It’s Fun Being Hot (and Talented): How to Stay Confident, Creative & Uncopyable Online w/ Poster Journal

What if your personal diary became the internet's favorite mirror? What's up, you guys? Welcome back to the podcast. Today I'm sitting down with the anonymous creative behind Poster Journal, the viral account with millions of followers and the iconic tagline, "I say what you're thinking." If you've ever scrolled Instagram and laughed out loud at a blunt, cheeky quote that felt a little too real, chances are it was one of theirs. What started as a college student's lockdown project of making a poster a day has grown into a cultural brand, part poetry, part confession, part affirmation that has reshaped how we think about self-expression online. Behind the sunglasses and anonymity is a creator who's blended philosophy, humor, and raw honesty into a voice that is impossible to scroll past. In this conversation, PJ opens up about how an obsession with Stoic philosophy and his lockdown hobby turned into a 5-year viral brand, why remaining anonymous has made his work more honest, and why people assume that PJ is a girl boss in New York, not a dude in Laguna. We talk about the secret creating content with humor, bite, and unapologetic confidence, how laziness can actually fuel your consistency, and the truth about being obsessed with your craft. We also dive into what it's actually like when you start making money from your passion and it can no longer be a hobby anymore. If you've ever felt torn between wanting to create for yourself and needing to build something sustainable, this episode will give you a behind-the-scenes look at how one anonymous artist cracked the code on both. Plus, he's hilarious and we had so much fun on this episode, and I made him play a fun version of Smash or Pass at the end. We called it the Chronically Online Edition, so I think you guys are going to enjoy it. Let's dive into this episode. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shift happen! Okay, I'm already smiling ear to ear just because I know that this is going to be such a fun conversation just from our 15-minute, like, setup situation behind the scenes getting this off the ground. Oh my God. Welcome to Makeshift Happen, PJ Poster Journal. I'm so excited that you're here. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited and I'm so glad we got everything running.

I know, I know. You know, it's always a, it is a struggle when you're just a girl and, and the technology is technologying. But we figured it out and, uh, we got the shot and we're here. So, okay, I'm so excited to kind of get into some behind the scenes of your life, your double persona, your business, because I've been loving your quotes on the internet for several years. And I think everyone listening to this podcast might not know that they follow you, but a lot of them probably already do. So you are Poster Journal, that's your kind of alter ego, that's your account on Instagram. Your bio Victoria says, I say what you're thinking, and nothing has ever been more true. When I read that, I was like, that is facts. That's which is why it creates such a level of like magnetism and resonance, because you have this way of just saying things in like this blunt, funny, sarcastic fashion where you just go, that is my internal world. Yes, exactly, that is, that is my internal world. So you've been creating these like really unique kind of style. It's like 3D poetry almost. I think that's how you've described it sometimes. And it's really specific and recognizable for both like the visual format of how you do it and also like we talked about that, the like cheekiness of the messages that you share. So how did like, how did that come to be? How did Poster Journal become a thing and these iconic quote posts like Where did that all get birthed from?

Well, first of all, you really did your homework and like you have a better understanding of what I'm doing than I do, it sounds like. So that's awesome. And like, we'll figure out what I'm doing together in real time, but perfect. Okay, so Poster Journal, PJ, um, is 5 years old this summer and I started doing this over COVID when I was still in college and, uh, lockdown happened and I was a social butterfly. I'm a social butterfly and all of that was kind of taken away from us. And I had all this extra time on my hands. And I was obsessed with this book, Letters from a Stoic, which is like ancient Roman philosophy. And it really transformed me. And I was obsessed with these quotes and highlighting everything. And I imagined, I like, I want to put these everywhere. I want to absorb them. I want to see them in my life constantly. What if I made them into posters? And I already knew Photoshop and Illustrator and all that stuff from like middle school and high school. And so all of those things converged, all of those things kind of unrelated things set up for me to get, uh, this idea to make a poster every day. And for some reason I committed to that. There's, there's a strong— and we'll get to this— a strong theme of like commitment and continuity and not giving up that is a big part of PJ. And it comes out in the messaging, but it's also just part of like, I don't know, one of the brand values, if you can even call it that. Um, anyway, so I started doing that and I made a new poster every day for, I think, 2 years. And I started with quoting from the book, and eventually I ran out of those quotes and I was like, well, I decided to make a poster every day, so I need to do something. And I just started using my own words and whether they were— I go between like silly and serious and sarcastic and, and a little, sometimes a little sad. And I don't know if that comes out as much now, but it's in there. And that's just what I, I kept doing and kind of developed a voice. And the thing is, you can call PJ an alter ego or persona, but it really is me. This is the anonymity, uh, and this, this character I created, which isn't a character, really is me. Like, being anonymous allows me to be myself. If I had my name and my, my full face out there, I think I would be holding back a lot more. And you did kind of touch on— maybe you said like these are kind of universal feelings. This, this really is my diary minus the specific people, places, and things. So to me it's very transparent what I'm going through. To me it's very revealing. To other people, there are people in my life I'm writing about them, they don't even know. So that, that's kind of where it came from.

Yeah. So if you guys aren't watching us on YouTube on video, you won't be able to see that PJ has got his sunglasses on, his hat. Like, you really can't tell who he is, and he really does keep keep that anonymity of his identity, which is really, really cool. And I wanted to ask you, because I've heard you say that you kind of feel like Hannah Montana sometimes, like living this sort of double life. And I'm like, that is so funny because we all wanted to be Hannah Montana growing up. Hello. But yeah, you, you go to your interviews with these sunglasses on and the hat. It's like your branded Poster Journal hat, so it makes sense. But like, what was the— I mean, obviously it makes sense wanting that, that authenticity and the rawness of feeling like you can put your— almost like your true diary entry out there when people don't know who you are. But was there any other, like, inspiration or thought process behind initially concealing your identity online in a world that is obsessed with personal branding? Like, and you're young and you know that, and everyone else your age that was starting to create and post online during the pandemic was probably taking a very different path. So I'm just curious how, how you decided to do that.

Well, I, I first started posting on my personal Instagram, and that bothered and annoyed everybody, and they didn't care about what I was doing. So I knew I needed to make something separate, and the original name was Posters from a Stoic, like a play on Letters from a Stoic, because I was committed to that book and I thought that's all I was gonna do. And we can get into the story about how I, I was— once I finished that phase, maybe a couple months in on that book and needed to do my own stuff. I was like, I need a new name. And I thought of like 200 and none of them felt right. And then one day, probably in the kitchen or something, the idea for Poster Journal, the name Poster Journal, it was literally a, a lightning bolt down my back. That sounds very dramatic, but it was like a shock down my back and instant adrenaline rush because it was so perfect. And it still to me feels extremely perfect. It's describing exactly what I'm doing and Um, I was like shaking and I was like, I need to go see if this username is available. And then it was, and I knew in that moment my life was like about to change forever. And that was true. You asked me about why did I want to be this like anonymous thing. I mean, I had a phase in high school, maybe early college, where I was really into kind of being a person on social media. And, and I had a lot of friends like that, still have a lot of friends like that, and that's cool and love that. Um, but I, I am also strangely a private person, which I don't know how you balance that with like publishing your diary online. Um, there, there's just something really cool and mysterious about— I don't know if you can even call it a brand. I guess it is a brand. Poster Journal is a brand, but it's It's like I said, it's a separate, um, it's a mask. It's a mask that allows me to be myself, where if I had my name and my face, I don't know that I would be honest. I just, I, I think there's too much posturing and I would be too self-conscious. We can talk about how self, how self-conscious I became once I got more attention and then how I overcame that. Um, but that, that's really the anonymity affords me the ability to be myself.

