100% Dad- Interview with Dads- Episode 2- Louie Boulier

This is gonna be podcast number 2, and I realized the first podcast was not great. That whole style we're not gonna continue to do. I didn't like it, nobody else liked it, so we're gonna kind of reformat, reformat the way we do podcasts at 100% Dads. The podcasts are gonna be interviews with dads. We're gonna take real-life dads and that have real life issues, and we're just going to sit down and talk about dad-related things the whole time. You know, today we got Louis Boyer here in St. Augustine, good friend of mine. We're going to talk on a range of subjects going from providing for your family, insurance, divorce, getting fired. We sit down for about an hour and have some talks. These podcasts are just going to get better and better. You know, we appreciate your feedback from them. And if you want to be on it, if you want to be one of the dads that get interviewed, just email me, Townsend@TownsendRussell.com. We'd love to have you on. With no further ado, here is podcast number 2, interview with dads for 100% Dad with Louis Boyer and Townsend Russell.

I will say that, and it was kind of funny that you asked me to do this because as a dad, I think one of the things I have a hard time with It's just the— well, I think it's probably most dads. You probably, you do this, you have your own business, and like the stress of like providing for your family. And like, I think, I think probably more lately people talk about that more, um, and kind of just the stress of having to work, make sure you're providing. And now I feel like 50 or 60 years ago, all everybody ever talked about was providing, whereas now I feel like that's been forever.

I mean, you had to. You go back to the old days, you had to work that hard on the farm then to provide over winter, because if you didn't, you just lost your farm.

Yeah, and then I think like now you kind of have the added— and I don't think it's a bad expectation, I, I kind of feel like it's probably the most important part of being a dad— is spending that time with your kids and instilling in them kind of what your beliefs and your values are, which I don't think a lot of older people probably because mom did that. Yeah, because mom did that. And that's kind of a weird conversation I have probably with my father-in-law because he's— I think he's like late 60s. He is an ER doctor. And he— it's funny when we like interact because like Amanda, Amanda's like— Amanda's thing is like she was essentially like her mom was a single mom. Like her dad worked 24-hour shifts. He'd be gone all the time. When he was home, he was sleeping. He didn't bother him while he was sleeping, and kind of that was his way.

Because he wasn't a normal doc, he was— he's an ER doctor, but like transferred between like covered other— like not the same.

He didn't initially, um, he was at one main hospital in Xi'an for I think for like 5 or 6 years. I'm actually not sure what the time period was, but he was at the same hospital, and then he ended up getting fired from that hospital, which me and him kind of got into a conversation about, and it's kind of Funny that you asked me to do this because I'm super stressed out because I actually just got fired.

Stop it.

No, I swear to you. Yeah, so, oh well, maybe fired is a bad word for it. Um, I guess laid off because I'm still getting paid. I'm getting paid for some of my time. Happened on Tuesday last week.

Yeah, is it immediate or like it's coming?

Um, well, I'm not there anymore.

Do you want me to cut this up like Cut that part out.

Well, it's not a secret, like, everybody there already knows I'm not there. Like, I left in the middle of the day. And there's obvi— like, I don't— I probably wouldn't want to get into the specifics of why it happened, because I don't want anybody to have negative things about me, because I don't think it was anything necessarily negative.

I thought you guys had a really good relationship.

And that's part of the hard part of it, is me and him are really good friends. Um, like I knew him from church before. Like, he was my sponsor for Cursillo. Um, so it wasn't— I, like I said, I won't get in the specifics of the conversation, but it was obviously like he was super emotional in it. I was really emotional. Um, it was more of like, I don't know, the directions he's wanting to go he doesn't think I can do. And to be honest with you, I don't know if I want to.

Yeah.

And that's kind of been my struggle Probably more than anything over the past like 2 years, because me and Amanda honestly, probably about— actually, I can tell you the exact date because I remember because I looked at a file on my computer. Last February to like April, had a lot of conversations about me leaving. Um, and really just because it wasn't really suiting like where we wanted our lives to go. Yeah. Like, I was there. I feel like it's different. You probably work like 50, 60 hours a week, right? Probably more than that.

On a slow week.

Yeah, it's like, but you own your business.

But I get to bounce home for lunch if I need to.

Correct. It's your business, so like, you could probably have 2 meals a day with your kids.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's also the advantage of homeschooling. We won't get into that right now though. Yeah. But like, you have that advantage, whereas I wasn't the owner. I was getting paid a salary. It was a good salary for what I was doing, but like, there wasn't much equity in the situation for me. And I was at the point with him where the only real step there was for me to go would be to have equity in the company and to be there that many hours. To me, Amanda had talked a lot about, about like, if I change careers, what would I do? Where would I kind of want to go? Where were my strengths in? And kind of like stuff like that. So as much as it sucks to be terminated, I think from anywhere, with Colfax, pretty much what happened, um, I kind of prepared myself for it. Is that weird as that might sound?

Like mentally or like financially?

I think like financially I'm not in a super bad spot. We're selling our house right now. We were selling our house prior to this happening anyway. Um, we're buying another house, but even with buying that house we'll end up with a good amount of— we just got an offer on our house today too, but that's the second offer we've had on our house. But even with moving into the new house and having a higher mortgage payment and stuff like that, we'll still have a good amount of money saved. So that's good. And I am still getting paid through him. That was kind of part of the thing when we were talking. It was like a severance kind of— yeah, I'm getting paid for like another couple months, so that's awesome. So if I find another job in the next 6 weeks, I'll actually be getting like 2 paychecks at once, which is pretty sweet. Um, you get to pocket away a little money for Christmas. But, but I had made it really big when me and Amanda were talking about me leaving there and what I would do. I'd kind of made— I had that thing in it. I don't know if it's the same with you because you have a business and it's your business. Do you get sucked into like Is this like a huge part of you? Like when somebody asks you about you, do you automatically go to like, "Yeah, I sell coffee." Now, or like when I was going to start it? I don't know, how about both?

When I got it started, no, I barely even drink coffee. Ryan drank coffee.

Yeah.

No, not at all, I just saw a void in the market and took that. Now it's become me. Yeah, like I spent so much time on it, it's such a part of our world, it's what's provided for us that yeah, it is very much me, but that could have been pantyhose. Yeah, it could have been anything, a t-shirt company, a piano company, whatever. You just, you put that much time, effort, and love into making something grow. I mean, it's like a baby, you know, even if it's the ugliest thing in the world, it's you, you're proud of it, and it's such a big part of you.

Ugly baby.

It's, it's just true.

