Niching is Dead: The Dark Side of 250K Followers & How to Grow Sustainably in 2025 w/ Autumn Denae

Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shit happen. Welcome to the show, Autumn. I'm so excited that you're here. This is so much fun. I miss you. We haven't chatted in a little while, so I'm happy to bring you on the show and share you with everyone. Um, how are you? I'm so excited that you're here.

I'm good, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to finally get to chat again. Yes.

Okay, so there's so many things that I feel like we could unpack and talk about as it relates to your journey, content creation. I really want to talk to you— we'll get into this— but I really want to talk to you about something that you shared recently, which I was like, oh my gosh, that is such an interesting way to think about it, and it's so real. Like, the difference between identifying yourself as like a business owner who creates content for their business versus like identifying as a content creator who like maybe also has a business. So I kind of want to talk about like the different identities because I feel like you've lived both of those realms, like, at different times, and, and what that's kind of looked like. But I, I want to kind of go back a little bit and give some backstory for everyone who's tuning in, because you initially, like, started on social media by blowing up on TikTok as a fitness influencer. You're obviously doing much different stuff now, but yeah, can you give some, like, backstory of, like, how you broke into the online space and what you were doing how it happened, and also like the best and worst parts of like going viral and like amassing a huge audience of like hundreds of thousands of followers like pretty quickly.

Yeah, so it's such a wild story. I always say that I accidentally manifested my platform because I feel like I truly did. When I first started out on social media and with TikTok, I was mostly just posting for fun and to like share my own journey. I had gone through a really big, like, rock bottom season in 2020 and then comeback season 2021. And so then I started sharing that journey of, like, rebuilding myself. Like, I was on a massive weight loss journey. And so I really just started posting because I saw other people sharing and I wanted to make a similar impact in the same way that my favorite creators had impacted me. So I was just, like, posting for fun and just to share. And then I had seen, like, a couple people, um, like fitness influencers, and they were working with brands, and they were going on these trips, and they were making a whole bunch of money. And I was like, I could do that. And so I set my goal to be like 20,000 followers. I started studying the algorithm, and I was posting like 5 to 7 times a day. I was doing all the things. I was like, I'm going to manifest this 20,000 followers. And lo and behold, at the end of 2021, it was like a 3-week period where I went from having 900 followers to 250,000 in like that 3 weeks. In 3 weeks?

You're joking.

Yeah, it was literally like a quantum leap type situation. And like I said, my goal was 20,000. So you can imagine how much I was shitting myself when I saw that initial jump. I literally had a panic attack. I remember the day that I jumped from like maybe like 10,000 and I woke up the next morning. My brother woke me up actually. He was like, do you see your social media right now? Do you see your TikTok? And it was at like 50K and I full on meltdown mode. So that's how it— that's how it started.

Oh my God, because that was the era where like it was a lot easier to grow on TikTok, and it was just like as long as you were like posting consistently and being niche and multiple times a day or whatever, like people were just popping off. But that's crazy, it's like in 3 weeks to go from 900, you said, to over 250,000. Did you feel like it was fake at any point? Were you like watching the numbers being like, this feels like Monopoly? You know, when you're like, I don't know, I feel like people, like sometimes that happens when they make a lot of money and they're like, the money doesn't feel real. Did it feel like they weren't real people following you?

Yeah, it's like you just see, you, you open your app and there's this notification and it says like, uh, like 1,000 likes and then 2,000 people followed you. And I'm like, it's like this little, this little like icon, man. It's it feels like they're not real people, but then you go to your comment section and they're real fucking people. So yeah, it didn't feel real.

Was that like— was it like initially obviously shocking, but was it also really exciting? But also like when you get that many followers, like the larger net that you cast, the more wide variety of people that are going to be seeing your stuff. And whenever something, you know, if you have a smaller account, whenever something goes like viral for you or whatever, we've probably all had that experience where you're like, oh, this has reached people that don't know who I am, they don't know me, they don't view me as a real person? Because that's when you start getting a lot of like the really wild, unhinged, like hate comments, or just like really mean people in your, in your comment section. And you're like, okay, so I know that this has reached like the public now, the, the wild boars out there running around in the world just fucking bullying people on the internet. But was it immediately like Did you feel that, that there was like hate and stuff in the comments, or was it fine for a while and then you kind of started to feel the effects of having such a large audience? That's such a good question.

So at first it was— it— I didn't feel any like negativity. I didn't really get any hate comments or anything like that. It was mostly positive at first. I really didn't start to get those kind of people in my comments until I started monetizing, which was like I, I'm, I'm a very strategic person, and so once I saw my account starting to grow, I immediately was like, okay, what can I do to like capitalize on this? I wrote an ebook in like 3 days, sold it for $10. And once I started selling that ebook, because people were asking me the same questions and I was having to make the same video over and over again, so I was like, let me just throw this together and people can have it and they can— all the, all the answers that they're looking for are going to be here. And then once I started selling that, I got people in my comments like, oh, they're— all these fitness influencers just want to make money, and, um, why are you charging people for information that you can find on Google?

And it's called a fucking job.

Yeah, exactly. And so it wasn't until then that I started to get those kind of comments. But even after that, like, I feel like I've been lucky that I haven't had too many, like, hateful people in my comment section, but I also am so quick to block, mute, delete the comments, so I don't really let it get to me. The few that I have had—

she's big on protecting the energy.

Oh yeah, for sure.

She's like, um, this is my house, goodbye. I love that. I love that. So what did you— you obviously, you started to make that ebook. You're like, I need to— this is a big opportunity. Who knows like how long this is gonna last for? Want to make the most of it. Did it change your outlook on content creation? Did it change your relationship to social media? Because you said at first you were doing it for like fun. Like, tell us a little bit more about how that started to like evolve and like impact you in different ways. Because I know that eventually you stopped using that TikTok account and like completely shifted and like moved away from it. So I know that there was eventually kind of like an ending to that like season and era. So I'm curious like what happened in the in-between that sort of made you feel like this isn't me anymore, or I don't want to do this anymore?

