Is it Love or the Bare Minimum? A Girl's Guide to Dating Standards w/ Victoria Alario

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Welcome back to the podcast. You are in for a treat this week because In this episode, I am joined by Victoria Ward, and we are spilling the tea on dating and relationships. From bare minimum vibes to embodying your highest standards, we're here to help you raise the bar on love with this conversation and hopefully make you laugh and just have a good fucking time together. So tune in for some hard truth if you want to hear two East Coast girlies that have no BS attitudes really just rip into this conversation about dating and relationships. Victoria Ward is a confidence coach and the host of For the Girls, the podcast. Victoria's courses and programs help women stop settling for the bare minimum, start raising the bar, and embody the 2.0 version of themselves. In this conversation, we cover so much ground. We talk about not needing constant validation and how to own your confidence, our hot takes on dating— is it love or is it just the bare minimum?— mindset tips to navigate relationships with greater ease, The conversation about splitting the bill. Our personal takes on what is okay and what is not. Why is everyone getting the ick over the smallest things? We talk about some of the scenes from Love Is Blind, the most recent season that's on right now. Why healthy romance is not the same as love bombing and usually doesn't include grand gestures. The difference between having high standards versus high expectations. Why training your man is kind of like training a dog. And was the man you dated really trash, or was he just not for you? Are we getting more traditional at the older we get as women? And that kind of arc from hyper-masculine girl boss to relaxed feminine housewife that so many of us are in the process of. And this idea of being the dream version of yourself to attract your dream life and your dream relationship. We truly cover so much ground and we had so much fun in this conversation. I can't wait for you to tune in. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly. Entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shift happen.

Welcome to the show, Victoria Ward. I'm so excited to have you on. I can't wait to chat all things for the girls, confidence, dating, energetics, just life stuff. You bring such an incredible energy to your content, and I think that's why, you know, you've been so magnetic in building a community, and people love following you. Just you know, I watch your videos and I'm like, okay, I can see why this girl has this community and people follow along. You have that energy of confidence. You speak in such a way where you can just tell you're a self-assured individual. You speak with conviction about things. You're very clear on your standards, your beliefs, your opinions. And I think that is what creates a lot of magnetism when it comes to people and personalities in general, but especially on social media. That's something I teach my clients a lot of, you know, being willing to stand in the truth of who you are and what you want, what you desire and what you believe, and allowing that to be the kind of polarization that either repels some people or really intensely magnetizes others. And so I can definitely, like, feel that energy from you. And we'll talk about the journey of confidence because you are a confidence coach. But it'll be interesting to kind of hear the backstory of if you've always been like that. But welcome to the show. We're so excited to have you. I can't wait to dive into everything.

Thank you so much. First of all, I am so honored, and I was also like smiling and nodding because I can 100% say all of the same things to you as well. Because of course, leading up to this, I was stalking your socials and looking at everything, and the same thing, you speak with so much conviction and power, and I think that that really resonates with people, especially people who need or want to be inspired. And like, they watch your content and you just give it. Like, it's I— everything that you just said, I feel the same exact way toward you. So I really appreciate that. And I'm also very excited for this collab because we're going to be on each other's shows and get to know each other and share each other's work with our audience. So I think this is going to be a lot of fun.

Yeah, we've got, we've got that like fiery energy that kind of matches with, with each other. East Coast girlies unite.

Yeah, 100%.

Exactly. Represent. Okay, so I want— I'm interested to hear about your kind of like journey with this idea of confidence because you're a confidence coach. That's a big part of what you instill in women when they come into your world and they watch your content, when they work with you. But I'm curious to know if you feel like you were always like that. Like, what was your childhood like? Um, what was your journey with stepping into this, like, fullest expression of yourself and really owning that confident side of you?

Yeah, well, I, I, I always start by saying yes, I was always a confident person, but that doesn't mean that I'm also not a human being who's a girl with emotions that has struggled insecurities. I absolutely have. And through going through all of life's trials and tribulations and dating and guys and friendships and this and that, of course I have had insecurities as well. But I think one thing about me that would maybe be different from someone else when it comes to really embodying confidence is that I've just always been a problem solver. And so when I have struggled with insecurities or something may have happened that could have put me down or whatever, I didn't sit in that for too long. I always just found my way out of it. I always saw the light at the end of the tunnel. I always found the solution to whatever that problem was. And I would just get over things easier than I think most, because most people really sit with why is this happening or whatever the case is, and they let those negative feelings linger for so long. And for me, it's always like, all right, you have your 5-minute pity party, and then you just carry on. And yes, I have been like that from a young age. And I also, from a young age, I think always kind of had that role in friend groups where, you know, I was the one giving my friends advice. And I feel like a lot of creators on social media tend to say that. They're like, this started from a young age where all my friends came to me, and now here I am as a creator on social media. And, and that, it rings true for me as well. I just feel like people always saw that in me, even if there were times when I didn't see it in myself. It was just always my underlying nature was, you know, confidence. And I— we will talk more about how it became a career, but for me it was all a natural progression. I mean, I— my career is essentially based on just my personality. One thing led to another, and now I'm here. And so yeah, I— even with insecurities, I think that my confidence was always one of the more powerful traits of mine.

I so resonate with that because I was also that friend my whole life. Like, I was the friend that was, you know, doing all the pep talks and the life chats and, you know, analyzing the situation with guys or dating or friendship dynamics. Or like, I'd be the first friend to like step in and stand up for somebody who was like not standing up for themselves. Like, it's very much I think been an energy as well that I've carried since a young age. But of course you go through things in life and you have your own insecurities. But to your point of what you were saying there, I think it's like having those experiences where you have doubt or fear or you question yourself or you don't feel that great about yourself, but ultimately not making it really mean anything about yourself, not creating a belief system around it. But simply just kind of like feeling the emotions and then being like, all right, and you know, the world keeps moving and so do I sort of energy. So that's like so helpful for everyone in general of like, are you sitting in something so long that it's not actually benefiting you anymore because you're not learning anything from it? You're not like— it's not helpful at this point. You're just like overanalyzing it and now you're creating all these belief systems or making it mean stuff about you. And there is a benefit to being able to turn the page and move forward, which I don't think is the most common conversation, especially in personal development, because a lot of the energy is like, you know, sit with your feelings, be with it. And like, that is all valuable, but it's also understanding the nuance and like that threshold of like when is too long. Like when, when do we go from processing to now just like overthinking and like pity partying for like far too long, which is an interesting kind of like concept of this no BS kind of approach of just like, yes, feel it, but then also turn the page.

