Why I Left a Six-Figure Salary for Men’s Circles & Wellness | Dan Fotopoulos X Path Podcast

When the money starts rolling in, it's like, whoa. Like, there was so much that showed up of like, what do I even do with this? Like, am I even worthy? My parents worked their whole lives, 30 plus years. My mom is a nurse and my dad in factories. When people ask like, you know, why? Why are you accumulating properties? Why are you so obsessed with financial freedom? I was like, well, financial freedom is like the goal. Doesn't everybody want financial freedom? Because then I'll have more things, more stuff, more relations. Everything will be better to some extent. It's like, okay, more money does give you a lot more freedom, but then what do you do with that freedom? Most people don't even really think ahead of time. What am I going to do when I get my time back?

Welcome to the Path to Purpose podcast where I share incredible conversations with amazing humans who went through a pivotal shift in their lives that have put them on their path of purpose, profit and impact. My name is Zaraq Fatah. I am a serial entrepreneur and life coach. I went through my own transformational journey where I'm now committed to living life of inspiration, education and empowerment. My intention is to share these conversations so they inspire you to also walk your path to purpose. Welcome back to the Path to Purpose podcast. Today I'm sitting down with my good buddy Dan Fotopoulos, who is a co founder of the Everlove Healing wellness movement space here in Collingwood. He's also a realtor, also a former nightlife guy, a real estate investor, and today we're going to dive deep into his unpredictable journey of going from being a successful realtor and ending up here in Collingwood, co owning and facilitating men's circles at his wellness center. So, Dan, good to finally sit down and chat with you. I've been trying to make this happen for a little while and I'm happy it aligned. And I'm excited to dive in because even though we met each other three years ago in Nosada, you know, we, we've, we've had this friendship that we see each other intermittently, but we never really had a chance to drop in. And one of the things I love most about these podcasts is I actually get to learn a lot about my guests. Even though I know them, we get to dive in deeper. So I'm excited to have you share your journey. So thank you for being here today, buddy.

Thanks, brother. I'm really happy to be here.

Yeah, so. And I forgot to mention, Dan is also a father. A new father. Your daughter's how old now?

She Turns to this Saturday.

Okay. I love it. Cool. So, you know, I think your story is very inspiring. I think a lot of men and women will benefit from this conversation because your, you know, I say your path is kind of unpredictable in the sense that it was. What's the word I'm looking for? I mean, as we said before the camera started rolling, if someone had told you 10 years ago you'd be living in Collingwood, you know, co. Owning a wellness facility, you'd be like, yeah, right. You know how.

Yeah.

And I would love for you to just share a bit about, you know, your trajectory of what life was like before you moved out here and, you know, going back into. Cause I know, you know, you've been quite successful in the real estate space and in. In other businesses before, in the corporate world, before you kind of had that moment of, wait a minute, is this what I want my life to be about? So please give the viewers and listeners a little background on. Who is Dan Fotopoulos?

Yeah. What a powerful question. Who is Dan Fotopoulos? I mean, I guess to start, I try to ask myself that question often every once in a while, and I think we all should, because that answer changes as the years go by, and I think that's okay. And so the one thing that I think that I've learned is that it is okay to have different iterations of myself. You know, when New Year's rolls around and we set our goals and stuff. Actually, this past New Year's with a couple close friends, I had said, oh, you know, I'm on the. I'm in the seventh iteration of Dan. And they all kind of laughed. What are you even talking about? And I really do feel like that sometimes. And I think that, you know, when we think about evolving in our journeys, I think sometimes shame can come up when we change, you know, we change our friend circles, we change the title, we give ourselves, we change our hobbies. And I think it's really easy for us to experience shame when we make those changes. And a lot of fear can come up about, well, what are the people from my previous iterations of myself going to think of me? Right. I'm stepping outside of that box. And so I think that's first and foremost. Yeah. Depends how deep you want to go into the story. But I guess, you know, I'll start highlighting and you can dive in at any point. You know, I got into to the corporate world of Sunlight Financial when I was 20, pretty much right out of high school. Just fell into it. Didn't know what I wanted to do yet and got into the call center, you know, had a salary of 30k a year plus benefits, which at the time felt like a lot. It was a big deal leaving, you know, Wendy's and Walmart and all the other jobs I had in high school. And I realized very quickly, like, wow, people, a lot of people were very comfy where they were. People weren't really trying to climb the ladder, they weren't trying to do anything. And so I, I, you know, naturally I started climbing the ladder and next thing I was there for 10 years from the age of 20 to 30. And I had 11 different roles over 10 years, which is wild. And you know, I think it was when I was 21 I started having conversations with some of my dad's friends who you know, from a financial success standpoint, my dad is absolutely not. But he had one or two friends that were really successful, or at least I saw them as quote unquote successful because they had nice houses. And I said, what, you know, what's, what's some advice you would give a 20 year old? And they said, oh, you should invest in real estate. Because I should have started doing that way younger because, you know, time, like over time. And so I thought that was interesting. So I bought two different books. One was Rich Dad, Poor dad, which, you know, to sum it up, what I remember from that was simply it doesn't matter how much money you make, it's what you do with your money that's more powerful. So whether you're making 30k a year or 60k a year, the, the, the person making 30k a year can create much more financial success if they're just a little bit more strategic with what they do if they put their money to work for them as opposed to buying a $10 latte every day. And so that one was really powerful. And then there was a real estate investing book by Don Campbell in Canada. Read that. And so I purchased my first property when I was 21.

Nice.

