Investing, Passive Income & Asking for a Pay Raise w/ Lindsey Nellessen

Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life.

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Let's go make shit happen. Welcome back to the podcast, guys. Today I have a special guest with us. Lindsay Nelson is here to share all of her insight around money and investing and securing your finances for the future. So I know this is an episode that you guys are absolutely going to love and eat up, because if you're here listening to this podcast, you are all about attracting the abundance, manifesting your ideal future, and part of that is money. So Lindsay is a money coach, and she helps 20-somethings grow their money through investing so that they don't have to worry if they'll be financially secure in the future. So I'm so excited to dive in and unpack all of this info about investing, where to invest, how to start, all the things that we're dying to know. Welcome to the show, Lindsay!

Thanks so much, Sam. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to share this because I feel like A lot of times when we manifest, it's not so much about just sitting back and like waiting for things to happen, right? You have to take the action too. And I hope that there is at least some people listening to this who are like, yes, this is exactly what I needed to hear today. This is what I've been trying to manifest.

Yeah, for sure. We are— we talk about that all the time on this podcast about the, the action that is incorporated and necessary and required inside of the law of attraction. So although we're, you know, working towards manifesting our goals and dream lifestyle lifestyles and financial freedom and all the things, action is a huge part of that. We actually have to do something, right? So I'm excited to dive into the action around investing because I know that it's a part of our relationship to money that can be really tricky, and especially for women, it can feel super foreign and just out of our wheelhouse and something that we're not taught in school and we don't know how to do it or where to start, so we avoid doing it. And we all probably know that that's the worst course of action, like to avoid investing and just be like, I don't know what to do, so I'm not going to do anything at all. Like, we're probably aware that that's the wrong approach, but because we feel like it's scary or foreign or we don't know how to do it correctly, we just don't take the risk and we don't jump in. So I'd love for you to, yeah, kind kind of touch on the risk factor of investing in general, just to begin, and like why, why it is so important to get started rather than sitting on the sidelines until you feel like you know enough, quote unquote enough, right, to, to start investing.

Yeah, exactly. And going back to what you just said too, like we as women a lot of times especially are afraid to invest, even though men don't learn this in school either. But I have so many things I could say on this, but I think part of it is the financial industry has a vested interest in keeping us ignorant when it comes to this kind of stuff so they can try to be our saviors or whatever and say, oh, manage your money, like, we'll make sure that there's no risk involved, blah blah blah, when really it's— I want to empower everybody listening, it's totally possible. So when it comes to risk, of investing, there's a couple different facets of that. So if you don't invest, it's also risky. So whatever you do with your money is risky. So have you heard of inflation happening a lot either around the world or especially in the US recently?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So inflation is basically just things getting more expensive over time. So the idea is your $500 today can't buy $500 worth of stuff in 3 years or whatever, especially even in a year right now because inflation is so high. So if you're not growing your money in some way, whether it's through investing in the stock market or real estate or whatever, you're losing money anyway. That's what got me started with investing because I was like, oh heck no, I worked so hard to save my money, no way. And so there are definitely really risky investments you can make, right? Especially those short-term things that people are often looking for. Like, oh, I think I can just pick this stock. I'll find the next Google or find the next Amazon or whatever, and I'll get in early, and then I'll sell it when it's really high. But that's flawed thinking because nobody can predict the future. And people who invest into the stock market itself instead of individual companies tend to do better over time. And women tend to do better over time because of this reason. They don't, like, think that they can beat the stock market. So there are ways to do this, and not everybody kind of knows about it, and we can dig into that more later. But that's the risk factor.

Yeah, no, I love that idea of like, well, it's a risk either way. Yeah, it's a risk whether you invest, and it's also a risk if you don't invest. Because I know you talk a lot about also like planning for retirement and how to prepare for that. And so I'd love for you to speak on what is the risk when it comes to retirement if you are not investing, let's say.

Yeah. So imagine you're at your job right now and tomorrow, God forbid, you get fired or you get laid off, right? How much would you freak out about where your money is going to come from? Probably a lot, right? So imagine intentionally quitting your job at a time where nobody would probably hire you back, especially because age discrimination, at least in the US, is rampant. As a former recruiter, I saw that a lot. So quitting your job or getting fired or whatever and not working for 20, 30 years, like where the heck is your money going to come from?

Sorry, what was retirement again? Essentially, yeah, that's what retirement is, is literally quitting your job and not working for the rest of your life.

Yeah, exactly. Which like sounds great, but it doesn't just happen magically. And so not a lot of people understand that retirement is not an age. It's not like when you turn 65, you can automatically retire. You actually need a certain amount of money to be able to retire. And in general, that's 25 times your annual income. So let's say you want to live on $60,000 a year, then you would need $1.5 million in order to retire, which I don't know about you, but I never had a job that paid more than like 60 grand. So I was like, how the heck am I ever supposed to save $1.5 million? Well, you don't have to. You can invest it and it'll just grow on its own. So that's why it's so important to start early and to actually start instead of waiting, because usually by the time people get serious about it, they have to work so much harder than if they would have started in their 20s or 30s.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And that's like, so when you think, when you, when you frame it that way around, if you want to live on a $60,000 a year salary, like you need to save $1.5 million. I imagine a lot of people just like kind of poop their pants a little bit of like, oh shit, you know, that moment of you had was like, well, how the fuck am I supposed to save $1.5 million? Like, what the heck? You know, on top of obviously wanting to enjoy your life in the present and not throw everything away just to like save or invest or, um, you know, and also have like an emergency fund. And most people nowadays have some sort of student loans or credit card debt and other things that they have to pay down or pay off. So undertaking that concept of, you know, $1.5 million, let's say, as an example, can be really terrifying or daunting, I guess I would say. So how do you— like, how do you advise your clients, or how do you help them become more acclimated to the idea of not only becoming a millionaire, but finding a realistic path to be able to create this sort of retirement plan. Okay.