Yeah, 100%. I also think that you mentioned nuance, and, and that lately is like a really big word on social media where a lot of people talk about the nuances of situations and, and the gray areas. And I think that was actually being the opposite. Like, that was a big thing also in my journey, was always seeing things very black and white, like very clear-cut, like, okay, this did not work out. I don't care why. It doesn't matter what the nuance is. It doesn't matter what the gray areas are. In black and white, this— it's not aligned, right? So like, we just have to keep it moving. And I do think, because a lot of people get hung up on the details of the who, what, when, where, why, and even in dating, oh, what, he— right person, wrong time, and all of these things that people romanticize. It's just never been me. And I've always been able to see things for what they are very clearly. And I think that has helped me a lot as well. Okay.

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Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about that because I love— we need some of your hot takes on dating. And I know that there's a lot of women, as we, you know, talk about confidence, that they kind of allow their experiences in dating, or, you know, they allow men in some way or another to heavily influence their sense of self-confidence. If they're getting that validation, they feel good. If they're not, they feel bad, etc. So I'm curious for you, like you said, you've always seen things kind of like black and white. How have your past relationships impacted the way that you kind of decided if someone was right or wrong or to stay or to move on? Like, what were some of those things that maybe happened or came up where you were like, had that black and white mindset of like, okay, well, if he's doing this, then absolutely not. Like, see you later, I'm gone. Or were there certain things where you were like, I don't know, is that a red flag? I'm not sure. Like, what— how was— how did that show up for you in dating?

Well, I do think obviously, like I just mentioned, like, I saw things very clearly. One of the biggest things that I notice in girls that struggle with dating, whether it be my clients or just someone who writes in on my podcast for advice or someone who comments my videos, is that girls really romanticize the situation, meaning they see things with rose-colored glasses. They see things, or they recall things better than what they were. It's almost like if you've ever seen a show and like, I can't think of what exact show, but in the, in the scene it's like she sees things one way, then like it goes back and shows the clip and like that's not actually how it happens. So sometimes girls have that tendency to be like, but there were these sparks and butterflies, and it's like really all he said was how was your day? Like it really wasn't that impressive. Like it was kind of the bare minimum. So I, I've always known for starters, and I think what girls always need to know is like what your, your standards are and stick to them. Because a lot of girls have preferences but not standards that are like requirements, meaning like this is the standard, okay? I will not accept a single thing beneath this. This is the standard. This is it. And not everything is going to be at the top of your totem pole. Not everything is going to be that important. So if it's a red flag, like it's clearly a red flag, and, and women know, girls know, our intuition tells us, then okay, carry it. Like, that's it, goodbye, on to the next. If it's something where maybe like you thought this would be really important, like I need to have a guy who dresses well, whatever, I'm just making that up, and maybe he doesn't, okay, that's not necessarily a red flag, right? So like those— there's a difference between preferences and then like your absolute standards that are pretty much requirements. So in dating, that's always been a baseline thing for me, is to navigate dating through knowing for sure what I will absolutely not accept less than. And I do think girls struggle with that because, like you mentioned, maybe they seek validation or they really try to, like, you know, keep things going for longer than they should, like a situationship or whatever the case might be. For me, a mindset— well, one thing is to always know that, like, your perception creates your reality. So if you perceive, you know, this guy is like— his opinion or whatever, his thoughts of you, on you being so, so, so, so, so important, then that is going to become your reality. Same way as if you have the mindset of like, dating sucks, then yeah, dating is going to suck. Everything that you think about certain situations ultimately ends up consuming you and becoming your reality. So if, if you're a people pleaser, you really care what people think about you, yes, you're going to constantly seek external validation. That also might come from— I don't really talk too much about the attachment styles, but one thing is that I know a lot of girls have that anxious attachment where they feel like, what if I don't meet anybody else? What if I never find better? I'm getting older, I'm about to be 30. Oh my God, I'm gonna shrivel up and die. I need to meet somebody now. Whereas I'm always, you know, I've always had a secure attachment where I can detach from things easily. Um, I don't force things because a really important mindset, at least in my opinion, is like, let's say someone desires marriage from— I always did, and a lot of my clients do. So I would always say like, your husband would never do this. Your husband would never make you feel that way. You would never have to force a relationship with your husband. If, if this guy is barely answering you, if the energy is not connected, if you feel like you would never see him unless you made that effort, Do you really think that that's husband energy? I don't think that your husband would do that. I don't think it's even possible that something would be meant to be, meant for you, if you have to force it. It would just happen. People say relationships are hard, dating is hard. What about it? Not the building a connection part. That's the easy part. The hard stuff is like, okay, now we're in this relationship and life throws scary hard things at us that we have to face together.. But the getting together part should not be hard. That's like the fun, easy, simple stuff. That's just like, I like you and you like me, and now we want to see each other. We want to keep connecting. The ho— it should not be like, oh, but he's constantly busy and never makes time for me. That's, that's not what makes dating and relationships hard. So I know that that was a lot of different things that I just said, but I feel like it's all little separate, like mindset tips that you can implement to understand like What, you know, if someone is not for you, point-blank period, you'll know, you'll feel it. And we can try to romanticize the situation and convince ourselves otherwise, but it's like trying to fit a square in a circle hole. It's just, it's not gonna happen.

