Money is a Mirror of your Current Identity "Shadow work saved my life" w/ Victoria St. Fleur

What's up guys, welcome back to the podcast. Today you get to listen in on a very special conversation between me and one of my industry friends, Victoria Ward. Victoria is a business embodiment mentor for self-actualized CEOs scaling to six figures and beyond, specializing in nervous system capacity, shadow work, and strategy. Vic and I first met in a business mastermind that we were in together, and I quickly discovered that she is a stunning communicator with loads of hidden wisdom and one of the most hilarious humans I have the pleasure of knowing. And she also has a pretty wild personal story. So in this episode, you'll hear Vic and I discuss the journey of how she almost died at the hands of severe drug addiction, but through the power of mentorship and shadow work, was able to pull herself out, get clean, and build a multi-six-figure business at rapid speed. Looking at her past, what Vic has been able to create for herself makes no logical sense. Statistically, she should be dead, much less living a healthy, purposeful, and prosperous life. But you know that around here we are all about those illogical success stories.

So we're going to unpack all of it.

We're also going to get into money as a mirror of your identity, shifting your self-concept when it comes to wealth and success, the number one way to sabotage your growth, nervous system regulation and limitless capacity, secondary gains and kinks that are holding you back, and why oftentimes the biggest block is you thinking that you have a block. I hope this episode deeply inspires you and serves as a powerful reminder that with the right tools and guidance, where you have been does not have to be any indication of where you are going. Your potential is limitless. All right, let's get into this episode. Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast Makeshift is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go makeshift happen. We know from the longest study ever conducted on human happiness from Harvard University that the key to not only fulfillment but also longevity is relationships. And I believe this applies not only to life but also to business. As digital entrepreneurs, we do so much of this work alone behind a screen. And to be honest, the more that you grow and succeed, the less anyone around you can relate to what you're doing, the goals you're setting, the lifestyle choices you're making, or the type of money that you're earning. Which is why Top Tier Mastermind is designed to to be a small, tight-knit space where you can actually drop in, feel seen, and make some really incredible badass entrepreneur friends. It's also why we infuse an in-person retreat into the mastermind so that we can actually meet in real life and deepen those connections. I'll invite you into my personal home and take you to some of my favorite places in my beach town here in South Florida. We'll mastermind in person, stay at a gorgeous hotel on the beach, practice yoga in the mornings, do a photo shoot, record content together, and have vibey dinners on the water. Am I piquing your interest yet? Top Tier is a 6-month high-touch business mastermind designed to help online coaches and service providers scale sustainably, build an uncopiable brand, and become a respected voice in the industry. We meet weekly for hot seat coaching calls and have an electric Telegram chat going at all times so that you can pop in and be supported anytime, anywhere. You'll also get access to over 20 hours of my best high-level business trainings, as well as monthly live hypno breathwork journeys to reprogram your subconscious around leadership, capacity for wealth, increased visibility, living with an open heart, and more. You'll be guided into your own personal creative vortex so that you can uncover juicy content ideas that are uniquely you. I'll also teach you my million-dollar messaging techniques to help you formulate irresistible hooks and drool-worthy content so that your comment section is full of people who are ready to hire you. If you are ready to step into leader frequency, explode your business, or adapt it to fit a new season of life you might be entering into, Top Tier is the space for you. Please note that this is for established entrepreneurs only with functional businesses. This is not a suitable space for beginners. Application only. Click the link in the show notes to apply today. We love a fun discount, so the earlier you apply, the more money you save. We start in July.

Welcome to the show, Vic. I'm so excited that you're here. I can't wait for the listeners to hear from you. You are one of the people that I love to listen to talk the most because I feel like you get into this like channeling state and just so much like wisdom pours through you and you just go on these crazy tangents. I feel like you'll show up on your Instagram stories and you'll start talking about something and then it'll just like go and go and go and go and it gets so deep so fast. And I'm just like, you are a channel and I love listening to you because I feel like in the most random moments, like the best things just like pour out of you. So I can't wait for everyone to hear from you. We met in a mastermind that we were in together and I loved your energy. I think you're hilarious and a genius, so I'm really excited to have you on the show. And you also have one of the most stunning redemption stories, and I can't wait for us to talk about that. And I know that, you know, together you've kind of joked about it with me, like, oh, back when I was on horse tranquilizers and things. Like, I remember you saying that to me, and I was just like, oh my God. But truly, like, so yes, we can, we can keep it light, but also there are so many people that really need to feel and see the power of what it looks like to release addictions, old patterns, old identities. And choose to self-actualize, whether that's in life or business or relationships or whatever it is. Because I think in a lot of ways, you know, we're all in addictive patterns of some kind, and we're all living from old identities that we could choose to drop and transform if we were willing to do the shadow work around it. So I'd love for you to kind of take us back to start and give people context of, you know, your journey and that transformation and who you are to 2017, 2018, kind of share what that season of life looked like. Obviously there was a lot of self-sabotage involved. You were being really avoidant. What were you running from? Like, why did you feel like numbing was the best option, and how did shadow work really ultimately save you?