And you know, back then it was 160K. I only need 5% down. That was 10K, which 30% of my salary. But I saved really hard and instead of moving into it, which I really wanted to do because I would have been so cool at that age, I stayed living in my parents basement. I rented that out two to three years of mistakes, renting to people that I knew, you know, landlord tribunal. Like every mistake you can think of a landlord making I made in the first two, three years and ultimately sold that property three years later and lost money because I wasn't a realtor at the time. So between commissions, whatever, and when I sold that property, I sold it for slightly less than what I bought it for. And had I waited four months, it would have been up about 50k. And so it was very easy for me at that time to be like, I failed at this. I did everything wrong. This is not meant for me. And you know, the timing, I got screwed, blah, blah, blah, woe is me victim. And instead I did it again. I bought another place and then every two years, about another place. Then I started converting them to duplexes, then triplexes. And so by the time I hit 30, I had seven properties, 14 or 15 doors. We would always kind of live in one of them. And the reason why I say that is because I think no matter what it is, whether it's real estate or anything in life, the first time we do something, you know, you know, we have this imposter syndrome because we're new and we likely should fail. Like most of the time we fail. And so either we say, well, not for me, or what do we do with all the failure, all the mistakes we made, right? Like to take those and then learn from them. That's why the second time around, you know, whether it's business, whether it's real estate, whether it's romantic relationships, right? The second time around, you know, so much more, right? And so, but so many people never tried a second time, right? Like any, I would have loved to seen Tiger woods first time golfing, you know what I mean? So I think that's important for people to realize. And so I think I've, I've looked at so many aspects of my life in that lens. What would it like, what would it look like if I took the lessons now and did it again? So I guess fast forwarding a bit, you know, when I was 30, you know, six figure salary, you know, on my way to be a director, avp, I could see it all, but I just wasn't happy. I was like, I don't, I don't give a shit about insurance. No ounce of me is passionate about insurance at all, right? And so, you know, I started asking myself the question, like, what, what would I do? What am I good at? Right? What are my gifts and what am I passionate about? And can I find that intersection of where my gifts hit my passions? Because wherever that X marks the spot is that's my purpose, that's on brand. And it's funny because I remember the day that I was sitting with my fiance, talking about how I was gonna become a financial advisor because I wanna help people. I have the gift of connecting with people. I have the gift of helping people. I'm good with numbers. And so I was gonna become a financial advisor because Sun Life Insurance, blah, blah, blah. And she said to me that one day we were just driving and just kind of talking, and she said to me, what? Like, are you passionate about mutual funds? And I was like, no, not really. I don't have any of my money in mutual funds. It's all in real estate. She's like, right, so why are you not becoming a realtor? And I was like, well, because I don't want to sell things. I don't want to be a sales guy. She's like, well, what do you think you're doing in financial advising? I was like, shit, she's right. I'm going to sell something that I'm not passionate about. And when I could just sell something that I. That has worked for me and created financial success for me. And it was one of those. It's the power of questions and also the power of having really good quality humans around us to ask those questions. Because, like, how did I miss asking myself that question? It seems so obvious now. So, got my real estate license. Naturally. I didn't have a normal real estate career start that most realtors have. You know, rookie of the year, first year, you know, within, I don't know, top two or three of the firm, the second year of 50 plus realtors. And that was, I mean, I think there's a couple things that bake into it, but I was doing real estate investing for 10 years before I got my license, so a lot of people already thought that I was a realtor because of social media whatnot. But a lot of it is, is people. I mean, and you know this because you know a lot about the space, but people, there's. There's two things. A, they have to know you're a realtor, right? When people think about doing something, and B, they have to trust you.

Right?

And so I was in Kitchener my whole life. Reasonably good guy, you know, questionable judgment at times, but for the most part, people knew I was, you know, a good human. And so those two things made me really successful off the bat. Right? Is that trust and also that knowing. So, yeah, maybe I'll pause there and see if there's anything you want. Specifically, I'm enjoying.

Yeah, enjoying learning about your trajectory because I didn't know much about the sun life thing. I knew you're a realtor. I knew you'd done well at it. But I mean, you know, owning seven homes by the age of 30, I mean, that's pretty freaking impressive, you know. So, yeah, no, please continue on, just share more. Because, you know, as you said, like, when you're on that trajectory and you're making money and things are just flowing, it's hard for us to kind of take a step back and ask those questions because we just see it from the bubble that we're in. Right. So, yeah, please share more about the real estate journey.

Yeah, I mean, I think other things to highlight too is I remember before I left the corporate, you know, my parents and anybody around me was like, you have a six figure salary, you have benefits, you've already built 10 years into a pension, a really good, like, pension plan. At some level, like you're set, like you're insane to go leave and just, you know, go into real estate. Right? You know, it's like 70% of realtors fail. Like, it's high.

Right?

And I remember sitting on a bench in Victoria park in Kitchener, and I said to myself and my fiance, Cause she was making, she was considering making a move at the time because I actually met her at Sun Life, so maybe that's why I was supposed to be there. Oh, there you go. To meet her. But I said to myself, okay, if I can make 100k a year, you know, cozy at SunLife, or I can make 50k a year doing something I'm passionate about, like real estate, which would I choose? And the answer was, I would rather make 50k a year doing something I'm passionate about. And so it was at that moment that I said, okay, fuck it, we gotta. I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna leave. And I think that's a good, I think that's a good thing for people to ask themselves. Whatever you're doing right now, if you could make 60 or 70% of that, but do something you're passionate about, which would you choose? Like, that's a, that's a telling question to ask yourself. But the irony is, is if you actually leave and do the thing you're passionate about, you're not making less than what you're doing. Right.

Make more. Yeah. Because you wake up every day with that, the emotion of joy and gratitude. You bring that energy to what it is you're doing. So. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, like if we, you know what, if I'm successful in the corporate world where I, where I don't actually care, I'M like faking caring. I'm just like half caring and I'm doing well, then imagine if I actually cared, I would do really well.

Right?

And so, you know, I don't remember what it was. The first year, 250, 300k, second year is like 500k. Like, I was making amounts of money that I hadn't even fathomed. Right? And that was, and it was amazing because that's not why. That's not why I made the move. I made the move because I wanted to work with people and help coach them through, you know, the analytics of finding the right property and coach them how to, how to manage tenants and like, how to be a good landlord. Right? And how to, you know, how to have more freedom in your life so that you can be free to build better relationships. And so I went into it for the right reasons and then the money was just a bonus, right? Now, that being said, when the money starts rolling in, it's like, whoa, like, there was so much that showed up of like, what do I even do with this? Like, am I even worthy? Because my parents worked their whole lives, you know, 30 plus years. My mom was a nurse and my dad in factories, and they have nothing to show for. Like, they still rent today, you know, paycheck to paycheck. And so there was a lot of stuff coming up for me of, like, now I'm coming into all this wealth and abundance and like, am I even worthy of this? Because I never imagined that I would have this kind of success. And I think the other thing too is, you know, all of the rental properties, like when people ask, like, you know, why are you accumulating properties? Why are you so obsessed with financial freedom? I was like, well, you know, financial freedom is like the goal. Like, doesn't everybody want financial freedom? Because then I'll have, you know, more things, more stuff, more relationship, Everything will be better.

