S3: E15 Teaching life lessons while having fun with Curt Jordan of Kong Academy

Season 3, Episode 15. Today we talk how to incorporate life lessons into extracurricular activities, into sports, into after-school programs, summer camps. We speak with Kurt Jordan of the Kong Academy and teaching life lessons like self-responsibility into everyday physical activities. Without further ado, your host Townsend Russell. This is the 100% Dad Podcast, Season 3, Episode 15. We've got Kurt Jordan of the Kong Academy in Seattle, Washington. So I was just looking up a little bit ago about what you guys do because I didn't know. Once you guys reached out and kind of wanted to set this up, you sent me a nice little email and I liked it. I like the sound of it. Couldn't remember what it was, looked up the site, and you do parkour for kids, which I just thought was Absolutely cool. I've only heard— I was in California, I think we were in Yosemite, we met a family and they were from LA, and their kids, they said their kids went to parkour, um, like 3, 4 times a week, which I had never— we're from Florida, I had never heard of there being a parkour business. I didn't know that existed. I didn't know you could send your kids to camp. I didn't know that there were businesses around parkour. I thought parkour was just a thing some people did randomly in cities, and clearly I am wrong because you have a business around it. So tell me a little bit about that.

Yeah, so, uh, well, so you're not necessarily wrong. There are people who just get together and do it, and that's how we started, was, um, this wasn't a thing really when we had first started, right? Parkour was, uh, it was, it was termed Russian climbing actually when I was first like, I want to get into this thing, right? It was, uh, it was a very beginning, uh, movement And it was something that is— has not been around for very long, and now it's becoming like part of common culture where you know that word now, right? That was not the case 10 years ago, right? And, uh, let alone was it available to people to come and practice.

Honestly, I probably heard it mostly because my kids like to watch that show, which we haven't seen in a while now that I think about it, um, American Ninja Warrior. Yeah, so a lot of those people, you know, in that parkour club or parkour— yeah, what do you call it, hobby?

Uh, it's, it's a sport. Yeah, I would say it's definitely a sport. Um, but then it is, you know, it is kind of even what you were talking about a little bit before, was that it is whatever that athlete chooses to make it, right? Either it's a pastime play activity, or it is a spiritual discipline, or it is somewhere in between. And it's you know, it's something— it's an athletic pursuit, um, you know, or it's something to show off to your friends, right? Like, it's, uh, it's just basically parkour, for those of you who may not know, is the discipline of overcoming obstacles, essentially the physical discipline. And that translates really well into your life. And that's my definition of it, because even in parkour, because it's relatively new, there isn't— not— there is not a very standard definition You're going to hear people say, well, it's getting from A to B efficiently, or even within parkour, you know, is it flipping or is it practice? Is it the actual function? So because it's relatively new, it still has a lot of wiggle room for a lot of these things. But to me and to what I teach is parkour is the physical discipline of overcoming obstacles. And what we do is we use parkour and physical play because Because let me— I'm going to reframe just a little bit, because we do teach parkour, right? That is the flashy, cool, uh, you know, lure for things. But what we really do is we teach and develop social and emotional skills for kids, right? Because, uh, if you— but we do that through play, and we do that through movement. Because if you want to teach a kid anything meaningful, you have to make it relevant to their life. And what do kids all love to do? They love to play, they love to move, they love to, you know, and if they can develop a skill set where they're actually able to do things on the playground, or, you know, you mentioned to your kids, my kids love watching American Ninja Warrior, right? Because, you know, like every, like every 8-year-old boy wants to be Spider-Man, right? Like, you know, or Batman, or, you know, some type of very younger than that. Yeah, exactly. And so if you So if you tap into that and you're like, oh, I'm gonna show you how to do that, right? They're like, what? Are you serious? And then, but through that physical experience, you get all of these emotional and social experiences, right? Like if I say, all right, we're gonna stand on this block and it might be 5 feet tall, right? And I'm gonna have you jump from one block to another block that maybe is 4 feet across and another 5 feet up, then that's scary. Because that's taller than me and I'm standing up high and I'm looking down and I see the gap and now I'm scared. Good, now we have a chance to practice. How do you manage emotion? How do you manage fear? How do you manage, uh, you know, like, to, to the responsible decision-making practice of saying I need to do something different, all right, or no thank you. Like, all of that stuff comes about because kids get an opportunity, but you can't teach this stuff to them unless it's relevant to their life. And the best way to make it relevant to their life is to make it something they want to do, like play. And so we use parkour as a vehicle to teach something more meaningful.

