Top 7 Coaching Industry Icks w/ Sam Altieri

Welcome to the Makeshift Happen podcast. I'm your host, Samantha Daly, entrepreneur, life coach, and your no BS bestie, here to bring you all things mindset, manifestation, and personal development. This podcast is designed to help you expand your mind and uplevel your life. So turn the volume up and roll the windows down if you're coming along for the ride. Let's go make shit happen.

What's up, guys? Welcome back to the show. I'm really excited to be here with you and with one of my favorite humans ever, Samantha Smith from Samantha Daily. I am so excited to be talking with you today about 7 coaching industry icks, things that both of us have started to observe and notice over our time in the industry. And we want to just spill the tea with you and just give you the scoop on basically things not to do in your coaching career and things we've observed that we've been like, um, hard pass. So hi Sam, welcome. I'm so glad you're here. Let's freaking do this.

Hi, I'm excited. I'm a little nervous. I'm a little nervous for this conversation. So, um, yeah, last night this idea just came to me in my head, Coaching Industry X, and I'm like, you know what, I can't have this conversation alone. I feel like it would be more fun, it would be more lighthearted if we did it together and we just bounced the ideas off of each other and kind of talked about it. So before we like dig into the 7x. We'll do our, like, disclaimer that you have to do on the internet nowadays so that people don't come for your throats. So we want this to be, like, fun and lighthearted and enjoyable to listen to, like some comic relief of maybe, like, the seriousness of, like, building a coaching business. Or if you are a coach in the space and you've been here for a while, just like kind of hahaha, like, yes, no, we're noticing these things. It's funny. Just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean that we have to adopt it ourselves or that we have to get like super upset that they're doing it. But they're— it's just like a funny observation and we want to keep it light. But also some of these things like are actual real problems and they are real things that we also want you guys to be able to look out for and be aware of, especially if you're someone who's hiring coaches or looking for a mentor, but also for those of you who are in the business, like being mindful of what you want your company, your brand, your business to look like and just overall your presence and like image and all those things. So yeah, the intention is not to be like mean girl vibes of like we're going to talk shit about people or anything like that. So not the intention. It's meant to be like fun but also informative. That's my disclaimer.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'll just piggyback off that. I think like at all, in all scenarios, like use discernment, right? Use discernment with what we're sharing. Use discernment on the internet. Trust your intuition. Know that when something feels off, It probably is. Um, and do your research. Like, you know, I think we've talked about that a lot when Sam and I podcast together. It's always like sharing our lessons and like being real with you. And I think one of the most important things is like, you're gonna go— you're maybe you've already experienced some of the things that we're gonna talk about and maybe you haven't yet. Um, which is awesome. So you don't have to either make some of the same mistakes that we have or just seen some of the things that are going on in the industry. But I think The bigger conversation that we really like, the bigger message that we really want to share is like how you show up online, like who you are being as the face of your brands and like how you want to be remembered, how you want to make people feel because people don't remember what you do. People remember how you make them feel. And I know from, you know, being in the online space now for almost 7 years and Sam, you've been on it almost just as long, I think. Um, it's— we meet— you meet a lot of people, and the people that really stand out are the ones that make you feel like wanted, you know, that make you feel loved, that make you feel like you can do it. Um, not the ones that bring you down or tell you all the reasons why you can't or whatever. So yeah, that would be my piggyback on the kind of disclaimer. And I'm really excited to have this conversation purely from a a really like neutral, emotionally removed perspective. Like we're just observing and just sharing with you our observations, kind of like we're doing like a little investigation. And I would encourage you with each one that we share to really like sit back and be like, does this feel true for me? Like, have I experienced this? Have I not experienced this? And just get curious with it.

Yeah. And hopefully we'll make you laugh along the way, right? Like it's meant to be fun.

Yeah, satire.

Exactly. Okay, so let's just— without further ado, let's get into it. I have the list of 7 in front of me and then we'll just kind of riff on each one. So, okay, I think we should start light and then we'll get into some of the deeper ones. So I'm actually going to go out of order. I'm going to go out of order and I'm just going to share one that I think is funny and light to begin with, which is breathing and moaning as a response to everything that anyone's Anyone? The hand holding the heart, the moaning on the podcast, like, mm, yeah, so get in.

Yeah, I feel you, Queen. Obviously, like, I think I've actually, like, done this before, but not like that long. Like, I've been like, oh yeah, mm-hmm.

I love a good, um, you know, a good is all right. But it's just hilarious the more that you notice it because it's like, who started that? And who, like, and then it just like caught on like wildfire and now everybody's doing it as if it makes them look like they're a better listener for some reason.

Yeah, yeah, or like more feminine, like, "Ooh, this is my intuition coming out of me." You know? Oh my God, yeah, that's, that's one that it's just kind of like a, it's a pass, it's a pass for me.

Yeah, it's gonna be a pass for me moaning on the podcast for you guys, but, um, okay, moving on. That one was very quick.

It was.

Very quick and to the point. Okay. The next one, when people use like boundaries as the answer to just like literally any question or problem ever. So my interpretation of this is like you present any kind of like problem or resistance or block or anything in your life or your business, and the coach is just like, mm, yeah, babe, what I'm hearing is this is an opportunity for you to set better boundaries. It's just like boundaries is then the answer for everything. Like people are just like, boundaries, like you need better boundaries. Boundaries.

