"I Built the Wealthy Soft Girl Life Everyone Wants — and Still Ended Up Depressed" w/ Angie Lee

What's up, you guys?

Welcome back to the podcast.

We have another juicy conversation from our Austin tour lined up for you today. So if you're not watching on video and you want that experience of feeling like you're live with us in the studio to see the outfits, the facial expressions, the laughs, just hop over to YouTube to watch the full video version. Angie Lee is here, serial entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and co-founder of Soul CBD. She's back on the show, and this time we're going all the way there. So many of you have reached out to tell me how much you resonated with the recent episode about the soft girl versus the girl boss identity crisis.. So I know you're going to love this conversation while you're here. Angie's raw, unfiltered experience of what it was really like to build an 8-figure brand, have enough money to never work again, and still feel so lost and unfulfilled. She shares the honest truth about the soft girl life leading her into a deep depression and the heartbreaks and lessons within her fertility journey. We chat about how she went from hiring a DJ off of Craigslist for a 5-person event at the very beginnings of her entrepreneurial journey all the way to speaking in front of thousands and building a wildly successful wellness empire. What no one tells you about retiring in your 30s, and if it feels like freedom or kind of an identity crisis. The myth that business success is going to bring you happiness and what actually matters instead, and how she's approaching the waiting season of wanting to become a mom. Plus, Angie shares what's really resonating with audiences online right now, and spoiler alert, it is not perfection. So if you've ever asked yourself, who the fuck am I really? Or wondered how to build a life that actually feels like yours instead of just chasing someone else's aesthetic Pinterest board, you're going to love this conversation. And a quick PSA before we dive in, we are doing a giveaway with Angie. So if you want to win a free box of Soul CBD goodies, literally the best tasting CBD products in the world, you guys, I've been using these for years and I've gotten my whole family hooked. Just take 5 seconds to go comment 'Angie' under the trailer video for this episode on my Instagram at _samanthadaily, and you'll be entered to win. Sol CBD products are amazing for daily anxiety relief, deep sleep, calming the nerves for airplane travel, or soothing chronic pain. So go leave a comment under the trailer, show some love, and enter to win. And as always, your comments, shares, and reviews help us keep bringing incredible guests like Angie on the show. So thank you so, so much. All right, fam, let's get into it. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shit happen.

Welcome back to the show, Angie.

I'm so happy that you're here. I'm so excited. This is going to be so good.

Yes. Okay. So I kind of want to do a little bit of backstory of your journey into entrepreneurship because we've had you on the show a couple of times. We've talked about like a lot of different things, but I don't know that my audience has really gotten to hear the nitty-gritty of your kind of entrepreneurial story and what it actually took to build what you did and also what that really looked like. Because life and business for you has been a lot different in the past couple of years, which we'll talk about that. But I kind of want you to share just a little bit of what it actually took to build your personal brand in the early days and the parts of that that people didn't see online, like the come up before what ended up being, you know, the massive events and thousands of people in the room and speaking on stages every weekend. And before that, like, what did it actually take to get there?

Yeah, it's, it's funny you're asking this because I feel like I haven't been asked this in a while. So it's weird to think of, wait, how did this all begin? And I was actually thinking of it a little bit this morning. Because I was thinking of that trend where people are doing the butterfly effect. Like, if this didn't happen, I wouldn't be a zillionaire. Like, if I didn't, you know. And so I was thinking the decision I made when I was 20, I was in college and I always knew that I wasn't made for corporate. I shouldn't have even went to college, to be honest. It just gave me a lot of debt and I didn't really get anything out of it. But I was in my dorm room and I, at the time, this is 2011, so this was way before blogs and having a personal brand was cool or was a thing. But I would be Googling, what are things I can do other than go to corporate? Like, I don't want to be in a cubicle. What are my options?

We needed ChatGPT back then.

Exactly. This is way before ChatGPT. So I would just be sitting there in my little 400-square-foot, uh, dorm room, just desperate to find and then to create something other than what was the traditional route. And I went to college originally to be a dietitian, so I was obsessed with health and list, and I thought, okay, I'll go and be a dietitian, and then I'll work for a sports team, and I'll make $40,000 a year, and I'll work 80 hours a week, and I'll hate my life, and then I'll die. That was like gonna be the plan for my life. And I feel like there was this moment where something sparked in me, and I said, there has to be a different way. And for me, I knew that I couldn't just go that traditional path. And so I started a blog, a health and wellness blog, and I would post about burpees and push-ups and drink your protein shakes, girlies. And I was a little bro. Like, now looking back, I'm like, oh my God, I would talk about egg whites all day and That was what I was obsessed with. I was doing bikini competitions and fitness modeling, and health and wellness was my obsession. It was like everything to me. And I started to share about my journey of doing different weird diets. And so I know that's a whole different conversation about being a woman and the horrible things I did in the name of health, quote unquote, which was absolutely not healthy. But I was 20 years old and I was ripped and I was like, yeah, just keep eating your egg whites and keep doing pushups and you you could be a fitness model too. I mean, I don't even know what I was saying. And so I was sharing all of this online and it started to grow very, very slowly. It's not like, oh my God, I woke up one day and had a viral piece of content. That really wasn't— I feel like virality wasn't as popular then anyway. Yeah.

So, and this was on Facebook?

Yeah, I had a Blogspot, Facebook. I was posting on Instagram. I mean, gosh, that would be hilarious. We should go back to some of those Instagram posts. It would just be me flexing in the mirror, showing my abs. And I'd be like, here's the 5 ways to have abs this summer. Here's how to have a hot girl summer.

But that stuff worked back then.

Yeah. And it's what I loved. And I genuinely wanted to help girls have a nice booty and some abs. And that's what I was passionate about at the time. And so I, I just kept sharing that content. And again, my intention wasn't, oh, and then I'll build a brand and then I'll speak on stages. It just kind of was, this is where I'm at and I wanna see if I can create something different. And so Yeah, I'm trying to like put it into Cliff Notes. I basically started creating that content, started getting a following on campus mostly, so girls on campus, and then they started sharing with their friends and they're like, oh, she's giving these tips on her blog to be healthy. And then I would tell everyone if I was like at the cafe, I'd be like, hey, do you want to check out my health blog? And people would be like, what the frick is a blog? And I was like, well, I give really good tips. And I just, I was shameless. I just thought it was really interesting and cool. And I remember calling my mom at the time and I said, I'm going to figure out how to make money on the internet. She was like, oh God, like, what are you talking about? Because, you know, at the time there wasn't any option. So she was like, great, you're going to be naked posting photos, you know, of you, of your tits on the internet to make money. And so I stayed consistent with that. It got to the point where 3 or 4 years into that, I then drop out of college. I'm in Chicago then. I'm living downtown. I am doing any side job I can so I can have time after work and on the weekends to create content. Now, I wasn't calling it creating content. Right. But now it's, it's called creating content. And I was personal training. I was a personal assistant. I would go to people's houses and clean out their fridge and show them how to have healthier options. I was just doing whatever I could do to make enough cash to pay for my rent and food. So then in my free time, I would make videos and posts, and that was what would light me up. It was the thing that I wanted to do more than anything. I still didn't know how I was going to make it a business.

So did you see anyone else at this time doing something like this on the internet, even if they were like more traditional fitness influencer type people that maybe were like the, the infomercials or like I think of Chalene as an example. Like, I don't know if you knew about her or followed her at that point, but like anybody that was doing something that wasn't exactly what you were doing because you were more like grassroots, like building it on your own. But even someone that maybe had this like TV personality or persona that was kind of who you were looking up to.