And I— so I really like those. I'm a wrestler, uh, or, you know, obviously not anymore, I'm 35. So, uh, you know, I would get— I get injured opening the window sometimes. But back when I was little, I was a wrestler, and I wrestled in college. And so wrestling as an individual sport, much like parkour is, um, I've always— I've always enjoyed those individual sports because there are so many learning benefits. And, you know, we call it, you know, building character. But, you know, the same with parkour. I would think not only is it exercise, um, but it's learning how to control your body. It's learning, um, it's learning restraint. At least in wrestling, it's learning restraint because you kind of learn how not to do the illegal move, not to really injure your opponent, just beat your opponent. But I think in parkour too, you learn what not to jump over, what not to jump into, or, or things like that.

Yeah, right.

Uh, you know, in wrestling, it's identifying social cues. You know, you kind of, you you learn because there you do have an opponent you're dealing with, um, or training partners, things like that. You know, you learn how to deal with pain and pushing past your comfort zones. And, you know, balance, obviously, you know, the physical act of balance, right? Um, you know, humility, because you're gonna fail a lot, right? And it's— and there's no one to blame. It's not like football. You can't blame, you know, your quarterback for throwing the ball wrong when you're on the offensive line. If you're wrestling, if you're doing parkour and you fail It's you. Like, you just have to accept that fact that you came up short and do something about it, and you really start to understand your power and your place in the world.

Um, yeah, that's— and that's, uh, um, very, very much, um, you know, I like to say that gravity doesn't lie, right? Like, if you don't make it, you fall, right? You don't— it's not a, well, it's not my fault, or, you know, so it's a— there's a lot of personal responsibility to be taken in these sports. That's one of the nice things, I, you know, similar to what you're speaking into, is that like it's the self, right? It's the self versus another in wrestling more, but in, and in parkour it's like the self versus environment or with environment. So you're learning, you know, to test your limits and, and you're able to kind of find where your line is and what you need to develop and work on. And so it, it does offer, yeah, similar to what you're saying, it offers that. So, uh, the other thing that what you're speaking into is that you experienced this self-development, and you experienced this self-development anecdotally, right? You had a personal experience, and from that personal experience, you learned these more valuable life lessons, right? The, the, the issue that a lot of sports doesn't create is that those things are not the primary lesson, right? Because you— and, and what it's left to is that it's always left up to the individual to discover and uncover But if a coach is able to say, today we are going to practice, you know, saying how we feel and asking for what we need, right? That is what we are practicing. So then I take kids out and I'll say, all right, so we're up here and, oh, that's too far. I need that block closer. Thank you for telling me how that feels, right? Oh, that's scary. I'd like to do it lower. Great. Come over to this station over here. We'll practice it lower. So just by, instead of it being left to like this, oh, I felt this, and then it's this unspoken thing until we become 35 years old and we are like, you know, that's what I learned in college, right? What if we could apply that to kids at a younger age? And that was actually the developed curriculum around what it is that you're working on through the physical practice, right? So, you know, this quarter for our parkour program, We're, we're practicing making responsible decisions. So like literally yesterday when I was teaching classes, I taught to, uh, 4 and 5-year-olds what the word consequences mean. And by the end of the class, they learned that a consequence is not just negative, it's also positive, and it's in your control, right? Because whatever action you do, you get a result. And that's why we broke it down. A consequence is what happens after a choice. I broke it down as simple as I could, and for those kids, I was like, now we're going to practice our jumps, but I want you to practice one that's not too far or not too close so you can actually get better. Because then if you pick the right, uh, level of challenge, you get to get better. And so they were starting to tie together that their behavior related to consequences, and that was the theme of the lesson.. And from that, they actually were— we then, we can have a conversation, be like, what, where else could you apply this to your life, right? So this is something that, um, so developing social and emotional learning, uh, for kids is really what we do. It's just we do it through something fun like parkour.

That's interesting. So you found a way to come combine the physical, the sport, with life lessons, it sounds like.

Yeah, it leads with life lessons. Right? It's like, today we're going to practice, you know, um, overcoming our limited beliefs, or today we're going to practice how to communicate with each other better, and we're going to do that by, you know, X, Y, and Z, right? And then they're like, all right, let's play, let's practice, you know. So it's— yeah, it's super fun. Yeah, yeah, interesting.