Set a boundary high and tight. Keep them strong. Don't let anyone in. Build those walls, baby.

Yeah. Build those walls high.

And actually, yeah, right. Like, I'm like, no, boundaries are bridges. Like not walls, but like we've made somehow we've turned boundaries into walls and now we just are so unallowing of human behavior.

Yeah, I feel like that too. Like when, when the conversation about boundaries like first came on the scene, it was like so groundbreaking and like really helpful for people. But now with, I think, like the pandemic and everyone now, like, going to therapy and just the, the kind of rise of, like, coaching and personal development and everybody like TikTok especially, like, making all this sort of information viral. Yeah, everybody is like talking about boundaries and using boundaries. And I think sometimes we are— we can become too boundary. Like, we can create a version of our life where we're so inaccessible to people or like we've boundaried ourselves to be like in our home alone where we like don't like interact. So I think that's like interesting to notice that like escalation of we went from having no fucking boundaries to being like erratic, like people pleasers all over the place to now being like these boundaried little like little monks.

I don't know, friends, because we've boundaried all the people in our life because we're like, nope, nope, not good enough, not good enough. Nope, nope. And then we are like, why are we so lonely? Like, it's like Well, we went— we— I feel like this is a— this also is like happening generally in the collective of this like huge pendulum that's happening, like where we were in, like we were all in the super hyper-masculine, no boundaries, like just so, so wounded. Then we went all the way to the other side of like, feel the feelings, like set the boundaries, keep them high and tight. And now we're like, wait, actually we need to use discernment with Boundaries too, because yes, it is so easy to just be like, okay, boundary, like not available for that. Close, block, don't answer, blank. But does that actually expand you as a human? Like maybe sometimes it can, but I also think that to your point, like we can just use boundaries as a way to bypass what's actually happening, you know, instead of like opening ourselves up or being like, oh, there's something here for me to learn. Or this person actually said something very triggering to me. And that's an invitation for me to look within and not just completely shut them out and be like, they're wrong because that's not the truth. Like, you're not meeting that person with love. Setting a boundary should be coming from a place of love, not from a place of I don't have time for you or ego.

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Yeah, I think the, the point around saying like, well, it's funny just that like there's a lot of coaches that are, you know, they're early in the space or they're just kind of like regurgitating or copying like what they've heard other coaches say. And so then the advice gets like so watered down and simplified to just be like, oh, boundaries for everything. And the point in that is the point of mentioning that is like, well, yes, boundaries are valuable and a lot of us do need them, but also sometimes that's not the answer to this specific problem. And what you are saying is kind of like we can use this idea of like boundaries as an excuse to not have to have a hard conversation, like to not actually have to engage in a conflict or try to move through conflict resolution. It's just like, oh, cut it off. Like you need boundaries, like you're an energy vampire or you can't be part of my life because of whatever reason. And so we just like things that become hard, then we lose the ability to actually manage them or move through them. If the solution is always just boundary, meaning basically like cut that out of your life.

Yeah, yeah. I think it is a tool that's been misused or overused for sure. And I know like, you know, I think as you grow your platform and as you grow as a coach or creative, there's always going to be— you're always going to get negative feedback. That's just part of the game. You know, Sam and I went to Tony Robbins last year, and it was wild how we witnessed so many people love him so much. But then there's also the total polarity of so many people hate him. And like, I think we have to just be okay with that and know that you don't have to spend your energy on the people that don't like you, of course. But at the beginning, it actually might do you some service to listen to what people are saying. It's really important, like receiving feedback, you know. And I think taking your ego out of it a little bit and just being like, ooh, is there any truth in what this person has to say? Because you know what? Yes, maybe it was an inappropriate comment or whatever, whatever you want to set the boundary with. Or maybe it was something that someone shouldn't have said. And there might be some truth in it that you actually just haven't wanted to look at. So I would say like, don't use boundaries as the default. Like, no, it is a tool, but it's not the only tool, you know, go within. Like, it seems like people are ignoring the self-inquiry rather than just blaming other people. Like, that's like, that ain't cool.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Okay. So what are we on now? 3?

3. Yeah.

Okay. Number 3 is what I call like pedestaling yourself. And so I'll give some kind of like examples for everyone listening so they know what we're referring to with this. But this is kind of like a newer phenomenon that I've just been noticing in the coaching space, especially with like higher level coaches and things like that. It's like this way of almost bragging about how disconnected you are from your audience or from your community, like as if you are above having to engage with them or converse with them. It's like you're above the business practices, like you don't need any of it anymore. And so then you're shaming other people if they're at the start of their journey that are doing those types of things. So some examples are like, oh, I would never, I would never DM people, right? Like, oh my God, catch me in the DMs. Absolutely not. Right? So it's kind of like bragging about that, like disconnection of like, oh, I'm so good at what I do, or I'm— people are so obsessed with me that I don't need to do these certain things. Or, you know, when people are like, oh my God, ew, direct outreach is such gross energy. Like, people just come to me. Like, if you actually had a good service, like, you wouldn't need to message people. Like, you would just make sales being who you are. And while attraction marketing of course is like real, and yes, at some point you probably don't need to be utilizing direct outreach, I just think it's interesting to witness how like there's this like shaming around something that so many of us have done or utilized at the start of our businesses to just like get our foot in the door and like get started and not creating any context or space for the fact that like if you, if you don't have, if you don't have like followers, if you don't have an audience, if you don't, if you haven't built the community yet, then you're going to have to do something to build the community, which means you're going to need to talk to people, you're going to need to engage, you're going to need to start conversations. Another example of this, just again, is like being super boundary, like where people just have no access to you. They can't talk to you, they can't ask you questions. Like even in programs, you know, I've seen coaches being like, if they're like on a training on Zoom and someone like asks something in the chat, they're like, I don't answer questions in this container. This is like way too low of like a pay level for you to be able to ask me a question. So, you know, for that you need to like pay me more money or like join one-on-one or whatever it is. And I just think it's, it's more about like the language around it and this sort of like Yeah, like the pedestal, or like the I'm up here and you're down here. Like seeing, seeing people speak to their audiences in a way where it almost feels like they're talking down to them.

