LETTING THE F*%K GO: Becoming a Surrendered Woman in Your 30s w/ Angie Lee

What's up, you guys? Welcome back to the podcast. Before we dive into today's episode, I have something I need to tell you. I've been waiting to say these words for so long.

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It is the most wonderful time of the year, you guys. Happy shopping! And don't forget that all of the investments we make in ourselves before the end of the year get to count as a tax deduction, which is a major slay. I love that for us. The sale ends on Cyber Monday, which is December 2nd, which also just happens to be my birthday. Yay! If you've been wanting to join my world and work with me in closer proximity, this is going to be the absolute best, most affordable time to do so. Go ahead and click the link below in the episode description to start shopping the sale. I can't wait to get hotter, richer, healthier, and happier with you in the new year. Let's fucking go. In today's episode, we have Angie Lee joining us. She is back on the show and we are talking all about how to let the fuck go and become a surrendered woman in your 30s. This conversation is so, so needed by by so many women, I'm really excited to bring it to you guys. Angie is the ultimate hype girl who's obsessed with helping women have more fun and make money doing what they love. As a college and corporate dropout, Angie decided to screw the rules and forge her own path. With 15 million downloads now, Angie is an absolute podcasting powerhouse. She's also a fireball keynote speaker, a marketing maven who's generated 7 figures in digital courses. She's the co-founder of Soul, which is an 8-figure CBD and wellness brand, and she's a silly goose who's just gonna make you laugh and make your abs hurt. You guys have probably heard me talk about this before on the podcast and in my stories, but me and my entire family have been using Angie's CBD products for years now for everything from anxiety, sleep, joint pain, and so much more. It's helped so many people in my life, including me. Sol is really my quickest anxiety fix, and I'm so, so grateful for it. I personally love the peppermint CBD oil. That's like my go-to on the daily. I also like the raspberry gummies, the sleepy nighttime drink. And you can always use my code DAILY in all caps to save if you want to try out some of these products for yourself or gift it to a friend or a loved one this holiday season. But I have amazing news because Angie was kind enough to offer us a giveaway. So we're going to be giving away 10 lucky winners some free Sol products. All you have to do is make sure that you're following both Angie and I on Instagram and then comment your favorite part of this episode on my recent reel with Angie and I. That's kind of the trailer sneak preview of this episode. So go ahead to my Instagram, find the reel with Angie and I— that's the trailer for this episode— and just comment something that you love from this conversation, and you'll be automatically entered to win free Sol products. I think you guys are gonna love this conversation today. From hot takes on motherhood and biohacking to finding balance in life's extremes, we are spilling the tea on what it really means to become a surrendered woman in your 30s. We talk about the pendulum swing between hyper-masculine and hyper-feminine and how to find your flow, and just the honest reality reality of what that's looked like in our lives. This is not an advice episode, it's really like a girl's chat where we're peeling back the curtain and sharing the behind the scenes of what these things have looked like for us. We talk about the differences of life in your 20s versus your 30s, the glow-ups, the growing pains, the timing of the moves that you're making in your career and pregnancy, and the struggles and challenges and overthinking that happens with that. All about prioritizing your sleep, Angie's top tips to unlock next level rest. We talk about lessons that learned moving into our 30s, what happens when you feel like you've girl bossed all the way to the top and you've accomplished everything and you're still unfulfilled, and where you go from there. We get really real, so I hope you guys enjoy this episode. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you to expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shift happen.

I love that. Here's like I'm gonna look better than you. You're, you're coming through this fucking Squadcast.

I mean, if you want to set up a camera—

I don't, I never— I've never gotten that desire, but I probably should. If you want to match the level, it's gonna be you looking really good and me just like— it was also just the way that I had to put my arm out like this to hit record that it was like— I was like, what is she doing? I was like, oh, she set up her camera.

Well, welcome to the show, Ange.

Yay! I'm so excited to be here with your calm, soothing soul. Thank you.

Before we hit record, you guys, I'm already laughing, so hopefully this episode will make you laugh too. Obviously have no context yet for what's happening, but you, you will find out very soon. Welcome to the show, Angie Lee. You've been on the podcast before. We love you. Your energy is always such a joy. Angie was telling me that she was like, you're very calm. I'm like, really? That's not an adjective that I normally hear to describe me as like one of my main traits. But yeah, she was saying that she gets this really calm energy from me, and I think it's a compliment.

So, oh yeah, I want to be that. Like, when I was listening to your podcast, it's very— it's very songy, it's very calming and soothing. And I feel like mine's a little bit more like just like crazy, a little bit of energy. And that is who I am, but I'm noticing now in my 30s, which we'll chat about, I want to rewrite that story a little bit. Because is that really who I am? I don't know. Or is that just trauma from childhood and now I get to reinvent myself in my 30s? I'm very intrigued with women who are very calm because I've never been like that. I've always been super fast and high energy. And so that's probably why I notice it so much, because it's so much of not who I am, but I'm so intrigued by it and I want to learn how to be it because I think that you probably feel calmer than in your body.

You're like, tell me how it feels. It's like the reel or the meme, whatever, that's like, have you ever been in love? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want me to tell you what it's like?

What does it like— what is it like to be so calm?

Well, thank you. I, I really received that compliment. I think it's a result of being kind of just like a regulated, stable person. But I have always gotten like that comment in terms of like my voice, that my voice is really soothing, like it's comforting, it's relaxing.

Yes, you have a great voice for podcasting.

Thank you. Actually, I remember one time I sent you a voice note years ago before I even had a podcast, I think, and you were like, oh my God, you have a podcasting voice.

Yeah, you just have a very enjoyable voice. And when we are talking about medium that's audio, that's a big deal. I'm gonna be honest, there's some people I can't listen to just because the voice is not easy for me to digest. It doesn't mean the content's not good. Is that mean? No, it's just, it's just, it's the medium. It's just what it is. And so you're lucky in that you have good content and you have a voice that's easy to consume.

So it's a bonus point for sure. I'm not gonna lie. Anyways, today, you guys, I brought Angie on because she's the best person to have this conversation with. And I really wanted to bring a conversation to the podcast about life in your 30s. And I also wanted it to be lighthearted, but also like, there's so many women that listen to podcasts that are in that transition period of like 20s to 30s, and I think it's a time where you really wake up to so many things, so much changes inside of you. I feel like the second I turned 30, it was really weird. I'm not a person that gets super sentimental about like birthdays. I've never worried about really like getting older. It's always been exciting for me to get older, so I wasn't like not wanting to turn 30. But as soon as I turned 30, I almost felt like this immediate switch in what I wanted to prioritize in life, and I started aggressively thinking about like babies and pregnancy and like all these things that I had, you know, just a month prior been like, I'm not in a rush, don't need that to happen anytime soon. So it was the most bizarre kind of like experience of just like almost like a switch flipped, which is crazy. So Angie's 34, I'm about to turn 31. We're going to kind of talk about this transition of life in your 20s to life in your 30s because, you know, one minute you are this like personal development junkie, you're waking up at 5 AM, you're doing these HIIT workouts, you're chugging iced coffee, you're traveling the world, you're speaking on stages, and then the next thing you know you are like living in a farmhouse with a back garden full of chickens. You're reading smut books, you're drinking raw milk, baking sourdough and taping your mouth shut at night. And you're just kind of like, what is this arc and how did I get here?