It's like that saying that people always use of like, if he likes you, you know, and if he doesn't, you'll be confused. So if you're confused, or like you said, if you feel like it's hard at the very beginning, to me that is like massive, you know, red flag energy of just not your person. Regardless, they could be a great person. They're just not your person if you're not connecting at the very start. Like, my partner and I are watching Love Is Blind right now, and we're like, oh my God, like, if you have this many problems like a week deep, like, get the fuck out.

Like, what are we even doing?

Like, don't— and then acting like they're going to be able to like fix it. Like, no. Like, you should not have that many problems that early on with someone that you are— because like you said, if someone likes you and you like them, you will want to see each other. You will make time for each other. It will be exciting. It will be fun. You will not be fighting. You will not be arguing about things. There will not be weird topics coming up about jealousy, about what they're doing or who they're with. Like, it won't be like that. It just won't, point blank period. I fully believe that if you're with the right person that is all absolute non-issues, non-existence, especially in the early stages of a relationship.

100%. And another big thing that you just kind of reminded me with the Love Is Blind stuff, because I'm watching that too, um, I think a lot of people base their feelings for someone on very surface-level things like physical attraction, you know, he's funny, he's charming, he's smart, he checks my boxes in like Okay, he has a good job or whatever, surface-level things like that. And their feelings for them are not based on how that person actually makes them feel. So, okay, he doesn't answer my calls, or when I'm with him, he doesn't really give me that feeling of being too excited about me, or he has no urgency when it comes to dating me, meaning he's really not in a rush to plan a date. It's just like when it happens, it happens. These are things that don't make you feel good. It makes you feel like unwanted, unsexy. Unsexy— like, unsexy is not a word, but whatever— it makes you feel like this person's not even attracted to you. He's not excited about you. He's not urgent about you. So your feelings for him are based on things you could find in just about anybody else, especially with the Love Is Blind stuff where these people forget that this is a complete stranger you met 2 weeks ago. Like, the world will keep spinning, you know? And same with girls. You go on 1 or 2 dates with a guy and you're like, but he checks all my boxes. I wanted to work, he's so great, but he's not making plans for a third date. Well, that's not really making you feel great, so that should be how you feel about him, not the stuff you could find in anybody else.

Yeah, or, or this, you know, this idea of, um, I think people get so hung up— speaking of these like surface-level things, I think people get so hung up around, at least nowadays, I don't know, when I was dating this wasn't even a word, so, but like the ex and like even with like Love Is Blind, like they're all like, oh my God, no, don't do that, you're gonna give me the ick, like I'm gonna get the ick. I'm like, what is happening that if, if he does one single like silly thing, you're like saying that you're gonna get the ick and lose all attraction to him? I mean, that for me is a sign that your attraction to him is again based on all of the wrong things.

If you can— I know you're talking about the Hannah and right? When he went to go on the—

when he went to go sit on the duck. Like, for me, I was like, that's not your person. Not your person. But also, I was just like, this to me is showing her own personal insecurities with being herself, with being silly, with being goofy, with being expressive. Because like, he can be silly and playful and she obviously can't. So she sees that in him, it triggers her. She's like, don't do that, it's gonna give me the ick. That whole situation was just bizarre.

Yeah, and like, there couldn't be a more clear telltale sign that it's not your person, because with your person, those— you would laugh at those things, you would take out your phone and record him doing that. I'm sure you feel that way with your partner. I feel that way with my boyfriend. It's like, the, the limit does not exist. Like, we do the most ridiculous things together. And realistically, yes, you just brought up a really great point. A lot of people are very immature in dating, and then they, um, it's almost like a form of manipulation or gaslighting where they put it on you. Like, if this is a you problem, like, you're not XYZ enough for me. But what it really comes down to is like, you actually just might not be mentally, emotionally, you know, and energetically ready for serious commitment. Because like I said before, not everything is going to be at the top of your totem pole. So a guy maybe who doesn't have great style, like I mentioned before, that's not a red flag It's just like, okay, that's something that we can live with. So I think people mistake these icks and red flags or whatever the case is, and it's just, we need to go back to old school. That, I like old school dating better.

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Oh my God, I just thought of another thing too, uh, and then I think we can have a, a good conversation about this because I know you're a fan of, you know, being kind of like a high maintenance woman, especially when it comes to exactly like you said, having standards that are requirements, not preferences. So a standard means that I will not accept below it. It's not like a, you know, oh, if it works out, cool. If not, I guess I'll just live with it. It's like, if you actually have a standard, it means that it's a requirement, not a preference. And we can definitely unpack that. But I was thinking of the one scene in Love Is Blind where— I can't remember her name— but she like wanted to watch the fireworks with the guy, and he was in the middle of a conversation with one of the other dudes. And so she went out and like watched the fireworks with everyone else by herself, and then she came back. I knew, I knew I'm like, she's gonna make a stink about this. She comes back and she's like, oh, thank you so much for watching the fireworks with me, it was so romantic, thank you so much, and starts being really passive-aggressively annoyed that he like didn't watch the fireworks with her. I like the energy. And then there was an issue of like, you aren't bringing me flowers, you aren't whatever. I do think sometimes there are women that like you said, maybe they've gotten used to love bombing in other relationships where there were these, like, you know, aggressively over-the-top romantic gestures of, he's bringing me flowers, he's writing me handwritten notes, he bought me jewelry on the second date, he's, you know, picking me up in this horse-drawn carriage, like, whatever the fuck the love bombing situation is. And those are unhealthy dynamics, and those relationships end up fizzling out. But then it creates this perception that that is what romance is, or that is what love is. And so this contrast, what I'm getting at, is between having high standards, but then also this phenomenon that I see happening with a lot of people where they expect these really over-the-top romantic things all the time. And I almost think that it's an unrealistic expectation, and it's also not what's going to make you feel in love with someone if you're relying on him bringing you flowers every single week to feel in love, I don't think you're really in love. So what's your perspective on the balance of those scales of having high standards but also not, you know, having these like kind of ridiculous expectations of, of overly romantic gestures all the time?

