Episode 5: From Intoxicating to Meditating with Chris Paciello

Super excited to be sitting down with my old friend Chris Pacello, who is not only an old friend, but also my old boss and an inspiration and somebody who I definitely admire, I have a lot of respect and appreciate appreciation for. And I thought I'd start this off with just a little bit of a story of how Kris and I met. I had come down to Miami in 1997 for New Year's Eve and met a waitress at Amnesia at the time who told me that they were only hiring Canadians because the owners were getting ripped off by all the locals. So she said, if you're Canadian, you know how to bartend. You got a job.

Shady owners. Yeah, I know them guys.

So I told my friends, I'm staying in Miami. I'm not going home. And I ended up getting a job. Amnesia worked there for a little bit, but it didn't quite work out. Now I was crashing on my friend Kevin King's couch, and Kevin King had recently got hired at this new restaurant called Joya, and he was also working at the Delano. He's like, yo, I need you to go in and cover a shift for me. And. And I had to pay my rent somehow with him. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I went to Joya, and I'm unpacking boxes. The restaurant's getting ready to open. I'm setting up furniture. And because I've worked in clubs before, you know, I understood what needed to be done. And this guy comes up to me. He's like, yo, what's your name? I'm like, zark. He's like, what do you do here? I'm like, I don't work here. I'm just here helping out. He's like, hold on, hold on, hold on. You don't work here, and you're helping out, and you're working this hard. He's like, what do you do? I said, I'm a bartender. He's like, all right, you're our new bartender. I got a job for you. And that was this gentleman right here, Chris Pichello, who identified that I was working because, you know, Canadians, I like to think we got good work ethic, and we're honest, you know? So I was setting up, and that's how I came to meet you. And, I mean, of course, I knew who you were at the time. You and Ingrid were, you know, the king and queen of Miami back in that day. And that was probably 1997.

Joya opened January of 97.

97, yeah. Yeah. So Nicola put me on the bar And I remember opening night, they had me work the front door, and I'm working the front door kid from Scarborough working the velvet robe, letting people in, and Sylvester Stallone, Gloria Estefan, Donald Trump. Who else? I mean, anybody you can imagine who was successful, popular celebrity in Miami. 1997 was at your opening.

Yeah, Miami back then was an amazing place. It was the forefront of, like, you know, the south of France or whatever they call it. But it was just like, it was just the beginning of something really special that, you know, we were living in it, but didn't realize what we were living in until afterwards. Obviously, look back and like, wow.

Right?

What was that? You know?

Yeah, it was a very special time. And, you know, at the time, you had liquid, which was like the spa in Miami, and you and Ingrid had opened up Joya and that place. Yeah. When you were there, you felt like you were in the south of France or in Capri or somewhere.

Joya was special. I mean, it was. You know, it had. It was an Italian place, but it was like home for all the real Italian. And, you know, the food was good. It wasn't the best food ever, but the ambiance and what Nicola created there and what we brought to the table, it was like you said, it was so special. It was like. You don't realize that I was 20, probably 6 years old at the time, 25. Well, younger. I was 25 years old.

Wow.

And, you know, every day, you have Donald Trump, you have all of us throwing Al Pacino, you have Luciano Pavarotta, I mean, Andrea Bocelli. He's like, what the fuck is going on here? You know, every day, so. And they weren't there to get their photos taken. They weren't there to get seen. You know, they were there to enjoy themselves. Miami was their spot that they were vacationing. You know, it was a special time.

Yeah, it was a unique time in Miami because it had. It had been rediscovered, and there was people from all over the world now living there, and it was really like this little European destination in the. The United States. And I remember, I think that's the first time I met Jennifer Lopez. I was making her, like, mojitos on the bar, and it was crazy. Like, every night.

No, she didn't drink back then. She. Once in a while, I would convince her to have a buttery nipple.

That was her drink.

That was her drink. So every once in a while, she'd have a shot. But she was good. She never drank. You know, not that she's bad. If she Drinks. But she was very, like, focused and, you know, a buttery nipple here and there. It was like, a big thing for her. I'll never forget, because it's a funny name of a drink. That's what she used to drink.

Yeah. But the magic of joy. You never knew who was going to come in tonight. And then I remember. So I worked there for a few months, and then I went back to Canada. And then I end up bumping into you at Chaos in New York. And you probably won't remember this, but you say, yo, you come back down to the beach. I said, yeah, I want to come down. He's like, cool. I'm working on this new spot. You got to come check me out. I want you to be there. And that new spot was Barroom special.

Place never gets the recognition from people, as Liquid did. Liquid was the first. And it really changed the landscape of Miami, you know, between the timing it opened, you know, and just what we brought there, what I brought thinking, like, knowing Miami, I mean, New York nightlife, there was nothing like that in Miami at the time. There was, like, these little bars that you would go back and forth to and bounce around, but there was no real nightclub at the time. So I. You know, Liquid really was that first nightclub. And I started bringing the big DJs back then, right. And nobody was doing that type of stuff. But ballroom was the VIP club. I mean, it was. It was. It was awesome. It really was awesome. Everybody had, you know, it was an amazing place and had the energy that it created. But it never had the name of Liquid unless you experienced it. You were local, you'll remember it. But it never, like, carried, like, the Liquid name.

Yeah, well, Liquid was open, like, six nights a week. I mean, it had fat back, fat black, Cat on Mondays.

Liquid had fat black.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

Yeah.

Liquid was open, like, six nights a week.

Liquid was open Thursday. Well, sometimes Wednesday, sometimes they didn't work out. But Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, we had our gay night, and Monday, Fat Black. So it was five to six nights a week the entire time of the club.

Yeah. And it was. It was open for quite some time, too.

