Pivoting in Business, Ayahuasca, Escapism and Surrendering w/ Sam Altieri

Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shit happen.

Oh, I am so excited to be back with you, Sam, and just do all of the things, talk about all the things business, and, um, have a conversation about like what's been happening in our lives and our businesses, and especially as it aligns with like the springtime and all the changes that come with it. So what do you say we dive into like a really vulnerable, juicy conversation?

As we always do. I mean, do we do anything else ever?

You're right. You're right.

That's just kind of how we roll. That's how we roll. Yeah, I'm excited. Like, as we're recording this, we've literally just several days ago, kind of stepped into spring. And I'm feeling the energy of Aries season, which is like the fire energy. It's like igniting a lot of inspiration and action and, you know, this, this desire to really kind of like start anew and create things. And it's exciting, but there's also a piece of that that can be overwhelming. So we can kind of talk about that as well, you know, the mix of wanting to do all the things, but also then simultaneously kind of like being paralyzed because you're like, oh my God, all the things.

Yeah, yeah, that's totally how it's felt for me in the past few months. I mean, especially just like heading into the beginning of this year, I, I don't really— I don't know about you, but I don't really like set goals at the beginning of the year. Like, I'm— I really do live like so day to day and follow the energy, and it always ends up transpiring into something. And that's just kind of always how I've rolled. But I do feel like this equinox has really actually led me into a place of like the universe has just been like, bitch, you got to get rid of so much shit. You have to stop doing— you have to stop splitting your energy everywhere. And I think like I, I have been personally focused on just like so many things. Like I get so excited about doing so many things and being on different platforms and talking about different things. And, and I've realized just like how exhausting that is and how it really doesn't move the needle ahead. Like, it just makes everything go slower because you're like dispersing your energy among so many things. And I was in a Facebook group, um, I don't know, like last week, and somebody posted how like she's like, oh, I made it to 7 figures and blah blah blah, and I wanted to actually get to the bulk of what she was saying. And she was just like, the reason that I got here was focus. Like, it was focus. It was picking 1 to 2 platforms. It was following the same message. It was— and it's kind of these things that are almost boring that can, I think, lead so many of us like into this path like, well, over here and over here, you know, like kind of shiny objects and getting distracted and seeing people do other things. And I know for me, that has been something that Um, I've really been reflecting on because it's, it's taken me in ways that I didn't even realize. And only in the past like month have I really come back to my why to be like, wow, I really need to zoom out to be like, what's not in alignment? Like, what do I gotta let go of? What's, what do I actually not wanna talk about anymore? Or what do I actually not wanna teach on anymore? Like, why am I just teaching it? Because there's people in my audience that will join it. Or am I teaching it because I'm fucking lit up by it? You know? So I don't know if that resonates for you, but it feels so, like, real for me right now.

Yeah, well, it's that manifesting generator energy, you know, which we, we both have. And I know, like, you so much desire to do everything that— well, everything just in general, but then also just everything that's fun and feels good and exciting. And so maybe the idea of being more streamlined or more focused is like, there's an ickiness to it because it's like, but like that, I don't want to do that. I don't want to just do the one thing. I want to do all of the things and I want to do all the things really well. But then by trying to do all the things really well, you know, you move at increments of like 5% in 50 areas rather than, rather than moving at increments of like 25, 30, 40, 50% in one or two areas, which, yeah, like, I can so relate to that. I feel like this is always my relationship with TikTok. I think it's an amazing platform and I really want to like pour into it, and I get so many ideas for how I want to show up on TikTok and, and what I want to do with it. But then I'm like pulled in all these other directions of other things that I've already, you know, committed to and I've already dedicated my time and energy to. So I'm kind of like, yeah, it's that, that one thing that's always kind of like on my shoulder of like, this needs more attention, you should be doing this more. And there is a part of me that desires that, that wants that. But then at the same time, I feel like if I were to go into that, I would really need to go into it. And so that would require me to fall away or set some other things down partially. And I think that's really hard because there's, there's resistance there to like setting something down. Maybe you can relate to that in like a tangible sense of things in your life and your business right now. But like, ooh, maybe I like have to put that on the back burner or set that down for a little while if I really do want to pour into this other thing, you know, more intentionally.

Yeah, totally. I feel that. I mean, with the TikTok thing for me, TikTok is so enticing. It is so— it like draws me in. I look at it and I'm like, oh, I want to go in there. But I know for me, I mean, just intuitively I'm like, ah, it's going to turn into chaos for me. So I'm like, for right now, the boundary is no. Like, I don't even go on the app. I don't scroll. I don't open it for right now until I have enough discipline in habitual, like, OK, these are my platforms that I freaking love, right? I'm still kind of figuring that out even after being on social media for 5 years because like Instagram has changed so much since we started on it. Um, and I'm like, do I actually like Instagram anymore? Like, is this platform for me? Like really feeling into that and like, like feeling like what is— where's the place that I can really fully express myself? Like where's the place where I feel like I don't have to like dilute myself or put myself in a box, literally or metaphorically, you know? And it's like feeling into that. And I think that can be really challenging for business owners because it's like, you kind of have to like make a decision and then just like commit. And that can be really hard because you're like, I don't wanna make the wrong choice. You know? And I think like, of course you can change your decision at any time, but I do think that there's a level of, intentionality and like reflection that I think we all need to do as business owners when we're starting to be like, what's my message and what platforms are gonna be the ones that really do allow us to like be seen and shine? And I know as my business and like path is shifting, I'm asking myself these questions, like where are the platforms? Is it TikTok? Do I have resistance because I actually am supposed to be there? You know, like I'm playing into that, like is this misalignment or is this resistance and playing into like, mm, like this This is a sticky spot for me. I don't know if you feel the same with, with platforms. But I know that that's something that I work with a lot of my clients, because they're like super kind of ADD, like, I want to do everything. I want to be on all platforms. I want to talk about all the things. And I'm like, I know. And you can't.

I feel this so much. Don't you feel like you were talking about, you know, where are the platforms that I feel the least inhibited?

Or, you know, where I feel like I can be my fullest expression.

Don't you feel like— I don't know, like podcasting?

Yes.

I just feel like the podcast is, for me, and equally I'm guessing for you, is like the place that's the juiciest, at least right now.

Oh my God, you said that, look at my goosebumps! You can like see them. Like, I'm like, I full body— like, I'm like, I can be the bigness of me. You can be— you can be you. Like, I love the little snippets when you do your Reels and TikToks, and it's cute and all, You know, but it's like, I'm like, yo, Sam's way fucking deeper than this shit. And I think that's like, we have that, like, we have so much depth that TikTok and Reels, like, they're great, they're fun, you know, but I'm like, no, like, this is the juicy shit that I want to talk about.

Yeah, because it's very surface. I mean, everything else is really surface because that's just, that's how far, how deep can you go in 7 to 15 seconds? How deep can you go in a photo?

Childhood trauma.

But like that, and then, and then what, you know? And I think that's also, in my experience on TikTok, I think that's one of the— at least with shorter form content, that is one of the, the biggest issues, or challenges rather, that I see with it is that it is designed to be the storefront. Yeah, it's not designed to be the whole message or the whole meal or the whole transformation. It's, it's just, you're just looking at the menu, you know, you're, you're just looking at the storefront. And so then people misconstrue things or they're like, well, what about this? And what about if someone is like this or wants to do this? Or, and it's like, one of my pet peeves about that kind of thing, especially with social media is like, if you cannot recognize that there is fucking nuance to every situation and scenario, like, just get out. Like, just, just get out. Just get out of this space.