Yes. Yeah, 100%. I've experienced this many times being on the receiving end of that. And I think that's why— and I've also been through this. I've had, I had a season in my business which I'm not proud to, to share, but It's just what happens based on who I was around at the time where I did feel that way, which is like so not who I am. And I think it is really easy for coaches or just humans in general to see other behavior and be like, oh, I have to be like that in order to be more successful. And I honestly got swept away in that. And it, it really did not feel good because I had to override my natural instinct to have conversations with people. I am a very, um, friendly human and like I love people. I meet so many people out in person and I'm always talking to people and like I love me a good party, you know, like I love just like frolicking around. And at a certain point I think I thought I had to be like you're saying, be more boundaried than I actually was. Like I think I have great boundaries, but it, I took it to a new level and it actually didn't feel good because I had, I felt, literally felt in my body the separation between me and air quotes them. Right. I didn't feel like it was me and them. And I went to a, I went to an experience and that experience completely changed my life because the way that the facilitator created the experience was very much like you're in this with me. And I was like, wait, that's how I started my business. What the heck happened? What happened? When did I all of a sudden think I was better than people? And I'm like, oh my God, ego, like holy shit, right? And so like, I think like I have a big audience and I obviously built that from scratch. And I think that people think that people with bigger audiences don't have time for people. And I never want to make somebody feel like that. Like, when people come on my page, I want them to feel welcome, right? And it's like, if I was out in the world and somebody came up to me and I just straight up fucking ignored them, like, that isn't who I am, and that's not who you are. And I think that if you— if we actually took the narrative that's happening in the coaching industry where I'm up here and you guys are over there and you have to pay me to do all these things, which of course, like, I'm such a proponent of like creating programs and courses and mentorship, and you have to get compensated well for your gifts. But there comes a point where it's too much. It's like too like, uh-uh, like I can't even talk to you unless you've given me your credit card. Like, and that's just not who I will ever be as an entrepreneur. Like, you know, even at retreats, like you just hosted your first retreat. I've hosted two, about to host my third. And like, when I'm in those scenarios, I'm like, let's fucking hang out. Like, I'm not here to be this person who's like over here and you guys are over there. Like, that's not the vibe. I've never— I've always been the one that never fit in, and I never want to recreate that scenario for my people. Like, I want them to feel included. I want it to feel like a community. And so I think coming back to the point of why you started your business, which is to help people. And in order to help people, you have to be a good human. You have to lead with your heart and not your ego. And I think that's really like the underlying pattern of the pedestal thing is ego. It's like, yo, peeps need to do some ego work. Like, I had to check mine, right? And I'm on the other side of it, but like, I'm like, wow, that version of me was like so unattractive. And like, in a way I'm like, why didn't anyone tell me? But maybe nobody even realized and I just feel the— could feel it, but I'm sure that people felt it from my page, you know, I'm sure that that's how it felt and I don't feel that way anymore. And so I think really like the way around this is like, check yourself, you know, like fucking check yourself. Like you're not too good for anyone and you're not too good to talk to humans because guess what? Once you were that human, you were that human. So never forget where you came from. Like, don't forget that that is a part of you. And the second that you think you're better than people, like, people can feel it and they run, you know?

Yeah, it doesn't feel good. Like when you see posts like this or when you see content like this on social media, like, at least to me, I'm not like, oh my God, I love that you're like treating me like I'm an idiot. And I love, I love that you're like talking down to me as if I'm a useless, like, piece of shit. Or like, because I don't make like— because it's like things like, if you think like $10K a month is like a lot of money, then like you're not for me. And it's like, like legitimately like things like that where I'm like, yes, I get— totally get what you're saying. Like we're allowed to define like our ideal client and maybe that's not the type of person you want to work with. But I just think that there's a nicer way to communicate to your ideal people without shitting on the people who are not the ideal clients for you. Like, yeah, I don't know. I think and like I was telling you earlier, we had Mel Wells came into A&A just yesterday and we were having kind of like a little similar conversation on this piece around like the pedestal. And she was, you know, speaking to the girls about viewing your community as viewing your social media rather as a circle rather than as a stage. And so instead of you feeling like you're up on the stage with like a mic and you need to be like the boss or like, you know, the person that's like better than everyone, you're sitting in the circle with the people that have come to like commune with you and learn from you, but also share with you. So I think that's a beautiful illustration of just like the difference of how we can approach things.