I'm not sure, is it— is that a model that's being used around the country, or is that something that you've, you've found is kind of your thing.

Yep, that's, uh, I, I was like, you know, because what happened was, is, uh, so I was teaching, uh, parkour at a facility and helped this facility grow and develop. And from that experience, all of these, uh, parents were like, my kid is learning how to be brave, or my kid is learning how to control themselves, they're nicer to their sister when they come home. And whatever you're doing in your class, it's, it's, you know, like A lot of parents were 6 months waitlist out the door. They weren't doing it because I was, you know, the expert at getting their physical skills developed. Parents wanted to keep signing their kids up because their kids had fun and they were actually becoming better people, right? And so I was like, well, what am I doing? So I had, you know, occupational therapists come in and, you know, watch what I was doing and, you know, take notes and give me feedback. And I had you know, interviews with parents and trying to figure out what, what is it that I'm doing. And then I started to develop and understand that actually what I'm doing is teaching social emotional learning. You know, you might have heard like SEL, right? So anyone who's listening, like, you may have heard SEL lately or somewhere, right? That's what I— that's the— that's where I uncovered, oh, this is what I'm developing. So then I was using what I fell into naturally, um, and, uh, basically, I truly believe what my purpose is on this planet because this is, you know, this has been what I've done for over 20 years, and I just did it because it felt right and it was natural, and I was, and I was getting great results. So, and I've been working with thousands of kids and hundreds and hundreds of families, so it's been, it's been awesome.

So, okay, now you're doing this— so I looked you guys up, you're over in Seattle. Which is wild because I looked up your location. I just threw it in Google Maps real quick. You're right next to Carkeek. Is it Carkeek Park? Okay, so we were down there. We were hanging out at Carkeek Park for a little bit when we did our Seattle trip. Because if you take— it's kind of like First Avenue or Greenwood Avenue down to the Fred Meyer, which is a little bit kind of back towards that one main road. I forget the name of it. Uh, but there's a Fred Meyer there, uh, not too far from your location, uh, away from Carkeek Park, I guess, a little bit. Uh, and my sister-in-law and brother-in-law lived there, and that was like a condo complex right there. They just bought a condo more downtown Seattle. But so we were hanging out there like 2, 3 days, went to Carkeek Park, and we were right next to you. Had we known, we could have stopped by for some parkour, because I'm sure my kids would have— my kids have never done parkour outside of just jumping around on a playground by themselves, but Um, and honestly, that would have been fun.

That is— yeah. And yeah, next time you're in Seattle, hit me up.

We're gonna be there. So the plan is, uh, Alaska for the summer, and then when we come back, we're going to spend some time in Washington, uh, because my wife wants to see her sister again. Um, so we will be there, uh, what is that, August, September, somewhere around there. Yeah, so we'll definitely try— we'll definitely try and connect then.

Perfect. Yeah, please do.

So are you, are you exclusive to just a Seattle area, or have you found a way to make this mobile with, uh, what do you call it, uh, COVID?

Yep, absolutely. So actually, during COVID we actually grew, uh, over 100% that year. And right, so, um, and I know that that's not everybody's story, right, because everybody has had a lot of hardships and things. For us.

The truth is, you know, there weren't as many hardships as you think. Everyone got so much money. I mean, there were complaints about stuff, but I mean, if you got laid off or furloughed or whatever, you got paid solid. And everyone got their little bonus checks, and business owners got— you know, there are a few stories out there. We had a cousin that she had started her business, it was an indoor playground. She had started it in January, got shut down by March. And then beyond that, even when they were opened up, uh, you know, everyone was resistant to go back and things like that.

Yeah, totally.

But she was a brand new business, so she did not qualify for the PPP loan. So I mean, a lot of businesses came out ahead, um, where they were. Plus there's so much money injected into the system, injected into the individual, uh, pocketbooks and bank accounts that, uh, you know, that's why spending and all those stocks went crazy. And, you know, everyone's buying new stuff and, and maybe not so much the experiences as much anymore, but Um, so I do, I push, I push back when someone says that a little bit because while we were all saying that in the beginning, the reality kind of played itself out to where no, trillions got injected into the system. Everyone actually did pretty good. That's why, you know, that's why a lot of people didn't want to go back to work and didn't need to go back to work and had a lot more freedoms and a lot more excess cash than they did.