Yeah, so there were a couple things. The first thing was that because I grew so quickly, I kind of put myself into a box, and that was— that's like a pro and con of niching down super hard. Like, I was fitness and I focused on that, and it worked. Like, I got, I got the result that most people want, right? But then once I realized that I didn't want to do fitness anymore and I was ready to pivot, I wanted to talk about mindset, manifestation, and self-improvement, and not just my weight loss journey and answering the same questions about macros and workout plans. It was really hard for me to pivot and shift because like that jump happened so quickly. I had all these people following me for this one thing, and then I felt like I didn't really have room to pivot or rebrand because everyone who had followed me in those 3 weeks had followed me because of my fitness journey. And so they didn't really care about, you know, the other stuff that I wanted to talk about or that I wanted to incorporate more lifestyle stuff because I didn't set myself up for that kind of brand and for that kind of like, like exploration of myself and like the room to evolve like some other creators who kind of have that slow burn, which is why I'm so big on that now because I've— I was in that position where like, yeah, it was amazing to have that many followers, but like it wasn't a community, it was an audience. And so that was kind of the first thing that kind of shifted my energy towards, you know, being a creator on TikTok and using that platform. And then the second thing was I have always struggled with anxiety since I was in high school— no, since I was in middle school. And that first day when I had a panic attack was the last day I can remember feeling like fully grounded since I became a content creator, if I'm being honest. And ever since then, it was like, how can I keep getting— hitting millions of views? How can I keep hitting likes? How can I keep getting brand deals? How can I keep making money? And it's kind of been that like that constant grind to continue replicating the same results over and over again to kind of, you know, keep that status that I had at the beginning. And it felt so, so much like pressure and like weight on my shoulders that it got to a point where I was like, you know what, fuck this. I don't even want it anymore. I'm just gonna focus on, you know, that's when I got into like the coaching world and I started my fitness coaching business and I realized I didn't necessarily have to have, you know, a bunch of clients in order to make my business successful and profitable. So I focus more on like my Instagram and attracting higher-ticket clients versus selling like low-ticket digital products. And so that's kind of when I moved away from that platform and started to focus more on my podcast and building my community on Instagram and that kind of stuff.

Yeah, like the quality of relationships and kind of like a smaller number of high-quality clients rather than just pursuing the volume at like a low-ticket price, selling a $10 ebook to, you know, 500 people. Yeah, yeah. So interesting because like I think it's rare that people get to experience both sides of that spectrum in their journey of like business and content creation, um, because it doesn't normally happen like that for them. And so I think you have a lot of perspective and a lot of probably great advice that you can give to your clients and the people in your communities of really actually having lived on both sides of that coin, because I agree with everything that you're saying, but I don't have the lived experience of actually feeling, you know, what it's like to have an audience of hundreds of thousands and having thousands of comments and, you know, having that kind of experience of just your, your business is based on pure volume. There's not like depth, there's not community, there's not high-ticket clients. It's just like volume and trying to sell like easy, quick, like grab-type offers. So yeah, it's such like a contrast to then move away from it. But I know that you've also talked about like having healed kind of from that experience and like deepening in your own business journey, then sort of having this curiosity of like, maybe I want to go back to that account and maybe I wanna, maybe I wanna unlock, maybe I wanna dust off the old TikTok. Yes, I do. Okay, so what has that been like of like returning? And I don't know, did you feel like maybe you, you walked away from that because you needed space or you needed time to breathe and you just couldn't be there anymore? Or were you like, actually, maybe I overcompensated and I thought that like I couldn't transition any of these people to my personal brand? Because the point that you made is like so fair where like if you want to grow really fast on social media, be super narrow, be super niche. But the danger with that, especially with women who are, you know, building businesses and who are entrepreneurial, is that we are all so multifaceted and we oftentimes are going through these constant evolutions of self and evolutions of our interest and what we wanna teach on. So when you just grow with a very niche topic, what you find is that your audience is people that are there for a topic. They're not there for you. So that's the difference, like you said, of pers— that's why I'm so big on like personal branding. That's been my journey. I've definitely been like a slow burner. Half the time I'm like, you know, there's, there's new followers coming in all the time, but there's also people cycling out. So I don't really see my following like growing that much. In terms of like the number getting much bigger. 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Mhm. Yeah, so I've been thinking about this a lot recently cuz I, I revived it like 2 weeks ago. Um, and it's so interesting because now I definitely feel like I didn't have to do that, but at the same time I wouldn't have been able to get to this point if I hadn't. Like if I hadn't taken a pause and actually had time away from it to kind of reevaluate what my relationship with that platform will be now. Um, I think that especially for a space like TikTok, it's— I think it's, it's built for new people to come in and for old people to kind of leave. And so now that I've been using it differently, like, I honestly came back to it because I've had a few people, a few brands reach out to me. I haven't used that account in a year, but they're still like, oh, we want to gift you this free thing, or we want to collab. And I'm like, okay, sure.

Like, I'm not gonna say like no. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not gonna say no, but also I think, and this is my thing with social media in general, I think that it's such a powerful tool for us to leverage for the goals that we have. And so I built this amazing platform and like, yes, there are a lot of people there who aren't gonna wanna be with me for the long term. I've actually lost about 10 or 20,000 followers. I had one, one point my account was at like almost 280K and it's back down to like 250. And so I think that's just the nature of. Social media in general, especially because I grew so quickly. And so I've kind of had to be okay with that, and that's really shifting my relationship. Like, before, one— another big reason why I didn't want to create there was because it just kind of fucked with my head, like seeing the numbers fluctuate and go down, and then I would lose followers, and I took it personally, and it made me not want to show up. And I've created all these stories around why I wasn't this type of influencer like the Alex Earls who have that, like, ride-or-die community. Every video is hitting that, that huge, you know, engagement. Everyone in her comments is obsessed. Like, I honestly don't have that. And so I kind of, like I said, took it personally and was like, you know what, fuck this, I'm just gonna go where I'm wanted. But then I realized, I was like, okay, if I'm losing followers, that's fine. That's actually creating the space for the people who want to be there to be able to see my content more, and it's creating space for new people to come in. And like, I just can't take it personally, and I can use that platform to, you know, do the things that I set out to do. I wanted to be an inspiration to people. I wanted to connect with people, share my journey, work with brands, like do all the things that I wanted to do. I just had to take my ego out of the equation because that's really what it came down to. It was me being in my feels about, you know, not being at the, the level that I thought I should be versus just like continuing to build and refine and connect with the people who want to connect with me. Um, so I don't know if I answered your question, but that's kind of like some of the reflections that I've been having recently with it is like, it gets— it's not personal. I'm giving it too much of my power, and I need to just be able to create what I want to create, let it reach the people it reaches. It's always— I, I always say it's like the people that it's meant to reach, it will, and it's not— it doesn't have to be for everyone. So yeah, that's just kind of what I've been thinking and feeling recently around that. But I am so excited to be able to create on that account again because of the opportunities, and because it's teaching me to just stay in my power and to not let the numbers get to me. And that's been a big thing with me recently, not just with social media numbers but financially. And like, I've outsourced a lot of my power to other people and places and numbers when really, like, I think— I forgot who said this, but it was on a recent episode I heard, um, of Makeshift Happen. She was like, you get to decide what the narrative is. Like, you get is to decide like what you make something mean about you or the situation. And so it's been good to like take my power back and to actually enjoy creating. And the response has been really good. Like one of my— the third video I posted hit like 50K views, and I'm like, oh, so, so like, she's still got it. Yeah, she's still got it.

