100% Dad Episode 9 interviews with dads. Jacob Tilton

All right, 100% Dad Interviews with Dad, episode number 9 with Jacob Tilton. How are you?

I'm doing good. How are you, man?

Loving life. So this took me, what, an hour to set up? So we're in, we're in Florence Marina, Georgia, which is right on the river with Alabama. And so not only does like there's a time zone change, so not only do we not know what time it is where we are because like We just drove up to Columbus, Georgia, which is like 45 minutes north to find good T-Mobile signal so we could do this. Um, and like, you have to weave in and out of Georgia and Alabama, which is then switching all the clocks. And we just— we had no idea what time zone we were in, which was less than fun. So we finally get up Columbus, Georgia. Uh, my T-Mobile data was maxed out, so I couldn't— you have to host these things on a laptop, so Uh, my, my hotspot on my phone couldn't power my laptop for internet. So then we finally found a coffee shop that would, uh, we just bought like $40 worth of stuff from breakfast sandwiches and everything, and I just sent the kids and Ryan away. And an hour just to find internet, that's driving me crazy. But we didn't even have phone card, like I couldn't even text you or, uh, call you and let you know that we were having issues. It was bizarre.

I've been there.

T-Mobile is not friendly in these areas, but people with Verizon had plenty of signal. But so that was less than fun, but we're here now. Have you ever been to Columbus, Georgia?

I'm not— I haven't spent time on the western side of Georgia. Most of my time either in the middle or on the East Coast.

Well, you can see it now. So I'm also at a coffee shop. We'll plug them— Iron Bank, if you ever if you're ever up here. You don't drink coffee, I know that.

Not a coffee guy.

Uh, we're right below a speaker, so you're gonna hear music the whole time, maybe a few commercials, but I think we'll be all right. So let's introduce you. Uh, why don't you tell everyone a little bit about you, who you are, all that kind of fun stuff?

Yeah, so, uh, my name is Jacob Tilton. Uh, I have been married, uh, for about 18 years. We got 3 kids. I got a boy 15, a boy 12, a little girl who's 5. Uh, I grew up in rural Florida, just outside of, uh, Palatka, a little town called San Mateo.

How many acres is that?

Uh, about 2,600.

Okay.

Mostly, uh, timber, uh, cattle, and a few other crops.

What is a row crop?

Yeah, anything that you grow in a row. Uh, okra, onion, uh, we, uh, grew artichokes for the first time this year.

Okay, how come you guys never got into potatoes? Because I know that area of the county or the country is heavy in potatoes.

Correct. And that was one of the reasons why is because there's, you know, there's a already a large market around here, um, of producers. Plus it was not something that we were technically set up for. I mean, producing honey and pollination.

Okay, got it. I remember that because you guys used to travel around all around the country toting your, your bees with you.

Yeah. Yep.

Are they still doing that?

Um, yeah, so we're not necessarily We quit going to Wisconsin. We went there for 23 years straight, Wisconsin to Paul and the Cranberries. But they, um, my brothers and my dad still have a few bees now. At our biggest, we were running about 4,800 hives of bees, which is a lot. Um, but they don't run nearly that anymore.

Okay, so now why would you go all the way to Wisconsin? I would think Wisconsin would have their own bees.

Yeah, but the, the thing is, um, a lot of the guys in up north in Wisconsin strictly produce honey. They don't do much pollination. And so the cranberry growers— it's like almonds in California.

I thought you needed those. I thought in order to get honey you needed pollination.

Well, yeah, but, um, here in Florida our seasons are very restricted. What I mean by that is The orange blossoms will bloom for, you know, a month and then that's it. Dead, gone. And you've got to move your bees somewhere else unless you have just this perfect gem of a location that's always got something blooming. We're constantly having to move our bees around to find food sources. If not, we got to supplement that, which costs us money. And so one of the things we would do is go north to Wisconsin pollinate cranberries and then just stay there for another month and a half making what we call wildflower. I mean, you have alfalfa, thistle, clover, just a bunch of things that bloom wild. And because, you know, Wisconsin's predominantly cold, come May and June when things start blooming, pretty much there's something blooming everywhere until the snow sets in around Thanksgiving. Okay.

So would you guys like go drop, drop your hives and then go back to it?

Yeah, so basically you drop them off in the, uh, in the groves and then come back home. And when they're done, when the pollination period's over, they'll call you and say, hey, we're going to spray for bugs now, we need you to come get your bees because if you don't, they'll kill your bees and then move them to, uh, nearby locations in southern Wisconsin. Just on farms, just local, you know, farmers that just have a little area that they allow us to put them.

And do they pay for that, or is that something, uh, you just get the honey result?

Yeah, so one of the things we do is we oftentimes would pay rent through honey. A lot of people are like, hey, I really like honey, how can I get some? It's like, hey, do you have any locations that we could potentially put some bees on? And most farmers like, heck yeah, I you know, and in return we would give them about a gallon of honey each year. And it was, you know, it was beneficial, uh, you know.

I'm sure that's a long drive, it better be beneficial.

Yeah, we quit doing it because we found it was harder and harder to make honey. It was just for the pollination, which is, which is nice, but pollination also puts a stress on the bees. The move will stress them. Oftentimes there's residual pesticides on the plants themselves, so when the bee comes back to the hive, they're bringing some of that with it. In the '90s, there was a government program where the government would pay you not to grow anything. You just had to leave your field alone, and by doing that, you had wildflowers everywhere. But when ethanol became a thing, people started plowing that ground up, planting corn, because they could make a ton of money off ethanol. So less and less wildflowers, which means less and less honey.

And I, uh, I think you and I briefly talked to this before, that honeybees are actually starting to go extinct.

Yeah, so they're struggling, um, in today's, uh, environment through diseases that are brought on by you know, varroa mites. You have hive beetle, which was introduced about 7, 8 years ago. And with the, you know, like you said, we've talked about this, but with the varroa mite, it brings with it multiple diseases that constantly bees are having to fight off. And so it's gotten a lot more expensive to do it. I mean, used to, you could go into your beehive, make sure everything's okay, treat it with whatever things— whatever you need to treat it, feed it, and then walk away and not have to tend it again for, you know, months. Now you could go into a hive, it could be perfectly healthy, slap full of bees, come back a week later and it's down to just a small cluster, and then a few days later, dead. And that's the problem. What's causing it? Well, and they still are not 100% sure, and a lot of people believe it's a mixture of a lot of things. The disease from the Varroa mite, um, the small hive beetle, uh, maybe it's even bad genetics. I mean, we're, we're kind of barred from bringing any other bees in from other countries. Now we can bring honey, but we can't bring actual bees. And so I don't know, man. I mean, I know, um, most of this— it's very rare to find a wild hive in the woods. Mostly what people find are swarms from commercial guys like us. Okay, swarmed out of the hive into a tree or into a house. That's not some wild hive that's been there for 50 years. Uh, disease is killed almost all of those off.

So there's no real natural honeybees anymore? They've genetically been engineered?

For the most part, not engineered. It's just, you know, just in any, any industry, any, uh, like cattle industry or anything, you're gonna pick the best.

You're gonna breed what works.

So like, for a time we were growing our own queens, which is quite difficult. And intense. And in order to breed queens, you got to find whichever ones you want to breed from, right? So what we do is we go through, uh, an entire year honey cycle, and we would mark those that produce the most. And if they were consistent through all of the honey, whether it was the orange blossom, local wildflower, the cranberry and wildflower up north, Um, if one, one or two remain consistent, those were the ones that we would breed from because we want to— that type of, uh, you know, that type of bee.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

So I— so like, if I ever bike around town, um, you know, St. Augustine, I would always see like, not every house, but there were a bunch of houses where you'd see like a small box. You can tell it's a honeybee hive because you'd see some bees flying around it. So is that a good thing?