Right?

And you know, to some extent it's like, okay, more money does give you a lot more freedom, but then what do you do with that freedom? Right? There's, there's a, there's a. Most people don't even really think ahead of time. What am I going to do when I get my time back? Often we just fill it with making more money.

Yeah.

Which is what I was doing, you know, at SunLife. I was 40 hours a week, real estate. I was 80, living out of my car, you know, looking for the closest Wendy's in between showings. Like, eating like shit, not going to the gym anymore, you know, Stress a lot of the time. You know, some of my relationships were being impacted, right? Like when, you know, when Ariana was pregnant and like bedridden for like nine months, it's like I was running out doing showings and like, coming back in between and bringing food and whatever. And it's like to not be there with her as much as I wanted to be, because I had, you know, created this big wheel that I wasn't in control of and also hadn't set boundaries with myself or my clients. Right. It's like all hours of the night, I'll answer my phone, guaranteed, right? So there was. There was so many things that were showing up. And then another thing that comes up for me is we grew up in a. In a. An apartment building, you know, downtown Kitchener. Like, I don't want to say it was. It was like lower to middle class. Like, it was roughish. But I'm privileged in a sense, because I had two parents who loved me unconditionally. That's the biggest privilege that I've identified that I had now. So I don't have a ton of, like, childhood trauma, but when I was 16, 17, 18, 19, the house that my parents had bought, they both kind of lost their jobs. My mom went in and out of anxiety, depression, you know, she was prescribed oxycodone for her back. So she was on that for 20 years. There was withdrawal. She had to go to Homewood multiple times in Guelph addiction facility. All this stuff really came up and ended up, you know, they went bankrupt, they lost the house. A lot of really traumatic things happened, and I had to grow up really fast. And so, you know, I was a big, big party guy from like the age of 16 to probably 21, 22. And a lot of that was me having to step up and be the adult so quickly and parent my children or parent my children. Parent my parents, right. So you can see how I still view it comes through, but. And then I would go party really hard to, like, have fun, because that was being suppressed and having to be so serious at home trying to save the family. Anyways, the reason why I tell that is because it wasn't until I was 30 that I realized, oh, shit. The reason why I'm obsessed with buying houses, financial freedom and all this stuff is because I have a fear that I'm gonna end up like my parents, working their whole life. And so on the outside looking in, it's like, wow, this guy's driven, he's motivated, you know, and really, I'm like running away from a fear. Right.

The PTSD from that experience is what motivated you behind the scenes. Actually very similar story to my brother. Same deal. When my parents Split up at 21, the banks took our house. My brother was 17. He came home from school one day and the house was boarded up. He had to break into the house to like steal his shit out. And him and my dad lived in a one bedroom apartment for the next two years. And. And my brother, as a result, you know, what you said earlier, it's not about how much money you make, it's what you do with it. I'll just say that my brother, who's been, you know, a minority partner in my clubs, he made, you know, a fraction of what we made. And I won't say how many homes he owns now, but I can tell you my brother owns way more homes than I do. And it's because he went through that. The trauma of coming home and houses locked up and something like that happens to you and you don't realize at the time, but you make an unconscious choice that I am never going to let that happen to me again.

Yeah.

And that starts to. Influences your choices in the background as to where you put your money, you know, how you save and. Yeah. And how you build security in that sense. Right?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the. It's so unconscious. Right, Right. Like we, you know, I've always considered myself an aware person, but the amount of revelations I've had throughout my life, when I start doing the personal growth work, digging into shadow work, you know, whether it's men's circles, retreats, there's always more to be revealed. Every fucking time.

Yeah.

And at this point I'm excited. I'm like, what else is there? You know, Now I feel like I'm a little bit obsessive with trying to uncover more of my trauma or like, you know, why do I behave the way I behave?

And so, yeah, what I want to dig in on is so you are recognizing that, okay, I'm so driven because there's this fear of losing the home, fear of not feeling safe. And was there a specific event or something that happened that had you start to dive into the personal development work or was it just recognizing that you're working 80 hours a week because you have this, you know, unconscious fear that your homes are all going to take it from you?

It's a great question. I think that my fiance, soon to be wife, hopefully, fingers crossed, you guys are married yet.

I thought you did.

February, Nice. In Costa Rica. So I'm almost there. I've been working on her for 10 years. So when I met her when I was 25, I was, we didn't even dive into this, but I was also so, you know, sun life by day, real estate investor, you know, by evening and then nighttime it was head of security at a nightclub. And so Thursday, Friday, Saturday, I was at the nightclub all night, you know, skimming the line, Toronto style, bottle service. Just living in the underworld, which I know we share, share some experience in. It's a dark place. And when I met her, I think we talked about this off camera at the start, but she, she said to me actually recently, she said, do you remember what your goal was when I first met you? And I was 25 when she met me, I'm 35 now. I said, no, I don't remember. What was it like buying houses, whatever. She's like, no, your goal is to get through one weekend without drinking. And I was like, fuck, that was my goal. And I was failing. She's like, yeah, every weekend you were failing. This was your biggest thing. And you know, now it's like, I don't even, it's not something I even think about. I don't really drink at all. But it's. There was, I think, like looking into. She just really, it felt like she had her shit together spiritually, emotionally. And I was intrigued by that. You know, yes, I was doing good financially, but I also, my ego was getting bigger and bigger. And even though I had houses, I was spending like I had 10 houses, but I only had two. You know, I had a lot of debt racked up in credit card line of credit, highly leveraged, you know, there was no reason why I need to be working a part time job, you know, owning the houses I did, having the tenants, but I was, because I was overspending and she just had her shit together. She'd already paid off her university. I was like, how'd she do that? And honestly, she had taken the time to date herself and get to know herself and she had done a lot of personal growth retreats. And so there was one in particular that she went to called Quarter Life Calling by Colby Kozlowski, who's an incredible human being and it's for people in their 20s. And it was at Kripalu, Massachusetts. And Ariana had done this program prior to me meeting her. And then she was also assisting this program. So every six months she would go away, assist this program, come back, she'd be gone for a week. And I didn't really know where she was going. I, like, I knew it was like, kripalo, some ashram, whatever. But it was. You know, I'd always ask her, like, what do you guys do there? What is that? And she would say, like, I can't tell you anything. Cause someday you're gonna go. And I remember saying, like, listen, I'm not going. I've never gone a retreat. I'm not gonna go by myself to Massachusetts to some washroom. Like, there's no world in which that happens, so just tell me, right? And it was two years into our relationship that I was just like, what's that place called? And then, you know, she said, kerfali.