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Yeah, so I have a 3-step process that I work with my clients through. The first step is to assess your situation. Everybody skips this step because it's the scariest part. They don't know how much they're spending. They don't know how much they make every month, especially if they have a variable income. And so without knowing that, you have no idea how much you're saving. You have no idea how much you would be able to invest if you even started. And so most people will dive into the second step of my process, which is prepare, and that's learning about everything, right? But that's where everybody gets stuck because it's so freaking hard. Like trying to research financial stuff online is— it can be done. That's how I learned. But it took me a pretty solid 4 or 5 years to feel like I really knew what I was talking about. And 4 to 5 years could cost you literally hundreds of thousands of dollars over your lifetime if you're investing money. And so with my clients, I make sure that they only learn what they need to know, like the easiest path to wealth that even people like Warren Buffett, who's like the greatest investor of all time, arguably, he recommends this process too. And then we get to the execute phase where you actually do the things that you learn. And most people don't even get here because they're so stuck in that prepare stage.

Yeah.

It's like analysis paralysis. You start looking for the information, you want to discover, okay, what is this investing stuff that everybody's talking about? What's the best course of action? What should I do? And there's so much information and so many different opinions and ideas and concepts and options that you're just like— and so many like weird names, you know, which I'm sure we'll get into some of them. You're just like, I don't even know what the fuck any of this is, you know. So then you get stuck there and you don't execute. And I love that you brought up the, the part about assessing your situation, because I talk about this a lot too. Like, you have to know what's going on with your money, and this was a huge part of like my journey as well. Of getting better at really understanding, like, what is in my account? What am I making each month? What am I spending each month? Like, really becoming more intimate with my money and knowing what's going on with it. You know, like, in college when I didn't have as much, uh, like, free-flowing income, I would, like, regularly just, like, not look at the not look at my bank account. Like, not just— I'll just be like, well, I hope there's stuff in there, you know. I think my parents transferred me some money like a while ago. Like, I'm sure there's enough to like buy this drink or whatever. Like, let's just swipe and hope, you know. And now I know so much better than that, and I know that that's like a real sort of like toxic money habit to be just super avoidant and unaware of what's really going on. So I love that you touched on that too, and I think that's a really easy first step— well, easy, maybe not so much— simple, direct first step for people to take is to like look at, okay, where are you at realistically? You know, if we were to ask everybody listening, how much money did you make last month to like within a range of $100? You know, there'd be a lot of people that they just, they don't know, especially if you said if you have a variable income. You know, if your paycheck is the exact same every single month, you probably know. And then it's like, well, how much did you spend last month? Which in a within about $100? God, I don't know, you know. So like learning to become more intimate with your money in that way and really understand where you're at, I think is super important, irregardless of investing or not, just in general in terms of your relationship with money. So I love that, that you touched on that, and I think that's so important. I have to work on this, like I said, actively myself as well, especially being a business owner now, you know, like the income is really highly variable and it comes from so many different places and different products and services that I offer. And so creating a system in which I can check— I actually sit down every Friday and I look at all of my, um, accounts and everywhere that money is incoming in the business, and I check and I take note and I track in a, in a spreadsheet, which is so against my natural nature. Like, spreadsheet is like Can't do it, don't want to do it, don't want to look at it. Um, but I think in terms of, yeah, our own relationship with money and becoming more intimate with it and growing our money and understanding our money more, sometimes we have to be open to these new systems and processes and, and ways of thinking and doing that allow us to expand and grow. And investing is one of those things, right? It's something that may feel really uncomfortable and scary to begin with, but once you start to kind of open that door, everything gets easier with practice, right? Like, it becomes more comfortable and easier the more that we do it. So yeah, like, what would, what would you say to someone who is sitting on the sidelines in a sense and not investing because maybe they are in that analysis paralysis or feeling overwhelmed? Like, What is your mindset tip or anything that you have to like help someone really take that leap?

Yeah, so the first step I would say is assess your mindset. I always have my clients do this first no matter where they feel like they're at. Because if you don't really think that you deserve money or you don't think that this is a possibility for you, and you talk about this a lot, like you're gonna self-sabotage. It's just not gonna be an ideal situation. So no matter how much you prepare, it's still not gonna work out. So assessing your mindset and working through your beliefs without judgment in mind, because so many families— and most people learn about money from their families primarily— they either don't talk about money or they only talk about it in ways where there's lack, there's not enough. And a lot of people have this limiting belief that that rich people are evil. And while that may be true, like some rich people just might truly exploit other people, it doesn't mean that if you become rich you're gonna be a bad person. And I find that is like the number one limiting belief with my clients. And if you think that being a millionaire is rich, then guess what? You have to become a millionaire to be financially secure. So You have to change some of those beliefs, right? So that's definitely the first step. And then the second step, I tell everyone, regardless of where you're at, even if you're following a budget right now, like, make sure that you're tracking your spending, make sure that you're tracking your income. Try to do that at least every other month, if not every single month, because the more data you have, the more intimately you'll understand your finances. And then you'll know, okay, I could afford to invest this much every month. Because when you invest, ideally, you don't see that money for another 10, 20, 30 years.