Yeah, yeah. I think it all comes down to energy. Like, it really does, you know. Someone could say something and you can feel a completely different thing from them, right? So just be cognizant of that. You all listening, I'm sure you're super empathic and intuitive, and like, trust that. Like, trust the vibe you get because it's, it's real. Like, vibes don't lie. So just trust that someone could be, but know that but underneath, like, just trust yourself. That's all.

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Love you guys, and thanks for supporting makeshift happen. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the— that's the advice for that one. Trust yourself. If you are seeing content or reading something that feels like you're being talked down to, then you probably are. And maybe that's not the person that you want to work with then. Yeah. Okay. So number—

number 4.

Yes. This one is a big one. So it's the overpromising and underdelivering, which I know we have So much we could say on this. So I think we needed a deep breath before this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I feel like we could just breathe and be like, yeah, that's basically it.

That's what you need to know. There's a lot of— unfortunately, there's a lot of overpromising and underdelivering. And yeah, this is like— I remember when I first was getting started in the coaching space. And I remember hearing people talk about like, oh, like, have you had a negative experience with a coach before? Like, or like your clients might be like fearful of like signing up if they've had like a negative experience. And I was really like confused by that. And I was really thinking to myself like, why is everyone talking about that? Like when it comes to sales, that it may be like something that needs to be addressed with a potential client that they could have had like a negative experience that's going to like stop them from feeling confident and investing in themselves because that was so not my experience. And so all the time I was just like, what the fuck? Like, what are all these people having negative experiences with? Like, I've never been in a container or like worked with a coach where I was like, whoa, like you were not helpful or you didn't pay attention to me or you didn't deliver like what you said that you were going to. But, you know, being in like masterminds and speaking with other women that have also been in lots of other coaching containers that I've not been a part of and now, you you know, also talking to clients that have had certain experiences, I have seen more of this truth, which is there is actually a lot of people that are like, it's going to be amazing. And then it's like, literally fucking not.

Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, I've had one— I've only had like one main experience that was like, okay, I learned a lot from that. Would never do that again. But I have had, like you said, I have had clients come to me and invest and then just be like, look, I just need to tell you this. Like, I actually feel really nervous about this because my last experience, like, I just feel like I was super let down. Like I wasn't really helped. Like I didn't get the attention that I needed. Like, I just felt like they didn't care and they just like wanted my money and like, I, you know, reached out for help and they didn't, like, hear me. And it's like, that to me makes me sad, obviously, because it's like, who are these people? Um, but also I think that it's empowered me to be a better coach and over-deliver to a point. Obviously not to the point where I'm fucking answering messages in my sleep, but like, to the point where, like, I want my clients to feel seen and heard and understood. That's like what it is like when people feel like you actually are there for them. That's what fucking matters. Like, that's what coaching is, you know? If you can't make somebody feel seen, heard, understood, loved, and you, you feel this judgment from them, or you feel this like, ugh, I don't want to deal with you, that type of energy, which I've, I've been on the receiving end of that before. Or like, I'm too cool to answer. Like, I don't know. Like, it was just this vibe, this weird vibe that I've gotten that is like, why are you coaching? Like, why are you even doing this job if you don't like humans? Like, if you would rather like go be a course creator, like go be— go do something else because the coaching industry is so personal. Like, it is human to human. And if you don't have time for people or you think that it's annoying that people ask questions or whatever. Like, yeah, obviously, like, we all have moments where we're like, oh my God, client, like, come on, you know? But like, because it's human. But I mean like a general, like, thing, you know, like a general feeling of like, ugh, like, don't be a coach because coaching is so much work. It's so much energy. It's so much emotional intelligence. And it's like If, if your main priority is like, how many people can I get into this program? Then you, you're losing. Like the main priority is yes, of course you wanna help as many people as possible. And yes, of course you wanna fill up your program, but if you cannot deliver what you're saying, you are ruining your reputation and your name and that shit gets around quick. Like do not take on more than you can handle. Like Again, ego. Start slower. Like, slow down, you know, stop putting so much pressure on yourself. Like, I really think there's just— the numbers are so glorified of like, get 50 people in your program. It's like, can you actually hold 50 people? Can you even hold 10? Can you even hold 5? Like, it's a lot. So I think really just being honest with yourself about like, what can you hold? Because the last thing you're going to want to do is— I actually had a client go through this once, the program, filled it out and then realized, oh, fuck. Like, it was a rude awakening for her to be like, oh my God, do I even want to do this? Right? And so it's like, be prepared, right? Be prepared for that and come from a place of love and service, period. Like, that's always been the vibe is like, Show up with love, show up with service. Boom.