Yeah, it's so interesting that you talk about like the self-consciousness like aspect because you have so many iconic confidence quotes. Like, there are so many parts of PJ that come off as like, holy fuck, like this— it's like it's giving like it girl energy, you know? Like, I, I have a couple of here because I love them so much. They're so good. I would be embarrassed if I wasn't me.

Okay, don't even remember that. Love that.

It's fun being hot and it's more fun knowing it.

Yeah, love that.

I know my place and it's on top.

Love that.

I give the people what they want and what the people want is me.

It's me.

Yeah, oh, they're so good. I took a long hard look in the mirror and thought, wow, thank God. Yes. So good. Uh, a healthy self-esteem involves knowing you're the best. So like, there is this, this energy in air of— but it's a mix, right? Like you said, there is sometimes this like tortured, um, existential kind of sadness thing that's going on in the energy of PJ2, but there is a lot of this confidence. So I would love to hear that story that you mentioned of, you know, when you became more popular, going through the self-consciousness, because there is so much of this type of energy that comes through in the quotes.

Well, I'm so glad you brought that up because now I just remembered these are affirmations. These are, these are primarily, I do this all for myself. I need these for myself. I, these are my way of strengthening myself, getting clarity, uh, loving myself. I'm making fun of that, but it is super important and it's, it's work. That I need to do and everybody else needs to do. These are affirmations. These are— and there's a lot of affirmations out there, and everybody knows what affirmations are, and good for them. These are the ones that work on me. I need something that's not very serious. I need, I need to make fun of narcissism. I need to say it's okay to be a little narcissistic. It's, it's in some ways it's harmless. Um, I, I like to take the seriousness out of it. Um, and that, that's how it works on me, because obviously, like, the type of person that says, I, I took a long hard look in the mirror and thought, wow, Thank God. That's like totally insane, but it's fun. It's, it's like, you don't need to be so concerned about coming across as— if I was, if I was a person on social media, I would, I would feel bad saying that, but because I'm this jester, this sort of clown, I am allowed to do that. And then I give everybody else permission and see, see how fun it is to be like unserious about this sort of thing and also how good it makes you feel. That's, that's what this is for.

It's so good. It's so good. No, I love that idea of your affirmations, taking the seriousness out of things, letting it be funny and silly and unserious. But also at the same time, like as a consumer, when you read it, you do think, damn, like, that's funny. And I would love to feel that way about myself. Like, hell yeah. Like, and so it works. It gives everyone else the permission to kind of step into a little bit more of an unapologetic version of themselves. I think one of my biggest pet peeves with like social media in general these days is just how PC everything is. Like, just how, like you said, the posturing of, you know, needing to be not offending anyone and needing to take into account everybody's situations and their past and their traumas and their identities and their whatevers. And it's really hard to be light and funny when you're doing that. Yeah, that's a lot of what I think has been extracted and is now missing from the social landscape because people are themselves, they are building a personal brand. And so it can be devastating when you say the wrong thing that gets taken the wrong way and then you get canceled. So I mean, fair enough, like that's why people don't do it. But I love that, I love that so much. I love reading these. I want these to be my— I need to buy the posters of them, fucking hang them up in my office. Like, they're so good.

Yeah. And that's— they're, they're supposed to be functional, that you're supposed to see this stuff in your life. I'm supposed to see this stuff my life and raise my vibration. And, and I've gone through so many phases of like spiritual, and like first I started very much into philosophy, and then I got very like 1960s woo-woo Ram Dass spiritual stuff, and then, then I got very into manifestation and law of attraction and stuff within like the last year. And it's— that's what this is for. Like, I'm trying to, to keep myself in a vibration of there's so many ways to feel good. And over the past maybe 3 months or something, I've been kind of sort of re-releasing the catalog and then mixing in with new stuff. But I'm naming these, these chunks that I put on my Instagram, these carousels, I'm naming them by their feeling. And there's so many different ways to feel good. You can feel wise, you can feel dramatic, you can feel invincible. That it's, it's that's what I'm selling in a way, is these little wayfinders and signs to feel good. And, and there's a sort of precision to the wording that works on me to just get me there right away. You know what I mean?

Okay, so I have something I think you're really going to love and your business is going to love it even more. Do you want to steal the strategy I've been using to seduce premium buyers and sell out my offers on Instagram Stories? Chances are odds are you're already posting, you're already making sales. But if your Instagram stories aren't working as hard as you are, you're leaving money on the table. Sold Out Stories is going to teach you exactly how to change that so that you can sell out any offer at any price point. And even high-caliber coaches miss this because selling on stories isn't about how much you post or how frequently you show up face to camera. It's about psychological sequencing. And the way you're posting right now might be giving the premium buyers in your audience the ick. Documenting your day and hoping it builds trust, posting look-at-me content and calling it authority, sharing client wins as soon as they drop in instead of strategically weaving them into a story-selling sequence designed to drive demand and convert sales. We both know that you're not here to learn how to show up more. You're here because you know your content could be converting faster and more effectively. Sold Out Stories is going to give you 5 high-converting story-selling frameworks built specifically for premium buyer psychology. Inside, you'll get over 6 hours of deep dive video trainings, real IG story breakdowns, and live walkthroughs that show you exactly how to elevate your slides from authority building all the way to offer flow in less than 10 slides. My clients have already been using these frameworks to pull 5-figure sales days while posting less. One client generated 14 premium leads from a single story sequence. Another sold out her event in under 6 hours with 8 strategic story slides. No sales calls, no paid ads, just the right frameworks. You'll walk away knowing how to sequence for desire, transition into your offer seamlessly, and sell daily without ever feeling salesy. You already know your offer is incredible, so now it's just time for your stories to sell it like it is. Grab Sold Out Stories today and turn 10 slides or less into your highest converting content. Let's make your next story your most profitable one yet. Click the link in the show notes below and I'll see you inside. Yeah, it's— precision is a really good word because I read, I read what you write and I'm like, I know that this is a cluster of maybe 6 words, but every single word is perfect for the emotion that's trying to be conveyed here. Like, it really is that. It's like the, the messaging is so elite, the way that you write it, and also the spacing of things, which I know you think about. I know you're a creative genius in that regard. Like, it adds to the way that I read it and the way that I, I feel as a result because of how it's expressed. So it is totally genius, which I'm very—

thank you. I'm very happy about this style that I've been doing for maybe, maybe almost 2 years. I didn't start out with this, uh, I was doing a lot imagery and like illustrations for a long time that paired with this. And this is what I've always wanted to do is just the words, but I never thought I could get away with it. I mean, this is probably, uh, I, I used to be in the graphic design arena and I used to be kind of like compared to those people. What I'm doing is not like, I'm doing the least amount of design possible. I'm very lazy. I like to find, somebody was saying yesterday to me, Um, your gift is like what you do with the least amount of effort. I'm always trying to find the path of least resistance, the, the least amount of work. I don't like to spend a lot of time on anything. I like to remove steps. I like to remove time to do things so that I can just focus on like the 1 to 3 things that I'm really, um, that come naturally, which is listening to my thoughts and then finding these, these words, writing them down, and then laying them out basically. And that's, that's all I want to do. And picking the colors. I mean, there's a palette that exists that I haven't really deviated from for like a year. Um, but yeah, I'm really happy with this style. This is what I think I was always supposed to be doing. It just took me a couple few years to arrive at this. And until I figure out a better formula, I'm sticking with this.