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good point. Totally. And the mindset piece, obviously we're all about that around here. That's what I work like mainly with my clients on, especially in my program, Cosmic Cash. We really dive deep into that portion of what's going on around money along with a lot of other themes. But one of the main themes that we cover in that program is like looking at, okay, what are these subconscious beliefs or program that we have around money and how may it be— how may it be holding us back. And, um, yeah, like the one that you touched on I think is really, really important because when we say it point blank like that, of like rich people are evil, most of us are going to be like, like objectively, consciously, we can be like, okay, well, like I can see how that's not always true. And, you know, we may think that's not a belief that I hold because I, I know some rich people and I know that they're not evil. So understanding also that that belief of rich people are evil 'Being rich is bad' is, is the very, very basic boiled-down version of a lot of other more fluffy, more acceptable beliefs that we hold, right, in the way that we view people that have a lot of money. And, and one that I like to, that I like to use because I think it allows people to sort of see how that may be a belief for them a little bit more is like you know, the idea that rich people are detached from reality in some sense, or they're, they're ungrounded, or they're just, they're not connected with like real world problems, you know, like they just, they don't get it, right? It's like they've lost their, their sense of what really matters in the world. Yeah. Or a lot of times people witness really wealthy people, um, just kind of like skirting the law in a sense of like they're allowed to get away with a lot of things because of money, right? They, they don't go to prison even though they may deserve to because of money, or they don't have to pay all of their taxes because they are so wealthy and they have power and they have lots of lawyers who know all the loopholes, who can do all the things, right? We see these things, we witness these things, and they create inferences in our mind, especially as, you know, we're growing up, when we're younger, about what it means to have a lot of money. Maybe you had friends that had a lot of money, but their parents were unhappy or unfaithful, or, you know, like all of these sort of stories and things that we witness even in like movies and films and TV. What is the messaging around wealthy people and how they treat others? Are they arrogant? Are they stuck up? Do they talk down to people? Are they non-appreciative? Are they ungrateful? Right? There's so many other things that feed into that belief that you mentioned of rich people are evil, right? So just to like unpack that a little further, what that might look for someone— look like for someone on like, you know, like sort of like a more conscious level on an everyday basis. And of course, all those beliefs boil down to being rich equals being bad. And if we believe on any level that being rich means we are a bad person to some extent, and we don't identify already as a bad person, then we will have energetic resistance to becoming wealthy, to becoming rich, because our subconscious mind has this deep primal need, as you know, to perform in a way and to speak, act, behave in a way that is in alignment with who we believe ourselves to be. So if you believe yourself to be a good person, a grounded person, a grateful person, a sensible person, right, all those things, and you also on some level subconsciously believe that lots of money equals being a bad person, then you're not going to find yourself with lots of money. That's just like the, the basics, right, of what you were kind of talking about. So I love that you, that you touched on that and that you work with your clients on that as well, because I know that that's such an important part of the process. And I think, you know, you being someone who is really in the financial space, you can probably see that it may be part of the process that is often overlooked. I don't know, would you, would you agree with that?

Oh, 100%. And I also love how you unpack that because those are all exact beliefs that I hear from my clients and that they really have to work through once they hear it reflected back to them in those ways. I will say once I started developing my program, I hadn't really looked at anybody else that deeply yet. And I, and I was developing my program and I was like, okay, what do I want to teach people? And then I realized, oh my gosh, like, I need to teach psychology and mindset and habits first before anything else. And then I started realizing, once I started talking to a lot of people in the space— the personal finance space is super amazing, by the way, for anybody who's listening. Like, if you follow these people, they are some of the nicest people ever, and like low-key rich people that are just really nice. Anyway, and so I started noticing that a lot of them do include this kind of stuff in their programs and their processes. But I think that that's— it's something that people, when they're trying to do the research on their own, that's what they miss. And that's why hiring a coach in this space, if this is something that you're really serious about, is so helpful because they can help you work through all the steps that you need to get, not just, again, the prepare stage.

Yeah, I think like, well, I mean, I think personal finance like definitely falls under the category of personal development, you know, there's a lot of really great books about money and investing and becoming wealthy and all these things. And I think in that sector of personal finance, um, where the mindset is really integrated— because I've read a lot of really great books about money that totally do touch on all this stuff like you're mentioning, um— I think that's like really, really powerful. So like you said, if you're going to look it up on the internet and just try to figure out how to invest on your own, you might not come across like, hey, you should check your subconscious programming. You'll probably come across like stock market stuff, Roth IRAs, all that kind of junk, but you won't— you'll miss that big piece of the puzzle. So if you're, if you're, if you're working with someone who's really well-versed and they're in the personal development, personal finance space, I'm sure that they'll be able to, to help you through that extra piece of the puzzle like you do with your clients, you know, because I think it is such an important part of, of the process. Like you said, you can do the things and take the action, but if you have the subconscious resistance, it's not really going to work to the extent that it could if you were to adjust those and get your mindset and your beliefs on board with the actions that you're doing. That's like the, the magic formula, right, is to have both of those pieces. So I love that. Um, okay, so yeah, let's kind of talk about like what it takes to retire and invest money or save money in a sense for retirement, I guess, and some of the options. So I know in the US the most popular is like the 401 and the Roth IRA. So yeah, give us a little bit of insight into how you feel about investing in those types of accounts, what the benefits are. Maybe like for someone who's like, you know, retirement investing for dummies, like tell us where to start.

Yeah, I totally get that. I actually started investing because I read like 20 pages of the book Investing for Dummies, and I was just like, I need to start now. So there's no shame in feeling like you don't know anything about it, because like, how are we supposed to learn, right? So a 401 and a Roth IRA, which are two types of accounts that you mentioned, these are types of retirement accounts. They are account— basically special bank accounts that the US government allows you to pay either less in taxes or pay your taxes later so that more money can grow earlier. And they allow you to, yeah, just pay less in taxes in general. So if you've ever heard, I think there was a news story recently that was really big in the personal finance space that some billionaire bought a share of some very small company before it went big inside of a Roth IRA. And so inside of a Roth IRA, you don't have— you, you pay taxes on the money and then you put the money in, and then the money just grows tax-free. So whereas like regular money in just a regular stock account, it's called a brokerage account, that's always taxed every year or when you pull the money out, depending on what kind of money you're getting. In a Roth IRA, you don't have to pay money at all in taxes unless you like break the rules or something and withdraw the money before you're 59 and a half. But it's a way for you as a regular person to take advantage of the tax advantages that are often associated with rich people. And then a 401k is essentially the opposite. So you get the money from your paycheck without paying any taxes on it, and then You just— the money grows and grows and grows. And then as you take the money out at retirement age, then you pay taxes on it at that point. So it gives you ways to either grow more money or grow money without paying taxes on it, if that makes sense.

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Yeah. So just to clarify, you never have to pay taxes on the money in the Roth IRA, even at the point of retirement when you take it out, or you do.

So you pay taxes for a Roth IRA before you put the money in. So if they call it post-tax money, so that's when you pay taxes. And then you're right, when you pull out the money at age 59 and a half or later as of 2021, then you don't have to pay any taxes on it. It's amazing. The thing with a Roth IRA is that there's an income limit. So if you make more than, I think this year it's like $140,000 or something, you can't contribute to them. But then there's this thing called a Roth 401k, which doesn't have an income limit., and that has the same tax rules, but it's something that you can only get through an employer, or if you're self-employed, you can do one for yourself. So there's a lot of little intricacies there, but when I explain this to my 10-year-old cousin, I just told her it's a special bank account that you don't have to pay as much in taxes.

Yeah, exactly. That's what we need. We need the 10-year-old style explanations over here. Yeah, just be like, okay, I get it, you know?