Literally. God, I love this conversation. There's no one answer to this either, and that's what makes this so fascinating is I think there's so many different ways for women to approach their 30s. But it is fascinating that your 30s, I think you really come into your own and you really come into yourself. And for me, I spent so much of my 20s in such a state of survival and hustle and push and proving. Some would call this in the spiritual woo-woo space the masculine energy. I don't know what that fuck it was. Sure, call it that. And then I felt like after that I was just so burnt out from that and felt like everything I was doing was just to get approval and to be liked and to make money. And that gets old really fast. It really does. The things that you think you're going to be excited about, when you get there and they're not, what do you And so I had this huge wake-up call around what do I actually care about, what is actually success for me. And I'm still in it right now, to be fully transparent with you. I'm in one of arguably the hardest seasons of my life emotionally and mentally. I'm trying to figure out what that is, what is success for me now, wanting to be a mother soon. There's just so many different things now that I'm considering and taking into account that when I was 28, I didn't really think about, I didn't really care. It was just make as much money as possible, get as many followers as possible. Get the most downloads, have the biggest event. And then I crossed those things off my lists and I just felt empty. So what do you do when you hit your peak early and you got what you thought you wanted? Now you have to really figure out what is success and reinvent yourself. And so that's where I'm at. That is exactly where I'm at. And I'm really trying to redefine that. And I think there's a middle ground too, you know. It's— it is so funny on social media, you see the girl boss who's #childlessbychoice and she's jet-setting around the country being a girly boss, making all the money, right? We don't need men, we can just make her own money. And that's like, to me, I'm like, oh God. And then you've got the lady who's posting her 5 children who are just saints, right? These are just— these, these children are perfect. They're just frolicking in the backyard while she's milking her cows. And she's got the song, I Love This Little Life, you know, for her reel. And you're like, what the— that's also fucking like confusing because we know it's not easy to have 5 children on a farm. Come on, that sounds like a lot of work too. So it's very, very confusing because right now on social, I find that it's really hot to have things be this either-or extremes. And what I've realized is I want to be somewhere in the middle. Obviously, I am a huge fan of women working hard, being ambitious, being creative. I wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for entrepreneurship and going for my dreams and doing those things. And becoming a mother is and will be my number one priority. It's, it has to be. It's going to be the thing that I want to be my purpose, and then my work is just my creative outlet, and it's just maybe an additional purpose. Or how should I phrase that? It's my first priority, and then those other things enrich my life in different ways as well. So I'm gonna have figure out that dance, which I'm a little nervous about too. So it's just— I'm, I'm just a different person now than I was even 5, 6 years ago, which I'm glad. I'm, I'm glad I've changed, but I'm surprised by how much I did because I assumed that I was going to feel how I did at 27 forever. And then hormones kick in and your life changes, and you realize that what you thought was success might not actually be success. So I'm in my reinvention phase, my redefining happiness phase, redefining joy and finding that balance. I'm so committed to figuring out how do I live this really kick-ass fun life, have a great marriage, and also be a great parent, and also have creative passions and show women that that's possible. I don't know, but I'm gonna figure it out, and I'm super committed to my account becoming that journal of that. I guess I, I assume that's kind of what will happen because that's where I'm at.

So it's so funny that you mentioned the extremes because I was gonna ask you, like, on a scale from like rich bitch to like ballerina farm, where are we sitting?

So funny is— and I could go off on a huge tangent with this— but when women watch Bellarina Farm. They think, oh, this woman is just in her cute little dresses all day taking care of her chickens and making sourdough.

They think she's a tradwife.

Y'all, let me tell you something, this girl is crushing it. She's making a lot of money filming her life all day long. She is online all day long. She's creating content. She has partnerships. She's doing brand deals. I don't know if she also has merch, I'm not sure, but a few of my fellow entrepreneur friends and I were talking about this, we were like, dude, you know what's so funny is that she's giving off this illusion that she's a tradwife, but the real tradwife, you don't see her on Instagram because she's with her children all day, and that is her full-time job. So, and that's fine. I love it, actually. I wish she would just own it a little bit more and be like, guys, I'm feeding chickens and I'm also running this digital empire, and this is what it looks like to do both. That's really cool. And I don't know, maybe she is being honest about that, but it is funny when women think, oh, she's living the simple life. I'm like, guys, if we lived with her for a day, it would not be simple. I think it would be so far from simple. And I think there's also this— and I'm so curious your thoughts on this— I experienced both extremes. I was super hardcore hustle masculine, all I care about is work. And then I went super what I call hyper-feminine. It's almost where you go to the complete opposite and you have no discipline, no structure, you don't care about anything. I don't want to do anything, I'm just going to float here and be because all these spiritual books told me that being feminine is just being. You just be, right? You're just, you're just there and things just happen. And then that gets really boring and it's very unfulfilling. I experienced. And so I I have found out the hard way that the answer is somewhere in the middle. And that's not easy because it's so much sexier to choose an identity. And yeah, that's where I've been at. And I think also just figuring out now what motivates me, because I realized before— you guys are getting like a therapy session here— what really motivated me was when I was in states of stress. That's really where I've made a lot of money, is from states of anxiety and stress. And I'm grateful for that, that I'm still living on that money. Like, that's, that's amazing, that's beautiful. I've built soul, I've done a lot of cool things with it. And I don't know if I fully, in my central nervous system, know how to make money from a place that's not scarcity and not fear. And that's really scary for me because I would love to know what it's like to make it from joy, and I don't, if I'm fully honest. A little bit, but I more so know how to make it from a place of pressure and proving, competing with myself or comparing myself to others and thinking, oh shit, maybe I should do that. Like, I really know how to turn that on, and— but that fuel does not last a long time. So that's something I'm working on, and I believe it's totally possible. It has to be. And so I just realized that the other day. I was like, oh shit, when you feel safe, you don't feel as driven. How do I feel safe and also still have that drive driven at the same time?