And it did act, and it did very strongly push us into new ways of doing things because, you know, typically we don't do things that are uncomfortable for us, and to change what we're doing is— was not something, but this, this forced us into changing what we're doing. So now, you know, we can just work from home and do Skype meetings or, you know, or Zoom or whatever, you know.

A lot of people are doing that.

Yeah, a lot of people are—

a lot of people are resistant to go back to the workplace because why? This has been working for you. Why do I need to go to your office when this has been working for, what, right, 2 years now?

And businesses can save on rent and all these other things that they don't need to be paying for, right?

So it's this, uh So, you know, there's usually leases tied in there that you've committed to.

Yeah, but nevertheless, it's like, you know, uh, it's this, uh, it's, it's just new ways of operating, essentially.

Yeah, it's fascinating. It's a new world. Um, yeah, one that's exciting in some ways and, and probably a little depressing in others.

Yeah, but, um, all right, so how did you guys go virtual? Yeah, so we went virtual by, um It was everything got shut down because as you can imagine, we were 100% in-person business. And so, uh, when kids couldn't come and play and practice, it was the need was still there, but kids couldn't go see their friends or go out and do stuff. So over the weekend, I literally put together a, uh, a curriculum for a, uh, Living Room Ninja is what we called it. And it was basically do this stuff, but you get to use You're going to be in your room and you're going to, you know, be responsible about what you can and can't use. You know, you ask your mom or your dad, what can I do? What can I not use? And so there was this ownership of like, okay, your world's your playground, but it's your responsibility to take care of it, right? And so is it okay to use the couch? Is it not okay to use couch? So we had developed this program for kids to be able to do at home, and it's still running. And when it came out, we actually got the, uh, we got it, uh, the nation's award for best online program for kids in 2020, right? So that was, uh, it, it was pretty, it was pretty cool. I was like, yeah, all right. So we, and we've won that award twice since then, which is pretty awesome. And, um, one of the nice things about the, um, uh, the online work that we do is it gave me an opportunity to not just do work with kids, but now also work with families. Because I've been in over— I've been in education for over 20+ years. It's like 23 years now. And in that time I have, you know, worked with just— I can't— countless kids, thousands of kids. And what I'd realized, because I got to talk to a lot of parents, because when that switch happened, there was a lot of parents that were like, I'm with my kid now 3 times as much as I was before, and I'm trying to get my work done. And you know, it's stressful, right? Like, you didn't— like, parents did not know, how do I handle this? And part of it is because, well, yeah, you didn't— like, there wasn't as much time because we'd bring them to school and like they would spend their day there and we'd do our work thing, we'd reconvene at nighttime. But so many parents, in conversations that I had with them, they were not um, they did not realize that there were 3 primary things that educators do for their kid— for kids, students— that parents commonly don't do, right? And like, so, and that being, you know, there are rules in the classroom, there are routines in the classroom, and there are consequences that are held very, uh, um, very sternly and strictly, right?

So which every household should have kids thrive on that kind of structure. Not, not military drill sergeant, right, rules and discipline structure, but there needs to be a— yeah, this is how the household runs, some expectations, because that gives stability to a life. So if you don't have that, if you're listening and you don't have that, create that today with your spouse.

It's— and if you don't know how to do it, that's something we can help you with. But it is rules, routines, and consequences. Are huge. If you do not have those things, you are leaving the child to fill in the holes and try to find the boundaries and try to figure out how this whole thing of life works, which is essentially what we are for as parents, is to be, you know what, here's some structure and some guidance. And then that doesn't mean that you control all of their choices. It doesn't mean that you now create, you know, like you are, like you said, military, you know we wake up at this time, you eat this, and then you come here. It's like you can allow freedom and flexibility, but without structure, the— it's very stressful to a child who is trying to figure out how to be, because they don't know the world.

They— their normal is what you've kind of provided to them. And so when we have the, the construct, the framework, the fencing of life, uh, taken care of, it opens up their mind in their world for those freedoms, for those individual choices. But Yeah, they don't have that 30 years of experience the parent has to dictate what life should be or how it should operate. No, I'm, I'm 100% on board with you. There's— that structure needs to be there, and it— and kids will absolutely, 100%, unequivocally thrive in a structured environment.