Yeah, exactly.

Yes. Okay, perfect. So would you recommend that everybody is— I mean, most employers have like 401 plans for their employees where like a, a piece of your paycheck or your monthly income or whatever goes just directly, direct deposit into the 401 so that you're saving for retirement. So would you recommend that everybody is doing this in some way, shape, or form, whether it's Roth IRA or 401, like, is this something that you would say is really, really important to be doing?

I would say it's important to be doing, but I would never recommend something for everyone, right? It really depends on your situation. So for example, for somebody who's really low income and they don't even make enough money to like feed their kids, like, no, I absolutely would not recommend contributing to a 401 because chances are you would go into credit card debt, which is more expensive than the money that you could make in a 401. So I wouldn't recommend it to people like that. But for the average person, it's probably a good idea to start investing at some point. The only thing I would say, mathematically speaking, and this again comes in that assess stage, is if you have credit card debt or other really high-interest debt, high interest being over 10% interest, it's going to be more mathematically advantageous for you on average to pay off that debt before you start investing.

Hmm. Okay. So this might apply to people that have credit card debt that's high interest, or if you have high interest student loans or things, it may be more beneficial for you to pay that down because that's growing in interest as well, right? That's compounding, but not in your favor.

Exactly. Yeah. So if you think about it, it's like, If you have that really high-interest debt and you're trying to invest, it's kind of like walking up the down escalator.

Yes. Yes. That's a great analogy for it.

Okay.

Totally. Um, okay. So how do we know, like, I want to talk about high-yield savings accounts for a second because this is something that's like new on my radar that I'm personally trying to like understand more about. So I'd love to, to pick your brain about that for a second and how to know Like, what is a good one? What's a good percentage? Like, what should we be looking for? Like, where do you find these things? How much should we put into it? Like, give me the lowdown.

I'm so excited to answer this question, Sam, because people way overthink high-yield savings accounts. Even my husband put off getting one for 2 years, which is literally hundreds of dollars, because he thought there was some sort of catch, like it was too good to be true. He has one now, thank God. But he's probably listening to me right now say this, but I told it to him to his face. So a high-yield savings account is— it's just a savings account. It has all the same rules as a savings account. And this is specifically for the US. I don't know about other countries. So for US listeners, then this is gonna apply most to you. In terms of interest rates, it really varies what a quote-unquote good interest rate is. At the time that we're recording this, a good interest rate is anything over half a percent, which isn't very high, but it's better than nothing like I was getting at my first ever savings account. But when I first opened my high-yield savings account, it was at like 2%, 2.5%, which was like 4 or 5 times more than it is now. So it really depends on what the Federal Reserve sets the interest rates at. And right now, because of economic pressures, it's like taking them down to stimulate the economy. So that's why the rates are so low right now. But to open one, I really wouldn't overthink it, as long as it's FDIC insured if you live in the US, which means that like the money— even if the bank goes down, your money is safe. Make sure it has that. And then the other thing you need to make sure is that its interest rate is over 0.5%. And my favorite high-yield savings account places, although there really isn't a wrong answer as long as it meets those two criteria, is Marcus by Goldman Sachs. That's what I use. And then I also really like Ally. It has a really cute interface. It helps you create these little cute buckets for savings goals. So like if you want a new car, You can have a savings account specifically for that or your wedding or whatever. It's really cool. Um, there's— they don't have a referral program, so that's the only reason I'm not using them. But those are two really solid high-yield savings accounts that you can use.

Cool. Amazing. Okay. And I'm sure like for listeners who are not in the US, there's some version of like high-yield savings accounts definitely in your country. Just, you'll just have to like Google and look at, you know, where you can get those. It may not be Goldman Sachs or whatever, um, or Ally or, or those things. I feel like I've heard of one, like, do you know what Acorn is? What is Acorn?

So Acorns is a micro investing platform that's like an app on your phone. I don't know if they do high yield savings accounts, but honestly, I'm not a huge fan of Acorns. I was interested in investing like my first year out of college and I opened an Acorns account and I did that. Have you heard of that roundup feature they have where it's like they take your change and then they invest it for you? I was like, this is like nothing. Like I think I got $50 in there and it never grew, but I, it just didn't grow because I didn't wait long enough. But new investors don't know this. And, um, but they were taking a dollar from me every month as like an account management fee, which is like 2%. So that's really expensive. And I was like, it doesn't make sense that I'm making less than a dollar a month and—

and you're charging me a dollar—

and you're charging me a dollar a month. And I think it's more now. I want to say somebody told me that it was $2 a month recently. Now, I also didn't know what I was investing in. If you want to go for something that's a little bit more like— it's still managed for you and it's automatic. If you have access to an employer 401k, that's probably a better bet for you than Acorns.

Yeah, because it's just totally out of your hands. It's like automated, it just goes directly in there.

Okay.

Yeah, I just wanted to ask you what Acorns was because I've heard people talk about it and I've tried to look it up, but because I'm not right now located in the US and it's only available in the US, I couldn't actually like download the app or look further into it. So interesting. Yeah, I guess you have to be careful with those things too, of like, how much am I making versus how much is it costing me to like have this service? Totally. Okay, cool. So everybody, high-yield savings accounts, we love them. They're just savings accounts, but they help grow your money for you. Some sort of retirement plan or account in terms of a Roth IRA or 401. And then Let's talk about passive income because I've seen you post about this. I know you're like, she's rubbing her hands together like, okay, yes, I can't wait to dive into this. So passive income, this is like everybody and their mother nowadays, especially in the personal development space, is talking about like passive income, passive income, passive income. And I've seen you do a post about this before about you know, like passive income, a lot of things that people say are passive aren't actually truly passive. And I've had the same experience in the coaching industry. And I think a lot of people listening to this are either, you know, business owners or they're coaches or they're aspiring coaches. And so it's important to understand how passive is the passive income that you are trying to create, right? Like, we're sold the story about selling ebooks and, you know, evergreen courses that just sell themselves. And, you know, I've tried— I've— and I think you have as well. Like, I've tried my hand at a lot of those things, and what you really come away with is this understanding of even things that are quote unquote passive are not truly passive because they still require work. It still requires, you know, the product itself of maybe passive, let's say the ebook or the course that is, is not live anymore and it's just something that you can sell. It's like, yes, okay, great, that is, I guess, sort of passive. But how, how much of that are you actually selling with no effort? You know, unless you have a really, really successful funnel set up that automates and directs people towards the sale, and people are actually every single month signing up and buying it, and then it's truly passive for you. But But for a lot of people, especially for people starting out in this pursuit of passive income, what you think is going to be passive is actually still going to require quite a bit of work in order for you to push it, for you to announce it, for you to present it, market it, show it, remind people, hey, here's this thing that I have, it's available, this is where you find it, here's how much it costs. Like, you kind of got to be on it if you really want it to be generating income every month. And so then it presents this this problem of like, is your pursuit of passive income actually even going to be truly passive? So I'd love for you to dive into this with me and talk about your experience of this and what you feel is like the best option for truly passive income.