Like, yeah. And that, when me and her started having the discussions about moving there, before I'd kind of, I like really thought about it because I was like, man, I'm like, this is like everything. Like, it's my social life. Yeah, it's, I spend more time there when than I do with my family, especially at that time. It wasn't that bad probably for the past like 6 to 8 months.

I think that's every guy though. I mean, your work is such a large portion of your life, like Yeah, and it— hour, your waking hours.

I mean, yeah, and that was the struggle for me, man. And I, when me and her had the conversations and I was kind of like, man, I, I had been just so wrapped up in being there all the time. I was like, I didn't really— I feel like I didn't really have anything outside of work besides family. Like, I had family and I didn't really have anything outside of that. Occasionally, like, hang out with some friends that I used to hang out with all the time before I had kids. But when you have kids, kind of like sucks up so much of your time. Um, but it just becomes such a big part of me that at that point I was kind of like, man, what, like, what do I have outside of this? And if I were to do something different, like, is that gonna be hard for me? And I kind of, I started like sitting down and was like, you know, if I didn't have Mellow, what would be like my perfect day? And not like super cheesy, like I want to sit at the beach all day and not do anything, but like if I had like a perfect, like day, like a normal—

what kind of job? How could you make money and be happy with your everything?

Correct. And I came from a pretty poor background, so I don't have like high expectations, as horrible as that sounds to say.

But like, that has nothing to do with expectations, that's just what makes you content.

Correct.

And then maybe your perspective gives you a contentment level where you're just happy. Maybe things don't bother you.

Yeah, lifestyle doesn't bother you. Maybe be better, like What about my day would make me more fulfilled? Maybe that'd be a better way to say it. So I started thinking about stuff like that.

What was it?

Damn, it's super simple, man. It sounds crazy. Amanda, I made the list one day. I was just sitting there and I was like—

I'm a simple dude.

Yeah, and I was like, Amanda, I was like, man, I made this list and I thought it was gonna take me so much time. And she's like, what's on it? And I'm like, I wish I probably still have it. It's probably, it's not in this planner. I have another planner. But I wrote it out and it was literally like, Have 2 meals with the family, which sounds weird to some people that don't understand that, but like probably people that don't have kids probably don't understand that one. Have 2 meals with my family a day, which sounds weird, but it's like a good time to kind of just sit down.

I don't think it's weird at all.

Yeah, like, but I think there's—

that's just such real quality time.

Yeah.

Oh, you mean—

and you're not interrupted by anything. You don't have TV on. My kids hate it because I turn the TV off when dinner starts. Like, Why do you have to turn your TV off? Because like, we don't need to pay attention to TV. Like, we're—

it's a bit— Oh, back when I was a kid, you weren't allowed to pick up the phone either. Back when everyone had landlines, you had that, you know, 90-foot cord on the wall.

Yeah. Like, just don't answer it. So like, have— spend time with the kids, 2 meals a day with the family. One was do something creative, which Amanda thought— was very surprised by because we have very different definitions of creative. Because I'll—

Yeah, what do you mean by creative? Like, are you talking about like art or are you talking about like build stuff with your hands? Paint!

Like, I think building stuff would be— I think physical activity. I actually had physical activity as like a separate one. So just doing something that was like physically challenging. I like to work out. And the other one was have a glass of whiskey and read a book. It was super simple, like nothing crazy. Like that was—

Well, none of that has anything to do with work. That's your work schedule.

Correct. And that was why we—

I guess a few things could be a physical activity.

Well, and that was the thing, like the discussion was like—

You could be a whiskey taster professionally.

Yeah. But, which is funny because I don't drink as much whiskey as I used to, but I still love drinking it. But just kind of like what are the components of my day that would make me happy and like Is there a job that I could like work around that? And I kind of like just left it alone. Like I made the list and then just forgot about it and then kind of like made steps towards doing other stuff to be more fulfilled, spending a little bit more time reading the Bible and with church. I started doing jiu-jitsu, which was super challenging, kind of gave me a social network, gave me a social network outside of work. It gave me a time where I wasn't with the family and I was with some other people that kind of had similar goals and what they were trying to do.

Exert that physical energy.

Exert that physical energy, kind of take out the— if you have any aggression from your day, you can kind of—

Challenge the brain, just learn it, perfecting techniques.

Ah, it's so hard.

Getting your belt loose.

I wish I could say it was easy, but it's not. Yeah, getting choked out a lot. What is it, simulated murder? Like over and over and over again.

See, I would not like that. I like being on the giving end, but like—

Ah, it's— man, it's— the thing I really like about it, and it sounds weird to say to people, is it kind of makes you okay with feeling dumb sometimes. Because you're dealing with people that are way more skilled than you are, and you're having to admit that somebody is better at something than you. And it gives you— well, it gives you the hope that you're like, I know if I keep coming, I can do what they're doing, but for right now, I just have to accept that they're better than me, and I'm gonna have to figure out like little goals and little wins. So it's like, okay, let's not let them armbar me today. You choked me last time, we're gonna avoid that choke. We're not gonna let you choke me like this time.

Start them at the bottom.

Probably gonna find a different way. So you've never done jiu-jitsu with them before? I've never done any wrestling or anything.

Oh, see, okay.

Did you like wrestling?

Yeah, I wrestled in college.

Did you really? Yeah. I didn't know. You said it like I'm supposed to know that.

I thought everyone did.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, West Virginia University.

No, I didn't know that. Was it a scholarship?

No, I wasn't that good. So I was really good in Florida. Yeah. I think I have almost all the records as I was in high school. I was one of the top wrestlers in the state. I got knocked out by mono my senior year. Yeah. But I think I lost like— I had over 100 wins. I think I lost like 2 matches my last 2 years.

Oh, wow.

So I was really good. I was hoping to get a scholarship there, but I didn't even finish my senior campaign, so that was a long shot. And Florida is not a wrestling— like, none of the Florida colleges have wrestling. None of them in Georgia, like, the South is just not wrestling.

Football.

So I went up to West Virginia. I had met with the coaches my junior year. Like, we'd gone up there and did visit with them and talk to the wrestling coach, and I made the team.

Yeah.

So they had never actually cut before, and my first year, late, somebody could come out and they actually cut them all. But I made that. I got injured a bunch, and my freshman year was the first year of the Olympic training program was always in Colorado Springs.

Yeah.

And they split it off, and so there are two of them There was Morgantown at WVU and Colorado Springs. So we had the guys trying to make the Olympics there, which was one of my— this super tatted up guy. I don't know his credentials or anything. I think he took like third in the Olympic trials the last time the Olympics was around back then. He just, I mean, to the level I could not compete with him.

Yeah.

