was really like fiercely independent from the time that I was a little kid. My mom always recounts the memory of when I went off to preschool and she dropped me off and I just walked into the front door and I reached my hand all the way behind me to wave goodbye, but I didn't even turn my head to look at her. And that was painful. My mom's a Pisces. And so that was a really emotional moment for her, like, no, she doesn't need me. But so yeah, I've always had that kind of like independent energy. And I think as I moved through my quote-unquote career as a competitive dancer, I started to recognize that like I wasn't the best, and there were certain things that were challenging for me and hard for me. And I don't know, maybe it was that Virgo energy that convinced me like, well, you can't do this anymore because, uh, we're not the best, and so we're just not gonna do this.

So crazy. Um, the dancer in you and the compa— I could just see it. And the strength of your character. So this is what astrology does when you have Mercury— do you know that you have Mercury conjunct Pluto? You didn't know?

I don't know.

Well, your Mercury is your mental, but it only happens once a year for like a couple days. Mercury and Pluto stand together. Pluto's power, and Mercury is your thoughts. So you get so fixated when you get into— like, I would love to teach you astrology. You would learn it. You would become real— because whatever you do, you can't do a half-assed job. Mm-hmm.

I've always—

by the way, go ahead.

I was just gonna say, I've always felt that about myself. This, this, this feels really braggy, but I'm not meaning it in that way. But I've always thought, ever since I was young, like, whatever I do, I just do really well. Like, I don't know, give me anything and I do it better than the rest of the kids in the class.

I'm trying to say, Pluto conjunct Mercury, you're a crazy person. You're so intense. Intense. My whole dream, in the honor of the future, is the only way we're going to make it through this transition is the people that are very comfortable in their skin, who are very clear their function. And you are a communicator, and you are a teacher, and you cannot do anything but the best, Virgo. Because for you to become conscious, your chart is all about teaching and verbalizing and inspiring us. Like, this podcast that you're doing is so up the right alley for you with 4 planets in the house of Gemini. Gemini, you have to talk. And then it's in Sag, so you're like the blunt one. And then it's in Scorpio, I gotta do it deep, gotta go deep. And then Virgo, how do I make sure this is perfect?

Yes, those are my 4 personalities, you guys. That's how we created the podcast. Totally. Yes.

Oh my God, that feels so aligned and so And the people that are listening, if you want to sign up, the, the doors are open until the 31st. I don't know, when is this coming out? They may be not even going to hear it.

Yeah, we'll have to take a look at the schedule. I was thinking we might be able to move some things around so that people will be able to hear it, because that would be really good.

And if they didn't get in this term, in September, in August, we'll start again. And it's only twice a year, and we only take a limited number of students, and there's only 10 people in each class, so it's very intimate. It. And they study your chart, like they're going to pull up your chart every week. And there'll be 9 other people all interpreting it and studying it. And then by the end of those 6 weeks, it's only a 6-week class, you get your own mentor who studied with me your chart, so they're prepared to really identify it. And then at the end of the 6 weeks, I feel like a drug dealer. Everybody's like, give me some, you know, give me some more, because it gets so compelling to understand your kid, your friend, your mom, your brother, your like, why didn't someone tell me sooner?

Yeah, yeah, I've always felt that way about astrology ever since I kind of started digging into it more. Always was so intrigued. I mean, even when I was like a teenager and had no idea the depths that astrology could go to, I had the app on my first ever Verizon phone to read my horoscope every day. I was like daily reading my Sagittarius horoscope.

And you know, on Instagram, I have a video that comes out every day Did you know that? So you can watch that video and get the weather report.

Yep, I love those. You got your like, uh, like cosmic background.

You're the best. I point and the planet shows up.