Sam, I love that you're talking about this because something that really bugs me about, and this is like a new thing that I realized bugged me. Because I was always searching for passive income. But something that really bugs me about like the online coaching industry, and to be honest, a lot of people that are into like that manifestation stuff, which I totally am, but a lot of mindset manifestation coaches make it seem like passive income is the thing. Like you don't actually have to do the work, you just have to like manifest it and wait for it to come, which we both know is only part of the equation, right? Like part of that is true, but you really do have to work work for a lot of these things. And marketing is constant. Like, even if you have that passive course, like, you still have to manage the Facebook ads or whatever, manage the person managing the Facebook ads. And I, I have a TikTok on this that went super viral because I think this is something that really resonates with people. I first heard about online business and passive income in 2014. I, or maybe 2015, I was in college and I started listening to— I don't know if you've heard of Pat Flynn with the Smart Passive Income podcast. Oh my gosh, I, I love him. And he has built up this empire of passive income and stuff, but he's very involved in it. But I always thought like, oh yeah, if I can just create a website, get traffic to it, then I can sell ads and I can sell ebooks and it'll be passive. But like, and so I spent so long trying to do those things and it never worked out for me. And so then I started looking into investing in the stock market, and now I have this business and I have an ebook and I have a course and I have coaching and all these things. To be totally honest with you, I have made almost as much from investing in the stock market as I have in my business that I've been full-time in for a year, and I didn't have to do any I didn't do anything except invest that money into the stock market. It's just made money on itself automatically, truly passively, whereas my business takes so much work. I love it, but I'm never about to say I make passive income from my business.

So true. Oh my gosh. That is crazy that you've made nearly the same amount from your investments in the stock market as in your full-time. Business. Like, I think if people really knew that that was possible, it would change the way that they view investing in the stock market in general, or it would at least encourage them to be like, okay, I need to like get into it or think more seriously about it or consider it. I know like for me personally, my boyfriend invests in the stock market quite a bit, and that's like the one place where I haven't yet been able to like throw my money towards? Because like a lot of women and probably a lot of people listening to this, I'm just like, I don't know anything about it. Like, I feel like I would be so foolish to just be like, okay, let me put this money towards Apple because I think Apple is a good company and I have Apple products. Like, I'm like, no, that's probably not how it works. And I don't know how it works and I don't have time. You know, this is probably what a lot of your clients come to you for is like, saving the time and the energy to try and figure out what the frick to do and just like speed up that process so that they can actually just start doing it already. Because I think that's probably what holds a lot of people back is that research phase of, okay, well, I have to understand it and I have to figure it out and I have to know, you know, the ins and outs of what are good stocks to invest in and when do I buy, when do I sell. And, you know, there's so many intricacies there. And also I think you'll hear other people talking about their stock stock market investments in a way that makes you feel like it's way more complicated than it probably needs to be for the average person. So for someone like me, like, what is your advice around getting over that hump of, ooh, I'm not investing in the stock market because I don't know enough about it?

So all of those things you just said, Sam, those are lies told to you by the financial industry. The way this method of investing that I teach, which is just like investing in index funds and ETFs, it's— you don't have to pick stocks. You don't need to spend a lot of time researching. It's just a little bit of upfront work, like learning about your options. You don't have to actually know if a company is gonna do well or not. Like, it sounds too good to be true because I, I don't know about you, but I always thought that I had to do all that stuff in order to be a good investor. Like, I remember my parents telling me about my grandpa who would get up at like 6 AM every morning and read the Wall Street Journal to like learn about his stocks. And he was a very successful investor, um, but he— and the reason that this is so perpetuated in our society still is because this method of investing in the stock market itself instead of individual companies through things like index funds and ETFs, which are just ways to invest in the whole stock market. They didn't come around until the '90s. They didn't really become popular until the 2000s, and they didn't become like really entrenched in society, at least the personal finance space, until probably the 2010s. And so for people like your boyfriend, he might be really into picking stocks and stuff. Okay, but don't tell him I said this. I mean, you can. But people who trade stocks like, oh, I have to time the market, I have to choose a company, I have to do all this research, they underperform this easy method of just investing in the stock market itself 90% of the time in the long run. And this is— this statistic is for those Wall Street guys who have advanced degrees and they are Excel junkies and they spend 16 hours a day and probably a little bit of cocaine like like researching this all the time. And just the regular people, it's like being in a casino, right? Picking an individual stock is like going up to a machine and trying your luck there. And like, you're probably gonna fail at most of the machines, right? You might make like a couple cents at one of them, but then you see the guy across the room that just made $100,000 in 5 minutes, right? Investing in the stock market itself is like playing as the house. Yeah, you might not make $100,000 in 5 minutes or whatever,, but you know the house is always going to win because that's how the system is set up.

Yeah, so good. Okay, so let's— that was another question I want to talk about these because I know this is something that you, that you teach a lot about is these index funds and, um, ETFs, are they called?

Yeah.

Okay, so yeah, let's unpack that. Like, tell us more about what they are. It's a way to invest in the stock market in general. So are these like, are these like agencies of some sort that kind of like know where to put your money in the stock market and it's sort of like automated for you? Like, what's actually going on?

