Courage to Climb: Finding Purpose Beyond Comfort Zones with Jamin Heppel

Tuning into why we're here and what our soul's purpose is, is this principle of letting go and surrender.

Yes, I'm scared to do this, and yes, I know it's going to be uncomfortable, but I know if I don't do it, the feeling I'm going to have is going to be worse.

The awakened mindset is that of, like, remaining curious and sitting inside of, huh? What does it take to stay?

Welcome to the Path to Purpose podcast where I share incredible, incredible conversations with amazing humans who went through a pivotal shift in their lives that have put them on their path of purpose, profit, and impact. My name is Zaraq Fatah. I am a serial entrepreneur and life coach. I went through my own transformational journey where I'm now committed to living life of inspiration, education, and empowerment. My intention is to share these conversations so they inspire you to also walk your path to purpose. Well, welcome to Nosara, dude.

So good to be here, man.

Nice to have you here. Yeah. So Jamin and I met, well, virtually. We connected in the group of eight, which is a men's group that our dear brother Rick Williams set up back in the fall. And we've been connected in that group since, I think about, like, October, November of last year.

That's right.

Y. Yeah. And this group is eight of us, all in the men's coaching space. Actually, not everybody's men's coaching, but coaching and, you know, coaches need coaches. And this is an amazing group of men who are on their own journey, who are living their purpose, and who have come together to support one another. And it's been an honor to be in this group with you, and I appreciate you joining me here for this podcast while we have you here in Nosara. For those of you watching, Jamin is from Australia and you are on a bit of a world tour right now, and I can't wait to have you share your story because, man, like, I love to travel, and I think I've done some epic shit, and you, like, you do some really epic shit. So I can't wait to have you share your story and how you got into this line of work that you do. Yeah. And, you know, I'm just excited to have you here and share your journey. And, you know, I like to use the metaphor a lot of on our. On our path to success, we climb this mountain, this mountain of adversity and challenges. And one day we get to the top and we look around the mountain, and sometimes we don't like the view that we have up there. And Jamin actually, not only does he climb mountains, he takes people up mountains as well and teaches them what it's like to actually climb Mount Kilimanjaro and to push themselves past their mental and physical limits so that they can really, truly tap into the potential that is within them. And I think it's amazing. And I promise you, I'm going to join you on one of your climbs one day.

Yeah, let's do it, man.

Yeah. So thank you for joining. And, you know, I. I know who you are in this moment. You know, I've had a chance over the last few months to get to know you, but who were you before? Like, tell me about the jamin from, you know, five years ago or before you got on this path. What was.

Who.

Who were you? What was life like?

Nice. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. It's really exciting to be here in Asara, to be in this beautiful space, kitted out with all this gear, and to be diving into a meaningful conversation with the dear brother. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I guess to go back sort of pre. I mean, pre mountains and marathons or even to just give a sense of my background. So, yeah, I grew up in Australia, grew up in a little country town of about 7,000 people. And, you know, I was a classic country kid. Loved sport, enjoyed my school, enjoyed hanging out with my mates. But I always felt, in a way, I felt like I didn't fully belong. And I was always connected to a life outside of this little bubble that I grew up in. And so, you know, as far as the journey or the curiosity of what is available for us in life and how extraordinary can life be? That's a question that I've lived inside of for almost 15 years now. And so even though my path has involved certainly plenty of twists and tails and lots of adversity, there has been, you know, pretty much since the age of 17. I'm 32 now. Since the age of 17, there has been a genuine curiosity about who can I be as a leader and. Yeah, what is the greatest way in which I can serve people, my community, and contribute to the planet?

Beautiful. Yeah. And I know what that feels like, to look around and be like, I'm. I feel like I'm different than other people. I feel like there's something else I'm supposed to be doing. So with you in this small town of 7,000 people, not feeling like you necessarily fit in, that there was something else for you, What. What was it that really had you step out of that town? And begin this new path.