So.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So let's talk about the consistency that has been required to get to this point. Cause you mentioned it didn't start here. There's been many iterations until you found kind of your flow, your color palette, your structure. You're loving it right now, but it also might evolve in the future. But nonetheless, there has been this level of consistency to get you to this point. And I think, I think it was in Chelsea Reif's episode because, you know, Chelsea, she helped us set this up. So Chelsea, I know she's the best. So I was listening to her conversation with you and I think it was there where she was talking about the interaction, or you guys were talking about the interaction that you had had briefly with Emma Chamberlain at one point. And by just like seeing her for like 10 seconds, you like got this like, like shot of inspiration to like be super fucking consistent and like show up online more. But what has, what has been your journey? And you mentioned like you decided, I'm going to do a poster every day, and you were really committed to that. Is that part of your natural personality? Because yes, you're lazy and you like to do things with ease and find the path of least resistance. But what is your relationship with being consistent, Ben, building this brand?

Right. So, uh, yes, I'm lazy. Yes, I want to find the quickest, easiest, most natural way of doing XYZ thing that I'm doing. But that is countered, it's opposite that allows that to exist is I'm horrifyingly obsessive, and you cannot derail me. Like, there's so many times, the countless times where I should have stopped this, I should have given up. And there's lots of projects I've started and, and they fizzle out, or I don't keep going. But the core thing of PJ, that core train, has been running non-stop for 5 years. And I mean, a lot of people have done things for 5 years, but There's also a lot of people that have, and I'm not saying 5 years is like the most amazing thing in the world, but there's no sign of it stopping, but I'm extremely persistent with everything and consistency, persistency. It's not, there's the laziness allows me to be obsessive and persistent. If I was like, if, if I had to spend hours on everything and everything needed to be kind of new and different and everything needed to be special. Then of course you're going to burn out and give up. The laziness allows me to keep going. That's like my advice is I think people overdo. Like, if you want to be able to keep doing something, you need to find a rhythm. You need to find a pattern. You need to kind of make like a little machine that allows you to keep doing this. What's your bare minimum? Find your bare minimum. That's how you can keep doing things for years. And then, yeah, you tweak it as you go, as you learn. Um, but consistency is not about perfection or doing the most. It's, it's about doing as little as possible to get away with, and then you keep raising that bar and then that's how you sustain it. I wanna sustain this for as long as I can.

Yeah. No, that's such a good point. And it like, it lands for me in regards to launching programs, offers, digital education things, because that's kind of the basis of my business. But I will have a lot of people say, oh, I get so burnt out from launches. How do you keep launching all the time? I'll do 10, 12 launches in a year. Like, I just keep going. But the only reason that I'm able to is because I built a system for that, and I have like a way to rinse and repeat. I find what works. I'm not reinventing everything every fucking time, obviously, or else I would, I would be burnt out. I would be dying, you know. And so having a structure and a system, and like you said, finding that rhythm and that flow Uh, is the thing that allows you to not stop. Same with the podcast. Like, we've been doing this podcast every single week for over 5 years. I think 5 years is a long time to stay—

amazing.

That's a very long time, right? I mean, you get it. You've been doing something for 5 years. So when you're like, that's not the longest time, I'm like, sure, it's not the longest time, but also, to your point, like, a lot of people haven't done something every single day or every single week for 5 years, right? I think the I think that there's like a stat around podcasts of like if you make it to 21 episodes, you're already in like the top 5% or 1% or something.

Probably like 1%.

Yeah, because most people quit after like 3 episodes. So yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting. But of course there's other things that I haven't been as consistent with. And I think to me it's just about what is worth my time and energy and what's the real like driving force behind your mission, your business, your brand. Because I've started and stopped TikTok multiple times. Um, you were like, you were being like so consistent on YouTube, and then I went to go watch your videos and I'm like, did this motherfucker delete all these videos?

Yes, yes.

What happened to the YouTube?

So I got a life. No, I'm just kidding. So that was like, that was, that was really fun, uh, making a video every day. It didn't, um, turn into what I wanted it to be. Uh, I, I do like those videos. I go back and look at them sometimes, and I do, I am entertained by them. But I want to come back to YouTube, and I'm actually talking to Chelsea tomorrow, and I will— I want to like have her tell me what to do. I want to come back in a way that's sustainable. Daily was not sustainable for me, and I want to figure out my formula and pattern so that I know what to do when I, when I start up again. I'd love to do a weekly. I'd love to do something a little longer. I'd love for it to also function as a podcast and then also be cut up as clips. Like, I wanna milk, like, if I show up on camera, if I sit down once a week for an hour, I wanna turn that into like 50 pieces of content if I can. Um, but I've just been kind of sitting on that egg and gestating it that, but I was, I did that every day for probably 8 months and then I stopped early January.

Hey, don't forget that every month we are picking a Listener of the Month to win $50 in cash just for showing love to the show. All you have to do is leave an epic review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, screenshot the review before you hit submit, and DM that screenshot to us on Instagram @makeshifthappenpodcast. And that's it. I want to thank you for being such a loyal listener and show my appreciation by putting a little extra cash in your pocket. It. I know it's super easy not to do it, but every single rating and review seriously helps the show rank higher and reach new people, so we appreciate them more than you know. We'll announce the next winner at the end of the month and slide into your DMs if it's you, so keep an eye out and good luck. Love you guys and thanks for supporting Makeshift Happen. Was there a certain moment that made you stop and it was a conscious choice, or it was something where like life just was lifing and you stopped for a few days and then it like ended?

Well, there was, um, you could— if you were, if you were one of the diehard like 10 viewers, like you could tell like by the last like 30 videos that I was like over it, like completely over it. And I don't know, I, I always feel like I'm like going through something It's so dramatic. When I, when I look back, I'm not. I, I'm just, it's just normal life, but I, I'm a dramatic person and I, I like it that way. I have to be dramatic in order to do what I do, but I was being really dramatic at the time and my life really was changing and my, my life has changed so much this year. Uh, but at that time I was like, I, I just felt like I needed to get, this is going to sound crazy. I feel like I needed to get help. And so I got a life coach, like, for those 12 weeks. Like, like, I stopped early January, and then I had this— I did this, like, program for 12 weeks with this amazing guy, uh, Taylor Morgan. And it was every day I had to wake up at, like, 6 AM and take a cold shower and do all these things. And, uh, it was really good. It was a really good program. But I— videos were not part of that, like, and I didn't want to document that. I wanted to be like quiet and private again. Because the problem with the videos too is I have all of these boundaries around my personal life, so like strong boundaries that do not come out in the public. And I would be doing these one-take 10-minute videos, and I would walk up to a boundary and be like, ah, and like freeze. But I'd have to like keep myself going, and that was very challenging. So, but that's all I want to talk about. All I want to talk about is my personal life, but I can't. So like, I need to figure out what it is I meant to talk about.

Do you think you ever will though? Do you think you ever will though? Because like you can't, because a version of you once decided that you wouldn't. But like, what if that changes?

Well, am I gonna be talking about XYZ people in my life and then they see it? No, like that's crazy. That's crazy.

Sometimes I share things about my fiancé and then he hears it on the podcast.

Well, well, I'm sure it's flattering. I'm sure it's nothing too— like, I have nothing, I have nothing bad to say. It's more about I don't like using personal identifying circumstances. Um, I don't know why. Maybe that's a rule that can change, but I've kind of stuck to that. So I don't know, maybe, maybe I can. I mean, I've gotten quite good with the— the posters are a much different format. I mean, there's— it's, it's 5 to 25 words. It's not a talking head. I can easily strip out anything that's personal or identifying or specific when it comes to, to talking.