Well, first of all, I feel very seen right now, and I also feel like you've recapped my life better than anyone I've ever heard, so thank you for that. Um, so yeah, I— what was I running from? Um, you know, I was, I was trying to outrun myself, like, in my own body, right? And I think that there was this like really strong, um, hope that someday somehow I was either going to put enough distance between me and myself to just kind of like exist in the world. Because I think my biggest fear was like being stuck with me and not knowing how to exist inside of myself. And as far as like really knowing who I was, it was like totally out of the question, you know? 2017, my best friend passed away, and she was the most important person in She was the most important person in my world. And I had this like internal declaration that I was just, you know, never gonna use drugs again out of like reverence for her. And that was really when I realized that there was no— there was like nothing that was going to make me stop until I was willing to do the work. And what I would even say is that like, you know, the issue wasn't the fact that I was an addict and that I was addicted to drugs. It was that I I didn't know how to be like a sober, functioning human. I didn't know how to be myself. I didn't know how to be in my body. I didn't know how to be in the world. I felt completely unsafe with everything. And I was, I was really just living in an autopilot state of unconsciousness where I was just playing out who I'd always been. And I didn't understand that there was this other option, this other choice to really reinvent myself, to be someone different. But what I would also say, you know, which in context to what my life really was at that time sounds like slightly psychotic is like, I also always knew that there was gonna be this huge just transition of who I was and there was gonna be a totally different life I was gonna lead. I didn't know how or when that was gonna happen because there was even these moments where like I had just kind of conceded to myself like, I think I'm just going to like die a drug addict. Like I'm just gonna be like this forever. But then there was this other part of me that's like, mm, no, like there's gonna be something else. And I was like, well, I don't see how that's gonna happen. And so I think that there was almost like an ultimate surrender to who and what I was that was able to give way to, to me not fighting that and eventually getting the support that I needed to, to really just completely change my life and who I was.

So in your experience, was it like multiple attempts? Was it like multiple attempts to try to get sober? Was it working and then not working? Or was there like a clear, like, defining moment, perhaps like when your friend died or something that really made you just go like, I'm this is the moment where I'm choosing to change?

Oh my gosh, uh, there was definitely not a clear path. There was definitely not a clear path. I started drinking and using drugs when I was like 14 or 15. I'm a high school dropout. I went to college after getting my GED to become a substance abuse counselor, which is pretty fucking hilarious. But, uh, I was like, yeah, like, this is gonna be like the path. And I remember being— so there was this point that I had realized that I was working at an addiction treatment center, and I was working like teaching women like how to be sober and then I was going home at night and being absolutely not sober. And I would tell you that there was like a shred of integrity, right? But it was really that I just had no desire to be— I had a desire to help people get sober, but I had no desire to be sober. And I think that that's what I told myself, because the other option would have been that I did want to be sober and I just had like no power to do that. Like, I just had no way of figuring that out. And so, you know, my best friend, when before she passed away, she passed away from a drug overdose. And before that, she had gone to receive support. Like, she went into a 12-step program, like a 12-step fellowship, and she went through this, you know, radically transformative process. But I believe that there were things that she was not willing to be completely honest with within herself, and that ate away at her. Like, that still ate away at her. I think there were still reservations for her about, like, really being sober and, like, living life that way. And so you know, just in reference point of like where my values around mentorship come in. The woman who mentored her when she was trying to kind of get her life together is the woman that I really credit with saving my life. It was that the woman I reached out to was the same woman that had really been mentoring her, and that woman was the one who really mentored me through this insane process of getting my life back and like really changing who I was. And so that for me was, I think, the greatest imprint of really showing me the power of mentorship. And the power of just two humans being able to collaborate and the power of service and supporting one another. Like, that woman just held a standard for me that completely interrupted all of my nonsense and all of my BS that I was able to manipulate everybody else with. But because she understood me, I didn't have a choice anymore, right? Like, if I really want— like, was serious about doing the work, I couldn't— I couldn't bring all of that to her. Like, she was just not going to stand for it with me. And that was really the That was just experiencing somebody else's embodiment that really put the interruption in who I was that was necessary for me to change. And the thing that really brought me to the point of choosing to get sober was when I couldn't stop getting high, but the drugs stopped working. And that was an intersection of, like, terror that I cannot even explain. And I was too scared to take my own life, but I knew I couldn't live like that. And I was— it was this intersection where I was like, this doesn't work anymore. And the more and more and more I was attempting to make things work, right? And like joking about like horse tranquilizers and, you know, the concoctions. Like I often say, like, I'm an equal opportunity junk bag. Like you put a solid, liquid, or gas in front of me, the answer is yes. And so I knew that I was really playing Russian roulette with my life. And so that kind of, uh, like I was at this fork in the road, right? Which was like, keep going and things are gonna like get worse, I'm probably gonna die. Um, and then the other fork was like, I need to figure something out here. And the option was us to, to really ask for help. And so, you know, I want to say like, like the decisions we make to change like have to be followed by the action to get the support that we need. And there, you know, I think that like really the principle that got me there was like having the humility, like having the humility to be able to humble myself enough to say I need somebody else to teach me this, you know. And so I would even say that like it's been like the greatest foundation of even what's just been transferred into to what I do within my business as a whole has been really the humility to be able to ask for help and really having a level respect for the power in mentorship and what that can do when you really hold a standard to help somebody else, like, disrupt, like, an identity that isn't serving them, to really help support and guide them into a completely different life.

Yeah, I love that so much. And I'm sure that that woman had a huge impact on your life and your sobriety, but also on the way that you viewed mentorship. And I know that the way that you show up for mentoring your clients in business and in life and their own transformations is in that similar way of kind of, you know, no bullshit can really like cross my doorstep. Like, I'm gonna be able to see you in your patterns, in your excuses, in your disembodiment. Like, I'm gonna be able to see that, and together we're going to be able to address it. So it is kind of like there's an intimidation of like, oh, like, you know, Vic's gonna know like why I'm not doing this thing or why I'm not showing up the way that I want to. But also at the same time, like, it's a safe space because you understand on a deep level why, and then you're able to help people transmute that. With obviously, you know, shadow work is a huge part of your journey, it's a huge part of your work, you advocate for it all the time. What, what did that look like for you in your personal transformation and also in, like, getting your shit together in business?