Was just like, we'd be wrestling, he'd be coaching me, he's like, you're projecting. And I'm like, Like, how am I projecting? He's like, I can tell when you're shooting. I'm like, I know what it means. Like, you know, we walk through it, I'm like, I don't even feel it. So I hung my weight with some of them, I got my tail kicked by some of them. Um, but yeah, I just, I, I didn't even— well, I dropped out of my sophomore year, so I never finished. Um, yeah, I just didn't have that drive, motivation.

Plus all the athletes there were just That's kind of probably the one rough thing about it is there's a bunch of people in there that wrestled. So like even the people that have wrestled have some—

They have knowledge.

But it's funny because I'm a pretty physical person, I always have been. So like it makes me feel better when somebody's like, oh, so like, uh, you wrestled before, right? I'm like, nah, not at all. And they're like, oh, you have like good balance and good body awareness when you're in situations. You're an athlete. Well, I've done like baseball, I played football.

Well, you do those mud runs and things like that, I remember.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have pretty good body awareness.

I'm not—

I'm— I would assume probably for weight. I'm not that weak. I'm sure there's people a lot stronger than me, but whatever.

This is cool.

But no, so I've been like trying to like—

so back to what kind of jobs were you thinking of switching to before?

Um, that was always the conversation before and post, because now it's getting real. Yeah, so pre was kind of like conversations of like what would be cool to do. And like, what's that?

Like, what came up when we talked then?

In that, I think then it was such an abstract conversation that we never really nailed anything specific down. And then when we started to discuss, now that it was like a real thing, like for real real, um, and me and Amanda had so much time together because I've just been home, and we like had a couple date nights, so we've kind of like had time by yourself, just sit there and hash stuff out. You know, it's kind of like trying to think what plays to my strengths and like at my job, what was I good at? Probably the hardest thing about being in a restaurant, and I'm sure— man, I know when people do like restaurant reviews, they don't take this into account, like 80 to 90% of your staff doesn't care about their job. Like, it sounds horrible to say, servers are usually better, but it's kind of because there's a main— there's Yeah, there's a very— so they're there, concrete thing. They're good to their table, their table's gonna tip them more.

Everyone else is there for your kitchen.

You can motivate your kitchen as much as you want, and you can kind of tell them what your expectations are. You can pump them up, and if you have the right personality for it, you can kind of get them happy about their night and kind of like get them going. But like, if you don't have that person in that, in that spot— and that's kind of something I would notice if I was in the kitchen, like if I a kitchen shift, it'd be a very different tone than some other people would be in a kitchen shift. Yeah, really, just because I would kind of try to make it fun. It's like, okay, you're getting paid $9 to $10 an hour. Some of them getting paid $11 to $12, but most of them, they're starting out, they're 16, 17, making $9, $10 an hour. Yeah, they're high school kids. They're not like— you get that one or two that are like super happy about a job and they want to, they want to do the best job they can possibly do and you like really groom those kids. But otherwise, like, if you're not on top of like, hey, that was really good looking pizza, good job. Like, hey, like, you're moving kind of slow, hahaha, let's race and make a pizza together. Like, there's certain things you can do to kind of motivate people and make it like a little bit more enjoyable experience, especially when you're busy. Um, but you have a lot of people that you're just like, you're just sifting through people. And in St. Johns County, that The unemployment rate's super low, so it's hard to get that, the lower price end labor. Yeah, it's really hard, and it's gone up so much. Like, when I started there, we started people at $8.50 an hour.

Listen, your audio is fine. We made a mistake. Our main mic pickups, uh, didn't end up saving, so we're using our backup audio for now on. Like I said, we're getting better at this podcast thing, but, uh, don't freak out. The audio changed a little bit. That's on our end, not yours. Back to the show.

I started getting to the point where I was starting people $10 an hour, and then like you go to Panda Express and they got a sign on the window, they're hiring at $11, $11.50 an hour, and you're like, dude, like, I wish it was like this when I was in high school.

Me and Bobby said that.

But it's hard. And so like when me and Amanda started talking, it was like, what were the things that I was really, really good at in my job? And what were the things that I was kind of like not bad at but weren't— wasn't the greatest. And kind of trying to work more towards my strengths than weaknesses. Like, I can work. I could work 80 hours a week and it's a breeze. Like, I can do it. Like, I can work on no sleep. Like, I can— like, the work ethic is there. I will hustle over anybody, no issue. Harder now with kids. And wanting to spend time with my family, but if I have to, I can do it. Right. But besides that part, like, what are my strengths? And kind of when me and her were talking, I'm really good at— I'm good at talking to people, good at talking to tables and customers when they would come in, really good at making, making somebody comfortable with me in a friendly way and kind of having them open up to me.

So what field does that translate to?

That was kind of the hard part, man. And I, you know, we— I spent a lot of time like to get all like Jesus on you, but I spent a lot of time in prayer and kind of trying to figure it out because that's kind of, I think, always our struggles, like, you know, where is God leading us and what's kind of the path that he wants us to go down. Started reading Bible a lot more and kind of trying to pay attention, be a little bit more self-aware. When I started talking about the interpersonal stuff, I was like, okay, I'm really good at talking to people. What's something that I like doing? I like being really physical. I like I like doing those Spartan races. I like doing stuff that challenges me physically. I like doing that with other people and kind of getting them involved in it. Personal training popped in my head, but personal training is a really rough career path. Yeah. And you start out super low and kind of, you really got to work and you got to huddle and you got to make.

The good news is that's like a good thing to start as a side gig.

Correct.

But then you take away from the family time.

Yeah.

But you can build up. Clientele that way.

And that was something we kind of talked about.

And every one of these gyms will hire you on the spot because you're a 1099 contract. They're like, great, oh yeah, you can have anytime you want, just come in and bring— I'll try not to bring during these class times, but yeah, you've got a client, yeah, bring them in.

Yeah. And that was the thing, like, I was like, man, you know, that could work out and that'd be something to be cool. But I was like, you know what, kind of want something that's similar to that, that has something that's a little bit more reliable work-wise and kind of has a guided path, because honestly, any job I've ever had hasn't had like a set path. Like, I worked for my dad, and what he does, hot dog vending.

So you've been in food forever?

Yeah, I was a dog. I, I remember, as illegal as this is, I remember being like 14 years old and doing a car— like, you know, I like, uh, so like car places, like car dealerships. Yeah, they'll have like a member's day where if you bring your car in, they have like food for you and stuff.

Stuff.