She's still got it. But I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to regardless, is like you said, taking the ego out of things, taking things less personally, like like, it's, it's so much easier said than done. Like, it actually is quite hard. Like, there's, there's a lot of things in business that, like, I still take quite personally. It's been like a journey of mine too. I even, like, talk to my own mentors about stuff. Like, things will happen with, like, clients, or, um, where I feel like maybe people aren't valuing how much I'm pouring into them, or it feels like sometimes you get, like, disrespected. Or when people do weird things with, like, their payments and don't honor their investments, or like they ghost or whatever. Like, and it's like when you are someone that puts so much heart and soul into what you do and like really caring about the people in your world and your community, whether it's followers or clients or whatever, and then it feels like that's not reciprocated, like it's human nature to like take it personally and to be like, damn, like they really don't care about me, or they really don't like what I'm putting out there, or they really don't value me. So So I know that you have said that giving less fucks is— and like having more fun is one of the best strategies to grow on social. So I feel like that kind of ties in with this perfectly of like removing the ego, taking things less personally, and giving less fucks. What has that looked like for you, like tangibly? How can we help people that are listening today actually start to embody that and do that?

Yeah, and I have been doing for like the past month and a half, and it's been working so well. Number one, it feels so much better to show up. And number two, like, the results— I think that's kind of how I grew my account in the first place. I wasn't worried about the strategy. I wasn't worried about, you know, every video going viral. I was mostly in it for the fun and to connect with people. And I think that more, more— if more people started to do that, like, you just stopped trying to achieve a specific result with your content and just focus on creating to create, creating to connect, then the results will follow. And especially if you're kind of in the position where you have space and time to focus on quality and quantity while also having fun with it. Like, in March, my experiment was just to post as often as I wanted to and to make sure that the content was good. And we can talk about, like, what good content actually means. But, um, I was posting, like, 3 times a day because I wanted to, and it was aligned with, like, the goals that I had. It was was, you know, aligned with my content pillars. Like, I'm still in the strategic side of things too, because I'm not just gonna post shitty content just to say I posted 3 times that day, but to like really focus on like what I want to say, how I want to make someone else feel through my content, um, and just like what's in— what's real for me right now. Like, what I was focusing on was one post a day on TikTok was like silly, fun, like it's just like maybe a trend. The second post was a little bit more serious, aligned with with, you know, one of my content pillars or like the brand that I want to create. And then the third post could be anything, like it could be anything I wanted, and I wasn't attached to a specific outcome. I was really just experimenting to see what was going to work and what I actually like to create, because a big piece of me stepping back into kind of more of the content creator first role has been figuring out like Who am I as a creator in this new era? Because I've gone through so many pivots and changes, and so it's been really fun just to rediscover like what my voice is and what I really wanna talk about. And I think for people who are listening, like if you are not sure how to implement this for yourself, I really think it just comes down to like experimentation. Like if you were just thinking about, you know, what do you actually wanna create today? What do you wanna say? How do you wanna make someone feel? What's alive for you right now. Get on, pull out your camera, record it in the moment. Don't try and like over-edit it or make it super polished. That was another thing I fell into is like, I think a lot of people put their like coach or teacher mentor hat on, especially if you're a business owner, or the influencer hat, and you like try to make yourself seem like the other people that you see doing things really well and like popping off, and you lose your authentic voice and how you actually show up. And so I I think it's taking those hats and masks off and like really figuring out who the heck are you as a person, and then how can you translate your like authentic energy and magnetism through your content. So I think it's— it really just comes down to experimentation and throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

Yeah, we kind of talked about this like at the Top Tier Immersion of like how do we bring more of our real life personality, because like we're all meeting in person at the immersion and it's like, oh my God, you're like so much like funnier than I thought, like, in person. Or you're like, you know, we were all kind of like giving those reflections of like everyone was who they are online, but there was also these like amplified elements that you were getting to know about all the women by being with them in person. And then, so then we had the conversation of like, yeah, like we're all cooler in person, of course. Like we're all funnier in person, we're all like sassier in person, like we're all more fun in person. So How can we start to intentionally try to translate our real-life personalities and how we actually are in person to the online space? Like, I think those are the people that end up doing the best, is when, like you mentioned, Alex Earle. Like, I think that's why people fell in love with her so much, was because it just felt like that is ex— like an exact copy of like who she is in real life is exactly how she is online. And it's not like any of us are pretending or like trying to be something that we're not. But naturally, when a camera comes out, there's a part of you that puts on— like, it feels like you need to perform, right? Where it's like, I need to be well-spoken, I need to be appropriate, I need to not offend, I need to be really clear, I need to be strategic. What am I doing this for? What's the purpose? And all of that, as you're saying, are the things that dilute the personality. In the content. And I think especially for business owners, like, the most tiring type of content is the type of content that is always trying to get a result, which is oftentimes the only type of content that business owners are creating, is like, what is the content that's going to sell, that's going to convert, that's going to get engagement, that's going to get someone to DM me the word to buy the whatever offer. And that stuff is really tiring to create because it's mentally taxing. Of like you're just constantly thinking about what is the end result, how do I get them to do something, and you're not in that energy that you're describing, which is just like, who am I? Like, what's my personality? What do I want to say? What do I want to create? Like, fuck it, just throw it out there and post content. Like, top content creators are not selling you something in every piece of their content, which is why their content does really well. Um, so I think that's another like added challenge when you want to be a better content creator but you also are a business owner. It's like striking that balance, which kind of brings me to this question of, like we were talking about, the identity shift of content creator first, which is kind of like what you've decided that you are, or like want to be, at least in this season. Whereas previously you got like more pulled into the business owner first identity. Can you talk a little bit about like waking up to that realization? Returning to like the content creator first archetype, identity, mindset, whatever you want to call it, and what that's looked like in your life and in your business. Hey, don't forget that every month we are picking a listener of the month to win $50 in cash just for showing love to the show. All you have to do is leave an epic review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts. Podcasts, screenshot the review before you hit submit, and DM that screenshot to us on Instagram @makeshifthappenpodcast. And that's it. I want to thank you for being such a loyal listener and show my appreciation by putting a little extra cash in your pocket. I know it's super easy not to do it, but every single rating and review seriously helps the show rank higher and reach new people, so we appreciate them more than you know. We'll announce the next winner at the end of the month and slide into your DMs if it's you. So keep an eye out and good luck. Love you guys and thanks for supporting Makeshift Happen.

