Interviews with dads-Manny Torres

100% Dad, Interviews with Dads. We got Manny Torres. How are you?

I'm doing awesome. How are you doing today?

Loving life. We're actually over in, uh, Utah now, so we've been boondocking, which means just parked in the middle of nowhere in the desert in Moab, uh, which is cool because we got to do like Arches and all that. But now we're up in Salt Lake City, so I'm back in civilization. I have cell phone connection. I have Wi-Fi here at this park. It's, uh, it's nice. I kind of missed it. Yes, not to have a connection, it is, but it's hard to do podcasts when you don't have connection. And so we've been like— so we were in the desert in Moab, then we were for 3 weeks in, uh, Colorado, and we had 3 different like just remote areas of Colorado where we just had nothing. And, uh, so it's been a solid like 4 weeks of no connections. Which has been, uh, it's been tough. So we actually got here, we were at a state park in Willard Bay north of Salt Lake City, and we finally— and we had cell phone signal. And then we were supposed to be leaving yesterday to go to Idaho and start doing some boondocking out there before we go to Yellowstone and Grand Tetons. And, uh, we just decided we like being back with, you know, connections and water and you know, sewer connections and things like that. We don't have to transport it all. And, uh, so we ended up just moving across the street, a whole 7-minute drive to a KOA. Again, uh, they've got good Wi-Fi so we can do this. And because this would have probably been tough in the middle of Idaho, just a little bit. Yeah, so that was— it's been my struggle so far. And I haven't shaved my beard in like— this is what, almost 48 hours growth?

Looks Looks strong there. You've got, uh, some, uh, gremlin-type hair growth going on there. You just put a little bit of water and it multiplies.

I gotta, uh, I've got to trim this all, and my hair is like insane. I've never had hair this long, like, my entire life. So I'm gonna have to—

I only grew my hair out once. It was, uh, right after I got married, and I grew it down to my shoulders, and then I was like, I'm done.

Oh, well, I'm not that long. But man, it's weird because like it gets in my eyes now and like I have to like tuck it behind my ears. It feels so feminine. It's weird. It's good. Something's going to have to change here soon.

Right.

But so I guess let's introduce yourself, you know, name, occupation. You married, have kids, where you live in, all those kind of things. All right.

So I'm Manny Torres. I'm co-founder of Rock My Image. We're a marketing strategy and systems business here in Jacksonville, Florida. I'm married to, uh, Mary Beth Torres, and we've got two young kids. One's 8 years old, is Alex, and our youngest son is Drew, who is 6.

8 and 6. Uh, so what was your job? You guys do marketing or what?

So marketing strategies and systems. So we help businesses who have some success, but they know that they can do more. So we help them with their strategy and system so that they can spend their time focusing on, you know, the things that they need to do to run their business and have systems in place behind them to leverage their tools and assets to keep driving those leads, nurturing them, and turning them into sales.

Okay, so you're on the online side of marketing?

Majority of it, yes. We'll do a little bit of offline strategy, but the majority is online.

Okay, cool, cool. Uh, 2 kids. Uh, how long you been married?

10 years.

10 years. And how old are you?

I am 44.

Okay, cool. Where do you live? You're in Jacksonville, right?

Jacksonville, yep.

Okay. Yeah. Are you living in St. Johns County, working in Jacksonville, or are you living in Jacksonville?

Living in Jacksonville, just a little bit outside of San Marco.

How you guys, uh, how you guys handling, uh, the COVID experience?

Uh, it's, it's been new. Uh, it hasn't been a big change for me because a lot of time I work from home anyways. Um, But I guess with the kids being around, that became a challenge with both my wife and I working from home. But once they got back into camp and they're out doing their thing, it's been a lot easier.

So where did the— so is Jacksonville opening back up then?

Yeah, they've opened up, you know, a decent amount of things. And now it's kind of teetering back and forth with more places having you wear a mask and more social distancing. But they opened camps up for kids. I guess at the beginning of June and restaurants are open, but now we're starting to get a little relapse here. So they're starting to require more masks and some places are shutting down.

So what kind of camps are they going to?

So they were at Camp Chippewa, which is this really cool outdoor camp where they do a ton of different activities, canoeing, fishing, sports, essentially all day, the whole day they were spending outside just rotating between different activities. Uh, so they put them in little groups of, say, like 8 to 10 kids, and that's like their unit, and they get to do all kinds of, uh, activities together with that unit. They have a pool on site, uh, so that they had a blast there.

That sounds fun.

Yeah, I know. I wanted to go.

I kind of want to go to, right? Because they need to have that where we're dads or moms and dads, the whole family can go. Actually sounds fun. We just did that, um, what do you call it, whitewater rafting while we were down in Durango, Colorado. It was, uh, that was fun. The kids loved it. But anything outdoors, I feel like, is just— everyone appreciates, it seems like, right? So, yeah. So they're off in camp, um, is that like 5 days a week?

Yeah, for the most part. Um, you know, we also have them doing a little bit of swimming, so some days they'll get picked up early to go to practice. But, uh, yeah, it's Monday through Friday.

Oh, good. Uh, did you notice anything with them, like, during the COVID Did you— and I don't know exactly, we left in the middle of COVID so we just came out to the—

good time to leave.

Well, it's either that or just sit at home all day, so we figured we'd go to the remote parts of the country and just, you know, if we're going to be stuck inside our house, might as well just keep moving our house, you know, right? And then go and explore in the outdoors where nobody is anyway. So that was the theory behind it, but we genuinely thought we would leave and the whole COVID thing would last like another month, maybe two, and then it would like settle down and get back to normal. And here we are like two months later and it's just rearing its head again. So, right, uh, where's it go? So COVID, uh, so were you guys like, uh, hardcore locked down for a while, or did life kind of go on as, as normal? Because I know schools got, you know, canceled, and so kids came home and all, uh Right. How'd that work out for y'all?

For us, they essentially went away for spring, or had spring break, and then essentially spring break was continued indefinitely. So we were doing homeschool learning, which was interesting. You know, I think the schools here did a decent job trying to transition very quickly, but, you know, our kids were running through the lessons very quickly, so they had a lot of free time. In terms of our family, like what we're doing, you know, day to day, we try to get out and just walk around and get the kids doing something active every day. So we were walking them in the mornings and taking them out at night until stuff started to open up. Luckily, it was still cool enough at that point. If we had to do it right now, it wouldn't work so well.