Well, they all have, they all have snack bars now. This is before that. So this is— I was 14, that would have been what, '96, '95? I was like '96, '95, somewhere around there. Like, I remember like my dad being like, you want to do a hot dog giveaway? And I was like, how much does it pay? And he's like, $50. I was like, what do I do? Like, you stand there for 3 hours and you give hot dogs away. $50? Yeah, do it. Um, so I was doing those when I was like 14. I worked at hot dog cart when I was like 15. It's not illegal. Ah, at 14? No, by yourself?

A little bit.

With a, with a gas propane hot dog cart?

I refuse to believe that at any—

well, we'll see when your kids get 14. If it's a family business, it's different. There's different laws.

Yeah, I mean, maybe if you're doing 80 hours, but— or it was in the middle of a school day.

So if you were— I don't remember, it was like 14 and he was just like, here you go, dude. He was like, drop me off with the hot dog cart and left me there for 3 hours, which is funny because I I can't imagine without my kids, but, but I was— I started doing—

come on, that's a nice rate.

Oh yeah, I guess I'll give you that. Yeah, I don't know, my daughter's 10 now, man. I mean, weird.

Ride my bike from the island all the way down the island.

Me and Amanda were just talking not that long ago about how I used to ride my bike across East Colonial in Orlando, like 50, State Road 50, when I was like 9. Like, I remember sneaking out and like riding my bike like 2 miles, crossing that 4-lane highway.

His parents got in circles.

My mom was in there, but my mom was at work. But, um, but now I was trying to think of like something that's kind of similar that has a setback, because I worked for my dad. We opened a restaurant together. I kind of got tired of working a family business.

I don't know if you've ever worked in a family business, but you haven't heard my stories.

No, it's some drama. So I kind of was like tired of that, and then And then I had gone to culinary school, stopped going to culinary school, started going to college, went back to culinary school, finished culinary school, and then my first job was . Really? Outside my dad, besides like Walmart and some retail jobs, like my first like job. So I worked there for 5 years before I worked at , and then I worked at for 6 and a half years. So I've had other jobs, like I worked at Walmart, worked at. I wouldn't say I had another job somewhere. I don't remember. I had like some side retail jobs for like extra money. Yeah. Um, but like I've always been in the food industry. It was kind of just my thing. Um, but I was trying to find something outside of that, and my searches, like, I was like, all right, well, like physical therapy is kind of cool, but I'm like, I know people have done physical therapy and it's like, it's kind of turn and burn situation. A lot of them are kind of you're stuck in a clinic where you're doing like 2 to 3 clients at once.

Yeah, well, I think the schooling behind that, I would think, would be intense.

It depends on what you're doing. There's a couple— there's different options.

If you're a physical therapist, obviously a physical therapist is going to be some serious school.

There's two. Well, you have, you have the physical therapist, which is you go for your master's, and then you have physical therapist assistant, is an AS, um, which you can do your AS and and then work your way up. But then the one that kind of popped up, which was odd because I wasn't really searching for it and I don't know why it popped up, was occupational therapist. Um, which I didn't know exactly what an occupational therapist does. Um, but it's kind of like along the same lines as physical therapist except for you probably— you're thinking of hands.

Yeah.

Okay, so there's ortho occupational therapy. I've literally been researching this for like 3 days. Okay. So if you like post this on something where people make comments and they say I'm wrong, I probably am wrong. It's just like, it's like so, so many comments that I say something wrong, that's fine. But like, um, so there's a couple options in that you can like work your way up and get like your master's and you can get a doctorate and all that stuff in it. But, um, basically you're preparing people to do like everyday stuff. So if somebody gets into a car accident and they mess their hands up, you're kind of helping them do things that they would be doing. Doing on a normal daily basis. So like, how are they going to get dressed? What are ways they can work around their hands or their fingers being messed up? What are options they could do? It's functional. It's, it's made— it's helping somebody get back to their daily life and how they can go through their daily routine when they have an injury that's probably going to last the rest of their lives. So there's some, there's some like therapy and psychology.

So it's a more specific aspect of physical therapy?

Correct. Different fields, I'm sure. People in those fields probably argue about it, but I'm not in there right now. Um, but it's something kind of cool that I was like, man, I'm like, that's something super fulfilling. I kind of have a path I could work on it. I'm not even sure if it's what I want to do yet, it's just something I've looked at for the past few days. Um, but it's fulfilling, it's something physical, it's helping people, and there's a path on which if I get good at it, I can continue education and lead up to something a lot bigger, whereas in the restaurant, education competes with that goal of family time. Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And that's the discussion right now, is how to work that balance. Is it, is it worth it to get a job now that I know I can, I can do? And not whatever job I get right now, it's not going to be emotionally draining as fuck was. Yeah, I was, I was the general manager. I hired people, inputted information, I did payroll.

Like, from the opening, I mean, you were all in there.

Yeah, I did a ton of stuff in the opening. So like, towards the end, honestly, the past year and a half, 2 years is probably easier because there's so much stuff I did in the first 2 to 3 years that kind of made the past couple years easier. Yeah, like running reports for things and things like that, I kind of already had set up. And just the rhythm of it, like, I could do stuff half the time a lot of other people could do because I've done it so many times. Um, but that's kind of the, the struggle right now is whether spending a couple years of working and trying to go back to school is worth the loss of fam time to have more family time. Yeah, it's tough. And it's because I could do it, dude. I could Given my background, I could, I could find a job. I could find a job like that. Like, I could find a job doing pretty similar to what I was doing, probably not making as good of money, but having the ability to make as much money as I was in a couple of years.

Um, so I mean, there's no panic about providing, there's just simply what kind of lifestyle and where will that lead.

Yeah, yeah. And that's, it's tough, man. I think, I think this is something dads have a hard with. And I— and it's stressful. Like I said, I feel a little bit better about it because we had talked about it before, and I tried to not make my identity fuck, which is hard too because even now, I— dude, I've seen people in the past week that don't know that happened. They're like, oh, we were like just fuck, man, everything was awesome. I'm like, oh cool, I'm glad it was good. You didn't see me there. But it's tough, and like obviously that's going to happen for— that's probably happened for like a few months.

That might be longer than that.

Yeah, and trying to prepare because Amanda's like, how are you going to do with that? And I was like, ah, I was like, I don't have choice. I'm like, I know. And that's like the— that's probably the funniest thing, like even talking to her dad and stuff, and it's like, well, what are you going to do if somebody asks this? I'm like, well— and then that was the other thing too, is with being an owner and having that discussion go the way it did, and people were like, well, like, well, you didn't try to say anything. I'm like, what is there for me to say? Yeah, like, no, like, there's, there's no disagreeing. Like, it's regardless of whether it was made up. Yeah. And knowing, like, I'm sure he has his reasons for it, and we didn't get too in-depth in it, um, for obvious reasons. Like I said, both of us got kind of emotional just discussing it because we've been friends for a long time. I'm sure that made it a lot harder for him. And then me being as big a part of that place as I was and like, I, I don't want—

are they going through a shift company-wise?