Well, first things first, I always say that there's a huge difference between standards and expectations because I believe we are entitled to our standards, but we are not entitled to have expectations because Everyone is different. And so you can't expect anybody to have the same desires, standards, needs, morals, values, boundaries. Like everybody is different. We all have our own set of standards and whatnot. So expectations, having them in general, it, it, you're setting yourself up for failure in the first place because you're gonna probably more than likely be disappointed unless you do meet someone who in every possible way sees the world through the same exact lens that you do. My boyfriend and I were, I would say honestly, like 10 out of 10 compatible. But he, before me, he really never met someone or was with someone where they cared about certain things like that, like the flowers and whatnot, which I, I do care about. I like romantic gestures, but certainly not on a weekly basis. First of all, my apartment would smell like a funeral home, so please don't do that to me. Um, but also just in general, like, I like romance. You mentioned like high maintenance and For me, one of my favorite, like, TV show sayings was always, like, um, in Friends when Monica's like, everyone calls me high maintenance, and Chandler was like, sure, you are high maintenance, but I like maintaining you. And I've always loved that. And, and, and look at Monica, she wasn't asking for the horse and carriage. It just was, yeah, she likes things the way she likes things. And that's how I am. I like things the way I like things, but it never was an expectation of 'You have to do this for me.' It was more of like in the gradual process of my boyfriend and I getting to know each other, we just shared with each other what we both like. And I know what he likes, and trust me, I— he's high maintenance too. I maintain him very well. I am— I'm cooking a lot bigger dinners than I would be cooking if it was for myself, because I'm perfectly fine with girl dinner with a piece of tomato and salt and pepper. This man wants a 5-course meal, you know? Like, I know, like We both have our things. And so I think it's very important to make sure that you are compatible with someone in those ways where you do both have certain roles that you can make each other happy and maintain whatever those standards are for the other person. If you're with someone who— we're seeing someone say the fireworks situation. I can't, I can't remember either. A lot of the time I'm like fast forwarding through. I'm like, I can't take these people. But, but, you know, if you're with someone who just doesn't care about those things the same way that you care about things. One, there needs to either be a middle ground or compromise, or two, you guys just can't be together because you're not going to make each other happy. And so you gotta just keep trekking along until you find someone who you are compatible with in those ways. Because like I said in my original point, the expectations aren't fair because people see things differently. So if he's someone who's really, really, really low maintenance and he's like just trying to put up this front of doing it to make you happy, then yes, like you said, year 1, year 2, year 3, it's gonna fizzle out because he's like, well, I did it, like I did what you wanted me to do. And she's like, no, but I want you to do that forever. And if he's just not that kind of guy, then he's just not that kind of guy. And so you gotta know with what you're, what you're working with. And, and I also think that it's very fair for women to say, okay, well then I can't be with you because you can't give me what I want. Because if she has a certain set of standards, she's more than welcome to keep searching until she finds it. I just, I just do not like when I see a lot of videos or whatnot where girls get on this entitlement kick of like, you have to, or you should, and then they go out with a guy, then they tell the guy what he did wrong. It's like, no, you're just not on the same page, and that's life.

Yeah, yeah, I, I feel that energy a lot. I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of man-hating that that is happening. And it is interesting to see. And I have so much empathy and compassion for my single girlies and my friends that are still out there trying to find love. And, you know, dating world has definitely changed and evolved and become more challenging in certain ways. And so I definitely, you know, can empathize. And I see it, you know, for my, for my friends that are, that are going through it. But I don't think that, yeah, making men wrong about everything is also like the viable answer. Or like if he does something, you're like, oh my God, he was so trash because blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, he wasn't trash. He just wasn't for you.

You know, you know what? I, I, this is a big thing. I get a lot of girls who comment me or message me thinking that I'm going to be on the same page where they tell me like, girl, guess what? I went out with this guy. I offered to split the bill and he accepted. Like, what a loser, and blah, blah, blah. And my thing is always, again, I am a little bit more traditional and I like things the way I like things. From the beginning, my boyfriend always took care of the bill. He always paid the bill. We were never— have never been a 50-50 couple. That's just how we are. And that's my belief. However, with that said, I do not believe that it is fair for a woman to offer to split the bill.

Yeah, it's like babying him.

Like, what? And then be mad that he accepted. You are playing a game on him. It goes back to what we said about being immature. You're, you're not ready for a real relationship because you're, you're playing games with these people. You're testing people. You came to me to tell me, I tested this man and he failed my test. He had no idea that he was taking a test. He had no idea. He might have just said, sure, what a lovely gesture that you offered to split the bill and he just took it.

Also, also, what if the correct answer to your test was you trying to figure out if he was a feminist and you feel like it's degrading to you if he assumes that he's gonna pay for you because there are other women that feel like that. Like, it's almost like this impossible game for men that they're playing of like, they probably want to court women, or— and some, some of them don't, right? For sure, some of them don't at all. But like, some of them do, but they're also very confused because they don't want to offend you. And like some women take offense if you like think, you know what I mean? Like it's, I do have empathy. I'm like, damn, it kind of sucks.

Like I actually have a funny story on that. What? Sorry, keep going.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I want to hear the story.