Yeah.

So those were the biggest things that were a challenge for us. My wife recently had a scare where someone at her work tested positive for COVID, so she had to self-isolate for a while, so we got to experience what that was like. So she stayed in the extra room and kind of, you know, avoided us as much as possible. Not completely, but, you know, wore a mask around us, uh, until she got that all clear, which was about a week later. Uh, so that was an interesting little scenario to go through.

Oh, fun.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's— I mean, that was smart, uh, so we We've homeschooled for a few years now, and I will say homeschooling, so much faster than public school. I grew up in public and private schools, and just the amount of time you just sit there kind of doing nothing, waiting for people to catch up, and just doing like busy work, right? Versus homeschool, like they literally get stuff knocked out in like sometimes an hour in a day, or some maybe 2, 3 hours, or it's just so much faster than school, which for a homeschool life— and we're business owners as well— it was nice because we can go to the beach and, and, you know, have lunches together as a family and all that. And, you know, like you guys are doing, going out and, you know, getting outside and having fun. A little harder when there's COVID, I guess, because there's less you can actually do. Did the beaches ever open back up? I know they were shut down for a little bit when we were there.

Yeah, they opened back up, and I was really surprised that they closed them in the first place. I understand because it was spring break and there were a lot of you know, people that weren't thinking too well and, you know, were just essentially flocking to the beaches. But I see, you know, the ocean— a lot of people move here just for mental health and to be able to go out and exercise and things like that. So I thought that that was a vital thing that should have been kept open.

So that's one thing I was going to kind of get to, and seems like you guys are trying to curb that, is, um, you know, you mentioned mental health. I feel like kids being cooped up and isolated and not around other people and not socializing and not— it's just, it's, it's super weird to me. Something I would never want to do to my kids regardless of what's going on out there. Um, and I feel like it's going to hinder some kids or mess them up a little bit, maybe not permanently, but it just feels so, so wrong to me. I don't know, is that something you guys felt the same way?

That's why you guys were trying to get out, or Yeah, definitely, especially for our youngest because he's very outgoing and really enjoys interacting with other kids. Our older one, you know, he's, you know, very adept to be by himself and can sit and draw all day long. But our younger one really needs that interaction with people. So we were definitely trying to get them out. We continued visiting, you know, my parents and my mother-in-law, letting them see them. Uh, even though a lot of people said don't go around old people, um, we were like, you know what, we'd— they'd rather see the kids and enjoy that time than, you know, have the alternative where what if they waited, you know, 6 months and then something happens and they never get to see them. So we, uh, we just took that. And, um, you know, my mother-in-law does a great job of not only spending time with them but also like learning with them, teaching them different things. Um, and my, my parents had just moved down here last, uh, fall, so they're really enjoying getting that extra time with the kids.

That's good. Yeah, we, I mean, we ended up kind of doing the same thing. The grandparents just weren't scared and just, we kept seeing them and, and, you know, we kind of kept to ourselves from like strangers and things like that, but family still saw family. Uh, and in our neighborhood, uh, you know, we, we have homeschool, we we have kind of a tight-knit group around our house, like our neighbors next to us, and we all have young kids. And so we're kind of like isolated— can you see my hand here? Isolated. And so, because all the kids were, you know, they were still playing with each other and doing whatnot, we just did it as a, you know, we're just one large big family essentially. And so we were still able to like have dinners at each other's houses and all, but it was really just, you know, the three households of us just, uh, um you know, kind of doing it all together. So they stayed really social and got to play with friends and hang out and, you know, run across the street to their friend's house and watch TV shows or jump on the trampoline or get in the pool or, you know, whatever it is. So I couldn't imagine if, uh, you know, we had all locked each other in our houses with their friends 5 feet away and just— I probably would have scarred them for life or something like that. Therapy bills next year. Yeah, especially with us leaving, because then we would have like not be able to see them and then leave for a couple years. It would have been, uh It would have been rough, right?

Yeah, our other saving grace was we joined a, um, a boating club. So essentially back in like February, January, uh, so that didn't shut down at all. So we were able to go out on the boat and there's not a lot of people out and the kids loved it. They were able to tube and swim and, you know, kind of get out. So it was a blessing that we were able to do that.

Great time to have a boat or be in a boating club. We never joined the clubs. We thought about it a few times, but man, that sounds— that's nice. You don't have to own it, you just show up, they have the boat ready for you, you hop in, return it, leave. You have to pull it out of the water, clean it, figure out why the engine's not starting, all that kind of stuff. So you guys enjoy that?

Yeah, we do. We've, uh, really enjoyed it and been able to take my dad out and, uh, the kids, so it's been a lot of fun.

That's good. Yeah, we might have to do that. I never ever ever ever ever want to own a boat. Yeah, just— I, I— you hear so many horror stories about it, but I think one of those boat clubs might be nice. We rent them every once in a while, but I guess the only thing about the club is you just— you'd have to use it all the time, I feel like, to feel like you're getting the value out of it.

Yeah, it's not too bad. And, um, you know, the one that we're a part of, it's called a Carefree Boat Club, and they have locations all over the country, so you can use reciprocal. So if I go up to like, say, Lake Lanier up in, in Jackson, uh, in Atlanta, I can rent a boat out of there, uh, through the club. And, you know, you just pay for the gas, so it's really great.

Sounds good. Uh, are you guys screening like internet and TV and movies and things like that and trying to keep their, their, their delicate little minds from being exposed to too much?

Uh, we, we've been done a pretty good job of, um really keep them off the electronics as much as possible. We let them, like, during school year, during the week, they don't touch any screens. And then on the weekend, we'll give them like a lot of amount of time. And essentially they have like Netflix and we have the parental controls on what they can watch. And they're pretty good about following that. My younger one, Drew, like, if he gets a hold of the iPad or something like that, he'll start to venture into YouTube and We'll have to keep an eye on him with that. The older ones, you know, he follows the rules by the, by the T, so he's very good about not kind of venturing out and looking for new things. So I think the biggest exposure they've actually gotten, it's been from their friends, you know, being at their houses or even their like friends' parents. We've had some that have, you know, some creative language that they use at times, so That's been more of the things that, you know, we've seen that we've had to kind of work around versus, you know, their behavior at home.

