Episode 10 100%Dad Evan Nicholosi

My socks.

All right, you want mic on? Under shirt, over shirt.

Can you check to see if it, uh, it's not going to like explode? Nah, the gain's not going to be too high and start peaking or anything. Is it— is there a way to check that?

We can monitor it, that bottom bar.

I mean, I mean, you probably know these better than I do.

No, this is my first time using this setup.

Check 1, 2, see how it's like right at the top?

That's cuz there's two of them. Also the fan, you want to pull that drill—

yeah, I'll turn it off, it'll actually help with the smoke.

All right, there it is. I need my drink in front of me. You don't mind, do you? Gosh, we're going to be able to hear the kids. So much for quiet with the movie.

Quiet down!

You're ruining our moment. All right, cool. 100% Dad. I don't know what episode number it is.

We're recording.

Yeah, I think we are. A little red button.

Okay.

All right, start off, introduce yourself, who you are, what you do, how many kids, how long you've been married.

Sure.

Basics.

First and foremost, I want to explain that we are sitting on the back porch of my home. Here in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. My name is Evan Nicolosi, and we decided if we're going to do 100% Dad, we might as well have 100% nice top-shelf bourbon and 100% nice top-shelf cigars.

So it's watered down with soda and ice.

Well, that's because we're dads, I guess.

Yep.

I'm Evan Nicolosi. I've As far as my familial status, I come from a family of 3 children, and I ended up marrying my wife, who— it's a little interesting story there. We met on a mission trip, actually in Italy, with Campus Crusade, with a, you know, college ministry, and we basically decided we were going to pursue to kind of get married. And then we did that, and we did that in 2012. We met in 2010. And from that standpoint, we actually kind of went through a few different stages in childbirth, and we ended up deciding we were going to go through the foster-to-adopt program through the state. Mississippi is like a really You know, things are done a little slower in a sense here, and things are done a little differently, and so we kind of faced a lot of challenges going through that. But we actually went through with a few of our other friends, another couple in our church, and we found a— we kind of went through the whole program, got, you know, did a home study, and that took about 3 months to kind of get everything completed, and then we The week after our final home study, we actually talked to our resource worker, and they said they had a little girl for us. So within a couple weeks after us getting finalized, we had a girl that came into our house, and she was 18 months old, and she's kind of been our— she was obviously a child, not really a child, but she didn't Doesn't have really any memories or anything of her previous lifestyle. So, you know, as far as she knows, we're mom and dad, and we've kind of— we've been through a lot of talks, and she knows that she's adopted. So the second part of the story was that we had her, I think, for about 2 years, and on December 21st in 2017, we actually finalized the adoption for her. And that was kind of a cool story because my father passed away a year before on the exact same year anniversary of it was when we actually finalized the adoption for her. And so we changed her name and her name is Olivia Grace Nicolosi. And my wife kind of picked out the name because she wanted to be Livi Grace, which is almost like living grace, because that's kind of how we thought her life was, you know, and it's She definitely had a hard past and a lot of— there was definitely some baggage that she dealt with, but you know, as far as she knows, you know, we've kind of raised her and, you know, we have some ties to some of her biological family, but she definitely has fit right in with all of her other cousins and everything in our family too.

She's been married 8 years.

Mm-hmm.

Well, 2012 was 2020. Quick math.

Yeah, in August.

And you're a banker for a living?

That's right.

So math was still a struggle for you in August.

It'll be, it'll be 8 years, so it's technically been 7, but yeah.

Okay, rounding 8 years.

Uh, that's how you should do it in the stock market.

Well, I guess it depends which direction. What do you do for a living?

So I am in banking. I'm essentially in private banking. My title is a professional executive banker. I deal with a lot of doctors and attorneys and other kind of high affluent customers in the market, and I deal with a lot of their loans and some smaller investments that we deal with and kind of work as basically a private banker for a lot of mass affluent customers in our market. Okay.

I don't even know what a private banker is. I just assume.

So my background is I started out in commercial lending, started out as a credit analyst. And yeah, this is all banking talk, but that's, you know, a lot of people who go this route will know, you know, you start as a credit analyst. I've done commercial banking for a number of years, which is, you know, financing a lot of startup, owner-occupied companies, or, you know, doing small financing for real estate and stuff.

So someone's come, submitted the paperwork to someone else, and you're on the back end looking, saying, that's where I started, have these assets, that's where I started, they have these expenses, they have this income.

Yeah, that's right. So I did that, did that on the back end a lot and kind of went through there. And then when I actually— I finally moved to Hattiesburg in 2014 is when I started working kind of on the front lines as an actual, uh, loan officer or relationship manager is kind of kind of the— probably the better term.

Okay. How much of banking is, uh, just by the book? You're just kind of pushing it through versus, you know, I feel like this is going to be a good deal, or, you know, we'll make our money, or this guy's going to pay, or yeah, this business is worth investing in.

Yeah. So, you know, that's, that's one of the reasons that a lot of commercial loan officers will start in the, in the numbers side, because to To be kind of a commercial or professional banker, private banker, you have to really have good relational skills as well. But, you know, as FDIC and a lot of other standard practices continue to crack down and things change year by year, we have a lot of things that we have to kind of take into consideration. And so, I mean, we just, you know, there's a lot of factors you have to take in. I mean, every time there's any type any type of obviously large influence, any type of depression in the economy, we gotta take that into factor and we gotta, you know, play with the hands we're given, you know, play with the hand that we're given kind of thing. So you, there's definitely a lot of standard practices that you have to abide by, there's policy, but if you are, if you do, if you're in production like I am, you know, at the end of the day, your job is to produce and not to count beans and so we, you know, it's my job to make sure that if a deal makes sense, we have to find a way to make it work.

To find maybe a different path to get it done.

Okay. Interesting.

You gonna do that the rest of your life? That's what your dad did, wasn't it? I knew he was something in banking.

Yep, he was.

I never knew what.

So my father was a banker and my mother's father, so my grandfather as well, was also a banker.

So, um, one more time.

My grandfather. Yep. So my grandfather on one side, my mother's side, yeah, um, actually got my dad into banking. So once they got married, he, um, he actually started working for his bank, um, and that's kind of how he started, started getting into it. I mean, he was interesting. He, he was kind of one of those guys that went from pushcart all the way to executive management.

What the heck's a pushcart?

I mean, just like branch telling, all the pushing envelopes back and forth to different branches to the point where he was in, you know, so, and he was good at what he did. He actually technically works the last, so in 2015 he passed away from gastrointestinal cancer, But from there was when he—

Is that Coleman?

That's Coleman. Sorry, yeah. So I don't know where all you want to go with this, so I'm not trying to make anything—

I was just asking questions.

I'm not trying to make anything too sappy or anything, but he went prior to that for about 6 years, he worked for the bank that I now work for. So it's kind of cool to see things go full circle.