Yeah, you point and there's the planets. Oh my God, I love it. Yeah, if you guys don't follow Debra, like, her work is— I mean, like we've been saying, she's the OG. She obviously knows what she's talking about. Like, you gotta go follow her and learn from her. And maybe we'll, maybe we'll be together learning astrology astrology in this next round because I'm really, really, really intrigued by it, and I think it would be an amazing opportunity for anybody that's—

yes, yes. And it's really fun when you bring your friends with because then you study together and then you have a language together, and then suddenly the preparation for the future, like knowing Saturn returns coming and when is the exact degree— you want to know all this. If nothing else, you guys go get a reading. You go online, it says study with me on my website, and then I will look at your chart chart and do— I sing the song, matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match, find me a find. I matchmake people. So I look at your chart and then I look at the 15, 16, 17 astrologers I have, and then I look and say, this person would be— and I know just who would be great with you because I can tell by your chart who you're compatible with.

Oh, that's amazing. Wow, I never thought about looking at the chart of the astrologer and the person who's receiving the reading and making sure that that's like an aligned match as well. Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. Okay, well, before, before we finish, I wanted to hear if there's any like main astrological events for 2022 that you can give us some, some guidance or heads up.

You're gonna have a lot of fun in the spring. Right now, this is your mom's time, your little Pisces mom. Pisces are in a good cycle up until March, April, right after their birthday. Then Jupiter goes into Aries, which will really serve you. Jupiter— so the, the second part 2022, there's a lot more energy. Right now it's just soft. We're dealing with the— the virus is still here. My prediction is by, I'm going to say May, the virus conversation has subdued. We're back in the rolling of the energy. There's more positive energy around, and we are now really considering what the implications are. I'm thankful for the virus because it took us to our knees. This was the only way life knew that they got together a little council and said, what can we do to get these humans vulnerable so we can prepare them to start thinking about how do we do our spiritual practice? Not in theory about reading and that the past life information is so important and you got to apply all this. You can only get as high as you are grounded. And so we'll find ourselves in a much more positive energy by spring, summer.

Amazing. That feels, that feels hopeful. So everybody, let's just, let's just take that as a collective and let's just put it in our pocket and let's just see it happening. Let's vision it. Because I think we're all really ready for this conversation to kind of fizzle a little bit and for us to feel a little bit lighter and more positive and have that outlook on what is next. You know, having been through everything that we've experienced, what now, right? How are we going to take integrate it? What are we going to make it mean for our lives and for our futures? I think, yeah, this whole experience of the pandemic has really served a lot of us. Obviously, it's been a really hard time for so many, but I think it's also served the collective in a way that has made us wake up massively to our lives and a lot of the things that weren't working for us in our lives. And yeah, there's a lot of hidden blessings within this, this whole whole experience. So, ah, I'm excited for May 2022, people.

Yes, you'll feel the shift. You'll feel it as early as the end of April when Jupiter goes into Aries. And then we have— you're going to have a really good end of the year because that's when your Saturn return hits exact degree. So by that point, you'll have your new home and you'll feel like you're really comfortable, and you'll see like, oh my God, life just did all that stuff just like she said. Saturn return is exact degree, and then a new destiny the evolved. And it might be astrology. You might— I mean, your Saturn's in Aquarius, it rules astrology. The one planet you have in air is Saturn, your life lesson, and it's in the sign of the futurist. So part of your gift is being a futurist.

Wow, I love that. I feel like a huge part of my work is inspiring people to think about their futures and take control of their futures.

Why, you'd be a great astrologer.

It's a perfect fit for Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, that feels really expansive and exciting to me.

Yay. Okay. Well, I have to keep going. What a pleasure. I always like to say when people say like, what's your— they're going to say, what's your message? You guys be yourself. Everyone else is taken and you can't do normal. It's a setting on the dryer. Like there's nothing about this planet that requires normal right now. It requires extraordinary people who are honest and real and vulnerable and authentic. And that's what astrology does. It gives you permission to come back and be your real self.

You guys heard it here first— authenticity over everything. Please go follow Debra, get her book, sign up to learn from her, get a reading with one of her incredible astrologers. We're going to link her website and her Instagram and everything in the show notes below so you can find how to contact her. Thank you so much, Debra, for sharing your time and your wisdom and your beautiful, spontaneous, exciting, jubilant energy with us. I've loved this. This so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

My pleasure. Thank you for all that you're doing for us.