Yeah, so I, I don't remember like a specific day that I realized it, but I was just thinking about in general in Q1 how I want to run my business, how I want to show up online, and why things have felt so sticky. I feel like I've always kind of been averse to like the selling content that you were just talking about and only showing up on social media to market my products and services and, and, you know, that kind of stuff. Um, because I started off as a creator, and so it was always natural for me to create first, sell second, and like not sell first and create second, if that makes sense. Which is what a lot of people who are business owners are doing. They're creating content with the intention of selling something, not with connecting first. And I just got to the point and I was like, like, I don't want to feel like this when I'm creating content. Like, if I was just gonna, you know, have a business, there's so many other ways that I could market myself. Like, I have a podcast, I do podcast swaps, I guest teach. I love marketing myself that way. Like, I think that's really where I found the difference for myself, is that I want to use social media to build my personal brand and to connect with the people who who could potentially be my clients, but to also just have a place where I can express myself creatively, um, put myself in a position for bigger, better opportunities. Because let's be real, social media, we look at a follower number, like an engagement, and that can translate to opportunities, whether it's brand deals or being featured in someone's podcast or a magazine or whatever. Um, and then kind of like selling my stuff on the back end, which has felt so much better for me. And I know I know that that's not the case for everyone and that's okay, but I think especially with the way that I like to show up, I, I try to think of social media as like the living room rather than the office. Like, I don't like feeling like it's— it has to be so stuffy and stiff and I have to do X, Y, and Z in order for them to, like you said, comment the word and then we go from there. And like, I'm only showing up to sell. That like made me feel so burnt out with with my own content that I was creating, and I know my audience could feel that. And when I was showing up, it was like not with the right energy that I needed to in order to like actually create the connection that would create a conversion. And this is something that I'm working on with my clients right now. One of my— one of my girls, she's like so in the mindset of like, I have to create to sell. I don't want to create just to create. Like, I want to just get my clients from social media and go. And I'm Yes, you can. And I can tell your audience is probably burnt out with your content because you only are selling. Like, you're only educating. They don't really know who you are. They don't really get a chance to, like, trust you as a person. They can't see your journey, and they can't see themselves in the story that you're trying to sell them because you're pushing so hard with that, like, selling content. And I think that even now I've had more inquiries since I've shifted my own approach and like, like, you know that saying, like, those who can't do, teach? And I feel like I fell into that, which is like not a problem. Like, teachers are fine, but I feel like the people that want to work with me work with me because they see that I'm doing what they want to do, not just that I'm teaching them how, but that I'm embodied in what I'm trying to teach them. And so one, it's more fun for me to show up when I'm like having fun in my content, but two, it also shows the people that I'm working with, like Not only do I know what I'm talking about and I can teach it to you, but I'm doing it myself.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's so real. And I think no matter what your work is in, if you're an entrepreneur listening to this, like we've all experienced that where we've lived something so deeply and fully to the point where we're like, I could really help people with this. Mm-hmm. And then we start to help people with it. And because helping people with it turns into a business and running a business is very time consuming and there's a lot of things to do. You end up not doing anymore the thing that you used to do, which is now the thing that you teach, right? Like, this happened to me so much with like the manifestation and like mindfulness stuff and whatever. I was like teaching a program called From Burnt Out to Badass, and like I'm growing this business, and I remember at one point going, I think I'm about to burn out, which is fucking hilarious because I'm, you know, selling this program that's called From Burnt Out to Badass. And of course I like went through that and solved it in the past, but I could see myself going back into that cycle of like overworking or pushing too hard because I was no longer embodying the exact principles that I teach inside of that program because I was so busy selling and teaching the program. Yeah, like it's, it's just such a real experience where the business becomes the whole thing that you don't have as much time for like actually being the embodiment of what it is that you're teaching. But it's so important that we like wake up to those moments and realize them and prioritize and recognize also that you embodying what you teach is not just like fun or leisure or fill your cup, but it's so much more than that. It's about being in integrity with what you're offering, and it also is actually productive for your business. Because like you said, the more that you went back into that content creator archetype and started embodying that and posting for fun and not selling in all your posts and really building community and whatever, then people were like, hey, like, she's actually pretty good at content, maybe I want her to help me with content. Yeah. Whereas before if all the content was like, here's how I can help you with content. It's like, it's not, it's not giving the same, you know?

It definitely isn't. And people can feel that too, like when you're only showing up to, to sell something. And it, it feels so much better. And I think that it's, and for me it's easy to say that, but cuz I know like other types of business owners might not feel like they can do that in order to market themselves and like still have, you know, the business that they want while still kind of putting on their content creator hat. But like, like we were just talking about, it works so much better. It's a lot more natural and it doesn't feel like the only reason you're creating content is to make money.

It's kind of like the same thing with, you know, we all talk about like abundance mindset all the time. Mm-hmm. And if you're just constantly thinking like, how can I 'How can I get more money?' or 'How can I get someone to pay me?' Like, are you going to feel like you're, A, in an abundant frequency? And B, are you actually going to be a magnet to, like, good money opportunities if you're just constantly thinking about, like, you've got this, like, chokehold on this, like, idea of, like, abundance and money, of, like, 'How can I get more money? I just need to make more money'? Like, it's not really, like, giving magnetism, you know? So the same is for, like, if the energy behind everything that you're showing up and creating is, like, 'How can I get them to pay attention? How can get them to buy. Is it like, are you actually in a magnetic frequency to where people are going to want to inquire and approach you, or is it feeling more stiff to where people aren't actually engaging? Which I think is a very fair experience when everything is a sale. Um, it doesn't really like lend to that experience that you're speaking to, which is now people are actually reaching out even when you're not selling. And they're like, hey, like, can you help me with this? Which is such a— it's such a conundrum. And I think there's a fear, like naturally so, that if you stop selling, that you will not make sales, or if you stop selling as much, right? Because I think there's value in content that really is pointed and it's direct and is designed to make sales. So I think for everybody listening, it's like you finding the balance in your your business and what works for you. Um, but yeah, I'm sure that there's a fear for a lot of people of like, well, if I don't CTA in every post and if I don't sell, then I'm missing opportunities for people to buy from me. What would you say to that from your experience of having tried it both ways?