I also think there's 100%— like, I love what you said about the energy of kind of feeling like they don't have time for you or they're not really like they don't care about you. That's what I've heard from people is like, I was in this program or whatever, but it felt like the coach didn't really care about us. And I think everyone wants to feel that they are they're not just like a number. They're not just like an investment or like some dollar signs, but like that the person that's guiding them or giving them the information or trying to help them actually gives a shit about them, like succeeding in whatever avenue that course or program was designed to help them succeed in. But I think the other piece to this is that the marketing is accurately depicting what is actually going to happen inside of the program or what it's going to be like. And I think that's where the biggest discrepancy is because it's like if you wanna sell a passive program, like there's nothing wrong with that. You don't need to answer questions or yeah, have a group or have calls or have anything like that. You can totally sell like an evergreen passive program, but then you can't talk about it. In this way where it seems like you're going to be there all the time. Like, oh my God, I'm so excited to like hold your hand through this process and love on you and like be together in this program and be besties. And then, you know, people get in the program and they're like, never heard from her ever again and realize it was just videos. Like the marketing. Like if there's no calls, you need to— that needs to be transparent. If there's one call or two calls like that needs to be transparent. But I think it's really just about the congruency of like what you're saying it's going to look and feel like versus what it actually looks and feels like for people once they get inside.

Yes, yes. Congruence and like expectation, just letting know, letting people know and not telling people what they want to hear so that you can get them in. Like, I think that's something that like a lot of people, especially in the early investing days, like you can just believe, you know. And so I think like do your due diligence with questions. Just like ask all the questions. Like, don't— I've always worried like about being annoying, you know, just being like, am I asking too many questions? Like, oh my God, I should just like know if I should join or not. Don't be afraid to ask a lot of questions. All my clients, like, I'm like, please ask everything that you want to know. Like, there's not too many questions and you're not annoying. And I do think that's something that a lot of women feel like, I just don't want to speak up. Like, I'll just— it's fine. It's like, no, ask, like, get your needs met, ask. And you're better off being feeling air quotes like annoying than dropping thousands of dollars in a program that isn't actually for you.

Yeah. And I think here's one thing that can help people if you are like, well, I mean, like we've had this conversation which is valuable to coaches of like remembering like what you want your reputation to be and what you want your client experience to be. And knowing that when people get into a program that they feel sucks, they're going to talk about it and tell people about it. And that's not going to be good for you. But on the other side of the spectrum, for people that are joining programs or courses or want to work with a coach or something. My favorite thing to offer in terms of advice is to speak to people that have actually worked with that coach before or been inside of that program. Like, because I understand people, you know, it's sometimes it's like, oh, well, of course I'm going to tell you that my program is amazing because it's my fucking program. Yeah, right. And I genuinely do believe that it's amazing, right? So, but like, if you want something that's a little bit more objective, then you can reach out to some of my clients that have taken this program and ask them like, hey, what was your experience like? Like really candidly, like, what did you love about it? What did you not like about it? And there's several ways you can do that. Like you can stalk their story highlights. Like I share screenshots of things that, you know, my clients have said about the program with their Instagram handles. Available with their permission so that people can reach out to them. But also you could just ask me, like, you could be— you could literally go into a coach's DMs if you're having a conversation about something that you're thinking of joining, and you could say like, hey, would you mind connecting me with a few of your past clients so that I can just ask them about their experience?

Yeah.

And if they're not willing to do that, then that might be kind of weird. Like, it's kind of like job references, right? Like when you go to a job, they don't only just rely on like who you say that you are, they ask you to provide some sources of people that know you. And of course, again, those sources are going to be like people that you know that are going to talk nicely about you, but it just, it gives another perspective of what's happening. So I think that's a good piece of advice.

Yeah, yeah. And, um, I love— I mean, I love that. I always I actually, I had somebody come into my DMs once and ask me about an experience I had. And I've had that actually happen times to me. And I'm like, like, it's just so great to give honest feedback and be like, look, I'm not trying to sell this program or not to you. I'm just straight up being honest with you about my experience, what I liked, what I didn't like. And then you can go make your own decision. And I think that's like a, I think that's a really great strategy, especially if you're feeling like Is this really for me? Like, just getting a second opinion, getting a third opinion, like, do your, do your homework. Like, it's totally cool, especially now with the industry just growing as rapidly as it is, which is beautiful. Just, just do your homework. Really, that's it.

Yeah, exactly. Love that. Okay, let's go number 5. Yeah, using like your own investments into like coaches or mentors or in your business as a way to appear like more credible in some way. So it's basically—

Sam, I have to tell you something. I invested $30 billion in my last mentor, and I think you should start paying me for mentorship because like I went big.

Yes. And like, this is, this is so nuanced because I think it's— well, on one side, it's so valuable for us to be transparent about investments that we've made and to kind of share about our experiences of how it was maybe scary for us or what we felt internally and then what the ROI was on that or what that looks like. Because yes, okay, if you're early on in your journey of investing in yourself, it can be scary and it's helpful to be able to see and hear and witness other people's experiences, um, the same way that you would with anything, you know. Um, but I think it's just like, it's— if you've seen it recently, you'll know where it's like so it's like the only purpose of them telling you that is again to like pedestal themselves in some way. So it's not really like I'm telling you this story of how I invested in myself and what that experience was like for me internally, externally, what it felt like, how I moved through it, or what the ROI was. It's just basically like I paid my coach $500,000. So if you're not in long-term mentorship and if you're not like willing to sell your kidney for like being in my energy, then good luck making it past 10K months or whatever. Like, you know, like it's that when it's that energy again, like we said, vibes don't lie. You can feel the difference.