It gets harder with video and talking. Yeah, because naturally, like, like you said, it just kind of wants to come out because it's your truth, it's your life. And so then you start saying something and then you realize, oh, this is a boundary that I'd set. I shouldn't say this. And then you have to pivot or it's boring or it's, it's repetitive.

I mean, I really don't care about repeating myself.— that's, I think, another thing people get wrong is they think they can't repeat themselves. If people laughed the first time, they're going to laugh the 10th time at that joke. So you can, you can repeat yourself. And also, they didn't pay attention the first 5 times. You can show somebody something 5 times, they'll, they'll see it the 6th, and they'll say, oh, I think I've seen that before. It's fine. Like, you can repeat yourself. I've learned that too the past year or so.

That helps with the consistency too, like repurposing, repeating. Like that's another way to help you be consistent.

If it's good, it's good. Like you can keep showing it off. You can keep talking about it.

It's fine. Yeah. So good. Okay. I want to ask you about how tragically painful it must be to be such a trendsetter.

Because— where are you going with this?

Because when you, when you are doing something that is unique and different and fabulous, people are going to want to copy you, right? Sure. Experience this all the time in the online space. A lot of creators experience this. So I want to ask you about the Urban Outfitters thing, not like in-depth, but, but more so just about your perspective of like your mindset when it comes to people copying, because I'm sure it's not the only situation. But for anyone who doesn't know, Urban Outfitters copied one of PJ's designs for a hoodie. It was, it was a really good quote. I must admit it said, sorry, I'm late. I didn't wanna come.

Right. So, okay. There's a lot to talk about there. So the Urban Outfitters thing is an interesting example. First of all, I didn't invent that quote. Um, and I actually haven't really used it. I've used, I've made fun of that quote by saying, sorry, I think I did like, sorry, I'm cum, I didn't want to late, something stupid. Um, But the reason it was sort of a copy was it just kind of copied the way I lay text out and it copied the way I treat text. And it was a pretty similar—

you initially, you initially were like, oh, it's not a big deal. And then, yeah, everyone who loves you was like, bro, they copy.

I know. Yeah. And there's, there's two kinds of copying. There's the, there's a, a corporation or brand, whatever, taking something and then putting it on their thing and selling it. And that's happened. And people— there was even some guy that took my smiley logo and was like putting it on his stuff. And I was like, oh, and he reached out to me. Oh, I said something. I was like, what the hell are you doing? And he's like, oh, do you want to work together? I was like, no. Like, no, I don't. You're deranged. Remove that now. And I don't know what he's up to now. But anyway, so the Urban Outfitters thing is a different thing. And I did kind purposely exploit that to, because they, they, I mean, it's, it's just words. It's just laying text out. It's not that, it's interesting that people were so able to identify it as me. Cause I was like, oh, I guess I really do have kind of like signature style. Good. That felt good. It's recognizable. I didn't actually feel threatened by that, but I did want to use it as an opportunity to model that, that mindset of everything's an opportunity. And I did want to turn it into something with them. Obviously it didn't. Uh, so that kind of copying, yeah, when a brand takes it, that's, that's annoying and no fun. I thought you were going to talk about if other people are trying to copy, like other artists are trying to copy my work and trying to like be inspired by it. I, I have noticed, um, people try to do that. And they can't get it right, which is very funny to me because I was also pointing out to somebody yesterday, I don't change— this is where I'm getting too much into the weeds— on the pieces, the font is always the same size throughout. Like some pieces, the font is really big, some pieces the font is small, but the font is the same size throughout. And so it's actually, if a line is— a line of text is a little bit shorter than the one above, it doesn't pass. It doesn't work. Like, I have to maneuver the words and change the wording and change the structure, whatever, until it, it fits. I can't, I can't manipulate the font size. I can't do— I have a lot of rules that are constrained on this. Therefore, I can make a bunch of them. Anyway, people have yet to figure out how to do that. They have yet to figure out that it's super important that the margin all the way around is the same. To me, that's very basic. They've yet to figure out how to, like, assemble the words in a way where the, the structure feel like the composition feels like balanced and sturdy. So, and then also we've been playing like a friend of mine, we've been playing with like AI and trying to see if AI can like sound like me and make stuff like me. And maybe eventually I'll be able to train an AI to do all this for me. I don't know, whatever. We'll see. It can't do it, at least not yet. So I do feel kind of safe. Like even if somebody can figure out my style and they can be like, oh, The structure he built is he has this color palette and these kind of font colors and this font and this texture and this sort of layout, da da da. It's, it's, I feel like my voice is still safe. And that's a, that's, that's kind of cool. Like, because I don't imagine that what I'm saying is all that. I'm not trying to sound different or smart. Or profound. I'm trying to say it as simply as possible so that if it was on my wall, I can read it in a second and get the feeling. I'm not trying to be challenging. I'm not trying to be— I'm not even trying to be unique. So I'm, I'm, yeah, I don't know if people can really copy me yet.

There's like that Steve Jobs quote that's about how like simple is more challenging than complex. And like you think about the design of the iPhone when it first came out and it's like, there's nothing on it. There's not, there's was— well, I guess the first one had one button, but it was like so simple that there's nothing, but it's so much more complex because of that. And I think that's kind of like how your designs are in a way.

So it's so funny you bring that up. I forgot about this. As a sensitive little boy— and I still am a sensitive little boy— I had a framed picture from a magazine of Steve Jobs in his like empty, beautiful empty apartment with like a fridge in the background or whatever. And it said something that you were saying, simple is— can be harder than complex, blah, blah, blah. We'll have to look up the full quote, but that like totally imprinted on me. And he's, you know, one of my heroes. And in many ways, like, Apple is one of my favorite like art projects ever because they've built this machine that somehow makes something that billions of people want. And we can talk about like you know, the business of everything. And that's very interesting, but, and maybe some people have opinions about Apple. I think it's so amazing when people can make something that people want. I don't think there— sometimes there's this, this flavor of, of attitude or person in the art world that if you cater to an audience or cater to a group of people, you cater to a customer, then it's no longer art.

Right.

Then if it's no longer art, I don't really give a shit what you think it is. If it's not art, I don't care. Um, I am so happy to make something that I love and therefore other people will love. That's, that's another learning and another piece of advice. If there's anybody, you know, that is starting something, you have no idea what people want. And, and Steve Jobs even said that, like, you have no idea what people want. People have no idea what they want.

Yeah. I think he's, he's famous for kind of saying that they don't know what they want. Yeah. And he was like very, set in that.

You know, the hard work and the thing that's the most gratifying thing in the world and the only thing that can keep me going, and I've deviated from this and learned that mistake, you have the hard work is, and the joy is making something that you love, you would buy, you would wear, you would stick on your laptop, etc. That's the, the dopamine that keeps me going, keeps anybody else going. And if it passes your test, if you like it, it, it's extremely likely that other people will too.

Well, and not only other people will like it, it's the right other people will like it, because that's the—

oh, interesting—

yeah, filtration system that you're kind of building. Like, when you try to— if, if you were trying to fit the mold of what you think everyone else wants you to be, then you would attract people who like the posturing version of you, not the real version of you. So I think it's another way to make sure that the people that do like it are your kinds of people, right? And that it attracts the right and repels the wrong.