When I first got sober, the, you know, kind of the process that I went through with this woman— my experience with her was over the course of 150 hours, pretty much spread over 10 months. And this woman had me look at my whole life, like, all of my resentments, all of my fears, all of my relationships, all the harms that I had caused people, to really understand that I'm the common denominator in my experience. And that if I'm the common denominator, then there is a power there for me to be able to take back. But it was really grounded on the principles of self-responsibility and self-honesty. And so in her showing me that I am the pattern, right, like in all these relationships and circumstances, I'm able to then interrupt that, right, with my decisions, with the way that I choose to respond, right? And like my responsibility in every circumstance that I'm in, no matter how uncomfortable it is, no matter what it is, like, I get to choose who I am in every minute. And I'm not just responding based on the charge of emotion I feel in the moment, right? I don't get to just operate from this, like, righteous indignation. And so she really took me through a shadow work process. And the way that that showed up for me in business, which was really, you know, fascinating, was when I first started my business, there were these really interesting overlaps where I realized that the same feeling, for instance, that I would have when I was waiting for like a client to answer me in the DMs was the same feeling that I had when an ex-boyfriend would stop answering me or give me the silent treatment, right? In like a really codependent experience or relationship. I realized that the same panic that I felt when money wasn't coming in was the same way I felt felt when I wasn't getting responded to in a certain relationship, or I wasn't getting what I want. And so I started to see, you know, a lot of my core wounding come up, right? Like rejection, abandonment stuff, the scarcity stuff, my codependency come up. And then I started to see where the way that I would respond or speak to people was attempting to manipulate or influence them, was attempting to kind of posture. And I was like, whoa, like, this is really interesting, like what I'm doing here. With people and with money and through content is all the same survival-y patterns and behaviors that I was doing, you know, like prior to getting sober and really like in a lot of my core relationships. And so when I was able to see that overlap and I was able to see that this was not a matter of sobriety, this was a matter of understanding that business is a relationship. And so all of those weird, funky relational dynamics that I had in other places with people. It was, it was this overlap that was now transferring over to the way that I was dealing with clients and, you know, an audience and with money. And I knew that in order for me to really have an embodied business, in order for me to really be in integrity with myself, like, these were going to be things that, although I had already, you know, done the work, there was a different layer here that was being expressed and exposed. And what it was really showing me was that the same way I didn't feel safe in a lot of relationships in the past, I wasn't feeling safe my business. And so I, I went through like a whole process of really understanding what it meant to create like a secure place for me to be able to show up in my business so that my, my business and my clients and my audience weren't receiving like this really disembodied manipulative version of me.

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Wow. I think like what I love about the way that you talk about this is is the radical honesty that comes through because so many people are lacking that, of really being able to see maybe some of the ways that they are showing up in business as dishonest or out of integrity or manipulative, right? And that's what happens when we don't feel safe and we feel that scarcity coming up. You have said that the easiest way to sabotage your success is to settle for the, the identity that you're embodying now. So obviously we're talking about, you know, being an embodiment of your work and being in integrity, and identity is a huge piece of that. So I'd love to kind of talk about that a little bit of, you know, it's not, oh, how can I, how can I get them to buy and how can I make this happen? But really it's more, you know, who would I need to be in order for this to just be the automatic response that life is giving me? Because life is responding to who I'm being, right? So talk to me about this, this concept of like identity work and actually being the version of yourself that you need to be in order for you to get the results that you're seeking rather than showing up in those kind of like weird, dishonest, or manipulative ways of trying to get people to treat you in a certain way or buy from you or whatever that is.