Try being a fucking content creator. Hello? Like, the people that are commenting this, like, have no idea, like, the amount of time that is required to put out content that we do because we love it. But it's like, bro, go, go do something else with your time.

Yeah, like, oh, I'm so sorry I didn't figure out a way to put, um, 25 years of experience and situations and nuances into a 7-second reel.

Bye.

Like, what do you want from me? So I think, yeah, like, that's— I— and, and for people like you and I who really love— like, we're both Sagittarius, right? We love philosophical conversations. We love depth. Like, small talk is the antithesis to, like, who we are. And so I think those things can feel kind of like that, which is like you know, like, what am I just gonna stand here and like point or like dance around? And you're like, no, I want to like go deep and have soul conversations. And that's, that's so you and I, which is why usually when we record podcasts, we record for like 90 minutes because we like brevity. Brevity is just like not who we are.

Yeah, it's not it. And it's like, it actually requires so much work for me to be concise, you know, like, and I love and I very much appreciate people that can be that. And, you know, like, I do my best, but also I think that a lot of gold comes out in the space of conversations like this, you know, like if we were like, okay, 5 tips to blah, blah, blah, blah, it's like, yeah, there might be some like good stuff in there. Of course, you know, you're going to learn some shit. But I also do think that just the way like our embodiment, you know, like it takes a little time to let the like codes of who we are and how we think and our level of consciousness and all that shit like that takes time to reveal itself in a conversation, you know. So I do think like for the person that's, that's growing their business that does have this element to them that like they do really value the depth and this, this like I would say like spaciousness. I feel like podcasting is such a spacious medium, and I love space and freedom, and it definitely feels that way. Um, that's like, it's such a great platform for self-expression. And I think having an accompanying shorter format platform like TikTok or Instagram or even Facebook— I know some people are on Facebook. Um, I don't know who those peeps are. Just kidding. Um, no, I've actually been using Facebook recently. But yeah, I do think like having both, you know, because it's like, okay, we can do all the deep conversations, but also like there's a lot of play and fun that's happening that I want to share too. And then like it gets, it gets to be both. So I think, yeah, I do, I do believe that in all of the unknown and in all of the like shifting and all that stuff, I will say that podcasting has always been something I've come back to. That's just like, I just love it so much. In my— I would do this. I don't even care if it didn't result in anything. I love podcasting so fucking much. So much. So much. I could record a podcast every day. I always tell my assistant that. She's like, I just don't think I have the bandwidth. I was like, that's OK. We don't need to do that.

You're like, I'll hold back for now. Yeah.

Oh my God.

Well, I, I think, yeah, there's like this duality to it, like you were mentioning. Um, having both and being able to, to do both and play in both is a really important piece. And I think objectively, like, you and I, we, we do that well. We do our best to kind of like find our balance in both. But I, like you, find that I'm most self-expressed when I have the spaciousness, which is why I think the podcast resonates with so many people because there is that time to like get into the juice and the depth.

But yeah.

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Yeah, it— this has been coming up a ton for me. And actually, like, maybe this is like what we can kind of like go into the next top, like, topic-ish is I've been, um, so like, you know, like what I was doing in my business, like I was coaching women on like food and body stuff. And then I started doing business and Um, like I haven't announced this to the world yet, but like I am 100— like I just dissolved my business mentorship and, um, I am going to be letting go of like straight up traditional, like air quotes, business coaching. Like I'm not going to be helping women build businesses per se, but what feels most resonant for me right now is actually is this really interesting intersection of lifestyle and leadership and self-expression, embodiment, basically helping women who know they have this voice, they have something to say, they have something to share, or they're already doing it, but they're totally holding themselves back. Really find their unique self-expression. Because I personally am on my journey right now. I'm actually— I feel like I'm really landing in who I am at 31. Like, I'm like, oh, this is me. Even with my haircut, I'm like, this is very much way more me. Like, what I've been purchasing for clothing, like, shit like that. Like, I'm like, oh, I actually don't like this shit. Like, for so long, I didn't really know who I was. And so I was kind of like, Oh, I'll do this and be this and whatever. And I think there's this level of like coming back to like what, what is like pleasurable, like what is so like is me, you know, and, and really helping like women connect back to that, connect back to like their purpose, their truest self-expression, just because Dude, social media is, is fucking crazy, you know. I have gone through so many ups and downs with it, and, um, I'm really realizing just like how much it's had an impact on me in both positive and negative ways. Like, it's been really, really impactful, but like wanting to really stand firm in my truth and like my messaging, and that's been a challenge when you're just constantly surrounded by other people, you know, just like subconsciously you just start doing things like other people are saying things and you're like, what am I even saying? So it's like staying in the integrity and the embodiment of like, I'm here to do blank, you know, and I'm curious just to hear if that's happened to you like this, this like distraction in this, oh, what am I focusing on? Like, what's actually mine to share? That's really what I'm landing in right now and helping other women do the same.

Yeah, well, I love that for you because I feel like that's— you are an embodiment of that, of that work. So I feel like that, that feels really fitting, um, for you because I think, yeah, you're so like— you're so open and transparent about your own journey into finding yourself and re-meeting yourself at every new phase and stage. It's not like, you know, oh, I found myself and, and now it's done, because we're constantly evolving and changing. And it's like that, okay, the new version of me? Who is she? And what does she want? And how is that going to be expressed? And how do I help people and serve from this place? So I think because you are so open and vulnerable and like transparent about that journey for yourself, that it makes a lot of sense for you to like guide other people in that. So I really love that. And I like, obviously, this is the first I'm hearing of it.

So you're the first person I've shared with.