Yeah, I remember I had found Chalene's podcast. I remember exactly where I was on a run when I was listening to her show and I thought, wow, this lady is so cool. She's, she's monetizing her passion for fitness. Maybe I could do that too. And then when I was getting into the, the, the fitness competition world, the reason I got into that is because I thought, well, maybe one day I could be on the COVID of Oxygen. That was my dream. I wanted to be on the COVID of Oxygen Fitness. And I thought, if I could be on the COVID of that magazine, I'll die happy, because those girls look so happy. Well, now it's hilarious because I became friends with many of those girls, and I realized how many of them were just so depleted, so deprived, I mean, some of them on different drugs and things to get that lean and maintain that leanness as women. So it's funny that on the COVID shoot they look so happy, but I don't really think they were actually embodying health. And now a lot of us are awake to the crazy bullshit crash diets and things that we did to look that lean on a cover of stuff. So yeah, that was my dream is I thought if I'm, if I'm a cover model, then I can be Jillian Michaels. And then if I'm Jillian Michaels, I'll be a fitness personality and then I'll have my own fitness show or my own TV show where I'm talking about health and fitness. So that was kind of the vision. But what started to happen is I think my passion for health and wellness, one, it became unhealthy. And there were certain seasons where it wasn't healthy what I was doing. And whether it was orthorexia or overtraining, and it got to the point where even my boyfriends, I remember that I would date in college, would be like, can you just eat a piece of pizza? Like, can you just get a life? Like, why are you always measuring your food? And you're always at the gym working out like all day long instead of going to class. Like, you need a life. And so It did get to the point where I realized this is not healthy anymore. And this is actually where, when I think of the moment that my content really started to grow, was when I became vulnerable and started sharing about the realities of being a fitness model and what it actually looked like. And it wasn't some of the things that a lot of us were saying we were doing. And, oh, I just eat, eat healthy and eat my protein, and this is how I look. No, I was on 800 calories a day, an hour of fasted cardio in the morning, an hour of fasted cardio at night. Wow. 6 days of lifting. I mean, it was really intense what I put my body through. Thank God my hormones didn't get too jacked up in my early 20s. And I am so grateful this was earlier in life when your body is so resilient that you can kind of like fuck it up like that. But I started to share with women and I remember the day that I sent out an email and again, my email list is like 20 people. It's a few girls on campus, my mom and a few of my clients that I'm personal training. And it said something like, I got to find this email. It said something like, I ate 6 extra almonds and cried. And it was the first time that I'm realizing what I did was basically clickbait. But I didn't know that was a thing. I just said, I'm going to put a really interesting title to this email to get people to open it. And it's going to be about the story of how when I had 6 extra almonds and I thought I was going to be fat then because I had went over my fat grams for the day. And I saw the open rates just explode and everyone, everyone opened it and they started sharing it with other girls. It was my first hook. And I love that we both are obsessed with messaging, so you totally— we can jam on this. But it was my first hook. It was the first time I was like, oh my God, this is how it works. If you share what— how you're actually feeling and what you're actually going through, people will open and people will read. And that was my first taste of, oh my God, this girl shared with Sarah in Iowa, who then shared with Tina in Florida, who shared with her cousin and her sister, and now everyone's reading this email. Holy shit, this is crazy. And so I had like a bump of mini virality there, and I started to share about what I was actually going through and how I was committed to becoming a woman who was actually healthy and not lying to people on the internet and saying, oh yeah, it's just from eating some chicken breast. Like, that's— no, I was on like Hydroxycut and all this shit that was so bad for you. I don't know, do you know what that is?

I remember that.

These crazy diet pills that basically were like 500 milligrams of caffeine. Of course you didn't eat on them because you were just, yeah, on coked out, on illegal coke all day. But of course they were marketing it to women in their 20s saying Hydroxycut's safe and you'll have a beach body too. I fell for it. Obviously I was desperate to look hot because I thought if I am not super ripped and I'm selling fitness programs, who's going to buy from me? Yeah. And that we can get into too when it comes to the online marketing world. But I— yeah, that was, that was the obsession. Started sharing that vulnerably and that kind of became my brand is, oh wow, this girl is one of the first girls in this space to go the other way and actually talk about what the other girls aren't talking about. So it made me stand out and then built that, did ebooks, did one-on-one coaching, group coaching, helping women to have more balanced eating. And that was like my whole thing is how do we eat a more flexible way and a more approachable way that's good for your hormones? And I'm studying holistic health. And then I started to learn about sponsors and reaching out to brands and saying, hey, if you want to put your logo on my blog, you know, could you— you could put it there if you give me $50. And I thought I was loaded. I was like, oh my God, this granola brand is paying me $50. To put their name and logo, I'm loaded. I'm set. I'm set for life. I'm like, Mom, don't worry about me. I'm good. And she's like, oh God. I imagine at the time now she was like, dear Lord. But I mean, I'll give my mom a little shout out here. She's always been such a huge support of Angie will figure it out. Like, she's not meant to follow the path. And I am so grateful for that. And I want to mention that when I have these conversations, because I know a lot of women listening are like, shit, my parents were not supportive and I got so much hate for it. I'm really grateful that I was given the gift of incredible parenting that allowed me to be me and allowed me to just figure it the fuck out. And so she would always say like, all right, you might be in debt, but you know what? You're young, you don't have kids, you don't have a mortgage. This is your time to just be messy and to figure it out. And that's what I did is I just would stay up learning different ways to monetize. Like, oh, you can have brands pay you. Oh, that's weird. And then I can do one-on-one coaching and then I can do this thing called group coaching. And then I started putting on these events in Chicago and I had my little boombox and I would rent out these yoga studios or these just—

Okay, so I have something I think you're really going to love and your business is going to love it even more. Do you want to steal the strategy I've been using to seduce premium buyers and sell out my offers on Instagram Stories? Chances are you're already posting, you're already making sales, but if your Instagram Stories aren't working as hard as you are, you're leaving money on the table. Sold Out Stories is going to teach you exactly how to change that so that you can sell out any offer at any price point. And even high-caliber coaches miss this because selling on stories isn't about how much you post or how frequently you show up face to camera. It's about psychological sequencing. And the way you're posting right now might be giving the premium buyers in your audience the ick. Documenting your day and hoping it builds trust, posting look-at-me content and calling it authority, sharing client wins as soon as they drop in instead of strategically weaving them into story selling sequence designed to drive demand and convert sales. We both know that you're not here to learn how to show up more. You're here because you know your content could be converting faster and more effectively. Sold Out Stories is gonna give you 5 high converting story selling frameworks built specifically for premium buyer psychology. Inside, you'll get over 6 hours of deep dive video trainings, real IG story breakdowns, and live walkthroughs that show you exactly how to elevate your slides from authority building all the way to offer flow. In less than 10 slides. My clients have already been using these frameworks to pull 5-figure sales days while posting less. One client generated 14 premium leads from a single story sequence. Another sold out her event in under 6 hours with just 8 strategic story slides. No sales calls, no paid ads, just the right frameworks. You'll walk away knowing how to sequence for desire, transition into your offer seamlessly, and sell daily without ever feeling salesy. You already know your offer is incredible, so now it's just time for your stories to sell it like it is. Grab Sold Out Stories today and turn 10 slides or less into your highest converting content. Let's make your next story your most profitable one yet. Click the link in the show notes below and I'll see you inside.

I don't think this was legal, but I would just find these patches of grass in this city. I didn't know you needed like a permit and I would just bring like a boombox or some DJ that I found on Craigslist. And I would invite women on my blog and on Instagram, and I would call it like, you know, Muscles and Mindset, or like Pizza and Squats was one of them. And it would just be these like motivational fitness events for women where I would have a little stage and I would bring women together. No idea what the fuck I'm doing. I'm just like, I think I'm here to help women and speak to them. So I'm just going to see what comes out of my mouth and we're going to all come together and do a workout. And then I'll give them some motivational quotes that, you know, I went to Tony Robbins, so I'll figure this out. I'm 22 years old, right? Like, I went to Tony Robbins, so I got it in the bag. So I'm just— whatever is coming out of my butthole, I'm just like, yeah, you could do it too, girl. And so it was, it was really fun because I started to become addicted to this idea of creating these live experiences for women, even though I didn't clearly know where it was going or what was happening. And so I started doing those over and over and over again in Chicago. And I remember my, my boyfriend at the time, he was like, dude, what are you doing? Like, nobody's— this isn't going to become a thing. Nobody wants to go to these events. Like, you, you might as well just go back to just, just be a personal trainer. Stop trying to do anything else. And why are you posting about your life on the internet? Like, he was very against it. He thought it was weird that I was sharing vulnerably. And I remember just being like, you wait and see, I'll, I'll have a big event one day with more than 10 girls. And so, um, yeah, and I did. And that I did. I don't know if he cares or looks. I mean, I think he blocked me, so he never saw it. Shit. Um, And then, gosh, yeah. And then what happened, which is the natural transition that I feel like a lot of people go through— all my friends had a corporate job that they hated. They're in a cubicle and they hate it. And they see this girl who I figured out— it wasn't a ton of money, but I figured out how to start making money by hosting events and the sponsorships and the coaching. And then I started a podcast and I would get— again, I mean, the most random people would— it wasn't even like cool brands in the beginning. It was like brands that I didn't even, you know, They weren't like, they weren't like cool brands, but they were like a local, like, bank or something. Would be like, yeah, shout out our name and I'll give you $20 or $100, you know? And so I just got really scrappy with it. And so my friends started reaching out saying, how are you monetizing this? And then that's when it really evolved into me unintentionally teaching essentially what now is business coaching or marketing. But I thought I would just do, book these phone calls with these girls. I remember the first girl who asked me, she was like, how much, what could I pay you for an hour of your time to help me set up my website? Tell me what copy to put on there, help me put together my fitness program online. And I was like, I don't know, like $100 for 90 minutes. And again, thought I was loaded. Like, this is— who else is gonna get $100 for 90 minutes? No one, right? Just, I, I totally did not value myself, which I probably shouldn't have. I was 22. I, I knew what I was doing, but not really. And so, yeah, it, and then it just kept growing and growing and growing. And then that kind of went into more just general entrepreneurship conversations.