I love that you said that, because when, when I started getting more attention, maybe a year or two in, and I got— have you ever heard of like the sophomore album? Rick Rubin talks about this. Like somebody, some artist comes on the scene, they do really well with their debut, and then their sophomore album either never comes out or doesn't work because now they have all this stage fright and they're trying to repeat their success and da da da da da. And, or they're trying to figure out what the world wants from them. And then they try to do that and it doesn't work. I, I, I tried doing that and it was literally swimming up a river every day and so painful, so unnatural. I didn't like any of it. That must've been like 2 or 3 years ago, probably 3 years ago. And maybe I spent like, probably spent like a whole year confused in that state. And like I was saying earlier, because I'm obsessive and persistent and I don't give up, I just didn't give up. Like any sane person would have totally stopped and been like, this just isn't working. The universe keeps sending me signs that what I'm doing is bad and nobody likes it and I should give up. Some miracle I didn't. So yeah, you just, I was able, I don't exactly remember how, but I was able to return to myself and return to my voice and and that's sort of like a leap of faith because you're like, well, I don't know if this is going to work, but it's, it's what I have. And luckily I did that and I kind of stuck with it and I keep developing it and it— I think it keeps getting stronger. So I'm happy with that.

So I'm a big Swiftie, but I think that in terms of artists, for me, like Taylor Swift is someone who exemplifies what you're talking about in a really amazing way. She never creates for what people want from her. Or what she thinks, you know, the fans want or need, or what's going to do well, or what's going to be the next biggest album or win her the most awards. Like, she has gone through all sorts of different genres, and she writes because she needs to write. She writes for her expression and catharsis. And however that comes out, because it's so raw, because it's so true, because it's so real and alive for her— it's real and alive for the audience of people that are there for her music, no matter what it is, no matter if it's, you know, like a folkloric type genre or it's pop or it's country, like it doesn't matter. And so I think that's really important because as a creator, like a lot of people, there's advice a lot of people will say, like, ask your audience what they want, make sure you're creating what they want.

And they can't tell you anything.

Yeah. And when it comes to like creating actual like products or like solving problems. Yes, market research is a real thing. Make sure it's a real problem that exists.

And market feedback— this sells, this doesn't, blah, blah, blah.

That's 100%. But from like the creative perspective of personal branding or art in general, it's like that— it's only art because it's coming from your, your authentic expression. Like you can't source that from like what other people are telling you that you should do.

No, that, that's an interesting point about the Taylor Swift thing. That's also the only reason she's been able to generate as much work as she has. Like, she's very prolific, um, and there, there is like an attitude, and I, I've had this attitude before when I was younger, that if it's super popular, it's not legitimate. Like, it's, it's, it's lowbrow and it's dumb. And the mass likes it, so therefore it isn't good. The only thing that— the only things that are good are the things that kind of don't make any sense, are weird, and a very small group of people like them, and the rest of the world doesn't understand them. And I still think that's important and that will always be there. But I, I, my attitude now that I've lived it is like, when something is popular, it's, it's— that's the sign that you've connected to another person. And when that happens at mass, that means it's something is totally resonant and true about this piece or whatever it is you're doing. So that is a very important signal and you shouldn't— I think anybody that's putting that down, that's coming from like a vibration of envy and jealousy, obviously. But that's if, if something's mega popular, that's not because they did market research. It's because it's actually resonating.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I love that because when, like, with people like her and anyone else who's kind of like a major, you know, popular figure, people, it's like, oh, it's overdone, like it's too popular, so it means it's uncool. But what you're saying is like when something resonates with the masses, there's a reason and there's a genius in that and there's something beautiful inside that, which is why it's working. And sometimes that perspective of like, oh, it's not cool, is is actually the shadow side of inspiration, which is jealousy.

So, hello.

Totally. Yeah. Okay. So when you start to throw in this element of making money from the art, from the authentic expression of like, okay, this is my diary, this is just who I am. How does that influence the creation? Because we've talked about a lot of other outside things that could potentially influence the, you know, the pureness of the creation. And I think making money from your passions is definitely One of them, you've said before, if I try to make things for money, it kills the creativity. If I make things just to make them, they make money. Like the irony of that, of the not— and you talked about the law of attachment. So I mean, that's non-attachment in and of itself, but I'm curious your experience and just kind of like mindset overall of like making money as an artist.

Well, I've gone through every iteration, maybe not every, but a lot of different ways of trying to market and sell. My work and, and obviously it's been on cases and socks and phones and stickers and posters and prints and blah, blah, blah. Uh, I've gone through every iteration and I'm at a place right now that I've kind of been stable with for about a year that I really like. Everything that I publish, uh, things go away, but everything that I'm publishing is available for sale immediately. I don't make that super obvious. Um, but it is, everything's available whether you buy it or not. I don't care. There's, there's a core group of pieces that just are evergreen and, and keep selling and kind of run the business. And I'm consistently surprised by what people buy still. And I'm like, I can't believe somebody has a giant framed piece of that thing. Like somebody has, like when I see somebody buy, um, When something like, when life gets hard, I throw leftovers at passing cars or something. I, I'm forgetting it, but it's something like, I'm like, why does somebody have that? That's crazy. Because I'm not always considering like them as prints. They're always made available after the fact. But when I'm creating, when I'm thinking about what do I want to put in my journal, AKA Instagram, you're not necessarily imagining it on someone's wall. No, I'm imagining like what happens when I flip through my journal right now, and how does it feel to assemble these, and am I capturing this feeling, am I assembling this feeling correctly? And I go, yeah, this is totally supporting that. And but then everything's available, and then I expose it to the marketplace. And I think the marketplace is a beautiful algorithm. I love algorithms. A lot of people talk shit on algorithms and fight social media and stuff like that. I'm like, that's the wrong attitude, honey. But we can talk about that too, uh, Yeah, I just, I say it's, it's here for you to look at and buy if you want it and whatever you want to buy, go for it. And that's kind of like my attitude and I want everybody to know it exists. Uh, I'm, I'm, I have no problem promoting myself and I have no problem saying this is what I have for sale and this is the price and blah, blah, blah. And it's great. Um, does that answer your question?

Yeah, just, I, I wondered if there was ever a time where uh, the money side of making, like, charging for your art impacted you in any way, just because I had heard you talk about like when you try to make something for money it kills the creativity. So it's, it's kind of just holding that non-attachment when you're in the creation process so that you're not thinking of like, oh, what's the next thing that I can say that's going to get someone to want to buy this because it's going to be a major wall quote. So you did kind of answer in that sense where it's like you're not imagining it on someone's because you don't give a shit if they buy it or not, which is why the creativity can be fluid and pure. And then after the fact, it's like, okay, if you want to buy it, go for it, no issues.

Yeah, I have, I have the answer then, and we already kind of arrived at it. But when I was— when I first started out, it was this— nobody was looking, I was just doing it for me. And I'd never been a popular famous artist, if you could call it that. And so I didn't, I didn't know what I was missing out on. It was just fun for me to make a poster every day. It's fun for me to go in Illustrator. It's fun for me to go in Photoshop. It's playing on the computer. That's what I'm like when people are asking, what do you do all day? I'm like, I play on the computer. That's basically it. Um, and I walk around and I talk to myself. Like, how crazy is it that that's like what I get to do? Anyway, that's, that's, that's what the dopamine came from in the beginning. It was gratifying for me. And then I got a little popular and then I was able to start selling things and I said, this is the point now. The point is to be popular and the point is to sell things. So let's try to reverse engineer I'm obsessive and I'm like, let's try to perfect this and figure it out. And there was just this, this vibration of like clinging and grabbing on and rigidity and force. And exactly. And it just— and that was palpable in the work. And it just— and it worked, but it was painful and unsustainable and not gratifying. Because then I arrived at the kind of the full circle of like the hero's journey. I came back home and I made things that I loved and really worked on me and felt really good. It's the feeling. We do everything because of the way it makes us feel. And I get all of my dopamine from saying, I love this so much. And that's how, like, a post, if it doesn't do well, which, like, what the hell does that even mean? If it doesn't do well, it doesn't affect me in the way that it used to because I'm like, I, I love this set of things. I'm extremely proud. Of this set or whatever, or if it doesn't sell, I don't even, I don't even, I hardly keep track of what sells. Like, that's, that's like, I mean, it's my business, but it's really not my business what, like, specific things sell. I'm, I'm consistently surprised by what people pick, and I love that, and that's why I like having everything available. But I'm like, oh, okay, interesting. Um, but my primary, the dopamine, the thing that keeps me going, and the thing that I'm doing all this for is because it makes me feel good, period, end of story.