That's tough because different people just have different value systems, and what, like, is a bigger deal maybe to me is just not a big deal to them. Which we have, uh, as far as cursing goes, we have one grandmother and one aunt that just— they let it fly. So it's something we've just had the kind of deal. It's just not like we're going to go without seeing, you know, Grandma and Aunt. So, but my sister, you know, she grew up, you know, in Baltimore, in the bar scene, you know, downtown Baltimore and New York City and New Jersey and all that. So yeah, she knows a fair amount of colorful language, and it's just part of her natural— because in that area of the country, sure, you know, that whole Boston, New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, you know, that's just normal language. That's just an adjective. You know, to drop the F-bomb. It's not even— I'm not even sure they consider it a curse word. It's just another adjective, uh, and there's just no getting her to stop. It's just, you know, part of her normal day-to-day language. So, yeah, something I guess we just have to talk about and say, you know, she says it, you can't, right? Well, I don't curse a lot. I just— I've always held back on it. And my wife, um, you know, when she's mad at me, she'll curse, but, you know, It's just— we were— it just doesn't get said a lot in our house. Um, but yeah, certainly other houses, like I said, it's just language. Like, it's not even considered curse words or bad words anymore. Uh, we might be a little more of a prude household though.

Yeah, I think we're a little more conservative on that. Uh, my wife's probably the one that lets it out a little bit more than I do, just because she has a little more, uh, temper and, and quick trigger on that. So sometimes she won't even realize I'm like You know what you just said, right?

So the, so the devices, do the kids have their own, um, phones?

No.

Have you guys put any thought to that at all? Is there like an age you'll do it or a maturity level that you'll, you'll start?

I think it would be a teenager type age for them. Um, you know, we're essentially going to see how long can we push it off without them complaining too much about it. So, so far they've, they've been okay with, you know, the stuff that we've done in terms of not giving them screen time and then playing with a Wii that's, you know, 15 years old. And sure, um, excuse me, do they have tablets? They have an old iPad tablet that's, you know, super slow, so they can, uh, you know, play some free games on that, but, um, nothing that's modern really.

Cool, cool. Uh, I guess, what do you like to— like, do you guys have hobbies you all do together? It sounds like Oh, maybe getting out.

Yeah, yeah, we like to go to the beach, go boating, uh, go swimming, uh, stuff outdoors. We love traveling. Um, you know, that's been curtailed a little bit here, but we're going to be looking to see if we can get a place up in maybe Blue Ridge, uh, Georgia area, go up to the mountains, get a cabin, spend some time there. Uh, we've got a, you know, another family that has two kids the same age that we've, um, you know, visited at the beach and kind of spend some time with them. So that's typically what we like to do, spend time with the family or traveling.

Where do you guys like to travel?

So we've been to Cancún. We go up to Atlanta every year. We, we both used to live up there. Got some family in North Carolina. We like to go to the beach and we've been talking about taking the boys skiing for the first time so that now they're old enough that that'd be a good trip for them.

I was about to say, because you're not in diapers or anything anymore. Not you personally, the kid, right? So that's good. Yeah, you can start because we were just talking about that because we're up in, you know, Colorado and Utah. It's obviously summer, so we're not skiing, but you know, we're thinking maybe on the way back down south, uh, we're gonna kind of come across through the Dakotas and all that, but we might shoot over to Colorado again, uh, but if the slopes are open. So we have a 4-year-old, that's our youngest. I'm trying to get my hand movements like on the camera, it's weird with the phone. Um, we have a 4-year-old It's a little young. You can get them on skis, but you can't really do much. They can go down the bunny slopes, I guess, and get them started. But, um, we might need to fly a grandparent out for some babysitting.

Yeah, they don't even use poles at that age, right? They just kind of zip along.

Yeah, pizza slice to slow down, french fries to go faster. That's all they know.

We were out— my brother lives in Denver, and, uh, a few years ago we, we took the boys out there and we did a, um, dog sledding. But instead of taking a sled, because we went in the summer they pulled a golf cart, uh, which was pretty cool. I mean, they're flying like 25 miles an hour down a bumpy, like, mountain road. Uh, so that was a pretty cool experience. So it was, uh, outside of Breckenridge.

Okay, cool. That's, uh, that's what, West Denver, right? Yeah, let's check that out. That sounds actually kind of fun. Yeah, I wish I'd known about that before. I didn't even know that was a thing.

Yeah, we didn't either. We were up there and we're like, saw someone, uh, advertising it, so we're like, oh, let's go check it out.

Yeah, why not? Uh, are you guys gonna have any more kids?

No, we, we want to go with a man-on-man defense instead of having to go to zone.

Yeah. Uh, so 6 and 8, guys are still young. You guys having fun with them? I guess. What's your, uh When you first had a kid, so going back 8 years ago, what year was that? 2012, right?

I think it was, uh, '11 in October, so yeah.

Okay, uh, so 2011, like, how were you, uh, how old were you then?

So let's see, 36.

You were 36 then?

Yeah.

Okay, so you're 36, gonna be a father for the first time. I guess what was going through your head? Was that an excitement? Was that nervous? Was that, um, fear? What was the, uh, what was the mentality there?

I'd say I was pretty, uh, prepared for it. You know, we got married later in life and took a while before we, um, you know, decided to have kids. Uh, so we had a lot of friends that had, you know, children. Even though I never enjoyed like playing with other people's kids, you know, I was never like, oh, let me hang, you know, hold your baby and things like that. I think I was ready and, you know, we were really excited when it happened. And it's one of those things that like when once that happened, it's hard to remember what it was like before because everything changes.

Big time. You got to, you got to have most of your 20s and what, good chunk of your 30s without children. How long were you married for?

So let's see, 2008. So 4 or 5 years.

Oh, so you had a good long time just you and your wife, and, uh, you know, you got to do a lot of fun stuff, I'm assuming.

Yeah.