For sure. You know what's really interesting, right, is like, this was something that I didn't like even understand when I first started my business. Like, I didn't get the identity thing. I got the pattern thing. I got the shadow thing. Like, I understood the safety factor and the nervous system. Like, I understood that. But the thing about identity for me was recognizing that there was a difference between trying to make something happen versus being somebody that would just naturally have that experience. And my kind of, how would I say this? Like my, the trajectory that my business took was so wild that it was a really revealing process for me around identity. You know, the first year in business, I went through this really kind of bumpy ride, like, right? Like failed launches, $0 months, like not making any money. And then having to learn how to be a businesswoman, how to have, learning to run the actual business, which is another conversation I could go on forever about, right? But what I, like what happened was I, I really doubled down with prioritizing learning to run a business versus making money. And once I did that, the growth happened so fast that it kind of blew me away. And I went from this $14,000 year in my first year to this $300,000+ year in my second year. And what was so important to just highlight in this was like, I was the person who, yes, got, like, I got these results, but there wasn't like a clear identity shift where like I was the person who could maintain that. And there was a level of like— I don't want to say like, like imposter syndrome almost, but it was almost like I felt like I was living someone else's reality. And I was. I was living the reality of somebody else. I had not really taken ownership, um, in identity over. And so what happened after that year was I slowly started to sabotage the growth. I slowly started to really let my ego kind of infiltrate that experience. I started to find the ways to not become the person who would maintain those results. And so as— so because of that, you know, my business dipped into, into 2023. And what was so important about that that I want to say was, one, I'm so grateful that it happened when it did and it didn't happen later on in my business because I, I want to be corrected, right? Like, I want to be corrected when something's misaligned. Mind. But the other part of it was that it really gave me the process I needed to really deeply understand this concept of identity. And, you know, 2023 was just a crazy year. I was like estranged from speaking to, to one of my parents. I, I fell down a flight of stairs, I broke my ankle, I had two surgeries, I wasn't able to be outside. I didn't have a lot of like connections or friends like in person during that time. And I'm still running and maintaining a business that's still generating over 6 figures. Like, I'm still doing the things, right? But there was a shift where, you know, I, I kind of had to say to myself at some point, who do I need to become to make sure that like this all stays afloat? Like, like, who do I need to be? Because what do I need to do? Like, I already knew how to run the business, but the thing about identity for me was really understanding was going to be the ease with which I did it. Like, a lot of the concepts I believe about ease is, is really, are you somebody that needs it to be hard? And so identity for me is something that is built as a result of the self-concept that you condition. And your self-concept is your thoughts, uh, your feelings, your beliefs about yourself, and essentially like an idealized version of you. And so when I talk about shadow work, what I'm really talking about is the process of self-exploration to start to acknowledge the parts of you that your ego has decided is not part of its ideal self- concept, right? And so there's like this kind of rejection there. And when that happens, it's, it's like we become blind to ourselves. And so identity for me is really who I am on both ends of that spectrum. It's both who I might be consciously, but it's also who I am with the patterns that are conditioning certain beliefs that I have about what is and isn't acceptable about me, right? What is and is not good about me, like whatever that, whatever that might look like. Also, what I would even bring into that is like, it's my beliefs about out how powerful I'm allowed to be, how smart I'm allowed to be, how impactful I'm allowed to be. And one of the things that I would say that I recognized was that in that growth within my business, I did not feel safe as being a powerful person. I didn't feel safe as being a successful person. And something I even realized from my journey, even with money around that, was like money felt really karmic for me, you know. As an addict, money was the resource that I used to essentially like kill myself slowly, and then it became this now resource that I'm using to drive this principle and value of vitality. And so the, the spectrum that I experienced with money hadn't fully adopted a different identity that could also really honor that, that transformation, right? And like honor that transition. And so there was so many factors of identity and, and of self and of my own perception of me that was challenged, right? It was challenged. And the quickest way to, to right sabotage is absolutely to like continue to live within an identity. But if you're not willing to see the identity that you're actually operating from, there's a 0% chance that you're also going to be able to sustain something different because you're never going to outwork your identity. You're never going to like sustained success that your identity will not allow. And that was really my experience. Like, that was really the experience I had. It was like I needed to protect who I thought I was, and so I saw that success as a threat. And in order to not see my success as a threat, I had to change who I was to not hold it, because the holding things is like exhausting, but to really embody the person who would naturally be able to sustain and then scale that success.

Mhm, mhm. Yeah, so good what you said about like, it's not just, oh, let me come up with this idea of what my next identity is and step into that. You can't do that until you are actually willing to be super radically honest with yourself about what is the current identity, right? And I, I say this all the time, I talk about like, your subconscious will never make you a liar. And I think that's exactly what you're saying with like, you can never outwork your identity, which is like, you can try as hard as you want, but at the end of the day, those subconscious beliefs beliefs, that identity that you— that you're holding on some level is going to be the thing that dictates how you show up, how you act, how you, uh, progress or self-sabotage. Like, that's, that's the, like, the thermostat. That's like controlling, you know, where we're actually gonna get to. And you brought money into that, so I want to kind of expand on that as well, because you kind of talk about money being this mirror of your identity. And obviously there was such a contrast past with the, you know, your identity in the past as an addict and what that looked like with money versus then stepping into being, you know, a multi-six-figure business owner and that having to be a mirror of your identity. What was like, what do you see happening with your clients and even within yourself when it comes to money and adopting a new identity? Because I think there's a lot of people that want to believe like, oh, we can just, you know, if I just act like this person, then I'll receive those results. But what we're— what you're really talking about here is yes, and you also have to be willing to recognize what's happening for you now and who you're being now and the identity that you're embodying now. So what is that journey gonna look like for someone who's like, okay, over this money story, over this current version of myself, want a new identity, I want to attract more money, I want to hold more money, I want to keep more money, what do I need to do? What do I need to look at? What do I need to change?