Yeah, so what I feel like has been working really well and that I've been teaching my clients is to work in content seasons and And that is where you can, like, if you're going into a launch— and I, this is more for people who have like launch cycles, and if you're doing something that's evergreen, it might look a little bit different for you— but let's say I'm about to go into a launch for one of my programs, and this past season I've mostly been focusing on growth, engagement, nurturing my community. Like, that was the season I was in. And then now I'm like, okay, in this next season of launching something or intentionally trying to attract more clients, that's when I'll increase the amount of CTAs, um, post more of that like educational, like authority-building type of content that shows people, you know, I'm not just doing it but I also teach and I can help you do it too. And like, um, sharing a little bit more testimonials and just being more intentional about selling in a specific season, whether that's like 4 weeks or however long your launch is, and then going back into a season of nurture, growth, engagement, that kind of stuff. And for me, that works really well because I don't feel as much pressure to be selling something all the time. And like, the people who've been in my audience for a long time, they already know what I'm selling. So the way that I look at a season, it's like, it's for the people who may not have been there as long, and then it's also for when I'm intentionally trying to like fill my, fill my program. And I feel like you're really good at that. Like, you— I feel like you're someone who's really good at content seasons and like when you're launching something, you're on it. And then when you're not, you kind of just fall back into posting what you feel like posting.

Yeah. I was gonna say, I definitely feel like I, I do that as well. Um, I turn it on when it's time to turn it on.

Exactly.

And then, and then after that I'm like, okay, let's just like be fun and silly now for a little bit. Yeah. Um, and I think you can sell, I think you can sprinkle in and sell all the time.

Mm-hmm.

In your content. Um, but it, it does also feel good to like not have to like CTA for every post. Like, yeah, I love a like fun, like voiceover, silly, stupid type reel with like a one-line caption. Like, that's like my dream piece of content. If I could just post— if I could just post like that content like all the fucking time, wow, like dream, dream.

But I also think that like the stories are really good for in those in-betweens. Like if you don't feel like CTAing in all of your like feed posts, I still talk about like my strategy sessions on my stories. And then like I'll tell people if I have a few spaces open for one-on-one, cuz then it, it's like you're still CTAing and off making your offers known, but it's, it's on your story. And so it doesn't have to live on your feed forever. It's like 24 hours and then. And yeah, you kind of have the freedom to go back to doing whatever. But I think it's— I think finding the balance is up to you. Like, you have to figure out what's going to work best for you and your business, and it's not going to look the same for every single person.

Yeah, Instagram Stories is where it's at for selling. I actually have an offer coming out soon all about like selling in your stories because I love that and it works so well. So I'm excited to, to bring that to life, just kind of like a full spectrum sort of view of like how to effectively sell in your stories, because that's such a good tip. Um, obviously we can see TA in public content, but like it is— it feels a little bit more like casual, relaxed, and fun to be able to sell in the story. So for people that want to master that, keep your eyes out, something's coming. Hate to be that person, big things coming. Um, but it is. Um, okay, uh, I kind of want to ask you about about, um, this— it's not even like a balance, but it's like, you know, wanting to prioritize like travel and hobbies and leisure and living like a soft— like, slow. I know you love to read. Like, I know you— I, I love that, that one that you did recently. I think I commented on it when it was like, you just need to learn how to dilly-dally. Like, about like dilly-dally. I'm like, this is so you because I know that you're very much Like you're a leisure girly, but like you also wanna be a millionaire baddie with a booming business and like make the money and like all the things. And there's gonna be so many people listening that are like, facts. Like, so can you talk to me about your experience? Cause I think it's not as simple as like, oh yeah, just do both, have both all the time. I think you've probably had seasons where you've been like in more of the hustle, for lack of a better term. And then there's been seasons where you've been in more of just like kind of your sort of like feminine receiver energy. And both of those can burn us in certain ways. So I'm curious to know, like, from your perspective, what that has been like and how you've navigated like swinging in and out of those two sides of ourselves. The sides of ourselves that like want it all and we're like, yes, let's go. And then the side of ourself that's like, I just wanna like lay around and read a book. And take a bubble bath.

Yeah, honestly, I'm still figuring it out because you— I think you were the first person I heard this analogy from, like the pendulum that swings, and sometimes you're too far in the masculine, sometimes you're too far in the feminine, and then either— you never really will find like that perfect balance. I don't think that really exists, and I've kind of accepted that. And the more that I accept it and I just like go with my energy, the better it's been. And also I've been working with someone who's been teaching me about cycle syncing, and that's been really helpful because that kind of mirrors like our natural energy levels. And so like just following that has been helpful for me. And the way that I structure my days— I'm not a morning person, I know that about myself. You know that about me. I know everyone who knows me knows that I'm not a morning person, so I enjoy my slow, soft girl morning I don't wake up until like 9 o'clock, and then I eat breakfast, get my shit together, and then by like 11 or 12, I'm like hopping on calls or starting my day with emails or whatever admin stuff I have to do. And then I, I really work between like 12 and 3, and I'll take a little break, and then I'll work from like 5 to 8 or something like that some days. Okay. So yeah, I, I just kind of do what feels good. And I like break it up because I am like very get shit done. I don't like to waste time. I like to be productive, not busy. Like, I'm gonna sit down and work, I'm not gonna fuck around. Like, I, I know what I'm gonna do when I sit down to work. And when I'm not working, I love to dilly-dally. Like, you will see me laying around reading, um, going to the park, going to a coffee shop, like just doing what I want because I've set my schedule up to get the most important things done first. So then the rest of the day, if I feel like it, I don't have to work, or I don't have to like be on all the time. And so that's kind of just like a rough outline of what my schedule and routine looks like.

So, okay, wait, like when is the dilly-dallying? Is that after 5 to 8 PM, or is it like on the weekends? Like where are we fitting this in? I need, I need tips.

So again, like the morning time, I, I dilly-dally like all morning. Okay.

The morning time is dilly-dallying.

Yeah. Morning is dilly-dally, and then the nighttime time is dilly-dally. So like after I finish doing my last little things, like I'm not, I wouldn't say it's like work, work until 8 because my brain just won't focus that long. But yeah, like once I finish doing whatever's on my to-do list for the day, it's, it's like playtime.

Hmm. What is play? What do you do in playtime?