Yeah.

And then I just, I mean, it's all a blur now. You have to realize this has been 15 years. Right? So it's not like I actually sit and think about all of it, but I think it's really cool to sit and think and realize how it all evolved from this moment of the blog and then health and wellness, and then it became business and entrepreneurship, and then it's really evolved into more of influencer lifestyle brand, started Soul, started the podcast, and then it really started to blow up when I feel like I started the show and then started putting myself out there to host larger events. And then my brother Mike and I started Soul, and it's just crazy to think what all happened literally from that moment of saying, maybe I'll post this this tip on the internet about how to get abs. Like, it, it was cringy. Of course it was. It was super cringy.

But I know I just got goosebumps though, because when you really like— it's rare that we sit to reflect and think about the early, early days of like how you built everything that you did, because you're just day to day, you're just like in your life of what it is now. But yeah, it is.

It's hard for me to articulate, as you can tell. I'm like, I don't know, it's all a blur, kind of. So much of it. This is 15 years. I'm like, I don't know.

But I mean, to think now, you know, like an 8-figure wellness brand and putting on these events with you know, thousands and thousands of women coming from all over the country and, you know, potentially other parts of the world to see you speak on stage and like that, the magnitude of like that impact and kind of like the mini like revolutions. My mom and I were just talking about this last night, like the, the ripple effect that we have as individuals when we just share about our lives and our experiences. Because my mom was showing me a video of this woman who's like in her 70s and she like lost all this weight and got super fit. And now she has like a million followers or something and she's like almost 80 years old. And but I'm like, just by that woman like showing up and like making videos about her experience, like the internet is such a cool place because all of us now have this crazy ripple effect of like all the women that like went to your event and like it shifted something for them or it opened their mind to something and then they went back to their, you know, jobs or their communities or their businesses and they impacted their clients and the people in their lives. And it's just like you never really get to see the full extent of that ripple effect that what you're doing in the world is having simply just by existing, by being you, by being vulnerable and raw and open and like sharing on your podcast and putting yourself out there, you know, and being brave. Like, you know, the name of your event, like, Pays to Be Brave. Like, it really does, though. Not just like monetarily pays, but like it pays in the impact as well. And that's something that I think, you know, when you're just in the tunnel vision of the next project or the next thing that you have to do or the next task on the to-do list that we can lose sight of. But it is really cool to look back and reflect on like how it all started and how simple and just like none of us knew what we were doing.

Yeah, I don't think we ever really do. It's not even with Sol. It's— I'm not saying this to be a pick-me girl. I feel like there's it's just all moving so fast that it's not like you have a day where you're like, well, we've got it figured out now. I mean, a little bit. I feel like just in this last year was the very first time I heard my brother, who's the CEO of Soul, say, yeah, and we're kind of in a season now where it's a little bit easier. It's flowing more like it's the systems are so in place, the team, the ads. It's just it's a machine now that has grown so much bigger than Mike and I ever intended. But I have never heard my brother say that once. Like, it's always been, we're pushing it, we're doing it. It's, it's a lot. We're hiring, we're firing, we're doing this, we're trying these ads. Oh shit, those ads got shut down. Now we got to try these ads. I mean, anybody who's really in it isn't really thinking, oh wow, like, probably it's good. It keeps you humble a little bit because the carrot keeps moving. Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't know. I have mixed feelings on this. It's good because then you have something to look forward to. You have growth. It can be bad if you don't know how to really look at um, it's bad if you don't have any sense of contentment and you're not able to be proud of yourself and say, oh my gosh, this is— 22-year-old Angie would be flipping her tits right now. She'd be like, oh my God, that's so cool! Wait, you created with your brother and it makes this much and helps this many people? And that's so cool! But it's weird that now I'm in it and it doesn't feel as cool as I thought almost. It's an interesting thing that I've really had to work through is figuring out that. And that's, that's its whole— that's a whole thing in itself. But I think it's this dance between contentment and growth, and also the conversations around, uh, how we put so much of our purpose and our happiness into our careers. And we need to, I think, distribute that into also other areas of life so you're not like, okay, this one thing better bring me all my happiness. Yeah, because then it's like, oh shoot.

But then like if you lean too far out, as, as we'll talk about, you get really bored or depressed or like you feel purposeless. Like if you feel like you achieved it all and you ticked it all off and you're like, all right, cool, like I'm done, let's just hang out now, yeah, then you don't— I mean, that's what they say about people that have, or that, you know, come into so much like wealth, or maybe they're trust fund kids, or they're born into, you know, someone that has a— they inherit a business from their parent, or like they never really have to work for anything. Like, they're the people that are most often destroying themselves health-wise, or doing drugs, or, you know, have these destructive behaviors, or are just depressed and struggle with mental health and not happy. Because part of our human happiness is wanting to achieve something. Like, we need the feeling of forward momentum. Like, we're built to want to grow. And that's part of the reason why the carrot keeps moving is because we're, we're designed to want to grow. Yeah.

Um, yeah.

But when it stops, you kind of feel like that stagnation of like, wait, like, what do I do now? And I think that's a, another testament to why so many people, like, you hear they retire and then they die.

Yeah. Yeah.

Or they retire and then they have like a really hard time, or they come across like all these like health issues. Like, it's weird when you stop.

Moving and you stop feeling that sense of purpose, the brain stops, the body stops. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's this fascinating conversation around, well, who, you know, it's interesting. I lived in Los Angeles for a few years, which was so great, and I'm so glad I did it when I did it. But it's, it was a very interesting experience coming from the Midwest. I'm from Chicago. So to me, you know, people who made $100,000 a year, I thought were like millionaires. I'm like, oh my God, they have $100,000 a year. Like, holy crap. And then I moved to LA. I'm 25 years old and I'm in this bathroom at a yoga studio one day and I overhear this girl saying, yeah, I only make $400,000 a year. I'm basically poor. And I remember I walked out of the bathroom and I'm like, where am I? Oh my God, this is such a different world. Like, people here, holy shit. So it expanded me in so many ways of, oh my God, wait, holy shit, this is not the Midwest anymore. But then it also— I saw the ugly side of Los Angeles and fame and all those things and the amount of times where I would be in a conversation at a coffee shop with a girl who, or a guy, I mean, I'm thinking of someone now who sold a massive, massive DTC brand and he actually shared about it. It's just extremely depressed at 29 years old, doesn't know what to do, has millions of dollars in his bank account. What do you do now? The game is, the game is over, quote unquote. It's that conversation of did he really enjoy the journey and the process? And it's, it's that, yeah, it's like you almost kind of wanna go back to those days where it was the beginning and you're, you're building the team and you're all trying to figure it out and, It's so weird that we so badly want to get out of those days when we're in them.

Yeah.

But then once we're out, we're like, man, remember the good old days when we were all just figuring it out and we're struggling? Yeah.