Yeah, so I love this. And the first thing that I will say about money is that it's never about the money. Money is just a mirror. Money is just a teacher. And most people look at money as a replacement for security and a replacement for love. And so money is going to amplify the projection of all your unmet emotional needs. Money's just going to show you where you're not not saving yourself, where you're waiting to be saved, where you feel insecure, where you're feeling disconnected, right? Like, that's been the story that I have experienced 10 times over. You know, my first kind of multi-five-figure month was a $40,000 month in the beginning of 2022, and I had just made more money than I had ever made in my life, like, prior to entrepreneurship, like, when I was, you know, working and, you know, for somebody else. I'd never— I probably never made more than like $30,000 a year working in retail or something, right? And what was crazy was when I had this, this, you know, high cash month, I'd never felt more scarcity in my life because I had so many emotional expectations and projections that I placed on money. I thought I was gonna feel a certain way and money was disappointing. And I would also go as far as to say, right, the codependence in me, the codependency in me was always disappointed by people. I always felt emotionally unfulfilled. I always had higher hopes of how somebody was gonna make me feel and then left to feel disappointed. And so money just showed me really like what my emotional expectations were with, with, with people and with relationship. And so the scarcity that I felt actually really was a mirror for me of like the intimacy that I didn't have the ability to connect with. It was this mirror for me about how I had placed my experience of safety and security on things outside of myself, and how I had a really distorted relationship with the idea of security, because I was looking at the experience of money essentially like through this lens of this was going to solve all these problems, right? And, and I often think of it as if money were a human, like, that would be like the biggest red— like, we would be the biggest red flag in relationship with money. And all of these expectations and needs of like what it's going to do for me, how it's going to take care of me. And so when I started looking at money as this mirror, and I was like, oh, like money is really just like a tour guide here in this evolution, like money is reflecting who I am, it's amplifying who I am. And so, you know, if I was somebody experienced like kind of a deficit in my own identity, that was just reflected in the scarcity I felt as I made more money. And so when I was feeling a level of insecurity with myself, that was just reflected in the more money that I made, that it still wasn't enough, right? In the moments that I felt like I needed to be saved or taken care of, it was reflected in the way that I needed more money to come in and take care of me. And so money was really just a placeholder, and business Business is a placeholder for a lot of people to project their unmet emotional needs because they don't have the tools, they don't have the awareness, and they don't know how to access the vulnerability to get that met either by themselves or by the primary relationships in their life. And it is the reason that so many entrepreneurs end up in this kind of cyclical experience where they're not able to like break out of things and make the business about other people because there's there is so much that is still unmet in them that it becomes this place for them to just play out all their shadows and play out all their weird relational dynamics. And it almost becomes like this secret because business is just you with you. There's nobody else there. And so that was the big turning point for me, was like there was no other human there to, to, to show me or mirror my dysfunction. I was like, oh, like this is my dysfunction with me. This is the common denominator that I recognized when I went through that process in sobriety, business was like, hello darkness, my old friend, like you're doing it again. You're still doing it. You're still in that identity. And so recognizing that for me was really yet again another fork in the road. Was I gonna continue to do this or was this something I was gonna clean up? And that really just came into like a different standard of integrity and embodiment and leadership of like how many times am I willing to complain about the same things, have the same conversations, until I just become the person who embodies the shift when I see exactly what needs to be changed. And that was the— I would say the transition between acknowledging the need for there to be a new identity and actually making sure that that change, that transfiguration, was now in motion. And it wasn't just something I was talking about, it was actually something I was bringing into embodiment.

Yeah, I love that so much. Much. Was there anything that you did, like, how did you start to meet your own emotional needs or access that vulnerability or create safety within yourself or within your primary relationship so that you weren't, uh, relying on your business to kind of fill those holes?

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Hmm. Business kind of puts you in a chokehold, throws you up against the wall and is like, listen, you're either gonna clean this up or we're gonna play this out until you do. Um, and so I would say that I wanted not the success, but like I wanted the total experience of feeling my potential in business. And so it wasn't so much of, again, like I was motivated, but it was I was, I was willing. I was just willing to do this work. And so, you know, the other kind of factor of my business that's been really centralized as the game changer for me was around nervous system work. And I think that nervous system work has gotten really glorified within this industry in the past probably year or two. And I think that it's amazing that people are talking about it, but I think there was a huge huge factor that people were missing is like the game of nervous system work is like get your body out of survival so that you can then take yourself outside of your comfort zone in order to build more resiliency, more flexibility in your ability to meet stressful situations. Yes, but also to stretch yourself. And so business was such a big stretch, like coming from being like, you know, an addict to then being like somebody who had had like something actually worthwhile to say. Like I had skills and I had tools and I had experience that I had embodied that was like not only worth saying, but like worth being compensated for. And that felt very out of my comfort zone. And so when I first started my business, I was right one of those entrepreneurs that I think a lot of us have been, right? Where we come up against these moments where I'm like, I have one foot on the gas and one foot on the brake. And I was kind of operating in this like freeze state where I had all of these ideas, all these things I wanted to do, but I couldn't get it out of my head and, and into action. I knew what to do, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Like, I was experiencing a lot of this internal tug-of-war, and that was the first thing that, that really blew me away was when I understood nervous system regulation and I understood that from an internal perspective I perceived my business as a threat threat. I perceived my success as a threat. I perceived like my hopes and my dreams and my goals as some sort of threat. And so I was essentially sabotaging, freezing, um, to protect myself. Like, as much as clarity, I believe, is like a strategy in business— it's like one of the most important factors— like, your mind will literally leave you in a place where you perceive confusion in order to protect you from actually getting it right, because it's, it's nervous about what's going to happen moving forward. And So what I, what I learned about that for myself was I needed to be willing to give myself reassurance every step of the way. And that what I have found for so many entrepreneurs is that they have this, uh, they have this fear, they have this anticipation, I believe, as well, at times, where they think that because they want something, that's going to be enough to get them to and so they override themselves, they override their fears, they don't validate the moments that they're incredibly nervous, the moments that they need to be brave or courageous. And so they really treat entrepreneurship as this thing of like, when I get there, I'll be able to rest. When I get there, I can be proud of myself. When I get there, I'll be able to celebrate. When I get there, I'll be able to, to take it easier on myself. And what I learned was that I needed to be doing that every single step of the way. I needed to be so present and so in tuned to what I was thinking and feeling, what my body was experiencing, when I needed to rest, and not overriding that, you know, not overriding it in the name of ambition, and not allowing myself to bypass a lot of the things that would have been more simple to just pretend like it wasn't happening. Like whether that be the fear, whether that be the moments that I was, you know, scapegoating shame because I didn't want to be responsible for something something, right? There was this total responsibility for myself. And the way I talk about this to people often is like, there is, there is, there's a woman you're raising inside of you, and she needs you to have her back so fearlessly, like, and so fiercely in everything you do, because there is nobody else that's going to be out here cheerleading you. Nobody else is going to be up and understanding what it is to like run and operate an entire company and the learning curve that comes with that and the level level of self-determination and self-efficacy. And you need to be willing to, to, to show up for that part of you and to show up for the woman that you're raising as this entrepreneur, as this CEO, where you take her seriously and you take her concerns seriously and you take her feelings seriously. And so it was really learning to build like a healthy relationship with myself where I wasn't needing money or people to validate me. I could do that for myself. And in my other relationships, it was learning to articulate what I needed in order to feel supported so that I would be able to be fully present in my business when I was. And that when I wasn't in my business, I could still have this like semblance of normality where I could just go back to being Vic, and I could just go back to being, you know, my, my partner's fiancée. I could just go back to being a daughter. Like, I had to learn to set the boundaries that my success was not available available to support people around me, right? Like that my success was not there to, uh, take care of people, that I was not doing emotional labor in other relationships. I was really asking for there to be reciprocity because it's what I need to be a well-resourced woman so that I can sustain this business and the responsibility that I have to the people that I hire, to the clients that I serve, to a community that has expectations of me. And with— and not from a place of pressure, but right, but like really from a place of leadership. And I needed to feel safe with myself in order for people to feel safe with me. And that is, I believe, a responsibility of leadership that's not just about the self-leadership, but it's understanding the influence that you have over people and understanding that people are looking to you to be like this kind of unwavering pillar in moments of chaos. Especially that I serve and support people in their businesses, especially because I do a level of intense work with people. I need to be so clear that I feel safe with myself so that I'm not projecting all of that onto my clients, so that in the moments my clients have some insecurity, I don't need to swoop in to be their savior, but I actually can hold the space of potential for them to come and, and meet me in that, right? That I'm not not allowing other people's instability to have me wobble in my power. And that, that's really the, the precedence that I'm holding because it's what I'm trying to model for somebody else. And so the safety with myself was really just an automatic value of integrity that needed to be embodied in order for me to even be able to feel qualified to support people the way that I do. And so it just was, it was a thing where that shift in identity You know, it didn't need to be a big deal. It didn't need to be a long process. It was like, this feels like a no-brainer. Like, this is the responsibility, this is the job, and this is what it requires, and that's who I get to become. And I think there's a level of intensity in that, but because I have that level of safety with myself, meeting my emotional needs, knowing when I need something, knowing when I need a rest, when I need to have my own little tantrum, I can coach myself through that. I don't make it other people's people's problems, but even more so is that inside of those values and inside of that experience is why I can have a level of intensity and depth with my clients, because they know it's a safe container where there's also a lot of love and a lot of levity and a lot of play, and we can have fun and we can experience ourselves and each other in a way where, you know, the big thing that my clients say is like, you create a really safe place for me to be incredibly fucked up and, and did not be a big deal. Deal. Like, I could just come to you and like, I could just be like a total spiraling, like, like kind of piece of shit at times, and like realizing these like really kind of like distorted parts of myself. And you just make that so normal and not a big deal. There's no reactivity to it. And so for me, it's like there's nothing I'm not willing to see in myself. And so there's nothing somebody's gonna bring me that's too big or too much. And I think that that's also what's made me the mentor that I am, is that I can model that safety for other people. And it— for me, it's it just is that ripple effect of supporting other women and creating incredibly safe businesses for themselves so that they can do the same for the people that they're serving through their work and their medicine and their message.