I like to read, um, talk to my friends, like hang out with my mom. Right now I'm living at home, so it's not as exciting as when I'm like out and about when I was traveling. But, um, I don't know, my, my favorite thing to do is read. Like, that's my version of dilly-dallying at the moment. But I'm about to take a pottery class, so that'll be fun.

Um, yeah. What was your— okay, so if people don't know this about Autumn, she also lived in Spain, and this kind of same way that I did, she was teaching English while she, she was there, but she was also growing her business. I guess, what did you find? Cuz you mentioned like when you were traveling, obviously your schedule looked different. Did you find it hard to work when you were like living in another country or wanting to like travel and see things? What was that like? Cuz I know you're going back, so.

Yes. Yeah. So it was, it wasn't like hard. I feel like I had a really good balance, um, especially cuz the, my like workday when I was teaching gave me the structure that I needed to like kind of break up my day the way that I needed to. So I felt like it was pretty easy. And at the time also, I wasn't like super busy. Like, I had a group program and then I had some one-on-one clients, and so I had set times already that I knew I had to work around. So I feel like because, like, I'm— I call myself a Type A- person because I'm like not super on it, but I'm on it enough that like I, I like my structure. So I had that and it gave me the ability to like plan out my trips. Like, I would plan my trips around like my school schedule and then like my client calls and that kind of stuff. And the content kind of came naturally, so I didn't have to do too much around— like, I don't really content batch or anything super serious or have any crazy, crazy scheduling with that. So I found it pretty easy, especially because I'm good at holding myself accountable. I feel like if I was— wasn't the kind of person who had that ability to like do the things that I said I was gonna do when I said I was gonna do it and like have that structure, um, it could— it would have been a lot harder. But because I'm, I'm pretty structured with my, with my, with myself—

I love the Type A-. I feel like I'm an A- too because I do love structure, but like I'm also— I actually am like pretty like fluid and relaxed. Like when you meet like a true Type A person, you're like, oh, that I'm Yeah, that's not me. That's not me, you know. But like, compared to like your Type B friends, you'd be like, oh, I'm like way more Type A than them. So I think I'm Type A-.

Have you heard that sound? It's like, I can go with the flow, I just need to know when the flow is going to start, when it's going to end.

Yeah, but I need to wear to the flow.

Yeah, so like, that's what I think of when I think Type A-.

Yes, I'm Type A-. I love that. Okay, are you excited to go back to Spain? Like, tell us about what that made you want to get your master's degree, like go back to Europe? How does this like all fit into the new vision for like your business, brand, all the things?

Yeah, so I am so excited to go back. I literally can't wait. Um, I decided that I wanted to get my master's because I really want— I really love what I do with content, branding, all of that stuff, but I really want to have a more like I don't want to say professional because I am a professional now, but I want to be— to improve my skills, my knowledge, also make connections. I think getting a master's degree, especially at an international school like the one I'm going to, that's going to open up so many doors. And I don't have to just do online if I don't want to anymore. I want to have the credibility and the foundation that I didn't necessarily get when I was getting my degree, um, my bachelor's, because I studied psychology. I didn't study marketing. So a lot of the experience that I've had over the past few years is all I really have to go on when I'm teaching and working with clients. And that's great, like, we love lived experience. But I also, I love to learn. Um, I've always been a, been a school girly, like, I love to sit in a classroom and take notes and collab with my, with my peers and that kind of thing. So when I thought about what my next step would be if I wanted to kind of uplevel, it's not necessarily that I think I need the degree, but I think having, having a deeper understanding of marketing, communication, like I said, it's going to open so many doors that I don't think are available to me right now. And it also just gives me a chance to move back to Europe.

Like, yeah, we're like, any excuse to get back to Spain, let's be for fucking real, okay? Honestly, like, I loved living there and I was like, make it make sense for our parents and yeah.

Right, exactly. It's a little bit cheaper to get the visa.

So much cheaper. Yeah, I honestly, I'm like, my kids are gonna go to school in Europe. Hopefully they think it's cool. It's gonna save me money.

Yeah, and they already have dual citizenship, so why not?

They're gonna be the luckiest little shits on the planet. I'll tell you that much. I'll tell you that much for real. Oh my gosh. Okay, so speaking of, obviously you're like the master of content creation. And we've talked about, you know, quite a few elements of it so far, but I, I really want to dig into like your area of expertise in giving any kind of tips like for people to really improve their content. Because here's what I'm noticing, the, the market has become so much more competitive, right? Because it used to be so much easier to grow on social media, point blank period. And now content creation is a full-time job. Mm-hmm. There's so many people that that is their profession. They are content creators. And so even if you're not a content creator by trade and you are a business owner that just wants to use, you know, content to bring traction to their business, or even if you're just wanting to like build a personal brand or start a movement or like help people or whatever it is that you're wanting to do, like you're still in the same pool. On social media with all these people who are professional content creators. So I think the market is so much more competitive in the sense that the quality has gone up, like video production, editing, transitions. Like everything is so much more intense now than it used to be back in like, let's say, 2018. Like you could post a picture and a caption in 2018 and like make $100,000. That's an exaggeration, but like it kind of like felt like that, right?

Yeah.

So So knowing that the market has changed, that also consumers have become more sophisticated and also more jaded because they've bought things that maybe like weren't the greatest or it wasn't like they didn't get what they felt like they were sold in the marketing, whatever. What are some of your like best tips to competing in the 2025 content market and creating better content?

Yeah, love this question because I've also noticed the same thing. And I always say you can't, you can't stand out if you're trying to fit in. And that's what I see a lot of people doing right now, is you see these big creators and what they're doing and what's working, and a lot of people try to emulate that versus standing in their own, you know, gifts and talents and all those things. And so what I created was— it's called the SPICE Framework, and that's kind of like the 5 pillars that I teach my clients for how to really stand out out, like improve their content. It's, that's what's really gonna help you with, you know, growing, monetizing, like being a better creator, and then also standing out in the competition. And so SPICE is an acronym, so it's specific, polarizing, interesting, consistent, and emotional. And so we can like dive into each of them, or I can just kind of give you a brief overview. What do you wanna do?

Yeah, let's kind of do, I love the SPICE framework, you guys. She teaches this also in Top Tier. Because we do our like Zone of Genius workshop. So all the girls that are inside of Top Tier, they get to teach on their area of expertise. So I'm gonna like gatekeep slightly but not all the way. So let's give us like a little overview because I love— you know, I always say like the spice is in the specificity. So the more specific you can get, but tell us like a little bit about each of them but like summarized version. Gotcha.