I'm excited for you because it feels, it feels really, it feels, I mean, and I can tell like, it feels good. For you. You wouldn't be doing it if it didn't feel good for you. So that's always a good sign. I think, you know, I, I can kind of resonate with— towards the end of our time last year in the Queendom, I dissolved and retired all of my one-on-one life coaching. And I had some applications and women that were wanting to come in. And I finally like built the courage to set a boundary in my business of like, this isn't as exciting to me right now. It's not to say that I'll never do it again. But right now, what's most exciting to me, what feels the most expansive, and the juiciest, is when I am teaching women how to build a business, which is funny, because we're kind of like talking about opposite things here. But I just, I, I could feel the difference. And maybe anyone who's listening who is a coach or, you know, has a service of some kind, you can feel the difference when there's always going to be parts of your job that you like more than others. And as an entrepreneur, you wear many hats. And so that's always kind of, there's going to be an element of that in one way or another. But I think you can really feel the difference when you're showing up in a specific container or area of your business versus another one. And there's one that's like— or there's certain clients that you work with, and it's not necessarily because of the client themselves, but it's because of the themes and the topics and the conversations that are happening with that client where you're like, ooh, like, this feels so juicy. Like, you know, 60 minutes goes by really fast, or you can talk to that client forever, or you're always really excited to get on the next call with them because you know that the conversation is going to expand them and also expand you because it allows you to really like step into your power and you feel like you're, you know, really radiating like knowledge and inspiration to this other person. And that feels good for, for both of you. And when you feel that, that's great. But I think for some time I was ignoring that that was probably the direction that I should lean fully into. You know, I felt that with my clients that I was talking about building businesses and strategy and showing up online and how to, you know, build a personal brand and share your voice and spread your mission and the work that we want to do in the world and creating six-figure spiritual businesses and all this stuff. And so I felt that, like, spark whenever I was having those conversations. 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You know what's interesting about that is it almost shows up in my opinion, outside of your business first. I don't know if that feels true for you, but like for me, it's— it hasn't— it didn't show up in my business like, oh, like you shouldn't be doing business coaching anymore, like blah, blah, blah. It wasn't that. It was I started getting really curious about pleasure and really curious around fashion and really curious around, um, like, uh, lifestyle. Like, like things that, that are just like, oh, like I'm reading this book, or like really interested about trauma, like all these things, right? And it's like how all these things play out. And it almost is like the things that you're Googling or the things that you're going through, the things that you're deeply craving more, more information and like, ooh, like this feels like there's so much here for me. Like, that's the thing, you know, like it could be scary. It doesn't, doesn't necessarily give you an answer like, oh, you're going to make a group program out of this thing. It's like I'm very much in the phase of like, I don't know what this means. I just know that I need to follow it, you know? And That's how it feels is like, oh my goodness, like everything I thought my business was gonna be, it's not. It's like letting go of the attachment of like what we thought it was gonna be and how much surrendering, surrendering, surrendering, surrendering we have to do in order to birth the thing that we're really supposed to be doing next. Which is so scary and exciting, but scary.

But like, what you're describing is— I think it's so important because it's, it's you being the embodiment of the work. It's, it's your natural interests and excitement that guides you down a path of things that you want to lean into, things that you want to learn about, things that you want to explore, things that you want to try on for yourself. And then you're like, wow, this feels really good. And I'm learning so much. And oh my gosh, a new perspective and my eyes are open. And, you know, maybe I can share this with somebody else and I can help somebody else. And I think that's the way that we're meant to do things. There's like that saying that's like, we teach what we most need to learn. And so it makes sense that the thing that we're excited about learning is the thing that we're excited about teaching. And it shows up for me in the same way. Like, it's, it's no surprise. The year that I spent over $45,000 in business mentorship because I was so fucking excited about this idea of, you know, forging a path and building something really meaningful is the year that I realized I want to help other people do this too. Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. I think that's been like, I'm in this place where I'm about to finish up with my, with Mel. Because I was kind of like a little delayed for you guys listening. Like, I joined the Queendom like 4 months later than Sam did. And so I'm finishing up like my time and I'm like so excited to not be in business mentorship, if that makes sense. Like, I'm so excited to just be living my life and like, let intuition really guide. And I think like That's, that's really like how I want to treat this year is trusting myself way more, like way, way more. I mean, God, I've invested. I mean, last year I looked, I don't know if you've done your taxes yet, but, or how that even works with you coming from Spain and all that shit. But I looked at my taxes and I was like, my bookkeeper's like, Sam, you invested $115,000 last year. Go, sis! Okay, I sure did, you know. And like, last year was a really expansive year for me. Like, I feel like I have so much now that I can like run with. Like, I haven't even integrated it at all. And, and I do believe like this year for me, especially being in the van— like, living in the van in itself has taught me so much, but living in the van plus integrating all the lessons and just being with myself and like, kind of just like letting life unfold. I, I never thought like I always had this version of myself that I was like, okay, I'm gonna always be beating myself. And I'm gonna make, okay, this year I'm gonna make this much and then I'm gonna grow and then I'm gonna, and it's gonna keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And this year I'm like, nope. This year, sure, I could get bigger, but that is not a goal. This year is all about like deep embodiment, pleasure, alignment, space, rest, actually getting just so crystal clear on where my heart's headed. Um, not investing in these high-ticket things anymore, like for right now, cuz it just doesn't feel good to do that. I'm like kind of over that right now. So yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that, if that lands for you, but it's, it's definitely an interesting space that I'm like, I'm not trying to beat myself anymore. I don't have anything to prove. Like, I'm, I'm like totally done with that, and I don't need to beat myself to think I'm improving. Like, money is not the only metric of success. Like, and it's, it's really never been the goal for me, but I think it's just easy to kind of let that number kind of keep you like, oh, I gotta make more. And next thing you know, you're like, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing?

Yeah, yeah. I, I had a similar realization recently in my business of, I think when you get of that, you know, need for it to be an uphill kind of like steady trajectory of, you know, okay, this many people in a program then means the next time should be this many people in a program, and this much money for launch means the next time it this much money for a launch. And we all know, either through experience in life or directly in business, that it just doesn't always work that way. And it's, it's not— your journey is never going to be linear with anything. I mean, like, we've all experienced this with health and so many other things too. It's like, oh, now that I've done this, you know, then this should be perfect and I should feel better about this. And it's like, well, actually, it's a roundabout fucking yip-de-dee-doo-dah circle clusterfuck of learning and growing. And, and yeah, I just, I really resonated with that idea of not needing to beat yourself at every, at every turn. And every accomplishment doesn't need to simply serve as the launchpad for the next thing that you're going to do and create. And I think that's where I definitely sometimes hold myself back is like, okay, I've created this thing and I'm standing on this platform now, right? And rather than like relishing the platform and being like, wow, look at this view, like this is fucking crazy, it's like you're— I'm already looking ahead to like, where am I going to jump next? Like, where's the next platform I have to get to? And I mean, we, we all do this in our lives. I think especially if you're a high-achieving person, it's like you get something and you— the whole time that you're working towards— this is the paradox, right? It's like the whole time that you're working towards something, you're thinking that getting there is going to be the thing that saves you. It's going to be the thing that makes you so insanely happy. It's going to be, yeah, that mountaintop moment where you're like, I've arrived, I did it, I'm done. I'm here. Oh my gosh. And every single time, you realize that it's not like that. You get there. And of course, there's excitement, and there's joy, and there's elation. And it's, it's like any dopamine hit that exists in our life, as simple as scrolling on Instagram. It's like you think that it's going to provide a level of satisfaction that just isn't provided by success or money or any of those other things. And I think, like, I was just watching some reels the other day of these, um, like, travel influencers and their videos, because it's, you know, it's— and I think again, yeah, okay, so it's a highlight reel and it looks amazing, but it's like all these different clips of amazing moments, a compilation of beautiful sunsets of cliff jumping, of running through sand dunes, of all these experiences. And then it's put to this music that like makes your skin— makes your hair stand up on your skin. And you're like, that must be what it feels like to be alive. Yes. And, and of course, again, it's a highlight reel. And so it, it looks better and it feels sexier in the reel than it probably even did in real life. But What stood out to me about that was like, I do have a craving for that feeling or that sense of aliveness. And I'm not going to get that at my desk. Mm-hmm. Working every day. I mean, my business is a huge part of affording me the freedom to do things like that and to feel that sense of aliveness. But there is an important distinction between thinking that, you know, money or success or whatever is going to be the thing that makes you feel the freest, and understanding that money and success are simply just stepping stones and tools along the journey to provide you the spaciousness and the opportunities to be able to experience the real things that make you feel alive, which is not money goals or numbers Yeah.