Yeah. Nice. So for me, there were two threads that have been consistent throughout my entire life, which is sport and leadership. And so When I was 17, I was the school captain of my local school. It was a school of about 12,000 1200 people, 1200 kids. And I got invited onto this six day transformational leadership development program ran by YMCA Victoria. And so Victoria is the state that I grew up in. And YMCA have quite a strong youth leadership presence there. And this six day program was facilitated by 12 passionate volunteer facilitators aged between 18 and 30. And it was the first time saying yes to this program. It was the first time that I'd ever been brought down into a space where I was removed from the little bubble that I grew up in and introduced to 60 other young leaders from all across Victoria who for the first time I could be like, ah, you care as much as I do. And so there was a component of actually, like, getting a sense of like, ah, these people get me in a way that I'd never felt before. In addition to that, this six day program, you know, if I look at the content, it was fairly elementary baseline, professional development 101 stuff. But it was what my spirit had been yearning for for years. And so in that week, I remember there was a distinct moment about day four when I was just like, whoa, what you guys are facilitating and creating here for me in these and this community, I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do that professionally. I'm gonna take it to the next level. I'm gonna do it bigger and better. And so I came off the back of that experience. I definitely, I didn't have the. This level of awareness at the time, but when I look back at it, I recognize how privileged and how meaningful it was to be in touch with such a strong sense of purpose and clarity of purpose at a very young age. Because what I notice in particular in this line of work, of being in these really rich and meaningful conversations about what's most important for people in their lives. A lot of people don't have clarity on that purpose. And it's something that they're continuing to seek and uncover. And some people never work it out. And so I look at that and go to have been so intimately and clearly in touch with my sense of purpose at a young age.

It's a real gift.

A real gift. And it was activated from that six day transformational leadership program that I did when I was 17.

That's amazing. Yeah. That at such a young age you had that opportunity because mentorship and bringing together like minded people, nevermind like minded teenagers, to show them what is possible and giving them the tools to really tap into that leadership and their potential at a young age, that is a real gift. And I think that personally I believe that's what's really missing in today's education system and with young people because the mentors are the people that young teenagers are looking up to, are on TikTok and Snapchat and Instagram and as we know, not the healthiest role models for people out there. And that's why opportunities where like minded people can come together and share ideas and learn these tools where they can grow and dive deeper into themselves is so important. That's why, you know, the work that you do with mountains and marathons, with what I do with my retreats, when you get 12 or 20 strangers together who have that curiosity and they, they know that there's something else I should be doing, I don't know what it is yet, but I know it's something else. And you put them in a room together, you get them on a plane, a different country, out of their environment and you get them opening up and talking that, that intuition, that inspiration starts to surface and that's why these containers are so important. But a lot of people are very resistant to joining these groups, containers and experiences like wait, I'm going to travel by myself and go hang out with a bunch of strangers for 10 days while we climb a mountain. I don't know about that. So they'd rather stay in the mediocre, mediocre environment that they're in. And yeah, it takes something to say, okay, I'm going to go join this random group of strangers and see what's possible for sure.

Man, there are so many layers that we could speak into in this particular topic and theme. But if we look at the nature of, you know, for people who have had the courage to say yes to that kind of invitation to step into a container when perhaps you do jump on an airplane and, and step into a room full of trainers, strangers. And there's a trainer.

Yeah.

And you know, and, and you willingly, courageously, vulnerably lean into the fullness of the experience, anyone who's been through that will have, will be able to relate to what we're speaking to, you know, and for many people who do have that courage, that can be such a profound entry point into a whole world of self inquiry, but then also deepening of connection and friendships and relationships that truly transform, like the context of community, the context of what's important to us, and give us greater access to being in tune with, like, what our passion and purpose really is. And yet I can so empathize with the resistance that people may hold to saying yes to those kinds of invitations, stepping into a man's marathons program or stepping into a retreat that you facilitate. Because saying yes to that is saying yes to the unknown.

Yeah.

It's saying yes to the uncertainty. It's saying yes to being in vulnerable places and spaces and feeling uncomfortable emotions.

Yeah. You know, and saying yes to letting go of control. Because a lot of people, when they go on a trip, they want to make sure that they've got everything dialed in. They know everything that's going to happen because they're in another country, they're away for a week. They. They wanna know that they've got a handle on things. But when you go on a retreat or you go, you know, on one of your adventures, it's like. It's unpredictable.

Totally. Yeah. And so this is where, again, it's like, it's a baseline principle of what it. From my standpoint, what it truly means to get access to tuning into why we're here and what our soul's purpose is, is this principle of letting go and surrender.

Yeah.

Like actually being able to listen to that part of us that has wisdom and knows what we need. Yeah. Knows what we need to go and grow to the next level. And. And what that requires is once we're in touch with that retreat, is speaking to me. Climbing that mountain is calling me when we can actually dial into that. Listen to that. And then trust that voice. The next step is activating courage and having courage outweigh fear.

Yeah.

To then say yes to the experience and then let go, trust and surrender. And my experience has been time and time again deepening my capacity to. To let go, trust and surrender and have faith that everything, even if it's uncomfortable in this moment, has divine synchronistic alignment attuned to it. That it is in greater service to me and greatest disservice to the other people in the space and the future that I'm living into.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It reminds me of the quote by Joseph Campbell. You know, the. The treasure that we seek is in the cave that we fear to enter.