Gotcha. So with S, first of all, spice. Like you said, the spice is in specificity, and so many people generalize in their content, which is like what we used to work— like, you could just say like the most broad generalization ever and you could pop off and go viral.

But I think that now people really need to see that you like start before you're ready. Yeah, like, I remember one time I saw Ashley Graham like post, um, something about— she was like, the best advice I ever heard was to like start before you write. And this post like went so viral. I was just like, this is fucking hilarious because literally people like actually in the personal development industry like saying way more profound things and it's like 3 likes.

I'm like, yeah, that's how I— that's kind of how I feel about, um, the let them theory. But that's neither here nor there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No shade, no shade.

Really, really no shade, Mel Robbins.

We love you.

Yes. Oh my God, wait, did you see— did you see the viral parody of the girl pretending to be Mel Robbins? She like sounds exactly like her, and she was like, if your ex-boyfriend takes a shit in your front lawn, let them.

Yes, I saw that.

That was so funny. Yeah, so good. Okay, anyways, Sidebar. Yeah, be specific.

Yes, be specific and also don't be basic.

Um, no basic bitch energy.

No. So when I think about being more specific, it's like I always tell people to go 3 layers deep with their content. So if instead of saying like, here's how to overcome your limiting beliefs, go so deep that you're gonna— you're the person on the other side of the screen is gonna feel like you're in their head. So like, here's how to, um, here's how to stop worrying that your friends and family will judge you when they see your content. 'cause like that's what people are really worrying about. Like it's a limiting belief, but it's so specific.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then polarizing. So that's my favorite one. I love polarizing content. I always say that your content is supposed to repel the wrong people and attract the right ones, and you're not supposed to speak to everyone. Like not everyone is gonna like you, um, ever in any space, but especially online. So don't be afraid to like be a little spicy, a little polarizing, share your hot takes and your opinions and that kind of stuff. Um, interesting. I think this one is very underrated. I constantly flip back and forth between interesting and innovative, but to make the long story short, like, if everyone's posting content and a lot of it is starting to blend in, you have to be the one to stand out. And whether that's innovating in the way that you create the content, like your editing style or your videography style, or like the more technical side of things. Or just in your personality. Like, you don't have to be the most interesting person in the world. Like, Alex Earle, kind of going back to her because I think she's a good example of this, she's, she's just a chaotic 20-something, but she makes her life look interesting. She makes you interested. And so it's kind of like, what's your unique angle that's going to make people more interested in who you are or what you're selling?

You know what I think is a good example of this too is like Emma Chamberlain. Like, obviously years ago when she blew up on YouTube, I think one of the main reasons that she did was because she she was like interesting slash innovative with the way that she made her videos and edited. It was like really her editing style that people were just like, what is this? Like, she was just like— it was the chaotic, random like zoom-ins and like shakes and like the sound or whatever. And, um, it was just— it was so uniquely her. And almost like she has this like dry like awkwardness that you're like, what am I watching right now? And it just made it interesting because it just wasn't what everyone else was doing. And I always tell my clients, like, novelty sells. So even when it comes to like messaging, which I know you also talk a lot about, like speaking of interesting and innovative, it's like you have to say things in a way that everyone else isn't already saying them, right? So if everyone's talking about that, you know, a certain— like self-love, for example. Like, that used to be such like a hot topic buzzword. Oh my God, like you could sell anything if it was about self-love. Now you hear self-love, white noise, checked out, already know it, already do it. Like, I feel like I don't even need to listen to what you're about to say because you framed it in a way that makes my brain go, I've already heard it.

That's how I feel about anything that's like gut health.

Yeah, I know, it's crazy though. Like, we literally have to— that's the innovation piece, right? It's like you have to continue when it comes to marketing. You have to continue to to like find new ways to talk about the same stuff, but you're saying in a new way, or you're giving a framework to it, like what you've done with SPICE, right? Like, that's your signature framework. So now there's a way that you can talk about it that someone who hasn't learned it in this way before is going to be like, oh, I don't know this, my ears are perking up, like, let me listen. Versus if you were just like saying, here's how to make better content. Yeah, don't care.

Yeah, and I also think it's like, it's not even information. It's kind of like you said, it's the interpretation or your unique perspective that really makes it interesting.

Like, there's this presentation of it, it's the packaging. It's not like what's inside. Like, at the end of the day, your personality is the thing that's gonna like add that, that unique flavor to it and make it like different. But you don't have to reinvent the wheel of what you're teaching, it's just reinventing the packaging. It's rewrapping it in something new.

Oh, I like that, rewrapping it. Yeah, that's so true. Um, and then kind of going off of that one with being consistent, um, I love series. I think having a series is one of the best things that you can do.

I need to do a series. So many of my friends, so many of my friends that are in content creation always tell me about the signature series. Like Alyssa, like all the time she's like, signature series. I'm like, what the fuck is my signature series, bitch?

No, literally, I'm still trying to figure out what mine— like, it's— it— I think it takes time to actually figure out what your series is going to be. And most of the time, like, your community will decide for you.

I know, I was gonna say, I feel like people come across them randomly. Like, they do something and it like pops off, and they're like, okay, I'm just gonna keep doing that.

Exactly. There's this one that I'm obsessed with, um, it's called Woo Woo Hippie Shit That Actually Works. I also think the name of the series is what gets people sucked in. Um, but it's just like kind of like what we talked about with Rewrapping. It's her interpretation of like spiritual hacks or like wellness things that she does, but she put this cute little name on it and it's a series. And so number one, it's more interesting, and number two, it makes me want to come back for more, and it makes her stand out. Like, that's her series, and if I see someone else doing it, I'm like, you're copying her.

Yeah, which like Like, this is so true too. Like, anyone who is copying, at the end of the day, what you're doing is you're amplifying the authority of the original creator and you're diluting your own. So I don't know if you've seen, um, do you know Ashton Hall? I don't know if you've seen— so like, obviously he's blown up over this, over this— you guys might not recognize the name, but you would know the video probably if you're chronically online. His crazy morning routine video. He lives in Miami, and, um, I have some friends that like know him personally, so it's been kind of like funny to like watch this whole thing unfold. But everyone is parodying him, everyone is like copying the style of like morning routine because it was so unrealistic. He like wakes up at 3:50 in the morning, he like dunks his— yeah, he has assistants like hand him a towel, he dunks his face in a bowl of ice water. Um, he does like all these like crazy— like he gets in the bath and like someone hands him like a sizzling steak and like grilled shrimp or something at like 5 AM. It's like, it, it's basically just unattainable. But that's why, again, to go to polarizing, it's like this is so unrealistic, unattainable, like you're super rich and whatever. So it gets that kind of reaction. But because that popped off so much, he's just like recreated the video over and over again and is continuing to do it, and now all these other creators are doing that as well. And so it's kind of like that became a series, it became a signature series without him probably even intending— I don't think that that was going to be a series, but it just took on a life of its own.