You know Talks about that too is Stephen Bartlett. He's mentioned this a couple times on his show. He talks about like the idea of either being driven or dragged, and he talks about his success and how he's really obsessed with work. And him and his partner want to have a kid soon, and they're thinking about that, you know, they're in their early 30s also. He's obviously, you know, created so much wealth and success for himself and his life, but he's like, I can't stop, almost like I just want more and more and more. I want to do more. And he's like, when I really think about it, like, I do think that I'm being dragged. Dragged, not driven, just based on like childhood and, you know, growing up really poor and having to steal to eat and all these things is like then you have this intense drive. But I think even like you were competitive probably your whole life, right? Like weren't you in gymnastics and stuff like that? I don't know, I think like as a kid if you grow up like really competitive, especially in like— I was a competitive dancer and it's always about— unfortunately it is about winning. And also kind of like there's a lot of comparison because you have to look to your left and look to your right to know how you're doing. Okay, so I have something I think you're really gonna love, and your business is gonna love it even more. Do you want to steal the strategy I've been using to seduce premium buyers and sell out my offers on Instagram Stories? Chances are you're already posting, you're already making sales, but if your Instagram Stories aren't working as hard as you are, you're leaving money on the table. Sold Out Stories is going to teach you you exactly how to change that so that you can sell out any offer at any price point. And even high-caliber coaches miss this because selling on stories isn't about how much you post or how frequently you show up face to camera. It's about psychological sequencing. And the way you're posting right now might be giving the premium buyers in your audience the ick. Documenting your day and hoping it builds trust, posting look-at-me content and calling it authority, sharing client wins as soon as they drop in instead of strategically weaving them into a story selling sequence designed to drive demand and convert sales. We both know that you're not here to learn how to show up more. You're here because you know your content could be converting faster and more effectively. Sold Out Stories is going to give you 5 high-converting story selling frameworks built specifically for premium buyer psychology. Inside, you'll get over 6 hours of deep dive video trainings, real IG story breakdowns, and live walkthroughs that show you exactly how to elevate your slides from authority building all the way to offer flow in less than 10 slides. My clients have already been using these frameworks to pull 5-figure sales days while posting less. One client generated 14 premium leads from a single story sequence. Another sold out her event in under 6 hours with just 8 strategic story slides. No sales calls, no paid ads, just the right frameworks. You'll walk away knowing how to sequence for desire, transition into your offer seamlessly, and sell daily without ever feeling Salesy. You already know your offer is incredible, so now it's just time for your stories to sell it like it is. Grab Sold Out Stories today and turn 10 slides or less into your highest converting content. Let's make your next story your most profitable one yet. Click the link in the show notes below and I'll see you inside.

Yeah, I was a gymnast growing up. I was a sprinter, always an athlete. And so I took that same discipline and drive from athleticism, applied it to entrepreneurship, which is great. And that's when it can lead to exactly what you just said. It can become this obsession with winning versus enjoying the process. And now I'm seeing things through the lens of what do I really want to do now that I actually find super enjoyable for myself, versus just really looking through the lens of like— I'm really looking at it now through the lens of what do I find enjoyable as the artist, the creator, versus just doing it because it's what I should be doing or what somebody else is doing or to make other people happy or it just makes money.

And that shift I think happens to a lot of people in their, in their Yeah, well, and you also spoke about the pendulum swing, which I talk about a lot with so many of my clients on the podcast. I mean, it happens in every— I think we've all done it in like health and fitness, we've done it in work. Like, it happens in so many areas of our life where we're like so far over on one side in the masculine, in the, in the do-do-do, and then we get burnt out or we get jaded from that for, for whatever reason. And then we go over and we swing to the hyper-feminine, as you called it, and where, you know, the extreme of the feminine energy is chaos. So the extreme of masculine energy is burnout, the extreme of feminine energy is chaos. So everything just starts to feel really like messy, disorganized, unfulfilling. When you're way over in that hyper feminine, you're also not really making money because you have no structure. So you're like doing things but like they're not ever like really adding up, and then you're just like, what the heck is happening? And so then you're like, I'm over this, this fucking sucks, like I don't feel happy over here anymore. But initially You're like, freedom! Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Like, no schedules, no one telling me what to do. Like, and you feel great, but then it turns to the chaos and that's when you're like, okay, I gotta find my way back. I think certain people have like traumas that are created from their, however they were showing up in their hypermasculine or in their hyperfeminine. Like a lot of people have trauma from like burnout in a career or overworking in some capacity, or if they were like in fitness and they like were doing the competitions and they like went so hard, then they find it even just it feels scary almost to even go back to some sort of structure with their workouts, or it feels scary to like even lean into a little bit of time blocking for their schedule if they've been burned from, you know, a work burnout situation. So it's almost like reintegrating that part of yourself and reminding yourself that it is also safe to embrace that masculine energy that you have and like bring it back in to find that kind of yin and yang. And I think we're— to be fair, like, we're always kind of like dipping in and out of the two. But to your point, it's definitely easier to conceptualize who you are or what should be doing when you can fit into one of those clear boxes.

Absolutely. And, and for any women listening who have also struggled with eating disorders or obsessive exercise, orthorexia— with my history of orthorexia and obsessive eating and dieting and bikini shows and all that, it makes sense that I've really lived my life in extremes. So it makes sense that with business I did the same thing, make a ton of money. By 31, I didn't even need to work. That's insane. That's great. I'm not saying that from like a privileged look-at-me place. I'm saying it because I worked for it. But then it's so weird that everybody wants that and they think, oh, I would love to be retired at 32. No, you don't. It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. No, you don't. You don't. I, I think we should all never be done because you need that sense of purpose, you need that sense of growth, you need that sense of needing to get up and do something and have, have that. So when I went to the hyper feminine, it was cool for about 2 months, 3 months, and then it led to a really deep depression because there's just nothingness then. Yeah. And I've talked to therapists about this. This therapist that I talked to said she works with thousands of women, and the women who are the most depressed are the ones who come to her who are in that stream who moved to Bali. They've always moved to Bali, and they went to go find themselves and soul search, which is great for a little bit, but they did it way too long, and now they're lost. And I don't know who I am. They've lost all sense of direction and structure. They've gone so hyperfeminine that now they are depressed and confused and lost. And she said, this is what I work with all day long. And it's so funny because the illusion that is sold to women is just wait for Prince Charming to come and do everything for you, pay for everything for you, and you just get to lay there and be. You just get to be a little flower who just lays there and don't— you don't anything. And it's all about balance. That's fun for a little bit, but then it's just like today. If I said to you, you get all day to lay outside in the sun, all day long for 12 hours, you would like that for a little bit, and then you'd get a little antsy. You'd be like, I don't want to sit here all day. It's the same thing with our lives. And I didn't realize that. I had to experience it firsthand. Now I'm finally like, all right, I'm ready to work again. I'm ready to come back to an integrated place. But it's been, it's been hard.

And it's easy when you're in the like hyper-masculine state for it to sound really attractive to you, this idea of like, oh my Oh my gosh, if I just had like a man in my life who would like made a ton of money and like could pay for things and then I could just relax and then I could just be a wife and I could just, you know, clean the house and do whatever. And like some people do like thrive in that kind of like homemaker role. And I think that is a role in and of itself. So if you are being a wife or a stay-at-home mom, like you absolutely are working. So you have a purpose, but if you don't have kids, so you're just sitting around and then you're like, what am I doing? Like we need something. We need some sort of purpose. Haven't you heard that all the studies about like how people like die like really soon after they retire.