That's right.

Or the. I think I said it backwards. The cave that we fear to enter holds a treasure we seek. That's right. You know, and that idea of what could Happen that holds us back is what stops us from actually tapping into our greatness. Exactly. And I, you know, most, I would say probably, yeah, most of people come on retreats afterwards, they're like, wow, I'm never going on a normal trip again. I'm never doing an all inclusive again. That's, you know, because, you know, something really magical happens when you get people away out of their typical environment, out of their routine, out of their usual mindset, and you have them doing new things with new people in a new location. Like there's real neuroplasticity happening there. The brain is actually growing and changing and you come home a different person as a result of it.

That's right. It's so, it's so profound and you know, and just, even just sort of circling it back to, to my own growth journey and then how that relates to others is like after that leadership training, that transformational program I did when I was 17 years old, that, that was the catalyst for me to be like, what? There is power in these spaces. Yeah. So as a young man, I just continued just to say yes, just say yes to every immersive retreat based program that I could fit into my schedule. I was saying yes to it. Good for you. And so, you know, across the course of the last 15 years, you know, I've got a ratio now where I deliver four retreats and participate in one. And so that's kind of my typical cadence. But, you know, I would have participated in over 30 immersive residential retreats over the years as a, as a participant. And inside of that, it's that every time I get that nervousness, there's the anxiety, there's the apprehension, there's the part of my brain that is just trying to hold on to some kind of control. And then I know the pattern and it's like, all good. Thank you, Mr. Mind. Let it go, let it go, let it go. All is good. Come back, be present, follow the instructions. And now let's see what shows up.

Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that because I remember I did a men's Tantra retreat last April. And you know, a lot of people hear tantra, they think about sexuality, but this is more about intimacy with yourself and intimacy being able to be intimate and connected with other men. And that was an edge for me because growing up, I avoided groups of men. I didn't feel safe with other men. Uh, I would. That's why I've been a lone wolf for most of my life. And during this retreat, we did many things that really, really were very edge edgy for me, for sure. Yeah. And anytime that resistance to that fear came up, I knew I need to do it. I need to lean into it. Right. Because if I'm feeling this resistance and this. This somatic disruption is happening within me, I need to lean in.

Yes.

And, like, just one small example, like, doing the temazcal, you know, with. With there's 16 of us in total for an hour and a half, I. I get freaked out with claustrophobia. And so it's low ceiling, dark, and hot, hot, hot. And I just knew, like, okay, yes, I'm scared to do this. And yes, I know it's gonna be uncomfortable, but I know if I don't do it, the feeling I'm gonna have is going to be worse. Totally. And I sat through it, I did it. And afterwards, I felt just so proud of myself, like, okay, I overcame that. And there were times in there where I had to really tap into my, like, okay, I'm not gonna die. I'm safe. I'm with my brothers. I know where the door is. There's nothing to fear right now. There's nothing to be concerned about. I had to talk myself through it. Then. We can apply that mindset and that resilience to any situation in life. Whether you're running a marathon, whether you're doing a fast, whether you're doing a breathwork session. You're not going to die. You're in control. You're safe. Can you trust yourself? Can you keep going and know that the treasure is at the end of this dark cave and just have the resilience to see it through?

Sure, man. I mean, it speaks into the key principle of just, like, culture, like, what it means to consciously cultivate resilience, consciously cultivate greater capacities to be and experience more of life. And it takes moments like that of being in the Tamas skull, where you're coming up against your edge. You do have a choice to leave.

Yeah.

Like, there is a permission field there. No one's forcing you to be there. And I guess from my standpoint, the, you know, the awakened mindset is that of, like, remaining curious and sitting inside of.

Huh?

What does it take to stay? Yeah, can I stay? Can I stay just a little bit longer? And then just allowing yourself to, like, stretch that edge, push that boundary while still being attuned to, like, not going too far over the edge, being able to call it, but being willing to find that edge and see if you can stay.

Yeah.

And I find that, you know, for all the programs that we lead, you know, whether that's guiding people up Mount Kilimanjaro or supporting people to run their first marathon in Patagonia or Hawaii or whatever it is, it's like the fear. The fear is going to be there. The resistance is going to be there. But being able to notice it, distinguish it, and go. And with all of this present, I'm still safe.

Yeah.

And so I'm going to say yes. I'm going to trust in the surrender. I'm going to show up. And then when things get hard, I'm going to choose. I'm going to dial in. And then if it feels right, I'm going to choose to stay.

Yeah.