We open Liquid November, I think, 16th of 95. It was the same weekend the Delano opened. Right. So we went to the Delano, and by the grace of God, I decided, let's just open. We weren't ready at all. It was like welders and painters as people were coming in the front door. It was. It was crazy. And that night, you know, I hate name dropping, but it's a reality. Who was there that night? It was, you know, Calvin Klein, David Geffen, Kate Moss, Naomi Campbell, Madonna, you know, the Estefan, Sylvester Stallone. Everybody was there, right? And I'm just punk kid from New York, 1995. Just had this little club called Risk. I knew some local people, but opening night, this club is packed with every celebrity. And I'm just looking around like, what the fuck is this? Look at that. You know, me and Ingrid and, you know, it was insane. And then, you know, it's funny because there was no social media back then. You know, there was really. The only way you get your press was from either Page Six or the monthly magazines and stuff. So, you know, the picture of Madonna with bleach hair or the Estefans or any of those people in the club were running in the Inquirer a year later, two years later, you'd see these pictures from the opening night, but they lasted for so long because it wasn't a lot of content back then and a lot of photos. So you'd sit on your table. Then there was those magazines lasted forever. So it was, you know, it was crazy.

Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. I had a lot of fun at Liquid. Many, many blurry, magical nights there, for sure. And Barroom, you know, it was like you said, the first. Not just VIP club, but like it was a large venue. It was a large ceilings, massive chandeliers. You had big palm trees in the club, like what you guys created there.

As like the first multi million dollar lounge to open. And, you know, the concept was a more relaxed, you know, like Rose bar in New York, you know, not so much moving lights and not craziness. But I learned real quick in Miami, every time somebody tries to open a lounge or a sophisticated place to go have a drink doesn't work. People want craziness. They want nightclubs. So that year I was in Ibiza for the first time. And I thought I was king shit. Before I went there, I knew everything about clubs. Liquid was on fire. And when I went to Ibiza, wow, it opened my eyes to a whole new world. And this is 1996. Nicola Ciervo brought me out there, and I was just a student of the game. I mean, I took everybody's phone numbers. Everybody. I mean, I brought back the VIP manager from Pacha, the percussionist from, you know, this club, all the DJ and the saxophone player. And, you know, when we opened Barroom, I had all this. And it was. It just exploded. It exploded.

Yeah, I remember working there. Super bowl weekend.

And again, it's like opening weekend.

That was opening weekend. And everyone you could possibly imagine was there. That was.

I remember. I don't remember how many. So we did a party for Tommy Hilfiger that night. We had the blimp above the place, and it was like, 59 celebrities that came in. I couldn't tell you. All from everywhere, from, you know. You know, Gwyneth Paltrow to what's the guy? From Anthony Kiedis.

Anthony. Oh, from Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Peppers were there that night. I remember there was. Lizzie Grubman was running the PR for us. Right? And there had to be. I remember the list for some reason. I remember the number was, like, 58 celebrities that came that night. And when I say celebrities, everybody who's everybody that was hot and relevant. It was a list. B list from that era that was in the club. And, you know, it was so hard to control that door that I said, fuck, I think we made a mistake here. I'm done. I'm not doing it. I almost lost it. And usually I'm pretty good on the pressure. And they were laughing at me later. It's like, you want to shut the door down and shut this party. You just made history. The COVID of Rolling it was everywhere in Rolling Stone. It was just an incredible night. And, like, you stood up in the DJ booth and look down and you see all these massive celebrities there for super bowl and Puffy and the whole entourage and just having fun, like, letting loose. And it was like the first night at a club, and I'm like, wow, what the fuck is this? You know, you're 20. I was 25 when Liquid opened. I was probably 26 when Ballroom opened.

Crazy.

You know, as a kid, you know, and I look back now and I talk to these kids nowadays that are 25, 20, 26, 22. When I opened my first con, like, how did I do that?

Yeah, that's.

That's really a boy amongst men in this industry. And, you know, I think the timing and the lack of intelligence was what made me so successful. Because if you. You know, once you really learn the industry or learn any business, it's much harder to make a decision to do something because, you know, all the things that could go wrong.

Yeah.

And me, I just had the balls and I just said, fuck it, I'm doing it, and opened it and, you know, to, you know, luckily we were very successful and we were destroying it.

And you were willing to take chances. Like, you said, you opened Up Liquid before you even ready. Why? Because you felt like, no, I need to get open. And you opened it.

You know, it was opening night. We promoted it. I'm looking outside and we had like a thousand people outside by 10 o', clock, 10:30. The mayor was hosting it at the time and you know, we were not ready. And everybody's telling me don't do it, you know, And I just took all the equipment, everything. We had a back hip hop room. We didn't open it that night and we just stuffed it to the top with everything possible. And like I said, the guys were getting off the ladders, welding and painting and you know, ran out the back door while people were coming up the front door. And it was a black box with some moving lights. And the thing that saved us, that gave us a little bit of something is one of the guys, we had these projectors on the walls that had these cool loops and gave some life to it. And you know, it was an amazing party. It was amazing party. It died out a little early that night. But that press and those images went around the world like rapid fire. And then everyone that came to Miami wanted to come to Liquid. And I watched tonights just go from 30,000 to 60,000 to 100,000. And this is back in 90.

Yeah. And 100 grand back in 95. You were doing a million dollar day.

Business at the bar. So imagine these registers ringing 5, $6,000 a night. You know, the VIP room was only, you know, 40% of the business and which wasn't, you know, big tables like we do have now, you know, now one or two tables makes the whole night of the club. You know, the rest are giving away, right? So, so, you know, the volume that we were doing, you know, we would do, you know, the club was. The Occupancy was like 450 people. And we would do 12, 13, 1500 people throughout the night, turn the lights on at 5:15. And the place was filled with people chanting we'd have to play another two, three songs. And you never forget those nights, you know, you never forget. And they were, they were very often.

You know, and they were very special nights in Miami, in the history of Miami. Because, you know, we were chatting about this before. Before it's like, you know, nightlife and what people go out for now is so different that, you know, we're at an age now where we've lived through some really monumental moments or special, I would say, like periods of time in nightlife, whether it be in Miami or Toronto, where it went, went from people really just going out to have fun, to socialize, to have some drinks and enjoy life to what it is now where people really go out just to fill their social media, to make money.

Get social media, you know. You know, to get. Get notoriety because they're spending money. You know, back then it was not like that at all. You know, you went out to really let loose and have a good time. Like, the celebrities came to Miami because they knew they could let their guard down, have fun. Nobody was taking pictures of them. They were protected when they went to the clubs. Like I had a squad of security. If you saw and take a picture, they would pull the camera out of your hand and take the film out. That's what we had back then, you.

Know, and that's what allows them to feel safe and allows them to be able to have drinks and make out with whoever and go off.

Right, right.