Yeah, very good. The only problem we have now here in Florida is a couple years ago we had Africanized bees finally introduced here. For the most part, Africanized bees have been, um, what do you mean with that?

When you say introduced, what do you mean?

So what, what happened was is Africanized bees have been in South Central America. They come up through Texas and sort of went west towards Arizona, New Mexico. What happened was, um, I know after talking with several people from, um, IPHIS, from the, the state who work with bees, we had basically, uh, big transport ships coming to and from, um Central South America bringing in produce. Well, these had— an Africanized hive had swarmed off the mainland on the ship and then landed here in around Tampa and then swarmed off. They had actual like traps set for them to catch them. And, and, uh, I'm surprised that didn't happen sooner.

I mean, we have so many ships coming in from—

and I agree with you. I'm like, I'm like, it took that long? He goes, yeah, because they had set these traps to sort of catch them. And, uh, and they've managed to curtail it, but now they're here and it's something we've got to deal with. Like, Texas has had them for over 20 years, and what they did is if they found an Africanized hive, they would isolate it and try to breed it with a more docile bee.

Oh, okay.

So you take— again, just like with queens, you, you you kill the Africanized queen and put a more docile one in there, or try to get them to breed with more docile. So you basically intermix them to try to calm that anger down, I guess you could say.

And that—

there's, there's not a real difference visibly to the human eye between an Africanized bee and a normal one.

It's their behavior, right?

Correct. If you put them under a microscope, an Africanized bee is slightly smaller, but for the most part, me and you driving around can't tell. A lot of people are like, oh, they're Africanized, I got stung once. I'm like, no, if you get near an Africanized hive, you're gonna get hundreds or thousands of times— I mean, get in a truck or get in a house. That's the only way.

They made a movie, I think, about that in the '90s, about some bees that were just— yes, the movie might have been called Killer Bees or something like that, maybe.

Yeah, it was, but no, I mean, it's a great thing that you have a lot of hobbyists getting involved because like you said, you don't have those wild hives anymore. So anybody who's trying to grow an outdoor garden and they're trying to grow plants like maybe squash, cucumbers, and things that need pollination, that need bees to cross-pollinate, you know, those, those hobbyists are helping you with your, your local garden and things like that. Okay, that's a great thing.

All right, we got completely sidetracked on bees. This is not a bee thing. That's my fault, I'm the one, I'm the one asking the questions. And again, apologizing for the leaf blower, the delivery truck, the music. So growing up on what, 3,000 acres, honeybee farmer, another farmer, you had 10 siblings, right?

10, yeah, there were 8 boys and 2 girls.

Uh, so, so a lot of people talk about growing up with, uh, or, you know, adults as us, they don't want to have too many kids because because they feel like they're gonna not be able to give the amount of love and attention to that many children. They get spread too thin. A lot of people want the one kid, two kids. Yeah, because that many is too much. So I, I don't know, what number were you in, in that 10?

3.

You were number 3. So, well, you're only younger. Do any of your siblings, like, as they got, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10, did they ever feel like they were less paid attention to or less loved somehow? Or I'm just curious what it came from, from someone who came from siblings of 10 and had parents that had 10 kids. Does it really get dispersed like that? Does your attention really get divided that much, or are you still able to parent evenly?

No, it gets divided. I mean, without, without the grandparents, uh, you know, my mom would have went nuts because oftentimes, you know, being a mom, you got to pay attention to the one that's least capable of taking care of themselves. So whenever a new baby would come along, the older ones oftentimes have to— I would say fend for themselves, but take on a little bit more responsibility. Um, and the cool thing about growing up on a farm is, um, when things start getting wild, Mom would basically kick us out and say, leave, and come back.

You could roam everywhere.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I beat up many pine tree in my day and terrified many, um, I'm sure animals as I ran through the woods howling like a howler monkey. Uh, but yeah, I mean, you know, like you said, I, I walked all over that place. Uh, just, I mean, built forts, lost dad's tools, um, you know, that type of stuff. But yeah, it's so— it's very interesting Um, like I said, it seemed to me that, you know, as more and more kids came, mom's attention became focused. But growing up on a farm, we often— we oftentimes joke that dad had 10 kids because he was too cheap to pay for any labor to come in. And so if you got old enough to do something, you can work. Like, the first time I went to Wisconsin, I was 10 years old. My oldest brother was 8, and we would go up there and we would, we would, uh, smoke the beehives, and we'd be out with dad. And, uh, to some of my fondest, you know, because my dad worked so much, um, trying to put food on the table, uh, and so he was oftentimes gone with the honeybees, constantly moving them the way you have to do. So one of the, some of the few times I really got to spend quality time with my dad was when we were moving honeybees, driving down the road, um, you know, getting to ask him questions. And just get to know him because for a good portion when I was a kid, he was gone. You know, he'd come home in the evening.

So with that many kids, I mean, how did you even travel? So the audio at this point's unbearable. Let me summarize Jacob's answer to their transport. Their parents basically bought a 16-passenger old church bus, uh, no AC, hot as heck. They took out one of the seats for cargo, things like that, and that's what they made work. But for the most part, you know, if they were going into town, they really didn't take all the kids, you know. You know, people would stay behind with grandparents or stay behind at the, the 2,600 acres and play. So, you know, Jacob kind of went on and said how excited he was every time he went into town, which this was a very small town to start with. But anyway, the audio was too bad to let just play, so a quick summary, and here we're going to get back to it. So did all your family live on the same property? Like, your grandparents live on that 3,000 acres as well?

So my dad's parents, and like, this is my grandfather on my dad's side who, who, uh, who owned the property, yeah, they live across the field from us. Then right up the road, um, eventually my mother's parents, um, bought a house. And so we had both sets. And so oftentimes, uh, you know, we would— I spent most of my time over at, um, my dad's parents who owned the farm, um, with Granny and Papa. So, you know, as a kid, they became almost second parents, um, in a sense. Oftentimes, like, if there was a kid who was sick, he would go to Granny. Because I mean, that kid to get everybody else to get them running within the sickness, and then when we're better, so if you get Corona, you go to Grandma's. Not anymore, she's, uh, but, uh, but yeah, that's sort of how it was.

So Mom was at home on 3,000 acres, often alone with 10 kids.

Yep.

I, I guess at the end, you know, I guess there were phases of there were 3 kids and 4 kids and 5 kids.

Interesting story, uh, the UPS guy comes up one time and, um, knocks on the door to deliver a package and, uh, and Mom answers the door and she goes, do you know you have 3 kids running around naked and a baby calf under your house? She goes, welcome to my world, and shut the door. Because that's— I mean, we, you know, you bottle feed calves when the mother dies and that was that was life, man. And, you know, we grew up pretty poor, uh, as far as, you know, Dad didn't make the greatest living, but, you know, we always had food and shelter and clothes. We just chose not to wear them.

But, uh, so here's a question. So with, with the dad working that much, uh, and actually having to go to Wisconsin, so be far away and not, not coming home late at night or anything, just not being there, uh, was there any resentment within the kids of Dad being gone so much, or is it appreciation for for dad going out and providing, because everything you had was— it was survival in a sense.

My dad was the disciplinarian, like, you know. And so oftentimes my mother would, um, you know, you wait till your dad gets home and he'll deal with this. My dad, after working all day, would have to come home and dish out butt whoopings, you know. I could see just— I remember as a kid seeing the look like, oh my gosh, I got to deal with this. Okay, come on kids, line up. And he literally, he'd line us up. There'd be 4 or 5 of us lean against the couch, go down the line spanking. And, uh, so when I was really young, I remember being afraid of my dad coming home because, you know, with 10 kids, you're always getting into trouble. And so oftentimes I had a butt whooping waiting for when he'd come home. Now, when I started working with him again, you know, 10, 11, 12 years old, then I began to appreciate more what he was doing, what it took for him to put food on the table because I got to see that. And eventually, you know, a lot of kids when they got off of school for the summer were like, yay, summer! I was like, yeah, I was going to the top. It was work, you know, we're baling hay and it's hot as hell. And that was, that was the farm life. And I grew to respect my dad more as I got older and again got to in more time.