Yeah, I love that so much. It reminds me of, um, like, I, I'm a type of person as well where like I don't really care if something flops, if something doesn't get as many views, or I used to— not a lot of engagement. I'm like, eh, whatever. But like some— and sometimes you can kind of know when that's going to happen, and other times you're like, wait, I really thought like people were gonna love that thing, and it like doesn't get as much of the responses as you wanted. But still I love it. So it's like, it's okay. I loved creating it. Like, it makes me think of this one video I did recently, which was like so silly and just funny. It's like slow-mo of me like dancing around with like money falling all over me and like twerking and whatever. And I'm like answering the phone and I drop it in slow motion, like screaming. And it— the text on the screen is like, when the accountant calls to tell you that your profit margins are officially as fat as your ass. Ass. Like, I thought that was so funny.

That is funny.

I love that. I thought that was so funny. I thought it would— I thought it would get a little bit more traction, but I, I kept sharing, resharing it to my stories because I was like, you guys haven't seen this because it's so good, it's so funny. Whatever.

I love that.

I have one of your favorite things that you've ever posted here, and I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read it to you. Speaking of like entrepreneur life, because I just I obviously resonated with this and found it hilarious, so I think we need a little bit of the backstory or the inspiration. So I'm going to read it to you, see what comes up, see if you remember or you recall, um, what phase— what, what traumatized phase you were in in your life at the time.

Okay, here we go.

I'm thrilled to announce that I've unlocked an entirely new level of exhaustion. And oh yeah, it's powered by the sin of my own ambition and my readiness to avoid all the people that suddenly need something from me. I previously agreed to work on help do something with you, and likely enthusiastically. Excellent, let us continue with our agreement, but I am temporarily experiencing total and catastrophic brain failure. Please wait 1 to 45 business days for me to maybe read your text.

Love that. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, that was the theme of Q1, Q2, um, and that's always lurking in the background. But this has been a very, very busy, fun, amazing year and lots of projects, and love that. And I expressed that in there, like, let's continue. Like, I, I said I want to do this, let's continue. But like, can everybody just like— can I swear on here or no? Yeah, I know. Can everybody shut the fuck up and leave me alone? Like, can you stop emailing me? I don't care, I don't care, leave me alone, leave me alone. Like, I'm gonna block you. So that's like, that's the other funny thing is I am, I'm totally a neurotic, sensitive, unreliable artist, and I'm also a totally, um, pathological, intense, obsessive entrepreneur capitalist. And like, I, I love both of those things. There's, people try to pick like one side, which I think is so lame. Like, there's the art people that, uh, I kind of have this learned helplessness around making money and like this attitude about like, I don't know how to do it or I don't want to do it. Or, or if it's, if you're ever trying to be commercial, it's like bad or something, which I'm like, yeah, it's like you're talking about you're not an artist anymore.

Yeah.

And, and, and I went through that phase, not totally, but this like kind of where I was, um, I was being too picky about everything and it like stopped me from releasing stuff. It was like kind of a self-sabotage, like a perfectionism Anyway, and then there's like the, the commercial side and the very entrepreneurial side, which love that when we need entre— more entrepreneurs and we're going to see, I totally think we're gonna have like a renaissance of people being entrepreneurs just because of all the tools now. Anyway, that's a different story. Um, those people have such a, a, a disconnect from that thing we were talking about earlier, which is making something for yourself that brings you joy and gratification and serves its function for you and works for you. They kind of skip that step and they just go straight to trying to figure out what other people want. And then they don't— I don't know if you can be that successful doing that. Maybe some people are, I don't know. Um, so I, I, I don't know where I'm going with this, but yeah, I have that blend and that constant like tension and that's like what keeps kind of the whole thing propped up and going and like that, it's not really a war, but it's like like an angel, and I don't want to call it devil, but there's these two sides like on each shoulder, and like they're always talking back and forth basically.

Yeah, so this is— I guess in like my spaces, people would call this like the masculine and the feminine energy, because the extreme side of the masculine is that like rigidity, structure, force, push, whatever. And then the extreme side of the feminine is like the total, like, you know, lean back, go with the flow, so much so that like life kind of becomes chaos and nothing is working and you're not really making money, and like It's, it's, it's too soft to the point where you're unstable because there's not enough structure. And so bringing the yin and the yang of those two sides of yourself together, I think, is a formula for success in a lot of ways. And it's what you're expressing now is that you, you've recognized you have those two sides of yourself and you see the challenges that other people face when they are so one-sided in that when they've swung, you know, they've let the pendulum swing all the way over to one side of that. It presents these challenges. And it's not to say that like anyone's ever perfect at it, but like being able to dip between those two sides of ourselves I think is part of the formula to being successful, because it allows you to be in your creative energy and in your flow and like working for yourself and creating from you, but also understanding like the business aspects of things and the— like we said, the structure and the formula so that you can be consistent and stay on top of things. Like, we need those two sides.

I'm so glad you brought up the masculine-feminine thing because first of all, everybody thinks I'm a girl, and that's so like— I love that. And people are like, when I give little snippets where it's like clear I'm not, like, like on my story or whatever, and people go like, wait, what? I thought you were like, like some boss bitch living in New York. And I'm like, I'm like a little like beach boy living in Laguna. Like, I'm the opposite of that, and I, I'm like a homebody, and I just like to walk around and stuff like that. But I— and I'm like, that means I have girl brain. And I have like so successfully— maybe not so successfully, but I have been given the opportunity just by the way I was born or whatever to— I was like released from being a masculine man. And if I was like born like a straight girl, I've been released from being like a very feminine girl. Like I get to be both and play with masculinity and femininity all the time because there is no like set path for me. And so I've been able to integrate both of those things and I don't have to pick. It's so amazing. So like I'm constantly oscillating between— I'd say my work is pretty feminine and I love that. But because then I have this, this, this other masculine side that wants to dominate and achieve and acquire and in, in the most like spiritual sense, I want to penetrate, like I want to penetrate people's phones. I want to, like, it sounds so vulgar, but that's really what it is. It's like an out force. Like I want to spread my message across as many things as I can. And that's, I think that's a very masculine thing, but then the artistic side is so feminine and so receptive and like, it's, it's like this watching of my thoughts and then I collect them. I'm like, I'm like a, a gatherer of berries and then I sift through them and I play with the colors and it's like very, and it's this very, um, yeah, the mindset I think is I'm, I'm able to tap into this very sensitive but also bitchy kind of like feminine posture that I just, I derive so much strength from that. Like like feeling like this very, um, vulnerable yet, uh, powerful's too bland of a word. Vulnerable yet, um, like, I— it's like the power to destroy, like that kind of femininity. So like mixing both of those at the same time feels just so, so amazing to me.