Really?

So he worked for, I mean, you know, he worked for SunTrust for about 30+ years.

Okay, that's a long time.

Yeah, it was a long time, and that was obviously through a lot of mergers, and it was something, you know, it was Flagship to SunBank to a few other banks. But anyway, so I kind of decided in college that that was kind of the route I wanted to go, and I mean, it's not really a— there's no real pretty story to it. I just started doing that, and we for my first—

was it you wanted to be like Dad, or you just saw that as a lucrative career because it did well for him?

Yeah, probably a little bit of both. Uh, um, you know, it was always something that— it was something that we grew up and we knew, so it seemed comfortable. But I also—

because I feel like no one's like, my passion is banking.

Yeah. And I mean, I still have other passions in life, but it is— the, the one fun part about banking is getting to see things go from, from zero to, um, start to finish, basically. So I mean, you get— you do get to see some, some really cool startups and other businesses that go on different, you know, different levels from startup to, you know, all the way to saturated and retired kind of businesses. But it's fun to watch that.

What'd your dad think of it? Uh, I'm sure you talked about it with him because you're going in that career, because he started what, '60s, '70s, I assume? Oh wait, your dad?

No, no, not my— he was born in the '50s. So yeah, probably, probably, probably the '80s. And I'm not sure off the top of my head, to be honest with you.

I assume banking now, or, you know, the time when he passed versus when he started, completely different. Yeah.

And I think about that all the time because, you know, we, I, it was at a point where, in fact, when I, and this is another side story, I'm sorry for going on tangents, but when we, when I started my banking career, I had just moved to Mississippi. Mississippi, and he was actually working for the bank that I'm working for now. And both of those banks were about the same exact size and bank whenever I started back in 2012. And also, they are both Mississippi headquarters banks and the two largest banks in Mississippi. So it's kind of fun because, you know, I called him every day and we just, we were able to discuss a lot and we kind of knew about some of the same stuff going on, at least my market and kind of stuff. So it was kind of fun for a little while, but to answer your question, we kind of, um, you know, banking obviously has changed a ton just throughout the years that I've been in there, and I can't imagine having to go through obviously 2007, 2008, and you know, and even before that, you know, back when prime was and it's, you know, 20-something percent, all that kind of stuff.

That's right, because the '70s was that way. '70s was extreme interest.

Yeah, different. And I don't want to— not— but just, you know, seen a lot of different rates, and you've seen CD rates go down, and he's just seen the way people bank. And we've gone from handshakes to cash flow, and it's a totally different beast now.

So anyways, yeah, I mean, that's what it feels like. I feel No offense, but I feel like I hate most bankers. I like you.

Well, and, and it's like you just can't do anything for me.

And a lot of that has to do with the scrutiny of, you know, and that might change now because I'm in a different position in my life than before when I was talking, when I was starting a business.

Yeah, broke.

But, and they probably really couldn't. I just, it was still irritating.

Yeah, it is. It's, it's real tough because it, you know, you know, back before, a lot of things happened, you know, even probably since, you know, the early 2000s. There's, you know, it was relationships was banking. That's all it was. And now relationships are vital and key to quality bank relationships or, you know, just banking customers or clients. But at the end of the day, you know, we have a lot of practices we have to abide by and we're getting scrutinized by, yeah, you know, the FDIC and, you you know, all kinds of stuff. So it's just different.

I still like the small— and, you know, we're from St. Augustine, so there's no small banks left. They keep getting bought out. I kept going to them, but they kept getting bought out by bigger banks, and then that would get bought out by a bigger bank. And so I think St. Augustine's left with literally zero small banks now. Uh, but I love driving here because y'all have here in Mississippi just this road coming here with, what, 10, 15 different small independent banks. I don't know how small, but names I've certainly never heard of.

Yeah, we have about 22 banks on just our, you know, street when you pull out of our driveway all the way back down through downtown, um, that kind of fit a lot of mold of what you would call a community bank.

And which I always like that because especially in the business world, um, gosh, we're so far off anything related to being a father, but we're gonna delete it. Um, I could walk into— you walk into the branch and everyone knows who you are. And we did a lot of cash, so we were in there all the time. But if I was out of town and something needed to be done, like, they would just— they would get it done even though it wasn't necessarily protocol because they knew me, they knew my voice. We could get stuff done without signature, get the signature later.

Yeah.

And that's what I appreciated versus now they got bought out and none of the people at the branch decided to stay. So No one knows who I am. I'm just a number on an account. Now, you know, we had to do the wire the other day and it was just a complete pain because, yeah, you know, because of COVID was part of it. But, and no one who— I get to the window outside because you have to do drive-through, you know, ask if I have an account there. Yeah, come on.

And that's the thing too, like, it's going to a point where banking is driving to more of a commodity business. Like anything, like insurance and stuff, just because of technological aspects. I mean, consumer banking is fully automated and almost online.

I'm surprised it hasn't moved there more.

In fact, what you'll see with a lot of— and this may or may not be interesting— but what you'll see with a lot of banks, and even some of the banks I've worked for in the past, that you'll see hours start to change for consumers. And I mean, like, I worked for another bank for a number of years, and we had slowly started to move our hours to where 4:00 or 4:30 on a given day is when we would close. And it was because between that 4:00 to 5:00, 5:30 PM time slot, about 90% of transactions that were being done could be done on your mobile phone. And so So what you're seeing is you're starting to train the consumer bank, consumers in banking to start to have to come technologically adapt to everything. And so, you know, it's just a, it's constantly changing. You have to, just like any other industry with technology, you're having to adapt a lot. And, you know, on top of that, we're being scrutinized by government, FDIC. You've got a lot of factors going in there, but at the end of the day, you get to deal with businesses, and at the end of the day, at least on my side of the job, you get to deal with people every day, and that's kind of what I like to do. And so that's kind of the fun part, I guess, is that it's, at the end of the day, for certain businesses, you are their point man, and you're gonna be the relationship aspect, and that's the kind of part I like to do.

So you fostered Good transition. Is that something— is that something you guys— hard transition, so we call that.

That's right. Okay.

Um, is that something you guys are still doing or open to doing, or is that stage of your life done?

Well, we, um, at this point—

because I guess you— we should mention at this point, your wife's also pregnant.

Yes.

So, so you got one, what, 5-year-old and, and one on the way?

Yep. So we've got one 5-year-old And we have been blessed as a family, and we've got another child on the way who's gonna be born in November, just the day before Thanksgiving. So, you know—

If I know anything about due dates, that child will be born any day except the day before Thanksgiving.

Probably born on the day of Thanksgiving when we're at, you know, some mother-in-law's house for the day kind of thing. Not some mother-in-law's arm up my mother.