We're totally glorify it looking back. Yeah. But there is beauty in that, in the process of like working hard on something that you have the vision for and like pouring your heart into it and just that, that hunger and that belief that like this could work. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, my favorite memories with Soul and my brother are not when it was doing its best. It's the funny moments of us putting boxes together in LA in my spare bedroom. And I remember Mike would, at the end of the day, go to the UPS down the street. He'd have to like flirt with the girl at the UPS thing because we had so many boxes and we were doing it in a way where like we weren't an established business yet, but we were like doing it. It was just, it was so messy. Like we didn't know what we were doing, you know? And so I think that the, the moments that I cherish the most are those those gritty moments in the beginning where we really didn't have the answers. And my spare bedroom was our warehouse. Now we actually have this legit huge warehouse and it's kind of, I don't know, I saw it last year and I remember I walked in and it, 'cause it's, it's a lot bigger now. And I remember there was almost this feeling of sadness. It was weird. Yeah. And it was almost like, oh, this is what you wanted. This is what was supposed to happen. Your kid grew up. And I don't know if it's kind of, I'm not a mom yet, but it was like, wait, Oh, they're grown up. Like, they're doing their own thing. And I see this girl and I'm like, who's this? Oh wait, this is the new hire that hired the high— oh, who are you? Oh, it's your employee. I'm like, okay, holy shit. I'm like, oh my God. I get in the car and I was like, what's happening? And I don't know, it was just such a weird moment. So I think I'm in that interesting phase now where I'm trying to really figure it all out and figure out what is, what is it I now want. But I do know for sure, and we'll get into that conversation, that they're— I think either extreme is just really, really dangerous.

Yeah.

Because then you're just in the extremes of, okay, am I either this complete— I'm only obsessed with work and this girl boss and that's all I think about and do, or, you know, now on the internet it's like, oh, tradwife, and I have chickens and I don't want to, um, pursue anything. And so it's, it's this interesting dance that I think we're all trying to figure out. Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. There's no one answer.

I kind of want to talk about your journey with like it outgrowing certain dreams, evolving your priorities, like the moment when you quote unquote retired.

Yeah.

Um, in your early 30s and felt like you had made it and what that looked like. And you decided to kind of move away from teaching all the marketing stuff and writing books and speaking on stages every weekend. What was the catalyst to that? Was it the success of Soul where you felt like you could just kind of, and you, and you deserved that chance to like lean back and have more spaciousness? Was there a breaking point in, in the hustle that you were like, whoa, I feel really burnt out, I can't do this anymore. What was that like? And leading up to you wanting to take that step back of just feeling like, now I can do whatever I want.

Yeah, I feel like it was a few different things. It— and this is— I haven't really shared a ton of this yet, but I feel like it was one, it was 2020, 2021 when it really started. And of course, like, life was nuts for everybody then. The world was crazy. And I feel like energetically everyone did kind of take a downshift. They had to. And we were at home, we had a lot of space and time to think about who am I, what do I want. It was also coincidentally when I turned 30, 31, and the amount that I've changed from 30 to 35 is— oh my God, it's actually been my biggest change, my biggest growth spurt. I'm like, holy shit, I'm the same but I am totally not because I went through so much. And so I think one, it was, yeah, I guess like COVID stuff and just dealing with stress and bullshit on the internet and being really having to sort through all of that. And, and then it really made me step back and think, what am I even doing? Like, I'm pushing so much and putting so much of my identity into this. And I financially got to a place where— and again, I feel like such a douchebag even saying this, so I've never shared it because it feels so douchey. But then I also feel like I owe it to women to be honest. And I also worked for this to happen. I was in a place where I didn't have to work. Then again, I know someone's listening like, oh cool, wow, that's the most like privileged thing to say. I know they're saying that right now, but hear me out. It's actually one of the worst things that can happen to someone. It is arguably the worst thing that happened to me. And to have my fiancé say that, like, we were on a walk one day and he was like, you know what's crazy is I actually wish that you were broke again. And it was so interesting. I'm like, why? And not that he actually did, but what he was basically trying to say is you had this dream that then if you're retired at 32-ish, you're just going to like frolic in the field all day and then your life's complete and you don't have to do anything. Now, obviously, if I had children, it'd be a different conversation. If I had them at 30, I'd obviously have that as my job. So I want to give that context because I know moms listening are like, well, this sounds nice, but I didn't yet, you know? So when you're 30, you have a lot of talent, a lot of fucking passion in you. You've got a lot of creativity in you and you don't have children yet. What do you think I'm doing all day? I— you can do it for a few months and then you start to self-destruct, like not self-destruct, but you start to create chaos a little bit because you're fucking bored. But you don't know that's what's going on. You just think, oh, this is the inner work, this is the healing. Oh, this is what's supposed to be happening. I'm supposed to be losing my mind. And then you go into, maybe I'll just go do a retreat here, maybe I'll do some mushrooms here, maybe I'll do this, this therapy here, maybe I'll do that. Again, it sounds cool and all, but it's really just a way to avoid just getting into action or taking, you know, being of service. And, and again, I think there's this fine line, which I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this too. There's this fine line of doing the inner work, doing the healing, like do the mushrooms, do the enemas, go to your therapist, do your thing. But there's this fine line of actually where if you are too self-focused on you and just in your head all day, you're— one, you're going to lose your shit. You're— I, I experienced it. You're just going to lose your shit. Two, you're not really taking that energy and putting it out and being of service. That's truly the only way to be happy is to help others. Like, it is. It's cheesy, but it's so true. And so that— I experienced what it was like to feel like I am not of service to the world. Like, I am not of service to anyone. I'm just in my fucking thoughts all day. Is that cool for a little bit? Sure. Is it also really sad and kind of— it's lonely, lonely, and kind of, what are you, what are you really doing here on this planet? I don't think we're meant to be in our own thoughts and constantly in the healing girl era, like, oh, what is this? Is this another childhood wound? Is this another childhood wound I have to heal? It's like, listen, Deborah, sometimes you just gotta like get out of your own fucking head, cut your losses. We all have childhood wounds. And just do, just do something. Go help someone. I don't care if it makes a ton of money or no money, just go help others. And so, yeah, it was really interesting because it caused a lot of, a lot of stuff with my, my, my, my, my partner and I in our relationship, you know, because he was meeting a new version of me too. And again, I thought this would be the dream. Isn't this the dream?

Like, you're just—

you're done. You don't have to work. I built passive income. I set up all my systems. I didn't have to— like, this is supposed to be the dream. And I got to tell you guys, it was— it was really bad. Like, I had never experienced such deep depression in my life. And then, you know, coming outta 2022, then it's like, it felt like then everybody was kind of coming back online, which was really cool. And I just, I was so deep in that it's, it's taken so long to get out of that hole because it felt like I just, I just went from 100 to 0.

Yeah.

Way too fast. There was no gradual transition. And so yeah, it was just a lot on my nervous system. And, um, now finding that fire again when you've just blown it out is, it can take some time. It really can. And now my priorities are different because I do want my number one value to be my family. And I do wanna be this incredible mom. That's like one of my biggest dreams. So, and then being on that journey, you know, of, of fertility and waiting to have children, like that's a whole nother thing that took me down. And so it's, I shouldn't say took me down, but it's been a lot. So it's kind of, it just, my 30 to 35, it's just been a fucking lot. Like just nothing I had planned on my bingo card. Yeah. But here we are. And I think that what I have really realized is when you are a woman who is extremely creative and passionate. And again, this doesn't mean you need to go make 9 figures and be a girl boss, but if you have creativity in you and this fire in you to get it, and you need to get it out and it needs to be expressed— if it's not expressed, it— you— it— what do you think it does? It doesn't just fizzle. It, it like festers inside of you.

Yeah.

And it's, it's a really interesting part of creativity and art that I think needs to be talked about more.

And you mentioned that, that feeling of like your purpose is not being expressed when when it festers inside of you because you're not doing anything to exercise it. Yeah, that feels just as bad as burnout. And so it's like those two sides of the pendulum swing. If you like, go so far over into the other side where you're hustling your face off and running yourself into the ground, that obviously doesn't feel good and is not sustainable. But the other side of the coin, which is, you know, you being like, I'm retired at 32, woo! And then, you know, you're depressed because you feel like there's no purpose and there's no growth and there's no forward momentum. And what is there to wake up for every day? Exactly. Exactly.

And I, I think that a lot of it also is social media. Again, this is— I feel like what I experienced, I've heard from hundreds of women in my DMs, so I know I'm not alone. Collectively, there was this shift of, I think 2015 to 2020 was this whole like more of the hot girl boss era. I mean, you know, I, I was like an OG in that space, so I almost feel like I, I started that trend with a lot of women. So I'm like, oh my God, I created this. And then for me to be like, what the fuck are we all doing? This is way too intense. But then also to now look back and be like, wait, the— this whole thing that was sold now that, oh, the answer is now soft girl era, right? And right, I shouldn't have any ambition. My ambition needs to be—

want to be protected and provided for, protected and provided 100%. I do low life, right?