So we skipped that. We went straight from, you know, married as teenagers. We went, I think, about 4 years of marriage and then had a kid, which I like— I genuinely like feel like I recommend that for everybody, like, to be married long enough to really get to know your spouse and, and without throwing— because a baby just Like you said, it turns your life upside down. Everything's different from then on, and, uh, in a good way. Like, I'm not trying to push anybody away from it, it's just, it's different. You have something to care for, and you can't just, you know, someone run to Home Depot. Like, you have to make sure someone's watching the baby before you run to Home Depot, or if your wife's already out— because that almost happened to me. Gosh, I think we had like a 6-week-old, our oldest, and I almost like— I got— I left the house, he was napping. My wife had gone somewhere with like a friend or somewhere, maybe grocery shopping. I just wasn't used to it yet, so I went to go run to Home Depot or Lowe's or something real quick. I get in the car, I start to back out the driveway, I'm like, shit, I got a kid inside. Got a— it was, it was bizarre. I only did that once and I never actually left. Yeah, put it out there.

But, uh, that's better than the, uh, you know, the alternative, which are the people that take their kid with them and then leave them in the car. I've always been like, how do you do that? But I guess if you're, um, you know, who knows what frame of mind they're in when that happens.

I don't know, because I've never come close to doing that. No, there's never been a time where I left the car and didn't know I had a kid in there. But my kids were also loud and whiny. There really wasn't much choice of forgetting them. But yeah, gosh, thanks for bringing up that more morbid conversation.

Yeah, I was trying to make you look better.

Yeah, well, there you go. You did it. Um, so far all my kids have survived. That is a good thing.

So, um, how many kids do you have?

Uh, I got 3.

3?

Yeah, we got, uh, I'll tell you their ages as soon as I think of them.

I know you need like a quick cheat sheet.

All right, we got 4, we got 6, and we got a 9-year-old. So 4, 6, 9. When we left for the tour, we had a 3-year-old. A 6-year-old and a 9-year-old. So I got to say 3, 6, 9, damn near fine. One more time, but it's over. The kid had a birthday and ruined it, right?

Thanks a lot.

Yeah, but they're— they've enjoyed— and we left at this age for a reason because they, you know, they're not so old that us going away for 2 years and touring the country, um, was like uprooting them from like, you know, their teenage relationships. And there were no girlfriends or anything we had to like pull them away from to where there would be like resentment pointing us the whole time, right? And the youngest was, you know, old enough where he probably won't remember everything, but we're videotaping so much that like we're even watching the videotapes now of, of what we've been doing, and, you know, he can really remember it all. So, um, so we just felt like, you know, youngest is, is old enough not to— he's not in naps anymore, things like that. So we're not having to kind of cater to that. We can kind of still do most of the things we want to do. Um, at the same point, they'll all remember it and it'll be— we just felt like this was a great age and a great time for, uh, everyone to enjoy it, you know, best possible case. Yeah, if that makes sense. I know, weird.

I've got a buddy of mine who, uh, took his family on a tour around the world, and I think his kids are maybe like 9 and 12, and, um They toured around the world, and when they got done, he asked them like, what do you guys want to do next? And they said, let's do it again. Yeah, they're actually on their second rotation. Uh, they got, um, ended up having to, you know, shelter in place, I think, in somewhere off of Thailand, you know, once COVID hit. But, um, that, you know, there's worse places to be than at the beach and, you know, a beautiful paradise.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I feel like I'd rather be in America just for the medical care. Yeah, just in case you needed it. But oh yeah, someone's always got to upstage me. I think I'm awesome doing a tour around the country, around the world. Is that a local guy?

Yeah, uh, do you know Jeff Davis?

Nope. Nope.

Yeah, so he's the— from here in Jacksonville.

Is that part of the Winn-Dixie family, Davis's? No, no, not that lucky. That sounds fun. So where have they been going around the world?

Uh, they've been all over the place. Um, trying to think where he's at now, but they hit Europe and in Asia, worked their way back around. I think the last tail end that they hit was like South America and Central America. Um, and then for the second time around, I think they are hitting up their like, uh, top picks from the first trip.

Okay, so I'm curious about that because I wouldn't mind going around the world. I've never been— like, I've never seen our country first, so that was my first priority. Like, I knew Florida and like the I-95 corridor to Maryland, and that's about it. Um, so I'd never seen like the plains, I've never seen the Rockies and the West Coast and all that, and, uh, or a desert, things like that. So I definitely wanted to see our country first, and our country is freaking huge. Uh, Uh, but around the world, you know, it's something we definitely want to do one day. Uh, I feel like a 4-year-old is too young to take around the world, in my opinion. I, I just, I don't want to do it. Uh, even the 6-year-old, I'm not too sure about. I want them to be able to fend for themselves a little bit more. Um, and at the same point, I feel like if you— there's a lot of places you go to, I know you gotta like, you gotta get shotted up. I know I had a friend who went to a wedding in India and he had to do like a month's worth of— I don't know what you call it— inoculations maybe, or a bunch of shots or preparations for the trip. And that was just one of the countries, you know. I'm sure if you go to Africa it's different, or South America, or Central America. So, um, I might have to get a hold of him and ask him how that's going with, you know, a 9-year-old.

Yeah, I'd be happy to introduce you.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

So, um, you said you did a lot of, uh, stuff in Florida. We've been trying to hit up you know, some of the stuff here because there's so many springs and parks. Uh, like this year is the first time that we, you know, have gone to Huguenot and like Little and Big Talbot. So we've, we've been trying to hit some of those places that are within, you know, an hour or so of Jacksonville. Uh, so that's one of the things we've also been doing during this time is trying to, you know, explore some of these parks.

And there's so much in Florida, there really is. Uh, now it's all kind of the same, it's all water-based really for the most part. Uh, but yeah, springs are always fun for kids, you know, the ocean's always fun, uh, the river is always fun, uh, at least for our kids because, you know, like I said, we're Florida people, so we kind of grew up in water.

Nice.