This, this story was shared with me, so it's not my story. It was told to me in regards to someone else's friend. Um, this, this couple, the, this guy and girl went on a date that already knew each other. They were already friends for years prior, good friends. He asked her to get dinner, but there was no full-blown straight up like, I actually really like you and I want to take you on a date. It was like two friends going to get dinner. She liked him. He liked her. He didn't know if she was going to like see him as romantic, you know? And she didn't know if he was seeing this as a date or if he was just asking her to grab dinner. She said, I'm going to offer to split the bill. If he accepts, then I know this was not a date. It's just friends. He said, I'm going to pay the whole bill to show her to date. But if she offers to split, then I know she's not into me and we're just friends. So they went to dinner. She offered to split the bill, which made him think that she doesn't like him. So he accepted, which made her think she didn't like him. And so then there was just, you know, obviously unspoken. There was no communication or whatever. Now they are together to this day. They might actually also be married. Um, I don't really know, but my point is, in those beginning stages there, it's games. People don't know. Like, so for me, it's like, if you, if you want a guy to pay the bill, then, then don't even offer. Just say, thank you so much for taking me to dinner. Be gracious, be classy, be kind, and say, I really appreciate you asking me out and taking me out. I had a great time, and whatever. Like, it, it doesn't have to be this. So I always preach, like, just staying true to yourself and, and being honest with people. I think that's the kindest thing that you can do and leave it at that. Even if he's not the guy for you, whatever, you can still be kind. You don't have to turn around and say to me like, look at this loser, he accepted. Like, I— that it's just not for me. And I agree with you, I'm not with the man-hating either.

Yeah, yeah, it's not for me for sure. But I do, I do miss the days where men were like more helpful in public. That's what I was going to say, like on the airplane. I love when a man asks if he can put my suitcase up, and I always say yes. I'm like, yes, yes sir, please, absolutely, go for it.

100%. They don't do that anymore. I, I think it's kind of like you said though, because they're like, I don't want to offend you, I don't want to—

yeah, you know, they don't want to scare you, they want to scare you away, they don't want to get in your business. They're like, we get it, men are scary, I won't get close to you, it's fine. But I'm kind of like, come on. Like, sometimes when I'm on a flight and no one offers, I'm like, really? Are you fucking kidding me? All these dudes around and no one's like, look at me lifting this up by myself. Like, come on.

Crazy. I know, I know, I agree.

So crazy. Okay, I'm curious if you're open to share, like, what are some of your standards that you love?

Oh, um, okay, wow, interesting. I feel like I'm going way back because now we're at this stage where I'm like really like comfortable, obviously. But I would say when it came to dating, more or less, um, for me— and this might— a lot of people might not agree with this at all— but he planned every date, point blank, period. I didn't plan any dates. He planned every single one of them. That— and honestly, to this day, my boyfriend takes me on dates. We're together a year and a half now, and he still takes me on dates, and he, he's romantic and That was a big thing for me because I really wanted to feel the romance in a relationship. That was a big standard of mine, was I think, like, you know, people always say like, oh, romance is dead. And people— yes, my boyfriend and I are best friends, but I didn't want it to feel like a friendship. I wanted to feel like a woman being taken out by a man and he would open doors. And these are things I really paid attention to. And when we very first went out, like, he for the most part, open doors. But say that we were leaving the date and went back to the car and he went to go around, I would just stand there and be like looking at him and he's like, oh, and then he would come around. And so, you know, I kind of in some ways had to make those things known to make sure that he like picked up on it. And again, to this day, a year and a half later, he opens the door for me. Um, I, I, I also feel like being able to have like certain conversations, which might sound like bare minimum. But I was single for 10 years before I met my boyfriend, so I would go out with guys and every conversation was like the, what's up, what are you doing, how's work, like so surface level, like no substance, no depth. And I don't know why that is, that I don't know if it's a maturity thing, but a lot of people, like, I didn't feel like I could get deep with anybody. And so knowing that we could have like unhinged deep conversations, that was something really important. Um, and yeah, I feel like ultimately just making me— making sure I always feel like a lady, you know, and, and being really respectful. Um, those things are— were really important. And but I also think that going into like our relationship, because you don't get comfortable to the point where you guys don't like do anything, I think that even still to this day It was always important for me that we have a lot of harmony in our relationship, which for us translates through gender roles. Like, he has his role, I have mine. Um, I'm more of— I always had that saying where it's like, um, you can buy me a house and I'll make it a home. It does— I don't mean it in a literal sense. He didn't buy me a house, but it's more of just like it translates through what our dynamic is like. Um, and yeah, like we have our certain roles and for me that's what works because it creates the balance and you don't try to step into my territory. I don't try to step into your territory and we take care of each other in a very beautiful way. And there's that harmony of like, you have your masculine energy, I have my feminine energy and that for us, it just works. And I think it creates our own version of like an of equality because it's like you do you, I do me. We both bring different things to the table. And so yeah, I think that having the standards that I had from day one translated into like a very harmonious relationship, you know, a year and a half later.

Yeah, beautiful. When you say that he planned all the dates from the beginning, was that because he just— that was naturally the energy that he carried? He kind of had that masculine leadership, he wanted to do that? Or was there any communication where you said, you know, I love when you plan the dates, or I love that you plan all these dates, and kind of like leaned in to like hint at him to like keep doing it?

Um, no, it's definitely his natural way. He is for sure a little bit more old school, gent— gentlemanlike, and he is. But there was also a time where before he— well, it was right before we went on our first date, um, he was cut— we were having this conversation of like, what do you like, blah blah blah. And I— this is what I said, and I think it's set the tone for everything to go for the future. I was like, I really like sushi and I really like a man with a plan. And then he took me to Nobu for the first date to have some sushi. And then that was it. He said— he wrote, okay, noted. He sent me like the little check emoji, noted. Um, you like a man with a plan? And then like, that, that was my form of like communication, just telling them what I like. I also really like the way that you, um, Victoria Ward, that when you were like saying, I love when you plan dates, because I think that, that positive affirmation of telling them what you love and how it makes you feel is so powerful, especially when women want to lean more into their feminine energy. Because I noticed that a lot of women, and I used to struggle with this as well, because I used to be in business a lot more hustle, hustle, and that really took over my whole life. Now I have a different line of work, which I think just in general created room for more softness in my life. And so that helped in relationships and dating too. But back in the day, and what women I see now with that really masculine energy, is saying it more in a negative way. Well, you're the man, you should know how to— what to do. You should, you should, you could, blah blah blah, whatever. And it's very— it's like a controlling way, it's a demeaning way, it's also an emasculating way of being like, well, you're the man, So that's your job. And even if— sure, even if you feel that way, like for me, I'm like, yeah, that is his job. You just, you just don't say it. It's not feminine. If you want to feel— like I said, I wanted him to make me feel like a lady. If you want to feel like a lady, then you got to make him feel like a man. And with, with what I've noticed, like, that I've seen the most reward come from is having those positive words of affirmation of, it makes me so happy when you do this, it really feels good when you do this. One of my biggest ways for— because I talk a lot about the guys planning dates, girls comment like, what do I say? I always say that you can just say to him, um, I trust your judgment, surprise me. If he's like, what do you want, what do you want to do, where do you want to go? You tell him, I trust your judgment, and that man will say, okay, well then I need to make sure I do this right because she's trusting me, like she's putting that faith in me. And as a man, I want to steer her in the right direction. So saying that, like, I trust your judgment, surprise me, is so much better than being like, why are you asking me where I want to go? Aren't you the guy? That's your job. So words are very, very important when it comes to bringing out the masculinity or the femininity in your partner.