Whatever.

I said, okay, send me the website. I'm gonna fucking do this thing. Cause I'm just so curious, right? Like, what is it? Right? And that retreat, for sure, changed my life and my trajectory. You know, I think that the connections that I made with people there were just, like, shocking. And there was multiple exercises and experiences we went through, but there was one in particular that was effectively, everybody stood on the line, and, you know, the question would be, cross the line if you've ever cheated on someone. And then if. If you had, you crossed over to the other side, you looked at everybody else across from you. Just kind of took a moment to acknowledge that, and then you came back and it progressively got more and more intense, right? Like, if you've done this drug, if you've. You know, if you've contemplated suicide, if you've done all these things. And I realized, like, holy shit, I'm carrying a lot of shame around. Like, I did a lot of things in my earliest 20s that I'm not proud of, but that I haven't acknowledged, right? I buried them deep, you know? And so here I am, owning up to all of my shame, taking radical responsibility for who I have been, also realizing that I want to be someone different. Like, I'm not proud of that part of myself. But then also noticing that the people there weren't judging me, they were actually loving on me. Like, they were like, wow, this man's taking ownership. And then they like me even more. And I think that was probably the most powerful thing that happened there was, wow, I can actually, like, own my shit. I don't have to hide it. And people actually respect that as long as the container is set up in such a way that people are choosing curiosity as opposed to judgment. And I think that that was powerful, you know? And then I came home, and then I started taking more ownership. I Started sharing like some of the things that I've done. And you know, I think once I started doing that, then it's like I actually stopped falling into those vices as much too. I stopped doing drugs, I stopped smoking, I stopped drinking. You know, I quit the nightclub. Like, I started surrounding myself with different people. And so I think there was, yeah, there was, that was powerful. And then it was, you know, what's next? What's next? What's next?

Yeah, it's like once you take off lid and you start peeling back the layers, you start to realize, wow, there's this whole other version of me inside here that I've been walk around unaware of for the last 30, 40 years. And once you get a taste and you start to discover who this other person is, you're like, I want to get to know him better. Right. So after doing this retreat where you, where you, you know, got to peel back the layers, what then how did that impact what you were doing with real estate and what you saw for your future moving forward? Because when I met you in Costa Rica, you guys were down there for a few months. I think it was like during COVID you guys had come down to just like take a break from being communist Canada during that time. And I remember you saying that you, you had some ideas as to, you know, a concept or something you wanted to work on. So. Yeah, can you share a little bit about how, you know, that came to fruition?