Yeah, I love that.

We had a— I had my mastermind clients here recently for a weekend and we were talking about emotions and there was a breathwork journey. And one of my clients who was guiding the breathwork kept saying, you know, it's not weird, it's not weird. Like, it's not weird to have these emotions. It's not weird to express yourself. It's not weird to cry. It's not weird to shout. Like, and I think that's kind of what you're describing here, is people can come to you and they can actually feel safe enough to do the shadow work and see the shadows, see the negative patterns that are perpetuating, because they know that with you and in your space, it's not going to be seen as weird. And I think a lot of times some of our biggest block is like thinking that we have a block, or being like, oh, this part of me like it's so like, oof, you know, so bad, so big, so wrong.

So, and then we almost amplify that by being like, this is, this is my problem, or I have this big problem.

And so sometimes the block is really just thinking that you have a block, and can you actually just meet that with neutrality?

Unquestionably. I think the only block that really exists in people is a really low tolerance to be honest. I think that really honesty is the— like, honesty is really the only block that I think people have, because if you're honest with it and you can see it, then you can take ownership of it and you can shift it. You could change change it. And I really believe that it gets to be that simple. And I think that people really complicate the process of integrating new behaviors, integrating a new identity, when in reality what it is is get honest, take responsibility for it, choose a new behavior, and go and act like it. That's it. It's literally that simple. And I think that people want to complicate the integration of things where they want to be infantilized and they want to be coddled in it and they want to make this big production and people need to spiral out because they realize this, you know, part of themselves has existed and they need to go and run away and hide in the shame. And it's like, if you just allowed it to all be not a big deal, none of it would need to be a big deal.

And I finally got a lot of those things for myself.

It was—

what are we getting from that? Like, of being like, oh, you know, I want people to— I want people to, you know, like, I want people to coddle me or hold me through this, or like, oh my gosh, you know, I have this thing that I can't stop doing and it's this big problem. Like, obviously there's a secondary gain. What are we getting from that?