He is.

So because they're opening up a second one, aren't they?

And he's opening up like 2 more.

Yeah, because I would have thought pretty close, like the stress on management's about to come because he's probably gonna split a few off into the new one.

And there was 2 people that were leaving that were gonna leave to go to that opening and then one of the people from that opening was gonna go on to do administrative work for him outside of Mellow. So they were gonna—

Oh yeah, because there's a corporate entity that owns them all.

Yeah, corporation owns everything. So, you know, I don't really know what they're gonna do. I know of the—

1, 2, 3, 4—

there were 6 of us. Of the 5 of them, one person is capable of doing what I was doing. They don't want to do it. I know, like, I know, like, I'd ask them if you open another one whether they'd want to, because I know they don't want to. One person could be capable of it, but they're not prepared for it, could do it, but they were the person who's going to leave to go to the other one.

Okay.

But the other one's not opening for like a year.

Oh geez.

Yeah, so it's got plenty of time. He can figure it out, and who knows, maybe one time he'll like ask me for like some— I don't know, it might come down to sometime asking me to help out with stuff, which is knowledge-wise, because I know a lot of—

so the split was relatively amicable?

It was amicable. And I'm— man, I'm not— I'm not by nature an angry person. And like, I have— that's a word— I have enough self-awareness to kind of go outside myself and like kind of look at the situation and not get super emotionally involved in it. And kind of probably why I don't get as angry. So I can look at it from an outside perspective and be like, okay, I understand why he's doing this. I might not agree with it, but if we're at this point, obviously he kind of feels that's the direction he needs to go.

He had a perspective that I'm putting, or I'm vibing, putting off or whatever.

Yeah, and that, and like I said, man, when it happened, I was kind of like When I went home, because we're staying with our in-laws right now because we're selling our house, our house is empty.

Yeah.

And I like told them and they were like, what? And then my father-in-law was like, what happened? And I'm like, to be honest, does it really matter? I was like, at this point, I'm like, you know, I could sit here and me and Amanda could like bash and argue about all the things that could have been done differently on his end. But none of that is going to be constructive in moving forward and kind of getting out of it.

Plus politically, you want the recommendation.

Yeah, for sure. And that's like my thing. I'm like, man, like, you know, I've, I've had to terminate people that I want to terminate before. I'm like, it sucks. I'm like, it's never— I don't, I don't feel like firing anybody. Anybody who says they love firing people— I know people like, oh, Donald Trump said like, I love firing people, which is full of crap. I've had— I've terminated 3 people that I was really good friends with. That weren't easy situations, man. And like, one of them was pretty cut and dry. Like, it was pretty— it was like some like maybe harassment stuff going on with other people, and it was kind of like, like, this is what it is, man. It sucks. Like, and even though it was like, it's an emotional situation. Like, it, it's, it's never— and those are people too that I knew would go on and like be fine, but still like It's just never enjoyable. I'm sure you know, I'm sure you've had that.

You know, I've only had to fire a couple people.

Really? They usually just stop showing up.

Hahaha. That just happened.

Those are the good— dude, those— you know what's funny? I've had probably like a half a dozen moments where I was like, all right, I guess we're at the point we're gonna have to terminate this person, like have the paperwork written up, and then they just stop showing up, and I'm like, all right, cool.

I'm like freaking clear and transparent of like what was done wrong, what was done not well.

Yeah.

And I just have like no filter on that.

Yeah. Like, I'm just like, see, I appreciate that, man. It sounds, it sounds crazy, and like, I honestly, like, one of the— this is so funny now talking about it— when I first started working, so I, I was a sous chef for a year, I supervised that cafe at Casa for about a year, and then I was I was— I started there as a houseman, so I started as like banquet setup. Banquet setup, so you set up tables and chairs. You get paid shit money to set up tables. Yeah, you're labor, you don't get paid well. You're with servers, you're making probably like $25 an hour. You're making like $9, especially there.

Yeah.

And then, I mean, I worked— I did that, and then when I was done with culinary school, I started as a banquet cook and then went from banquet cook to working on the line, which I did not want to do. Because I knew as soon as I left banquet cook, I would never go back. Like, I knew they wouldn't let me go back because I was like— it sounds cocky, but I was like, I knew I could do what they were doing on the line. And then as soon as I was like, I'm gonna end up over there and they're not gonna find somebody to replace me and I'm gonna get stuck, which I did. I started at it and just got sucked into it. It's like, oh well, it's slower for banquet, let's go over there and work. Like, all right, cool. Work salads for a year, salads and desserts, which Well, desserts would be fun. Yeah, it sounds fun, but like, ah, dude, that place, that was so manic. Like, you did— so you would get there at 3 o'clock, service opened at 5, you had 2 hours to prep for your station. So everybody prepped their own station. There's no prep cooks, prepped all your own stuff.

Salads, desserts, or—

am I done? Give me a second.

All right, take your time.

So, you know, there was the cafe, the cafe out front, right? Cafe serves food all day. You can order burgers, you can order steaks. You can order salads between 3 and 5. You would still be getting food from the cafe because the restaurant was closed. So while you were prepping for salad station, you were making burgers, you were making steaks, you were making salads too. Dude, it was insane. Like, it was the most— it was the craziest, like, stressful food I've ever been through. Ah, they did, but they didn't spend much time in there. It was just kind of like they had other duties. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was one of those, like, I was always— and it was funny because in that position I was really smart to always make my prep list. And I would like— you got to stab your tickets, so your tickets are sitting there. So I would be like working on a prep list and be like, 30 minutes till service, back. Look, I'm not done with anything. And they'd be like, what? I'm like, here's my stack of tickets I've been making, here's my prep list, this is what I've done. But I'm like, I can't do all of this at the same exact time. And, and you would get help, it wasn't And like, I really like the guys that I worked with there, but I did that for like a year. Kind of had to fight my way into working on the other part of the line. So like doing grill, doing expo, doing sauté. I kind of fought to make my way over there. Started doing that, and it was like kind of like a set line of things to get up to. But like, we never had to fire anybody there. Like, they wouldn't let us fire people there. Like, dude, you have no idea. HR, like, because they would like pay attention to the I feel like nothing from like high school life or even, I don't know, I did a few years of college, I didn't do a lot of college. High school life and college like tells you nothing about the things you have to do in your life. Yeah. Like at all.

100%.

Like everyone feels that way. Dude, it's like, I like, me and Aman have talked about like, can we just write a book on like things that adults have to do that nobody ever explains to you?