Oh yeah. And, and I'm gonna share this with you guys here because I own a product brand that we're going to sell soon. And we, my brother and I with Soul, we've been in many conversations about what this looks like after this, the sale. And, and we've sold part of it, but I mean, it's, it's a big deal emotionally and it can mess with people's psyche because we have many friends who have sold big companies in the wellness space. Some of them you guys know of, and it's really sad what happens after, which is so ironic because you're like, what do you mean? They made millions of dollars, aren't they happy? They sold. That wasn't the whole goal, kind of, but then you're done. What do you do? You, you have to think of the next thing, or you have to have some sort of other foundation, family, purpose. You have to, because if not, you've waited for this moment. It's like people who make their wedding the biggest, most exciting day of their life and then they're depressed after. You shouldn't make it— I don't think you should make any one thing the most best day of your life, because then it really sets you up for disappointment. And so we've had these conversations because, yeah, I'm really, I'm really conscious of this. And it is really sad that we've had We've had so many friends who've sold companies and literally fall off the face of the earth, go into depression, don't know who they are then. It's like they gave away their kid. Like, what's the point now? And that's so sad because they have tons of money, like so much, and they're so depressed. So I'm not saying that's everybody's experience, but being conscious of that, I am really trying to not put my eggs ever in one basket of fulfillment and not saying, okay, once we sell Soul, then I'll be happy. Once we sell it, oh, then I'll be so happy. Well, the reality is it's going to be another Tuesday. Cool, be some more money in my bank account. Taxes are going to come out of that too. So let's just be honest, I'll be left with like $10. No, it's not going to be as glamorous as anyone imagines. Then it's still going to be a regular fucking Tuesday, right? And I'm still going to go to Target, I'm still going to have my friends, I'm still going to— like, nothing's really going to change that much. And so I'm aware of that, and I'm really hyperconscious now of enjoying the journey, especially as an Enneagram 7. I'm like, okay, wait, how can we make this so fun so when we look back we loved how we built Soul? Not just, oh, we we need to get this amount of money when we sell, and then once we have that, now I'm happy. And so my brother and I, uh, talk about that a lot because he's a little bit more outcome-focused because he's a man, obviously. So it's like, get to the goal, get to the number. And I'm like, let's have fun while we're doing this.

You guys definitely accomplished that, having fun along the way. But, but yeah, I have heard of a lot of similar stories of that, of when people sell, it really messes with them emotionally. And I think it's just, it's another great reminder that it's not ultimately money that makes makes us happy. Obviously there's a certain amount of money that we need in order to feel safe and free and all those things, but we like to work, we like to have a purpose. And I always remind myself of that. Like, I think it would be weird for me to just not work or not do anything for the rest of my life. Like, I would be so bored. And so I know a lot of us are like looking forward to like, oh, when I have enough money to where I can like only work for 4 hours a week, or when I can retire by 45. And we're like thinking that that's gonna be it makes us happy. Sometimes it does bring a little bit of peace of mind to remember a lot of your happiness comes from feeling purposeful, having something you're excited about, having a project that you're working on, you know, wanting to go record a funny video for Soul with the whole team. Like, when that's done, like, there's going to be a lot— like, a hole in your heart.

Absolutely. There's so many studies behind dopamine, joy, serotonin. You can study the chemical side of it as well. It's, it's like, there's so many studies on how having something to look forward to and having a sense of growth and purpose and challenge in your life is actually what brings fulfillment versus everything being so easy and not doing anything. And maybe you've had those seasons as well where you actually feel worse when you're not challenged. And in the busy seasons, yes, you're a little stressed out that you're busier, but you actually feel more fulfilled. And I think that's because we're meant to create things. Our Creator, whatever you guys believe in, I think God put us here to create things and to do things and to put ourselves out there. I don't think we're meant to be idle. I think there's a Bible quote, I don't know, something about idle hands.

So I'm curious how that shows up for you.

Yeah, I don't know, guys, I'm not the expert at it, but I do know that is just so true. I'm curious for you, you're 30, you seem like a woman who's very integrated in your feminine, but also you do love doing work— that you love, that's the asterisk— you do love doing work and working. Do you see it as like, oh well, do you ever want to do tradwife? Do you want to do mom and creative work? Like, what's your vision? I'm so curious right now. What is it? It could change, of course.

But I've talked about this a little bit on the podcast, but my biggest fear— or not not like fear, but I guess like hesitation when it comes to moving into like the season of motherhood, right? I feel like I could be the type of person that is like, I just want to like hang out with my baby all day long. And like, I feel like I would just think that it feels so entertaining and good and joyful to just be like cuddling my baby and taking care of them all day. And so I'm like, I'm probably not going to want to work. Then I'm like behind the scenes like, well, we better fucking work now. Because I feel like I'm gonna be the person that's like, um, and I'm done, bye guys, see you never. But also, it's from the whole conversation that we had, I also know that that is seasonal. It'll like go come in like ebbs and flows. And so there could be a season where you're like, yep, I'm just a mom now, don't want to do anything else, see you later everybody. And then, you know, you could really want to work. I've found it helpful to like ask my entrepreneur friends and mentors that are moms about their experience, and everyone's experience is so different, which just goes to show you, like, you never know what's gonna happen. Like, some people are like, pregnancy was so hard, it took me out. Other people are like, newborn stage was like not my favorite, not gonna lie, I really struggled. Like, mental health was not good, was not able to be productive. Other people were like, I prepared so much for my maternity leave, and then I was actually so energized and ready to go, and I just wanted to work, and then I had all this free time and I was bored. And so there's been so many different like stories and versions that I'm Well, I guess it's just what it's gonna be for you is what it's gonna be for you. I think like in terms of right now in my life, I definitely love to work like straight up. I do on asterisk things that I love, right? Put me in a cubicle, I'm gonna jump out the window. But I also am pretty good about like always taking weekends off. When I go on a trip or I go on a vacation, I'm not trying to like work from Greece and I'm gonna be like out of the office. Like. So I think I have that kind of like balance of working while I'm working and then not working while I'm not working.

That's so good. The fact that you've balanced that or mastered that now is, is key.

Hey, don't forget that every month we are picking a Listener of the Month to win $50 in cash just for showing love to the show. All you have to do is leave an epic review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, screenshot the review before you hit submit, and DM that screenshot to us on Instagram at Make Make Shift Happen podcast. And that's it. I want to thank you for being such a loyal listener and show my appreciation by putting a little extra cash in your pocket. I know it's super easy not to do it, but every single rating and review seriously helps the show rank higher and reach new people, so we appreciate them more than you know. We'll announce the next winner at the end of the month and slide into your DMs if it's you, so keep an eye out and good luck. Love you guys, and thanks for supporting Make Shift happen. I feel like the only overlap place that's like gray area is probably like social media, right? Because that is like a weird thing where it's like it is work but like it's also personal, and like it's on my phone so it's always with me. And so that sometimes can bleed into me like, I guess technically working, but I'm not considering it working cuz I'm like replying to people's messages or comments or whatever the fuck else we're doing on social media all the time.