And my experience has been with the thousands of people who I've worked with over the years, is that those who have built that muscle of tuning into resistance, leaning, feeling through it, saying yes, and then choosing to stay when things get hard, consciously cultivating a deeper resilience and therefore, outside of retreat context, navigate life with more grace, more ease, more perspective, less. Less stress and anxiety in the body because they've been doing. They've been working that muscle behind the scenes in these kinds of containers.

That's it. Yeah, exactly. It's a muscle that you cultivate and you develop, just like going to the gym. And that muscle, that resilience muscle that you develop during those challenging moments, you can apply that muscle whenever it's seen in any other parts of life. And just one more thing to speak to about the fear. It's. Can you be with the fear and be curious and explore the fear and just sit with it and know that it's okay to be afraid, but what am I actually afraid of? You know, rather than just emotionally reacting to whatever trigger that fear may be rooted in, can you understand why you're afraid? What happened in your life somewhere along the way that made this situation scary for you? You know, and can you go back and revisit that situation and shift your perspective around it? You know, and then that thing doesn't have a hold of you anymore. And then again, you just walk through life a little bit more brave with a bit more courage because you were able to hold. Hold it together and stay strong during that moment of fear?

Totally.

Yeah.

I mean, I can relate that to so many moments of my growth and development over the years. I even think about when I was 21 and I walked into a Laurel Langmire event who was. I think she was on the Secret, and she's a money. A money. A money witch. Yeah, that's what she goes by. And, you know, it was a room full of whatever, a thousand people or something like that. And I noticed immediately when I walked into the room was just like, I could just feel the social anxiety. I could feel that pressure. So it's like, oh, man, I'm going to be connecting with so many strangers today. And like, just all of that stress and tension was building in my body. And I remember just the simple practice of being like, breathe. Just take it. Just like, breathe deep into the belly. Slow everything down, tune in, and then choose to be here. Okay. Now, you're good at connecting with people. You don't have to connect with a thousand people today. If they hand you the microphone, can you stand up and speak? Probably. But right now your job is to just go find your seat and introduce yourself to the person next to you.

Yeah.

And then layer by layer, the nervous system settles down and eventually we're all in sync as we're dialing into whatever the. Whatever the content was that she was delivering. But just that process of being able to, like, notice what's alive in the body. Nervousness, fear, anxiety. Ah, okay, I see you racing thoughts. What does it take to just simply take a breath, slow down in this moment, and then choose to stay and then take the next best step with presence?

Yeah. And that's where the resilience muscle is needed. Rather than jumping on your phone, rather than, oh, I'm just going to go to the bathroom, get a glass of water. Can you sit? Comfortable moment right now. And just be with what's coming up. And that's why being alone is one of the worst tortures for people, because if you leave someone alone for 15 minutes in a room with no phone, no distractions, it is. It's torture for people because all their shit comes up and they don't know how to be with their shit. And yeah, and it's. It's a very powerful form of therapy that we always have access to, but a lot of people avoid. Cause it's easy to avoid, especially with our iPhones and technology these days.

For sure, distraction is. Distraction from Our shit is everywhere. And it's so justified because it's the norm. And so actually, in order to truly get access to what's available, what's possible for us, it takes a willingness to go against the grain. It actually does take courage to be the person who is willing to go and sit in a room by yourself and meditate for 15 to 20 minutes and just tune into your own thoughts, tune into your Own body, what's alive, what's present.

Yeah.

That is an act. It is an act of profound self love. And it's also an act of. It requires deep courage because it is so against the grain for majority of our world.

Yeah.

And so. And hence why, I mean even just circling back to the foundation of some of our conversation around like where community is so invaluable in the, in the ascension path, you know, in the journey towards living into our potential because our environment contextually shapes how we show up and what we believe is possible for ourselves. Which you know, even though us inside the eight, this men's group is. We are, we're based in different corners of the globe. But regardless of that, we all get to come together on a similar path and be champions of one another, to hold one another accountable to our higher selves. And that is elevating versus as you said earlier, like lone wolfing it.

Yeah.