Like, yeah.

One, selling your house.

It's so common sense. It's almost amazing that they don't. It's like they are purposely avoiding it.

Like, oh, how do you sell a house? I don't know. My realtor was like, you don't know that? I'm like, how do I know that? You've been doing this for 15 years. Like, how am I supposed to know that? Oh, you have to have like this much extra. Oh, what is a binder? Oh, well, that's like the money you like— that's like promised in a contract. I'm like, well, do I lose that money if something happens? No. Okay, well then what's the point of that? Like, like, it's just like crazy things. Like, you don't, you learned at all. Um, but then like trying to like figure out your mortgage and then your insurance and your escrow, and like, you know, people that are in that business understand that stuff, but I'm like, they didn't their first time doing it. Yeah, but like, that was like me and Amanda, it was like we were like talking, I'm like, I don't— I'm like, we bought our house that we're in 13 years ago.

Yeah.

And we had a 3-inch binder. Uh, that's just new, right? We— Amanda had had a 3-inch binder. It wasn't your house. Had a 3-inch binder that had like every piece of paper we ever signed, and that was before like e-documents. So it was— you had— every time we had to sign something, we had to go in the office, sign paperwork, they'll make copies, you keep the copy, they keep the copy. Like it was just a way more of a more lengthy process than it is now. Now it's like, oh, they made an offer, we're gonna email it to you, go on to this e-sign document website, sign it with your finger, hit accept, document's done. Which is crazy that that's like a legal document now. Um, but we're like going through the stress of like trying to like sell our house, and they— which is even more important because our sale of our house fell through.

I remember.

But, and it— but now it's like—

and that was the helping thing to—

yeah. And now it's like, okay, well, we have an offer on a house, we're kind of in a different spot. Do we still try to get more money for it even though they're like lowballing us a little bit? Like, do you still try to like—

yeah, it's a little bit desperate there.

Yeah, you're like, do I— I don't want to take less money, but they're willing to talk to me one way or the other if I sell 4 months later versus now. Yeah, and it's like, ah dude, it's just like, like we got the offer and the man was like, I'm not happy about that at all. I'm like, I'm— pardon me, let's just be like, let's sign. Like, like that's sure money right there. Counter. Yeah, and you counter, but then there's always the fear they're gonna walk away. And it's like, and it, and it, it's funny right now because we're on both sides of it. So like with Amanda, like before we made the offer on the house across the street from you, like, how dare they lowball?

Now let's lowball them.

Yeah, I was like, Amanda, she was like pissed. I'm like, Amanda, in like 2 days we're about to do the same thing. These other people, well, that's, it's different. I'm like, I get it's different, but I'm like, you have to like, don't He can get so emotional about it because like when we— I love my wife and she's an amazing woman and like she has lots of patience with me, but like sometimes dude when she gets angry at people I'm like, "Ooh boy, I am so happy I'm not on the end of that one." I feel like she's got flair and theatrics inside of her. Oh, oh yeah, yeah, oh for sure. Like, it's one of those, like, I've kind of learned as a husband, if she's like really upset about something, just let it ride. Like, don't even— you never want to be like, oh baby, it'll be fine. What?

Guess what?

What? When? In our experience, in our what, 14 years, 13 years, be 13 years this year of marriage, like, what has ever made you think that saying it'll be fine is going to be a good help? And I'm like, you know, you have a really good point. Fine, I'm just gonna go ahead and leave you alone. I'm gonna go inside and like have a beer and like chill out. This was a funny one, the garbage disposal. The like inspector turned the garbage disposal on, I was like, man, that doesn't sound right. He's like, it's kind of loud. And I was like, yeah. And we like opened it up and I'm assuming this is a renter, it broke. Like there was a crack, there's a crack in the garbage disposal and it looks like somebody like epoxied it like over the crack because he was like, does that look like it's melted? And I'm like, I don't think it's melted. I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's glue. And he was like, what? And I'm like, yeah. He's like, that's probably like some Flex Seal or something that is sprayed on there and tried to get it. I was like, yeah, that's crazy. Um, but yeah, I don't know if this went in a weird direction because I lost my job.

It did, right? I just got floored, man, because I had no freaking clue.

Ah, it's kind of floored everybody, man. Probably coming from from a divorced family, that's probably the hardest part, is like—

and you had it later on in life.

Yeah, I was 13, I think, when my parents separated. I was 12 or 13 when they finally divorced. I was like an 8— I was like 14. I think it all happened pretty quick, but they weren't together for years. It wasn't like it was— I mean, when they officially separated, when they officially happened, I was older. But it's like different—

were there other siblings at different ages?

Yeah, I have 3 brothers. I'm One of three brothers. I'm the oldest.

Oh, so they were all younger.

They were all younger.

Yeah, so I feel like if you start getting those single digits, like, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, like, it affects those kids a lot more than, ah, you know, when they're teenagers.

I think in different ways, like, and like, as a young kid, like, because my— yeah, Anthony was probably 9, and then Andrew was probably 3. And it's kind of, it's funny to see our different perspectives there because of our ages. Because I had known my parents as my parents together up until a certain point.

Well, you saw home life dissolving or being troublesome. You're like, oh my gosh, like this sucks.

Yeah, absolutely. And it was a horrible divorce. Like, we think probably got worse up until I was like 18 or 19. Yeah, I think when I was 18 or 19, and I think at that point it kind of got a little bit worse because I, I got involved in it a lot just because of my age. Like, you're like the communicator between the parents and like, yeah, you kind of run into that. Not just necessarily say like either my parents were abusive, like there's stuff that happened, but like I was kind of the person that took the heat in the situation because I was the oldest of the siblings, and, uh, kind of made for some pretty rough situations. I'd probably write a book about it. It's pretty— now I look at it and it's like, like, there was stuff that happened that, like, my brothers talk about. It's actually— I'd probably be more interested in my brother's perspectives on it.

I'll say, I've seen it as an observer. Um, kids being used as pawns, dude, it's rough.

And I probably took a lot more heat than my brothers did in it just because But you were old enough to be able to be kind of used in that sense, man. It makes it rougher because you like fight back on those things. And it's— I remember me and my mom, and it's— I hate to like brag about my mom too, but like me and my mom got into an argument in the car one day because my dad— they had separated, they were divorced. My dad had a girlfriend and my mom was like talking smack about his girlfriend to like me and my brothers in the car.

Yeah.

And I was like, she's not that bad a person. Like, I remember just being like, she's not that bad a person. I was like, whap, smack across face. Don't would you ever defend her? Yeah, like, you have no idea. And I just remember being a kid, be like, what? Like, why? Like, dude, this is like—

I had some more dramas. I, I tried swinging so hard at my stepfather, like I was ready to murder, just like testosterone-fueled rage.