If you make a dollar as a woman, now you're in your masculine energy and now you're a man. Like, you got a penis if you make $1, right? And I need to put this, this, this priority in this dream and this focus of being a mother, which I know is going to be arguably the greatest thing I do and such a huge part of my life, I need to make that the everything and get rid of anything else. It was very black or white versus the and sign. And it's so ironic that the tattoo I have— I only have one tiny tattoo and it's the ampersand. And it's really about that concept of how do I live a life where I get to be both? Because I saw a mom who I felt like gave a lot of that up for me, and it ended up creating a lot of resentment and codependency, actually. And so I'm trying to figure out like, how do I not do that? But then I also don't want to be that mom who's just like, yeah, hell no. So it's this interesting thing. And I think the reason why this conversation probably feels like there is— it's this weird nuanced answer is because this is the new modern woman dilemma. Yeah. This isn't like we haven't lived in a time where we have had the opportunity to have technology. You can make money from home. But then I also have this strong maternal desire to have these kids. So it's, it's I want to juggle both. I want to do both. So now the conversations that I'm having and the women that I'm looking up to are these women who are like, oh, absolutely, I do both. Here's how I do it though. Like, I have help, or this is how I do it, or I have this type of business model. And hearing that's been really cool because then it makes it feel like the— this, this gray, this gray area versus like, oh, I'm either this girl boss who lives at airports and fuck my kids, or I never see them. I just FaceTime them once a week, you know. Sorry, Mommy's busy writing books, or I'm like frolicking in the field with my cows and my sundress, right? You got to be always wearing a sundress if you're the tradwife. And yeah, my husband is like, hey babe, made a zillion dollars today, you good? Yes. Oh my God, I need you. Sorry, I need you. Sorry. No, like, these both are just— I've seen both, I've talked to both, and it's just so funny because even my friends here who do have farms and stuff, they're like, dude, let me tell you something. Farms are a lot of work. They're like, dude, bitch, the stuff you do on the internet way easier than this. I'm like, what are you talking about? They're like, you get to talk to yourself on your phone all day? I wish. They're like, I'm making sure chickens don't shit on each other, my kids are screaming, this person's doing this. It's, it's a job. It is arguably the hardest job in the world is to mother and homestead. And so yeah, I have so much reverence and respect for that. So I also, I think a lot of this— I'll close this out— this is you have to have a lot of self-awareness of who you are as a woman and how your brain works. Like, are you a woman who that would be a perfect fit for you and your brain and your skill set? Or are you someone who that just wouldn't be? And just be real instead of thinking that I'm going to become this domestic goddess when maybe that's not who I'm supposed to be. I don't know.

Right.

It's like a lot of it's like, who the fuck are you? Because what was going to work for— well, I feel like you and I are very similar, but what's going to work for a girl down the street, it might not be what works for you when it comes to your life and how that's all going to pan out. So I don't know.

Some people really are built for the soft life, I think. Really? It's not a—

how will I know? Is there a quiz online?

We need to make one.

But okay, here's the thing, talking about the nuance, the gray area. I argue that like it's moments of soft though. Like on the weekends I don't want to work and I love slow mornings and I don't want to be rushed in the morning and I want to— I'm still a baby grandma, I want to take my baths. Like I want a life that feels— I want a lot of peace in my life. I want a regulated nervous system. I want peace. But how do I do that and also still have a perfect fuck ton of ambition and purpose outside of just sipping my coffee. So it's an interesting thing. And I also think it depends what season of life you're in, right? I mean, I had a 70-year-old woman comment on the post yesterday and said, that's great, if I was your age again, I'd probably feel the same, but now this is, this is what my life looks like. I'm like, girl, yeah, when I'm 70, maybe I'll feel that way too. Yeah, but I gotta like get what I gotta get out of my system before then so I don't have fucking resentment. Yeah, so we're in different seasons. You have grandchildren. I'm like, what do you— so again, we can't compare to the season of life that we're And I'm sure a 22-year-old listening is like, what the hell are you guys even talking about? So it's, it's really, I think it depends on where you're at. Yeah. And what you want. So I don't know, what are your, I need to hear a little bit of your thoughts on it. You know, I, I feel really similarly, but I think if I know you, I, I've listened to one of your episodes recently. It was so good. It was like you basically saying like, oh, I'm, I'm in my, like, I'm in my, I, I call it fire, like masculine energy fire, whatever you wanna call it. I call it fire. It's like I'm in that era right now. Again, it's, it's so who I am and I'm just gonna own it. I'm, I'm sick of these fucking like, are you feminine or masculine? It's like, I don't know, we're just all of it.

That's the thing. And I think that's like, that's at least what's been reflected back to me a lot of like something that people are just a man to me.

Hey, don't forget that every month we are picking a listener of the month to win $50 in cash just for showing love to the show. All you have to do is leave an epic review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, screenshot the review before you hit submit, and DM that screenshot to us on Instagram at Makeshift Happen Podcast. And that's it. I want to thank you for being such a loyal listener and show my appreciation by putting a little extra cash in your pocket. I know it's super easy not to do it, but every single rating and review seriously helps the show rank higher and reach new people, so we appreciate them more than you know. We'll announce the next winner at the end of the month slide into your DMs if it's you. So keep an eye out and good luck. Love you guys and thanks for supporting Makeshift Happen.

No, I feel like you are— you're making $2 from this podcast alone. Definitely a man. No, I just like— okay, if like if social media didn't exist and we didn't even know about these terms, we wouldn't even be thinking, who is this masculine? This— I don't know, you're just like— you're, you're all—

that's who you are. That's who you are. But I think that's one thing about me is like I've always kind of been both and like had that like very much like yin and yang like balance. Like there's certain parts, like you said, of your life where you do want to have a lot of peace or softness or flow. Like I have certain boundaries with things, not because they're boundaries, it's just because the way that I like them. Like I don't like to work on the weekends. When I travel, I don't want to be working while I'm traveling unless I'm traveling for work. But you know, like when we go on trips and stuff, like I'm not the person that's like recording my masterclasses from like Italy or something. Like, if I'm in Italy, I want to be in fucking Italy.

Like, I don't want to be working.

So there's that. But then there's also the side of me that I love getting— when I'm inspired and I feel that creative spark, like, I love digging into the work. It feels so fun, it feels so purposeful, it feels exciting. And I think that's a beautiful gift also, to feel the fire. And I think when you do have that, you should lean into it and not have to be made to feel bad that you're overworking or that it's too much, because you should know. As long as you have the self-awareness, you'll know when it's too much for you. Yeah, you'll know when it doesn't feel good anymore. But when you're in one of those seasons where you're like, I'm in love with the work, like, I'm so hungry for this, like, let's do it, let's record 5 podcasts today, like, fuck it, like, when you're in that, like, you should— I think you should lean in. I think you should do it.

And arguably, again, I'm just saying out loud what people are probably thinking listening or watching this: you're not a parent yet, so guess what? You get to fucking do that, right? You get to be selfish right now, and you get to put in these, these these years of this, because there will be a day if you have children that you'll have to make that decision where you will ideally prioritize them, maybe over 5 a day, or who knows, you have to move it around, or things will be a little different. And so to me, it's like, when you're in it, like, use these, use this time, be fucking in it. Because I know there's women who are like, fuck, I wish I would have done that before kids. Like, the amount of women who are now saying that to me, which is so funny because I'm dealing with the grass is always greener— I mean, the amount of women who I'm jealous because they have 3 kids and they post a cute family photo shoot outside. I'm like, fuck, what did I do? I should have done that earlier. Why didn't I do that? Oh, you know, all the stress. And they're DMing me and they're like, oh my God, girl, I wish I would have built a brand before or had some sort of financial stability or known who I was a little bit more before children. So it's so funny that I'm jealous of her, she's jealous of me, and it's like such an interesting place to be at where I'm like, a lot of this is social media and the internet just really making us think as women that we're either not enough or we should be doing something differently, or this ambition is I don't know, masculine or something, when I argue it's the most like— I don't see that at all when I think of your drive. I think it's the most feminine thing you could do is to be creating things that you love. Like, I think that's like so hot and so cool for a girl to be doing, you know? Yeah. So it's weird that I even let these reels that girls would post like get in my head and then I thought like, oh wait, shit, I need a sundress. Fuck. But wait, I don't even— I don't even wear sundresses. Yeah. Why would I go change my— that's— I want to wear like what you're in. Look, you and I are wearing— this is what I wear. Little matching vibe. I'm going to wear a hoodie. Oh yeah. Oh my God, we have the same shoes. We didn't plan this. We did not. Wow. Holy crap. So, you know, I think again, even as a woman who I would say is most— has been very confident most of my life, I think I still let the noise of social get into me. And I think that's also what happened is I just let social get to me in that time where I was— had more free time. And I was just like, man, I guess I need to be her. And I guess I need to do that. And she looks happy and she looks happy. But you know, social media. Yeah. We, we don't know the full story.