Yeah, I think it's an interesting delicate. Yeah, I think that's where it gets confusing because there's women who I know who are like, I only work 3 days a week, and you're like, well, you're on stories all day long every day. So I don't know, girl, like, do you really only work 3 days a week, 3 hours a week? You're on Instagram all day long answering or selling something. So not that that's bad, but just be honest. Don't sell the dream that I'm a stay-at-home mom who only works 3 hours a week. You're on your phone all the time though, so it still is work. I consider that work if you're selling or communicating with your audience or your customers. So yeah, it's going to be an interesting journey for both of us, and I think that we'll find that dance. I think that's so normal. I feel exactly the same, because it's anything that's on a pedestal or is a fantasy, it always seems— it's like no different than when someone's like, you're gonna meet your dream man, and you're like, oh my God, I'm just gonna want to hang out with him all day long, how would I do anything else? And they're like, oh, that's cute, that will— don't worry, that will wear off. It's like, yes, of course, and you will then realize there's other parts of you that need to still be integrated a bit, right? And, and I think for the women listening to your show especially, I think something to be said about your children seeing that their mother has a life outside of them that doesn't need to necessarily be crushing it in work. It could be hobbies, it could be female friendships. But I do think that's very healthy for children to see and something that I wish I would have saw more of, because when you don't, you develop codependency. And so I'm trying to be aware of that, like, okay, I know I'm going to want to make this child, or however many I have, this my entire world and obsession, but that's actually not healthy. After talking to many therapists, y'all, that's actually really unhealthy, because as much as our society makes it seem like think that's healthy. I think it, to a degree, it is. Of course you want to be a good parent, and if you give up every single aspect of you, what makes you you, for them, now what you've created is a codependent relationship. Those people leave your house after 18 years if you did parenting well. So now what, what are you gonna do? You just gave up everything, all of your— right? I, I think that can be a little scary. So that's something I'm thinking about now, even though I'm like, yeah, I'll just do nothing. I'm like, hopefully I will, once I'm ready to. Obviously, after probably like 6 months to a year or something, I, I I think it's— I don't know, I just think it's healthy to still have your own sense of identity. And this is coming from talking to tons of my friends who are moms and entrepreneurs. They're like, I told— listen, I get it, you're gonna feel that way for like the first 6 months, and then all of a sudden you're gonna be like, all right, I need to like bring me back in a little bit here and not see it so either-or. Because what I'm doing in my head is making them enemies of each other, right? Like, you either choose this one or this one. It's like, well, what if they actually help each other? So that's something I'm working on because this is like a big theme in my life right now. I was like, how do you— how do people do both? Like, well, one, they have help. If you have money, you can figure it out. You can get support. It's not hard. I mean, it is hard, but you know what I mean. Get rich. Seriously, I wish people were just honest, like, oh yeah, they have nannies, they have support, of course, and then they're able to also run their business. But if you don't, that's when I'm like, shit, that would be very, very, very difficult for sure.

Yeah, those are the people that I'm like, wow, I really admire them. I have, you know, clients and people that are new moms, they have babies, they're building businesses, they're in those early stages, and they're in both— they have one foot in both of those places at the same time. And yeah, like, not a lot of help. And I'm like, wow, That's— you have to love what you do if that's, you know, the journey that you're on, because that's really incredible.

So that sounds exhausting.

I know, I'm like, oh my God, fuck. You've been talking about becoming a mom for a long time. What is your kind of like perspective on— do you feel that you're not ready yet? Are you waiting for something to happen? Are you like, when in God's timing, just like let it, let it rip, I'm ready? Like, how do you feel? Because I'm still like, like, I feel that— I feel the like desire, but I'm not like all the way in of like, yeah, let's try it.

Yeah, I mean, you still— I mean, we have so much time, so it's like that. You don't have to— I think that's great that you're at that place because you could just— you could wait a few years. You don't have to, you know. I think that's just beautiful where you're at. Yeah, no, we've been trying, so I'm, I'm in the journey. I won't share a bunch of it here because it's been a lot, obviously, but yeah, it's, it's been, it's been a ride. I'm gonna write a book on it when I'm done because it's been really, really hard. It's been a really, really hard journey. Not something I expected because people tell you that it's it's gonna happen right away, and then you find out it doesn't, and then it rocks your world. And so yeah, it's been a lot, but you know, hopefully, hopefully it'll be this year, but we'll see. That's the only, I guess, answer I can give you without crying. So it's just been a lot, man. It's been a whole fucking thing that I never thought I would ever have to, uh, go through, but it's womanhood and I'm in it because I have no other choice other than to be in it.

So that's one of those things when we're talking about, you know, life between your 20s and 30s is like when you're in your 20s like, you know, you're gonna get pregnant and die. And then you're in your 30s and you're like, can I please get pregnant? Like, what do you know what I mean? It's just crazy. And I think one of the things also that I learned about in my late 20s, early 30s was like actually understanding my cycle. Didn't know a thing about that before. Like, wow, that was illuminating to realize that the birth control that I was on for 10 years was like stopping my ovulation. I had no idea. I literally didn't even know that that's what it I did for 10 years.

Wow. And now how long have you been off of it?

Uh, it's got to be like 4 years now.

Oh nice, okay, that's good, that's good. Yeah, you— they say you want to give your body like 5 to 7 years to detox from it, so that's great. You're already like almost at the 5-year of like detoxing. You have new cell turnover every 7 years or something, so that's great.

Okay, good, halfway there.

But yeah, I think, you know, looking back, I think I have a lot of, why is this my path, or should I have started them younger, but I'm like, no, I think there's such a beauty to having your children in your mid- 30s, even though society tells you you're geriatric at 35, which is absolutely ridiculous. There's so much beauty and wisdom and maturity. I've grown so much, dude. I've grown so much from 31 to 34 even. Oh my God, I'm such a different woman in person. This process of being in the waiting room has changed me in so many ways. And so yeah, I think there's going to be— there's going to be beauty to me not having them when I was 25, even though that— if that would have been my journey, that would have— I would have figured it out. But I think there's something special about having them in your 30s because you have a new level of awareness wisdom.

I think so too. Jaime and I talk about that a lot. I'm like, if we would have had a baby when we were like— because we've, we've been together since we were 21, so if we would have had a baby even when we were like— we, we talk about this a lot because we got our dog, and we got our dog when I was like 24, and we were— I mean, the dog almost like made us break up. It was like such a big— also because he was a really challenging dog. He's a husky and so much energy and needed, needed a lot. But anyways, I'm like, we would have been such different parents parents. And the more that we grow, the more grateful I am that someday, God willing, when we do have kids, that they will get this version of us that is so much more mature, so much more regulated, like so much less likely to have these like outbursts of, you know, anger or lashing out or whatever. Like there's just so much that you grow in and like heal through, especially when you're, you know, doing the work, going to therapy baby, all that kind of stuff. You do, you become a totally different person. You're like, wow, that's pretty cool that like in the most formative years of my child's life, from 0 to 7, they're gonna get a really fucking mature version of me.