Even everywhere we're going now, it seems to be— my wife really picks the camping destinations, they all seem to be water-based. So some of them we can get in, some of them we can't. Um, but yeah, there it's— there's so much of Florida to do. There really is. But like I said, you know, we're just saying the country's huge. I mean, you could spend months and months and months on each and every state and still not see everything, right? I mean, like you said, you go up to Georgia— I mean, Georgia alone, you know, we've been to Georgia, we've, we've seen Georgia. There's so many things in Georgia we still haven't seen. So it's— we just, we have such a big country, it amazes me. And now that we're actually driving and exploring it and seeing like the vast differences in like the geography and the landscape, it, it kind of blows my mind a little bit, but it's really cool. I like it.

Yeah, I have a friend of mine that had a really cool, um, thing that she would do with her kids. So they would say, you know, we're going to do one big trip this year, and then essentially have them vote on where they wanted to go, or they'd pick a place and say, all right, now the kids have to go and research find fun things that they want to do and then present it to the parents, and they'll do a family vote on what stuff they get to do. So essentially, they— she had her kids doing all the trip planning for them. So I thought that was a really cool idea that I'd like to start implementing with our kids.

I had a— I want to call him a friend, but an acquaintance, like we know of each other, we've just never really hung out. But I know he, uh, he's got a couple kids much older than me. I think he's in his 50s, uh, but they go on a big trip every year. And, uh, so what they do as a family is everyone writes down what they want on a piece of paper or where they want to go, and it can be pretty much anywhere within reason around the world. And, um, uh, they drop it in a hat and, uh, you know, so there's 4 or 5 selections in a hat that are all different, then they just pick one at random and that's where they go for the year. And they start planning and make it fit within their budget, of course. But, uh, I always thought that was pretty interesting. It was a good way for, uh, you know, but they're all older too, you know, teenage kids and whatnot. Yeah, I'm not giving my 4-year-old to say where we're going. He doesn't get to choose.

We're not going to Chuck E. Cheese again.

Yeah, we're over Chuck E. Cheese. But I like Chuck E. Cheese. I hadn't been there in forever, and we took him there like a year ago in Jacksonville. I actually kind of liked it. The food was terrible.

It was a lot better than what I remember growing up. It used to be like dark and a little creepy, but they kind of made it a little bit brighter.

It's— and they serve beer now. Yeah, I thought it would be a complete cesspool and like the kids were going to get kidnapped, something like that. And really, it actually wasn't that bad at all. Um, in fact, if we had had one in St. Augustine, we might have gone more often. But, you know, everything in Jacksonville is an hour drive, then we have to deal with Jacksonville traffic. And yeah, yeah, we're just a quaint little St. Augustine family that hates seeing cars in front of us.

Yeah, and that St. Augustine to Jacksonville, there always seems to be a wreck on that, uh, little stretch there.

Yeah, everyone's trying to escape Jacksonville. They're driving too fast. Get down to pleasant St. Augustine, which is not— which is no longer quaint and pleasant anymore. I don't know if you ever spent time in St.

Augustine, or like, we were down there last weekend.

So it's, uh, it's grown up so much and it's getting so crowded, starting to irritate me. I want everyone to go back where they came from. The problem is I'm not originally from St. Augustine, so if I institute that rule, then I have to leave too. Yeah, I don't want to do that.

That's, that's the challenge. Everyone, uh, they want all these new things in their, their cities or towns, and then when they get them, they're like, there's too many people here. It's like, well, you get those things as people come in, and then it's a catch-22.

So, well, and we keep getting voted like top tourist destination, you know, Nights of Lights, this and that. And, uh, you know, everyone visits and likes it and decides they want to come back here, right? Which I guess is okay. Uh, all right, so we gotta get back to fatherhood somehow.

Uh, yeah, so since you're a 100% dad, what, what types of things are you doing to, um, do you work on your skills as a dad on an ongoing basis? Is there anything that, um, you're doing in that area to improve?

Yeah, well, I mean, now I've, I've— so more so than probably anybody else, because now I am like, I've almost dedicated my current life to it, to just the constant thinking and, and preparation and talking to people like you and, and others and getting different perspectives and seeing what other people are doing. Um, so I'm spending a lot more time on it now than I ever have before. But it was kind of something— I always wanted to be a good dad. I don't know if that makes sense, but like, even like in my teenage years, I wanted to be married. I wanted to have you know, one wife and, you know, not have to deal with divorce because I, I had to deal with that. I was, I was a product of a divorced household. Um, you know, I didn't want my kids split up between houses. Um, you know, I didn't want to, you know, I have, uh, two half siblings, love them to death, but I didn't want that for my family unit, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

Um, like, I wanted all the kids to grow up together. Uh, I wanted mom and dad to be on the same team. And so it's something I always kind of made an effort towards, and I wanted to be a dad young because I wanted to, you know, partly selfish, but I wanted to be able to play and wrestle and fight and not be like, you know, too old where my knees hurt and things like that. Um, and the same point, selfishly, I kind of wanted to be done having kids by 30. That way when they graduated high school, I'd be 48, and then me and my wife could kind of jet around the world traveling without kids. So there's a little selfish part to that too, but sure. It's something, you know, if you want to be good at, you know, at investing, you study investing and you really kind of like focus on that and make efforts to be better at investing. And, you know, or good business marketing, you kind of study marketing, read marketing books and try and hone your craft. And that's something I've just always wanted. And so I think from the very get-go, I've always been very perceptive of what other fathers are doing that I thought were good and what other fathers were doing that I thought were bad. And I always tried to do my best in that sense and try and be the best father I could be. At the same point, the best husband I could be to keep the marriage together so we could have that opportunity to have the whole house together. And I didn't always do it great, and I still don't always do it great, but I certainly focus on it more now just because we're building a brand around it, and it'd be stupid not to know anything about it. But so I'm really looking at the next year or two as a tremendous learning experience for me, and to get different perspectives, uh, different perspectives on the world. So on, on how fathers act. Yeah, yeah.