Yeah, of course. And I mean, you're a perfect testament to this. There is a time and a place for long-term mentorship, period. I used to think it was all the time and my opinion has changed. I think it's a really important thing to do for sure. Especially like up to your first like $500K. Like I really think long-term mentorship is super, super important because so much happens while you're building up your business and you're figuring out what you want to do and who you are and like how you show up as an entrepreneur. Like I think it's like, it's like dating to marry, you know, not dating to date. I've personally always been a person that's like wanted to date to marry. I never— that was just me. It's just who I am.

I don't know.

And I don't want to— I didn't want to jump around. I really wanted and desired feeling like supported long term. So I think that is so important. And also, again, use discernment. Like, is it the right time or do you feel shamed into investing because this coach invested and because they did it, they're making you feel like you have to do it? That is manipulation. Like, that is control. Masked as support. And so just be aware of what people are saying and ask, does this apply to me? Like, does this feel true to me? And like, do the check-in with yourself before you impulsively think, oh my God, now I need to spend $20K at a mastermind because this post said I do. Like, no, you know, if anyone's telling you that you need to do X, just be aware, you know, that involves— it involves their benefit. Just be aware.

Yes, yes, exactly right. And I think like to your point of long-term mentorship, we both experience this and I'm the same. I was the same way in dating. I never wanted to date someone that I felt like was truly a waste of my time or that I could tell like wasn't going to be a long-term thing. Like I would, I would never have done that. And so it has been nice to do that with coaches as well, it's nice to like have someone who knows like your whole journey and who knows your product suite and who knows the ins and outs of your offers and like what things look like in your business. And you don't have to always like start over from the beginning and explain everything and spend all this time like going on this whole new journey of like, this is my business and this is what I sell and this is what I offer and this is what I'm good at and here's programs and these are my prices. And it's like, it is nice to just have that like consistent, like long-term support of like someone who knows you and knows what you're trying to work on. But like we've shared in another episode, like you don't need a coach every single day of your life. There are times where it's valuable for you to stand on your own two feet and figure it the fuck out.

For sure.

For sure. It's about having, having, having the discernment for that. Okay. Number 6. Is glamorizing not working and making everybody think that you can work 3 hours a day. Yeah, that you can work 3 hours a day and make $5 billion. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Totally. I think, okay, here's my honest view on this. I love, love having white space on my calendar. Like, it feels like luxury to me. Like, it literally does feel like this is why— this actually isn't even why I became an entrepreneur, but I didn't know this was going to be a result of being an entrepreneur, tbh. But seeing my calendar not be go to my 9 to 5, come home, binge eat because I'm so unhappy, and go to bed— like, and actually seeing space in my calendar to, like, exercise and, like, have my morning routine is amazing, right? And this is what I'll say. I feel like you probably feel the same, Sam, because honestly, like, it is— it does feel like a little boring, let's say, to like share that like, oh my God, I just worked 6 hours today, you know? Because it's kind of like, like, I did, yes, but my brain doesn't go to like, oh, let me just like tell everyone what I did today, because that's not I don't need to do that, right? And I think that, like, I see it from both sides of like, I don't want to work 12-hour days. Fuck that. No. Like, I work way better when I have a smaller window of time anyways. So I usually give myself like 4 to 5 hours a day of like work, and then the rest I'm like fucking digging around and like maybe I'm doing a little work and like maybe I'm not, but like I don't remember the last time I worked an 8-hour day. Like, there is days where I do sit at the computer a lot and I'm like, oh my God, I can't— like, I need to get up. We were just talking about this before we hit record, but if you're gonna build a business, you need to fucking work. Like, you are not gonna work 15 minutes a week and make a million dollars. Like, I'm sorry, it doesn't matter, like, how big your team is. That— what the fuck is the point, you know? Like, and I know for us, we are also both very like high achieving, like driven, like ambitious. And I know like everyone that listens to my show and yours, it's like, that's— it's the same. And like, just don't be fooled into like, you don't have to do the work in order to get the result. And there is that narrative out there right now that's like, oh my God, like just like do less. And like, like, yes, I am a proponent of like, you don't need to do more to make more money. I don't think that's true. Um, I think you can work less and make more money, but you still have to work. Like, you, you're still making content. Like, you're still building trust with your people. Like, I don't know, it, it's just like, what are, what are these people talking about?

So I saw this thing that was like the, you know, there's this, this glamorization of like ease, right? Of like, it gets to be easy, and Yes, there's a, there's a time and a place for that narrative because when you're so stuck in the masculine of like thinking everything has to be hard or that like you have to grind and sacrifice and like work 14-hour days in order to have any progress in your business, like maybe that's a message that you need. But there's a lot of people that don't need that message because they're already so flailing around in their chaotic feminine of having no structure and like just being distracted all the time and not getting shit done. And being like, I don't know, I'm so in my flow, like, why is it not happening? And it's like, well, yes, because we need both, right? You got to sit down. I saw this thing that was like, ease. Everybody's like, I want more ease. I want more ease, right? In their businesses. And ease literally means like the absence of difficulty or effort. And so if you think about like are you really going to build a successful business or a brand, no matter how big it is, whether it's 6 figures, 7 figures, or beyond? Are you really going to build a business with an absolute absence of effort?

No, just no, you're not.