When I was 29, 30 ish after I had made the jump from corporate world to real estate and you know, that lit up and it was on fire. It was two or three years into real estate that we had the opportunity to invest in and be part owners in a gym that was yoga, boxing and spin called Hustle and Flow Waterloo with a couple friends of ours. And so Arian and I were two fifths of that equation. And we did that for two years. And that really got me fired up as an entrepreneur. You know, I went to school for business at laurier in my mid-20s. Some life paid for it. And so I was always really into business. But that was the first opportunity that came our way of like, ooh, like, you know, Ariana was just going to be involved from a yoga perspective, but me, you know, with my real estate mind, I always want to own everything. So I was like, do you need investors? And next thing you know, we were, we were part owners of the, of this fitness studio. And for two years it was crushing it. We were killing it. You know, it was bringing me A lot of fulfillment, feeling into the community of it, you know, making the decisions, really trying to foster that environment of growth. And then Covid happened. Covid was the greatest gift, the greatest pause that I ever could ask for. And you know, obviously now I can see it that way. During it I was like, well, there's parts that were exciting. But so that stopped the fitness industry hardcore now for real estate, you know, we were still deemed essential. So, you know, I didn't go insane at home. I was still be able to go out in showings, but people were buying houses sight unseen. You know, you could do a zoom walkthrough of the house. Like it was nuts. But we, it was a couple lockdowns in that we went away to Costa Rica and it was supposed to be, I think it was a one week or two week trip. And it was the. I think, I think it was the first time I was in Costa Rica, maybe the second, but it was supposed to be one or two weeks. And we ended up staying three months. And you know, it was cold back here. It was locked down. And the more time we spent there, the more and more we realized that we just weren't happy. I was like, okay, we got this fitness studio, we're doing all the things, you know, now I got this new title, right? Co owner. My ego's growing. It was almost like I was the nightclub guy again, but now for fitness, right? And I was just, I was kind of tracking it on to myself that like, I'm starting to feel larger than life, you know, I could feel the ego growing, you know, I'm the successful realtor. So it was like there was a bit of a getting honest with myself of like, what, what am I doing here now? I've got money and I've got status. What am I actually doing? I think also we just realized that, you know, there was, you know, we didn't. We had different philosophies with some of our business partners, right? Not good or bad, just different views. And so, you know, we started toying with the question of like, if we were to do it myself, my fiance, if we were to do this again and we were just to create a community from scratch, what would be the pillars that we would create from? What would it feel like when people showed up, right? What would we offer there? Would it be like, what would we do with the mind, the body and the soul, right? You know, would it be in Kitchener? Would it be in Waterloo? Costa Rica was the first time in my life that I actually realized, hey, man, there's some beautiful places to live in this world. Like, I grew up in Kitchener. I had never considered leaving. I was so tied to my rental properties. You know, once you've got a successful real estate practice, it's like, it's easy. I did no lead gen. My phone just rang and I got to work with people I liked and I knew. So the thought of moving from there was really scary. But being in Costa Rica, being in the jungle, nature, mountains, water, people that are active, you know, people that are really like, looking to connect and have true community. You know, when we met, it's like, I'm at the gym one day and you just come over and you're like, hey man, what's your name? Like, whoa, I'm Dan. You know, like you did, you just approached me and, you know, we chatted for a couple minutes. They're like, oh, you should come to this dinner, right? You invited me to one of your dinners, you know, and we met so many people. We met Patrick there, who's now one of our osteopaths. So it's like that community that we instantly found. We really started questioning, like, why is it that we are feeling more alive here, feeling more into nature, just feeling better, you know, that really made us question, like, you know, is Kitchener the place for us is this business? The place for us is real estate for me, right? I started asking again. It comes back to asking. Covid allowed for a lot of space, right? And obviously it brought a lot of things for a lot of people, but in my opinion, it was a magnifying glass. You know, it gave us more space than we as humans knew what to do with because we were in this fast paced world. And so you either turn to your vices hard during that time because you don't want to face the truth, or you dig in deep. And we did. We started asking powerful questions to ourselves. And what we realized was, you know what, we actually don't want to be in Kitchener anymore. We want to move. We want a change of state, change of scenery. We want to be somewhere where people are active and want to slow down and don't want to just be in and out for the workout. You know, they want to like, slow down, they want to connect and people that are being honest with themselves, asking deep questions. And honestly, Aaron and I just wanted to create something together, you know, where like, if we were going to create a community from scratch and really lead from our place and these key pillars, like, what would it look like? And so, as you know, after three Months in Costa Rica. At that time, you're technically supposed to leave the country, come back after 90 days. So we were gonna come back. We actually, we didn't end up doing that, but we went to New Mexico on a total whim. One of our friends out of Austin, Texas was like, you know, you guys are asking a lot of questions, you're doing a lot of work. You guys should go see this woman Wind Eagle in the desert of New Mexico. She has like hundreds of acres of land in the middle of the desert, like so off the grid. She only works with people, either one on one or couples. You go and stay with her for a week and it'll change your life. We had very little information and we were like, fuck it, why not? You know, in my experience, the more experiences that I can throw myself into for the sake of what's on the other side is powerful. Like, why not, right? And so we did that and spent a lot of time alone journaling in the desert, learning all these different, different things. But ultimately the, the idea of Everlove, we weren't calling it that at the time. I think it was, I think we were calling it the Growth Collective. I'm glad we, I'm glad we landed with Everlove. Yeah, no, yeah, there was, there was some, there was some bad names before we got to Everlove. Credit to Ariana, she came up with Everlove. And yeah, that's, that's where it was manifested. We, we, we, we mapped it out and it was, you know, I, I think I want to rewind slightly because there's something powerful that I think is important for people to think about. When I was thinking about that decision of do I stay with 100k a year at this corporate job or do I jump to selling homes and making 50k a year? So often in life when we're comparing do I stay or do I go or do I go path A or path B, we really devalue one of the paths or both of the paths. And so a process that we learned in the desert there, that we lead in retreats now and I really encourage people to do is build out two really high dreams for yourself. If I stay in this corporate environment, what's the best, best, best case scenario? You know, I'm gonna climb the ranks, I'm gonna be happy, I'm gonna bring wellness in here, I'm gonna do all these things like, how can I actually make that the best, best case scenario? And if I go with pathway B, don't look and say I'm gonna make 50k a year, blah, blah, blah. Say I'm gonna make a million dollars and I'm gonna have work, life balance and I'm gonna be in the best shape of my life, right? And so, you know, that's what we did there. We built out a best case scenario. If we stay in Kitchener, we stay with our business partners, we stay this course, here's what it looks like. And if we move places and we create this new wellness place, what's that going to look like? Because then from that place we can look at both and then make a proper decision. Because no matter which way you go, you should try to show up fully to it, right? You don't want to just settle in whichever option you choose, right? You want to go all in. And so when we came back, we knew we were like, okay, we're going to spend a year, we're going to find the place, we're going to go, you know, spend some time in Austin, Texas and Colorado, Costa Rica, B.C. we had all these things. Collingwood was not even on the list. It was a total whim. A couple months later that Ariana said, hey, you want to go up there for a week? I said, sure. We came up. Being a Realtor, I'm messing around on Realtor Ca. I find this really cool building and I'm like, whoa, look at this.

Cool.

Like 1880s in the core, you know, And I'm scrolling through it, you know, 300 days on market because there's, it's lockdowns, whatever. And I see that it has a hot yoga studio in it. I'm like, whoa, this was a studio for like 13 years. It's like, well, this is cool. Let's just go look at it just for fun, right? We'll just go walk through it for fun. Walk through it. Fell in love, you know, Next thing you know, we're asking the universe all these questions like, okay, if it's meant to be, show us stars, right? That's what we said, show us stars. That night we're at home binge watching Survivor as we did a lot during the pandemic, and they go to name their tribe and they name their tribe some crazy name in a different language which translates to stars. And all of a sudden there's this montage of stars on the screen and we're like, we've never seen this before. We watch a lot of seasons of Survivor. They've never named their tribe stars and there's never been a montage of stars. So it was like little Shit like that started happening. That was like, okay, we're on the right path, survivor. So, you know, can we get the building? I don't know. It's a commercial building. I've never done commercial financing. We own all these rental properties, but one thing led to another, we get approved for it, next thing you know, we're selling off our rental properties. Income producing assets that are keeping us safe, we're selling those off to buy a commercial building, which we've never done in a town two hours away where we know nobody, not a single person we knew up here. And I'm gonna end all of our income in my real estate. We're gonna jeopardize that by me relocating two hours away. So it was a big leap of faith, it was a huge risk. But we had taken the time to get clear on what was our high dream and that was it.

Right?

And when I thought about that high dream, it just got me so much more excited than the life I was currently living. So by the building, one thing leads to another. It was two weeks after, well, one week after we bought the building, I proposed to her up here in hiking up here, and it was beautiful. Two weeks after we waived our condition on the building, we found out she was pregnant. And so Everlove was supposed to be our baby. That's the baby we were growing, not a real one. Our daughter, Atlantis came into the world. She's incredible. She inspires me in so many ways. And you know, she was perfect timing for me to dive more and more into the men's work because I all of a sudden became a father. But I'll pause there to take a sip of my, my coffee if you wish.