Yeah, it's almost like training a dog. Like they always say, like, positive rewards work best.

Yes, you know what, that's so, that's so true. I never thought of that, but That's so true. Not to relate— you get a treat if you're good. Literally not to relate, uh, training your man to training a dog.

But yeah, that's what they say, positive reinforcement, ladies. And I think, like, to your point of someone who can be very in their masculine, especially if you are in your kind of like hustle era, which I definitely was and sometimes still am, you know, building a big business, it's a balance of moving between those two states. But when I was first really trying to surrender some of the control in our life so that I could be more at peace and be more in my feminine energy, there were things that I had to allow and encourage him to lead on. And then I couldn't really like be a brat or complain about the result when it wasn't perfect or it wasn't the way that I would have done it, because that— I knew that that would not be encouraging for him to continue to take control on those things. So I think You know, to your example of saying, I trust your judgment, surprise me. And then he takes you somewhere and if you don't like it and then you throw a fit and you're a brat, then, you know, it kind of defeats the whole purpose of even using that line because it's not, it's still not the positive reinforcement. And so it is, it's like this compromise of sometimes you just have to like say, you know, this was, this was really great. And you could share your preferences and say, oh, we should do this again sometime. And maybe we could go to a place where I can like really dress up, or like give some sort of suggestion, some sort of hint. But you just can't— yeah, you can't like beat them down when they finally do the thing that you wanted them to do. Which, yeah, if you're a control girly, it's, it's tough. And if you are a perfectionist girly, oh man, because it's like that, that feeling of like— the thing that I surrendered to my boyfriend was laundry. Because I was building a business and I was like, I don't have time to do laundry, um, I'm gonna need your help and support. Because he was like, what can I do? Like, let me take some of the load off. You obviously can't do tasks for me in my business, but like, we have a lot of household stuff that we share. And okay, so laundry. And it was just— I share this example a lot, so my audience is probably like, we get it, Sam. But the— when he would fold the clothes, like, I literally couldn't tell the difference if they had just come out of the dryer and were in a pile, or if they were like folded. Like, that's how bad the folding was. But I just had to smile smile and be like, thank you, honey, I'm so glad you did the laundry. But you know, it got better, it got better, and I haven't done laundry in years, and that's, that's a great feeling.

Wow. Okay, whatever training tips you got there. No, just kidding. But, but it's, it is true because you know what, I think a lot of women who may be like us, like whether you built a business or whatever your life is that brings the hard shell out of you, that brings that toughness out of you. Have the mindset of like, I could do this so much better. And so you get like, it's almost like a resentment toward this person because yes, say he did pick and plan the date and it wasn't something that you like, then you're like, I could, you know, I could have done this better or whatever. Folding the laundry, you're like, I could have done this better. It's, that's a mindset that we really have, like you really have to train yourself to get out of. And I had to as well. And honestly, This isn't gonna be the case for everybody because not everyone's just gonna switch up their job and change their job. Fortunately for me, I was in a position where I was able to transition out of, you know, one career and kind of like shift into another. If you feel like, okay, maybe you can't do that. If you feel like you gotta just work with what you have and you, you're sticking with your business, you're sticking with your job, you have to have that like, um, what— I'm not sure the right word— where it's like that balance or that separation of like, this is gonna be my energy at work, and the second I'm off the clock, the second that I shut that computer down, I'm surrendering and I'm tapping out of that energy, and I'm gonna lean into my feminine energy. Like, you have to, you have to say, okay, like, work is work, and then my home life is my home life. And you really need to know how to separate the two and, and whatever you have to do, whatever sort of personal, you know, development or self-care, or just like those 5 minutes of like relaxation that you have to do to snap out of that energy. Like, you cannot take that energy home. Think about, okay, say that your man has a job out, like not home, like, and he's out and he's working all day, and then he come and he had a bad day and he got treated like shit or whatever, and then he comes home and walks in the door and puts it on you. You'd be like, I've been home all day, don't start attacking me now. Like, I was not part of your shitty day, so what the fuck? Like, you wouldn't like that. And so a lot of the girl bosses and the hustle girls and all that, they don't hold themselves accountable to that same energy. And they are very like, you know, well, I, I'm busy. And like you said, I don't have time to do this, this or that. Like, get it out of my face. Like, I can't. And so You don't— you just— you want to know, you want to be able to separate those energies. And, and yeah, whatever that looks like for you. For me, it was having a shift in my career. For someone else, if that's not the case, you gotta, you gotta really definitely work on that.