It's like Mother Nature. It's definitely a, a definitely feminine, but definitely a force, like a force to be reckoned with kind of energy, for sure. Yeah, it's so interesting. I think you do that really well, the kind of integration of those two sides, which is why you've, you know, been able to see a lot of success. And so for me, I, I really do think— I do believe that that is part of the formula for success, is like being a person who can integrate those two sides of yourself, for sure, because they're both needed for, for different aspects of not just like life, but, but business for sure as well. So So I'm curious about your routines and like you have in one of your posts, you said, this is all a simulation where you win by having fun and going to bed on time. And I'm like, facts. I need to go to bed on time. Nothing has ever felt truer. Yet I was still up scrolling until like 1:00 AM the other night. So until, until I scrolled past and I came across a video of literally a guy being like— the first thing that he says, the hook of the video, is, 'Put the phone down, you're done, bitch.' Yeah. And I was like, 'And that is God.' Yeah, that was God coming down just to tell me to knock it off. Totally. So are you like a rigid routines person, or are you going with the flow? Morning routine, non-negotiables, what's that?

I've gone through everything. And like, when I was doing— like, I was talking about earlier that life coach thing— it's because I really wanted a routine, and then I got it, and I said, this is cool. But it's also like, like, I just released a piece a couple weeks ago maybe that said, like, routine is lovely, but so is living your life. And if you become too— like, the routine is not the point. The routine supports your ability to be at a high vibration. That's, that's what I think routine should be about. It should like, let's figure out how to get you fed really well. Let's figure out how to get your body moving really well. Let's figure out how to get your space like organized and clean in a way that's sustainable and easy for you. Like, let's figure out how to take care of your, your skin and your hair and all of that stuff in a way that's easy and sustainable for you so you can feel really cute and smell good and blah, blah, blah. That's, it's, that's not the point though. That's not your life. That's the admin and you can make that stuff really, um, like you can make that stuff a lot of work and you can also make that stuff not a lot of work, but just like I was saying in the beginning, like find your bare minimum and then keep trying to raise that bare minimum. So like your default is like generally better over time. Uh, no, I don't have a routine. I have a, I have, I wouldn't say I have a spontaneous life, but I really do go with the flow and I'm kind of a little all over the place, but that's what I like. I need, I need material. I need, I don't know that I need, yeah, I need variety. And I don't know that I need, I was going to say drama. I don't know that I need drama. That word kind of freaks me out because drama kind of has a negative connotation. But I want, um, I do, I do love drama, just between you and me. I need, I need the contrast and the good kind of chaos. Um, but there are things that I always need to return to, and that if I'm not doing those things like, I totally feel like shit and my work isn't good. Like, I need to be allowed to go walk around for 2 hours uninterrupted with no destination in mind and not even a goal of coming up with an idea. Like, if I have— like, I need to come up with something, it's unlikely that I will. But if I'm just like, okay, I'm just gonna go wander around and let my mind run and think about some things and process some things that are going on. And whatever, something, many, many fun things will come out of that. So it's this weird thing and it's reflected in my work too. Like there's so much structure on my style and the way I make my work, which allows for all this variety in it. Um, but if I was constantly changing the structure, then I would have nothing left for the actual point, which is the words, the message. And that's kind of how I feel about routine too. Like, yeah, you can, like, you can miss your life if you're too obsessed with going to bed on time. You can miss your life if you're too obsessed with taking care of yourself in this way. Like, it's very important to do those things. I definitely love going to the gym. I love taking care of myself, whatever. But you gotta relax. Like, we're, we're gonna die. And yeah, our souls will, will continue, but like this body, it's gonna go away. And it's like, just, just relax.

Just— yes. Yeah, I'm very much— I'm a very big like YOLO person. I feel like my whole life is kind of an expression of like, do it for the story, do it for the plot, um, sort of vibes. Like when I was 21, I decided to decline my corporate job offers and like move to Spain for a guy that I met on a dating app. So he's my fiancé.

I saw that post. I saw that post. I like that.

Yeah, we've been together for 10 years.

So just congratulations.

Thank you. Things like that where you're like, yeah, thank God I like was willing to just like be in the moment and live life for what it is and know that this is all like a story that we're writing and someday we'll be able to tell. And that's all we really get to die with. But it's kind of ties back to exactly what we were talking about with the art earlier, where it's like having some sort of structure is what allows you to flow within that. It's what allows you to be free. And so having like the basic things that like make you feel good and make you feel okay is what allows you to be that, that free-flowing version of yourself. And I also think like the magic of your artwork is really like how silly and stupid and unserious it is. And so it's only natural that then your, you know, your— the way that you approach daily routines would be a reflection of like, can I leave space for me to be silly and stupid and unserious?

And like, oh, you're figuring this out for me. Yeah, that's totally it.

It's all connected. I love the walks too, because I call these non-stimulation walks and I tell my clients to do them all the time. So it's like no music, no phone, no podcasts, no audiobooks, like no nothing. It's just like you and silence.

And basically that's hard to do. That's hard to do for people.

Yeah, it is really hard. It is really hard. It's even hard, like I recommend it and it's hard for me because you, you want to be comforted, you want to be accompanied, you want to have it, have a little thing to listen to like while you're on. I don't know, it's nice. It feels comforting. But plugging our ears all the time, I do think, is one of the things that blocks that, like, that blocks our channel, blocks our creative flow. So hearing you talk about those 2-hour, like, wandering sessions, like, yeah, you're probably going to get good ideas from them so long as you don't go on those walks thinking, I better get an idea from this.

Yeah, because then you're like staring intently at your mind and it's like, okay, leave me alone, you weirdo. Like, that's its response. It's like, okay.

Thanks. It's like, why are you looking at me like that?

Yeah, you have to be like receptive and chill and like detached and—

yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I want to finish by playing a little game of smash or pass. Are you down?

Oh, okay. Yes, let's do it.

Okay, so this is going to be our like chronically online edition. So I'm just gonna share things and you're gonna just tell me if you would smash or pass them. Okay, the first one is Love Island USA.

Oh, can I give like more than— yeah, a word? Yeah, I think it's totally insane and that like, like people can't even go on that show. And I'm— and I've, I've watched some of it and I think it's good entertainment. I wouldn't— I don't know that I'm totally the consumer or the viewer of it, but I wouldn't say pass. I think it's like an interesting cultural phenomenon that puts on display, like, very anthropologically, like, kind of the beauty and psychosis of dating. Like, so I think that's interesting. I think, like, as an art form and, like, the way they do the architecture on the show where, like, you can never achieve privacy— like, that's, that's cool. That's cool.

It's a—

it's a— I'm not its customer, but I, I have admiration for it.

Yeah, it's a crazy experiment when you think about it. Truly, there's zero privacy, and they, like— there's no clocks. Did you know that? They don't allow them to ever know what day or time it is.

That's crazy.

I know. And then they keep them up really late and they only sleep like 3 or 4 hours and they're there for like 6 weeks.

It's like, yeah, a crazy experiment. That's pretty cool.

That's cool. Okay, okay. Uh, would you say like saying something is your Roman Empire?

Uh, pass. It's boring to me. It's like, yeah, I don't know.

Okay, men, men who meditate and do Kundalini yoga.

Yeah, that's fine.

Smash. Smash. CrossFit and ice plunges.