I was just about to ask that. So like, as you became a dad, did you start to kind of reflect on what he was going through?

Oh yeah, yeah. And even my mother, you know, who, who, you know, like I said, she'd oftentimes, you know, go play. Well, you know, I want to stay in the house, I want to watch TV. No, get, get out, go play. You know, I'm like, man, you know, Mom doesn't want me around. Mom doesn't— you know, as you get older and you become a parent, you start to see see that, yeah, I get it, right? Even with the 3 I got, sometimes I want to tell them, you know, go play.

Were there ever arguments or, I guess, discussions with your parents of like, stop doing honeybees, there's farmers all over this country that farm at home, like do something here so you're here more often? Or was it just kind of accepted that this is our life, this is what we do?

Yeah, so me, I know we've often, we often joke that especially when we were doing it, that we hated honeybees. A lot of people like, oh, I love honey. You love honey, you work with it, don't you? No, I don't love honey. It tastes fantastic. I just don't love it. I grew to resent it because of just how hard we work with not a whole lot coming back. Um, you know, unless you're, you know, the the perfect beekeeper, you're not going to make, you know, a ton of money doing it, not being 10 kids and working a farm alongside, you know, 3,000-acre farm alongside your dad.

So I'm sure taxes on 3,000 acres are no, uh, no small amount, you know.

And that's one thing— my grandfather passed away, you know, a little bit ago, and we've sort of taken more responsibility over the day-to-day operations, which he handled— my grandfather did— up until physically, you know, um, got Parkinson's and couldn't. He was constantly doing the day-to-day things. So we've had to take on more and more of that responsibility around the farm. So that's been interesting.

So when you say we, you talking your father, are you siblings as a whole?

All of us. So one of the things, you know, oftentimes you see a lot of families who, you know, fight, don't get along, this person doesn't talk with that one. We've been very blessed and fortunate that all 10 of us can sit down and have a really good time. It doesn't mean we always agree. It doesn't mean we don't throw a cuss word or two, uh, from time to time. But we oftentimes will sit down as a family and say, here's where we're at with the farm, here's where we want to be. All right, let's start talking about how we're going to get there.

So that's what every mom and dad wants. They want their, their kids and them to all, you know, 20, 30, 40 years down the line to all be able to come back together. And no one wants a dysfunction that seems so prevalent everywhere. Yeah, what, what caused that? Like, why are you guys— what do you think the advantage was that you're fit with so, so many people where there could have been a lot of friction, there could have been a lot of fights, there could have been a lot of— I'm sure there was disagreements and big things, you know. Uh, I guess what caused you all to stay so tight?

I don't know, man. I know, I know, like We— I've had like two brothers, Jared and Jordan, fought like cats and dogs. When I say fight, I'm talking like full-on bloody nose, fisted. I never got in that because my older brother was huge and I was a beanpole in high school, so if I punch him, I'm dead, right?

Country boys rolling in the mud all the time.

Yeah, I mean, but those two, it was horrible working with them. He always liked me. He was Korean. And but there in high school, something flipped. And again, a lot of it happened when we got older and became, you know, teenagers or adults. Um, we— I don't know, we just—

do you think it was a sheer amount of time you guys had to spend next to each other? Yeah, later down the road.

I mean, we were stuck there together. We had no money. Even if we did go somewhere, we, we really couldn't. Couldn't afford to do anything. Uh, when I was a kid, I, I went to Disney World once, and that was when Mom only had 3 kids. After that, it was too expensive. Like, we could not go out to eat as a family because to feed 12 people, that adds up. Yeah. And, and so, uh, but yeah, we just, just— I guess the sheer amount of time, like you said. Plus, you see this a lot on farms, you see this a lot on in a lot of manual labor jobs, a lot of times people will, you know, you know, I guess poke fun at each other, right? Mock each other, sort of, you know, that sort of thing. But, you know, it's all in fun. And a lot of that release— and me and my brother still do that to this day, whether it's hunting, right? I can't shoot a deer to save my life. I can kill targets all day long. But if a deer comes out in front of me, I'm like Elmer Fudd. And they constantly mock me for that. And I know it's all in fun because I'm going to get my chuckle sometimes later on something else they're going to do that's stupid. And that's something we've always done and we still do it to this day. And I don't know if that plays a role, but I enjoy spending time with my family. It's one of the best things is when we have a family cookout and everybody just shows up and we sit around and we eat. My cousins You know, my kids get to play with their cousins.

So I mean, because that's one of the things I say a lot, is just like, I, I just feel like as a dad, the spending the time with them, even as young when they're kind of boring and just little balls of mush that don't do much, it's like the time there creates a bond that's going to pay off dividends down the line, just because that's what they know. And, you know, the bond's there.

I agree. Uh, and I know with my own kids, I, I oftentimes feel I spend more time breaking up fights and disciplining than actually sitting down and having those connections. And then when I think back with my own situation, my dad, I felt kind of the same way with him, right? It was— he was constantly disciplining me and not necessarily, you know, having those good father-son conversations. So yeah, I'm with you. Anytime you can sit down and generate good time with your kids whether it's driving. I mean, driving in the truck was always one of the best moments for my dad because when we got out of the truck, it was time to work. Um, you know, but most of the trucks we had didn't have radio in them, so there was nothing to do but talk.

Just get old-fashioned trucks.

But today, I, I feel one of the biggest problems is we have so many distractions, not just kids, but me as an adult. I've got my work, you know, in my back pocket with my phone. I carry a computer with me and can, you know, zone out. So for me, I physically have to leave my phone at home or in the truck when I go places with my wife and kids, or else I— it's natural now, you know, just pull that thing out when I have nothing to do.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's a source of information. You can do stuff on it.

Just—

I, I use it now more than ever because we've kind of converted our business to all on the phone. So sometimes even like working on the RV, like my RV is synced to my phone, so sometimes I'm just monitoring tank levels and things like that or turning off lights. And yeah, I just feel like I'm always staring at that thing. It's genuinely part of life. Uh, I've had to sit there and tell the kids, like, that's not playing Candy Crush.

Like, I'm not—

like, I don't even— I've never played any games with my phone. I'm literally just working, answering emails or, or monitoring things just because everything is Everything is tied to it.

Yeah, I have no games on my phone, but my daughter's like, you know, Dad, what are you doing? I'm like, well, you know, I'm answering emails, or I'm answering students with everything being online now and teaching, you know, constantly, you know, 24/7. I got kids sending me emails at midnight, and, you know, my hours are all messed up, so I'm up at midnight answering emails. Um, so yeah, it's, it's Interesting.

So you grew up in a traditional family. Mom kind of took care of the household and everything. And I know what— I think it was your third kid, right, where Dana went back to work, and you really, you did a lot with, uh, your third youngest, right? Or is it your second?

So with, with Kale, um, so I, I, um, I took over sort of the bee business for a time and was running that And like I said, things— the bees were dying constantly, which we already talked about, and we were putting so much money back into the business to try to keep it. We decided to go in a different direction and, uh, and phase out the bees or shrink them down, which we did. And at that time, my wife, um, who had went and got a degree in psychology but couldn't find any work decided to go back to school. And so when she, uh, when she was at school, I was running the bee business and, you know, trying to take care of the kids and, uh, and be a stay-at-home dad. And then when she finished, I was going to school and still, uh, stay at home. Yeah, so it's very interesting.

I had about a a 3-year period where you did a lot with them during the day.