Yeah, absolutely. Like, I, I think that there's such a beauty to that, that I think it's becoming more popular now for women to have children in their 30s versus 20s, because I think we're seeing that like in society of, oh wow, I, I want to learn some things first and go through some shit myself first and have it be a little bit more— you're never going to be ready, but a little bit more ready. So yeah, that's That's why I'm like, just enjoy it now then. If you're not in the— I wish I could go back to that phase. I'm like in the psychotic phase with it now, but if I wasn't, oh, that was the best. When you're not like psycho about it or having to track all the time and it's a whole fucking job. So I feel like, enjoy, enjoy this then. Stay in the bliss, stay in the joy as long as you can.

Yeah. But then it's also that, it's like, you know, you worry about like not wanting to get pregnant if you don't feel ready. And then you also worry about, will I not be able to get pregnant when I am ready. And there's no way to figure that out besides quite literally fucking around and finding out.

Literally. And no one tells you that. No one prepares you. No one tells you. But yeah, I'm excited. I'm gonna write a book about it. I actually have the title and everything ready. I've been documenting behind the scenes as much as I can because I just don't— I don't know, I always go back and forth if I want to like do the whole thing publicly and take people on the long journey with me. But with something this intimate, it's like I don't. But I'm like, when I am, I'm gonna release all of it and it's gonna be a whole thing on all of it. I'm really excited because the excitement and passion I feel now and connection for other women who are in that is like huge. And so yeah, I'm excited to release it when I'm on the other side because I think it'll be really, really powerful for other women who feel like no one talks about the waiting season. They just talk about pregnancy and postpartum, but nobody talks about how excruciating this can be. And you don't know what to do, you go, go crazy. And so I'm like documenting the whole thing so then I can come out with content that hopefully one day I'll laugh at and be able to help other women.

It'll be a gift to your past self and to anyone who's also going through something like that. So thanks for sharing. Well, we'll be on the journey. I'm excited to see how it unfolds for you. I'm sending all the baby dust your way. I want to ask you, you had a post recently about things that you've done to like get leaner or have more energy in your 30s. Yeah, I just love to get like your perspective on health, like eating, workouts, you know, the differences in your 20s, in your 30s. I mean, like when I was in my 20s, I put a whole bottle of wine into MyFitnessPal to see how many calories it was, if that gives any indication of like what was happening in my 20s. And then the next day I would go to the gym and bang out like a 45-minute Kayla Itsines, uh, bikini body workout thing. And now I think my biggest stressor on a daily basis is how I'm gonna get enough protein in. Like, how much things change in that realm.

I just obsess about protein all day.

I'm like, when did I— when did this happen? Is this a sickness? I think it's also a trend. Like, hopefully we're gonna stop caring about this so much at some point because it's honestly stealing time and energy from me.

Listen, y'all, all I do all day is track my protein and pee on ovulation strips, and I'm fucking sick of it.

Okay, we're over it.

Maybe I'll just be a childless vegan. My life would be so much easier.

Oh my God, right?

But I do think protein is very, very important, and I talked about that in, in that post, because as we get older, we need more to maintain our muscle. And I'm a huge, huge, huge fan of Gabrielle Lyon. Her work around muscle and metabolism and protein is fascinating. Go check out her work. I've always loved protein, so for me, that's actually really easy. I love protein. Protein. I love meat. I'm basically animal-based. I could eat meat and protein all day long. It's the other stuff that's hard for me to get in. I'm not the best at getting in healthy fats and veggies and healthy carbs. I, I can skimp on that stuff, so that part is somewhat easy for me. But what was hard for me is shifting the mindset from more exercise and more intensity is better and killing myself in the gym is the goal to being kind to my body and not overtraining and focusing more on walking and lifting here and there. And just especially now in this season with the preconception phase, I am really trying to help my body feel safe. And so the last thing I want to do is go to Barry's Bootcamp and do who the fuck knows what burpees for 50 minutes at 5 AM.

Jumps, jump lunges, burpees at 5 AM and just wreck my cortisol.

So I'm very conscious now of stress, cortisol. I prioritize sleep over everything. For me, I focus on the big S's. It's sleep, sun, stress management. Honestly, I think sleep is a huge part of that. I think all of us need to be sleeping more. And getting better sleep, silly goose time, having fun, play. I think it really comes down to the basic strength training. I think you really have to focus on the basics where I feel like the biohacking movement has gone a little too far. And this is coming from someone who owns a supplement brand, and I'm a huge, huge fan of supplementation when needed. And also, I don't think we all need a $40,000 red light to heal. The sun actually gives you equivalent red light at certain times. There's an app where you can check, but the sun is free, so that doesn't make as much money. It's just so important to know a lot of the best things for your health are free. Getting good quality sleep, having good relationships, managing your stress, doing you love, being on purpose, eating quality protein— that's not free, I wish that was— yeah, sunshine, sex, having fun, silly goose time— that goes back to connection with people. I think a lot of it is actually really basic primal things we used to do, and now we're overcomplicating it with all these crazy routines where you got to put mouth tape on at 5 AM and jump in a cold plunge and then do Barry's Bootcamp and then also stick something up your nose or your butt and then do an enema. It's like, oh my God, how am I supposed to keep up with all this? This is so much, it's exhausting. And my friends and I, we chat about this because we're all wellness girlies. We're like, are you exhausted from your to-do of all of your biohacks? Because I am. And so recently, this— these last few months, I'm like, what would life look like if I did less when it comes to that? Just move how I want to move. Right now I'm mostly just walking because that's what my body wants to do right now. Weighted vest walking, getting really good sleep, eating whole foods but not obsessing about all of the calories or anything. And it's been interesting because it's still hard for me a little bit to not slip back into the obsessive— let me count every calorie, let me freak out about macronutrients, let me think I need this next fancy red red light blah blah blah device that's gonna fix everything for me. And you have to, you have to be careful. You have to have discernment and really make sure you first have the basics down, and then you can add on a fancy gadget. But if you're not getting sun first thing in the morning to optimize your hormones, if you're not sleeping well, if you have toxic relationships, if you're eating processed food, it doesn't matter if you go buy a red light. So that, that's kind of where I stand, is I think it's actually going back to the basics.

Yeah, for sure. I'm such a basic bitch sometimes. I'm like, I wish I had more fancy stuff. Like, I'm really sold on the red light. I want the red light. Like, I'm so basic. I work out 3 times a week, just lifting weights. That's something I started this year. At the start of the year, I was like, I'm gonna get a personal trainer, I'm gonna learn how to like lift heavy and really just focus on building muscle. And I just— I have done that 3 times a week for this whole year, and that's really all I do. I mean, I walk. I, I'm not hitting 10,000 steps every day. I would love to, but it really just depends on my work schedule, because sometimes I'm here in this chair recording or with clients or, you know, sitting like a lot. But I do have a dog, so he gets me outside. We go on walks. Sunshine is huge. Luckily I live in Florida, so no lack of that. We get sun literally every day, which is amazing. And we have these floor-to-ceiling windows in both of the bedrooms, so in the morning we really just like wake up with the sun. Like the sun rises over the ocean and just like comes into our room. So yeah, the natural light wakes me up, which is supposed to be good for you. And yeah, like I'm not, I'm not very complicated. I don't have like like a huge crazy complicated morning routine. Most of the time I'm just making sure I get breakfast, take the dog for a walk, and then I start working.