Beautiful name, Atlantis. That's really pretty. I don't think I've ever heard of anybody named Atlantis. So. Yeah. And you know, the men's work is really. First off, thank you for sharing all about your past and you know, going into such detail, it is definitely a very inspiring story and I love how you just really both you, Ariana, were willing to forego security and safety to follow that high dream and to follow your heart and listen to your intuition takes a lot of courage and clearly it's paid off. So good for you. And you know, one of the reasons why I want sit down, have this conversation is because you as well facilitate men's groups and men's circles. And I feel this is something that is really misunderstood because for men who aren't in the work and you hear about a men's circle, the mind can Go many places. And often I find men who are alpha driven, very masculine, are first off resistant to open up and sharing. And the idea of sitting down, the group of men that you don't know to talk about your pain, your challenges, what you're dealing with is really freaking scary and intimidating. And men's work is so needed right now. And what you're doing with your men's circles, with creating a safe space, like everlove and even, you know, the. I. I know you do men's group, like, night out with the dinners and all that, kind of similar to what I do, but with a different flavor, is providing that outlet, providing a safe space for men to come together and open up and share. So, you know, I would love for you just to explain a little bit about, you know, for someone listening or watching, who has no idea what a men's circle is, you know, what. What would someone expect to experience? And what is really the intention of, like, a men's circle?

Mm, great question. Yeah, I mean, even as you talk about some of those things, I'm like, that run the other way. Like, even me as someone, I'm just like, no way. But it's. It's, you know, so many of us are lone wolves. Absolutely. Me, period. Right? Like, I, you know, I still struggle with this. I still feel like I'm alone on my journey. I'm a lone wolf. You know, I can be introverted. I have lots of friends or acquaintances, but I don't have a lot of, like, really close, intimate relationships. And that's, like, intentional. Over the years, like, I'm focused on my own thing. And so, yeah, I think, you know, there's so many different medicines, if you will, that men can experience in the men's circle. And I feel like from what I've seen now, leading them for the last two, two and a half years is you get whatever you need from it. And so, you know, sometimes men come to the circle, they're just like, you know what? I have no friends. Like, I feel like I'm a black sheep. I'm unique. You know, I'm looking for friendship. Other guys come to the circle because they're like, you know what? I thought I had it all together and my life just blew up. I'm in the middle of a divorce. I've realized I'm an alcoholic, I lost my job, whatever. Like, I need help, right? Other men don't even know why they come. They're just like, hey, this looks cool. Like, you know, a bunch of guys sitting in a Circle. Like, I'm kind of uncomfortable with this. I don't know why. So I'm going to throw myself into the experiment for the sake of why not, right? So everybody comes for different reasons and they get what they need. But I think, like, actually I said this in a guided visualization the other day, and it was kind of a cool analogy, but it's like every single one of us men are out in this. The world is a jungle, right? There's like 8 billion people doing their own thing. It's a jungle, right? And everybody's out there with their machete just bushwhacking their way through life, figuring shit out. And it's like, you know, we're, we're, we're on alert all the time, right? Like, who's coming to take my stuff? Who's, you know, who's going to attack me, you know, you know, even on social, right? Like, who's going to say something about me? Like, we're on alert constantly, right? And that's our hardware. It makes sense. But if you had a safe place where you could go to once a week, and you're cutting through the jungle and all of a sudden you arrive at this nice campfire and seven or eight other men emerge at the same time with their machetes. We walk up, we all put the machetes down on the sand beside us, we sit in a circle, we all exhale, we let our guards down, and we're like, oh, how's the jungle doing for you, man? Fuck, it's hard out there. What about you? You know what? I've had some ups, I've had some downs, but, like, there's something really intimate about pow wowing for a second and taking a break from the jungle. And the most powerful thing that I think happens is we realize that we're not special. It's like, I think I'm so. I still think I'm so unique and I'm not, man.

And you think you're the only one struggling with the problems that you're going through?

We, we all think we're unique and we're just not. And when you sit in a circle and you ask a question like, how are you truly doing? And everybody takes three minutes to answer. It's just like on repeat.

Yeah, right.

And whether the question is, what are you struggling with? What are you celebrating about yourself? You know, how are you truly feeling? Right? What goals do you have? It's like, it's like a yak back going around, you know, everybody's just saying, the same thing over and over again. And it's like, whoa. Like, I'm not alone. And that in itself is so potent because it allows us to go back out into the jungle knowing that we're not alone, right? And then we start seeing people differently. You know, you're walking down the street or you're in the grocery store, and every man you walk past that, otherwise you would. You would just. In your brain, there's this unconscious saying, like, I have nothing in common with that person. I don't look like him. I don't know him. I can't trust him. Whatever. It's like all of a sudden, you start seeing people, and you're like, whoa. Behind those eyes is a story. And it's a story that I can relate to. Just like me. And that creates a different feeling in your life. It creates the connectedness, which is, you know, and if we go back to any tribe on any continent, they sat in circle, right? You know, the men would. The men would band together, they'd go out, they'd hunt together. They weren't hunting alone, right? They'd hunt together. They wouldn't go out as an army and try to fight off an invading clan alone. They go together, right? And then they come back and they provide, right? And so many men, I think in today's world now with the government, with all these safety nets up, like, you know, in some ways it's like, what's. What are. What's our purpose? Like, I think about, you know, why. Why I used to do so many drugs, or why I would drink, why I would party, why I would play video games, right? Pornography. Like, what am I? I have no purpose, right? It doesn't seem like the world needs me anymore, right? I don't need to provide food for anybody. I don't need to fight off any invading clans, right? Like, what am I here for? And the truth couldn't be further from that. It's like, the world does need me. The world needs strong men protecting their community and their loved ones. But not with spear and shield. You know, Like, I'm. I'm. I have Greek descent. I'm really big on Spartan archetype, and I love the idea of the spear and shield, but it's like, what if my spear and shield was actually just my heart and my ability to listen and connect, right? And so, you know, how do we. How do we fight a war with our. With our words and our. And our minds and our hearts and our souls? And, like, that's. That's what I Try to bring into.