You know, kind of running out on your own path over here. We can like, in a way we can go far, but only so far. But when that's met with community, there's become such a permission field to raise the game and be accountable to all the things that we know serve us to be at our best and then also supporting one another to. To live into their best.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you shared that because I'm sure you hear this a lot of times too is people come on one of your trips and then they're like, oh, now I'm going to go back home. I'm going to be with my same friends. They want to go drinking on the weekend. They want to do this. Like, yeah, like they're not into the growth healthy, you know, development modalities and having friends who are supportive of the path, who understand what you're creating in your life is super important. And you know, a lot of times people come home from my retreats and like, well now, now what do I do? And they're like, there is a massive expansion of consciousness happening on the planet right now. And there are communities in every city in town and especially online that people can connect with and be with like minded people, whether it be virtually, whether it be, you know, attending retreats or weekly or monthly get togethers. It's important that while you're going through this transitional journey and you're making these changes in your life, you are with people who see you, they hear you, they understand you and they're going to support you on the path. Otherwise, it's often easy to fall back into the Old ways, especially when you're old. Your old friends that you've known a long time think you're crazy and they don't understand you and you start to feel like, am I the oddball here? And it takes courage to say no. You know what? I am. I'm willing to meet new people, I'm willing to develop new friendships in service of who I'm becoming and the life that I'm choosing for myself.

Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, it's exactly, you know, it's one of the things that we integrate inside mountains and marathons. The primary thing we deliver is the aligned leadership program 6 month transformational leadership development Program. And it includes individual coaching, group coaching, fitness coaching, nutrition coaching, then has our members graduate by climbing a mountain or running a marathon in some epic location around the world. And you know, one of the things we offer every year is a reunion where we invite people to come to an exotic, exclusive part of the world.

Yeah, you just did that.

We just did that. That's why we're here in Costa Rica. Yeah. Because we just ran the reunion for our Aligned graduates. And so we invite all graduates across the last five years of delivering the Aligned Leadership Program to come together to a specific place where we get to revisit the core content and be in connection with community, with people who get it. People who have been on a similar journey of rites of passage, a similar initiation, a similar journey of growth and expansion. Because from that base, there's a profound foundation. Even if you weren't on the same program, maybe one person ran the Patagonia Marathon, another person climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, it doesn't matter. They've got the same foundation because of both the education and also each person knowing what they've had to go through in order to be a graduate of the Aligned Leadership Program. And so from that foundation, it creates a beautiful space for people to be in connection and fostering new relationships and new connections because there's that like, mindedness, like heartedness that feels so empowering to support people to continue in our language, like on their journey towards deeper alignment. So, yeah, community is like without, without giving it too much emphasis in a white community is everything.

Agreed. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's, it's necessary and it's essential to your growth. Because as you said, you want to go far. What does it say? You want to go far, go fast, you want to go further, go together?

If you want. Yeah, you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

You're Right, Exactly. Yeah. It's beautiful. So I'm curious to know, so you know, at 17, you did this program, opened your eyes up to the world of personal development. You started going on retreats, started working with coaches, I assume, you know, diving into the world of personal development and understanding yourself at a deeper level. And it's such an important part time of your life in your teenage years, in your 20s, I mean, that you don't hear that too often. Was there any catalyst or breakdown or any pivotal moment that caused you to go deeper in or caused you to create mountains and marathons? I'm curious to know, like what was the inspiration behind that and what, what really? Yeah. What was the catalyst or what led you to create this concept?

Yeah, man, yeah. So the, the type actually, before I get to the point of actually creating mountains and marathons, was I'd created a non profit initiative. When I was 22, I created my first leadership development organization called Game Changers. And so that was all about working with teenagers in grassroots sporting organisations to look at how sport could be an agent for social change. How can sport be more of an educational vehicle to supporting personal growth in young people? And so across the course of eight years, that organisation worked with about 5,000 young people across Australia and predominantly in residential leadership camps. So it was basically an extension of my experience when I was 17, in, when I was 24. We then created a separate organization called the Man Cave, where we'd go into school. So me and my best friend, Hunter Johnson, we'd go into schools and work with year 7 to year 12 boys and young men around challenging, deconstructing, redefining masculinity and exploring what is it to be a healthy, good man into that. So we'd be exploring things around emotional intelligence, around mental health, around resiliency, around gender equality and all of these key topics that were trying to be integrated into the education system but not being done effectively. So we would go in and, you know, being young charismatic men, we had a way of speaking to teenage boys in a way that this work would land for them. And so, you know, so that nonprofit that's actually still one of the fastest growing nonprofits in Australia, I left.

Amazing.

Yeah, I left five, six years ago, but has since worked with 40,000 boys across Australia and has a facilitation team of 40 doing incredible work in schools all around Australia. So, you know, so I really stepped into this world of being a young leader, leading teenagers and supporting teenagers to step into their own inquiry of purpose and passion and what it is to live a meaningful life. Now by the age. So that was all happening by the age of 26, I'd work with about 15,000 young people across Australia and North America. And. But it was in 26 where I was kind of caught in the social entrepreneurial rat race. And what that means is, is like I was a workaholic and addicted to service in, in a, in a, in an unhealthy way.