Just a random, random Mississippi mother-in-law.

So, um, excuse me.

This is your first time smoking?

It is. It's, it's, it's fun. May become a little addictive too. From this, we should—

if we have any battery power, we should get a shot of your humidor and your collection.

Oh goodness, that won't impress anybody on this, on this. But, um, no, we won't do it. So, um, So anyways, yeah, you were talking about we are expecting, and that's another story in itself. We're very excited. We've been blessed, and we've kind of gone through different stages in our life, and I think that, you know, I'm a firm believer in, you know, you only know God's will until you're in excruciating pain, and then he decides to change and give you another path, and we've seen that, you know, happen with just different aspects of her life. We went from what we thought was basically full infertility to having the ability to have children, and we were blessed with that.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

Yeah, so we had gone through a few different phases of trying to have a child when we first got married for a couple years and went through a few small procedures, I guess you'd call them, and nothing ever panned out. And so in my personal belief and opinion that God kind of opened up a door for us to look into the foster community. Okay, so that's why—

so you tried it on your own first and then went foster and then adopted?

Yep, and we've been in the foster community for a while, and that's been a whirlwind of fun because that you're not just diving into a, "I'm going to take on a child," and it's an entire community of people who, you know, and I always tell people that I would have never ever wanted to adopt or foster, never even thought that was in my sight before I got married, and then whenever actually telling her I got married, she said that was always something she wanted to do, and you know, it It wasn't some layup to say that that's why we did that, but you know, we always said, "Well, we'll have a few children and we'll adopt," and there's a lot of people who say that, but I think, you know, God intentionally closed the door for us to kind of go that direction, and man, it's been a great thing for us because we've been a part of and seeing so many cool stories and seeing so many presentations of just the gospel in itself, seeing people people just kind of take on children in different circumstances and people's lives be changed.

So there's a lot of good stories. Are there any bad stories that come out of it?

Yeah, there definitely is. And you know, there's always, you know, the reality is that foster is real life. Like you are, you know, no matter what, you are taking on children that are, you know, 90% of the time having large issues. It's either based off of abuse, financial neglect, or kind of some kind of combination of the two. And so, at the end of the day, and just unfit biological parents are probably my third point that you see. But you see all these different scenarios and you hear, you get to hear a lot of stories and people who are trying to, you know, deal with real life. 'cause it's pretty messy. You will take on children and you get to a point where, and we were talking about this earlier today, but you'll get to a point where you, there's things you're just not prepared for. You don't know anything about, you don't know whether or not they, what their diet restrictions are. You don't know anything about if they're allergic to anything or even if there's something that's going to kind of spark some type of previous historical issue that they've just dealt with in their life. Because I mean, these people are coming from a lot of different backgrounds, and so, you know, you'll see that in just different scenarios.

And so, so, I mean, fostering in my world, I only knew what I saw from the movies where it was like 10, 20 kids in a foster house and everything was crazy. And right, I just thought, you know, essentially an orphanage with some parents.

Yeah.

Um, which obviously that wasn't the case here.— and that seems like, you know, the community around it. So I guess it's kind of a misnomer.

Well, I think there's a couple different types of really good benefits and type of people. And I'll say this, like, we were never— we went in very intentional into fostering, and, you know, we never said we wanted to come in and be a full revolving door for like almost a halfway home or whatever you'd want to call it, or a, you know, halfway home's not the right word, but just, you know, an orphanage or, you know, whatever it may be. And what we intentionally wanted to do was to find a connection, and we wanted to carve them into what would be our family. And I think that there's two different types of people.— or not types of people, I think there's two different mentalities there. And so we always wanted to make sure we did that. And you know, we were open to whatever the Lord's will is because you really just never know. But it was—

So what's that process like as far as like, do they give you— I just picture like a scene in a movie where you're looking for the terrorist and they slap down the file with the picture and the history on the person. So is it kind of like that, or do they just say, "We have a child and you get what you get"?

It really depends. You know, you can— and I don't mean to say that just open-ended, but you would— you know, one of the ways that you'll do it is you will go and you'll talk about— you'll give parameters depending on what your, you know, what your abilities are as a family, because you have to assess yourself, you know, as parents, you know, and decide decide what's going to be beneficial for who we take on. I mean, obviously, if you are brand new financially, you know, still securing your lifestyle, you're not going to want to take on 4 special needs children that are all siblings that have a lot of baggage to them. And so, you know, you can kind of— you definitely do kind of fit parameters and say, this is kind of what we're looking for. And, you know, again, this is like we're talking about in banking. Is a relational piece because you have to be really close with resource workers and that kind of thing and make sure that they understand what you're looking for and vice versa. But at the end of the day, it is tough because the whole fostering world has a large hole in it, and that is the actual personnel that work for that company. And these are people that are underpaid, that are see things that you and I will never see in one day.

We're talking about the social workers, I assume?

Mm-hmm, talking about the social workers or resource workers that you can call them, but these are people who like, you know, in one day they will tear children from a family, take them, you know, strip what a family would construct it as a biological family, and you know, within that same day also see a whole new, you know, a whole new family that's being built. And it's, you know, you're not that you're playing any type of superior godlike whatever, but you know, you're doing a lot of work. So it's always been really tough. We always said how there was an issue with it because, you know, we had, I think we went with our, with Livy Grace, we actually saw 7 different resource workers in the timeframe that it took for us to get her, to adopt her. And every single time it was nothing another issue, another concern, another—

just is it because her— I assume that's also called a caseworker. So is that caseworker was always changing?

That's right. Okay, it's high turnover.

I mean, I, I've always heard, because that's one of those careers where you spend a lot of money to get that degree and you get the master's to make another $2,000 a year, and that costs you a fortune, and you top out in like high 20s, low 30s. Yeah, as far as an annual salary. And it just is— yeah, that, uh horrible, horrible cost to get the job compared to return.

Yeah, that's the social work is—

and there's no climbing up in that field. No, you do it because you love it, but then it costs you a fortune to get into it, which is just— it's a sad set of circumstances. That's right. Make this a happier talk.

Cut.

You should have brought some magic.

Could have.

We didn't.

It doesn't translate to video as well.

I never thought about that, because you can pause and rewind and try and catch the sleight of hand.

Sure, we can talk about magic. That'll also be another long, interesting—

we're not going off on that tangent. Okay, I will go from the cigar tangent of, um, a true cigar connoisseur has a, has a long ash and it keeps— helps keep— it has a purpose. It keeps the cigar cool.

Keeps it cool. You've done a very good job. I'm very impressed.

Well, let's see yours.

Yeah, my, um, I'm a firm believer in size doesn't matter, um, but it affects the performance of cigar.

Your cigar is going to run hot there, which is going to make it a more bitter tobacco taste.