Um, I mean, if, if like you're egging me on to be like something might be like cringe, like, so there's some sort of like, um, consensus that CrossFit is lame or something, and I've done CrossFit, and some people seem to have that attitude. And when I had a trainer, she would like really talked it down and she's like, it's really bad for you. And so I was like, okay, Um, I don't have a problem with it. I don't understand. And I've done ice plunges and I had to do cold showers, and I think they're really good. I think it is— it's bordering on self-harm, but it's, it's good for you. I think like the, the after feeling is really nice. So I would smash, definitely ice plunges. I would smash.

Okay, smash the ice plunges. Uh, matcha over coffee?

Oh my God. So I had matcha like for the first time a few weeks ago with with like one of my new friends, and she was like, yeah, for the first time a few weeks ago. Yeah. And, and I was like, okay, what are you guys talking about?

Like, like, did you hate it?

No, I didn't hate it, but I was like, this is what you guys are losing your minds over? Like, I'm a, I'm a coffee freak, a coffee snob, and I've been drinking like 6 to 8 cups of black coffee since I was like 16. Like, it's crazy. And like, yeah, it's like too much. You okay? No, but I love, I love like good black coffee, and that's really gratifying to me. So I'm like, if I— if you— if you knew how good coffee could be, why are you getting matcha? Like, and it was good, high-quality, expensive matcha, and she was like, you know, yeah, this is good stuff. And I was like, this doesn't taste like anything, like what are you talking about? So I'm gonna have to pass on matcha. I'm gonna say coffee, black coffee, good black coffee.

Oh, black coffee. Okay, see, I I used to love coffee, but then it made me shit my pants, so I had to quit it.

So yeah, that too. When people talk about that, I'm like, what are you talking about?

Like, yeah, yeah, anyway, it's quite violent when it happens to you. So, oh, okay, I love that for you though. That, yeah, that you're, um, loving the coffee. Is also 6 to 8 is crazy work.

That's crazy. Yeah, that's probably too much, but probably, probably.

Okay, what about justifying every purchase as a write-off?

—Oh yeah, that's always fun as like an artist because I'm like, oh yeah, this is, um, giving me ideas and therefore it's a business expense. But like my tax lady is like, no, no. Um, so I mean like when I get a— when the new phone comes out in like a month or whatever, that's obviously going to be a business expense. But yeah, you just have to be careful. You just have to be careful. Yeah, but I, I think we should be able to— anyone— yeah, I think you should be able to write off everything. Like, like, if it's in— if it's supporting your ability to exist and enjoy your life, hello, that's in the pursuit of income. Like, that's like the basic criteria is like, is this in the pursuit of income? And I'm like, yes, it's all in the pursuit of income, leave me alone.

Yeah, facts. Because like, my energy is my frequency, which is the thing that makes me money.

Hello. Uh-huh. Yeah, I'm an artist, I'm never not working, I'm always on the clock.

Like, yeah, so exactly, everything I do is content.

Hello? Yeah, so they need to update the laws on that.

Okay, um, what about Justin Bieber's new album?

Smash or pass? I don't want to go anywhere near that. There's something— there's something going on with that side of the universe, and like, yeah, I want nothing to do with that.

Sorry, pass. Oh my God, a stab to the heart. It's really good. I'm sorry. You might— you might low-key love it.

Here's the other thing, I have no time for male vocalists. I like exclusively listen to female vocalists. I have no time for men singing.

I don't know what it is. Okay, okay, no interest. What about, what about guys with no social media?

Love that, love that. Smash, smash, smash. That is so hot. That is so attractive. Like, yeah, yeah. And I don't have personal social media. I, I mean, I have other social media, like obviously this, and so I am whoring myself out online, but Yeah, not having social media presence is so mature, so masculine. So like, thank you for not being distracted by this.

Like, that's cool. It is cool. The more, the more online you become, the more attracted you are to people who are completely offline.

It's wild.

Absolutely. What about The 5 AM Club?

Oh yeah, I've, I've like aspired to join those people. And maybe if I had, if I had a much busier life, I think I would derive value from that, but like waking up at 5 AM to be like, what should I do today? Like, it just doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for me.

Okay, pass, pass.

Um, okay, what about like— I stay up, I stay up.

Are you, are you a millennial? Are you Gen Z?

I'm an elder Gen Z. I'm 27.

Okay, that's kind of what I thought. So would you be smashing some of the Gen Z terminology like slay and rizz and it's giving and Um, I think it's fun to use things ironically.

The rizz thing kind of grosses me out, uh, just like the sound and the word, and it's just stupid. But like, I think slay is fun ironically, and it's giving is fun ironically. Um, yeah, I think it's fine.

I smash that for sure. Sure, I'm a millennial, but I'll smash it all day long. Hell yeah. So good. All right, well, that was our Chronically Online edition of Smash or Pass. Thank you for playing, PJ. Thank you. This was so fun. Um, I'm gonna link all of your socials where people can come and stalk and see all the quotes and download all the things. I know that if they don't already follow you, they're gonna be obsessed with your work. This was so much fun. Do you have anything you wanna share with our audience? Anything you mentioned, new potential content coming, maybe video that's gonna be podcast. Where is that gonna be? Is that gonna be on YouTube?

Yeah, we'll see, we'll see. I'm gonna talk to Chelsea tomorrow and we're gonna—

he's like, don't hold me to anything.

Listen, yeah, do not, do not. I will change my mind if I tell you I'm gonna do XYZ. Yeah, whatever. So we'll see about that. Um, I would love to— I mean, that when I came out with— when we were workshopping what would like my online disguise be, and like we found these glasses where you can't really see in the side, and then obviously like kind of the hat and I'm kind of like a celebrity undercover. That's like the vibe I wanted to go for. Nothing too whatever. I, I'm, and I'm, I think, I think I'm good on camera and I love to talk. And so I think there's a place for me to show up, um, whether it's podcast or video on YouTube or TikTok or whatever. I, I aspire to that. I want to do that. I'm just still thinking about it. I'm still gestating it all in, all in the right timing. So we'll see about that. The thing I want to leave with you though, or leave you with anyway is the secret is so simple. You just keep going. This applies to everything in your life. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be stupid. It's gonna— you're gonna be receiving very clear messages and signals, you think, from the universe, from God, to give up. And that's how you're going to interpret it sometimes. You're going to say, yeah, this does not work. This has not been working. I have given 20 chances to this thing. It's not working. Please keep going because invariably after the hardest time of XYZ thing, because I'm insane and I didn't give up, an amazing turn of events, an amazing surprise, an amazing reward is literally just around the corner. You don't have to be good. You don't have to be perfect. You should try to be nice. Keep going. That's all you have to do. You just have to show up and be there. So many people are going to give up. So many people are going to fall away. So, so many people are going to stop with no explanation. That shouldn't be you. You need to keep going. That's it. That's all you need to know.

So good. Just keep going, you guys. I always say that, like, it's so easy to win these days, not because your path is going to be easy, but because everyone else will quit. There you go.

That's what I've learned. That's what I've learned.

Everyone else will quit, and so if you don't, then inevitably you will win. I love that. Thank you for that last final piece of wisdom. This was so, so good. Poster Journal, you're incredible. Thank you for coming on Makeshift Happen. If you guys enjoyed this episode, make sure you take a screenshot, share it to your Instagram stories, tag us. Obviously go follow PJ if you're not already. You're going to be obsessed with his quotes and everything that he posts. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Bye! If you loved this episode, make sure to check out the show notes where I've linked a few similar episodes I know you're also going to love. You'll find them under the similar episodes section in the description down below with direct links so you can dive in and start listening right away, or add them to your queue for later. Binge away for even more growth, expansion, abundance, and fire motivation.