It's like, so Yes, you do have to work. And I think sometimes it's misleading seeing everyone share about how little they work and then being confused when you're at the start of your business, being like, how do people build websites and landing pages and content? And they're on Instagram and they're on TikTok and they have a podcast, and you're comparing like your day 1 to someone's day 100, and they're over here talking about how you don't need to work or you can have like all this free time or like only work 3 hours a day. And it's like, well, yeah, like use your brain, be discerning. That's obviously not applying to you right now because you're in a totally different like phase of your business.

Right, right. Yeah. And at the beginning of the business, that's when you are going to be doing the most work because you don't have a team yet. You don't have the money to pay anyone else to help you, maybe. And you're figuring it out. So like, don't be surprised if you do feel like you're doing a lot. Yeah, you probably are. And like, I actually think that kind of hustling at the beginning a little bit is important. Like, it is important to— because you, you haven't built momentum yet, you know? Like, you have— your train is not running. Like, you have— you're still building the train. You're putting on the damn wheels. And until you get the wheels on your business is not going to support it. Like, it's not going to help itself, right? So at the beginning, yes, you are going to have to put in way more work than the person who's already making a lot more money than you and is already down the road because they put in the work, right? Like, I mean, I don't know about you, but I remember I built my own website myself on like Squarespace. I was making all my— I was doing everything. I didn't even want to hire anyone. I was so obsessed with doing it all myself because I thought I would be the best at it. Until I hired my first, like, business coach. And she's like, you need to, like, delegate. And I was like, uh-uh, this control freak ain't gonna delegate. No, absolutely not. They will fuck it up. And then I got— I had my first team member, and then I was like, oh, oh, oh, you know, once you find the team member that really does feel good. But anyways, yes, like, especially especially at the beginning, the first year, 2 years in your business, girl, you got to put in the work. Like, get to work. Stop doing or stop not doing the things and start doing the things you're avoiding. We had a, we had a conversation on this before and I'm like, girl, fucking get to work. Do it. Do the things.

It's like, it's like Kim Kardashian. Like, get your fucking ass up. And work.

But I kind of feel that way sometimes. I'm like, guys, like, come on.

Yeah, yeah, literally. So I think like, again, as we're talking about this, like discernment, if you know that you're like in your burnout era, then someone saying get your fucking ass up and work is obviously not applicable to you. If you are in your like chaotic feminine, like nothing's working, I'm so distracted, like nothing's happening era, then yes, that is for you, like to, to actually remember that, like you do have to put in the work. So just using discernment when it comes to like the whole it gets to be easy and like I never work or I'm always just doing whatever I want kind of narrative that happens like in the coaching space. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Last one. Number 7 is the fake kind of like perfection of like presenting yourself in a way where it feels like things are never hard for you. But my, my ick to this, which like if things are great for you, then I think that you should be real. And that is also a version of authenticity because I don't want to confuse people with thinking like authenticity can only be crying or showing up when things are hard or struggle. Like it's also authentic to celebrate yourself and to be like, I'm in a really awesome spot right now and I fucking love my life and my business or where I am. So that is also authentic. My like ick with this is when there's like no representation of anything that has been a challenge or a struggle to them other than the fact that they talk about it in their marketing or in their copy where it's like, I've been there, babe. Like, I know how you feel. And you're like, do you? Like, I'm so confused.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, how, where, when have you talked about it? Yeah.

Yeah.

I think for me, like, I really felt that really hard this past year, like in 2022. I was just seeing it so much and it made me really turned off actually for a while. Like I had to kind of like regain my vision and like composure and just be like, Okay, like, we get to share both, you know, both sides. And I think honestly, that is the only way to be, like, as a leader, you know, like, we have to have the courage to be vulnerable, um, because that's what connects us, you know. Like, when we, when we see somebody that looks like they have it all together, I know for me, I'm always drawn to those people But then, because like, I think we're always drawn to this like idea of perfection, right? That's like what we're conditioned to desire. But then we realize like it never feels good because they're so not a human, right? Like we were like, they're just perfect, right? And we're like, how do we be that? How do we become that? And we start to create this really weird dynamic in our minds of What's wrong with me? Why am I struggling? Right. And so I think just again, I feel like discernment is actually the theme of the episode, of this whole episode with all these 7 points is like knowing that just, just being aware to see the full spectrum of the human, you know, because like without that really beautiful bliss and pleasure in, you know, whether it's in their life or their business, there has to be the other extreme too, you know? Like, you can't experience that really deep sense of like, oh my God, this is so amazing, without the really deep pain, right? It's like, it's a, it's like, um, I don't even know how to— I guess it's like a slinky, you know? If your slinky is like pulled out, then you have the bliss on one side and you also have the like fucking deep dark shit on the other. And to say that it doesn't exist is just painting an untrue narrative. So it's not to say that you need to, like, you know, you don't need to post photos of you crying every week. Sure, you can post a photo of you having that experience if you want, but I think also just knowing that it is safe to be vulnerable. I think that's something that we get to learn as women especially. Like, we get to be vulnerable and it's safe. You're not going to get hurt, you're not gonna be betrayed, people aren't gonna think that you can help them. And I know for me, it's— it doesn't even make sense to me, but a lot of times when I just open up and share my fucking heart on the internet in whatever format that is— podcast, YouTube, IG— that's when I always get the biggest response, is like, damn, you know, because you open up your heart. And, um, don't be afraid to do that, you know, don't overshare, but like share, like let people know that, hey, you're moving through it too. And I think that's the most beautiful thing is when we can see people's humanness, you know, all the parts, not just the, not just the beauty, not just the highs. I love it all. Yeah.