But that's—

I'm not here to judge you, I'm just telling you what you're doing wrong. Okay, so a true cigar kind store has holes in his shirt and shorts. And yeah, I won't do that to you. I'll tap this off here in a second.

I genuinely appreciate that.

Yeah, yeah. You're also supposed to toast your cigar before, which you did, before you light it. That's what I was always told. I like the V-cut. You told me I was a sissy for the V-cut.

You can do whatever your heart desires.

Apparently not, because you gave me a hard time for it. Um, so you had two little boys as well?

We did.

And so that was a foster scenario where they went back with their family, I assume?

They went back into the system. There's a— and you hear about these stories all the time. Um, so we had two boys for a little while that stayed with us for a little under a year, and when we got them, they were biological brothers., and the, the best way to kind of discuss what took place is these were boys with a— oh, you're fine. Yeah, you're good.

So on my way to tap it, well, it went on the hardwood.

I'm sure you'll, I'm sure you'll edit this to, to fit your, to fit your, uh, setup. But yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad you told me about how your ash was much more manlier than mine.

It's supposed fall off naturally. I did not intend for it to happen though, especially during this part of the story.

Yeah, that's fine. So anyways, I'm assuming you always want to give you background of how these things transpired than just saying we had two boys, but we got, we had, you know, we were opening to foster for a while and kind of the way things work, we We hadn't had a child in a long time and they came to us and we had never really said we wanted a sibling set. We always wanted to try to take one project at a time, but they came with us and they were two great little boys. One of them was— the older one was development delayed, and so we learned a lot about what it looks like to deal with people who are— children who have a lot of special attention that needs to be put on them and how they are learning in the classroom and different types of classroom settings. So it was a great experience, but at the end of the day, they did have a lot of baggage. And so there was, you know, there was a lot of biological familial people and things that were going on that made them, you know,, you know, kind of get put back in the system. So it kind of breaks your heart in some, some senses.

But when you say get put back in the system, what does that mean?

Um, biological parents kind of were fighting to get things back, and they were, they were kind of taken back in a sense.

And, you know, they went back with biological family in a sense. Yeah.

And we don't, you know, we don't fully, you know, we don't like— when you're, you know, you're only limited to so much scope as as a foster parent. And so, you know, we don't know anything about what they're doing right now, but we—

Oh, they don't keep you updated? The social worker?

No, that's kind of a matter of privacy.

Well, until I get maybe not knowing names and addresses and things like that, but an overall sense of things are going well.

Yeah, just because— Yeah, and we have, we've talked to them, we know that they're doing good, but there's, you know, I think that the bigger lesson you learn from that is that you don't know how much you get to be a part of people's stories sometimes, and it's just like friendships and relationships in life that you just do what you can at the time and hope that it makes an effect for their life later.

So. So if that plays out to where maybe things turn south again, would you be like the first they called, Or does it just kind of start all over again? Or do you even know? That's fun. What a bummer.

So did you want to talk about magic again, or is that what you wanted to go to? Or I'm just joking.

I was setting up like the best question in the world. Now you've distracted me.

I'll give you a second. Yeah.

You can think of your own questions as well. Uh, did you tell me— you kind of roundabout answered it because I was going to ask if you guys were willing to foster again, or if you're kind of— if you're keeping it 2, are you going to try again, uh, for another of your own? Or—

yeah, I mean, I don't think we— we don't— we don't try to control our own. Like, I know this seems like a cliché and cheesy the answer. But like, this is, this is the mentality we've had to have as a family. Like, we don't— we, we've been through enough in life with taking on children that aren't ours and seeing the effects of biological children and seeing kids that were in our home that have been taken away. I think we, we don't, we don't condone ourselves as like the, the full creator of the planet story. And I know that sounds cheesy, but that's just kind of where we stand. We're kind of one day at a time, and right now we're thankful that we've been given the gift of having our child. And we're gonna, you know, ultimately what we have to focus on for us as a family is to make sure that, you know, this new baby, which is going to be a girl, is going to be, you know, brought into the right, you know, the right setting and be loved. And that's kind of what we focus on.

And for people who aren't from Mississippi, Mississippi. You said brought into the right setting. Yeah, not brine, right? Because you don't salt the baby, right?

And, uh, we also have a peck of peaches.

We got a half peck. That's right, it's about 5 gallons.

That's right.

Which I don't think that— that's not a Mississippi thing. This is the first time I ever heard it, according to Ryan the homeschool teacher. So fostering Is fostering intended to be an in-between to get back to parents, or is fostering intended to be find a home for adoption?

So the number one rule in fostering is that the intention is always reunification with the biological parents.

Okay.

And if you were on that side, it makes perfect sense. This is a, this is a time period where a parent may or may not be off their game. There needs to be second, third aspects of grace for them, and so they can have the opportunity to— they may not be deemed fit parents at the point, and they need to work on some things, and fostering is essentially a time where you basically bring in a child, and you don't know what the next day will hold. That's why it's not a plan that's fit for your own carving or own control, but it's— It's all in the eyes of what, what, kind of what takes place next. Now, in the same sense, we always wanted to foster to adopt, so we did it through that, through that kind of process, but more of a mindset of, you know, we want these to be our children, but, you know, that was just kind of one of our personal mindsets that we had.

That makes sense. By the way, you should have a nice long pull about every minute. That'll keep it well lit.

Gotcha.

And not overheated.

Okay.

And it won't go out on you.

I appreciate you teaching me about all this stuff.

Every once in a while I like to throw in a nugget.

Yeah, good deal.

Because I double puffed and I'm like, someone out there is going to think I don't know how to smoke a cigar. I just want to make sure— it'd been a while— I just want to make sure it hadn't gone out. So did a little double, double toke on it.

Well, if Cigar Aficionado hashtags us and has some issues, we'll, uh, you can address that in your own sense.

Okay, listen, I learned from a complete stranger, so it's true. Some guy took me to cigar school, some random person, and I believed everything he said. And I went to Ybor City, which I guess that was a blast. 200 years. Oh my, it was so much fun. I actually learned— so, uh, coffee con leche. I always thought coffee would taste terrible with a cigar. Cigar, and it is absolutely amazing.

Coffee plays a large aspect.

That's what we should have been doing, actually. I like that 100 times better than I do a whiskey or, or beer with a cigar.

A coffee-flavored cigar or coffee itself?

No, uh, so a cigar, a cigar with a coffee. I've done it with black coffee, but coffee con leche, so really milky.

We could have pulled out our espresso machine and got any of that, but you know, I didn't think about it. I was just trying to play I was trying to get the camera working. One vice at a time for your audience here in social media world.

I have extreme ADD, so this is what it is. I refuse to change.

I think you're doing a great job.

I will have to get better. One of these days I'll learn how to do an interview properly and like actually have structure to these things, but for now I just do whatever the hell I want.