No. And that's something, that's something else that I was gonna say before too, is like, it's always the it's always the perception of the other side that you get sold that makes you feel like that's going to be your solution. Like, everything looks like the magic pill.

Yeah.

Like, whether you are the mom at home that has 3 kids and you look down and you've got stains all over you and you've barely slept, and you're like seeing someone with this shiny brand, you know, making a bunch of money, and you're like, shit, like, yeah, I want to do that. Like, where's my fire? Like, I want to, I want to feel purposeful. And you're kind of being sold that outer vision of it. But the same is, you know, the opposite for when you were at the end of that era and you saw the shiny image of like the softness and the healing and the journaling and just waking up on your own. So much journaling, just waking up in your own time and like having these slow mornings. And it's like, I want that.

Like, yeah, like she looks happy, I'll be happy.

But the same thing of like when you were growing up, like the girls on the magazine is like Yeah, she looks— but it's always the image. Like, yeah, it's so important that we take everything with a grain of salt and always know that it's not the full story.

Yeah. Yeah. And think of— I mean, gosh, and what we should get into this on my show with you too. It's the— I think it's hilarious now because I can see everything through the lens of that's not the full story. That's not the full story. I just scroll.

Totally.

You're not sold anymore. I'm not sold anymore. I'm not getting proof.

I say that all the time. Like, I don't need to buy any of your shit.

Yeah.

Unless it's skincare, then I'm fucking—

you're like, then I'm into it. But I just now I actually almost— it's probably too much. I'm like, Oh, she posted a really cute photo with the guy that she likes and she made a 10-paragraph post. They're like, how would they ask her? They totally just had a massive fight before this photo and he was screaming, I hate you, you suck. And then she's like, hold on babe, one picture. Oh my God, love this man, he's my hero, xoxo, my king. You know, because I've been there. I've literally been there in those moments in LA where I've seen the girl, or anywhere— not trying to trash on LA— but I've been there where they post the photo, they're this hot, cool couple, and I'm like, I literally saw you guys. I've heard the shit you guys have gone through, and that's fine, we all go through shit. But like, let's also not— I don't know, I don't know the answer, but I'm like, dude, that's also not it. It's the same thing with the whole wedding culture. I think there's 19-year-old girls now who think like, if my wedding is not the perfect roses and it's $100,000 and it's not bougie and it's not Instagram-worthy cool, am I even getting married. And it's like, dude, your marriage should be about your marriage, not your party. Your wedding is one fucking day. And so I'm actually like, I kind of want to post nothing at my wedding. I want it to just be like, so cool that like, we just went to Benihana's, you know? It was so cool.

You'll never see—

you'll never see it. Slash, we probably just went to Target and then Benihana's. And like, we just— it was so chill that like, I don't need— almost to prove to my younger self like, oh look, you didn't do it for Instagram. You did it because you actually wanted to be married. And so I don't know, I think there's a lot that social is putting on young women around all these different areas that I just wish maybe there was a disclaimer on every photo at the bottom, like, disclaimer, this couple actually hates each other. Disclaimer, this wedding put them into massive debt and now they're stressed out.

The duality of authenticity is like, yeah, it is authentic to be fucking happy and to celebrate things when that feels true for you in the same way. But I think people— most people assume when you hear authenticity, it's like, oh, you're finally real, or it's so good to see this side. Like, people love to see you having a shit time.

Yeah, they love that.

Like, you'll get the most amount of reach, comments, views if you are crying on camera or, oh yeah, you know, sharing really vulnerable about a hard thing that you're going through, which it makes sense. Like, it's not always malicious. It is people feeling seen by someone else who's like having a similar struggle. But I think there is a challenge when you are also a very happy, successful, fun person, and that is a large part of your own authenticity is having a great time in life. Yeah. Um, it's, it's hard to meet the bar that we've set for like what people feel accounts for authenticity.

Yeah, what a weird world we live in. It's like such a meta conversation, right? It's like, oh wait, I've been too happy, hold on, let me make up something. Okay, let me see. Oh God, hey guys, I literally had explosive diarrhea today. Like, I don't know, like, you just gotta figure out something, gotta get relatable. But no, I think real relatability is, is when it's actually genuinely what you're going through.

And yeah, I had— I just had a conversation recently. Someone who was like, they didn't know me that well, but they knew one of my best friends was asking about like how I am offline or like behind the scenes. And they're like, my friend was like, no, she's actually just really happy. Like she's actually just really, she loves what she does. She's really successful. She's so happy in her relationship. Like what you see online from her is actually how she is. Like she just, yeah. Like it's not that I've not been vulnerable. I definitely have in those moments. Mm-hmm. But to your point, I'm not gonna make up things to be sad about just so that you think I'm relatable.

We should post a crying video today. We'll think of something.

Well, this'll be the thing.

Like her cat. You're— well, because you are. You're, you're like beautiful and you're like successful. Like, come on. Like, you know what I mean? There is some— the irony is there's gonna be girls who just hate that because they just hate that. Like, how does she get to be pretty and rich? I understand. There's got to be something wrong with her. She's— she has— does she have an extra toe? And like, there's some—

come on.

And my fiancé. You really gotta make up something.

Yeah, you're happy.

Exactly. And you speak Spanish. We gotta make something up here. I know. I'm kind of like, all right, we're gonna find it. Okay guys, we're gonna find out what's wrong. Chris You're gonna have to dig.

We're gonna find—

I have to dig deep when we record for your show. She find the lies. Extra toe. Maybe she's got some weird disease. Okay, I'm not gonna say that, that's mean. Um, maybe there's got to be something off with her. Maybe she has 4 nipples. We don't— you know, maybe her cat of 50 years that she loves just died, so she's got to post a video of Mr. Stinky who she loved. And, you know, I don't know, we gotta, we gotta find something.

Yeah, it's tough out here.

No, I don't get what you mean though. It's like you're kind of like, well, this is who I am though, so I'm not gonna make up stuff also, which is great. You shouldn't have to. So it's funny.

Yeah, yeah, it's just a weird like world that we live in with the internet.

If you're happy, then they're mad, and then if you're sad, then they're like, show us you— you're like, you can't win.

Well, and it's also like depending on what you're celebrating, people are like really like over the moon happy for you, or they're like medium happy for you. Like if it's, if it's engagement, marriage, kids, over the moon happy for you, thousands of comments, everyone's celebrating. This— the energy in the chat is, yes! If you hit a milestone in your career or are doing something awesome in your business, or you made a bunch of money, or— it's like, yeah, it's like, it's like, I feel like there's an energy of like, you feel like you, you feel like you have to be happy for other people so that you're not a grouch, and also because you're like No, you know, that it's like bad mindset or bad energy to like not be happy for people when they're doing those things. Yeah, but there's definitely a different level of energy for women when it's like career stuff.

That is so true. Well, I think—

and you can see it in the engagement.

You're right. Clear.

I just got engaged and I know that that post popped off way more than anything else I've ever done in my life or career.

They're like, oh my God, a girl fell in love. This is so original. Like years ago.

Yeah.

You're like, come on, you know. And my friend was joking about that the other day. She said to me, she said something really funny. Is she— and she's pregnant and married, and she was like, dude, like, people respond to these posts like they've never seen this. Oh, a 30-year-old woman and her husband got married and had a kid. It's not that— like, it's not that original. Okay, that's really mean to say, but it's just really not. Like, it's not.

But like, yeah.

And I was like, oh my God, that's so funny and so true. But like, nobody would say that out loud. She's like, I know, people respond to these posts like they had never seen this before in their life.

Yeah.

But then when I post something about that really was like very hard for me in my creative endeavors, in my career, it's like kind of crickets. It's like, wait, weird. Why did you only celebrate when I'm in love with some dude? But then when I did something for myself, why is there no one commenting? And I was like, that is so true. We were voice noting about it. I'm like, what a weird culture.

It's weird.

Yeah. Oh, we're just culturally wired to like really celebrate women for those marriage and babies, and to think that if once they've done that, they've checked off the boxes and they must be happy and they must be successful.