I see, dude. This is probably one thing I love that my mom did. My dad was not as good about this still to this day. Um, my mom didn't really date. Like, my mom dated down after my parents got divorced, but she would not— anybody that she was dating, she would not have around us, right? Uh, for a long time. Like, she would have to date somebody. She's remarried now.

Yeah, well, it all happened later.

Yeah, she didn't get remarried till I was 20. Oh no, no, I was like 18 or 19 when she got remarried because I've been married for a while now. But she like— I think I remember meeting two guys that she dated, and I know she dated more guys than that. Like, there was one guy she dated for a little bit, and then we started hanging out. She didn't like— she had a son. No, it would have been bad. Okay, I've written down that'd have been a rough situation, man. I can imagine that. Like, that's why I'm like super thankful for that, because like the one guy she dated for a little bit, she didn't like how he disciplined his son and said something to one of us when we were hanging out time, and she was just like, cut him off. And then we actually ended up living with one of her boyfriends for a little bit, but it was, it was for a shorter time. I don't think it was a year, I think it was maybe like 4 or 5 months. Yeah, we like got out of there, um, and she had her own apartment. I think— I don't even know if it was that long. It's kind of hard to gauge that.

That's that better role gets awkward. It so depends on the scenario. I mean, because some of them like have to step in and be the dad.

Yeah, it's a rough time.

Like, just try not to interfere.

And some of them, like, that's—

and the age of the kids, like, sometimes what— a lot of them, because divorce happens a lot, a lot of them, like, know this at such a young age. They almost grow up with two dads.

Yeah, that's a tough— that Amanda said, Amanda's biggest thing is she's like, don't divorce me because I don't want to have to date anybody. I don't want to even be—

Ryan told me she wasn't She's like, I won't remarry, I'll just be an old shrew.

I told Amanda that. I was like, I was like, we were talking about it and she's like, what would you do? Like, morbid conversations you have as a married couple. She's like, what would you do if I die? I was like, I don't think I'd want to deal with another woman in my life. And she's like, are you kidding me?

I was like, I was like, Amanda, I'm like, I would have a date at the funeral.

Probably my funeral.

It will be so quick.

I was like, I don't—

I'm not gonna be alone.

See, I wouldn't say— well, and that was the funny part of the conversation was like, I was like, I don't think I would be able to date. And then I was like, well, maybe I'd like hook up with people. And then she's like, you can't do that. And she's like, what? She's like, you can't do that. I'm like, but I'm like—

I'd probably hire a nanny and a housekeeper and marry one of them like within 3 days. Listen, this is convenient.

This will work out.

I'm gonna save on payroll time.

Taxes.

I mean, there's really no reason not to.

No, it's hard. Oh, we just talked about buying health insurance for Amanda, and part of it was like, I was like, I don't know what I'd do with the kids if you died. Like, I was like, that's like, your mom would help out, but you have insurance. I have life insurance on me.

She doesn't?

No.

You don't think she's valuable?

I think she's very valuable. That was the conversation. But like, I was like, hey, like, I actually— the company I have my life insurance through was like, oh, we're just checking on you. Like, you're just trying to sell more stuff. But they were like, well, you ever thought about getting health insurance, life insurance for your wife? And I was like, yeah, actually I have been. I'm like, man, we need to get this test done, like have them come in and do all this stuff for it.

You have to probably pay for private school if you want to get your kids in that level of education. Oh yeah, yeah. Nanny, because your kids are young.

Yeah.

House cleaner.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

Hire an escort every once in a while.

Yeah, there's like a lot of costs involved in that, but Wow, you have— how much life insurance do you have, Ryan?

Uh, she's got a million. Yeah, I'm trying to bump her up to 3 so I can get like a lot of help. She's like, I'm not gonna be able to sleep.

I was just gonna do like half. Did she make you do a million?

Uh, there's a million on me and a million on her.

Yeah, back in the day, um, well, if you got it young enough, it's super cheap too. I think even for me, it's like I got like $750,000. It was like It's like $30 a month.

Yeah, I don't know the monthly. I'm like $450 a year and it's a million. Ryan's like $380 a year.

Did you do term?

Yeah, yeah, I don't know if it's time, but I can't remember.

I just—

one of the guys was just saying if we were looking at, um, bumping it to the 3, uh, but I mean, like, you know, we're all paid off, so it's just what's gonna keep Ryan having a lifestyle.

Yeah, that's why I told him, man, I think it's just something where you could pay off the house and then kind of figure out after that.

Well, you want to pay off the house and then be able to invest however you guys invest, and so that creates the income that replaces your income. Yeah. So whatever that investment is, if it's, you know, some houses that you rent out or in stock market, yeah, like you want that to kick out an annual income that's equal to your income.

Yeah.

What's the number I saw? I wish I could remember the guy's name. There's somebody that gave like an amount that you had to save up, that you could save up and just invest, and you would be able to live off that based off your yearly income.

Oh, 10 times your yearly income.

Yeah, I think it was more conservative than— yeah, I think his was higher, but it was—

so, so it's— yeah, it depends what you're plugged into. I mean, if your investment's kicking out 6%, yeah, that 60% has to be the dollar amount that you can live off.

Yeah.

If your investments are 10%, which I mean, they get higher than that. Yeah. The thing you have to deal with is when you're living off the investment income is when, like, it's great when it's 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, and then when 2008 comes, then you're like, holy crud, like, not only is it not kicking off income for me right now, it's worth half of what it used to be.

Yeah.

So you can't sell it, or you'd be stupid to sell it.

You gotta—

so then you gotta get through year 2008, 2009, 2010, 10. So then you have to have like cash set aside, or you have to have diversified investments of, um, not be afraid, Tim.

But yeah, I mean, let it sit there because like you look at—

I remember in college I got a book at the airport. It was like, it was all about just invest in the S&P 500. It averages 12% a year. It's never had a 10-year period where it's lost money. Like, it's like, it's the most—

consistent about it. Not so—

they're— well, 1/08 happened. Now there's one 10-year period. Dorcas lost money. Um, but it's still— I mean, I mean, it's a long— I think it's averaging, right? It depends on when you look at it. They were averaging 10-12%. Yeah, well, and that's like baseline. That's like the top 500 companies just based on like— there's like almost all of our investments are well beyond that. Like it's in the 15-16-17% APR, right? No, it's over long periods of time. It's not every single year that exactly. Yeah, some years some of them are doing like 2% and some years the average of these. Yeah, but you know, I've seen with real estate, so if you bought like, I don't know, like if she had the $750,000, she could buy like 3, you know, $200,000 and a quarter houses.