And I know my habits around the house and stuff completely changed that. You know, I, I didn't— I worked all day, you know, you know, roofing or, um, when I come home, I just get out. So cleaning was not something I wanted to do, right? And but being a stay— my philosophy when I was a stay-at-home dad was My wife's gone, and so when she comes home, I want her to not have to worry about cooking. I want her to spend as much time with the kids as possible.

And that's coming from someone who I feel like you're very traditional in your values, and like you're, you know, almost that old school, because that's how you were raised.

That's how I was raised, right? The wife stays home, you know, cooks and cleans, and the husband goes out and works.

So is that something you struggled with? Like, was that a challenge in the beginning, or did you just fully accept and say, hey, you know, this is what we got to do?

No, well, I, I recognize that she, she, and, uh, you know, and then, uh, but yeah, so it, I, I accepted it. That was no biggie for me. I mean, yeah, I grew up in a pretty traditional household, but I consider myself a somewhat progressive guy. You know, going to college. I'm the first in my family to get a 4-year degree, actually graduate college. I've had several siblings after me come along. Yeah, my mom and dad were high school educated.

You paved the road for them.

Yes, take full credit. Yeah, I'll take that credit. Um, but no, so it, you know Even though I did grow up in a traditional household, and for the first 5 or 6 years of my marriage, it was very traditional. Um, it was interesting, uh, seeing, you know, just being that, especially my daughter. My wife, you know, had her, took her maternity leave, and then went back to work. So here I am stuck with this 2-month-old baby, and I, I never really did well with babies, and I, you know, suck it up and get it done type thing. And so it was very interesting learning experience for me. And even though we're both working full-time, plus, you know, taking care of the kids, you know, a lot of the cooking, the cleaning, you know, the things that I, I picked up when I was, you know, sort of the stay-at-home dad, I still do them. That hasn't changed.

Yeah, that makes sense. So you grew up in nature, it's just what you knew. You were in the woods all the time because your mom kicked you out of the house. Is that something you try and— are you raising your kids in that same way, like you guys are always out and about, or is that just a different world?

Yeah, just a different world. Not as much as I'd like. I mean, um, I try to— like, I still go hunting, you know, the farm's big enough we can, we can go hunt here and stuff, but I can't pry my kids out there for some reason. Not hunting, at least. They say it's too boring. So we, you know, we go to the gun range.

Uh, that hurts.

I know, right? I'm like, you know, as a dad, you know, or growing up before you have kids, you're like, yeah, I'm gonna take my kid out, I'm gonna teach him how to hunt, hopefully he shoots better than me, and all this good stuff. And they're like, yeah, I don't really want to go, Dad.

Like, have you ever taken them? Because I assume you guys got a million squirrels out there. You ever done, uh, squirrel hunting with them, like with a little pellet gun? No, I feel like that would be fun. I've never done it.

Like I said, the only thing that I can get them out there— so now that my boys are a little older, um, a lot of times we go to the farm, uh, for work days. Like tomorrow we're working cows. We got about 200 head of cattle that we gotta treat, vaccinate and stuff. So they're gonna be there working cows. Um, but, uh, but yeah, they don't— I don't spend as much time outside as I would like to. Because, uh, I don't know, oftentimes it's just not a lot of opportunities for me, I guess.

So because you're, you're, you're, you're not in the city or anything, but you're in definitely a suburban area.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I always told myself, I said, I'm never going to live in one of those cookie-cutter neighborhoods, right? I'm only going to ever live on a farm. My wife was like, I want to live in St. Augustine. I'm like, all right, let's go look. But the only place I could afford is a cookie-cutter neighborhood because I'm not paying a million dollars for an acre of land. Yeah, and so here I am in cookie cutter neighborhoodville.

Um, at least you still have the family farm you get to go.

Yeah, it's not too far, you know. I live in St. Augustine, but you know, it's on the south end of it, which is— it's only a 20-25 minute ride to the farm, which helps out.

Yeah, yeah, I'm envious of that property. I wish it was mine or my family's.

Yeah, it is a ton of work, you know. And a lot of people I remember growing up were like, oh, look at all that land, you guys must be rich, must be rich. I'm like, you ever heard the term land rich and dirt poor? Most farmers I know are driving 15-year-old vehicles, not because they love that vehicle, but because they can't afford to buy a new one.

Yeah, and like that, I said earlier, I just imagine the taxes on that, that much acreage is just killer.

It's a lot, and a lot of the work we do, it just goes back into upkeep. Yeah, like I said, on top of the farm funds itself, but all of us have to do other things, other jobs to pay the bills and still go work the farm to keep it. So it's, it's a labor of love. I mean, none of us—

it seems like you guys made some smart moves. Like, I know the, um That whole haunted house thing was doing well for you.

It was, but what we found is, um, we ended up cutting back on that because we just— our first year was good, second year was great, third and fourth year we just got less and less people. And, and a lot of people that we got were, were repeats, people who knew. But right, the one thing about my farm is it is out sort of in the middle of nowhere.

It's a haul to get there.

Getting people out there was very difficult, and so, um, that was one of our biggest things. Now, we've kept everything from the haunted barn because the idea is eventually, um, potentially trying to do it again if we could find sort of a better location. Sure. But yeah, you know, when you have that, we're constantly getting together and talking about ideas on how to utilize the land differently in, in a 21st century world.

Because I assume the whole family wants to keep it. They don't want to have to sell parcels of it off, correct?

Right. And that's one thing we, we sat out and talked about was, you know, who's willing to put in the work. And all, all of us sat down and basically agreed.

So is that something— do your mom and dad have that in place? Because I'm big on like having a will and, and life insurance as well. Um, but because like if your, your mom and dad get in a car accident tomorrow. I mean, that could cause some, some serious friction between the family that's, that's so tight of, hey, I want it, I want to live on it. Hey, we need the money to sell it off, or we don't want to put in the money to take care of it, or the time and effort. That can really divide up a family real quick on something that large.

Yeah. And, you know, growing up in that rural setting, we thought happened with other families, right? Grandpa dies and, you know, the kids are at each other's throat. The about keeping and selling and who's getting what. So I know with the farm itself, that was all— the will was all put together because again, it was my grandfather's place. Now on my dad's side, I, I don't know. I'd have to ask Mom and Dad if they full-on got a will. I think he does, but, but I don't hope so. Yeah, I know, I know. For me, with my grandfather dying, I'm like— and I see kids— I say kids, adults, you know, people I went to school with who are croaking. I'm like, me and my wife, we got to sit down and do something, you know, put pen to paper, because we, we know what we want. It's just a matter of sitting down and getting it done.

It doesn't take very long. It's not very expensive. It just takes a little bit of effort, like an hour.

We even got the paperwork. We printed it out to fill it out. We just never actually sat down and did it.

So it sounds like tonight you got something to do, right? And then, you know, the, uh, you just gotta get it notarized, which, you know, a bunch of people in the title business, so you just swing down there and have them notarize it.

Yeah. I mean, for me, I never had anything. I had, you know, even when there was the first—

well, it doesn't matter. Even if you don't have anything, if you die, and just because some things are in your name, you just don't want it to have to go through the probate courts because it takes so long and such a frustrating experience. Whether you have anything bigger or not doesn't really matter. It's just the process your wife has to go through to move the cars and the house into her name. If you just sit there and write that will that says, hey, everything goes to my wife in the event I die, then—

oh, I, I totally agree with you.

Legal process is in place because if it's not there, you would think, you would think if I die, everything's going to go to my wife. But if it's not written and notarized in a will, state-specific, it's not going to go that way. Eventually it's going to take months. And then your wife goes from grieving that she lost her husband to hating the SOB for not putting the will in place. But now she's got all this crap because it has to go through the probate courts.

No, I totally agree with you. I'm just telling you, like, until we bought this house that we're in now, I had absolutely nothing that I personally own. We had one car that belonged to my wife. She bought that before we ever got married. That was it.