And, you know, so my time in Miami, you know, during those two years working at Joya, I even did a couple of shifts at Liquid and then work at Barroom. You know, when I went back to Toronto, I brought back all of those ideas. It's like. That's it exactly. It's like how you brought back all the ideas and concepts and even staff from Ibiza. I did the same when I went back to Toronto. Cause, you know, for Toronto, Miami was like Ibiza. It was like Miami was just this mythical place where anything was possible. And I met some DJs and experienced at Delano and experienced these concepts. Like Michael Capone had just come back to Miami. And I remember the theme parties he was doing and what he was creating were like. It was very creative things I had.

Never even got when I moved down there. And then he had his issues and he took off. It seemed like every. Every era. It not seemed like that. It was every era from before me till after me that somebody controlled the nightlife. There was a key guy there. And then something happened. They fell off and someone else took over and so forth. And it'll always be like, that's cool.

Yeah. So leaving Miami, went back to Toronto with all these different ideas. And, you know, I never knew what a promoter was. You know, I didn't bottle service. It didn't happen back then in Toronto. And then I started a party called Sundays in South beach, of course, and very Miami inspired. But that was the night that really blew me up as a promoter in Toronto. And then, you know, having experienced places like Joya and, you know, some of these sexy supper clubs like Bed Or Tantra, back in the day, where it was a restaurant but also had a DJ. And after 11 o', clock, the music came down, the music went up, the lights came down, and now it's like all of a sudden you're in, like, this sexy lounge. So, like, I even took that idea and implemented that into my restaurant, Blowfish, which I had for 15 years. And that really separated us from the other restaurants because we were. Yeah, we were a restaurant with a DJ. What, like in 19. This was 2004, we had opened that. And, you know, so much of what I've learned in Miami has helped me to, you know, build my nightlife career in Toronto. So, you know, I've. I've always said, you know, many times before, I said, thank you.

Yeah, that's from Toronto or anywhere in Canada. I sell. Yeah. You know, my friend Zark, everyone knew Zark, and everyone had great things to say.

Cool. I appreciate that. And, you know, I want to say thanks for, you know, spotting my hard work that day at Joya and offering me a job, you know, because it's like there's sometimes those pivotal moments in your life where one choice, you know, can change the trajectory, change the course of your life. And, you know, and the first was for me to say, I'm not going back to Toronto. I stayed that winter. And then the second was you saying, hey, what do you do here? You know, and you gave me that job. It's funny, I remember seeing Ingrid a couple of years ago at a party somewhere, and I went up to her, said, look, you don't know me. And this is going to sound crazy, but you and Chris changed my life. You know, you guys gave me a job, and that job, you know, taught me about nightlife. And then I went back to Toronto, blah, blah, blah. And she was just like, oh, it's.

The same with her. Yeah, she was blowing. She changed my life. You know, one day she walked into my first club called Risk, and I had these. I remember, forget this, these two gay kids, Ho Chi and Henry, worked for me at the time. And they run into the office. Do you know who's here? Do you know who's here? And there's Ingrid, Madonna's friend at the time. And that's how she was known, you know, not unfortunately, that's who she used to hang with, Madonna. And obviously, you hang with someone like that, you get known for. And I went out and became friends with her and, you know, got introduced to a few celebrities. I didn't know any celebrities back then. And Long story short, after Risk, I called her up and said, do you want to get involved with a nightclub with me? I'm doing another nightclub. You know, I knew all the locals and I knew she knew some of the high, you know, high profile celebrities and you know, she had a, an issue of her own at the time with drugs and because, because she had a new thing to look forward. She got passionate about it, she got clean, never did drugs again. And I helped her and I, you know, she took me out of this, you know, this little nightclub bar type thing and, you know, put me on a big platform and it just worked out, you know, amazing together.

Yeah, it sure did.

Yeah.

And you know, speaking about life changing choices and speaking about, you know, these different paths that we take, you know, for when I moved back to Canada, you know, I didn't see you for many years. You know, we kind of went in different directions.

Yeah, I went to jail. You kept.

Yeah, that happened. Yeah, yeah. And I remember seeing you in LA one time. I think you were involved with a venue out there and we chat a little bit about Miami and then, you know, after my career took off and things were going well, I came back to Miami. I used to have a place down south of 5th and you know, would see you, see you around periodically. And you know, I remember speaking to you one time. You were talking about opening up Rockwell. This was probably six, seven years ago.

Yeah, about six years ago now.

Yeah, you were working on Rockwell and at the time, I think you had started Anatomy by then or.

Yes, I did because I was involved with a nightclub with Grutman and Story and after about not even a year in business, a big public company wanted to buy his management agreement out and they couldn't go public with my name associated with it, understandably. So. So David was, me and him talked and we, you know, he gave me a buyout. I signed a two year non compete. So for two years, you know, I'm a go getter. I wasn't just going to sit around and do nothing. So I love working out and you know, I love, you know, health and fitness. So I decided, you know, to open a gym brand at the time that had a health and recovery component to it. So I started on that journey and right before the non compete was up, I had Anatomy open. I was having a pho suit, you know, the Vietnamese suit on Washington Avenue. And I look across the street and I see some maintenance work walking in and out of the old chaos, which was Laban before that. And it was always a Great room, right? So I jumped up, I ran across the street, I said, I want to look inside this place. And I opened the door, I said, you mind if I look into the guy? He says, not at all. I look in and I'm like, wow. It was just a clean white box.

Empty box, yeah.

And I said, I'm fucking opening a club here. And I signed the lease a week later, and everybody made fun of me. He's stuck in the past. Nobody goes to Washington Avenue no more. He's a joke. It's not gonna work. And I put no money into it. I mean, I opened. We. I say no. You know, I ended up becoming partners with, you know, Mio Danilovic, who, you know, I became friends with in la. Amazing human being, my brother. And we. And, you know, this girl Leah, who's a Canadian, who, you know very well, who's been working with me for 15 years, years. And the team that we had was amazing family. And, you know, we put like a million one in this place. I mean, I went and bought used refrigerator equipment, used bar equipment. We were carrying me and meal on U Haul trucks, you know, and we opened it for no money. But we laid that place out better than any club, I think.

Yeah, they didn't put a lot of.