Yeah, I mean, most of the— most of a child's brain develops— 90% of a child's brain develops outside of the womb, right? The more that you provide structure for them the less stressful it is for that development to occur. If you don't provide structure, then you're basically creating a more stressful childhood because they're constantly trying to find that comfort in the boundaries. Because that boundary lets you— lets your kid know that they're protected and taken care of, and that when there's a line to be drawn, you're willing to draw it, right? Because that's— that keeps them safe. Then they under— like, even if they don't like the no. If you don't tell them no, they won't be able to say no, right? Like, if you— if they don't learn from modeling from someone who can say, you know, who can draw boundaries, then they're not— they're not going to be able to draw boundaries as well when they get older. So you— yeah, I mean, I'm sure that you— I, you know, I got to poke around your website a little bit, and it was like one of the things that you had said quite a— quite a— quite a few times in a few places was like modeling. You have to lead, right? Like, you have to be an example. So yeah, and it's— yeah, it's part of the responsibility. So yeah, everyone's favorite R word.

Uh, obviously I agree 100%. You read it on the site. And your parkour lessons, are you guys going out to public parks, or do you have like an indoor facility where you guys train?

Um, so we do a— we have our physical location, um, nestled at the Phinney Neighborhood Association. We've been in over 50 Seattle Public Schools where we have a mobile unit where we'll go and set up after-school programs. And then we also have our summer camps. And this year we'll have our biggest summer camp. We'll have 1,000 kids this year, and it's going to be at Carkeek Park.

Oh, nice. Yeah. How often is that? Like, do you guys spend the whole day there, or is it like a couple hours a day, 5 days a week? Or what's the summer camp look like?

Yeah, it's a 9 to 5 or 9 to 4:30 rather. Um, 9 to 3, but then if you do extended care, it'd be 9 to 4:30. So, you know, giving parents the opportunity to, you know, work and yeah.

Yeah. Well, and we'll jump back to jump back a little bit because you're talking about in COVID, we got a lot of questions about, um, you know, when, when people were first starting to work from home when COVID hit back in, uh, was that March, April, May of 2020? And that was a big struggle of, now I'm home, the kids are home, what do we do? Uh, because it was, it was, it was a real pain point. It was a frustration. People didn't know how to operate like that. And part of that broke my heart because, I mean, honestly, this was— some of the struggle was, I've never spent this much time around my kid. I was like, gosh, well, that's heartbreaking. Like, that needs to change. Let's, let's, let's change that dynamic and spend more time around our kids. Let's not just shovel off the responsibility to after-school programs and schools and and different sports and other things like that. Let's actually be involved in raising our kids, not farming it out.

And part of that— oh, oh, go ahead.

Yeah, and then part of that was they actually need to get work done. And, you know, uh, for someone like me, I'd rather spend time with my family. We homeschool now, so we didn't have to deal with— I, I will say, the, the virtual schooling and the doing school online was just a massive failure. Like, I've, I've yet to talk to a parent that was like, yeah, that was a great thing, that went smoothly. That would mean there was it was plagued with IT issues, plagued with, um, all sorts of frustrations. And I would not recommend that to anybody. That is not what homeschool is like. Homeschool is much more efficient, and you can get it done much quicker. Uh, the virtual school and the, and the doing school online was just as much the waste of time that normal school is, uh, just sitting there staring at a screen, um, and then dealing with actual connectivity issues and the systems failing and things like that. It was just, um, so then there were, there were realities to having to do that. A lot of parents having to almost sit side by side with their kids, do school with them essentially, and then try and get work done. Um, you know, just not having proper internet at home, not having a, a separate place to go to where they can kind of be isolated, being interrupted all the time, not being able to get to the flow of work. I think a lot of employers were more understanding of interruptions and things like that. So You know, we're like, for me, I just kind of do work at night instead. You know, I'd rather play with my kids during the day and then just stay up later or get up earlier to get work knocked out. I know it was a thing a lot of people were struggling with. Um, uh, what I think the schools miss out on, and also some of those parents miss out on, is kids behave a whole lot better not only in that structured environment you were talking about where there are established conditions there are— they, they remarkably improve in behavior and the way that they act when they've been— it sounds like you have pets, but when they've been ran, when they have exercised, when they've expelled energy, which we know everyone knows, but I don't think people remember how much energy they had as a kid. And especially in some of the school systems now where they just— you have to sit still all the time. They've eliminated PE in quite a few schools, or they've significantly reduced it. It's gotten to the point at the schools in our county, which is the number one county, um, and I roll my eyes when I say that in Florida, uh, the— where during, uh, gosh, what, when they eat lunch, they're not allowed to talk anymore. They have the red light, green light, yellow light system because they were too loud and the principal didn't like it. So now you've suppressed kids during the day, you're suppressing them in between classes, You're suppressing them during lunch, you're taking away their PE, then you're sending them home.