Yeah. I think, I mean, I, I've noticed the same thing with myself too. Like if I share a podcast where I'm like crying or like stressing about something or just like sharing the difficulties, like people always reach out and they're like, wow, that like really helped me like feel almost like less alone in like the fact that this has been like hard for me or that like everything isn't working out for the thing that I'm manifesting or like what I'm trying to create as well. So I agree. I think those things get a really big response, but also there's like this other side of the coin which is then sometimes as a coach or a leader or someone in this industry, almost feeling like the responsibility to share all of the hard things and feeling like you don't get to just live it or feel it on your own and that it has to be displayed for teaching or learning or connection purposes, right? Like moving through something hard and you're like, I can't just like honor this on my own and do it privately. I have to like show it and share it because it's going to help them too, or like, yeah, whatever. And so I think it's like, yeah, again, like obviously discernment. But I think my point, my main point with this is not that it's right or wrong to share vulnerably or not share vulnerably. Like, I think that's your prerogative as like a person. Like you get to choose how you want to show up and share. But I think when it, when it starts to become part of like the marketing of something that you're selling, then it needs to be congruent. And so if you're not someone who's like wants to share or show that you've struggled at all, but then your marketing is talking about how you have had this huge struggle and you can really empathize and understand your client, that's where I'm like, Well, now that doesn't really make sense, you know? So that's where it feels kind of more like manipulative almost. And that's like my beef with it is not like if someone doesn't want to be vulnerable online, like, or if you're just a regular person on Instagram and you're like, I don't want to tell people my problems, then like, yeah, like you don't have to. You have no responsibility to do whatever the fuck you want, right? But you're not marketing something and collecting people's money off of the back of like what you're saying about that.

Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Like, I think coming from a place of integrity to be like, ooh, if I share the story, then people will empathize and then buy my thing. It's like, no, share because you want to share, not for the benefit. Like, not for— yeah, you know what I'm trying to say. But yes, to your point of like, you can choose what you want to share. And I actually just went through this, and then we can wrap it up. I just went through this in my life where I had a really challenging experience in life and I like, I felt this almost like a little voice in the back of my head that was like, oh my God, you have to like talk about it and like share the lessons and like blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, I just like don't have the bandwidth and I actually don't want to like, period. And I think to your point, choose, use discernment. Do you actually want to share this, or do you feel like you should? And always come back to like coming from a place of desire, not should, not obligation. And oh my God, I feel like I moved through the process so much faster because I wasn't trying to make content from it, you know? I think sometimes we can intertwin our lives so deeply into our business, and I'm like, for fuck's sake, I just want to teach people and help people with their problems. I don't need to bring my problems into the business all the time, you know? So I think, again, use discernment, share what you want to share, but don't make business harder for yourself by thinking you need to turn every single thing that happens to you into a lesson.

Yeah. Oh my God. Totally, totally. Wait, we were making fun of this when we were at Tony Robbins. Do you remember? What were we saying? It was so funny about the, the pistachios. Oh my God, Sam. Okay, wait, let me remind you about that.

I'm like, I don't remember. Pistachio. Let me remind you about this.

We were one night— this is, this is probably like literally at like 1:30 in the morning one night after we got home from Tony Robbins, like so late. And we're in the kitchen of the Airbnb, like eating some pistachios. And, you know, you, you have to like open the shell of pistachios. And so it like takes a while to like eat them. And we started having the conversation about like, they taste so much better though when you open them from the shell versus when you buy the ones that are already pre-shelled. Like, why? We're like, oh my God, why do they taste so much better though, when you have to individually go through and like crack them open? And we were like, just totally joking, like taking the piss, but like being like, oh, it's like a lesson from the universe of like, it feels better when you have to work for it. Like, like pretending to like take pictures of the pistachios, like for content, like I'm going to share it. This is a lesson for my audience.

But like, literally, that would be me. Like, I'd be like, guys, like, this is like your heart cracking open to the portal of life. It's like everything has to be so deep and meaningful, and it's like sometimes we can just like not.

Literally, sometimes it's just a fucking pistachio and you can let it— you can let it live, let it be. Anyways, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I hope you found some fun in it. I hope you found some value in it. I hope you found something to reflect on in your business if you're a coach, and also in the content that you're consuming for anyone who follows a lot of coaches or is in the industry. If you did enjoy the episode, send it to someone that you know. If you are a coach, you probably have lots of coach friends. Yeah, send it to like your online coaching besties. Let's have a larger conversation about these things because I think it will be really, really helpful.

Yeah, I think so too. Um, and please reach out to Sam and I on Instagram. Sam is at _samanthadaily and I'm at samaltieri. Um, we'll have all that in the show notes. Thank you guys so much for being here. This was fun. I had a blast. Um, and I hope you guys did too. And we cannot wait to do another Sam x Sam or Sam squared. Like, I feel like they just need to be called Sam squared. Sam squared episode. You guys love them and I love them. I'm like, we're just fucking hanging out, having a bestie conversation. And we really hope that you use discernment and laugh about the things happening in the industry and then just go do your thing, girl. You know, thank you for being here. We will catch you on the next one. Love you guys. Talk soon.

Bye bye.