And I mean, at an even deeper level, it's like the freedom we seek is actually the internal freedom. It's like we think that by living on the beach and living in a van and blah, blah, blah is true freedom, and it's not. I live in a van. It's not true freedom. I'll tell you right now, I gotta take out my own pee. I have to dump poop out. Like, that's not freedom, right? Like, I love van life. I— it's fucking epic. But like, there's these things, right? True freedom is inside. It's emotional, right? Like, it really is. It's of the mind. It's knowing that like you are not your thoughts. Like, it's knowing that you have to release shit that doesn't serve you, and most of it's emotional. And it's like, that's the true freedom that we actually seek. Like we have to— the shit we have to let go of, like, yeah, of course it's, it's the business things and blah blah blah, but it's actually all the things inside of us that we're holding on to. And it's almost like, I mean, I know you feel this so deeply, but it's just like, it's so— I'm so grateful I chose to become an entrepreneur, like, kind of by accident, because it's almost like our— we would have never signed up for the work You know, like no one would ever intentionally put themselves through the amount of inner work required to, to move forward and create the thing. Because it's like the freedom we want requires such a deep level of surrender and letting go in order to create space. And no one, no one on planet Earth would ever choose this unless their life depended on it, literally, you know, like I know, like, your partner, mine, like, they're not in this space. They're not coaching, they're not teaching, they're not entrepreneurs, and they don't have to— air quotes— they don't have to do this work. They can live their life and be fine, right? And I'm over here like, bro, go do your inner work, go do your shadow work. And Kurt's like, I don't need to do that, I'm fine. And I'm like, fuck, you're right, he's fine, he's great, he's happy.

Yeah. Oh my God, it's kind of like, I think when people start to go down this path of spiritual awakening or doing the inner work and expanding their mind in some way, they— you do, you reach this point where you're like, I feel like I was happier when I didn't know how fucked I was, which is like the worst The worst sales pitch for you guys to like go and do your inner work.

Yeah, start a business, hire Sam. Which—

go, go learn personal freedom, hire Sam. Um, yeah, like worst sales pitch. Um, but there is, there's, there's this, there's this, there's this moment where you're like you, you actually do feel like ignorance is bliss in some way. Because before you knew about the limiting beliefs, and before you knew about the energetic blocks, and before you knew about the inner child wounding and the sisterhood wound, and before you knew about that stuff, you were just doing the best that you could with what you had, and you were cruising through life. And yeah, some things will be hard, and you're not gonna get everything that you want, and you're, you're not gonna— I think the biggest thing is like, it's a soul journey. Right? It's like your soul signed up to accomplish these things. And so if you're not doing the inner work, then, you know, you're not really living that fullest expression of what your soul came here to accomplish. But it's just funny, just funny. And I like— I think a lot of people don't understand that by being an entrepreneur or having a business of your own where you are in, in some way, shape, or form the product, let's say, right? That is a whole spiritual journey in and of itself. Because like you were saying, that's the thing that required us to do deeper inner work, because you can't continue to show up and be seen and share your voice and spread a message and sell yourself as a product. I don't like saying it that way, but it kind of is the best thing to get it across. You're not going to be able to do that if you're not also simultaneously willing to look at the wounding and the patterns and the thoughts and everything that is behind that, or that's preventing you from really doing that in a more powerful way. So yeah, by, by becoming a business owner, by becoming a coach, by being an entrepreneur, you are signing up to do some deep fucking inner work because it's all revealed. It's like, it's like starting a business is like getting into a relationship. You think that you're good because it's just you. You're like, oh, everything is fine. I'm, you know, I'm really good. I'm super healthy. I am— I don't have any triggers. And then you get in a relationship with someone and they start doing shit that mirrors back to you. Oh, those are my wounds. That's the place where I feel triggered. That's the place where I don't feel seen. This is an area where I don't feel heard. This is where I feel scared. Oh, interesting. And the same thing happens when you start building a business. Like, all the shadows, they just come the fuck out of the closet and you're like, whoa, bitch, what is happening?

Yeah. Oh my God. I mean, I mean, I think that's, that's the thing though, is like, I am so— I mean, I love Kurt. He is like so my soulmate, and I used to think like he had all the problems. And then like, I'm sure like so many women can relate to this. Like, you're like, I'm the fucking angel and my partner's just, oh, he has so many issues. He doesn't see me. He doesn't this. He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't. And it's like, hey, guess what? It's up to you. It's up to you. To see yourself, bitch, you know? And it's the same with your business. It's like, oh my gosh, like, they don't like my content. Like, they don't love me. Like, they don't buy from me. It's like, it's up to you to love your content. It's up to you to support yourself. Like, it's, it's crazy just how— I mean, my relationship with Kurt 100% has just shown me all the lessons. Like, there's so many parallels in a relationship from, from control to being seen to being loved to just how we show up in the world and, and, and how we show up on social media. It's like so similar. It's really, it's really beautiful. Um, but I do believe that like Kurt and I went— started going to therapy because I was like, I really want to just like see what there is, you know? Like there wasn't anything necessarily wrong like there's nothing like going bad, um, but we had never gone and I was like, we've been together for like 3 years, like let's go. Have you guys gone?

No, we've never gone and we've been together for 7 years. Don't out me, I feel bad now.

No, it's not a bad thing, it's just like it was kind of one of those things where like Kurt's going through so much with his family right now and I was like, I feel like it would just be good to have someone to like, like hold space for both of us, you know? Like I'm not able to do that for you, and you can do that for me, and blah blah. So, but it's been so good. It sheds so much light on just like the ways in which I thought, and, and like my thought patterns and how they either weren't true or how my expectations were so high for him. And I'm like, ooh, interesting. Like, I expected Kurt to be like XYZ, ABCD, and I'm like, ooh, Ooh, where am I projecting that onto my audience? Like, where am I projecting that onto my business? Where am I projecting that onto myself? Like, where do I hold these insanely high expectations for myself and therefore other people? And that's been my super, like, I don't know, I guess like a really big revelation for me recently is like, wow. Like I knew I have high expectations and like, you know, but I didn't realize just like how big they were. And it's like, oh, like, he's a human, I'm a human running a business.

Yeah. And it touches everything. It's like that saying, that's, um, the way that you do one thing is the way that you do everything. And I think that kind of applies to what you're talking about because it's like you can take those big monumentous expectations and see how they're not only showing up in your relationship to your partner, but also in your relationship to yourself and also in your relationship to your audience or your business. And yeah, like, I think that's the challenging part of doing all of this work is that you, you get the opportunity to, to meet different parts of yourself and unpack that and explore it and see how you want to move forward with it.