The men's circles to hear, you know, how it is that you, you share this work. And it's, as you said, it can be intimidating for men who have never been in such an environment because they didn't have that with their fathers. You know, even one on one with their dads or their brothers, they've never been able to open up and share. And you know, it's one of those things that you only need to experience it once to feel the magic of having the space and permission to share. And you know, it's, it's something that thankfully is gaining popularity. You know, like more men are now being open to it. And thankfully, you know, it's, it's something that more, I would say even corporations are starting to realize, like there's a real men's mental health problem and there are different initiatives that are supporting that now. For men who are interested in being a part of a men's group circle or even connecting with brotherhood, what suggestions would you have for someone who wanted to begin doing this work, wanted to support, but just wouldn't even know where to start?

Yeah, I think you're bang on. I think it's, it's hard to know if it's just like my sphere, but I. Right. Because now I'm in it, but it does feel like a movement. You know, I think the, the men's circle near me, it's got to bring up some searches on Google now, I would think.

Is that a website? Oh, you mean like Google search?

It could be. We can start that business out today as long as we talk to it before mencircle.com but yeah, men circle. Yeah, I mean there's, there's so many, you know, there's so many online groups you can join like tons of. I really wanted the in person up here like this, this is a town of like 30, 40,000 people. And we have five circles weekly. So 50 men sitting in circle in person every single week. And like the circles are at Monday 10am, Monday 11:30, Tuesday at 10am like they're at times when you would not expect men would be able to gather and, and yet they're prioritizing it because, you know, like some of the, I mean, you talk about men's mental health, 2200 people every single day die of suicide. 2275% of that's men.

Wow. Is that in Canada or globally?

Globally.

Wow.

In Canada, I think it's eight men every day.

Holy crap.

Which is when someone told me that stat. I was just like, that can't be. Right? Eight men a day and 2200 a day globally. Right? So the 2200 is men and women. But my point is that 75% men. Like, why is that so? There's obviously a million factors, but why do men dominate in dying of suicide, domestic abuse, prison, alcoholism, drugs. Every single category across the board is dominated by men. With the exception of breast cancer, I think that's the only one that women have us beat on. And. And so it's like, I started asking the question a couple years. Like, why is that? And my main theory is that we don't talk absolutely. You know, like the. If we're. Whether it was culturally pushed on us, whether it was our upbringings, whether it's, you know, physiologically we have different chemical. I don't know, right? Maybe a combination. But if a man has a problem, and there's always exceptions to the rule, but most men will not talk about it. I gotta figure this out myself. Cause if I ask for help now, I'm weak, right? I need to be the alpha. I need to figure it out. And, you know, if I compare that to, you know, my fiance and other women I've been in, if they have a problem, they typically call their friends. They talk it out, like, real quick, or they're letting me know, like, I know pretty quick when something's up, right? Whereas she has to guess. She's like, is there something up with him? Right? And so if we do that for 20, 30, 40 years, don't ask for help. Lone wolf it. Try to figure it out, believe that we're alone in whatever we're going through. There will come a day where we just break. And then you get to insert, right? Prison, alcohol, drugs, suicide. Pick your vice. But we're carrying the world on our shoulders. We don't ask for help. We think we're alone. And then we break. So that was one of the big drivers for me to start doing men's circles, was me also wanting to connect with other men and not be alone in my journey of exploring my shadows. Or, like, celebrating. You know, we talk about, like, doing the shadow work. And it's like, you know, some men think. Some guys come to the circle thinking, ah, we're gonna sit around and talk about our feelings, right? Like, fuck. And we do that because that's a good practice. But sometimes you show up to the circle, and I'm like, hey, today we're gonna go around the circle, and each man is gonna brag about himself for three minutes. He's Gonna be like, I'm awesome because I'm awesome, because over and over again or something I wanna celebrate about myself is. And sometimes I think that's gonna be an easy circle.

Right.

And it actually proves to be a big challenge for men. Right. Like, some guys really struggle to celebrate themselves.

Right.

And so there's so many things we do in the circle, different prompts. Every circle that you join could be completely different.

Right.

Like this, the style that I'm leading is, you know, five minute meditation and ground yourself at the start and then a question prompt, and then it goes around, right? There's. There's different. You know, I bring in some agreements that we make ways of counsel. Like, nothing leaves the circle. It's all confidential. You know, we're listening from the heart, which is choosing curiosity over judgment. We're speaking from the heart, like tapping in. There's no cancel culture, spontaneity, brevity, blah, blah, blah. So every circle is different. But I, I would say just reach out and try one. You won't know.

Yeah. And it takes that courage of being able to say, okay, you know, if I stay exactly where I am, nothing's going to change. And it takes something. It's not an easy place to step into. However, for any of the guys that have joined any of my groups or been part of the circles, these dinners that I host, we have some intentional conversation starters, and they're sitting at the table with a bunch of guys they don't know. And many of them after have said to me, that is one of the most profound experiences I've ever had. And it was just a dinner. But the thing is, having permission to open up and share, being seen and heard without judgment, that is deeply healing. And to your point about, you know, why men are unfortunately 75% of suicides and dying earlier is because the emotions from those experiences that they're holding onto is pushed down. And those are low vibration emotions that are of a low frequency, which will create the cancer, which create disharmony in the body. And that's why men's group circles. And having brotherhood and people to open up and speak to is powerful medicine. And, you know, it's beautiful work that you're doing, and it's amazing that you've created community because like you said before you moved here, you didn't know anyone up here in Collingwood.

And I think now you could be the mayor.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, especially men, that's what they're craving. They're craving brotherhood. You know, I Know, I am as well. You know, I hosted a small group up here this weekend, and, like, that was one of the most fun weekends I've had in the last couple of years because it was just like, guys getting to hang out, be guys barbecuing, talking about life, having fun. You know, men's work doesn't have to be heavy. It doesn't have to be depressing. It can be jokes. It could be outdoor hiking. It could be, you know, like, fun things that light you up. And I think that's one thing that people who aren't in the space don't know is that the inner work doesn't have to be dark and heavy all the time. And even when it is on the other side of it, it's light and it's love and it's inspiring. And it does take something to step into the circle and say, hey, I'm willing to be seen. But it is the most powerful and liberating thing that you can do for yourself. And what does it say? The Joseph Campbell quote, I always messed it up. Like, the gold, the treasure you seek, is in the cave you fear to enter. Right. And that's very much like the men's circles or men's groups in general. Like, what you're looking for, that connection, that healing, that freedom is in the circle. But are you willing to step in?