Wow, I love that you keep it simple. Food— have you ever had issues with it? Do you—

when I was in my 20s, I never had like an eating disorder, but I definitely had disordered eating thoughts. When I was— after I'd studied abroad, I gained a bunch of weight, and then I was like, this has to change. But I was also still binge drinking alcohol on the weekends at school, and you know, I was in my senior year college. So I mean, I don't know how much progress you're going to make from a health standpoint, which is what that lifestyle— so it was just a constant, you know, like putting effort, like I said, putting the whole bottle of wine into MyFitnessPal just to see how many calories I had consumed that day, and then being like, okay, that's really fucked up, so I should definitely go to the gym. And yeah, then I started to feel guilty around certain foods, which I'd never felt in my whole life. Like, I realized that peanut butter and jelly, like having a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, was like a really bad bad thing to eat. And then I was like, oh my God. So then I would want one, and then I would eat one, and then I would feel bad about it. So that season of my life, I definitely had disordered eating thoughts and patterns, and it would make me binge more. Like, I would do really good, quote unquote, and then there would be a tray of donuts out at our, you know, football game pregame thing, and I would like— I would put like 4 or 5 of them down because I'm like, oh my God, donuts, you know. So I definitely went through a season in my life where I was weird with food. I'm really happy to say now I am so relaxed with food. I'll eat 3, 4 Reese's Cups after a meal and I'm like happy about it.

Oh wow, you're really balanced. Do you limit any foods?

No.

Wow, you eat carbs, proteins, fats?

I eat whatever I want. I mean, this is not good, but like sometimes like a whole of the like little thing of like Ben Jerry's, but I feel fine afterwards. I'm not like, oh my God, that was so bad, I shouldn't have done— like I'm not trying to correct. I'm not— I don't have like corrective behavior with food anymore.

Have you ever been overweight though? Do you find that your body is pretty— you're naturally fit, like you're naturally—

I would say I'm probably naturally a little bit leaner, but when I was studying abroad and when I was in college, I think it was a lot— had a lot to do with the alcohol, but also I wasn't eating the healthiest foods. I didn't even know. And even, you know, I think we're just finding out now about how unhealthy certain things are that we thought were healthy. Even like health, quote unquote, health foods had so many bad, you chemicals or seed oils or things in them that we weren't even conscious of, uh, 10, 15 years ago. Even when I thought I was eating healthy, I probably was putting things in my body that were not helpful. But I was definitely not— I had no thought about like protein or eating a balanced plate or anything. And I was binge drinking alcohol all the time, and I have a huge sweet tooth, so like love ice cream, love treats, love all the things. I was probably like 15 or 20 pounds like overweight after study abroad. And that's when I was like, oh my gosh, I have to fix this. And that kind of like spiraled me a little bit, but then I came back into balance. It was the weirdest thing. Like, I was doing so many HIIT workouts, really trying to like push myself to like drop the weight. And actually, as soon as I let go of my gym membership, like I stopped going and I just did yoga for a couple of months, I like lost everything. And that also taught me that it was hugely influenced by cortisol.

Cortisol is everything. Oh, that's so fascinating.

I love that.

I love that you're place where it's— it feels super balanced and you're not super restrictive.

Yeah, I feel really lucky. Okay, last thing I want to chat about is sleep, because you mentioned getting good sleep. I love all the— all the S's, by the way. Like, that's— that's such an easy way to remember, like, the basics.

I know, I need to do an episode on it because I wrote it out, and then I was telling Clay about it. We have it written on our fridge, and he was like, you should do an episode on this. I'm like, yeah, okay, because I've kind of mastered, like, the 7 S's. And if you just do these, I think you'll be a pretty healthy woman, and you don't have to worry about all the fancy stuff.

So yeah, so good, the 7 S's. Also with the 7 with an S. Wow. So play.

I love it.

So I have this meme saved in my phone that was like, you turn 30 and the whole squad starts talking about taking magnesium, which is so funny and also so true. But I know you're a big geek when it comes to like sleep, and you've always talked about different sleep things. So in the spirit of also wanting to be like more balanced and not being like too crazy with things, what are your favorite things that you love for getting really good sleep right now?

Baby grandma has all of the hacks. I pull it all out. Okay, first, this is what you got to do. You got to get your room to like 68-ish degrees. You got to cool the room down. Then you need blackout shades. I'm taking you through my nighttime routine. And then I plug in my salt lamps or red lights, so everything is orange, amber, and red in the house. There is no artificial light once the sun goes down. That helps a ton with melatonin production, anxiety, cortisol, stress. It gets you just vibing, you know. You don't have to worry about bright artificial hospital lights. No, no thank you, we are not doing that at night. So the whole house is orange. And then what I do is I have my weighted eye mask. I love weighted eye mask, it feels so good. Weighted blankie is also key. And And then for supplementation, I'll rotate. Sometimes I'll do just a pure melatonin, sometimes I'll do our sleepy capsules from Sol, sometimes I'll do our sleepy drink, sometimes I'll just do one of our gummies, our regular CBD gummies. And then sometimes what I do as well is I'll make a magnesium drink by Bioptimizers, and I'll do a little scoop of the raspberry Bioptimizers, and I'll do that. But I'm usually always mixing magnesium with some sort of sleep support, 3 to 4 days a week. And then a few days a week, I don't do anything, I don't take anything, I just let my body naturally learn how to go to sleep. So yeah, that's kind of what I do, and I think it's huge. The light's huge. I think brain dumping anything that's stressing you out before you go to sleep— I have a journal next to my bed, I'm gonna— I do that. And I recently have been trying to go to bed even earlier, which sounds crazy, but I've been trying to go to bed at 9 instead of 10, which means you have to be laying in your bed about 8:40-ish because by the time you actually fall asleep, it is a game changer. You'll wake up earlier, but oh my gosh, you feel like a different person. I'm like super committed to trying that. I did it and then I messed up a few days, and I'm committed starting tonight to do it again, even though it's not fun because you're like, I want to stay up, I want to like watch a movie or do something. Just do it. You wake up and feel like a new woman, you know? And it's like, we don't have kids yet, let's do this, let's, let's get all the sleep we can.

Just binge sleep.

That's honestly one of my biggest focuses right now is just sleep and stress management, because I am in such an emotionally stressful season of my life that I'm like, you know what, I just need more sleep than I usually do. And I think that's an important reminder if you're listening. It's, if you're in a season of life that's hard, give your body sleep. Your body wants more rest, your brain needs it, especially as women. And then in seasons of life where you don't need it as much, then, then that's great. But you'll know when you're in a season where you can tell your soul and your spirit needs more sleep. And I think that sleep is medicine. It's truly medicine.