You have life insurance?

Uh, I do now again, and that's been in the past couple years when I started working for the school district. Um, but yeah, I mean, for most of our life, we, we didn't have, you know, anything.

We have it now.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, now that we're both working, which still— to live here in St. Augustine, I don't know a whole lot of families who are single income. It's very expensive. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I know it's not New York City, San Francisco expensive, but for the money that you're making at the jobs around here, it can be difficult.

Well, St. Johns County is one of the wealthier counties in Florida, correct?

You know, and things are constantly getting more and more expensive, especially real estate, as more and more people move in. But salaries—

everyone visits St. Augustine on vacation, says, wow, this is a nice place, let's, let's move here in a couple years. They do, and they do. Driving everything up. It's getting so big, it's driving me crazy.

Like, I know they're right here behind my house, they're— they proposed a 5,000-home, uh, you know, big old massive 2 million square feet of commercial space.

There goes all your wilderness.

Yeah, well, luckily there is a buffer between me and, and that, that development, but all that's, you know, they're in the process putting that together. But even here, you know, living in the woods on the edge of St. Augustine like I do, I mean, they're— I'm constantly seeing articles about new hospitals, new shopping, new— you know, St. Augustine's just blowing up. I don't know, it's great for my real estate value, from, you know, real estate perspective. But I just— growing up on a farm, I don't like being surrounded by a lot of people. I didn't grow up on a farm and I don't want to be around people either. Yeah, it's just, I sometimes dread going into town because I just— I— the angriest I ever get is when I'm driving, and that's because, you know, you got so many people that you can't control potentially killing you and your family.

Yeah. Do you ever go up to Jacksonville?

As little— I lived there for about 6 months And yeah, I try not to.

I hate, I hate driving to Jacksonville. Traffic's horrible. I mean, traffic's getting bad in St.

Augustine, but the, the furthest I ever drive into Jacksonville is the Avenues Mall. That's about it.

Downtown, that's not so bad. Um, so you got a kid, 15 years old, so he's in high school then?

Yeah, he's a freshman. Uh, he's about to finish his freshman year. He goes to to the same school that I, I teach at, St. Augustine High School. So that's been interesting.

Yeah. Any struggles with it?

What's that?

Any struggles there?

No.

In the high school or having a parent that works there?

No, not really. I mean, not— I don't think so. Uh, nothing that he's ever mentioned. It's, I don't know, it's interesting. I don't view myself In my mind, mentally, I'm too young to have a 15-year-old. Physically, I feel, you know, 78, but mentally, uh, I don't, I don't feel that old. But it's been interesting, you know, going to school with him, um, and watching him. He's a great kid. He did virtual school for a little bit, and so he's very independent in terms of if he has something, you know, uh schoolwork to do, he'll do it. I don't have to stay on top of him.

Has there been—

totally different.

But him, you know, so the 3K— oh, it was 15. So has there been college discussions, college plans starting to be laid? Are you guys like saving up for college or starting to at least work in that direction? Or you're the first to go to college? Is that even a thing for you guys, or do you care?

I'm going to be honest, I'm not a huge college fan. I, I go— having gone to college and seeing all the availability of degrees that make no money, little, even history. I, I went to school, uh, I went back to college. So originally, I, um, right out of high school, I got a scholarship to study contemporary dance. I know I don't look like a dancer, but I studied ballet and, and modern dance out of Brigham Young University. And then, um and only went there for about a semester and a half and then come home and went to work. And then I eventually went back and got my degree in history. Now I knew as a history teacher there was only really two options for me in the market at the time: teaching and librarian. Unless I, you know, sort of get creative and do something online like, you know, um, Crash Course or whatever, uh, those were my options. With my kids I, I, you know, I'd much rather them go learn to weld than get a degree in gender studies and, and have, you know, not a whole lot of job availability.

I, I agree with you. I think college has gotten overplayed. Yeah, stupid expensive. Uh, because I've had this custom a few times. I have zero problem with— if my kids want to do school, I have zero problem with it.

We'll, we'll we'll pay for it.

Um, but I'm probably going to force them to either do in-state where they have like, you know, Florida's got Bright Futures and programs to help assist in that, or community college for the first 2 years. Because is that— I went through it too, and it's like you said, sometimes you get out there with a lot of money in an education that's very not valuable. Yeah, I mean, that's your choice of school, you know. A lot of kids are going to, um those big expensive universities and they're the party school and they got a great football team and it's out of state and it's costing them, you know, uh, student loans of what, $30,000, $40,000 a year, you know, times 4 years. Yeah, so it's a stupid choice in schools to begin with. Um, but yeah, then they get some general degree that, that has no specific purpose. I mean, it's not like— it's a little different when you become a surgeon.

It's insane when you look at the list of potential potential degrees, you're like, what even—

why does it exist?

Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. And, you know, so me, my oldest kid, he's real very, very bright, lazy, which he gets that, but bright. And so I would love to see him, you know, engineering or something like that.

But when it comes to my kids, does he have an interest in any, any fields? I think he's a little young for it, but yeah.

So, you know, he was in the aerospace program, um, which I, I love that because we got Emory Riddle, we got Florida, you know, has a lot of schools for flying or even, uh, other things. But, um, he, he got bored with it after the first year, so next year he's actually going into the teaching academy, which I told him don't, but Uh, so we'll see. He's constantly trying to feel out, you know, what he wants to do. And so I guess for me, I'm not going to push my kid into anything. I was that way with sports. I'm like, if you want to play a sport, you play a sport, but I'm not going to be that you got to play football dad, or you got to play baseball, or you got to do what I did when I was a teenager. Yeah, I just let my kids Force them, support them, let them be them. That's always been my goal. I mean, other than work, like, I will tell my kids, you know, you got to get outside and mow the lawn, or the neighbor needs some help, I want you to go help them. Um, but that's just me trying to build work ethic. It doesn't mean I want them to be a landscaper. That just means I want them to understand the value of hard work.

You're molding their character, correct? Yeah, that's a good one. So yeah, not a lot of dads will mention that one, you know, in the first hour of talking. But so like you talk about helping a neighbor, so generosity, you know, things like those, just being kind.

Yeah.

What else are you guys doing to try and instill, instill those kind of values? I mean, you know, I, I've yet to talk to a dad that mentioned helping the neighbor, which was fascinating. So that's why I jump on it.

Well, like, we had some winds come through and the guy next door, his fence flew down and I propped it back up, but it just sat there. And he's in a walker, he's a retired Army vet. And, uh, I'm like, you know what? I'm like, boys, come with me. We went to the store, we picked up some screws. I have the tools already, so we put it back up and, and, uh, and, uh, just threw it together. We're here in Florida. Florida, we constantly have hurricanes. And one of the things through our religious organization is Mormon Helping Hands is we go out and we muck houses, we clean up, we cut up trees. And so, you know, make my boys go with me. And, you know, it's interesting. I remember as a kid, my dad would— we would go work other people's honeybees. Now, most of these guys were very old and couldn't really work them themselves. Themselves. But when the day was over, we still had to go back and work ours. And I resented my dad a little bit. I'm like, our stuff's dying and we're out here helping this old geezer. And but the older I got, you know, again, it's— I don't know, age brings perspective. The older I got, I, I realized how piss poor that attitude was.

So Dad forced the character that was resented for years, in a sense. So it was a, it was a friction point. It just gets appreciated later.

Yeah. And I—

because the long-term view was for good.

Yeah. It's like my wife, she goes, oh, the boys don't really want to go do that. I'm like, I, I really don't care. They're gonna go. And again, my hope is it won't build resentment. It could. And that they could, you know, focus on that versus, you know, their ability.

I genuinely don't think it will because it's for good reason.

I agree.