It's so true. It doesn't. Yeah, I mean, a lot of, you know, I have the benefit of, you know, having a wellness studio. We have a website, whatever. I get men reaching out all the time, curious about the men's circles and usually their questions, like, hey, like, what is this all about? Like, is this. You know, I'm pretty skeptical. Like, I'm in the trades. You know, I don't really do yoga. Like, I'm not a big meditator. Like, I always get, you know, they come in with this stereotype that we talked about this before we started is like, it's going to be Kumbaya. We're going to pair their hands, and guys are like, fuck that. Like, I'm not. I'm not into that. Right. And I always say, like, trust me, there's. There's lots of guys in the trades in the circle. Right? Like, it's. It's. Any man can step into the circle.

Yeah, right.

It's. It's. You know, and I think that's why ours has been so successful and grown so quick, is that I don't. I don't necessarily portray maybe the stereotype that people would think for someone leading circles. Right. You know, they see some of the real estate stuff and they see the business owner and whatever, and so they see things that maybe to them are more relatable.

Yeah.

You know, and then obviously the irony is, as we dig deeper in the circle, we are all relatable. And forget about those titles. What I actually love is we'll be 12 weeks or even like a year into a circle, and someone will say, I don't actually know what any of you guys do for a living.

Right.

And it's like, so amazing when that happens.

Yeah.

And it's a liberating thing to not be labeled right away, to be anonymous.

And be free of that judgment.

Yeah. Right. Because it doesn't, you know, being in a circle with the intention of, like, we're gonna. Everybody here is for. Is for growth. Like, ultimately, you tend to not step into a circle unless you're trying to grow. So some guys might want to just be a better human, you know, better father, better husband, better brother, better son. Right. As long as there is an element of I'm trying to grow. That's the common bond between everybody in the circle.

Yeah.

And like you said, it doesn't have to be dark. Like, sometimes it's fucking hilarious in the circles. Right. Sometimes we, you know, sometimes I try to have a more serious circle. It just doesn't happen. And that's great. Right. Like, that laughter is good, too, because sometimes that's the medicine we need.

Absolutely. Yeah. Sometimes those men haven't laughed in months. Right.

Like, you know, some of us, myself included.

Right.

Like, you know, some days Arianna comes up to me and says, can you stop being so serious? And, you know, I realized, like, yeah, my face is feeling really serious right now. It's been like this for a week. Like, you're right. Like, let's do something fun. Right. And it's starting to play with those different versions of yourself that we're missing out on. Right. Because this. This world can grip you.

Right.

All the responsibilities we have.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing. Men are under a lot of pressure and we gotta stay strong. We can't talk about it. Can't complain. Can't be a pussy. Right.

Yeah. Don't cry.

And. Well, you know, one thing I want to mention, because I think it's important for men to know if they are considering joining a men's circle. It is not mandatory that you actually speak. You can go to a men's circle, sit there quiet and just listen. And even in just listening, you'll have a profound experience because you'll realize, as you said earlier, you're not special. Your problems are not unique to yourself. And in every single person sharing, you'll hear something that resonates within you. And it's funny, but often the ones who are scared to share end up being the ones who don't end up. Who don't stop talking. You know, they're so excited to finally let it all out. You know, it's. It's beautiful work. It's deeply rewarding, as you know. And, you know, I'm grateful that, you know, you have created a place like this in Collingwood. And, you know, I'm excited for some of the other stuff that you got going on as you continue to dive deeper in your own journey and spread this magic. You know, it's been. It's been beautiful to witness your evolution, you know, from hanging out in USADA to being here in Collingwood to becoming a dad, and now, you know, with Everlove. And, you know, I hope more places like Everlove open, because it's. It's what we need right now. You know, it's beautiful to see that Toronto or Collingwood or wherever, you know, Austin and many other cities are embracing these types of spaces because these are the, like, the healing type facilities that. That we need for people to feel safe, to open up and just go within.

It's so true. It's so true. The. The. The pillars that we founded on were village, you know, or community. Right. Like, what if this were a village? What would it look like? How would we make decisions? Right. And the other one was inspire. Like, how do we constantly inspire ourselves and inspire others? Yeah, because ultimately there's. There's 8 billion people on the planet. Everybody has gifts unique to them, and the world is like, whatever this experience is, this 3D experience we're having, it's a giant canvas, right? And every single one of us has gifts to offer it. You know, paintbrushes. And we all get to create this canvas together. So the more we can help people step into, what are their gifts? What are they going to contribute? I think the more beautiful this. This picture can be.

Absolutely. So, yeah, well said and perfect way to wrap this up, you know, for everybody watching or listening. If you'd like to learn more about Dan and Everlove, you can check the show notes down below. But for people who are curious to find you or to learn more about what you do or is there anything, you know, special or unique that you'd like to share with the viewers or listeners Just kind of wrap this up with what you do and what you offer.

Yeah. I just think ask yourself powerful questions and, you know, know that you can't. We can't do it alone, period. If we're sitting in a circle, it's. It's like you're sitting in a circle with eight mirrors aimed back at you. And every person that shares is, like you said, they're. They're holding. There's something relatable in everybody's share. And sometimes the power is in listening, period. Sometimes the power is in sharing, and sometimes the power is in asking a question or being asked a question from a curious, loving place. So I think find your people. Find your people, whatever that looks like. And when you find your people, you'll start to find your purpose. And this 3D experience that we're in will be a lot more fulfilling if you take the time to get clear on that.

Amen. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you, Dan, for joining me. It's been a pleasure dropping in and getting a chance to, you know, learn about you and. And how Everlove came to be. And I look forward to joining your circle or, you know, doing some breath work sessions with you and the guys over there sometime in the near future. And, yeah, just want to say thank you for the work that you're doing on behalf of all the men and women out there and the children. You know, it's. It's powerful work you're doing, so thank you, man.

Thanks, brother.

You, too.

Appreciate it.

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Sam.