I've been, uh, studying some different people that, you know, have some, you know, whether it's podcasts or, or, um, trainings on different ways to, you know, improve the way that you raise your kids. So there's a guy, Daniel Lozonis, who, uh, has a, a program called the Einstein Blueprint. So it's kind of teaching your kids how to think creatively and not, you know, remember things, but essentially learn how to learn. And he has some great resources in, in that program that I've kind of read through and trying to implement with my kids. I'd like to do more of that, but I'm always looking for those different, you know, ways that I can, um, give my kids, you know, tools and resources that I didn't have, and, you know, give them experiences that open their perspectives and their, their view on the world, and trying to expose them to different types of people and different types of things, and really show them, you know, accountability and responsibility, and, you know, not give them things but have them find ways to earn them and really appreciate them.

Well, I mean, I agree with everything you said. So the, uh, you know, so I, I've always been kind of torn between, uh, you know, you want to mold your kids in a certain way because the parental impact does have a huge impact on their lives. I mean, uh, you know, what is it, nature versus nurture? You know, both are into play. It's not one versus the other. And so, uh, you know, I think, you know, dads and moms can have a huge impact on the direction of their kids' lives, and I think that's been pretty well proven. At the same point, you know, each kid has their own personality and skill set and talents. And so, like, I was just talking to somebody, it was about 6 or 7 months ago, um, the dad, much older dad, um, kind of more old school. His kids are going into college. I think one of them's even graduated college, but like he forced them into engineering, like they didn't have a choice. He made them go to what school he wanted them to go to. He made them do an engineering track. Um, I think one of them was kind of good at it and wanted to do that, and the other didn't. He forced it anyway. And I think, you know, I just— I felt that was so wrong. Like, right, like, like, it's one thing to guide and kind of push in one direction. It's another thing just to force it hands down, because I think that's going to end up building a tons of resentment. And right, just that a kid who doesn't want to do it and doesn't have talents for it is just going to be unhappy in life, and then you're going to start to resent his parents for even pushing him down that track where he might have been a lot more, or probably would have been a lot more successful and a lot happier had he been able to kind of pick and choose what fits him better. Uh, right. Um, but yeah, I think the ability to introduce them into, into like you said, things you never got introduced to, to give them choices to find out where their skills and talents lay, I think is probably one of the best things you can do. And obviously the more success you have, the more able you're to do that. You know, it's a little harder when you're lower income, things like that, to be taking your kid around the country or around the world or to really give them more of those opportunities. But even then, just not to limit their limit their, uh, ability to learn and things like that. You know, you were mentioning you want them to be, it seems like, more of an independent thinker. And, um, you know, I feel like in our household— are you an entrepreneur? Did you start your company?

Yes. Yeah.

So, so I think for like our, our mindsets, you and I, uh, that's going to come a lot more natural. Just because that's the way we kind of think. Like, I can't work for somebody else. It's very difficult for me just because I always feel like I'm right. And like, I just, I think a little bit differently, and I'm just, and I'm so 100% sure that it's right. So even when I'm wrong, I think I'm right. But I'm just used to like being able to pick my way and going against the grain and things like that, and it's worked out well for me. Um, but like, I have that natural thought process that, that, you know I don't want to say it was forced on me or anything like that, but like, you know, I was given that opportunity. Um, you know, I remember I didn't even— I didn't even know what an entrepreneur was, uh, until after I was already one. Uh, you know, I just thought I was a business guy. The— well, maybe I was like 10 years old or something like that. My dad and my stepmom got me a, uh, like a start your own— start your own lawn mowing business, like, box. I think they got it like at the, you know, those little kiosks in the malls back in the day, right? I think it was like one of those start a business kits, and like I just fell in love with it after that. Like the ability to— and I grew up in like 25 different houses and went to like 20 different schools, so I always had to start over. And so I think that's like why I am the way I am now, is it was a natural talent for me. At the same time, I would start a lawn mowing business, I would build it up a little bit, and then we moved. So then I would just have to shut it down and start a whole nother one again, and then we'd move and I'd have to shut it down and start a whole nother one again.

And, uh, if you could go back, you'd be like, oh, sell it to a kid in the neighborhood.

So my biggest regret, and, uh, uh, I blame my dad for it because in 8th grade I was making really good money in Jupiter, Florida. I had a bunch of houses I was mowing. Like, it was, it was amazing. Uh, but a kid wanted to come work for me. He like knew how much money I was making. He's like, can I come mow lawns with you? I was like, absolutely. Like, let's do this. I told my dad and he's like, no, you don't want to hire other people, uh, because he won't do as good of a job as you. It's going to affect your reputation. And so I didn't, and I didn't get to sell it, of course, because we moved shortly after that to St. Augustine. Uh, so I'd always just have to shut it down. But that's kind of one of my one regrets. I wish I, I had been able to practice hiring and training younger and start building my businesses that way. Because I almost— I like the way my life has turned out, but I almost want to— that's been my biggest struggle in life is hiring and training. Yeah, like in my business world, just because like I said, I, I put so much pressure on myself to do everything perfectly that almost no one can come up to my standards, and I just never trained for that. And that's something I think is like so iron stamped into my head, that conversation, and I know it's wrong, so, but it's still something I just I've never been great at overcoming. I still hire and I still train. I just didn't get as good at it as I feel like I wish I could have been.

I think that's one of the top challenges of all business owners. And it's funny you mentioned that because I see that all the time. But my son, my older son loves drawing, so, and then he would, you know, want to buy things. I'm like, well, why don't you find some ways to make money? And he's like, oh, 'How am I supposed to make money?' I said, 'Why don't you sell your art?' So he actually took his stuff out in the front driveway, I think it was like 2 years ago, and put up a sign and was, you know, selling artwork from the front of the house. And I think he made like $20 or $30 in the first day that he did it. And I was like, 'Awesome.' And from that point on, like, you know, almost every day be like, 'Hey, can I go sell?' And I'm like, 'You know, it's a little raining.' But at the same time, I didn't want to, you know, discourage them. So I try to get, you know, let them do it as much as possible. But I was really proud of him for being able to go out there and step up and do that.