There's such a huge secondary gain. So the way that I think about this is really that people that are still operating in a lot of these kind of like shadowy kind of identities and these kind of more— it's right, like, it's, it's essentially like a survival identity. Like, that's how you think you need to behave to get your needs met. And so when we are found out, when the ego is like found out, like, oh, like, you're, you know, over here trying to posture in your business, you're trying to influence people, uh, or lead them to believe that you are acting a certain way, right? Like, when that gets exposed and we spiral out with like shame, what it is is like the ego doesn't want to be found out. And so we do this performative thing. We do this performative thing because we need to go lick our wounds. And it's easier for people to spiral out, um, and kind of bring that kind of like— it's almost as if it's like this performative piece where it's like you're victimizing victimized by yourself, and then people need to take care of you, and it's like, oh, it's okay. And what happens there is like, we normalize— we normalize so much of this behavior for people, right? We normalize the people-pleasing despite the fact that it's manipulative, right? We normalize— and I think this is also where people have like a strong glorification of trauma, and people need to be validated, and people need to be seen, and people need to be heard, and people need to be, right, like kind of held in community to be expressed and exposed and witnessed in all these things. And, you know, I think for some people this may sound— oh, what's the word I want to say here— it may sound insensitive. But what we have to understand is that, like, on a real level, like, it is really— it's, it's a, it's a culture of self-obsession. It's like, I'm so obsessed with myself that I need all of you to see how I did this terrible thing. Because the thing is, like, if you were the only person that existed on planet, you wouldn't need to feel shame. So shame requires other people in order to exist. Shame is something we do to make shadowy behavior more socially acceptable, because instead of being like, yeah, you know, like, I manipulate people, yeah, I have a power dynamic where I only feel good when I'm the most powerful person in the room, yeah, when I don't get my way, I start to bully people in my client, and I start to bully people in my content, right? It's like I start to talk down to other people because it's the only way I know how to feel good about myself. Instead of people saying like, yeah, I actually have this weird shadowy dynamic, it's like, I feel so much shame that it's now been revealed to me that like I've done this weird codependent, disempowered, disembodied thing. Like, here, let me like kind of connect with people through that, right? Or feeling shame and wanting to cover it up rather than just owning it, you know? And I talk about this a lot of, you know, us needing to kind of hide behind that is part of the same experience where people believe that like the only way to connect with people is essentially is through their pain, and it's through inadequacy. You know, it's way more vulnerable to be successful and to be honest and to be radically responsible. And I think it's one of the reasons why I can feel like I'm being spicy with people at times. And the thing is, like, I'm, I'm really not spicy. I'm really just calling it as I see it. And I don't think of that as being spicy. I think that people just have a really low tolerance for being in acceptance of the full spectrum of humanity. Humanity. Yeah, honesty and like just the full spectrum of humanity, right? It's like we have this binary good, bad, right, and wrong, and people just want to be seen in this one perspective. And I think this is also, you know, I'll just kind of sum this piece up with like, right, like the, the shadow and the light, the dark and the light. And I, you know, one thing my first mentor said to me was, you know, Vic, there's no such thing as darkness, there's only the absence of light. And the thing about the light is that you have two options. It's either going to be there to illuminate something, or it's going to be there to blind you. If you have— if you have your back to the dark, right, and you're looking at the light, you're looking dead into the sun, it's gonna blind you. It's gonna completely blind you. But what happens the second you turn your back to the light is when it casts a shadow, and then that shadow is illuminated, and then you can see something. And so people's relationship with that and the benefit that we get is like, we're just in the light, like, oh, I can't believe I have done this, right? It's like this, like, big drama, and it's like, all right, like, go be blind. It's like, or you could just turn around and allow what's illuminated to be there. And that's what creates the distraction. That's where people get stuck. That's what takes people sometimes a lifetime to actually just allow themselves to transcend certain behaviors. And it's why people do not shift out of the identity that they need to in order to really build the success they want in their business.

Yeah, they're unwilling to turn around and see that shadow and then have— be able to actually really make change, because you can't make change when you're, when you're blind, when you, when you're, you know, yeah, when you're ignorant to what's actually happening and the patterns that you're playing out and who you're being and how you're operating. I want to highlight, underscore, bold the thing that you said about joy, because I'll never forget one time you was probably casually in a story, and I was just like, oh, that changed my life, no big deal, of you saying that joy is the most vulnerable emotion. And that's kind of exactly what you were talking about, like, you know, success, joy, celebration— being in that is way more vulnerable than trying to connect through pain or insecurity. Because when you share your pain, when you share your insecurity, when you're like, oh, this— people always meet you with love and, I hope you're okay, and thank you for sharing this, and that has really helped me, and I've been there. And, you know, there's a lot of camaraderie with the negativity and the pain and all of that. But joy pisses people off. When you share joy and you're like, my marriage is amazing, my relationship is super happy, like, I have great friends, like, I don't have drama in my life, I'm making great money, like, this is amazing— like, that pisses people off. And so that makes joy really, really vulnerable. And I think there are a lot of people that are hiding, suppressing, diluting, watering down their joy and their expression because of that fear of like, it's not gonna be well received because I feel bad that everybody else doesn't feel as good as me. Or I'm just aware of the fact that, and, and we have a societal expectation of that too, of like, well, that's considered bragging and that's not classy. And it's just this whole, this whole big thing. But I just wanted to highlight that joy is a super vulnerable emotion, which is why we're not expressing it nearly enough.