Yeah, yeah, it's— I think like it's, it's really valuable too for, for business owners to look at a part. Like if you're, if you're building a business, it's almost like sometimes like triggers don't show up in your business like, or they don't show up in the way that you would think. Let's just say, I don't know, but maybe they show up in your relationship or maybe they show up when you look at yourself in the mirror, right? Like, and maybe they show up with friends or with food. Like, everything is the same, you know? And I know when I was really working with women on, on their relationship with food, I used to always say like, your relationship with food is a mirror for your— for the relationship that you have with everything else. And it's like, if you're a fast eater, you probably go through life like really fucking fast, right? If you feel guilty when you eat a brownie, like you probably feel guilty for resting and enjoying yourself and having pleasure. And like, there's, there's so many parallels, but I know that from my experience, it's like, it's almost like having ego death after ego death after ego death to know that there's nothing wrong with you for having like control issues or being a fast eater or like blaming your partner for shit. It doesn't make you a bad person. It's just an opportunity for you to grow and evolve. And I think that's like the beautiful part about entrepreneurship and launching things. Posting on social media. It's like every day you're getting an opportunity for soul growth. I mean, multiple times throughout the day. And multiple times throughout the day, there's an opportunity for you to either lean into the victim of like, oh, they don't love me. Oh, this. Oh, this. Oh, this. It's not working. It's not working. Oh my gosh. Or to hold the vision you have for yourself and stay in your power.. And, and that has been coming up for me a ton, especially as it relates to this like shift in my business. Because I've been like, oh my god, like, what am I doing? Like, ah, you know, I'm kind of having this like, my ego's like, Sam, you're a mess. You're all over the place. Like, what are you gonna do? You know, like, you don't know how. And my like highest self is like, no, you know what you're doing. All you need to do is keep doing what you're doing. You don't need to course correct. You don't need to buy something. You don't need to like have a panic attack on the internet. Like, you don't need to— just allow yourself to be in this like fertile period where you're, you're staying in your power, you know? And it's just like noticing all the micro moments when you're not, all the micro moments when you blame, all the micro moments when you feel like life's out to get you, or when the business isn't working, or social media is trash, or the mentor is not doing enough. Like, notice where you're giving away your power, because I truly believe that coming back, like what you said earlier, is like coming back to the present moment of like, if I can just do one thing at a time, or if I can stay present moment to moment, that's where my power is. Like that's where our power is, is in the present moment. And I think too often we go to the past of I did this, so I should be able to do this next time. I got 10 people in my program, so I should get to be able to get 20, right? Like you're living in the past or future tripping, which is like when I have this, I'll be happy. And it's like, no, how can you find just presence in the present moment? Like you don't need to be happy. You just need to be in the present moment and feel the thing, Because right now, in this very present moment, I'm like, I feel powerful. I feel like, oof, we are in this conversation. But maybe in 20 minutes, I'm gonna feel like crying because I'm like, fuck, what am I doing? You know, it's just like being in it but not attaching on, you know. It's like being in it, noticing it, and not attaching so we can move forward and not let it get stuck in us and be on that, like, kind of repeat cycle situation?

I think it's— we're always trying to escape. It's that— I think the escapism is what— is what you're describing of, you know, oh, I've reached this new place and I'm confused, or I'm overwhelmed, or I'm, you know, I don't know what to do next. Or you feel some type of way and you want to get out of that feeling, and so you're like, what do I need to buy?

What do I need to do next?

Who's the next person I need to hire? Someone needs to fix this for me. You know, what, what needs to change in my business so that this isn't the case? You know, maybe I'm not getting enough clients, or I'm not making enough money. Okay, let's fix it. Let's escape the moment of where we are. And let's go into solution mode. And like, this is so natural, we all do this. And I think even in the most recent launch of my business mastermind program, Abundant and Ambitious, I was noticing that the launch was going in a different direction than what I had expected. Because when we talk— we talked before about it was this way once, so the natural progression, or what would make sense, or what I'm inferencing or thinking is the next thing that's going to happen, is going to be this. Yeah. And it wasn't that. It was something different. And it's not that it was bad, but it was just different. But because I had jumped into solution mode— solution means there's a problem.

Mm.

So when you jump into solution mode too quickly, you then convince yourself that what is happening right now in the present circumstance is in fact a problem. Yeah. And that— whoa, right? So So in that experience, I realized, why am I trying to fix something that's not actually a problem? There's nothing wrong with, with what's happening right now. There's nothing wrong with different. There's nothing wrong with new. There's nothing wrong. Why am I— yeah, why am I, why am I making it wrong? Because it's not matching up to an image that I had in my mind that was just an imaginary thing. Yeah, no. So when we stop making it wrong, when we stop immediately trying to escape and jump into problem-solving mode, we can accept that, oh, it's not actually a problem, it's just what is. And so what do I want to do with that?

Yeah, well, and that speaks— I think that speaks volumes to the type of person that we're all like working towards being, right, is like instead of feeling like we're this kid having a temper tantrum, needing to get the hell out of the, of the moment, to be like, huh, I notice that it's really uncomfortable for me being here. Like, I'm in a place personally where I'm very uncomfortable. I like, just straight up, I'm like, what is happening? I've never been in the place where I don't have a clear direction and I'm not determined as fuck. Like, I'm determined as fuck to get out of the situation. That's what I'm determined as fuck, right? And it's like, it's so funny since the whole situation with us, like, waiting for the van and then it being delayed and delayed and delayed. And then we got the van in December and now it's March and then we had to put it on pause and now we're in Rhode Island and we're paused and it's like, Christ, I think I'm just going to keep getting this lesson of surrender until I learn it. It and just say, okay, okay. But it's like, apparently my ego is very, very resistant. Like, I can feel it. Like, I almost feel this, like, um, it feels like I need to go do ayahuasca. That's actually what it feels like. I know that's kind of crazy, but I feel like that's the only thing that's going to completely just actually strip me of the control my ego seeks so, so deeply. And it's like, try to control— funny— try to control the biz. And it's like, yo, all right, I get it.

It's so funny that you, that you say that because I literally just had a therapy session the other day with my hypnotherapist.

Yeah.

And she was like, have you ever thought about going and doing plant medicine, like ayahuasca or something?

Oh my God, are we gonna do it together?

And I was like, I mean, obviously I've thought about it, and I think for sure it'll be part of the journey at some point. And I was, I was explaining to her, like, I just don't feel like it's right now because I have so many other moving parts in my life and in my business that I feel like need attending to. I don't— I, I almost don't want to receive another universal assignment that's going to tell me to burn it all down or change another thing massively. And she was like, and that's the control, right? It's like, the reason why I would not want to do it is because I know probably there's an intuitive feeling that the message is going to be stop fucking doing it. Something. Yeah, burn it all down. Like, and I'm terrified of that because I'm like, wait, but I'm almost there. I have to, you know, I'm shopping for a house. I got to get a house. I got to get myself settled. I'm shifting my business. I'm going into, you know, more business mentorship. I have new programs that I want to birth. And, and, and that's the control of like, I want to do everything neatly in my way. And then when it's perfect, when it feels— ah, then I'll go and I'll do the plant medicine. And it's just funny because we know that like that moment is not coming.

Yeah, yeah. But somehow we always believe that it is, no matter how far we are in our journey. It's like, but, but, but, but, but when, but when, but when?