It's just—

well, that's why the kids are riled up, and that's where parkour is huge.

But, you know, for the parents that were just movement or just play and exercise, just move, right?

Our kids, our kids are allowed to stand while they do schoolwork.

Great, that's awesome.

We had a trampoline at home. We would let them do 15 minutes of work, run out, or when you finish an assignment, go out to the trampoline, jump on trampoline for 15 minutes and then come back. Can't do that at school, but you can do that at home.

And well, it depends on what schooling system too, because this is where I think culturally you're speaking into a big cultural problem that we have, and that is what is focused on. A lot of parents have the misconception that if they prepare their kids for college, they've prepared them for life. But that's not true, because the deal is, is that most people who've got their college education don't work in the thing that they got their education in, right? Most people who get their degree are not working.

Don't prepare, right? Do not prepare your kids for college. Prepare them for life.

100%. And so, but what has happened is all of childhood has been taken away effectively and replaced with being a little adult. Because instead of kids— like, I'm willing to bet that you got to come home when the lights came on or the dinner bell rang or something to that effect. Right?

Oh yeah, tremendous amount of freedom.

And the difference between the generation prior and the one that we're currently raising them under is with this misconception that things are more dangerous, which it's not— they're more safer than they've ever been— that, um, things are just different today than they were before. Yeah, it's safer, but parents are more worried. So what they're trying to do is they fill all of their kids' time with after-school programs or You know, I'm gonna get you into tutoring, I'm gonna get you into all these things because that is what's going to effectively make for a better college application. And if you're able to get into all of these things, then you're going to be successful. But essentially we've taken away the freedom and open space for kids to be kids, for kids to play. And by doing so, it's, it's, it's, it's seeped into all aspects, even in education. It's like, I need you to sit here and listen. It doesn't matter that your physical need is to get up and move and run around, because I need you to learn how to just sit here and listen. And when you can't do that— because 1 in 8 boys right now are getting overdiagnosed with ADHD. 1 in 8 boys are, are diagnosed with ADHD, right?

Which is probably, which is probably accurate, but they're giving them the drugs to suppress their creative, to suppress their desire for physical, you know, for actual fun.

And yeah, the, the thing I, the thing I want to share about that is because in most of the— most of the kids who get diagnosed with ADHD, it starts with a teacher talking to a parent saying your kid has trouble paying attention and sitting still in class. But here's the thing: does your kid care about the thing your teacher's talking about? And how long are they sitting there? And are they getting enough movement? Because if those things are not happening for the kid, I wouldn't want to sit there for 8 hours listening to you talk about things I don't care about. So even, even in education, you have options. You don't have to put them into public education. You can homeschool. There's unschooling. There is a lot of different schooling methods, but we're not actually— we— a lot of parents don't realize that there's choices. Right? It's, you know, and so I would encourage parents, well, I have these issues, to check those out.

I think they know that there's choices. I think they're, they're thinking public school or whatever school is the easiest path for them because they're— the others require a bit of sacrifice. And, and it might— so some of it might be just fear of the unknown, fear of, uh, you know, it's kind of overwhelming to say I have to teach all these subjects. I don't know anything. I barely passed school myself. I'd like— I, I am not trained to be a teacher. And that is zero part of the requirement for homeschooling. You don't need to. You do what the teachers do. They have a teacher's guide there that teaches you how to teach that subject for the day or that lesson for the day. Um, so you don't have to be classically trained in it.

Yeah. And even there's— if you choose homeschooling as a route, there's, um, Homeschooling Has Homeschool Group Meetups, right? You don't have to be the one to figure it out, and you're not alone.