Got it.

And so even though what I was outwardly doing was very, you know, altruistic and of service to the community and service to the next generation, I was burning out. And I wasn't taking care of myself. I wasn't exercising well. I wasn't socializing much. I wasn't taking care of my nutrition. So I got to a point I remember so clearly. It was on the 16th of July, 2016. I was house sitting in a friend's place. I was home alone, 8pm and all of a sudden I just started to cry. I started to bore my eyes out and just, you know, had my hands just really letting it all go. And I. In that, I was just like, well, I am miserable and I am done and I'm so, so over this. And yet there's a part of my brain that's still like, yeah, but dude, but you, what you do so needed and so important. But I was like, yeah, but if I'm not actually happy, if I'm not feeling like I'm. I'm living my best life, it doesn't matter what I'm doing out there in service, I'm not. And then I'm not embodying the kind of transformation I actually want to see on the planet. And so after a couple of hours of really letting you all go, I was like, well, okay, dude, you're miserable and you created this. So then I was like, okay, well, if you created this mess, then you can create your weight out of it.

Right?

So then I asked myself the question. I was all right, well, if I can create anything in the world right now, what would I actually create? And then it just dropped. I was like, I'd be running marathons, climbing mountains, traveling the world, transforming my life, and working out some way to help other people do the same.

Yeah.

And so I was like, boom, goo doc was up. And then I just downloaded this huge vision which I called Mountains of Marathons. And so that was back in 2016. That was the moment when mountains and marathons as a vision came through. Six months later, I actually then met Jen. So Jen, she's now my business partner. We've been business partners for five years. We co created mountains marathons together. We actually started out in the context of a romantic relationship, so we started dating. And her background is in strategic intervention, coaching, international business, and helping entrepreneurs like me. So people who are up to stuff, but burning out. And so in the early stages of our relationship, Jen actually nursed me back to power, back to health. And so once I came back to a place of personal power, we then together decided that we would combine our years of experience in the field of coaching and transformation to found mountains and marathons. And then that became the catalyst for the creation of the Aligned Leadership Program, which we kicked off our first program in 2018 centered around running a marathon in Patagonia. And yeah, we're coming up to leading our 15th edition of the Aligned Leadership Program. And we've ran programs in six continents all around the world. And I've been traveling ever since. I've lived in 45 different countries and. Yeah. And just been living this incredibly extraordinary, adventurous, nomadic life whilst also integrating these incredibly adventurous, profound, transformational retreats for our clients along the way.

Beautiful. Wow. That is. That is an inspiring story. And yeah, I. It definitely resonates with me in many ways, just knowing what it feels like to say, I don't love my life anymore. I don't love what I do anymore. Even though you created it, you didn't love it anymore. And I know there's a lot of entrepreneurs and people out there watching this, and they're like, hey, that's me. I don't love my life anymore. I don't love my career anymore. So what advice would you have for the person who's watching and they're feeling the same? Like, they've created this company and they're the boss or one of the founders, and they just don't want to do that anymore. Like, what tips or advice would you have for them to help them tune into what is their true purpose? And what does that look like to create something totally new even though you're already into something so deep?

Nice. Beautiful question. So I think the way that I'll answer that is taking it away from the emphasis of true purpose and actually distilling it just down into truth. Like, what's my truth?

Yeah.

And so I think the first part that I guide people to do is actually name where they're at. Like, actually own it.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I'm burnt out. Like. Yeah. And I'm actually miserable. I'm done.

Yeah.

Like, actually, you know, or it's like I'm feeling partially discontent, I'm feeling partly discontent, I'm feeling partly inspired. And so, you know, being able to really distinguish, like, where am I actually at right now? That's helpful to then determine what the next thing might be. Because if it's just partial, well, then the question becomes, okay, what partially feels misaligned for me right now? Is there something that might be able to shift in my current workplace, in my relationship with my wife, with my relationship with my kids, with my money? Circumstances are just something that subtly needs to shift in order for things to feel like they've come into alignment. But then for the people that are like, you know, like, I'm done, I'm burnt out. I've been at this rat race for years and years and I'm just ready to. I'm ready for an evolution from that place. First step, name where you're at. Second step, I really invite people to, like, acknowledge everything that's going on. But let's just put it to the side for a moment and create some space where you can be in a beautiful cafe with some of your favorite music in and taking some genuine, like a good two hour chunk of time to sit and allow your heart to dream, allow spirit to go. Let's just sit inside that question that I asked myself. If I could create anything in the world right now, what would I actually be doing?

Yeah.