I love sleep. Oh my God, I just— I could sleep anywhere. Like, it's kind of bad, but I just like fall asleep literally anywhere. The first year that I lived in Spain, I would like fall asleep at like parties. It's bad because I also was like just so jet-lagged. And I think it was like an emotionally stressful time probably in my life, like moving my whole life to a new country and not knowing anyone and still learning the language and all that. So yeah, Jaime would take me to like a bar or like some— to hang out with his friends on the beach or something, I'll just be passed out on the beach towel. Like, we're like in the car, we take a 10-minute car ride to like go somewhere and I'd just be like snoring on the window, like sleeping all the time. But I saw something recently which I think is like a kind of like conversation that a lot of people are having about how they've discovered now that women need more sleep than men and that the like 7 to 8 hour recommendation is more based on a man's biology. And for a woman's biology, they typically need 9 to to 10 hours of sleep, which makes a lot of fucking sense to me because that is, that is tracking.

Oh yeah, I definitely sleep way more than Clay, and I think it's so weird that he doesn't need as much sleep. But I'm like, their bodies just repair differently. Our brains, and especially if you have ADD, if you're stressed, I mean, my brain needs like 12 hours. It needs a lot. I do not skimp on it. And I think there's a lot of the sleep when you're, when you're dead and just keep pushing in the entrepreneur space. And I'm like, even in my busiest seasons, I never skimped on sleep ever once. I've never pulled an all-nighter for work. I refuse to do it. It was actually a commitment I've made, and I've never once done it. Not once. Literally never once. If I could go to sleep and then wake up and finish the project or finish the thing or send the email, I will. I'll always choose sleep over, over all of it. And I've been able to do cool shit by prioritizing that. So I think that— I don't know, I hope that other women hear that and realize you don't have to sacrifice that.

So, so true. And I think this goes into, you know, the conversation too about like aging. And again, with the 7 S's, like a lot of the things that are going to keep you young when it comes to aging is things like sleep is, you know, humor, like time with friends, dancing, travel. I don't know, like all that stuff is what— when I think about like what's going to keep me young through the process of, of aging, it's, it's that kind of stuff.

Yeah, because I look at women who are like 50 and up who look really, really good, and yes, some of them are getting work done, but who have that really youthful spirit, or the ones who don't have any work done, and then you're like, whoa, you still look real— like, you look really good, what are you doing? It's honestly, it's so weird, but I've been like studying this. It's never woman who's like, oh, I have this machine and this biohack and this. It's not like the control freak who's doing all that. It's always this woman who's like, yeah, I eat pasta and I have wine here and there, and me and my husband, we hang out, we do this, and oh, I have these hobbies. And it's like this free woman. Honestly, I'm like, you're eating worse than me, you're working out less than me, you're having more— like, what?

She's less stressed.

She's just living. And I'm like, oh my God, you have McDonald's once in a while? Oh my God. But she looks vibrant, her skin looks good, and I'm— I've really been taking that into account lately. I'm like, maybe I need some McDonald's.

Maybe you need some McDonald's. You know what, I gotta say, the occasional burger fry McFlurry.

Wow, that sounds so good. I haven't had it like in— since I was little. I have no idea what McDonald's even tastes like. Oh my God, Ang, dude, literally since I was little. Should I just go today? McDonald's? Hey, why not? Just shit my pants.

It's 11:11, it's your lucky day.

And just shit my pants when I get home, cuz my body is like, we have not had food like this in forever.

Yeah, maybe, maybe just do like a couple fries, maybe not the whole— one or two, dunked in a little bit of the McFlurry.

That's so funny. That's the biggest thing, as you can tell. I think a lot of what I'm working on now is this, um, releasing control and working on central nervous system. And I think the woman who— I don't want to say wins because there's no, there's no, uh, prize at the end, we're all gonna die— but it's the happiest people, the happiest women that are thriving. I've noticed one of the biggest lessons I've learned in my 30s is the woman who is at peace, who's calm, and who's not psycho and controlling. And that means all areas of life: motherhood, career, wellness. And that's something I need to work on because I'm naturally someone who will be the controller and hard on myself. And so that's what I'm working on, which is so counterintuitive to what, you know, we thought. But here we are.

I think for me it's going to be a huge test letting go of control with kids and not wanting to correct how they do things or like teach them the better way. Oh my God, I had to learn this so much with my partner, and I still— I still— I'm not perfect. I'm not perfect because I'm like, I can do it better. And that's bad. That's bad. Don't do that, ladies.

Especially with men. Ladies, um, don't do that. I've been reading books about that. Don't.

I actually read one of the books that you posted about The Surrendered Wife.

Oh yeah, you interviewed her. Yeah. Oh, did you? Did you?

Oh my That's so funny. I was just thinking about all the people that would be so mad about listening. But you know how like it's quite polarizing if you're not in the right headspace to like receive it? I was loving it, but I was just thinking about people who have no space for like nuance would probably be listening to— all the angry feminists would be listening to that and just be not, not happy about it.

Yeah, they're gonna be like, oh shit, I have to re-record the intro because I'm trying to figure out a way to say it where I'm like— I'm trying not to censor myself anymore, I don't care— but I'm just gonna be like, listen, you have some nuance when you listen to this, and it's helped me, it's been a game changer, and I'm obsessed with that topic right now. Like, it's my favorite thing to study right now, and I kind of want to start talking about it more because it's, it's fascinating. And she opened my eyes to so much that I was doing wrong.

So that's the feminine energy in relationship of like letting the man lead. And oh my God, if you guys want to go listen to that book and also check out Angie's episode with the author, because Laura Doyle, she's awesome.

Yeah, it might sting, but honestly it didn't sting me. I was like, oh, I have a lot I need to work on.

Oh no. Yeah, I just, I listened to it and I was I was like, facts, I should probably do that.

I think women think that it means you have to be oppressed, and it's like, no, no, no, no, that's not what she's saying. She's saying actually be joyful, be happy, and be respectful. That's really ultimately what it's about. It's not like you have to feel like you're oppressed now, you know, from by the man.

It doesn't mean that you don't have a voice. I think some people— and also I think that people are going to carry their lived experience into anything that they go into, and they're going to see things through their lens. And if you have been abusive relationships or situations where the man's masculinity or his power or his leadership was unsafe, then you're obviously gonna have a different perspective. Yeah, true, true. So there's, you know, space for that to be true as well. But that's part of the journey of us becoming more relaxed, more surrendered, letting go. That's the title of this episode, Surrendered Wife.

Letting the fuck go.

Letting the fuck go. Becoming a surrendered wife in your 30s.

Becoming a surrendered woman. I love it. So good.

Thank you so much for coming on, Angie. It's always fun having you, and we just have the best, most like real honest conversation. So thank you for your honesty and sharing everything and just being you.

Oh, thank you so much. This was so good. I loved it.

Yeah, so much fun. All right, you guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you know someone who's in this season of their life, if you have a friend, a sister, anyone who you think would enjoy listening to this real conversation, copy the link, send it to her in a message, let her know you were thinking of her, and And, um, we will talk to you guys next week. If you loved this episode, make sure that you let Angie or I know so that we can connect with you guys in the DMs. We both love to chat. We are the people behind our social media, so we will be in the DMs with you guys. We love you so much, and we'll talk to you next week. Bye!