Yeah, it's like, what the fuck? Like It— we know this, everybody knows this, we've talked about it so many times, everybody listening to this knows this. I'll be happy when, I'll be happy if, I'll be happy— and we all know that it's not real, that the landing, the next landing pad that you get to, like we were talking about before, is you're not even gonna— you're not even gonna take it as a vantage point to look at the view, you're just gonna think of it as a landing pad to jump to the next thing. But we still get caught in that, that cycle of like, oh my gosh, I am finding myself thinking that once I do this, or once I achieve this, or once I get here, then things will be easier or more comfortable or more smooth or whatever it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think, I mean, truly, that's, that's like the path of life is like, how much can we really surrender? Control because like we cause ourselves so much suffering just by holding on, by attaching, by not letting go. There's, um, there's a book that Kurt got me actually when I hosted my last retreat in Sedona. We were at this like really cool like little restaurant, outdoor cafe, like had like some like really cool herbal things and like yoni steams and like it was really, it was a really, really cool spot.. And I like pointed at the book because it was bright yellow and I just like love yellow. I also think like yellow is like solar plexus and like I really feel like that's my chakra to like really examine and like jump in with my clients too. And it always comes up like confidence, will, discipline, all that. And I pointed at the book and then I was like, ooh, that looks great. I feel like I need to do more of that. And then like an hour later we like, I don't know, we were like talking at dinner and then he like went to the bathroom, air quotes, and came back with a book. And I was like, oh, you're so sweet, like, thanks. And I started reading it and I was just like, oh my God, like, humans are hilarious. Like, all we do all day is cause ourselves suffering. And it's like, Like, I've read so much like Eckhart Tolle, and like, I think just it's almost like we need to just remind ourselves of this like every day. It like is truly like, let that shit go. Let it go. Let it go. Let go of any— and I think, I don't know, I don't know if this is like good or bad or if it just is, but it's like, this is why I kind of don't make plans. In my life. Like, I don't make goals. I always need to think like, oh, it's because I'm scared of not meeting them. And it's like, no, it's just because every fucking plan I make always changes. And it's like, it's nice to have like a vision and intention, but I really just— I don't know, there's just like so much power in not doing that. And really surrendering to just be like, okay, what wants to be said through me? What want— like, use me, use me, universe, take me, fucking, I'm here, I'm a channel. Like, what am I here for? Because I don't want to be trying to do something I think I'm supposed to be doing because it's just going to end up blowing up in my face. And I think that is something I've really— like, a skill I've really cultivated is like trusting that path and always following it. But I think right now, because I'm in this like position where I'm like, is coaching really where I want to spend like so much of my time? Like I'm, I'm really asking myself this question of like, huh? You know, it's, it's making me curious and it's definitely scary. But I do think that like fear for me has always been the path. You know, like what I'm scared of. I'm fucking scared shitless of ayahuasca. Like, I remember I did acid with Kurt and, well, he probably doesn't want me to say this, but whatever. Okay. It wasn't Kurt, guys. Whatever.

He was another guy named Kurt.

His name was not Kurt. Um, but anyways, we did that. I had that experience and like, I remember I was like, I was on this edge. Have you ever done it? No. Okay. Have you ever done mushrooms? Yes. Okay. So, you know, with mushrooms, like, you're, you're tripping. Well, the moment before you start realizing you're tripping and then like something happens and you start to notice like something starts to move or you like realize you've been fucking staring at something for like 20 minutes, right? It's that moment. Moment of like, oh, we're in it, right?

With its beginning.

Yeah, yeah, with my experience with acid. I haven't talked about this, but hopefully it's cool. Um, it was very much I either have a freak out and I try to control, or I just like surrender. And Kurt had experienced it before, and so he was like with me and I like had to— we were hiking and I had to like sit down on a rock and I was just like, oh my God, like, and I could feel it. I could feel my ego like dissolving. Like I was just like, ah, melting.

Like it was like, bitch, sit the fuck down. Timeout. You need a timeout.

Definitely needed a timeout. And he was like, Sam, he's like, take a breath. And I was like, okay, thank you. I was like, I was breathing on screen. He's like, and then I remember I just kept saying the mantra, like, I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm okay, I'm safe. And I'm pretty sure like it turned into like a little song. And then I just started laughing hysterically. And it turned into just so much fun. Like it was just a great day in the woods. Like where I was just so present, so there, so happy. But it was this moment of like— and the reason why I'm sharing this story is because it's like this moment of, do I attach and freak and cause myself the stress and the anxiety and the— or do I choose to even more deeply surrender? And I feel like I've been on this seesaw of of like kind of going back and forth like, okay, I'm good, I'm trusting, I'm following what feels good, I'm showing up, I'm, you know, blah, blah, blah. And holy shitballs, I'm freaking out, man. I'm freaking out, right? And it's like, I'm freaking out, man. It's like oscillating between the two. And yeah, I mean, I think that's, I think that's pretty normal for humans. But it's really fascinating to notice the like moments in which you can choose which way you decide to go, you know?

Yeah, yeah, totally, because it is a choice. But in the moment, sometimes we forget that we have a choice and we just, we just go to the default. So if you're default— yeah, if your default is control, fix, change, then that's going to be naturally where you move to in any situation that feels uncomfortable. Like we've been talking about. And yeah, it's like, I think it's, it's a practice of noticing that you have a choice in those moments. And I don't know if you notice this for yourself, but there are also moments where you become conscious of like, okay, I have a choice here. When you get triggered by something or a situation feels uncomfortable or something's not working in your life or in your business, and you're like about to go into the, like, I need to control this sort of thing, Yeah. Or you're about to be reactive, maybe in some way, and you realize because you've done enough inner work to like have that self-awareness of like, this is the moment where I could choose to be different. Yes. And there— but there are interesting, very interesting times where you have the awareness of this is the moment where I could choose to be different and you choose not to.

Yes. Oh, I just had goosebumps. Has there been a moment like that for you recently?

Um, I mean, this, this does happen to me. I'm speaking from experience when I talk about that. I'm trying to think of if there's any like specific example that I could give that would really— well, okay, so I, I told you recently that I'm in hypnotherapy, and one of the things that I'm working on is this anxious habit that I've had since I was a kid, which is chewing the inside of my mouth, like chewing the inside of my cheek if I'm watching a scary movie, or if I feel like I'm in a rush, or if I'm really excited about something, or I have a new idea, or I feel anxious for whatever reason, it's like something that I go to. And it's like a self-soothing kind of tactic. But it's totally like a, like a compulsive behavior that is now unconscious. Yeah. And so we're working through that. And we had a conversation the other day about, or we have this conversation a lot, but about becoming aware of the moments where I start to do that habit and recognizing that I'm investing a lot of time and effort and intentionality into releasing this habit and letting it go. But there are still times where I notice myself doing it, and I'm like, now is the moment where you could choose to be different. Now is the moment where you could choose to stop. And I go, I'm gonna do it for a little bit more and then I'll stop. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah. And those moments are so interesting. And I think maybe, like, maybe you experience this with your kind of, like, anxious habits, but it's like— and this for anybody who's like, you know, you're really inspired or motivated to maybe respond to your partner differently when the argument that you have a lot that comes up, or, you know, they do something that usually pisses you off, and you're like, I want to be less reactive, I want to be better at responding to this situation. But then you notice yourself in that situation being like, no, but I'm pissed, so I'm just gonna be pissed. Like, it is hard to deviate from the way that we've constructed ourselves to be. That's why it's It's a practice. But I think not being hard on ourselves in those moments is so important. And we have the awareness of, oh, here's a moment where I could choose to be different. And then now we also have the added awareness of, and I've chosen to not take that path. I've chosen to stay the same for a little bit longer. And what is there? What is there in that for me to learn from, right? What is that trying to teach me or show me or tell me?