Well, I think there's a sense of, um, good thought process behind that because open format brings out the most authentic type of conversation.

I like to think so. Uh, 8 years. So there's 2 big time frames for fighting in America, like the hardest times of your marriage. 7 years is one of them. Okay, you guys said that, or you're—

I mean, it's like we've hit 7 years, so you asking if we've—

well, obviously you've hit 7 years, we've covered that aspect. Okay, so have you guys hit that, that stage of your relationship where it's been, you know, I don't think this is going to work anymore, or just massive fights, or, or probably a longer stretch of period where there's been struggle?

Yeah, I think that we, um, um, but I guess by definition, if 7 years is it, then we've definitely—

that's like an average, right? And I do it like every 2 years, right? Okay, because we're overachievers.

Well, I'm, I'm glad to hear that someone else is in that ballpark. So no, but we, um, no, I don't think we— we've never pulled out any divorce papers. Just, I guess, if you're trying to play from one extreme to the other. But we definitely, um, we've been through a lot of different types of life together, you know. We've seen birth, we've seen almost death in the same cause, you know, of seeing people leaving our family and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, there's been a lot of reasons and we've struggled a lot with trying to put on a family, but, you know, I don't— and that's not a sad story or sob story. I think everything is placed in there for a reason, but, you know, we've—

And I would think the way it's going, it almost bonds you even more.

Yeah, it does. And it, you know, I mean, I think that we've, you know, if you have, um, 2 and a half children and a white picket fence, that, that's a great blessing. And, you know, there's, there's obviously different other things that you're working through with your life, but I think that we've been fortunate enough to kind of had to mold our lifestyle to understand, you know, what it means to be a family. And that's been really important to us. So, I mean, to answer your question, I don't think that we've— I don't think we've seen it, you know, fights in the way that make you like, you know, question your, um, like status, marital status or anything. But I definitely think that, you know, there's moments where you learn that this is, this is what something we're gonna have to learn to grow through, and you just kind of have to buckle down and kind of work through it.

You're very go with the flow, aren't you?

I am.

You said, because I like to have everything, but like, I know, Beth, I don't mind changing up, and I do all the time, but it's almost because I've like I've re-decided or recalibrated, which I'm kind of doing all the time. Oh, now we're gonna go this way, which Ryan hates 'cause she says I'm always changing my mind. I'm like, I'm not, I'm just, we were going this way.

Right.

But there's new factors, I'm going this way.

Right, you gotta choose the best path that makes sense at that time, which I think is every, like every—

I like every— But I'm more like I always have a path that I'm going towards, and sometimes I get forced one way I don't wanna go, or sometimes I see a better opportunity or a better path where I'm not— but I'm not go with flow like you're saying. I'm not like letting go of control. I kind of like— I iron— yeah, I grip it.

Yeah. Well, I don't— I don't think that when I say that—

I think both ways are— yeah, none of them are wrong.

And I 100% agree. I'm very Type B in a sense, but I definitely, you know, like, I think it's, you know, important to like structure the fact that like I don't, you know, I always want to have control. It's like You know, one of the biggest struggles as any type of, you know, middle-class American father of a family does. I mean, everyone's going to want to continue to try to make sure that this is my family, I'm taking care of this, I'm going to have to make the next decision that's going to be best for this family. And I've always had that, and I think that if you probably contacted family or social workers all that kind of stuff, they would say that they'd probably say a different story. This person's Type B because, you know, I mean, at some points you fight for what you think is yours and you fight for what you want to be right. But, you know, in the same sense, I think that there's definitely, you know, I think there's definitely a factor where you have to say, you know, at the end of the day, I, you know, there I can control the things I can control and what I can't control I'm going to I'm gonna use to the best of my abilities and use to kind of glorify in the sense of like the family and the faith and all that kind of stuff.

And that's, you know, you lean heavily on faith.

Yeah, I do.

Um, where were you born? Mississippi.

I was not. I was born in Florida.

Why?

I live in Mississippi.

I knew the answer.

Where we met was in Florida.

Um, so met in Italy, which I don't even know why they even do missions— or Michigans— why do they even do missions in Italy? I feel like missions get done in like Africa and Haiti.

That's your best Deadline 2020 question so far. No, that's a good question. Like, so it can be a short story or a long story.

I'll try to make it a shorter Based on battery life, we might have to make it short.

I'll make it a definitive story, I'll put it that way.

Yeah, um, yeah, 45 minutes, we're good.

So your question was, why do they do missions, um, and even in Italy?

That was like my fourth question. There was like 5 in 1, but yeah, was there?

Okay, yeah, that was the one, that was what I got out of what you asked me.

That was the last question I asked. That's why Okay, you don't remember the first 4, do you?

No, you can, you can rephrase it if you want.

No, I don't remember them either. I was hoping you did. Okay, let's go with the last one.

That's fine. Oh, so the—

oh, it'll be why you live in Mississippi versus Florida. Well, obviously I've chosen Florida and I like it.

I gave a synopsis a second ago, but so the, the short version is I grew up in Florida. I was—

I feel like that was a different You're trying to stick it to me that I didn't hear it right the first time.

No, no, I was just saying that, no, I didn't.

I already answered this question, I'll do it again. No. For crying out loud.

Hardball with Townsend Russell. Should have brought my, never mind.

So. I don't even know where that was going.

So we, um, so I started out and, you know, obviously grew up in Florida, um, born in St. Petersburg, moved to Fort Myers. Most of my, um, actual childhood was in St. Augustine, Florida, which is where you spent a good portion of your adolescence, I'd say, at least a little bit, at least through high school, right?

All of high school.

All of high school. West Virginia before that. So we So long story short, I loved everything I grew up in, love Florida and love everything about it. When I was in my undergrad at UCF in Orlando, we were very heavily a part of Campus Crusade and the worship team and just the ministry as a whole. They had a basically a connection point with Italy, and so they did a lot of summer projects where they would go out and do things over the summer to probably stateside projects, and they also did a lot of international to Italy. And so I, I'm Italian and I love Italian culture and all that kind of stuff, and I took, you know, 3 you know, long semesters learning Italian and all that kind of stuff and just loved the culture itself. So I knew I wanted to try to be a part of that, and whether it was the right reasons or the wrong reasons, I knew I wanted to be in Italy. And I'd gone a few times with my family. In fact, my sister had a destination wedding there. I love the place. Did she really? Mm-hmm.

I didn't know that.

She did. So just loved Italy in itself, and so I just I just wanted to be, you know, like any innate human quality, I wanted to connect with that thing. Just like you want to do national travel, I wanted to learn more about Italy and be a part of it. So, um—

Both your parents were Italian?

Just my father.

Okay.