Yeah, it's out of kindness, it's out of gratitude, it's, it's helping.

So I'm not sitting back in a lawn chair with a Mai Tai watching them get it all done, right? It's, it's Dad's out there busting a hump and you're, you're helping me get this finished. Um, but one of the things I've enjoyed about my kids getting older is the fact that they can go and do those things, right? Uh, they can go pull weeds, they can mow a neighbor's lawn, they can actually, you know, get out and serve other people.

So we did that. Our HOA has a playground in our community. Um, for a while our HOA just stopped doing things, like stopped taking care of the common areas. And so like the trash cans at the playgrounds were all overflowing. And of course when trash cans are full, normal people would not stuff stuff in there. But for some reason the rest of the world thinks you should build a mountain on top top of it. And then once that mountain's full, you just toss around the trash can. Yeah, yeah, somebody will eventually take care of it.

It's like a game.

It's ridiculous. And then of course the wind blows it, and it's fenced in, so there's just trash all over the fence. So, uh, we were at the playground one day and just noticed that, and, um, uh, you know, we did the same thing. Just ask the boys, hey, we should clean this up. And they, you know, they say the same— why would we clean it up? Clearly no one else is. Why don't we just go ahead and go get some gloves and some trash bags and, and bag it all up and put it on the curb for the trash guys. And that's what we did. They actually loved it. I mean, they were probably— Levi was probably 7 or 8, so Ryder was maybe 5. And, you know, they still ask to this day when we can do that again. I'm like, well, ever since we did it, they've actually taken care of the park, so there's nothing to pick up right now.

But, and that's an interesting thing, it doesn't have to be some world-changing event, just something small that takes a few minutes. Like, it took literally 5 minutes. Yeah, put that fence up. And, you know, it's something, like I said, my dad kind of forced me to do, and I'm forcing my kids to do it. But I mean, like, my middle child, Cale, he go— when we were doing it, he goes, Dad, this man really can't do this. I go, no, son. I go, he's in a walker. He goes, I'm glad I'm able to help him. You know, you know, just trying to build character, I guess.

That's exactly what it is. So while we were at the park, um, they asked about like— the park's starting to age a little bit, so it was really rusty and everything. So they were asking if we could fix that, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm really skilled at that. But we got a file and some sandpaper, and like, we filed down some of like the sharp corners and things like that just to round them off so no one got tetanus. And we got some cans of like rubber spray paint, rubberized over some of it. And, uh, yeah, so I think, I think we went a little above and beyond. But yeah, I mean, they were super excited to do it. And I mean, they still mention it every once in a while. Like, we'll see a trash bag on the side of the road that, you know, clearly blew off somebody's truck and busted open. They asked if we can pull over and clean it up. Like, we're not pulling over on I-95, just hop out without bags and gloves to clean that up.

Yeah, something we got to pick up on a NASCAR track, you know. Good luck, because they don't slow down and get over for nothing.

Maybe if they're older, but I'm not taking a 5-year-old out there, so at least not without some like bright orange vest or something.

Yeah, but you know, the hope is that, you know, they'll pay it forward, you know, one day when the boys get a little older, they'll, they'll, you know, look proper.

You know, like you said, that feeling when you're done of like, wow, you know, that was a pain while I did it, but I'm glad we helped that person, or, you know, I'm glad we did that nice thing. That feeling I think will, um, be remembered, and that, that's kind of what they strive for, I would assume. Down the road, so it sticks with them. Uh, what are the other ages of your kids?

Uh, Kale's 12 and then Aria's, uh, 5.

So you got middle school?

I had one start— Talon started high school, Kale started middle school, and Aria started elementary.

So you got 2 boys that are in middle school and high school, which means they're starting to get exposed to, uh, public school, right? Not that it matters, public and private schools have the same issues. The drugs get more expensive at the private school world. Yeah, so you're getting into sex, drugs, um, girls, you know, some of the more awkward topics to discuss with your kids. Now I know you, and yeah, I know you don't mind, uh, saying words that I feel—

I'm probably more of a prude.

I don't like to say those things and then talk about them as much. I guess, how did you approach it? At what age or at what, um, maturity did you start to broach those subjects with your kids? And like, how were those discussions going? What's your advice to someone like me that hasn't gone through it yet to start? You know, you got to talk about sex, you gotta let them know about it and your values on it. And same thing with drugs.

For me, the number one thing is think back to when you were a kid. When was the first time you were ever exposed to it? All right, you want to talk to your kid before, at least before that age, right?

Yeah.

Me growing up on a farm, I understood those— the mechanics of the birds and bees at a very young age, which is why it's no biggie for me.

You were breeding animals.

Yeah, right. You know, it's nothing to walk, you know, drive, drive around on the farm and see animals procreating on a daily basis, which is fantastic because that means more money to us, right? Um, it's something, you know, you encourage, like, yes, go, you know, do it. And, you know, and so you know, intimacy and things like that. Even when at our family gatherings where, you know, Dad had 10 kids, he obviously loved Mom a lot. You know, those are just some of the jokes. But with my own kids, you know, I definitely before middle school, you know, to understand those topics. And, you know, my wife— maybe this is again more traditional, but But she's like, all right, you're the dad, you need to go talk to the boys, right? You know, she'll handle the girls because there's things that I don't understand. I can't comprehend periods, I can't comprehend, you know, those types of issues. That's something my wife is gonna have to deal with, um, unless he just, you know, God feared leave, you know, is gone. But, uh, but with my boys, you know, we talk about how their bodies are going to change and how their lives are going going to change and how their focus is going to change. It doesn't mean you got to go into super hardcore detail about all the things, but my thing is I much rather I tell it and they hear from me than maybe then they hear from, you know, Cousin Joey or Ricky, you know, in, in 6th grade, who's going to give them that. That's my information.

Yeah, exactly. So I heard, I learned I probably didn't learn. I was probably so misinformed as a youngster. Um, it just blows my mind going back and thinking about it. Yeah, because parents never sat down and had that discussion. I think after the fact there were a few awkward ones where I was just like, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know.

Oh dude, on my wedding night, you know, I'm, I'm 21 years old, my dad goes, I guess there's nothing, uh, I need to tell you that you don't already know. That was my dad's first in the piece. You know, I was 21. Um, so I was like, no, Dad, I think I got it. Yeah, all right, hope so. Uh, but yeah, so it's— I don't know, for me, you know, we try to— and a lot of, a lot of my morals are based around my religion, which is, uh, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And we work towards— I won't You know, the goal is, you know, no sex before marriage, um, but you know, if you do, you do. But the idea is, is try to save yourself. But you know, just try to encourage that. Um, but for my kids, you know, no dating until you're 16. And, uh, we sort of took the approach because, you know, I got a 15-year-old, so technically you can't start dating until, uh, until next year. So the goal is you get to— you're gonna— you can never date the same girl, you know, back to back. I'm taking the Pam rule and I'm gonna implement.

Now why is that? What's the intent behind that rule?

Comfortable.

One of my—

you know, when I look back at my life as a kid, I, I hung out with the same girls over and over and just got too comfortable. And like, you know, it doesn't mean you can't have your favorite I just don't want my kids to, you know, I want to meet a lot of different people, right? Augustine is still, you know, kind of a small town.

I want them to meet a lot of different people, be exposed to as much as possible.

Yeah.

Um, and I would think that way when they do settle down, if it's, if it's younger, um, they don't have regrets 4 years later. Man, I just didn't I didn't see enough of the world. I didn't be enough, you know. I just went with the first choice instead of, you know, yeah, it fits me.