Yes. So what, like, the thing that just came up for me, and I'll share, like, I totally have habits like that as well. But like this feeling of like not being, not being hard on ourselves when we do the thing, like when we're like, oh, we bit the inside of our mouth or whatever. It's like that's an opportunity for us to meet ourselves with love. And it's like, that's actually what matters. It's not about the inside of your mouth. It's like, how do you meet that moment? Do you meet it with love? Do you meet it with criticism? Do you meet it with, fuck you, Sam, you did it again? Like, how do you meet it? And often we meet it by default, how our parents disciplined us. So like, like I grew up with like my dad being super, um, like, I don't want to say aggressive, but like very like authoritarian, or like really like kind of almost like military, even though he wasn't. But like, that's how he was. It was like, it was his way or the highway. When I did something wrong, I was bad and I was not given love. And so that's how I was taught to treat myself, right? Like when I messed up, when I didn't have it together, when I made a stupid money decision, when I blah blah blah blah blah, always met myself with criticism, shame, self-hate, self-loathing, self-destruction, basically. And it's now been for me this— I'm so glad we got here, and I don't even know how, but I'm really grateful. This is exactly the piece that I'm working on, is meeting myself with love when I don't choose the thing that my highest self would have, air quotes, chosen. Person. And whether it's in business, in relationship with myself, habits, like, I mean, it's really crazy. And there's— these are such subtle moments. They're so micro, like, so, so, so small, but they matter so much. You know, like, it's— it, it kind of goes deeper than like even inner critic, because it's almost like you don't hear you might not even hear this voice. This voice is like so unconscious, but you feel bad, you know? And it's almost like, for me, some of those habits look like— I mean, I shared, I've been sharing recently about like how I pull out my hair when I'm stressed and how that's been going on since I was like 10 years old. And at like 20-something, I realized like, oh, this is actually a form of OCD. This actually has a name. It's trichotillomania. It's a body repetitive disorder. It's, um, there's many types. There's skin picking, I also have that one. There's hair pulling, there's nail biting, like all these things. And like choosing to be like, okay, I'm not the only one that experiences it. This— I've actually had some people open up to me about their story around this, like, oh, I do it too, or I have a client that did it. And I was like, what? This is so cool, like hell yeah, you know. But I used to feel so ashamed of the thing. And then I started moving to like disappointment. And then it started moving to like a neutral place. And I think that's the place I'm at now. It's kind of neutral. Like, I'm just like, okay, I'm like, it's not the end of the world. Like, I'm okay. I'm safe in this moment. I have food in this moment. I have a roof over my head. Like, all my needs are met. I'm okay. Okay. Okay. Like, and it's almost like these are the moments that we get to re-parent ourselves truly. These little fucking baby micro moments. Like, I'm also working on an anxious habit of not eating at night. Like, I have such a bad habit of just like, it's not like anything crazy. Like, as a former binge eater and like all that, like, it's not bad at all. It's just eating a little bit more than I necessarily need. You know, it's just like, it's soothing. It's totally self-soothing. And I'm like, ooh, what is that? Like, it's, it's this like curiosity of like, why do I do that? Like, it almost like, it doesn't matter why we do it. It's more just like meeting ourselves in the moment to be like, mm, anxiety. I'm noticing this. What does this feel like? For me, it feels like this, like emptiness in my stomach, like this hollowness. And I like want it to go away. I want it to go away and I want to fix it. I want to control it. I want to solve it. And so I'll just kind of subconsciously eat. And now I've like brought this pattern to life and I've noticed like, oh, that's what that is. It's not— it's not even— it's like emotional eating, but it's on such a subconscious level that it's just this tinge of anxiety that I just don't want to experience. So then I just eat. And my default was like, what's the anxiety? What's the root cause? Where is it coming from? And it's like, it actually doesn't matter. Like, it— there's might— there might be a message there for me, and I can listen to that, but it's actually just about being with it and riding it out until it passes. And for me, it's like noticing the urge and let it pass. Noticing the urge to hire a mentor when I feel stuck for fucking 5 minutes, you know what I mean? To be like, Sam, No, like, you got this. And noticing that, like, it's these micro moments of like, can you ride out the discomfort? Can you ride it out? Can you ride it out? And maybe the answer is no, actually, you, you need support, like, go get yourself the support, right? And I'm doing that. I'm working with an energy healer and an intuitive medium right now. And she's super dope. But like, also, those micro moments are— they tell so much about us. Like, and I think, I mean, it shows up in your business, it shows up in your life. And I feel like people feel that. People feel the way that we treat ourselves.

I think so too. I totally think so too. And it— this kind of comes full circle as you're talking about this, because it goes back again to the escapism thing that we talked about. It's like you're in that moment of realizing that I had a chance to choose to be different or to do something in a different way, and I chose not to. And so now there's some level of discomfort of realizing that I'm doing something that I no longer want to be doing, and I could have stopped and I chose not to. And so now I want to escape. Yeah, I want to get away from it. So, you know, what's, what's wrong with me? How can I make myself the problem so that I can go into fixing mode and find the solution? Yeah, and it's really about witnessing and just noticing. And I, I think I for sure resonate with the feeling of the neutral energy. Like, I feel so much more neutral around the habit now, where I used to be hard on myself about it, of like, oh my God, like, what the fuck, like, why am I still doing that? And then it kind of moved to just like disappointment of like, oh Really? Like, this is still a thing? And now it's just kind of like, okay, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Has the hypnotherapy been working for you?

Yeah, it's been really helpful. I mean, I love the experience of it, and it's— I mean, we do, we do like hypnosis every single session, but there's also the, the therapy element of it, so It's nice. It definitely has been helping, and I've learned a lot of new techniques to kind of self-soothe and move through this. But yeah, I've really enjoyed it.

That's so good. That's awesome. Um, I've never done hypnotherapy, I don't think. I do like a lot of hypnosis, like at night, like I'll listen to all the like tracks and stuff, which I feel like I genuinely like those shit. That stuff helps me so much that I'm consistent with it. It's really, really powerful. Um, but something I—

conscious mind.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. I am so proud of myself. I just want to like humbly brag that I have been doing such an amazing job at not pulling out my hair. Like I have been so hyper-aware and like, cause like I got extensions, right. And so they were only $90, first of all. And I was like, this is the most worth it form of therapy for me. Like, I've gone to— I did cognitive behavioral therapy for it for 8 weeks, and I completely stopped. But then, like, it came back. And I was like, no, this feels like this is something for me to accomplish. Like, and I think that's like kind of part of like, this is kind of going full circle again of like, almost like not giving up for me. Not giving away my power to somebody else to heal me or fix me, but actually to be like, what do I feel like is a solution for me? And for me, it's like, get hair extensions. Why? I don't know, because I'll look prettier and like think my hair looks nice, and then I won't want to pull it out.

You won't want to ruin it.