So I'm technically just 50%, but, um, anyways, they, um, so we had that partnership through the college. And I had done a couple what they call vision trips where you'd gone for like a week and spent time there and kind of, you know, it's just, it's a collegiate ministry.

Was that stateside or over in—

Over in Italy.

Okay.

Okay, so you made multiple. I made a couple trips there, yeah, and so, but—

What do you do over there? I keep interrupting you, but I'm curious.

No, you're fine. It was, you basically do a lot of college ministry, so you basically go on campuses with other college students and the thought process behind that is that obviously a college student would connect with another college student, and you'd go out there and you'd basically kind of—

'Cause I mean, we're talking Italy. It's like the Mecca of Christianity.

In a sense. It's the Mecca of Roman Catholicism, and—

Well, I'm Catholic, so—

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that, and like they have a very traditional style background, and like, you know, just Roman Catholic Church. And the way—

So you're finding people that are disenfranchised with the strictness of the right way.

No, and the reality was that, you know, we wanted to go in and just kind of be a part of just what, you know, what the church and— Is this gonna be okay for you? Is that all right, or should I—

I'll take the label off and finish the process. Properly.

Yeah, once I get there, I'll move it off for you.

When you burn your fingers, find a twig, bend in half, and then you can— and then you chew the last remaining bit.

Okay. I'm glad I brought you on board to help me smoke cigars tonight. That was my biggest worry about this whole interview.

Um, I feel like I'll never be invited again.

So, um, going on tangents here, but basically all— it's college ministry. It's the idea of connecting with other college students on a campus, and of course UCF, where I went, is now the nation's largest campus, you know, college campus. There's 60,000 undergrads there.

I didn't know that.

So 60,000 undergrads there. At the time, I think when I started there, it was the 7th, but no matter what, there's been 40,000 60,000 since I— when I went there.

How many national championships?

One declared national championship. So, um, that, that we can do a whole nother topic on that, but I'm not sure if that fits in 100% Dad. No, no, or 100% Right, but that's a different story. Um, so we, uh, anyways, we— you keep getting me off on these tangents, man.

I love it.

All right, so you go to Italy, you're doing mission work, you ran into —And to answer what you kind of started, just because I want to do it real clear, like in ministry, I mean, you know, in a ministry aspect of that, it's not to go in and teach someone what you think the church is. The idea is—

You're not finding non-Christians and trying to convert. No.

You're going to college campuses. Here's the thought process is like even in like Rome, like such a large traditional like lot of history with someone like Italy. You know, we always joked and said that the church in the sense of Italy, because we all know, I mean, different parts of the Roman Catholic Church in Italy, that the strengths and the weaknesses, and I think there's a lot of parts of that that make them very vulnerable, and like we always joke that in Italy, it was almost like talk— the church is like talking about their mother. Where they could talk about it in a bad sense, but you can't talk about it. So, you know, there's some sensitivity issues, but at the end of the day, you're just wanting to kind of overreach that and talk more about more personal, you know, spiritual intimate conversations, which is what you go over and do. So anyways, I just wanted to put that— I wanted to punch that in there. You ever been to Jerusalem?

Huh? You ever been to Jerusalem? I have. Israel. That'd be really cool to do. Would it be? Oh, it's very, very cool.

Would you take kids there? Mm-hmm. Now, current environment? And when I went there, when I actually went there, I was a kid. I was in 5th grade, and I could hear, and you know, even when we were in Petra, I could hear bombs being put off in, you know, distant, distant miles, like a few miles away.

But anyways, because that's the real Mecca of Christianity, I want to make sure That got said. I don't actually think Italy was. Italy is a stronghold for the Catholic Church.

Right, when you say Mecca, that's where Jesus Christ was born. Yeah, I get that. I got you. But anyway, so I wanted to go there. I love Italy. I have a passion for Italy. If you have a passion for something and you can coincide it with something that you're strongly opinionated about, it makes a lot of sense to do it. So that's what I did, and when I chose to go there for a summer project, which is a 6-week project. I decided to go when University of Central Florida, UCF, decided to stop partnering with them in at least a sense of a short-term timeframe. So when I went there, I actually, it was myself and 35 Mississippi State, University of Mississippi State or Mississippi State University college students. How did you make that happen? I forced it upon them.

I made a lot of phone calls and tried to So you went to your UCF people and were like, "Find me a way.

Find me another school." Yeah, I was like, "I want to go on this trip and I want to be a part of it." So I did. So the joke was that I went there to work on my Italian and came back with a strong Southern drawl. So they—

it was— And I'm assuming that's how you met your wife.

That's where Taylor was there and met her there and, you know, intentionally kept going from there. There to pursue marriage. I don't think we ever started dating with the idea of just casually dating, because when you're 700-something miles away, you make sure it's pretty intentional. So we were doing things off Skype for a little bit and made a few trips, and then we, um, we kind of made it happen.

So I also— I didn't even think about that.

Long distance at the start. So, um, we, um—

so at what point did you guys get to the same state. Um, were you long distance and then got married, or did you move to Mississippi?

No, I, I actually, right after I graduated in my— with my MBA, with my graduate degree, they, um, we knew it was going to either be Florida or Mississippi. And Taylor was trying to apply for occupational therapy school at the time. It's just one of them, it was University of St. Augustine she was a part of in Florida. And the other one was in Jackson, Mississippi, which is called UMMC, which is a submedical college of Ole Miss. And so she ended up there, just with the way everything worked out. The Mississippi one? Yep, the Mississippi one. So I would fly up every couple weekends, interview with banks and try to find a job, and then we ended up— Expensive date. Expensive date. I mean, when you're, you know, when you got to fill up 2.5 times tanks of gas just to, you know, go see her. I mean, it's definitely— I wouldn't say that's a popcorn in a movie theater type of relationship. But now we, um, anyways, we— that's just kind of how we made it happen. And, you know, it was, um, so when you talk about intentionality and being Type B, I think that we don't— you know, there's sometimes where when you know what you want, you at least kind of go for it, I guess. So That's our lifestyle.

And, you know, I mean, you know, I didn't realize that. I had no idea about that story. That's cool. So that's why you ended up in Mississippi?

That's, that's why we're here to this day. And we've been in a couple of—

I guess she got her— no, now if she had gone to University of St. Augustine, would you guys be in Florida or would you have gone back to Mississippi?

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. I don't know. I mean, you know, who knows? And so we're, you know, we're again just one day at a time. This is where we're at.

So, you know, it doesn't seem like a bad place to raise a family. It's not. I've actually kind of liked the whole set. I love Florida. We're on coastal Florida, so it's a little different. I've never lived in central Florida, like the farmland and— there's a great word for it I'm missing. What do you call central Florida? Disney World? North of that, like Ocala area. Uh, scrubs. I never grew up in the scrubs.

I'm not sure if I can say anything without sounding politically incorrect, so I don't know.