Yeah.

And Yeah, and I think that's also what's led to so much of the pressure for me too, where I've had to really think like, wait, hold on, like, that doesn't— those things can't be the only things that define you. Yeah, because then those are the only things that define you, and then it becomes kind of like a trap. So I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting. But I think this conversation is going to be really healing for a lot of women because regardless of what side of the aisle you're on with this or what season of life you're in, you will relate to knowing that it always feels like the grass is greener or there's something that, you know, you have this side of it, but you want that side of it and or you got that side of it and then you realize that it didn't make you happy. And there's just a lot of confusion, I think. And that's just the reality of the world that we live in today, especially for women. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And having to, you know, constantly— well, we go through these evolutions and, you know, I think your 30s is a major rebrand. Like, I just call it the 30s rebrand.

Yeah.

I feel like once you hit 30, Yeah, you just, you give less fucks, but you're also awakened to like a lot of new things about who you are. And a lot of things come online in terms of, you know, the vision of your future that you see for yourself. If kids like are in the picture for you, I feel like that really, the spidey senses of like that coming online nearly happens in your 30s. Looking back on, you know, you mentioned the past 5 years have been really challenging, but also I think really beautiful because they've led you to this place, what are some of like the best parts of this new decade and some of the biggest lessons maybe?

That's such a good question. Wow, like my own family doesn't even ask me that. This is profound. I'm like, this is so— that's such a good question. Um, yeah, I feel like, um, especially the motherhood journey and, and going through what, like being canceled on the internet or trying to be, and like just these things that were— have been a lot on my system. I think it's made me have this level of self-confidence and grit that I don't think I would have had if I didn't go through these things. And I think also being in what I call right now the waiting room, and, uh, that's the intention is to write a book on it one day. I've learned so much about myself that I don't think I would have learned if I had children when I thought I was gonna have them. Um, because when you're in that room, you are faced with your, with yourself. You're picking your nose and you're sitting on the couch and you're like, oh shit, this isn't the plan or what I thought was it was supposed to be. But even my friends who know me so well, I mean, the woman that I am now even from 2 years ago is completely different. Like, I'm so much wiser, I'm more grounded, I'm gritty. I've gone through depression, I've gone through pain, I've gone through waiting. I've gone through— um, waiting develops you into a woman who is just— you're such a different fucking woman. And this isn't to put this down on any women who it happened for them quickly and easily. They're gonna have their own fucking things with motherhood that are going to be hard for them. If there's a hard part for everyone, I truly believe that. But this is a unique hard that I think only if you've gone through it you understand, and it's, it's made me, um, gritty. It's made me also— I already obviously love comedy, and that's my biggest passion, is to keep growing in that space. It's also, anytime you're going through hard shit, if you can find the funny— like, it's challenged my ability to, to use my gift of humor and just like, how fucking funny is this right now? Like, that I'm, you know, in this season. And so I think it's actually had so many gifts, but I don't know, I think I'm still trying to, to alchemize them. Yeah, to alchemize them and to see it like that, because I definitely have days where I'm like, what the fuck? But I think that, yeah, there's definitely a lot of gifts in adversity. It's, again, it's cheesy to say, but it's only in that that you're actually able to really grow. And I think that it's going to make me a better mom. And I also think that my empathy for women now has grown so much. I was always a girl's girl, but now I like, I'm like, holy shit, whoa. When I hear women who've gone through crazy stories of becoming a mother, I'm like, oh my God, like, holy shit, like, we're in this together. And there's this unspoken respect and reverence that I just feel now for being a woman that is really cool. And when that day comes, my appreciation for my children now is going to be so much more than I think it would have been if it came really, really easily to me. Yeah. And so that in itself, I guess, is a gift, you know, like it has to be. So yeah, I mean, and I know there's— this is mostly a women's show, so there's got to be women listening right now who are like, holy shit, I'm in that, or I've been in that and remember that. So yeah, I'm just I'm just different, you know? But again, I don't know, me at 30 thought like I'd have like my 4 kids by now, my little white picket fence. And, you know, it was such a different plan. But I think as women, like, we're just so— we're just definitely the cooler species, man. We just— we go through a lot and we're just— we're so magical. We're so cool.

Like, so many of us just hold it so well. Like, yeah, I think that's the respect that you're talking about is like knowing that so many women are holding so much. Yeah. So well. Yeah.

In the scenes.

Yeah. And even when, you know, I think now when I see women online with their children and they're also running a business and they're also wanting to be a great wife and like, that's just, I'm like, wow, I'm really starting to wake up to the reality of like, it's, it's a lot and that's gonna take a lot of energy and dedication. And it's, it's like, I, I think to have that life where you have it all, quote unquote, is, is a lot to want.

Yeah.

And, but I, I do want it all and so I'm gonna try to figure it out. Yeah.

Why don't I have it all?

I'll do it all. I'll get help. Don't worry. Yeah. Have someone help out. But I do, uh, I want to experience the taste of like, I wanna taste all the different things in life and experience all of it.

So yeah, that's like, so been my motto since the beginning is just wanting to have the full spectrum of like the human experience.

Yeah. That's what, so some of my friends said the other day, she's like, I think that's almost what you want is you wanna experience it cuz you wanna know you've experienced it all. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, is that normal? Do you think a lot of people feel that way? Maybe not, but yeah, I don't know.

Okay, let's close with a round of Smash or Pass.

Oh, so fun.

Okay, this is like a random as fuck edition because just a bunch of random things. I just felt like that would be fun.

I was thinking of doing that with you, so we can, we can do Smash or Pass.

Okay, um, okay, so Smash or Pass, uh, skydiving.

Oh, pass. Hard pass for me. Hard pass.

I don't need to die. No, it can't be that much fun that it's worth it in case I die.

100%. Here's the real deal. I would, even if I took 80 of my out-of-office gummies and I'm like, I'm doing this, let's go. I'm up there, right? We're up there. Guess what's gonna happen? Chicken out. Literally. And if you push me off, I'm just gonna flail, just flail and shit my pants and then just fall on the ground. I just, I can't.

No.

Okay.

So that's a pass for both of us. The keto diet.

I've done it. I'm gonna say pass now. Long term, I think, I think women need some— I think we need some carbs. So I, I'm gonna say pass now, but for some people in certain times, it's good.

Okay. Skinny dipping in the ocean.

Um, smash. Sure. That sounds great.

Smash that.

Yeah, I've done it. It sounds great.

It's fun. There's something about water. But like, it's not the same as a shower, like, yeah, or a bath. What is it? It feels so good.

Yeah, to be naked in water, one with nature.

I think it returns you to the state that you were in where you were in the womb.

Ah, it does. Uh, oh my God. And I think it's just— what is more freeing than being naked in an ocean?

Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of scary though, a little bit in the ocean. No, just like lightly in, not like, not deep in, not where the sharks are, just shallow.

Yeah.

Okay. What do you think about natural birth? Like when that time comes, would you smash or pass that?

What do you mean by natural birth?

Like unmedicated? Okay.

'Cause I'm, we're an Austin, Texas girl. So everyone's like, what does that mean? Are we talking like these girls who do it in the woods and no one's there? No. 'Cause trust me, I have a few friends who did it. They're like, yeah, I just in the river thing. I literally have some, yeah. A fucking waterfall. I said, girl, what are you doing? What are you doing?

Wow.

Okay.

So we'll just say unmedicated, like home birth.

No, I'm pass actually, which I same think most people would say, oh my God, Angie Lee is so crunchy. I'm so holistic. I don't even take Midol, like da da da. But I'm gonna tell you, I'm saving up all my crunchy points for that day in my life.

Cash it in for that epidural, baby.

Cash it in. Gimme like, gimme that epidural before it even starts and let me just be in a goddamn hospital because God forbid if something happens, I'm sorry, I'm gonna want some modern technology. I don't want, what do I have? What do I have in my house? Some sticky tape and a, and a, a marker. What's gonna happen if a soul bath shit's not going well? A soul bath, mom? You're like, oh no, their leg is stuck. Hold on, got my CBD cream. It's not gonna do shit. Let's just be real. Like, I'm so against a lot of things in, in now the current medicine, but also there's a time and place, and that's the time and that's the place.

That's the time and that's the place.

I agree. I don't even feel it. I've had painful cramps. I'm good. Yeah, I'm good.

I have a low pain tolerance, so I'm passing on that. Okay, McDonald's fries and a McFlurry.