Yeah.

And they'd rent out for, you know, $1,500, $2,000 a month, more than that around here, like $2,500 a month.

I mean, it's crazy. I'm curious how much those— so then you're at like $7,000 a house out for—

so then they're like $80,000, $90,000 a year of rental income. You have to fix the houses and manage them and things like that. But, and that, like, when the market— the value of the houses is down, but it's still kicking out as long as you keep it on rent. You might have to lower rental costs. But, um, so I mean, yeah, so that's, that's been what life insurance is, at least from our side. Yeah, it's income related. We always have the business, like, she owns it, and she would either have to be able to run it, hire someone to run it, or sell it. So like, we have a whole plan involved that. That's a key aspect. I have a binder back there.

Does it say if Townsend dies? It's an "if I die" binder.

It's literally an "if I die." It has letters to Ryan and everything.

Has she read them or no?

I wanted her to and I gave them to her and she like got through the first paragraph and was crying and said, "I'mma won't read this." Why'd you want her to read it ahead of time?

Just so she knew. I really thought— was it like what she should do, or were they just like—

well, the letter was like, hey, you know, it was like a love letter. Yeah. And then it's like, hey, it sucks that I'm gone, but like, there's real stuff we gotta do. This business will fall apart.

Yeah.

Like in a matter of weeks or months if you don't— yeah, like, yeah, grieve later. Like a debater, like you can come up with things?

Not really. Yeah, I can be, but I have to be like be really prepared.

I have to like write it down and think about it. I'm like, and that on the spot, like, man, it's probably this way too, right? Like, Ryan can just like pull out all these different things. I'm like, man, you're— I can't think of my, uh, my—

oh yeah, it's like that. They have a little, they have a little bank in there that they just like—

yeah, I don't take notes of when you did wrong.

So I know, man, no, man, I'll bring something up for like 2 years, not even like an argument situation, be like, oh, you don't remember this? I'm like, why would I remember that? Like, we've talked about this one thing that had to do something that we don't even own anymore. Like, yeah, that's in the bank of like information that's not needed anymore. It's gone. Like, I don't— like, there's a limited capacity to my brain, and that's got— but I honestly, like, it, it's funny that you say it, cuz I had to like learn how to talk to her about stuff. Cuz that's what would happen. We would be— it would always happen at night, and you're about to go to bed, and she would bring something up, and I'd be like, why For one, I just want to go to sleep. We're dead. And then two, like, I don't know, I don't know what you want me to say, and I don't really know what I should say. And I feel like if I say the thing I really want to say, this is just gonna get way worse. And like, but she, but she would like finally was like, well, just tell me, like, who cares? Like, and it got to the point where I got a lot better about expressing stuff to her because like we made ourselves talk about it. And like now we're in a much better place because of that. That.

Like, when you get through those like scary times, it's kind of comforting knowing that if it happens again, you're like, well, it's terrifying. Like, it sucks in it, but you just know there's a, there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Yeah, and it's terrifying, man. Like, I— nothing, nothing, probably nothing makes us more sad as a couple than to hear about friends that are getting divorced. Yeah, and it's, it's— part of me is always just like, why? Like, I don't even— because like I said, I didn't— that wasn't an option for me.

Like, Amanda had thought about it, but I was like, no, she didn't think about doing it. She was like preparing mentally.

Yes. If they were not—

you would have had to be the aggressor that did it, probably, from her.

You say that, but me and her talked about this statistic. Like, it's something like 70% of divorces are— they're, uh, started by the wife. She is the person that goes through with it.

Now if you discount military, I wonder what that changes.

Oh, I don't know. It's a good question. But most of them, a majority of divorces, the wife is the one that files the paperwork. Whether that means it's the guy's fault or not.

Oh, well yeah, that's just because, you know, she's more detail-oriented. Listen, I'll get to it.

I'll get to it. I always say that to Amanda. Amanda will think that's great. It's like, well, you guys are organized. You actually go through the paperwork.

There was only one time, right? We were in a big battle over night. I forget what it was about, but I think Levi was the only kid we had. And I refused to go to counseling for the longest time. And I finally went, um, because she was going on her own at that point. And so, uh, and that's actually what me— this is what made me go.

But she said it.

She said she was laying on the floor with, or sitting on the floor with baby, and she was yelling me something. I just wasn't responding. And she was like something along the lines of, I'm, I'm gonna leave. Like, if you don't do this, if you don't go to counseling with me— that's what it was— um, I'm taking Levi, I'm going to my parents, and I'm leaving.

Oh wow.

I was like, that's it? Like, she wants a divorce? And like, I got— I mean, that was the only time I was really like, all right, how do I make her life miserable? Like, how do I just I thought that was it. Yeah. And then she came back the next— she had like counseling that night. The next day she came back, she's like, all right, the counselor said that the way I phrased that probably made you think I was going to leave you.

Well, yeah, what you said, exactly what you said.

Like, no, I just meant for like a few days.

You weren't specific.

No, like, I like, we're broke out, like, that shattered the glass for me. And I'm like, oh my gosh.

Did you guys ever have issues with religion?

No, because we're both Catholic. Now we go to the Episcopal Church, but yeah, our kids are— I mean, yeah, it's— what's that, English Catholic instead of Roman? No, we were both in— both involved. Um, we had both gone to Catholic school.

Um, oh really?

I didn't go my whole— like, I went like in spurts.

Yeah.

So And I'm really spiritual, like there's no, there's no doubt to my mind, there's no doubts in her mind.

So that's kind of something I've come to later on in life because like I was raised in a Catholic church but my mom wasn't really like— hmm, me and Amanda have talked about this because I was confirmed, first communion, confirmation, so that's what, 1, 2, 3? No, baptized, so it's what, 3 of the 5 sacraments? Sacraments. It's like 5 or 6.

Oh, flag it up still.

But like, like, I was raised in the Catholic Church, but we never like— it was weird. There wasn't like much on the spiritual side of it for my mom. As much as she would like, it was like, this, you do this. There wasn't much like, we have a relationship with God. It was like, you go to, you go to school, you go to the Catholic Church, you got baptized. When I was— I got baptized at I came home from the hospital, which is crazy to me. They like had the priest come to the house to baptize me at the house in New York. Well, it's in New York, church was like 2 blocks down the road.

I'm surprised you weren't Jewish.

Yeah, um, but I was like baptized and then I had like official baptism and then went to First Communion classes and then Confirmation and all that jazz. But like there was never like the spiritual aspect of it was never really talked about.