Um, I, I like the lifestyle. It's hot. It's a little hot. Roads could be a little bit better, but the weather was nice. I love that.

I love the, uh, heat can Humidity and bad roads, just welcome to Mississippi, man.

I love the geography of everything I've seen in the Southeast so far, and I've never traveled. This is my first time to Mississippi. This is my first time to Alabama. Yeah, I've been through, you know, coastal Georgia before. Yeah, but I just, you know, I love the rolling hills. I love the different trees and, well, and also the different soils because all we have is sand in Florida and you guys have clays and colors and rocks. Yeah.

And I'll say this just to, you know, 'cause that's a really cool thing that I think I've got to experience that I've been very fortunate and blessed to and gotten to see and be a part of, but like, you know, Mississippi is not a destination place to move to and, you know, my wife is from the Delta, which is just a large, flat farmland up in North Mississippi and you would never have any reason to be there unless you were from there. Born there. In fact, they're, you know, at a large decline in population up there. But at the end of the day, one of the things that you learn is, you know, this is— Mississippi is the hospitality state, and one of the things that make people come here and never leave is just because of— you learn, you meet people that care more about relationship than anything else. And there's a, um, there's something to be said about that, because when you realize that life isn't about just what your own personal agenda is and what you think needs to be your right, and you realize that, you know, there's a lot of selfless people here that really made me open to kind of a whole new type of mentality. And so I was happy to get to see that and at least be a part of it. I don't think I'm anywhere near any of those people, but I think there's something to be said for meeting people who, you know, are going to take you in no matter what you are, who who you are or how you look. And, you know, they, they just love you because you're you. There's something cool.

I've always heard— a Georgia boy was telling me this— that there's, um, you got your front porch friends and you got your back porch friends. Okay. Is that the same in Georgia or Mississippi? Yeah, that's the first time you've heard that?

Yeah, I've never heard that before, but I'm, um, I'm guessing that's because it's like— so if you really like—

so if someone comes over, because I guess in the South sometimes people just show up Um, like, that's the way he—

like, at your door? Yeah, okay. How you guys doing?

So you sit in the front porch and chat for a little bit.

I got you.

Uh, and maybe this dates back a few years, but—

well, okay, I see it.

And so, like, you know, your friends and yourself, so you sit in the front porch, you have some tea and whatnot, or whatever, and have a drink and talk and chat, and then they leave. And if they're really good friends, you invite them through your house and sit in the back porch.

Yeah, well, there, there's definitely a large, like, you know With good comes bad, and there's definitely a large— You got a great front porch here, by the way.

It's a back porch.

I had a great front porch until your kids were on it. You can cut that one out. So one of the things with— you're talking about just kind of front porch friend and back porch friends. In Mississippi, good comes with bad with just just being hospitable to people, and I think when, you know, there's definitely a large factor where there's a lot of small talk, and you know, you're gonna be somewhat genuine to everybody, and in a way also kind of cut yourself off, so I think there's definitely a lack of just intentional, like really intentional relational hard-hitting questions that people do here, and they kind of put on a facade, and you know, if you're you and I'm me, we'll have a good conversation and not try to get to a point where we're crossing any gray areas to make us need to have any type of controversy with each other. And there's kind of something to be said about that because when people get real, they can get real. But if everyone's kind of people pleasing and just kind of looking out for each other— and that's just like I'm not speaking for the state as a whole, but this is just some of my experiences I've seen from this socioeconomic standpoint.

You heard it here from Governor Nicolosi.

That's right. Am I using too many words? I don't know. Do you have a will? Do I have a will? Yeah. I don't. Really? I don't. Get a will. Okay. Like today.

Okay. For real? Huh, you're killing me.

Why? You're gonna kill me about making me look like I'm— So what were you going with that? I was genuinely asking.

I ask every father, huh, you need a will.

Okay, I just tell them all.

Yep. I figured you were a banker, so you're like, so much paperwork and everything that you just would naturally have one. Yep.

I've got, um, the financial side kind of put in place, but I, I've actually never gone and Yeah, I will.

It's super cheap. Yeah, so yeah, do that ASAP because if you get hit by a bus tomorrow, it wreaks havoc on her. Yep. And they get them just for the process. They'll get everything that's yours.

I've, I've seen how estates work. I know.

Yeah, it's rough because probate court sucks. Yeah. And no one intends on dying.

That's, that's part of the business, risk management. Why don't you have one? I'm genuinely curious because you know it. Yeah, well, you've seen it. You want me to lie to you? No, you tell me the truth.

Okay, you just don't care.

I just— I don't think I've gotten to that point. I think I've, you know— You got to that point when you got married.

You got the point again when you had a kid. It doesn't take much. You disagree with me?

I don't disagree with you. Oh, all right.

Are you gonna do it?

There's a lot of good things to do in this world.

Uh, guys, I still 100% believe— oh, that's a nice line I'll use— every father needs to have one. Okay, like 100%. Just, that's good taking care of your family if you die, whether you like it or not, just get hit by a bus. Okay, 5 minutes.

I think we've come to a good wrap anyways.

No, I want you to get a will. I'm about to put it together for you. You can be super easy one. Life insurance? You got life insurance? Are you just saying that now?

I'm not. Okay, good.

So what are other things? You're a banker. Oh, here's one we'll drag controversy into. So I'm— what I'm looking for Yeah, so I don't like that at all. You're a banker, so that's how banks make their money, is by people borrowing. Um, and risk management. Yeah, so I've always been like super, uh, not fond of credit cards and taking on loans. And I mean, we got a mortgage to get the house and things like that. Um, you know, we just try to pay it off as quick as possible. Um, I guess, where do you sit on that fence? Are you like keep your credit score up, stay in debt, like have payments on things? Are you more live conservative, build up cash, or somewhere in between?

I think it depends. I think there are things in this life that are, you know, my textbook answer, my honest answer is that, you know, I'm a firm believer in Ramsey and, you know, and having no debt. I'm also a firm believer in making sure that you play by, in a sense, societal rules and making sure that you have the ability to borrow if things come to a point where you need to. So, you know, some people are fortunate and work really hard and have the ability to build enough cash and work in kind of a good progressive mode and a style in their life life and be able to live in a cash, good, stable lifestyle. But I think that there's, you know, people who like to take risks, who want to drive economic forces and start up businesses. And at the end of the day, you have to put in what you're going to try to put out. And so sometimes it takes on— that's going to take on factor of wanting to make sure you have the ability to have other people that believe in you and make sure that you have a plan and have an understanding. And that's where— that's when you borrow. I don't think you borrow in a sense from a bank if you, you know, need to just go shoe shopping and want to have a 20% APR credit card from JCPenney's because you need the latest fashion. I, you know, I think that that's— a lot of people try put those two types of things in the same thing because they say debt is bad.