The most. And I think that that's right part of that secondary gain in some ways, is that the common denominator that every human on the planet has in common is pain. Everybody has experienced some degree of pain or suffering. It's why our brains are wired to see and seek out fear and problems. It's why we have a survival— you have a survival brain. You don't have a thriving brain, right? Like a vitality brain. You have a survival And so we are programmed to connect through pain and fear. And so joy is the thing that starts to separate us. And it's one of the reasons that also we will choose to go into those spirals, because imagine just being able to see a certain element of your identity or your— that you're embodying, that other people will spend a lifetime pretending like they don't know what to do about it, and you were to just come along and be like, oh yeah, I see that in myself, like totally aware of this now, I'm gonna immediately change that behavior in total love, reverence, respect, and neutrality towards myself, people would lose their damn minds. And then being able to be joyful in the face of your inadequacy— I'm an incredibly inadequate human in so many ways. I'm joyful as hell. I think I'm fucking fantastic. But it was also— it— but it's because I do not have judgment my human expression and experience, I have an infinite amount of grace, right? And I think that that is something even just on a spiritual level, I'll say, is like, there is nothing I will ever do that God will ever turn his back on me. Nothing. So why do I get to be more powerful than God in turning my back on myself? And that's where you start playing God in your life. And that's where you start blocking your blessings. And so when you cannot be honest enough to say that there is nothing that I do that is somehow unworthy of my own love or my own grace, if I cannot give myself that love, that forgiveness, that kindness, guess where I'm gonna start projecting that emotional need? On the money, on the business, on the clients, on the people. And so when I really learned to like, and like that's the ultimate mentor right there, right? Is like a relationship to something greater than ourselves. And for me, it's not necessarily in a religious sense, but when I'm able to understand that like the way that I was intended to live I was like in a state of joy, in a state of bliss, in a state of happiness. I'm meant to be successful and resourced and abundant because how else am I supposed to like help people? Like, how else am I supposed to make a difference? And if our existence, like life on this planet, is not about in some way being of service, right? You know, the, the thing that my first mentor told me when I got, when I got sober, she said, Vic, you were saved to serve. And it was that simple me. And so my, my job in sobriety, my job in business is like, they're both not about me. Sobriety is like, get sober, help other people. Business is like, figure your shit out, help other people. That's it. And so when I'm able to stay like in that frame of mind, the work on myself is not an inconvenience. It's not something that happens in seasons. It's not to get some sort of gain. I'm not doing this work to build my capacity or to regulate my nervous system to make money and see my shadows so that I can build more success. It's so that I can protect other people from me because I know who I can be. And so in order for me to really care about other people, right, and like, right, like, Godly— like, the way I believe care is like, it's the provision of what's necessary to make sure that, like, the welfare, the maintenance of something. And so to really care about people is like, I I need to care for myself first so I'm not making other people responsible for that, so I can actually show up and say like, how can I serve you? How can I support you? How can I help you? How can I contribute something? And that's the cornerstone of success. And I get joy out of doing that because I get joy out of doing it for me first. And so it's a ripple effect of that. And that's vulnerable because we are conditioned in society, we are conditioned culturally to always be in a state of pain, suffering, and codependency, where we're waiting for someone, something to save us, right? It's like the lottery is the perfect example of it. Everybody's just waiting to like have this Mega Millions come through and, right, like save you. The money's gonna change it. But what happens? People win the lottery and they can't hold it. They're broker than they were a few years later, right? And that's the same thing in business. It's like when we don't do that work to illuminate what it is that has us disconnected from ourself, from our essence, from our, like, the purity of heart, from a higher power, from service, from other people. Because that's what I was running from, an addiction too, right? I'll run from that in business. I'll just run after money and disguise it as something different. And so when I do that work, I'm a clear channel, I'm a clear path, and I can really show up, and I can really actually serve, and I can really be useful to people. And in that, I get to not be motivated by the milestones, but use those things as like, right, like Ed Mylett talks about this. I, I love Ed Mylett, right? And he talks about like, my goals are just markers that I'm headed in the right direction. And he's like, I'm not motivated by those things. He said, my motivation is to see who I get to become in this lifetime. That's it. I like, my biggest motivation, period, is like, I just want to see what I'm capable of, and I want to see how many people I can help in that process. And so there's a disconnect from needing things to happen, which just— that detachment creates availability for anything. And I believe that in that, like, the cure to scarcity is service. Go help people, go give more away for free. Like, what are you holding back? Like, if you're in business for your own selfishness and there is not an equal balance of service, you're going to have a terrible time doing this work, right? Um, so I believe that, like, when you prioritize building your capacity and tolerance for joy way, you're going to have a, an impact that is just insurmountable to anything else.

So good, so good. I was getting goosebumps through all that, which is how I know it's like spirit speaking through someone. That always happens when it's like a channeled message. I like get the— I get the goosebumps. I love that so much. I love you. You're so amazing. You are such a fucking sage, and you were saved to serve. And I'm— I feel so grateful that, you know, our paths cross and I get to witness you and be part of your world, and it's just such an honor. You are incredible, and thank you so much for sharing everything with our audience today. That last piece about spirituality, again, underline, bold, highlight. Like, I, I refuse to teach strategy in business without spirituality for that exact reason, because when it's all about the external and the money and how do I get this to, to have these things for ourself, we lose the plot. And there has to be that, that element that there's a larger purpose to all of this. So thank you so much, Vic. You're incredible. Let everyone know where they can find you. Shout out your handle on Instagram. I'll tag everything in the show notes below. If you guys don't follow Vic already, you're going to want to, obviously. Did you just hear this episode? So let them know where they can connect with you.

Awesome. I love you too. I thank you. It's really been excellent to be here with you and with your I hope that people get something from this, even if it's one thing. That's, that's my ultimate goal. You can find me on Instagram at @ofrootandbranch. Um, and that's where you can find me for all the things. Come say hi, come connect. I would love to just welcome you into my world.

All right, you guys, we will link everything in the show notes. If you loved this episode and you have someone in your life who you think would also enjoy it, copy the link, send it to a friend, let them know you were thinking of them, or take a screenshot, share to your Instagram stories, tag Vic and I so we can see that you're loving the episode. And we can connect with you.

Tell Vic what you loved about this conversation. If this moved you in some way, if you got the goosebumps like I did, send her a message and let her know.

Thank you guys so much for listening, and we will talk to you soon.

Bye!