That's a great question. So what you just described is more like a mutual fund. Are you familiar with Pokémon? Like, just the basic idea of what it is? Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. So I'm gonna use a Pokémon analogy because I don't know, I feel like this just makes sense in my brain and I like Pokémon. So pretend that You have these people who like know a lot about Pokémon cards. They're like expert Pokémon traders. They like know everything about all the Pokémon and like what battles are coming up, right? And so they're constantly like trading the Pokémon cards and just like doing all this, right? But in real life, like the Pokémon cards are stocks and they're trading. And so every time they trade, they're taxed or things like that. And so this is a really active form of managing stocks. And people think that these kind of people get better results They don't. Usually they charge you high fees and they get worse results than what I'm about to describe, which is investing in the stock market itself. They— these people are trying to pick the companies that they think will win and grow over time, or whatever the goal of that particular fund is, right? So that's basically what you just described is a mutual fund. Now an index fund is basically just like buying all the Pokémon cards and just knowing like, okay, yeah, a couple of these are gonna do well, some of them might tank, but then we'll just move those out. So an index fund is in— is essentially buying either the top 500 companies, if you buy an S&P 500 index fund, like buying the top 500 companies in the US. That's gonna be companies like Microsoft and Google and Apple, and like all the other successful companies in the United States will be in this index, and you just get to own like a piece of all of them. It's like going to a brewery and ordering all the beers and getting a flight instead of just picking one and hoping that that beer is good. Does that make sense?

Yeah, totally. Okay. I love that. And so where, like, is there anything that we need to know about index funds that will allow us to understand whether it's, you know, like a good investment, a smart investment? Is there any like requirements or things that you recommend checking or looking at before you're just like, oh, this is an index fund, I'll throw some money in there.

The thing I will say is starting is better than not starting. Like, I definitely chose the wrong type of funds when I started investing, and I still have done really well. So getting started is more important than getting stuck in like trying to figure out which is the best one, because realistically a lot of them are just about exactly the same. So the one that I often talk about is an S&P 500 index fund. You can buy those at places like Vanguard. If you just Google S&P 500 index funds and you'll find, you'll find them. And you can just go to that quote-unquote brokerage, which is where you can buy these funds from, and you can open an account and you can buy them. There's also these things called total market index funds, which I tend to go towards because they give you a little bit more exposure and they tend to perform better, at least over the the past 40 years or so. So you can just Google total market index funds and you'll find some things, and then you can go open an account and buy them. The other thing— there's a couple more things that you should look at when you're thinking about buying these funds, because some will be labeled an index fund but they'll actually be like not— they'll be like a very small subset of the companies in the US. Like it might only be tech, or it might only be healthcare, might only— there's like a weed ETF too. And these are all like US ones. I'm— you can buy like world index funds as well, but I tend to focus on the US because it has connections to the entire world too. Like Apple has factories and, you know, God knows where else. Anyway, and the other thing that's really important to look at is something called an expense ratio. That essentially tells you how how much money of your own money is going to the company instead of actually in the investment. So for example, a 1% expense ratio, it doesn't sound like a lot, right? But 1% can be tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars over the lifetime of your investments. So if the expense ratio is under 0.5%, that's generally like a good sign, but always the lower the the better.

Yeah, okay, good. Amazing tips. I'm loving this. I'm like taking notes for myself. Um, okay, so I want to ask you, I know it's probably so individual and unique to each person based on, you know, where they are in life, what their financial goals are, what their income is like, but is there any sort of general rule of thumb that you like to use or share with your clients about, um, like where to put different percentages of their income in terms of how much should I be saving versus investing versus spending. You know, obviously it's going to change a lot person to person with the resources that you have and the goals that you have, but just in general, how do you view that? What's your take on that?

It's funny because I have gotten this question a couple times, and like you said, there really is no one cookie-cutter answer. General investing knowledge is like if you contribute, if you invest 15% of your income, like you should be pretty good for retirement. But again, that depends on your age. I focus on people in their 20s and 30s, so that's usually okay advice for them. But some people, for example, have different goals. They might want to retire early, for example. So if you invest 50% of your income and you live on the other 50%, you can retire in 15 years or less. So it really, yeah, it depends on your situation. Yeah, right? Isn't that crazy?

Yeah, that is crazy to think about. So if you, I mean, like, obviously not everybody's gonna have the ability to take 50% of their income and invest it, but some people would. So that's like a totally different plan or route for someone that that might fit for. So interesting. And then in terms of like the the rest of managing your personal finances when it comes to spending and saving? How do you view that, whether it's for your clients or even just for yourself? What is your general process?

So in terms of the percentages, I think I forgot to answer that question of yours earlier. You should have— I wouldn't say there's a certain percentage you should be saving, but you should have at least a 3 to 6 month emergency fund saved up. That's money that you can use for things like, like last year I was going through a green light and I hit a dog at 40 miles an hour. And yeah, it was so terrible. It was like off the leash. The owner was right there and I was like, dude, like, leash your freaking dog. But the dog made it, thank God, because I was like really traumatized because I love dogs. But the dog, like, it made a huge indent into my car, and so my front bumper was like, it needed to be replaced. And so, and this guy, like, you know, he did— he wasn't driving a car, so there's no way I can like get his information, like go after his insurance. So I had to pay like the $200 deductible or whatever. That's the kind of thing you need an emergency fund for. Because you never know, or God forbid you lose your job. That also happened to me last year. So having that 3 to 6 month emergency fund is going to be your ticket out of debt. So that's number one to have even before paying off debt too. Like, please have an emergency fund. Another thing that you should do is again pay off your debt, especially that high-interest debt that needs to come like second. And then the third thing I would say is, or also actually probably at the same time as paying off that high-interest debt, is if your employer offers a 401 match, which is essentially matching like 50 to 100% or whatever of like the money that you put into your investments. So you'd essentially get a bunch of free money with a really high like return on investment. That's a really good place to start. And I'm kind of going up. I have this thing I call the priority pyramid where I work with my clients to help them like understand where their priorities lie and in what order they should do things. So I'm going up from the bottom of my personal one. So yeah, on the bottom, emergency fund, then 401 match and paying off high-interest debt. Then from there, it can get like really whatever you want. If you feel better about investing, you can invest in this point at a Roth IRA or put more into your 401, whichever one seems like a better option for you. And you— or you could pay off the rest of your debt if you're like, I just really hate having this debt. Like let's pay it off. And then from there it kind of goes up into different kinds of investments, but those are the foundation of it.