And that's really how it happens. Like, you'll post one thing and your audience will eat it up, and then they'll— you'll— if you recreate it enough, that's how it becomes your signature series. Series. And it doesn't have to be anything crazy like that. Like, there's this girl I follow on TikTok, and I just like watching her daily matcha videos. She posts the same shit every day, and it's just— I love it.

There's a level of, like, familiarity and comfort too when you, like, know how a video is gonna go and you just, like, know that you enjoy them and you, like, come back to watch. Creates that, like, bingeable effect as well. Um, but yeah, what I was going to say about, like, Ashton's videos too is, like, everyone else who's copying him and doing that video, when you see it, you know that they're doing like what he did. And so it's making your brain go to him, not them, right? Which is like a good reminder for why it's important to be like original. And yes, we can jump on trends and stuff, but it's just that point of like when you are copying what other people are doing, you're amplifying their authority, not your own.

Yeah. And kind of going back to Interesting, because you brought up trends, like I love a good trend But especially if it's kind of later in the game that you're catching it, how can you make the trend more interesting? Like, what's your unique spin on it versus just doing it the same way that everyone else has already done it? Because unless you catch the trend in its infancy, like before it really pops off, you're just going to blend in with everyone else, which like, right, that's going to be part of the fun. But if your goal with that trend is to stand out, like just doing the trend isn't enough.

So you have to like The recent trend, do you remember when everyone was doing like the, I met my younger self for coffee or whatever?

You did such a good job of putting your own spin on it, and then I saw other people putting your spin on it.

I know, I know, I did. I saw some people copying me and I was like, nice try, nice try, bitch. Anyways, anyways, I did it first. Um, the, the trend was like, I met my younger self for coffee. Like she showed up like in a rush. Like self-conscious of what she was wearing, like whatever, whatever. It was like supposed to be very like sentimental and like showing how you'd grown. And mine was basically like, I met my younger self for coffee and I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was basically like, oh, like, like she saw everything that I've created and was like, that checks out, like always been a bad bitch. And then, and then my future self told me like, and just be careful because coffee makes you shit your pants now. Yeah, and that was it. Because that's literally what I thought of when I thought of meeting my younger self for coffee. I was like, well, I did used to drink coffee, but now if I drink coffee, I'll literally get diarrhea. So, so there's always like, if you like, I think that's a good tip is my point, is when you see a trend, think about how can I like invert it, reverse it, have like a new take on it.

Yeah, I love when I see people do that, and that one was hilarious. So good.

That was good.

Yeah. And then the last one, E is for emotional. And so I think of that quote, it's like, um, people won't always remember what you said to them, but they'll always remember the way that you made them feel. It's the same thing with your content. Like people aren't out here remembering your singular posts that you make. They're remembering the way that you as the creator and your content is making them feel and like, like the emotions that you're evoking. So if you can really focus on that in your content, that's what's really gonna make you stand out, be memorable, connect with people a lot more deeply. And whether your goal is growth, engagement, or to make sales from your content, I think having more SPICE helps you achieve all of those goals.

Mm, so good. I love that you turned it into an acronym too, cuz it's so, it's like all the points that you need in like the perfect word. That was a, that was a major slay, to be honest.

I thought so too.

She's like, I fucking know.

That's genius.

It's genius. The SPICE framework. So good. And it like embodies all the things that you taught about, which is like innovating something, like having a new way to talk about it. Like, yeah, I love it. So good.

Autumn, thanks for coming on the show.

This is so fun. I feel like this is also kind of just like a casual catch-up. Um, hopefully it felt like that as you guys were tuning in, just like us having a chit-chat about like business, life. Yeah, trying to balance the different sides of entrepreneurship, content creation, wanting to be a dilly-dallying girl while also being a boss bitch queen, all the things. Um, so if you guys loved Autumn, her personality is the best and she's awesome at what she does. Make sure that you go give her a follow. Autumn, can you tell everyone where they can follow you now? Um, probably mainly on TikTok, right? I feel like you're posting more there than you are on Instagram.

Yeah, Instagram's getting the leftovers, but I'm still on there.

You guys are getting crumbs.

Crumbs, honestly. Um, but yes, TikTok, Instagram, both are the same username, Autumn, and then a period Denae. Um, I have my own podcast, I Am Two, which is a story for another day. Um, The Edge of Everything and the Slay on Socials podcast. And yeah, mostly hanging out on both Instagram and TikTok.

Yay! All right, we'll link everything in the show notes for you guys. You can go find Autumn, listen to her podcasts, check out her content, work with her if you feel called to uplevel your content game. Thanks for coming on the show, Autumn. It's been such a pleasure. You know, I love you so much and I'm so proud of you and everything that you've created in your business. And, uh, always so fun to get to work with you because you are like such a— you know, you have those like clients where it's like, this is the type of client that you want to have because they always show up with like amazing energy. They're infectious, they're ready to learn. Like you said, like you're a forever student. You want to go back to school, like you want to get your degree. Like, I feel like you're just that type of person that's really like hungry to like dig in and always better themselves and, and learn. And you're a very like coachable client, so it's always so fun to work with you because you like take stuff and you like run with it and you implement. And it's obviously paying off in your business and you're seeing those results, and it's fun to get to watch you grow. So I love you.

Thank you, I love you too. It's so sweet. See you in Spain.

Yes, I know. I'm like, I'll let you know. I think I'm going to be there in October. Will you be there?

Oh my God, yes. And it'll be my birthday month.

Oh my God, okay, so we might have to do another meetup. We met up the last time Autumn was living in Spain and I was, I was visiting, so we love that for us. Although it'd be full circle because it'd be like 2 years later. Oh my God, crazy. Anyways, okay, thanks for tuning in, you guys. We love you. If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot, share to your Instagram stories, tag Autumn and I. We'd love to connect with you guys. Don't forget to leave a rating and review of the podcast if you have an extra couple minutes to spare. It always helps so much, and we'll talk to you guys next week. Bye guys! If you loved this episode, make sure to check out the show notes where I've linked a few similar episodes I know you're also going to love. You'll find them under the similar episodes section in the description down below with direct links so you can dive in and start listening right away, or add them to your queue for later. Binge away for even more growth, expansion, abundance, and fire motivation.