I'm always like, well, Dad, you know, you married Mom, and you know, you were, uh, you were, uh, 20 years old when you married Mom. She was 19. Y'all were still together. I'm like, yeah, and that doesn't mean that can't happen for you. I'm just saying, while you're at my house You know, this is what's going to happen. And so, uh, and luckily, like I said, my kids haven't started dating, so it's not like I'm trying to break, you know, all right, you've been doing it this way, now we're gonna— no, this is how it's gonna start, that's how it's gonna be. And when you're 18, you date who you want, but from the age of 16 to 18, I want you to do this. And I told him that your friends are probably going to mock you. Because that's not traditional. But hey, you know, they mocked you for a lot of things. You—

how did the, uh, discussion with drugs and things like that— because I, I mean, I remember in middle school, I didn't experience it until I moved to Florida. I, I grew up in a family, um, my dad always kind of drove in like, drugs are stupid, don't ever do them, idiots, you know, that kind of thing. It wasn't until I moved to Florida, I think it was Gamble Rogers Middle School, it's like 6th or 7th grade, uh, was the first time I got actually exposed. It was like my first day there in PE class, some kids like— I came in in the middle of the year, some kids like, hey, you like to get high? You want to get high like after school? Like my first day, it was my first time being exposed to it. So middle school, uh, which I feel like is pretty early, and I never did them. I don't know, because I think it was just beaten to me. I was actually— I think I was more afraid of athletics, it affecting my athletic career, and I just knew I was going to go play in the NFL, so I didn't want it to affect me. Then I got to college and realized that all the great athletes were stoners, so it really maybe doesn't affect you all that much.

Oh yeah, yeah, my top 100 class, half of them were stoned most of the time.

I'm like, okay, so have you had that with your middle schooler in, uh, in high school?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, we're especially with, with high school. I mean, like I said, when I was in middle school like you, I saw, you know, kids selling weed on the playground, like, like in, you know, during lunch, you know.

Really?

Yeah, yeah, they're selling weed right there at Beasley Middle School. Um, and, uh, makes you wonder, like, what, what's their source?

Like, where are they getting it from?

And dude, this was, you know, years ago, and it's gotten a lot worse now. Now. Like you said, the drugs have changed. It's not weed, it's a pill that, you know— I know our big problem at our school, on top of drugs, suicide, and other things, is, uh, you know, that whole vaping thing, right? I didn't even know what they were.

Oh yeah, the e-cigarettes.

Yeah, I taught for 2 years, they're like, it looks like a USB drive. I'm like, I wonder how many kids are just smoking in my class, and I didn't know No, my back was turned. But yeah, we've had that talk, and a lot of it comes down to, like your dad, you know, it's just stupid, you know, it's expensive. And me, I, I take an economical approach. I'm like, you know, oh my goodness, yeah, is that the truth, right? And it's not attractive, but you know, like, I grew up in a family, we, my My parents never drank. They never did. They never smoked cigarettes. We didn't even drink coffee or tea, which, you know, you know, Latter-day Saints, thank you, Mormon thing. But, um, so it was, you know, that doesn't mean I didn't, you know, you know, sow my wild oats and try a few things. But with my own kids, same thing with sex. I'm like, guys, don't.

But if you do, is there anything that was, uh that you're dealing with in the high school, middle school age group that is unexpected, that just didn't exist? And, you know, besides the whole vaping thing, it just didn't exist when we were there.

The depression, the amount of depression and anxiety that I see among young kids today, being a teacher.

Hey, could you just mention you're dealing with suicide in the high school? Yeah, which I hadn't heard anything about that?

Yeah. Oh yeah. So that's— that's— and a lot of it's because of the depression again, and the anxiety that goes along with it. I didn't have anxiety. I don't think I did, you know, when I was a teenager. But today, dude, it's crazy.

What do you think is causing that struggle?

Social media. It would be probably the biggest, uh, progenitor.

Oh, so, so caring about what other people are saying and thinking.

Constant comparison. As a teacher, like, you know, they're, they're constantly, well, I've got the new iPhone. Oh, well, you know, I've, I've got, you know, a 3-year-old. Ha, you're 4. And then, you know, clothes, shoes. I remember my kid, my middle kid, wanted a pair of white Adidas. And I love white. It's like, I'm like, yeah, my boy's going retro. Get it. He wears them to school one day and then never wears them again. Two weeks go by, they're still brand new, just sitting there.

I'm like, um, someone said something.

Yeah, like, why aren't you wearing the shoes? Uh, you know, I just don't like them anymore. I go, you loved them. What's going on? He goes, well, this kid made fun of me. You know me, I'm like, you know, F that kid or whatever. But, uh, you know, yeah, and that's just how it is.

So I, I mean, even to this day, I just so genuinely don't care what other people think. Like, I almost, I almost go against the grain on purpose just because that's how much I don't care. Like, I don't want to go with status quo. Um, guys, I wonder how you ingrained that. I mean, did you tell your boy, like, bro, wear them, do you? Yeah, like, like, forget— who cares what they think?

Yeah, I mean, you know, and what I told him, I'm like, you know, just laugh it off. With me, I, I got to the point in my life where I'll make fun of myself before you ever can, right? Like my first day of school, when my students come in, I go, hi, my name's Jacob Tilton, and yes, I'm bald, right? So, you know, Yeah, take away the power. And that's what I try to tell my kids. I'm like, you know, if somebody's like, what are those? Be like, they're white shoes. It's not so funny anymore.

I was telling Ryan the other day, I forget what it was in regards to. I was like, man, I need to remember what the story was. I know I said if someone was making fun of me because I had purple hair, like, I wouldn't care. Because to me it's not. Yeah, whatever, it's irrelevant to me. I don't care what they think. I just think they're wrong. Like, that's how I feel on almost everything. If you make fun of me for something because I don't dress— I certainly don't dress for, uh, style. I just wear whatever I grab. And in high school, I just wore whatever the football team gave me. Like, we had in St. Augustine High School was maroon shorts and gray shirts. It's all I wore all day, every day. Just no care. I didn't care if it matched. I didn't care I didn't care if it was inside out. I didn't care if it smelled bad. Just whatever, that's what I wore. And if you thought otherwise, I just thought you were wrong.

I mean, you know, towards the end of my high school, I remember I started to care a little bit more. For me, it was about girls, you know. I dressed because I wanted to meet girls and, and, uh, and whatnot. Uh, that's, you know, one of the reasons I learned how to dance and went to dance and sing and stuff because I just, I want to meet chicks. I was just really into girls back then. But, you know, to me, I don't know, and again, maybe this is just me looking back, I swear it's worse today, man, as far as kids just being hypercritical, not only of each other but of themselves in terms of looks and appearance. And, and I know, you know, you go on these social media sites like like Instagram, and, and the— all the girls look fantastic, but you take away the filters and a little less fantastic, right?

Sure, sure.

But that's all they see is these doctored up things, and everybody looks like they have the per— right? You see this face that looks gorgeous, but if you pan out, their, their house is just as beat up as yours is, right? Yeah. And that's what I'm, you know, trying to get that across to to a kid is, is hard.

Yeah, I guess that's one of those things. You just got to start early and just consistent, consistent, consistent.

He doesn't care. He's like you, man. Whatever is laying around, you know, he just does not really care about clothes or anything.

I think it's great.

But my middle child is Kale is super hyper-focused on it, man. He wants to be in that, that in crowd. So it's very interesting seeing those two different and trying, you know, having to deal with what it is completely different.

See, I never wanted to be in the in crowd. I wanted them to join me. Like, just come my way. Like, I'm gonna go left, you just come with me. If you're going right, whatever, I'm still going left.

I tell him all the time, I'm like, son, be a leader. Yeah, be different. If they, you know, they'll, they'll come to you because that's going to be—

because that's going to be the winning way 5 years after high school.

Yeah.

So how big is suicide really a problem there?

It's pretty bad.

Really? Like, is that within the county, or like, is that just teacher stats nationwide, or is it like your school?