So he might have that natural skill for it. So my oldest was the same way and still is. And he, uh, he— so we actually got in trouble with it. He always wanted to sell stuff, so we got him— like, we started him off in a little gumball business and did well. Um, he just sold that. Uh, but he would— he loves selling stuff on the front yard. And one time we caught him He had just gone around our house collecting stuff and was out in the front yard selling it. And like, he's like, you know, $30, $40, $50 decorations he's selling for like a buck because they're free to him to neighbors. And so he got in big trouble from Mama for that. Like, you can't just steal other people's stuff and sell it, right? But, um, yeah, he— so we're not, we're not artists in our family. Yeah, the kids think they are, but art's not good enough to sell. Um, the— he likes selling drinks and things like that. Um, And, you know, I always told him, you know, use your cuteness and the fact that you're a kid. I mean, that's, that's great marketing and leverage. No one wants to say no to a cute 8-year-old who's smiling at them, so use it until you lose it. Um, but I guess he was out there too many days in a row and people stopped buying, like, you know, waters and Gatorades and sodas from him. So he just put them all in a little beach basket and just went door to door selling them. So customers are coming to you, I'm, you know or not coming to you, he just goes to them. And you know, he did that, he did that on his own. He, uh, uh, his little brother went to a, uh, like a church school like 3 days a week. And, uh, like every kid had to sell 10— what are those Christmas plants? Poinsettias?

Yeah.

Is that the red ones? Uh, so you had to sell 10. And we were like, we're not going door-to-door selling stuff, we'll just, we'll just buy all of them and just, you know, I think they're $10 a pop or something like that. And so Levi took— our oldest took them and went door to door and like put the $2 profit margin on them and just sold them door to door in his little wagon in our neighborhood. And I think he made like $20 off of it. Yeah. And just his brother got credit for the sales and he got to do a little business. So he's definitely our entrepreneur and just has a natural calling for it. And we'll definitely feed him as much as we can, as long as he's not stealing from mom and dad. I think we're good. But how's the other one? So how's your— what's your 6-year-old? Your 8-year-old likes to draw.

Yeah, so the, the 6-year-old is definitely more outgoing. He's, uh, like an attention-loving little boy. I mean, he just like, you know, gleams anytime he can get some attention. So he's, uh, he's into making money too, but he likes to, uh, do the selling and have Alex do the actual work on it. So he's, he's like, hey Alex, why don't you draw this and I'll go sell it. So that might be a good, uh, little partnership moving on. Uh, so Alex is definitely more competitive and, and, um, you know, enjoys, uh, doing the art side of it. And then Drew just loves people, so I think they could be a great little combo.

Yeah, I'll tell you what, the, you know, I feel like when we were growing up, like, if you were an artist, like, it was like a dead career. Like, people didn't want you going into that because, you know, you'll just be broke forever, but you get to do art. Um, I feel like that's completely shifted now, especially if like you can digitalize, you can, you can take that artistic talent and go to like an online medium. Because I feel like graphic designers right now and website designers and, you know, wedding photographers and videographers and all that kind of stuff, drone footage people, um, I feel like that's such a desirable skill right now to have. Like people all over are hiring, um Man, if he can translate it, he's got a— he's got a good future and tons of freedom to go with it.

Yeah, the challenge with that, and I've tried to instill this to him, you know, as early as I could, is that you don't price on what you think they'll pay you. You price on the value that you want to, uh, pull out of it. Uh, so he was selling his art for like $20, and, you know, people are coming up thinking it's gonna be a dollar, and he's like, uh, well, this one's $20, this one's $10, this one's $5. Uh, so, you know, I told him, you know, if they don't buy it, that's fine. You know, it's better off to sell 1 for $20 than 20 for $1. Uh, so he's got that in his mind. Um, you know, my background is art and graphic design. Uh, so it wasn't until high school that I realized that I could translate that art into a career of graphic design. But even designers, a lot of them are undervaluing themselves too, especially with overseas, um, artists that, you know, charge $35 an hour. So, um, it's something that a lot of people have to understand their own value and, and find the right clients versus, you know, just taking what someone will give them.

You could also go the Kincaid route. You just take that one drawing, throw it on the photocopy machine, have your little brother color it in, and sell a million of them for a dollar.

There you go.

Yeah. Um, oh, that's funny. Yeah, the, you know, I genuinely feel like Finding their natural skills and talents and what they're good at and kind of honing those and, you know, not penalizing them is going to result in a much better life for them. Because I feel like nowadays it really doesn't matter what you do anymore. There's, there's ways to monetize it. And, you know, where that may not have been the case, you know, in the '80s and '90s growing up, just the online world is, you know, I was talking with a guy about it the other day, video games. Like, the fact that video games is a career now blows my mind. But it is like 100% valid. And if your kid's really good at video games and likes them and makes them happy, then my gosh, let them become a professional gamer, right? It's not, it's not shameful. It's not like he's gonna be sitting in your, your basement playing them broke asking for Cheetos all day long. Like, he's probably gonna have his own house he paid for cash because you can make good money as a gamer if you're good at it.

Yeah, especially with, uh, sports getting pulled back. I'm sure a lot of people are going to be, you know, shifting their you know, their, their betting habits. And I'm sure they'll move that money over to—

can you bet on video games?

I'm sure you can. I'm sure there's some way to.

That's funny. But yeah, so I mean, it's just, it's interesting to see how like the, the older generation is still kind of crapping on, uh, you know, like my dad was making fun of the kids because they like to watch, uh, um It's called Castles of Illusion. It's like a Mickey Mouse video game. And, uh, they like to watch video games being played by other people that are really good at it, and they do it so they can learn how to do it and they can become better at the Mickey Mouse game. And my father just thought it was like the stupidest thing in the world. I'm like, meanwhile, this guy who's made these video games has like 10 million views and probably makes a fortune off of that one video alone, right? I'm like, but it's, it's, it's no different than sports. No different. You know, you're watching someone do what they're good at so you can become better. I mean, it's no different than us growing up watching football or baseball and then watching someone else play and then kind of figuring out how you can almost mimic that and do a better job yourself when you go out in the field and play. And, uh, it's just funny how different, different generations is— they don't seem to grasp it.