And then just allow whatever that is to come through. Now, the specifics might not be clear, but there will be an energy. It might be a yearning for freedom. It might be a yearning for more love. It might be a yearning for adventure. It might be a yearning for more abundance. Like, whatever it is that's coming through, the invitation there is to like dial. Like claim that. Yeah, claim that. Okay. Because from this place, it's like if that exists inside of you, it is possible. Even if you can't see the roadmap ahead, it is possible. So from this place, my invitation for people is to then really like, start to bring some detail around the clarity of what it is that you really are inspired to live into. It might not be a new business. It could, it could be a new. It could be a career change where you're still an employee, but it just has these qualities. It's nomadic. Like, like it's, it's virtual, it's not. It doesn't require an office. It's something that leverages more of my zone of genius. Like, I feel like I'm good at what I do, but I know that If I was just doubling down in this specific area of my life, that would make me so much happier. So it's about, like, distinguishing and owning that truth that you already know deep down is there. Now, the thing here is this can bring up a lot of fear for people, for sure. You know, it's like immediately like the, The. The. The cognitive part of our brain's like, how am I going to do that? And then we can get all caught up in the anxiety of, like, well, it's going to take so much. It's like, just breathe.

Yeah.

Nothing needs to happen right now. Okay. But let's just start with getting really clear on where I'm at and where I want to be.

Yeah.

And then, I mean, my next. My. Honestly, my next advice, if you haven't been through that kind of life transformation before, it is going to feel very, very scary. And so that's where my next piece of encouragement would be to get in connection with a coach or friends, people who have trodden the path before so that you can feel held, guided, and have people who can empathize richly with you exactly what you're going through, and then to support you, to distinguish what's the next step? What's the next step? What's the next step? So that you can actually live into the possibility that you've been in touch with.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you shared that, because I remember in my own personal journey, when I knew that I didn't want to be in nightlife and entertainment anymore, and I knew there was something else for me, I didn't quite know what that was yet. I went to an event called Archangel in Toronto, and they had this whole panel of speakers. And I'd never been to a summit before like this. I'd done Tony Robbins years before, but very different content. And I'm listening to some speakers who had just come out of jail after 10 years and started a company from scratch, or people who had come back from, you know, stage four cancer, people who had overcome debilitating or, you know, catastrophic life situations and reinvented themselves. And I was inspired and motivated by these people who were on the other side of the journey that I was about to begin. And. And I looked at them as examples and role models of what is possible. Because, you know, we all go through this shift in life where. Or we can choose to go through this shift in life where it's like, okay, I know I'm not living my life to my full potential, and I can keep doing this for the next 20, 30, 40 years. But I know at some point I'm going to be laying in my bed realizing I didn't live the life of my dreams. And whether it be, I love reading autobiographies of people who have, you know, accomplished extra nor extraordinary things out of adversity, or as you said, you know, being in community, working with coaches, going on retreats, and really being able to be in the energetic field of people who are on the other side of the journey that you're about to begin. Super important. Yeah. And I like what you said about starting with the end in mind. Like envision, like if it's five years from now and you're living your dream life and you've got the career you've always wanted, what does that look like? What does that feel like? When you wake up in the morning, you look around your house or you look outside the window, what do you see? You know, like, what is life looking like at that point? Because that's what starts with if you can see it and believe it, you can conceive it, achieve it.

Yeah, well, totally. I mean, and even taking that to the next level, it's about, it's about being in touch with that possibility, but really embodying the energy of that.

Yeah.

Like embodying the frequency of that possibility. Because when we can actually start to dial into the energy and live from that place. Yes. We start to become, we start to attract more of that, which we become a magnet for that. And so then naturally, like, then the disciplines, the daily practices, the morning rituals, like the tough conversations, the bold, you know, conversations with the boss or the wife, like those things just become an inevitable, necessary part of the path.

Yes.

To living into the possibility that you've created as the five year vision. You know, because it's not because like we're forcing anything, but it's just actually living from that place as a possibility. We, we, the world externally is reflecting back what we're living from from the inside. And so, you know, that's a, that's a really important, it's a really important piece of it.

Yeah. And that's why it's so important to be comfortable with the fear. Because the fear that we have about starting that new career, you know, moving to a new country, starting whatever that next thing is for us. It's the fear that's rooted in the past experiences that's going to stop us from taking that next step. The fear of, what's my wife going to say, one of my friends going to say, my boss is Going to freak out, whatever that fear may be. So for anyone listening who is intrigued with mountains of marathons and like, I've always wanted to climb a mountain, you know, I. I love hiking. I. I've did Machu Picchu, the Inca Trail last January, which was probably one of my top five adventure experiences in my life. And doing something like Kilimanjaro or Everest or any of those is. Is a bucket list item for me, for sure. So what's the process if somebody wanted to come on one of your experiences? Like, who comes on these trips and what would that look like for somebody to come and either run the marathon in Patagonia or, you know, do Kilimanjaro base camp with you?