Oh my God, it's been so long since I've had one. Okay, are we talking like to be healthy?

Or I could right now, if after this interview I was like, let's go to Mickey D's, we're getting some fries and an Oreo McFlurry.

Oh my God, it would taste so good, but it—

I might—

I mean, my digestive system would not agree because it's been so long. It'll be like, what is this? Are you smashing or passing? Sure, we're smashing. Sure, it's gonna be worth— it's gonna be worth the digestive issue. It's gonna be worth the explosive diarrhea.

Okay, what about the Mile High Club?

Is this where you have sex on a plane?

Yeah.

Listen, no. Okay, because here's why. First of all, I hate flying. I don't like planes. I'm not up there feeling anything other than like praying to Jesus that I live. Okay? I'm not like in the mood. Okay? I'm like, oh my God. So here's the deal. You're like chugging CBD. Yeah, I'm chugging CBD. I'm praying. I'm doing my fucking weird tapping shit. I don't even know if I'm doing it right. I'm like, oh my God, don't Kraft tea. Yeah, EFT from some girl on TikTok that I saw does it. Also, the bathroom— I, I'm like a small person, I barely fit in there. How is this going down? I know in my smut books it seems like it works. I don't think it's like showers. How is this actually working? Come on. It's— yeah, I think on paper it sounds great. In reality, in a, in a movie or in a book, it's erotic. In real life, like, get out of my way! Oh, that's my Get out of here! I'm so— ew, get away! Oh, I'm stuck. Like, it wouldn't be half face up against a dirty, like, airport bathroom wall. No, and like, everyone's been in there with their smells. Oh God, no, we're not doing it.

The only— the, uh, the— I would say the only exception is if you were on a private jet.

Oh yeah, of course. You're like, the only exception is if you're super rich and you've got space and there's a bed up there and a I don't know. It smells good and it's just great, you know? And it's— it's got the vibes. But a regular Southwest flight is not happening.

No, it's not happening, girl. I was on Southwest on my way down here. Let me tell you, it's not happening. Okay, what about writing a memoir? Would you ever?

I would maybe write a book one day, but I don't— it's not gonna be a memoir. No, no, no, no, I'm not Britney Spears. It's not gonna be like, oh, my life's not exciting. No, it's gonna be about like a topic or It's gonna be like a topic or something that helps women. It's not gonna be like, when I was born, like, no, I'm not a celebrity.

Okay, okay. What about giving up caffeine?

Smash. I don't do caffeine, so—

me neither.

This is my natural psycho energy. You don't do any caffeine?

Well, I guess that's a lie. I have matcha, but I don't do any coffee.

Same. I didn't— we suck. I did matcha this morning. We're liars.

We just lied.

We just lied on camera. Caffeine— matcha's like double coffee.

No, it's not. It has L-theanine. It's fine.

I only did a teaspoon. Okay.

Cancels it out.

No. Cancels it out. Okay.

I was going to say steamy fiction romance novels, but you just mentioned your smut books. They're the best. That's a hard smut.

I'm sorry. I went through a season where I didn't read any personal development books because it's like all the same shit. Believe in yourself. I'm like, okay. And then like my editor was like, you need to read this book. And I'm like, okay. 10 pages in, I'm like, oh my God, this is the best thing ever, because it really takes your brain off of your whole day, work, anything. I think it's actually really healthy for our brains. Yeah, it's personal development.

It's personal development, um, for your pas—

yeah.

Anyway, homestead living, like, literally, do you think you'd ever do it?

I think the idea of it sounds cool, and I think I want to because I would love to try something new and try it out, but then Clay will laugh his ass off if he was sitting here right now and go, Angie is not, not cut out for that. Angie does not have the skills to run a whole farm and shit. What is she gonna do? Is she gonna complain 10 minutes in that she's hot and like wanna go inside the AC?

And the moment that you actually have to start killing the animals, good luck.

Wait, why do you have to, you have to kill them?

That's what they do on homesteads.

Really?

The ones who are, they grow all, I mean, they like the livestock and everything and, and then they eat it. They live off of their own land. Yeah, I mean, I saw a video once and that took me so far out of the homestead algorithm. I was like, I do look like a chicken, not interested, not interested. The woman was like, we're gonna show you now how we— how they basically murder the chicken.

Oh my God, yeah.

And they're kind of like, what is this like, a routine thing that they slice their heads off? And I was like, yep, not for me.

Oh my God, I do want one just to get the eggs, but let's be honest, like, I just go to the farmer's market on the weekends because, yeah, I don't want to have to deal with— they poop a lot and you have to clean that all up. And it's not—

my mom is laughing her ass off right now. She has so many chickens. She does.

But they are so cute though. I go into my friend's house, my best friend has chickens, right? So I went there, one of them's like in the garage. We're like, how did it get in here? Another one's up there. Like, they're just all over the place.

Hang out, they go around.

And I was just like, oh, let's go feed them. And I thought it was going to be this like, you know, I don't know, Sarah Plain and Tall, like this like beautiful moment where I'm just like flowing in the wind.

Yeah, eat nicely out of your—

no, there's just like shit everywhere. And they're like— and they're just all like jumping on top of each other. And I'm like getting in there and I'm like, oh my God, one of them's like trying to peck at me. And I was like, this is not what I thought it was.

Again, the vision that we're sold.

Yeah. So I thought it was very relaxing and peaceful, and my friend was like, dude, no, they're chickens. Like, they're gonna get you. They're hungry. And you gotta like make sure they like go inside at night. It's a whole thing. It's the whole thing. It is a whole thing. How would I do that? And dogs and children and I gotta feed myself. Yeah. Come on.

And then if you add kids to it. Yeah.

And post funny videos on the internet. I can't, a woman can't do that much.

No, no.

And yeah.

And be funny on top of all of that.

It's too much.

You're asking a lot of us now.

Okay.

Uh, last one. Pole dancing. No, what's the first one?

I love dancing. A pole, I'm gonna be honest, it sounds like a lot of work. It's not fun. I want to let go.

I think you get really bruised up.

Yeah, I don't need the bruises. It sounds like a lot of core strength on the inner thighs.

Yeah, I'm not even kidding though.

Yeah, that's how much work.

Pass. I think it's gonna be a pass for me. I would do like a light pole dancing class, or like, I don't need to be an expert, or like, go down.

Yeah, yeah.

But to just do a little dance class, I think it'd be fun.

Yeah, just like a just for a reel.

Exactly. Just to post, just to do exactly what we talked about, which was to post on social media, use it for things that you don't actually do.

But exactly. But it would look really good on a reel. They'd be like, oh my God, she's so hot. She's so cool.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it would get so many clicks. But like, you're like, give me the fuck off this pole when you're done.

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's, that's about it for today.

This was so good though, Angie. Really?

I love this conversation. I know everyone listening is like, dying laughing with us, but also so relatable, so fun. Thank you for coming on. You're just—

you're always the best. Thank you so much. That went from so deep to pole dancing. So thank you guys for listening. If we have—

we have one thing, it's range.

Range. Listen, maybe you cried, maybe you left.

We're talking about the balance. Yes, we are the women that do it all.

We actually— we are. We're gonna get chickens, we're gonna do it all, we're gonna find a way.

All right, you guys, thanks for tuning in. Love you. Bye.

Well, that wraps up another episode from our Austin tour where we got to record live in person with some incredible guests more of which are coming soon. If you enjoyed this conversation, please, please, please head over to my Instagram right now at Samantha Daily. It'll take you just a few seconds and comment Angie under the trailer video for this episode to win a free box of Sol CBD goodies, sleepy gummies, out-of-office gummies, and their classic CBD gummies. The best-tasting CBD products in the world. I promise you, I've been using their products daily for years now, and it's helped me massively with stress and anxiety management. I've gotten my whole family onto Sol CBD products as well, so it's truly a brand that I love and use regularly. Angie's been generous enough to offer these epic free goodies along with free shipping directly to your door for our winners. So go leave a comment now to enter to win. As always, your engagement on the trailer videos on social media helps show our guests that the audience is loving their episode and it helps position us to be able to get other amazing guests on the show. So thank you guys for commenting and sharing.

It means the world.

And it is such a simple but powerful way to support the show. If you don't win the giveaway but you would still love to try out some Sol CBD products, we'll link their website for you guys down below in the show notes along with my affiliate code daily so you can save at checkout. All right, love you guys. Stay tuned. We'll see you next week.