Money and we destroyed it, you know, and everybody, you know, we made believers out of people. And I don't do it for the haters, and I don't do any of that stuff. I just believed in what we were gonna do. I knew we could attract the people there. I think the timing was perfect. Nobody was really playing hip hop at the time. If it was played hip hop, it was the clubs that you didn't want to go to.

Yeah, you created a high end, a higher end lounge vibe.

Right, right where, you know, you could let your guard down, have fun and not worry about getting into fights or whatever it is. So we opened this club and it took off, and for five, six years, it was on fire. I mean, really changed my life, you know. And then obviously, the pandemic came and we had a shutdown March 19. And that was a pivotal moment in my life because, you know, being away from the nightclub again at this age, you know, I just turned 50 years old and, you know, I was away from the nightclub for, you know, over a year. And, you know, when I was younger, in my 20s and in my 30s and I, you know, early 30s, I remember I used to be in the club and look at these people at a 40, 36, 38, I'd be like, what a loser. I hope I'm not going out at that age. You know, sit there, next thing I know I'm gonna be 50 years old, I'm sitting in a nightclub and I lost the passion for it. I just, I. I would go out and I wasn't a good host. I wasn't talking to people. I just didn't want to be there anymore. The social media stage and all this stuff, it just didn't make it fun. Plus, I'm getting older. I was going to be 50 years old. So we decided we had some offers on the table to sell the club. And I think it was a great decision. It. It broke that pattern and it's made me evolve as a human and get away from that industry. I was big on meditating during this time, and it was like the exact opposite. I remember coming back from a Vipassana retreat and I had these amazing experiences. And I walk into the club the next day and it was really like, I'm looking around and I honestly felt like I was on a movie. You know, in a movie, you know, when you watch a movie and they walk into that club and everyone's on drugs and everybody's. Everything's in slow motion and it looks like, you know, evil and Sodom and Gomorrah. And I felt that. And I'm like, whoa, I gotta get the out. And my brother Keith is like, I know you feel. Go ahead, get out of here.

Yeah.

And, you know, so it was. It was not exciting. I wasn't looking to drink and party and, you know, bring home girls and all that. I was just. I was over it, you know, so I finally kicked it, you know, so I'm happy about that. But of course, you know, it's something that, you know, you've done your whole life and you were good at it and you were known for it. So that when you're away from it, everyone else is doing it. You kind of feel like you're missing out a little bit. But you do know that your time, it's over. Let the younger guys do it. Let them enjoy it. It's not for me no more. So, you know.

Yeah. And, you know, props to you for having that realization and stepping away from something that you could keep doing this for another 10, 15 years, keep making lots of money, bigger houses, more cars, whatever. And, you know what inspired me to sit down and have this conversation with you is, you know, I feel that in many ways we've been living this kind of parallel lives where, you know, being in entertainment Nightlife, both going through our own challenges and kind of reinventing ourselves in some way. And I'll be very honest, when I saw that you had done like 2,000 days of meditation, I'm like, chris Pacello meditates.

What?

You know, and I remember you'd shared something about Vipassana and that you've been on. And it's something I've always wanted to do, but it's like, wow, 10 days. No talking, just meditating. You know, for those of you that don't know what a vipassana is, that's essentially it. It's 10 days. No technology, no books, no notepads, nothing. Just you and yourself and your mind and your consciousness.

10 hours a day of mandatory meditation and you go deep. It's tough. It's tough, you know, so it's easier for some people, but, you know, for those people, I guess, that have that racing mind, it's like us, it's tough to quiet that mind down and to get into that place where you start having these bliss, blissful moments. And that's when you realize, wait a minute. Wow, what was I missing here? You know, it's, it's a. It's changed my life, you know, it's changed my life for the better, for sure. I'm so happy I found it. And my brother talked me into going, oh, really? My brother Keith has done it several times.

Wow.

He grew up a little different than me. He grew up, you know, he liked weed, he smoked weed, he rides skateboard. I was out there robbing banks and being an animal and hanging out with a bunch of, of gangsters. And I grew up, you know, like, you know, you know, different level of consciousness. That was obviously all I knew. And, you know, when I moved to Florida, little by little, I would try to change that. But I was always, you know, no matter how much money I made, no matter how much success I had, no matter how, you know, notoriety, no matter who I dated, it was something missing. I was unhappy. And there was a lot of time that would explode and punch people and do all these stupid things that I didn't know how to release that pressure or whatever I was feeling. So in 2014, I went to Ibiza with some good friends of mine. We had a great time. I came back and I was just in a dark place, in a place where, okay, what am I going to do with my life here? You know? And my brother Keith told me, look, you have to try the Vipassana. So I signed up.

Had you been meditating at all before doing this. Wow. So you went in totally green.

Green. And I just said to myself, okay, fine, if he could do it, it's a reset, whatever, and it'll be good not to have a phone for 10 days. And you know, all that bullshit. And I made a few bets with my friends. I said, you'll never do it. I bet some money. So I went in there, you know, once I handed my phone, handed my keys, my valuables, and I walk in. Right away, my brain is telling me, what the fuck are you doing? You gotta get out of here. This is stupid. You got so many things going on. You can't be here. And it was a battle, you know? And every day, I was meditating on the second day. I'm like, that's it. I gotta leave. So I go see the teacher. And I was like, look, this is not for me. I gotta go. And the teacher basically told me, look, I called you in the beginning. I told you the second and the sixth day is gonna be the toughest. You know, just the second and the sixth. Second and the sixth, most people leave, oh, wow. He said, just give it a few more days. So I said, okay, fine. I go back in and I start meditating. But inside, it was more of a battle to me, saying, oh, if you leave your pussy, you bet this guy you're gonna lose. You know, all this stuff. It was more of a challenge then. I was there for the right reasons, to work on myself, right? So when the sixth day came early in the morning, when you say sixth day, it was really the fifth day. Because one day feels like a month, right? So I left. I packed my. I said, that's it. They're not talking me out of this. I'm out of here. That's it. I walk into the office, I tell, I'm gone. So he finally said, okay. They didn't want me to leave. Because, you know, not only do they not want you to leave, you're working on yourself, and you're going into a place you've never been. And I didn't realize any of that till the cab finally. I mean, I'm in the middle of the woods in Shelburne, Massachusetts. So as I'm leaving, I'm saying to myself, you're such a pussy. You're a failure. Why would you leave? And then when I walked outside, it hit me. It hit me. I was like, whoa, wait a minute. I was in the present moment. I wasn't thinking about anything. I had this thought that came over to me and said, you're not a pussy. You came, you jumped on a plane, you came, drove two hours up into the mountains, you sat in a room and meditated for six, five days. You know, be proud of yourself for once. You know, it's like you did this, so take it for what it is. So. And I felt that. And I'm like, you know what? I was proud of myself for trying it, right? But after, I don't know, when I went back, I think I went back about a year later, I knew I had to do it again.