Yeah. Nice. So. So typically, like the people who we guide and support the best inside mountains and marathons with our aligned leadership program, which is our primary. That's our primary transformational experience that we facilitate for people, are people who are typically been very successful in a career sense and are at a stage of life where they're like, I know there is something more for me. I know that more is possible. And maybe it's like sitting inside of. Is it a career change? Is it. Is it. Yeah. Is it starting a new business or perhaps at a stage of life where it's like, well, kids have now left the home. I'm no longer the sole, the provider for the kids. It's like, now, what's the next chapter of my life look like? That's typically who we support. And how it works is over the course of six months with a combination of individual coaching, group coaching, fitness coaching, and nutrition coaching, we support people to go through a profound holistic journey of transformation, looking at every key life area and really distinguishing, beginning with clarity, like that vision, what is it that I really want to achieve? What is it that I'm living into? Who am I becoming? How do I want to show up and experience life as a leader? And then from that place, we then move into clearing. So clarity, then clearing. Clearing is all about, okay, what's in the way of living into that possibility? What's in the way? What are the beliefs? What are the emotional blocks? What's the childhood trauma that might be in the way of living into that bigger picture vision? And then we complete with creation. So clarity, clearing, creation. Creation is then really looking at both the pragmatics and the energetics of what it is to embody fully the possibility of clarity, the possibility of that vision that we create at the start of the process program. So that's the six month journey that we guide people through, which then graduates with an epic international adventure where you run a marathon or climb a mountain. And so with that, it's a typically a 6 to 10 day retreat that's all about the consolidation of the past six months, stepping into the challenge because part of the six month program includes fitness and nutrition coaching. So it's all about getting you physically primed, having a health transformation, getting you ready to take on such an epic challenge. And then we complete with a profound integration to ensure that everyone feels supported to take everything they've learned from the program and then carry it forward into their life and leadership so that everyone they care about and work with can continue to benefit from their transformation. And so really how it works, man, is if you're curious, you just go to the website. So that's MountainsandMarathons World. And then you'll be able to see which programs we've got on offer. Right now we're speaking about Mount Kilimanjaro line leadership program. And if what you. If the dates make sense and that speaking to you, you simply click the inquire now button. You submit a simple inquire and then you'll be able to jump on a call with me or one of my team and be able to guide you through the finer details and determine if it's a good fit. And for those of you that are.

Yeah.

That are feeling called to this. Yeah, it truly is. It's the kind of thing that it's not for everybody, but for those who it is a right fit for that's profoundly life changing. And you really do become welcomed into a pretty extraordinary community of people that are choosing to live their best and biggest lives and make some really bold and courageous changes and transitions and becoming a part of a, of a community of people that are. Yeah. That are really looking to take their life to the next level.

Beautiful. Yeah, Definitely sounds like a type of trip that I would like to do. And yeah, I, I know our friend Aaron Kleinerman.

Yes.

Who's also been on my podcast.

Yeah, Aaron.

Actually, the men's retreat that I did was with Aaron Kleiner.

I did the men's initiation init. I did that.

Oh, you did?

On the video.

You know what I'm saying?

I know. You're saying when you said, I thought, I wonder if that was Aaron's. Aaron's program. Yeah. So I did it in Granada in Spain last year and Aaron's actually climbing with us.

Yeah, I know. Yeah. He invited me to, to join. Yeah. Very cool. Small world. I love him. Yeah, he's a good dude. Dude. Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing that. And yeah, for any of you who are interested, I'm also going to put the URL and video content and anything that you need to know about mountains and marathons down in the show notes below. And I promise you, at some point in time, I'm going to be up top on a mountain with you and I'm looking forward to that experience. So good. Yeah. Well, thank you for joining me here today, man. It's been so good to learn more about you, you know, and to have you here in OSADA and to be able to jam out live rather than, you know, on. On Zoom for the past six, seven months. And yeah, looking forward to hanging out and just doing more of this.

Damn right. Beautiful. Thanks so much, brother. It's good to be here.

Thank you. All right, if you enjoyed this podcast and you learned something valuable, then please hit subscribe so you don't miss the future episodes. I'd love it if you share this with a friend and leave us a review. Your feedback is so important to our growth. Thank you for supporting the Path to Purpose podcast. I appreciate you. I'll see you in the next episode. Sam.