It, it's, it's nationwide. It's, it's It's a big issue. I mean, it's to the point where the state of Florida is mandating that we teach mental health lessons, which is odd because I know nothing about mental health. But yeah, this year they mandated finally because anxiety, depression, suicide, drugs have become such an issue in school. I mean, I'm very good, but school school district is about protecting kids' identity and protecting, right?

And then that's smart because that kind of stuff, that kind of gossip will compound.

I love about St. Johns County is it— as a teacher, it can be difficult because I want to know more about how I can help my students, but they're very, very protective about, you know, what they let people know.

Yeah, and that's smart. That is smart. That's something I'm gonna dig into then, definitely put it on some more content, like, and just figuring out how, how do you, uh, I guess, what, how do you build up that level of character, of self-esteem and self-worth, you know? Just who gives a shit what other people think.

It doesn't matter, dude. We're talking poor kids in a standard class or your ace kids who come from money. It's across the board.

It knows no economic, socioeconomic class, which is something important for dads to be talking about.

But yeah, I guess as young as possible, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, it doesn't matter, black, white, be yourself. Yeah, and you— but you see it all across the board, um, kids act—

I mean, and I don't think having a home life where mom and dad genuinely like love and care about you regardless of your, your path of where you're going. Yeah, I would think that's super important versus a mom or dad that's trying to help them fit in with getting the right clothes and getting the right electronics and things like that. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, trying to help them fit in because it almost projects as, um, geez, maybe mom and dad don't have confidence in me to be cool or fit in, like they're trying to help me get there with these things. That are going to change all the time, uh, versus I have this stable base at home that loves me regardless of what I wear, or realize what I have and what I wear.

That'd be my biggest thing is just, you know, let my kids know that I don't care, right? I told my kids, I said, outside of murder, I will always love you. I don't care if you're drugs or divorce or whatever, um, you know, you're my kid. I love my medicated or anything.

That's a good thing. All right, anything else you wanna, you wanna bring up? From Bees to Suicide.

Yeah, Bees to Suicide, right? So I mean, I find it interesting, you know, you know, old boys versus girls thing, but my kids are still young and, you know, I'm my biggest critic, you know. I always, I've always focused on my negatives, which I guess that's what kids do today. But, you know, I always look at, like, you know, throughout the wheel thing, I look up, you know, my savings for retirement and all that. I didn't do college education for my kids because we never had enough money to, you know, pay for groceries, much less set aside money. So my hopes are, if my kid's going to college, it's Bright Futures Scholarship. I find oftentimes as No one, one, you know, one size fits all.

Oh no, and that's the most— that's the most difficult thing about the subject in general is just it's so diverse and so wide and there's so many things that work. There's a few core things that are important, but yeah, uh, that's different cultures and different personalities and different families. Different things work for you, and what works for you doesn't necessarily work for for Bill and John.

And my biggest, my biggest fear before I ever had kids, and it's still my biggest fear today, is that something I said or something I will do will screw my kids up, will just engrain in their head and create some sort of, you know, mental thing later on down the road.

And, you know, that'd have to be either really repetitive or really dramatic.

I agree, I agree. But, you know, that's always my biggest fear is, you know, am I telling my kids I love you enough? Am I being— I know I'm not positive enough. I'm oftentimes— and I was thinking about this the other day— is I think I spend more time nitpicking my kids, you know, take out the trash.

Sure.

You know, you got to be— well, we all do that for an A. And trying to step back as a dad and say, okay, you've criticized, now let's find, uh, build them up, positive, right? Something positive to, you know, because it's not the Army. I'm not trying to, you know, break them down to build them up. I'm just— oh, I am 100%.

I absolutely am. I have no idea tearing them down as long as we're also building them up on the flip side of that.

It's not just constant tear down.

It's not boot camp, it's over, you know, 20 years. But yeah, yeah, I have no problem nitpicking and correcting, and it just has to be done. I mean, you know, but then also, you know, some positive enforcement, build them up.

I mean, I want my kids to be better than me, and not to say that I'm bad, I just, I don't want that. Like my kid, my son, the other day he was What was he doing? He was swinging something around and it wasn't even ours. And I'm like, son, don't do that. I'm like, that'll break. He goes, gosh, wasn't he doing nothing wrong? I go, no, no, no, I'm telling you that will break because when I was your age, I swung the exact same thing around. It was like a boogie board, right? And I'm like, this thing will pop out and that's not even ours. He was so upset that I got off to him, but I'm like, dude, I see what's going to happen because I've done it.

Well, and you explain it like that and it's going to make a whole lot more sense. Maybe not immediately, but, you know, upon reflection for him. When the— when the why is told, it— I think it, it helps a lot.

But, you know, I think oftentimes us as dads is we're like, you know, hey, don't, don't do that, that's a mistake, because we made it, right? We don't want you to make that same mistake.

You know, and at the same time, I remember thinking this when I was a kid because I moved out when I was 16. And, uh, part of the premise— I remember my dad yelling at me over something. We got in some big fights. Uh, uh, but it was— he was saying something like, because he grew up without a dad, that he's giving me everything he didn't have because he didn't have a dad. I just remember thinking— I never said it to him, but yeah— but you're not giving me things you did have. You had freedom, you had independence, you had the ability to, you know, you're kind of on your own, uh, you could make your own choices. You weren't just being puppeteered. Um, so, you know, I just— it's something that's ingrained with me of making sure you give them some of the stuff you did have. Like, you had a lot of freedom. You had, you know, the ability to just go off on your own.

And as long as we got our work done, my parents were pretty, pretty progressive. And, you know, yeah, you can go hang out. Yeah, you can go there. And that's, that's one thing me as a dad that I'm trying to— I'm having to deal with now with my 15-year-old. Like, the other day he's like, hey, can I go to this ice cream joined my friends, my first ministry with.

Oh yeah, you want to keep them in your bubble.

Yeah, but I'm like, well, the kid's almost 16, he's going to be driving, so just getting used to the fact that, like you, like you said, I got to give them some independence, what I did. And that's— but when they're out of my control, they're not safe, you know. I can't protect you, I can't, I can't swat away the drugs and, and that type of stuff and terrifies me to death.

Especially part of it, you gotta hope you did a good enough job in high school.

You know, I could just stand in the hall monitoring the hall and oh my gosh, the stuff I hear, it will make a sailor blush. It's, it's very interesting.

I remember I had a teacher in high school, uh, one of my favorite teachers, uh, she would always do the prom dance, like she would always volunteer and be one of the teachers there, but she would never look at the dance floor because she did once, like her first year of, uh, teaching. It was like she was so scarred by it, she would just— she would always face the other way. She would do like the entrance and that's it, just because she didn't want to see her— she didn't want to see her students in that light.

Oh, I went to prom with my wife at St. Augustine, and you know, I went to prom in black too, but oh my goodness, they, uh—

yeah, that was 50 years or what, 20 years ago?

Yeah, it was. I haven't gone— I haven't volunteered to teach her because like that lady I don't want to see any of that. But it's fair. Yeah, it was, it was intense. I, I tell my students that story. I'm like, I, I, you know, guys with their shirts off and nothing but pants on, and girls with their dresses up around their bellies with their G-strings. I'm just like, yeah, that's not good. And everybody's in a crowd, so unless the teacher wiggles their way up in there, they're not going to see it. You know, and it's dark and all that stuff. But it was— I'm gonna let my kid go to prom. It's fun. There's a problem, you know, keep your shirt on. Hopefully she'll keep her dress down.

Yeah, that'd be helpful. All right, I appreciate you coming on. Sorry it took so long to set up.

No, no problem. But, you know, glad to do it. If you ever want to do it again, absolutely.

Yeah, because, well, I mean, we— gosh, there's so much more we could have talked about, but I'm gonna lose my battery here soon.

Yeah, all right.

Jacob Shelton, 100% Dad, episode 9, interview with dads. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Be good.