Okay.

I started meditating a little bit. I tried to, you know, practice what they were teaching me. And then, you know, I had a calling to go back again. So I did it the second time. And I wouldn't bet anybody, I barely told anyone I was going. And I said to myself, you're gonna go there and this is gonna be work. You're gonna work, work, work. And sure, it was tough the first two, three days, but on that fourth day, I started having these blissful moments that like, I could not understand, like what was going on with myself. And I'm not taking drugs, I'm not doing anything. No drinking, no nothing. All you're doing is concentrating on your natural breath the way it is, if it's short, if it's long, if it's this. And just every time your mind races or goes away, you bring it back. And little by little, from shifting and moving, you know, by the fourth, fifth day, you're a rock. And you're sitting there and you, the pain, everything just pushing to the side and you just want everybody to feel what you're feeling. You know, the world would be a better place. So I knew I discovered something, a tool to help me quiet my mind, to better myself. And I don't want to get into the exact moments I had. But you know, I went to therapy. I've done all this stuff, you know, to try, you know, I would self sabotage, I would do things. And why would I do these things? So I would go to therapy and you know, I had PTSD from all my childhood growing up, you know, looking up to your father, he was your hero. He was on the Giants, he was a number two arm wrestler in the world, professional bodybuilder. He was big George. Everybody idolized him. To becoming a fall down heroin addict, to living on the streets and you know, no matter what you think it takes a toll on you. Absolutely. And creating these alter egos to protect yourself as a little kid and creating this alter identity to really save you. It's like a survival technique. I was breaking that down and I finally started feeling that. So I went to this therapist, and he used to tell me, look, he was an expert on ptsd, and he asked me a couple of questions. One time he asked me, he says, have you ever been proud of yourself? Like, truly proud of yourself? And I thought. And I said, you know, when I open a new place or it's successful, and I look down on the dj, whatever, and I say, fuck, I created this. So we created. And I say to myself, wow. You know, but it's on to the next.

Yeah.

Never really proud of myself, right? And then he said to. To get past your ptsd, you have to really relive it. And, you know, always thought in my head, that's crying and breaking down and getting scared and, like, reliving a dream or whatever. And when I went into the meditation, I went into this deep meditation one day on the fourth day, and I just, you know, little by little, as I was meditating, I'm feeling like, what the fuck is going on? I'm feeling like my brain going tight and twisting, but, you know, something's happening. Like, you know, you're breaking through barriers or, you know, going to your subconscious. And I know it sounds crazy, but I experience. And it was natural, so nobody could tell me different. I know what I experienced. So on the fourth day, I went into this space, like this zone, and I'm meditating, and I'm just, like, there. And I see all these milestones in my life, like, you know, all different things. My father, my mother, my brothers, my. You know, all things that happen to you throughout the life. Big, good, bad, indifferent. And I didn't feel them. It wasn't like I was a drawn to. I was just like, okay, I understand. And when I came out of the meditation, there was no one else in the room, right? I must have meditated for two hours. And right then and there, the tears just started coming down my eyes, and I just felt about 10 pounds lighter in my head. I just knew right then and there, I released everything that I had suppressed. All these years of not talking, you know, changing who I was, these tough guys and all this. And I just felt right then and there, I just let it all go. And that was the first time I had an incredible experience meditating. And that's changed me from that point forward. Then the next day, I went back and I went so deep again. And I had a transcendent experience where I don't want to get into it. It's A little too hocus pocus. But I had that experience that some people talk about, you know, and, you know, I didn't talk about it. I got up after that experience, and I just, like, walking back to the. To my room, and I was like, what the fuck just happened to me? Like, I was like, really? Like, whoa. But it was the most amazing feeling I ever felt in my life. I felt like I was gonna implode after the. The energy was pouring back into my head.

I know it sounds crazy not to be, man. Look, you're. You're talking my language. Yeah. Yeah.

So at the end of it all, I talked to the teacher about it at the last day, and he said, I had this incredible experience called bongana. And, you know, you are one of the few lucky ones. Some people never get it for years of meditation. Some get it quick. And you just happen to get this. I mean, if you could bottle that, buddy, you will be Jeff Bezos. You can't go back to who you are after these things, you know? And it's not like I took a drug and I had an incre. Crazy trip or whatever, because I don't do drugs, but it gave me this experience where you had a taste of it. And it's like, there's more to life than making money, fucking girls, doing all this stupid shit, you know? There's more to life. So that was the start of me really taking the meditation seriously and stripping away, you know, all these layers that I have built for over the years. And, you know, it's a battle still to this day. You know, it's like a couple of times I wanted to quit meditating because I felt like I'm alienating myself from my friends. I'm distancing myself. I'm becoming more introverted. I lost my mojo. You know, I'm not really, like, aggressive, and I'm not saying, you know. But then, you know, I say to myself, well, I haven't been in trouble. I haven't done anything stupid. I haven't punched. I haven't been faithful. Like, just a whole. Like a whole new person. So I said, let me just stick it out. Because all that is. Is me changing and the ego or whatever it is, trying to fight me from going back to the core of who I was before I. Building this. This. This guy. And so no matter how many times I go through a difficult time where I say, well, you know, I should stop, or this or that, no, I know it's the right thing for me. I built a fuse for myself. I'm able to handle things better, you know, I don't have racing thoughts now. It's amazing. It's almost like everything in my mind is compartmentalized and I could just pull at it when I want to, you know. And if I have a bad day, I could go in my closet and sit down and meditate. Within five minutes, I feel like I'm a wet sponge and it lets out and it just opens and I let go of everything. And it's almost like, you know, being a regular fighter compared to a black belt in jiu jitsu, you know, you can't fight a black belt in jiu jitsu. I don't care how tough you are. They just know it so much. So I have a tool now that makes me de stress and be a better, you know, and, you know, be more in the present that, you know, that other people don't. That don't really apply this stuff. So it's, you know, and they teach you there, you know, it's like people, they go on vacations or they go and, you know, the Maldives to go on their boats and they think that, you know, shutting their phone off for a few days. Sure, it makes you feel better for the short term, you know, if it's like a. Or you do yoga and those type of things. But it's really on a superficial level where you feel good for that moment. But that shit is still in there.