I love that, the priorities pyramid. That's super helpful, I think, for people to start to like, yeah, prioritize essentially what should I do first, because there's, there's all of these things, right? And that can get overwhelming of like, oh, I'm supposed to have an emergency fund, so I have to save for that, and I'm supposed to, you know, do the things in the stock market and save money also and do the Roth IRA. And they're like, what do I do first? You know, maybe I can't do all of this at once because I don't think anybody really should go and try to like do all of these in one big bulk action step of like, okay, tomorrow I'm just gonna, you know, separate all of my income and put in all these new places and just hope that it works out. Like being able to see that, that sort of like pyramid or ladder of like, where should I start? What's the priority for me? Is really, really helpful because like you said, any step is better than no step, which is what most of us are probably doing right now is sitting in the analysis paralysis of doing nothing. So anything that we can do, even if it's just taking one of these things that we've talked about today and pursuing it and taking action towards it, is better than continuing to sit in the current situation that we're in, which is inaction, essentially not really doing anything, or being fearful of doing the wrong thing, so we do nothing at all. So I love that, that's really helpful. The last thing that I want to touch on with you is is, you know, not so much about investing but about other ways of increasing income, especially in terms of people who have maybe traditional jobs and asking for raises. Because this is something that I work on a lot with my clients, who— my, my private clients that I work with, um, and how to go about that, really getting what they want out of their careers, getting jobs that feel aligned for them, getting compensation that feels fair and adequate and appropriate for their experience and their— what they bring to the table, essentially. And I think this is an important conversation, especially for women, because a lot of women lose out in the workforce on making more simply because they don't ask. They don't inquire about making more. And I think there's this assumption that if you just work hard you'll get noticed. If you just do everything for everybody and you show up early or you leave late, or you're always on time with your projects, or you have a good attitude, or you're a team player, or you really participate and show your worth, that someone along the line will say, oh, you know what, Lindsay, you really deserve a raise. Let's give you 10% more. And unfortunately, that's just not really how it works.. And so men end up really out-earning women in a lot of cases simply because they know that they have to walk into the office and say, hey, look, this is my performance for the year. This is what I've done. These are the deliverables that I've hit. You know, this is what I feel that I deserve. Can we talk about increasing my compensation or, you know, a raise of some sort? So yeah, like I, I always say, you know, you're only going to get get the things in life in general that you have the courage to ask for. We have to be willing to share our truth and ask for what we want because no one is going to be as invested in our lives as us in order to be reading our minds or watching our every move and figuring out what it is that we need and what we want and we desire. You know, so, and I think you've talked about this before, so what is your perspective on this. Maybe you work with clients on this as well, but this other piece of how can I, you know, amplify my income or increase my financial situation? What's your take on asking for raises and how that shows up in the workforce? And maybe, you know, some stuff about this as well, even just from like, you know, your history as a recruiter and things like that.

So I— this isn't necessarily something that I teach my clients, but when they ask, I have so much to say on it because I was a recruiter. And at one point I did negotiate. It was like a 10% increase in my salary or maybe 15. It was a lot. So the first point I want to say about that is that inflation in the United States right now is 5.9%, which means— so we'll just say 6%. That means that your burger that you get when you go out with your girlfriends or your margarita or whatever is gonna cost 6% more, like, at the end of the year, basically. So if you're getting a raise any less than 6% this year, you are actually taking a pay cut because your money is becoming less valuable. So think about it like that. The other thing I want you to think about, and these are just mindset checks for you, is how much are you willing to pay to avoid an uncomfortable conversation? And this is what I tell people, not only when they negotiate.

Yes. Oh my God, that's fire. Repeat that again.

How much are you willing to pay to avoid an uncomfortable conversation? And I tell people this when they talk about negotiating their salary, because I know from experience it's terrifying and I hate confrontation. And the other thing is when you're negotiating like your phone bill and stuff to save more money. I once had a dude that I worked with who saved literally over $1,200 a year just by asking his cell phone company to reduce his prices. Isn't that wild?

Yeah, and no, I like— I've heard of this so much with like even credit card companies. Like they'll have— you'll be like paying for things that you don't need to pay for without even knowing. And if you just call and say, hey, can you 'Can you remove this charge?' Sometimes they do. It's absolutely nuts. There's so much in our day-to-day lives that can be negotiated that we just don't even think about negotiating. It's crazy.

Yeah. And that's why, again, assessing your situation is so important because you might not even know that you have these little leaks in your financial system and you could use that money for things you actually want to use it for. Fuck bank fees. No, I want to pay for a vacation. Or like a cocktail or whatever. So when it comes to negotiations, those are the mindset checks I would say. But in terms of actually action steps that you can take. So I'll just tell you the story of what I did when I negotiated my raise. And I will say like I had a really good relationship with my boss. I had like a really great company. Like he was also very like women empowerment. So that really helped me like feel a little bit better with the situation. The first thing I did was I told a friend, a trusted friend, that I was gonna do this, and I was like, do not let me chicken out, girl. So that was the first step, and because I know I would have chickened out otherwise. Yeah, yeah. The second thing I did was I compiled all of this stuff that all of my increased responsibilities over the past it was a couple years at this time. And then I also said like some results that I got for the company. Like, because here's the thing, the company does not care. They, no matter how cool your boss is, they do not give a shit about your expenses. So many people will go into raise conversations and be like, oh well, my expenses have increased, like I moved and like I had a kid and so that's why I need a raise. No, no, no, please do not say that. That. Not to like shame you or anything, because most people don't know this, but like what the company cares about is the value that you bring to the organization. So tell them how you're making them money and how much more you're making them than they're paying you. And that is very quantifiable. It's especially if your boss is a man. Men like numbers. And so if you can put them into numbers and not just like, oh well, like I contribute to the culture because like I planned the potluck. Like, maybe you can put that on your list, but like, it's probably— it's not like a money, you know, thing. So the more that you can put money that you made the company, money that you saved the company, or achievements, like maybe certain projects that you worked on. So for example, if you're a developer, like, yeah, you probably didn't make the company any money directly, but you worked on their product which they sell. So those are the 3 things that you should focus on, and then, you know, ask your boss for a conversation. And also know that your boss may not have the power to give you that raise right away. A lot of times companies plan out their fiscal year or their quarters like 3 months to a year ahead of time. And so you can at least start the conversation and let them know, hey, I want to be able to get to this number. Have a range in mind, by the way. Do not go in just asking for a raise. Know how much you want. And say, how can, how can we bridge this gap and make it collaborative instead of adversarial? That will, at least for me, that felt a lot better to me because I'm again non-confrontational. And B, it helps them feel like they're not being defensive. It helps them, you know, work with you instead of against you.