Tons of them. It's a huge community. What are— so that was one of the things that, you know, I didn't want my kids to be socially awkward when we first looked at homeschooling. I didn't want them to be that weird kid because that's the— that is the like number one thing everyone says about homeschooling. Well, we don't want to be socially awkward. I am telling you, so in Florida— Florida's got a huge homeschooling community— our kids were so much more social than the public school kids and the private school kids. I am talking tenfold, tenfold, that They played with so many kids day in and day out, it blew my mind. I did— I was starting to wonder when they were schooling because they were going out meeting other homeschool families, going out to the beach and having fun. They had, um, a homeschool basketball class in the middle of the day, um, where one of the homeschool dads kind of got together, kind of did what you did a little bit. There's a little bit of life lessons in there as a Christian organization, and then they actually did basketball drills and basketball games in schools. There was a Wild and Free on Fridays where one of the dads or moms would go out and they would take kids on nature walks and point out plants and things like that. But we would get together with— I had 3 boys— with like 50 to 60 other boys. And this was constant all the time. It wasn't just recess. It wasn't just lunch. It wasn't for a couple of hours after school. So when I say they— and plus the public schools in our county were suppressing that ability to communicate, laugh, have fun. Go to recess, have PE, those kind of things. Um, even talking in the lunchroom, 10 times at least more social, um, better at making friends, better at leaving friends and having— not having, um, what do you call that, separation issues or things like that. Uh, it, it was socially, it was actually a tremendous advantage over homeschool, which is the complete opposite of what anybody thinks and certainly what I expected.

Yeah, and that's usually the thing is that it's And, you know, you even led all of that off with, you know, people are afraid of— and it's the fear of the unknown, right? It's like, and I don't want to jeopardize my kids, uh, future in exchange for, you know, something that maybe— like, it feels some— for a lot of parents, it feels like a gamble. But the truth is that it's not.

If you're on the fence of it, or if you're thinking of it, I am telling you right now, homeschooling will give your kids such an advantage in life. They will be more critical thinkers. They will be I think they'll have an advantage in actual education because they're getting a one-on-one education. Even though you're not classically trained, I think that's a great misconception with teachers, that teachers really know their stuff. I've met with so many substitute teachers and other teachers where they're like, yeah, we're just reading the book, like the history, the history books. We read the books alongside with the children. That's about it.

Yeah, because teachers are told what to teach because to keep their job they have to make sure that their students are able to pass statewide exams. That's, that's part of the, that's part of the job, right? Is like, so it's not actually about education.

Yeah, it's not as difficult as you think. Um, in fact, it gave us so much time, and I've talked about this extensively, um, the amount of time it gave us was great. And sometimes for some families it's a sacrifice because usually that means one of the parents are going to stay home. Either dad or mom is going to work from home or change their work schedule so that they're working nights or different hours, weekends, whatever it is. Um, or one of them's just not working anymore, so we have to cut the lifestyle, um, a little bit. So we just don't spend as much. Maybe we downsize the house, uh, we, we don't have car payments, things like those. So we just, we make a sacrifice. But, uh, education-wise, I think homeschool kids that I have met and seen actually come out knowing material ahead and retaining it much longer than public school kids, because it's not just forced. It like you actually come to a clear understanding of it. So we jumped off on a homeschool tangent. All that was kind of started with the exercise factor of let's make sure we're exercising, we're actually getting outside and playing, we're actually, you know, if you have trampoline, trampoline, parkour is a great example. You were talking about, um, uh, getting permission to jump on the couch. We certainly had that house. You could jump on the couch in our house, you could roll over it, you could throw the pillows on the floor and do the lava The floor is lava, jump pillow to pillow to pillow. Um, you know, we had nice stuff that you couldn't break. We couldn't throw balls in the house, weren't playing t-ball in the house or anything like that. Uh, but you know, there was an element of, it's not the perfect home. We're not trying to create this, this Instagram image of perfection and beauty and all the time. It's not perfectly clean all the time. There are not bugs, there's not filth and things like that. It's just, you know, stuff is laying around, toys are around. Um, the couch can be jumped on and That's what I like about your program. You're bringing that into the home to where we can kind of utilize—

to the degree that the parent is, is comfortable with it, because that's actually part of the kid learning responsible decision-making, is have like— I want you to make sure— like, we, we start off our class with, I promise to stay safe, to try my best, and to not destroy my parents' house. Right? Like, that's how we always start our class with the kids, and then we get into conversations. Like, yeah, because it's this, like, have you— is it okay to use your couch? Right? Like, because if you enter into a conversation, then you're actually teaching them, you know, this is respect, right? Like, if you have a mom that's like, don't jump on my couch, well then, okay, Mom, that's fine. Um, what can I use? Right? Like, to be able to, to enter into that conversation versus, well, come on, it's not fair, right? Like instead of what can I do and just flip that around to the kid, for the kid to actually get practice having those conversations, that is meaningful because it, they're not going to be prepared for what they don't practice. And if we protect them from everything, then they're not gonna be prepared for when they get older. So the more that they practice these conversations that are gonna make a difference. Then they're more set up for success. And, you know, it doesn't— so it doesn't matter, like, you choose to be in public or private, or you choose not, uh, unschooling, or you choose, you know, a Montessori, or you choose whatever, whatever school system it is. It's like, well, what can we teach our kids to take personal responsibility for their education, for the choices they make, for the words they say, for.