Yeah. What's at the core, what's creating the emotions, behaviors. It's still there.

So this, as the teacher explains, goes so deep all the way in there and takes everything out and heals you. When you leave, you have a tool now, you feel like, amazing. Like in the present moment, you read a magazine or read a book, whatever, the words are coming into you and you're like understanding every. I used to listen to Eckhart Tolt after the second, the first time I went and he'd talk about the pain, body and this. And we're like, what is this guy talking about? After the second time I went to Vipassana, it was like he was talking to me. I knew everything that he was saying and felt it. I experienced and all that stuff. So I got lucky. On the second time I went after. Besides having those experiences, when I was packing my bag leaving the Vipassana, this young kid, skinny kid, you know, probably Indian ethnicity, looked like a yogi or something. He said, hey man, I see that you work out. I see that you got some muscles. He said, I would really love to, you know, get in the gym and put some muscles on. He said, but look, he said, remember this? He said, see the discipline you have with working out? He said, if you use that same discipline, what you meditations, you're going to live a long, happy life. So it stuck with me. And I'm so happy he said that because after. I would much rather miss a workout than a meditation, you know, and. And that's been, you know, the driving force of all these changes that I've had throughout the last couple years, especially getting out of hospitality, you know, still doing the fitness industry, because it's a positive, healthy industry, but like building a house in Costa Rica, wanting to spend more time there, you know, for my 50th birthday in September, you know, everybody wanted to throw me a big party in Vegas. And I said, you know what? I don't want to do this. I don't wake up with a hangover, a headache, feel like shit. So I went with my girl, went to Italy, took a motorcycle trip for 25 days around Italy and enjoyed it, you know. So, yeah, I'm alienating myself. I'm distancing myself from certain people, but that's me either evolving and them not, or them feeling that I'm not the same person. But it's okay.

I would say you're making choices that are more aligned with what's actually truly important to you at your core, fundamental essence, you know, like you, you know, yourself.

I didn't know myself. Yeah, I didn't know that shy, young, scared boy.

Yeah.

Who created this. This, you know, survival, tough, you know, whatever. Everybody, you know, knew me for this club, tough guy, whatever. To going back to that guy, you know what? You know, I've been able to walk away from things, you know, that I would never have been able to walk away from now, you know, someone disrespecting me, making, you know, saying something stupid, cutting me off in a car. I would chase them down, and if I didn't, I would feel like a pussy, like, for a year, a month. Like, I should have punched that guy. Should. It would, like, hurt me, you know. So I thank God, you know, that I'm able to, you know, thank my brother for. But I'm really proud of myself now for sticking with it and finding it. I've sent so many people to it, you know, maybe 15 people, and each one of them just has a profound effect on him and thank me up in. And some of the people that went and had an amazing experience in the beginning stopped meditating in a year later. Have called me, said, I have to go back my life, I'm right back to who I was. So you have to maintain the meditation to keep that distance in that space that you are creating.

Yeah. And you know, hearing about your vipassana experiences when we spoke, you know, a few months ago, definitely inspired me to look into it. I've been looking for place and it's got to be the right time and lining up and it's never the right time. Never the right time.

You just gotta sign up and as close you get, you start saying, wow, I'm really gonna do this. And you just do it. Because nobody has 10 days. Yeah, everybody's busy. Everybody has a family, everybody has kids. But you know what? When Jack Dorsey went three, four times so far and continues to do it, or, you know, there's so many very, very wealthy, successful people that go there along with everybody, every regular people, you know, because once you do it, once you feel the benefits and you know, this is like something that makes you more successful, makes you, you know, more handle more stress and pressure and just be able to deal with it everyday. Things that make people go crazy, you know?

Yeah. And even though I meditate every morning, I can feel that when I'm back in Miami or back in Toronto, the vibration of the city, city, the pace. All of a sudden I'm scrolling and I'm messaging and I'm doing all the things that I don't do in Costa Rica. Yeah, you get, you get pulled back in. And, you know, I relate to what you're saying about losing your mojo and feeling like, where's my hustle? Where's my grind gun? I don't need all this. I don't need all this money anymore. Because I went through that when I moved to Costa Rica. I was like, but then you can't be a hippie and live on earth. No, no.

Because something. But what you did and I commended and I, I was envious for a while. Say, this guy's doing what I want to do. He moved away. He completely changed his life. He seems happy. When you talk, you're glowing. And, you know, he's talking about all the things that most people have and everybody wants to disappear, live on an island and do all that stuff. They don't know how, you know, and it takes a lot of balls to do it. And I commend you for doing it.

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. And as we were talking about before, you know, when you start to understand who you really are and what actually makes your soul Happy, not what makes your ego happy, what makes your soul happy. And then it's like you can no longer be that person or be with certain people or do certain things when, you know, it just. There's that resistance, there's that dissonance. And it's like, okay, well, are you going to choose in this moment to honor what's really important to you that makes your soul happy, or are you going to give in to the future fear of your ego and continue to be someone who, you know, you don't want to be?

For me to develop that and to. Because I was, you know, a full on lunatic, right? And, you know, to, to get that fuse and to have that conscious and stop myself and say, don't do this. You know, it took a long, long time and it's a. It's still a battle. I mean, I'm not healed. I'm not, you know, but I. That's one of the main reasons why I said I don't care, you know, how many clubs I could open, how many, you know, accolades I could achieve. And, you know, I would much rather live in the present, much rather be secure of who I am now than go back into that world. So that's why I don't want to stop meditating, you know, as much as some, you know, I know if I start, maybe I could be a little more aggressive, a little more successful, but all the rest comes with it. And I'm in a better place now, for sure. Yeah. And having all the money in the world, you know, I don't need. I'm not looking like back in the day. I had a big house, I wanted a bigger house. I had the big boy. I wanted a bigger boat. I had the best, you know, I wanted 10. It didn't matter. You can never fulfill that. So I realize that now. And I'm at a point in my life where I'm content, you know, and thank God I've done very well for myself. I'm content. And I know that I would much rather, you know, go on vacations. And when everybody goes here, I go there. You know, everybody goes to Mykono CBs or this. I want to go to, you know, Costa Rica. I want to go to places where there's not a lot of people, where I'm enjoying the actual trip. Not just because I'm.