Yeah, I think some people talk about, you know, having some sort of ritual at the end of their workday that kind of allows them, whether it's like a walk or it's a shower or it's a meditation, or it's something that just kind of like, if you do it enough, it becomes this— you create this association in your brain, in your body of like, this means work is over and like personal life, it begins. And I think that's a beautiful way of creating that separation of, I was in my masculine kind of like hustle energy to get work done and be a boss at my career, at my job, whatever. And then I do this one thing that helps me drop into my body, that helps me relax, and then I move into, you know, the evening with my lover at home, and I can kind of be in that feminine energy. And that— it takes practice. Like, I'm not even going to lie to you. I think especially when you work from home, because for a lot of people it's the location. Locations hold energy. And so if you go to work, you can feel that you're in that masculine at work, and then you leave, you drive home, you put some music on, you listen to a podcast, whatever, you You get home, you're like, oh, I'm so happy to be home. I'm tired, can't wait to eat some food, want to be with my man. And then the energy naturally kind of shifts because you've changed states and home is like this sanctuary for you. But I work from home, so all of the work energy is also in the fucking house. So true. So it does become a little bit— it does become a little bit more challenging also because you're at home but you could also be at work. Are you at work or are you at home? Your body, your nervous system doesn't always know. So I think in that case, it is really important to have some sort of ritual. Like, if I go outside and I go for a walk, once I close the laptop, I'm, I'm good to go after that. Once we come back to the house, it's almost like the energy is reset.

Yeah, 100%. And for me, that was so— the— my first apartment, like, when I had first moved out of, like, after college and first moved out of my parents' house, um, my very first apartment was a one-bedroom. And most people to this day live in a one-bedroom. There's nothing wrong with it. But for me, I felt exactly what you're saying because I had my desk in my living room. And like, it's kind of like, let's go back to a dog thing. It's like they don't sleep where they shit, you know? They're not going to sleep. They're not going to shit in their bed because they sleep there. They're not going to sleep on their wee-wee pad because they shit there. For me, it was in my living room. So it was like my desk and my couch were right next to each other. So if I'm sitting on the couch just trying to watch TV, I also feel the energy of like my office essentially being right next to me, or if a notification would pop up or an email would pop up, I instantly went back into work mode and would sit right back at my desk and like there was no separation. And so after that very first apartment, I was like, I will always need, you know, a 2-bedroom or, or more, whatever, so that I could have the office for a separate space. That might not be the case for everybody, but if you can financially do that, I do recommend it because it made a big difference for me because I have my office., and I'm able to shut the door and not look in the office when it's not work time. And because it's further from the living room or my bedroom, I don't find myself the way I used to, just popping in and out of bed onto the couch or in and out of bed into the desk or in and out of the couch into the desk. And there was one other thing that I wanted to say to one of your points. I forget exactly what you said because I just went a little bit off track. But, um, when it comes to— I think that you, you were just talking in general about, you know, the energy and the balancing with your relationship and whatnot. A lot— because a lot of girls do want a masculine man, and they all say, I want a guy like this, or whatever. If you are really struggling still, and to that, because listen, let me also preface, everyone has both. So even as a woman, you're You could be a highly feminine woman, you still have masculine energy. So if you're struggling to know how to balance and have both of those things, my biggest thing is always to remember that your, your dream man, like the guy that you're really seeking, so say that it is a masculine man, is seeking his dream woman. So his dream woman is going to be, for example, the feminine woman. And you could, you could replace this with anything. It doesn't have to just be about energy, but that's topic of conversation right now. So your dream man is seeking his dream woman. And, and if you are not your dream self— and this is, forget him, eliminate him out of the picture, let's just talk about within right now— if you are not the dream version of you, then you're not going to be his dream woman either. So if you're still sitting there like, I hate that I'm like this, or I wish I wasn't so in my masculine, I wish I was more feminine, I wish I was kinder, I wish I was nicer, or whatever, um, you're, you're still not the dream version of yourself, so you're not going to be someone else's dream person either. So it's kind of like I always say, everything in life is your mirror. So what you're seeking is seeking you. And so yeah, if you, if, if you're seeking that, you know, dream man, then he's gonna seek your— that dream woman. So you gotta be the dream version of yourself and fall in love with yourself and be so happy with yourself first before you're going to find that guy who will fall in love with you too. And I always say to my boyfriend that we met when we did and it worked out the way it did because of that work that I did on myself first. Those 10 years that I was dating and I was really hyper-masculine and really hustle, like I used to convince myself when things didn't work out with guys that it was just because they were intimidated by me. Every guy was just intimidated by me. No one could handle me. They can't handle my success. They can't handle all of these things. And that's what I had convinced myself for a long time until I got to an age where my frontal lobe developed. And I'm like, actually, they just don't like that. They just don't like it. They're looking for a woman that I am not. And I didn't work on myself because of that. I worked on myself because I wasn't fully content with myself. I always knew the life I wanted for myself, and I wasn't aligning myself with that. I wasn't aligning myself with my true core values. Which is we didn't talk about it on here, but you and I talked before the call that I lived in Florida for a little while and now I'm back home where I'm from. So for anybody listening, I moved around a lot. Now I live back where I'm from. And, and spoiler alert, I'm dating a guy where I'm from, which back when I was moving around, I used to say I would never date a guy from my hometown. That was my whole thing. I'm so much bigger and better than this and whatnot. And when I was living in Miami, I had a big breakthrough where I was like, I say I want a certain lifestyle, I want a certain love, I want a certain relationship, I want a certain future, but my actions and my environment and my lifestyle are not aligned with that thing. And that breakthrough made me decide to move back by my family and be back by more love and just a different environment where I'm able to be softer, where I feel more taken care of, because when I am alone and so independent. I had that mindset of like, no one has my back except for me. Only I could take care of myself. So I was very hard-shelled and that really came out a lot in dating. And I was very like aggressively like, fuck off with guys, which I kind of still am. I am from New York, so, you know, I can only be so nice. Um, but my point is that breakthrough made me shift into the things that make me just feel more of what I wanted, what I really saw for my future. Because I had this thought process of like, I'm doing this work for now, but one day I'll be that, one day. And I just kept working for future me, and I was never just becoming her now at that moment. And so when I had that breakthrough, I moved closer to home. I really shifted my energy. I felt so much better. I still had some dating fails, But then fast forward a year, I met my boyfriend and like it all made sense. And so he had high standards, I had high standards, we were both in a position aligned in the life that we really wanted. And that's why it worked out when it did. If I met him a year or plus prior, it would have never ever worked out. I know I just said a million things, but everything you said triggered different thoughts for me, so I had to get it all out there.