So you don't like it to feed lifestyle?

I don't like a what? You don't like debt to feed lifestyle? No, 100% not. No, I don't think that you need to be overtaken by debt. I mean, of course credit card companies make a profit off of the vulnerable, and I don't think that shark lending is like something that any any person that has a type of moral conscience believes, but I do think that like, you know, when it comes to like actually making dreams come true, there are people that aren't blessed with, you know, trust funds, and there are people that aren't blessed with, you know, the ability to have people that back them and a family to allow them to do the things that they want to do. And, you know, you can understand from someone who's kind of been an entrepreneur, I deal with entrepreneurs all I see people who want to make something happen that they know that they can make happen. They believe in it. And if that's the case, then you're going to have to get backing. And just because whether that's, at the end of the day, if you are, if you have just gotten married and you just got your first job maybe a year or so before that, unless you have some sort of outside influence, influence, you don't have a lot of money to work with. Now, you have the ability to budget and make sure that you work hard and make things make sense and check things, fact-check things on a monthly basis and live a life, but I think that there's definitely parts where you're going to have to borrow. I don't think a mortgage is a wrong thing to do. I think Ramsey would speak in that in all of his books and pieces. And do I think that you want to pay it off as quick as you can and live a happy life? Yes, and be debt-free. But I think that sometimes life doesn't work in a sense in that. I mean, like you said, if you went and you had a large traumatic injury and something took place and you had to go on disability You know, things happen. I mean, people just can't plan for things in life. And so I don't know if that's kind of a long-winded way of saying I'm not sure that really answers your question, but I definitely think that, you know, credit card debt and being slave to credit is not what you want to do. You don't live to make your minimum monthly payment.

And that's what 99% of people are doing. Yeah. It's a very small portion that are going in for just genuine business debt to expand their business. I actually don't think you should borrow money to start a business. I think that's actually colossally stupid. We also didn't have a trust fund or a family backing of any way. We just had to do it on our own. And we did it. We just had to start small and grow slow. It sucked. But it paid off.

Yeah, and I think that's good. I think that's a noble side to that. I mean, you don't have to— just say you're going to pledge something you don't have and be indebted for 20 years to get something that you want, that you think is right. I mean, that's not a good way to look at it. But I do think that, in a sense, I think that there's bad to everything. I mean, attorneys are liars and bankers are robbers and consultants are just frauds and all that kind of stuff. I mean, there's gonna be bad side to everything, but at the end of the day, because you're talking about banking in general, banking is going to find a way to make people's dreams come true. And as cheesy as it sounds, like a Disney reference, like, people want things for good, you know, like people want to find ways to make their dreams come true. And sometimes that is gonna result in, you know, having to borrow and, you know, not just borrow but get backing and quantifiably accurate backing, not like handshakes like we talked about earlier, but like, you know, you have projections and this makes sense. There's a whole science that goes behind it, so I don't think there's, you know, I don't think in the sense of like businesses that, you know, that, and even some things that people do, I mean, you know, I would never stray or say that, you know, a young married couple who, you know, is making $50,000 a year, they don't need to go in and not buy a home, because I personally think that it makes sense to build equity in a house. And I think that if you put a 30-year out there and you work hard—

That's an asset that's growing in value, and it locks in your cost of living.

Right, yeah. I mean, I don't think to say you're going to build credit and just blow things and sit there with a $30,000 balance in credit card debt, it's going I'm not trying to help you by any means, but I do think that there's a sensible understanding and making sure that you know. The other thing too that amazes me is that people don't realize you have access to understanding these days. It's so easy. Credit score and that whole conversation is not a hard conversation to swallow or understand these days as it was 10 or 15 years ago. People have the ability to understand, like, hey, If I do this, my credit score is going to jump up. If I'm only utilizing 30% of my credit card availability and it makes sense for my monthly budget that I have and expenses, then it makes sense and I pay it off every month. But at the end of the day, you have that ability to see things, to understand that, and you have to do what's comfortable. And I think that sometimes ignorance is a bliss, and you know, if with, with people who probably just wouldn't be able to handle that, it's probably best just to stay away from that and use a debit card. And you know what, it stinks because I think that, you know, there's a lot of benefits to credit cards. I think there's things when, you know, it comes to, you know, money being stolen or identity theft, or a lot of things that it's good when you go traveling or use, you know, use your money at a gas station or something. I think it makes sense to use a credit card. Now which I think is what you're talking about, more consumer debt. But I don't think you ever want to build debt, but I do think that there's an important side of that that a lot of people have the ability to understand, but I think just don't fully understand it. And I think that's kind of where, you know, you kind of have to enlighten yourself a little bit.

You're protected with a debit card.

You are, but there's some things that, you know, you can, um, if I swipe and someone steals it—

and I mean, because we've had that happen and put some money back because we were protected by Visa or MasterCard's zero liability guarantee, whatever it's called.

There, there's times. And although we do—

actually, a good question, because I, I don't even know my PIN. They assign us a random PIN and I don't even know what it is. I just use credit. My, like, I go to the— when you swipe a transaction, yeah, swipe as credit. Yeah. So I don't know if that puts puts us through that system, or it'll work the same if I enter a PIN?

I mean, like, this is a small facet of banking that we're just talking about, but like, you know, this is like, you know, all a bank— all a bank's, you know, inherited risk is, you know, again, risk management and also fraud. And fraud is something that deals with technology, which is changing every day. So I mean, there's like— there's all kinds of— there's a lot— there's a— this is a— this is a big conversation that kind of goes into it. But, you know, one of the— one of the small points that you have to explain I always explain to people is that like a debit card is cold hard cash. And although that there's some, you know, there's some reserve and some ability for banks and things to be backed by, at the end of the day, what you pull out of there is cash. It's, you know, and so it just, it just, it just kind of, it's circumstantial what you're doing and that kind of thing. But anyways, yeah, like, you know, fraudulent activity is a whole nother beast, and it's just something that you have to deal with. That's, that's something that is one of the bank's main purposes, to make sure, you know, that people are being protected. That's, that's a, it's a whole nother—

we've had our card frozen so many times because they're, they are on the ball with that kind of stuff. We go to a different state and they're like, shut it off real quick. Um, I got nothing else. Anything you want to say? No. Dad-wise?

Dad-wise? Like, oh, as a 100% dad?

I don't know, just anything you feel called or inspired to say.

I don't, I don't. I think that's a good opening question, but I don't think I have anything to get up for you.

Put your kids to bed at a certain time. Yeah, apparently it was about 20 minutes ago.

Yeah, since— especially since she's the one knocking at the door telling me it's time to go to bed.

All right, cool. That's a wrap. I appreciate it. Cool. Hopefully we have battery power still. Says third. No, does not. 15 minutes.