Yeah. And it's like, if I pull out the hair, it's gonna fuck up my hair, and then I'm gonna look like a shithead, you know? Like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to go have to go back to the hairdresser and like be like, well, I fucked him up, you know? I don't want to do that. And it's almost like that Southern accent. Well, well, I fucked it up. I done messed up these hairs. That's what I did. Oh my God, it's the end of the day. Um, but yeah, like, I truly believe, like, you know, I mean, you obviously know, it's just like how powerful our mind is. And I just, I mean, I posted about it on social media and I was like, I'm fucking healing this. I'm like so determined. I'm so sick of trying to hide bald spots in my hair and like always having to put my hair up. And like, I don't want to do that. I want to leave my hair down. I want to feel sexy. I don't want to look like I just came from a workout all of the time. Like, it's just not what I want. And I think for me, it was so important to really get clear on the vision of like what, what I wanted my hair to look like, you know, and then be like, like, that is what I'm calling in. And it's like, in those micro moments of like, for me, it's not like I just like, I don't know how it is for you with like biting inside of your mouth. But like, for me, I like play with my hair and like, kind of fool around with it. And then like, eventually just like pull out a piece. Like, that's, that's what happens. And I just have kept my hands away from my hair. And the moment I noticed it, I'm like, no, Sam, no, like, keep them away. You're doing well. Like, keep focusing on the goal. And I'm like, I am so healing this myself. Like, I don't care. The internet's like, it can't be healed, or it can be healed, but like, the chances of healing it are so slim. And I'm like, bullshit, I'm doing it. Like, I don't care if I've had this fucking thing for 20 years. This year is the year I'm doing it. Like, I know how the mind works. I know how powerful awareness is. And I'm really just practicing that because I'm like, yo, I don't want to give my power to this condition or whatever. Like, oh, I have trich, I can just pull my hair out. It's the same with ADHD. I don't want to use that as like a reason to be, be unfocused and all the things, which I totally did for like the first 3 at least weeks of my diagnosis. I was like, well, that's why I'm a hot mess, that's why I'm disorganized, that's why I'm like, no. That is not a reason. I don't want to go down that road. Yeah, sure, my brain may be different, but that's not a reason for me to blame or etc., you know what I mean? Mm-hmm.

Well, my hypnotherapist said something interesting to me in one of our recent sessions about like having a rebel personality type. And if you have felt like you want to rebel, then maybe that's the the approach that you needed that was going to work best for you anyway, because your kind of like natural state or your subconscious programming is to rebel. And so you needed that rebel approach of like, well, I'm going to do it on my own then. If you say that I can't, then I'm going to do it. And maybe that's more motivating to you to prove it to yourself and to them, whoever that is, that it it can be done. And that feels more motivating to you than like, I need someone to help me fix this because that's not innately like how you operate.

Maybe. Totally. I mean, I'm such a rebel and that's why I started my business actually in the first place is because I actually had an old boss who was like, who, who like made a comment about my body and that set me off and I got abs Like 3 years later, I was like, you were like, watch, I'm gonna be shredded, bitch.

And then, and then you were like, joke's on me, I have an eating disorder.

What? Literally. Oh, that's fucked. But it's true, knowing, knowing like our, um, yeah, our, our drop, like our underlying— what would you call that? Like, because I used to kind of like—

what drives you?

Yeah, like a driver, like a core driver for sure. It is— that is so strong for me. Um, yeah, I kind of forgot about that. I actually think that that's something I need more of in my life. I need people to tell me I can't do it. I need people to be like, you're failing, so that I get to work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, I saw this video. Okay, we're gonna wrap up like right after this. Yeah. Um, but I saw this video of— I think it was one of the Pauls. Like, I think— I'm pretty sure it was Logan. Logan Paul.

Yeah.

And he— I wish I could remember exactly what he said because it was really good. But basically, you know, he was like, I'm the eternal optimist that believes that anything is possible and that I can achieve whatever and I can do anything. And but, you know, if the haters didn't exist, if you weren't part of the equation to tell me that I can't, or to believe that I can't, that there would be no story. There would be like— there has to be that duality of like, I say that I can and you say that I can't. So now we have like this symbiotic kind of relationship where we— it feeds one another, right? Like, you thinking that I can't, you then get joy, pleasure, entertainment out of watching the journey. Because you're waiting for the failure. And by me thinking that I can and knowing that you're watching, waiting for me to fail, I get enjoyment out of the journey. And so, you know, we need each other in that kind of duality to make the story come alive. And I just thought that fit well with this conversation about the rebel kind of archetype that you and I may have that are, you know, is our kind of like subconscious motivating drive. It's like we need that other force. We need the equal and opposite so that we can function and kind of like move as we're meant to.

Oh my god. Yeah. That's so interesting. I feel like I want to research this more. This is something I like— I have like read that I read about this, but it was taught in a way— it was taught to me in a way that was like it was a saboteur, basically. Like, and I didn't like that because it kind of made me feel like bad about having the rebel because I actually think the rebel is really valuable. You know, the rebel is so fucking driven, and I know that's like a really, really strong part of who I am. But I do wonder if that's, if that's why even in the past, um, it's almost like softness is not the approach I need. You know, like, I need the tough love. I need the bullshit calling. And like, I need it to be told to me real. And when I don't have that, I get kind of complacent.

Yeah, complacent.

I need the activating energy of like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, come on, you know? Like, why are you here? I mean, that's what I do for my clients. I'm like, let's go. Like, I act— I see you as that too. Like, but I'm like, I activate the shit out of them. They may get triggered, they may not like what I have to say, but good, good, because they're gonna go actually take action. I don't like being told that what I'm doing is correct, you know what I mean? I'm like, tell me something I don't know. Like, tell me, tell me a new thing, activate me. Like, I need to be kind of triggered in a way to be like, okay, fine, like, to take action. So it's inspiring me actually to get a little bit more salty with my content.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I can like see that for you. Um, yeah, I love that. This is like— this conversation has gone in such an interesting direction. Like, we started talking about like Instagram and TikTok and we ended here, which is just like the contrast. It's very interesting. But for everybody listening, if you made it this far, I hope you enjoyed the conversation. And I think this is a good representation of what we talked about towards the beginning in that podcasting allows us the spaciousness to actually squeeze the juice out of something. Like we would have never gotten to this conversation about anxious habits and meeting yourself and, you know, making the conscious choice to not change and do the quote unquote right thing. Like all of this I think is the real meat of the conversation today and we wouldn't have gotten here if we hadn't given ourselves space to traverse the conversation and let it flow.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty— it is pretty cool to just see how it evolves when you don't try to control it. Yeah.

Another full circle. I know. And that's what I love about when we jump on to podcast together because we don't really have a plan. We just kind of like, oh, we could talk about this, that, the other thing. I don't really know. Let's just hit record and see what happens.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like what feels present and go. And yeah, I really hope that you guys like enjoyed this and please let us know, like pop in our DMs and just any like what's— what was your biggest takeaway? That's what I always love hearing is like, what was the thing that really landed for you? Was it an analogy? Was it a sentence? Like, was it a part of our conversation? Like, because that's how we keep making these episodes based on like what is really landing for you. So Um, yeah, yeah. And we'll be doing this again in— what do we do, like, two— every two months, something like that?

Whenever we feel like we haven't talked in a while, we're like, yo, we should do another podcast. Yeah.

So yeah, be, uh, be excited for the next one of these to drop.

Yeah, you and I— this is, this is very, this is very, um, your energy of like, there's no plan, we're leaving it open-ended, we don't know when the next one is. Because everything changes. Um, but we will be in Tulum together in a couple of weeks, so I'm sure there'll be some content that happens with that. So stay tuned, you guys.

We're gonna have a sandwich.

Yes, we are gonna have a sandwich. Um, all right, thank you guys for listening. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being present with us. Again, send us your feedback. What did you love about this conversation? And if you did really enjoy it, take a screenshot wherever you're listening to it and just share it to your stories and tag both of We love you eternally, and we'll talk to you soon.

Bye! Love you guys!