Isn't it so interesting that I feel, I feel like a lot of women in our like kind of age range generation had this arc of like growing up really wanting to be super hyper independent and like to be the boss girl and like had these dreams of working in corporate and like making her own money and or maybe owning a business, like really like rising in the ranks, being really important, being financially successful on her own. Like it was very much— I feel like we grew up with like the I don't need no man sort of energy. And then I— and then it's interesting because I find a lot of us now swinging more traditional, where we're like going back to like, but I kind of want to make sourdough, and like I also kind of like, kind of want to like have babies and just like stay home with them and like be a homemaker. Like maybe you still want to work, but like you start to kind of like— and maybe it's because I turned 30, but I don't know, I see it in so many of my friends and Even like a lot of my entrepreneur friends, they're like, yeah, I feel like a lot of my like earlier stuff was like trying to prove something to myself. And then I just was like, wait, it feels a lot better for me to actually just be softer and be more feminine. And that's exactly what you're describing, that arc of, you know, from being in the hyper-masculine to then really wanting to lean into your feminine. And even everything you said of you know, moving to these like big cities and being in the metropolis and being in, you know, being trying to be in the best parts of America that have these vibes where you can be like the it girl and you could be building your business, you could be important and whatever. And then being like, oh, wouldn't it be nice actually to like move home and like be close to my family and like date a guy from my hometown, which you would have never, never wanted to do before. It's just very, it's just very interesting that we're all kind of like on that sort of arc.

It's— it— I don't know what the exact like causation and correlation is, but like, yeah, we, we grew up with a certain work ethic instilled in us. I, at least I could say for my parents, it was like, you know, you want to be successful, you want to make money. We also like were a big generation that became more successful than our parents, which I think is like a big deal. Like a lot of our parents were always like middle class or like lower middle class, and then um, you know, we were taught like, or we saw like, okay, we want to do more than that. We want to be able to give our kids more than we were given. And my parents gave me every single thing that they possibly could, but, you know, with the resources that they had. And so for us, I think because we lived that and we experienced that and so on and so forth, um, you know, we, we saw, we saw the potential like as we were younger, and we saw what you know, people had on TV or what other people had. Or like, even for me, I grew up with friends who were just wealthier and like they live, grew up in ginormous houses. And so I always was like, that's what I wanna give my kids. And so as I grew up and like, I mean, I graduated college a year early because I was in such a rush to make money. I was like summer classes, winter classes, studying abroad, extra credits every semester because I was like, I wanna work right away. And so I, I mean, by 21 I was like, you know, corporate full-time job in the city, which, it isn't like, you know, that groundbreaking, but it's quite young, you know. Most of my friends at 21 were like, I'm gonna take a break after college and figure out what I want to do. But I was just like so ready to, you know, change my future and my family and make money. And, um, but then as I got older, I'm like, maybe this is why my parents weren't millionaires, because it's a lot of fucking work and it's exhausting and they just want to chill. So, you know, I mean, Now, yeah, I don't— and I'm almost 30, I'll be 30 in a few months. So I'm in the same place as you where it's like being a homemaker just sounds sexy. Like, I just— I want to put on an apron and just call it a fucking day.

I know, I know. But I also, I think I have so much appreciation for like that version of me because I do think, oh, it's easy to say like, yeah, no, I'm going to transition my career or be this homemaker or whatever. Um, which I think that, you know, I have been afforded the ability to relax a little bit this year and do things a little bit differently in my business especially, or like take Fridays off and like only work 4 days a week and do things like that because of what I— the work that I put in before. So I also have to put some respect on my name of like, you know, a shout out to past me who did show the fuck up because that gave me the opportunity to then be able to change my tune and to even like allow that to be possible also.

Yeah, 100%. I, I have a podcast episode that's like— not that, not that hustling is like a bad experience, but I have a podcast episode that's titled like, "Your worst experiences create your, your best qualities," or something of the sort. And it had nothing to do with work per se, but the point is just that like We, we can't just look at ourselves now and be like, okay, now I like myself, or now I'm happy.

It's like all the shit we've been through, like, now I finally figured it out and this is right and everything I thought before was wrong. It's like, no, what you thought before was right for the time, it was right for the season, it was right for the, for the period, and then it helped you in the position that you're in now.

And you— we all, like, 100%, I could not stress that enough. Because that's the other thing too. If I didn't do that then, it would be something now that I'm like, I now I want to do that, because then I would always have had that, you know, wondering of what if. And if I never moved and did that whole lifestyle in my young 20s, and that's what I would want to be doing in my 30s. So like, I'm so glad that I did all the things that I did and that I worked the way that I did, because it, it matured me. It brought me to the season that I'm in now. So shout out to, like you just said, past us, because it's— I, I think that every single season that we went through is so beautiful.

Yeah, yeah. And so purposeful and just kind of like guiding you to where you are now, which I love so much. Thank you so much for coming on the show. This is such a fun conversation. I can't wait to continue over on your podcast. But let everybody know where they can find you, follow you. You guys need to follow Victoria if you don't already. Like, she has really great content. I'm going to be on her show, For the Girls. Yeah, shout out your handles. Let them know where they can follow along.

Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me and for doing this. I'm really so excited to, like you just said, continue the conversation. But yes, so I'm on Instagram and TikTok with my handle of Victoria Ward, Victoria Ward, Victoria Ward. I'm sure it'll also be linked in the show notes. And then, yeah, my podcast is everywhere as well, and it's just called For the Girls. And you could find that on Apple, Spotify, Instagram, TikTok. Just about everywhere, and the handle for that would be ForTheGirls.podcast.

Love it. Okay, we'll link everything in the show notes for you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you have a girlfriend who is dating or would love this type of conversation, copy the link, send it to her in a message, let her know that you were thinking of her, and we will talk to you guys next week.

Bye!