Because you don't need all those distractions anymore. You're not looking for that external validation and, you know, to point about homes and the cars and the boats and all that stuff. It's like, you know, you go through this journey. I think it's actually Eckhart Tolle that shares this in the New Earth that says that, you know, we spend a part of our life looking to fulfill our outer purpose, and that's success, validation, you know, possessions, material things, and we need to pursue those things and achieve them for us to realize, like, okay, that's actually not.

Mike Tyson says it best. He says, I wish everybody could make a lot of money and get fame.

Yeah.

Because. Because it's not what it is, you know, And I, you know, listen, I've been on the top, you know, and I, you know, I had all the nightclubs, all the restaurants, the hottest girls and the celebrities, and I had it all. And Al was at the bottom the next day, the gum on his shoe, you know, and then I've come back to a point where I've been, you know, very successful and got some. All the other stuff, and I proved to myself I could do it. But I'm at a point now where I don't need to, and I don't need anyone's accolades. I'm happy with who I am and what I'm doing now. So, like I said, I'm in a good place.

You are. It's been beautiful to witness, and that's why I was so excited to sit down and catch up with you, because I want to learn more about your story. But I also know that there are a lot of guys, and I'm speaking specifically to the guys out there, especially the successful ones who have the cars, oats, wives and mistresses, all the. All the stuff that, you know, they.

Think that you don't know what you're talking about because they're in that world. You had it. You were the guy in Canada. You had a lot of money. You spent a lot of money, you know, and I've done it twice. And, you know, sure, I've always wanted to be successful. I always want to be proud of myself, make money. But there's. It's not my driver. It's not my goal anymore. It's not my everything, you know, so it's a good place.

And for those guys who are in that grind of chasing, chasing, you know, some of them are going to listen to this conversation and they're going to be like, you know, okay, I kind of understand what he's talking about, but, you know, I don't know if I'm quite ready for that. You can.

Chris lost his mind. But it is what it is.

I don't care, you know, and they can keep buying stuff and, you know, going to Mykonos and Ibiza and finding temporary ways to feel that dopamine hit to make them feel better or to suppress the pain. But the truth is, is no big boat, no big car, no private jet is ever going to make totally, but none of it is ever going to make that hurt little boy inside you feel better. Like for you, for the Chris that was, you know, dealing with the situation with your father, for me, who was dealing with racism, being bullied and picked on, it's only when you go within and you make peace with that little boy and you let him know he's loved, he's enough, he's safe, that you can heal that part of you that needs to feel that you have to go out and prove yourself to the world, that you've got to be that tough guy or you got to be that playboy, you got to be that guy who drives that big car. Because a lot of these men, and which is why I switched my coaching to work specifically with men, is because I know that what drives them to be successful is the pain of a little boy that's inside there that has never been able to deal with themselves. And when you're in meditation, when you're on a retreat, when you're in a.

Vipassana, when I'm on that motorcycle, it's a meditation to me, but I'm still, look, you're on a motorcycle, you're riding, you have someone on the back. You have to be very aware. But it's also like, you know, you're alert, but you're in a zone. And that's why I enjoy taking these road trips and going for seven, eight hours a day on a motorcycle.

I love it because during that time, shit comes up. And when that shit comes up, can you be with your shit? Because a lot of people can't. That's why for a lot of people, a vipassana is like, that's like the ultimate form of torture.

Help me. You're different. You use every excuse not to go. But, you know, everybody could get a benefit from it. There's nobody that would go there that would be. Not get benefits from it. And, you know, I'm not of a parashana, you know, I don't make money. It's free. You know, you go there, it's free, they clothe you, they eat. But it's such a tough course that you really get to the depth of your issues. And, you know, if everybody did it, it would Change the world. Absolutely.

The reason I asked you to share your story is because, look, truth is, guys look up to you. You know, know, like, men look up to the life that I live and all the stuff that I had. And whether it be the fitness, the girls, or the trips or the clubs, you know, men look at you and, you know, you've lived the life. You know, you live the life that a lot of men aspire to. And the fact that you've had this transcendental experience where you've discovered you know more about yourself, you're at peace, you're healthy, mentally, physically, and meditation has played such a big part in that, you know, I'm hoping, you know, it's my intention that there are men that watch this video, and women, of course. But, you know, for the men who think I don't need meditation, you know, they watch this video and they'd be like, okay, you know what? That sounds interesting. And fuck it, if Chris Pacello can do it, I can do it.

I mean, I've sent a lot of people, like I said, and each one of them have been so thankful, profound, like, messages that I get. You didn't just help me, you saved my life. That type of stuff.

That's it. And that's the best friend or someone.

You know, when you talk to someone about it, you can see somebody asks you if they're truly interested. I love talking about it. You know, that's why I did this. I don't do podcast. I don't care. You said meditation. I said, okay, let's talk about. Be fun to talk about. But you see, when some people are just listening, but they're not paying, and then I just change the subject, whatever. But, you know, each person that I send or each person I talk about getting into the, you know, I feel good inside that I'm helping someone change their life. Because, you know, what happened after the first time, Especially the girl Leah, your friend, you know, I said, I'm thinking about going back to Vipassa. She should do it. I'm like, what do you mean? You know? Right? And she goes, well, honestly, everyone really saw the difference in you. Everybody.

Even though it's five days, I love her.

And I see, you know, what if I could make the people around me like me more and be nicer to them, I'm gonna do it. And I did it. And thank God I did.

That's beautiful. Yeah. Because it shifts your vibration.

Yeah.

You know, you're now operating from a place of self, love, compassion, and people around you. Feel that.

Do you feel different when you go back home and you're around some of your old friends that are still doing the same thing?