Did you listen to the podcast we just posted last week?

No.

Uh, oh, you should. One of the, one of the legends in personal accountability, uh, we had, uh, John Miller. Uh, he wrote the, the book QBQ, and if you haven't read that, great book to read. Uh, they have, they have a parenting version of it, um, uh, Raising Accountable Kids. Um, but it's all about, all about reframing exactly what you're talking about, just reframing that, that thought process.

Yeah, and it's actually freeing, right? It's, it's, um, oh, gives you control, um, and, and the kid, right? Yeah, it puts, it puts them in the driver's seat. And then consequences, for example, are no longer, you know what, mom and dad are unfair. Actually, no, if we can tie it to what did you choose, well, this is, this is the consequence of those choices, right? And so it's, it's this, how do we frame the conversation for our kids so they understand that they have control. And because they're— because they do, it's the truth. They do have control of over their actions. It's when they make poor choices that then we get involved, right? Sure.

And they're gonna— and they are— listen, they're going to make those poor choices. They are not going to be able to take personal accountability and learn that lesson day one and just have it for the rest of their lives. That's something that— hey, we talked about this earlier— modeled by dad, modeled by mom at home, learning. Because that's a great way to learn. And that's a struggle sometimes for mom and dad.

And then we're going to get it wrong, right? And we're going to get it wrong. And can we show them what it's like when you get something wrong, how to apologize to somebody? Because often parents don't have to, so they don't. They're like, well, I'm your superior and I use the USA, right?

It's smart to model that, um, a little humility, uh, certainly apologizing, uh, creating clarity, teaching those lessons, saying I was wrong because this This is how I reacted. I shouldn't have reacted. This is how I should have reacted.

Yeah. Do you forgive me? What can I do to make up for it? Yeah.

Oh, great. Oh, great. Wonderful thing. So you do this out of people's living room?

Well, yeah. So we do our, uh, we have our Kong Kids Worldwide, which is a movement program for kids, especially for if you're a homeschooler or if you are a, you know, kid at home and you need your kid to move, or you're a mom that's like I need to make dinner, I need 20 minutes, right? Like I, I need some, I can you do something? And you want them to have some healthy form of screen time. This is a good option for them. And then they can play in the living room. But really what we're, we're really focusing on right now is helping parents develop the skills and the toolkit they need for, to be able to create that stability that we were talking about, right? What is it to create rules, routines, consequences? How do I stick with them? How do I deal with emotional disruptions? Things that parents are not trained in, but educators have a lot of practice in. So what really, what we're doing right now is bringing those concepts to parents in a simple way so they don't have to figure out like, ah, I lost it again and now I feel guilty about making the wrong choices. Or, you know, uh, the, you know, um, so that's really how we're trying to step in and help parents and, families. So that's great.

Well, listen, I appreciate you coming on the show. Uh, you know, we're pushing up on that 45-minute mark. I don't like to run them much past that. So if you have any final thoughts, want to direct people towards your, your site or anything you have going on, this would be the time.

Yeah. Um, if you're interested in learning more about what we do, um, our website is kongacademy.org, and we have our Thriving Kids Parenting course that we are uh, that we just launched this week. And so if you want to get in on checking that out at its early price, then please do so because it really makes a big difference for families.

And what is the Thriving Kids Parenting Course? What does that entail?

Um, that helps parents set up their kids for success and by creating stability where parents can learn rule or develop their own rules from their personal—

so that's gonna be like a step-by-step— is it literature step-by-step on how to create these rules and consequences and discipline in the household?

Yep, yep. It's an online step-by-step program that, you know, you can put 20 minutes aside for, for a few weeks, and then you've got yourself set up, uh, for the next, you know, 10 years. So cool.

Great. That's awesome. All right, well, listen, Kurt, appreciate you coming on. Thank you. Enjoy your day in Seattle.

Yeah, uh, enjoy, um, yeah, enjoy Do you remember where I am? Oklahoma City.

There you go.

All right, have a good one. Take care. Bye-bye.

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