Yeah, I love those tips. And, and what you said too about noting your increases in responsibility in the company, because I think as as you, as you move through your time with an organization, you naturally get handed more things. You get more projects, you get put on more teams, or, you know, you're overseeing more things. And if your salary has stayed the same, well, that's no longer like an accurate reflection then of what you're actually doing, right? Because they paid you this amount to do X, Y, and Z, and now you do X, Y, and Z plus A, B, and C. So that's another good thing to add in there as well, on top of, you know, the money that you either made or save the company, or how you contribute to the company in, in, in some way, shape, or form. So I love that, that, um, that tip that you gave there. Um, there was something else I was going to say about, about what you mentioned that I thought was so important. Let me see if I can pull it from the back of my brain. Um, well, I think this idea of, yeah, providing quantifiable proof or evidence is really important because, like you said, a lot of people may go into the conversation with, uh, things that aren't necessarily proof of value provided to the company, right? As much as we would like to believe that, you know, everybody is human and they can see our humanness and our, oh, I just had a baby, or so I, you know, this is what I need now, right? We, we want to look at this this part of business as part of like the business machine, right? And as you said, it's not necessarily your boss who's going to be the one to be able to say, oh, you know, Lindsay, like, I love you, I know you, I want to support you, you do great stuff for us, so of course I'm going to give you this. Unfortunately, it's likely out of the hands of that individual. That has to be passed up in the chain to other people, and they're going to be looking at it from this like machinery perspective. Of like, you know, what's happening in the company, what can we afford, what's— where's the best place to put our money or not put our money. And so that's a really important insight that you gave as well in terms of, yeah, like, how do we actually get them to see the, the value that we provide and want to match that with compensation or with money. And what I was going to say before, which just came through for me, because yeah, they may not say no, or they may not say yes right away, or they may say no, right? But I think it's important to look at you showing up to the conversation as the win itself, regardless of whether they say yes or no. The thing that has happened is that you've already stepped forward and raised your hand and taken the initiative to say, 'Look, I'm thinking about my future role in the company. This is where I want to get. I want to go upwards. I want more responsibility. I want more— I want a higher level of income. I want a higher role here. You know, this is— I'm, I'm taking the initiative to really show what I'm desiring and what I'm trying to create out of this career.' And so now you're top of mind when it does come time where they are able to provide raises or bonuses, those types of things, and they're planning out the fiscal year, right? Whereas other people who are just sitting silent with their head down at their desk, they're not going to be top of mind. You are, because you took the effort to like plan that meeting with your boss, to organize your points that you wanted to present, and to put yourself out there. And that means a lot. Even if the answer is no the first time, trust in knowing that that's getting you the raise faster than not having the conversation all.

Absolutely. And I think another point is, whenever I think about doing something scary, I think about worst-case scenario. Like, what's the absolute worst that can happen? So let's imagine you're going up to your boss and you ask for a raise. Like, I guess the worst that could happen is like you get fired. But do you die? No, you can probably get another job, and that other job will probably be better than the one you have now. But most likely worst case scenario.

And the likelihood of getting fired for asking for a raise is quite low.

Yeah, yeah. Most worst case scenario is like they say no, right? And that's already where you're at now. So you're already living the most likely worst case scenario.

Yes. Oh my gosh. I just talked about that today with my clients of— and this is applicable to so many other areas of life when we're fearful of something. We fail to recognize that we're probably already in the worst case scenario. So if the worst case scenario were to come to fruition, which is possible but unlikely, we would just end up exactly where we are now. So you don't really lose anything by trying or by taking the leap or having the conversation. So I think that's important to remember as well. Oh my gosh, so, so, so much good stuff in this conversation, Lindsay. Thank you so much for your insight and sharing your knowledge with us. And I know that this is literally just like scratching the surface of the basics. So if you guys listening are like, oh my gosh, I need to get my finance shit in order, help me Lindsay, um, let everybody know like where they can find you and how they can work with you. Um, and yeah, like what programs might be on the table for them or a good fit for someone that wants to really get their personal finances in order.

Yes, thank you so much, Sam. This was so much fun. You're like inspiring me to start a podcast because I just get to talk to cool people like you. So where you can find me, I'm very active on Instagram. My handle is @your_money_bff. I can send that to you, Sam.

Yeah, I'll even though you already have me.

Everybody. Yeah, and then there's a couple ways that you could work with me. Obviously all of my content on Instagram is free, so you can check out my content there. And then I have a— my group signature coaching program/course is called Stressed to Invested. That's where I really go through step by step how you can achieve all your money goals, starting with that assess stage, going into the prepare stage but not getting stuck in it, and then executing on everything so that you actually get something out of the program instead of just some like cute journal prompts or something. So that's the most common way to work with me. The other way to work with me is if you really want that one-on-one experience where we really dig into your situation. I do that as well, but just DM me on Instagram about either of those options and I can help you figure out which one's the best for you.

Yay, amazing. Okay, I will link all of that in the show notes so you guys can contact Lindsay, find her, follow her. Victoria Ward, she provides so much value on her Instagram. Like, a lot of the things that we talked about today were just things that I've learned from her or absorbed from her through her Instagram page. So go definitely give her a follow. And if you guys are looking to get yourself in tip-top shape with personal finances, jump into her program or reach out and work with her. I think it's such an amazing— this is what coaches do in, in all areas, but especially in personal finance, you know, it's like that fast track like we were talking about of breaking through the analysis paralysis of feeling like you don't know what to do, so you're doing nothing at all. Hire someone who knows what to do, who can help you, you know, and skip all that, that, that blank space of you sitting around for 2 to 3 years of not doing anything and missing out on potentially, you know, tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars you could have been making if you would have started investing. So I love this conversation. It was selfishly for me to learn more also because I'm getting out of my comfort zone and getting more into this world. So thank you so much, Lindsay, for being here and sharing with us today, and we will talk to you guys next week. Bye!