Yes, absolutely. Because, you know, especially in Toronto right now, there's, you know, in the collective consciousness, there's a lot of fear. You know, there's a lot of, yeah, people are scared, you know, so when I am with people who are in that environment, in that industry, you know, I can be with them and I could feel their energy. I could feel how they're in fight or flight, you know, that they're just scattered, that their brain is just. And I get it. And it's interesting to be with them because I'm like, wow, that's. That's who I was. That's what I was like. You know, the thing is, we're all on our journey at different points in time in our life, you know, and I can now see that there were people who tried to help me wake up. There were people who tried to, like, intervene and be like, yeah, you know, they saw the real me.

You think they're jealous? You think that, hey, you know, they want what I have?

Yeah.

I love that picture you posted in your BMW with the watch. And how many of them do you see on Instagram every day where you get the glimpse of the boots and the watch and the car, the Ferrari, and you know who you are. And I know now, I mean, everybody knows what they're doing, but some people look up to that.

At the time, I was just so caught up in my identity, you know, Like, I was so caught up in being Zark, the King Street Club guy, you know, who had to, like, show up at the party with the hottest girl and wearing my Tom Ford or whatever, like, that was my identity. And my friends who really knew me, they saw the hurt little boy. They saw the real Zarak behind the facade of Zark. And they tried to speak to me, but I wasn't. I just wasn't ready to see that yet, you know? And it's through this journey of going to Costa Rica and, you know, hitting my financial professional rock bottom and having to start all over again that I really got to know myself, you know, on a deeper level. And that's why, you know, for a lot of people who are knowing that something's missing, they're scared of the change. They're scared. Scared to leave that identity because, you know, if you're the CEO or you're the big shot at your company and you're worth lots of money, you got all kinds of People kissing your ass because you're the boss and you're driving that fancy car, whatever. Like, who are you if you choose to walk away from that?

But you don't have to walk away from agree. You have to deal with it better. Like, you have to, you know, be able to, you know, step back and appreciate it for what it is, you know. Yes, you have a lot of responsibilities, you're running a lot of employees, you're doing a lot of things. But if you're coming from a present state, you're making better decisions, you're handling it better, you know, you're nicer. It's just it. Because I feel like a vipassana salesman. But, you know, part of the thing is in Burma and these places, you know, they say the most stressful job out there is the garment factory. And they actually pay these people their time at work when they want to go do a vipassana, because when they're done, they're able to handle a lot more better and, you know, stressful. So it's just, it's a tool. You don't want people to get scared and say, well, I'm going to lose my drive or I'm not going to. It just makes you more, you know.

Better at handling for sure and make you more conscious of loan exact choice. And actually, you know, part of the reason why I'm in Miami is I've been hired by a company called Mr. Hospitality to lead retreats and teach them about breath, work, meditation and mindfulness. Because the owner of the company, Matthew, he's been doing his own personal development work, and he sees how it's shifting his beliefs and his energy, and people in the offices are feeling it. So now he's like, I want to take this beyond the office. I want to take this to entire team now. You know, so when you do the work and you elevate your vibration and you do what's necessary to heal and become complete, you were not just doing it for yourself, you're doing it for everybody around you. Absolutely. So, you know, like, I'm so happy we got a chance to sit down and have this conversation. You know, your story has inspired me. And there's actually. And there. Thank you, thank you. And there's a vipassana coming up in Nosara at Pachamama at end of the month. So I'm actually today going to go online and see if they have spots because I wanted to do the one over. It's over Christmas and New Year's. I thought, what better way to Start. But I'm planning on launching my new online program first week of January. But that's getting, that's actually getting pushed back now because of the editing. So now that opportunity has opened up and this conversation has definitely inspired me to do it. So I'll let you know when I register. So first, someone who's watching this, who's never meditated before and this story, this conversation has inspired them. What tips would you give to someone who's never meditated or new to meditated, new to meditation that you could share with them that would help them to develop a practice and begin their own journey?

Well, I can only speak for Vipassana because I never tried other forms of meditation. But if you are not meditating, it's even better because you don't go in there with a different technique. You go in there open minded to try this technique and the teacher asks you in the beginning, I'm sure everybody is into yoga or some type of breath work or chanting or humming or whatever the case may be. Please push that to for now and just follow this technique. And so the greener you are at it, the better and the more you know, the deeper you'll go. And if you have, if this resonated with you at all, it's because there's something in you that's the calling. You should just sign up no matter what, you know, no matter how much you know, you think you don't have the time to do it, you're too busy once you sign up for it. I realized I had a lot going on too. Obviously more than most people. But as you get closer, you just figure out how to make it happen.

Right?

You know, if you got into an injury, an accident or something, you know, you don't plan and go to hospital, but if you're there for 10 days, you're there for 10 days, there's nothing you could do about it. So this is something like, you know, going to the hospital, go making yourself better. So I would just say sign up, take the shot and you won't regret it. I mean you'll, you, everybody gets a benefit out of it.

Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. I, yeah, appreciate you sharing that. And I'm definitely going to follow your lead. And yeah, it helps you on every.

Other path of your life. It's not about posture, it's just about, you know, this journey of getting back to who you are at the core, you know. Yeah.

And yeah, I'm gonna, yeah. And there's a quote by Eckhart Tolle. It's so perfect, I'm gonna share it. He says, you spend half your life trying, try to become someone.

I know the quote.

And then you'll have to try to get back to who you once were, you know, and that's what vipassana. That's what meditation does. It helps you get back to who you really are at your true core essence, without the identities, without the stories, without the baggage that we carry with us through life.

You don't have to go through, you know, getting arrested and spending eight years in jail. You don't have to do all the things, you know, to realize there's more to life, you know, start working on yourself now before these things. Things do happen to you for, you know, because when everybody goes through up and downs and when those downs happen, you know how to prepare for them, you know, and you just, you become even keel, like, even with the good things in your life, you know, you become like, you know, because everything comes and goes, good and bad, so you just deal with things a lot better and a lot more focused.

Amazing. Well, thank you, my friend, for sharing my story. I appreciate it. And looking forward to hanging out more in Costa Rica this winter.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And.

And you're gonna see me in Miami more, too.

Good.

It feels good to be back.

You're happy to have.

Yeah, I've missed Miami.

And we don't have to go out, party and drink it.

We could go to. There you go. Pop a bottle of kombucha, yo.