Yeah. It's funny you mentioned that, uh, growing up, you know, I had Nintendo and played like Zelda and, you know, some of the old original Nintendo games. And since I could draw, I would draw out all the maps for the different levels, and then I'd sell them to people at school. But what happened was then Nintendo started— they'd make those magazines that they'd have them, and they're like professionally done, and they like totally put me out of business. But, uh, you know, nowadays, like with a, you know, video and YouTube that you've expanded the, the reach of who you can have as a market. And that's why, as you're saying, now people can monetize that on a level that they could never do before. And someone that had a very niche product that there wouldn't be enough people, say, in Idaho that would like it, but now that they can market it out to the whole world, they can find that small group that can sustain that, that product that they have.

Yeah, I think, you know, now more than ever, to kind of push their kids to do what they genuinely like to do and are talented at is, is is the way to go. And forcing them down the path— like I said, that other dad forced them down the path into engineering because engineering was the way to do it in the '70s, that you would make a lucrative career, right? Um, I remember what he said too. He said, I don't care if my kids hate me, as long as they hate me while making $100 grand a year. It's just— it's not that hard to make good money anymore. Like, photographers can do it. In Florida, crap, you can mow lawns and make $100 grand a year. Yeah, you know, if you're good at mowing lawns, there's plenty to mow. Uh, I mean, obviously takes time to build up there, but you know, same thing as an engineer. It's not like you start out at that, right?

Speaking of money, um, in terms of, uh, finances with your kid, how have you been kind of teaching them, um, lessons about money?

We're pretty transparent. About how we kind of live our lives. And we're very— I got in trouble with credit cards when I was young, starting my business, because a banker told me that's how it's supposed to be done. So I think I went in there to try and get a loan to kind of help, like we're going to get a big client to buy some equipment. He said, banks will never loan to you because you're a new business. What every good business owner does is gets a whole bunch of credit cards, and that's how they fund their business in the beginning. I still know his name. He's still in that St. Augustine market. I'll never forget it because then that's what I did, and it got me in stupid trouble. Um, uh, so we've been very debt-free, and we just pay for cash and, um, uh, everything in our whole life. And so we've kind of been very transparent with the kids, like, you know, we don't do payments, we just buy it. You know, this RV and this truck in our house, like, they're paid for, and If we can't pay for it, we don't buy it. And we're still, you know, we're still pretty frugal people. I mean, we still are standing in line at the store and see a Snickers bar for $1.45, we're like, I'm not wasting my money on that.

Right.

You know, if I'm shopping on Amazon and there's a garden hose for, you know, $9.86 and one for $9.84, I still pick the $9.84 one. As long as they're remotely similar, right? So I mean, we're still pretty frugal, um, and we, we really monitor our expenses. But, um, them having their own business was really beneficial because then they, uh, they got to see both an initial investment, um, how you have to not spend all the money you receive because you have to buy more product or you have to do a repair How you have to kind of reserve for the future if you want to buy another machine to grow it and build it, or be prepared for when bad things do happen. If, you know, if that thing disappears and gets stolen, you have to be able to cover it. You know, if it breaks, you have to be able to buy the part. And so, and then they get to kind of watch the money that they've made disappear as they make some poor buying choices. So we kind of allow it but don't allow it. So we'll let them spend money, you know, that's theirs. Yeah, if they want to. And we kind of give them warnings of, hey, like, we're dealing with this right now. We're going to all these new cities all the time. And so Levi always wants to get a little souvenir, and we're, you know, we're letting them at the same time, but we're saying, hey, you know, you've got like $400 left, so like, you keep spending $20 and that's going to be gone, what, 10, 15 trips, and you're not making money anymore. So you've got to learn how to make this thing last. So control your desires. Your impulses and, and, you know, maybe buy lesser expensive things. That's what he went from buying the keychains to buying like little— there's little really tiny bumper stickers and things like that.

And, um, he's gonna get the penny that you can, uh, get pressed with the little design on it.

Yeah, so yeah, all that stuff. And now we figured if we go to the tourist places like the, um, you know, they have those like visitor centers is what they call them. So if you go to the visitor center, a lot of times they'll have like local restaurants or things like that. They're little like stickers and things they hand out for free. And so he's learned he can get those now, uh, for free and doesn't spend any money. But he found one the other day at a t-shirt shop. It was like one of those little rectangle stickers that said— we were in Utah, it was in Moab— and it said, Utah, but I'm taller. So like, it cracked him up so much he had to buy it. Uh, it was only a buck, so, you know, we're okay. But so, so in regards to finance, like, he's kind of learned a little bit how to make it and how to in a sense, run a very small business. And, and, you know, the investment aspect and reinvestment aspect and buying cost of goods sold and, and making sure you don't spend everything because you have things that will be due soon. Um, and, you know, how to separate kind of the profit for you versus, uh, you know, for the business. Uh, you know, controlling your expenses, realizing you don't have a lot coming in anymore because, you know, he's in the same spot we are. We don't work anymore, so we're, we're in a sense retired, which means our money has to, be invested well to be created. And he doesn't have enough to do that, to, you know, to create income streams, uh, at the same point, uh, you know, not spend it all into oblivion. So, so, you know, the 4-year-old's not getting any of this, but the 8-year-old's really aware financially of what's going on. And the 6-year-old kind of is getting little pieces of it.

But nice.

I think, I think we've done a really good job financially. Actually, I'm worried we talk about finances too much in our family because like, I see the way he thinks about it sometimes. I don't want it to be the only thing he thinks about, or that money is the only thing that matters. Um, and so we're trying to, like, put, you know, we're trying to put the perspective on of it's important, but it's not everything, right? Helped, but it's not everything. Like, we'll be happy if we're broke. Like, if we lose everything, we're still going to be happy because we're a family. You know, we, we have done things in a way that everything's paid for, but, you know, if we hit a pedestrian in the crosswalk and they sue us and take everything you know, and get through all the corporate, you know, protections, you know, we just start over. You know, we're still together as a family, and, and, uh, you know, you can always make more money, uh, but we won't let it destroy us. We're not going to go into oppression just because, because we got broke. So we'll just get back to work.

I like that. Yeah, you teach them the, uh, the skills to be able to generate their own, then that's all they need. Yeah.

Yeah, as long as you— I think the fear— because we've been having a lot of discussions about fear because of COVID and everything else going on. Um, they're not super aware of what's going on, uh, with COVID and all the race stuff and, and the political, because they're 8. But every once in a while they hear stuff that other adults are saying in a campground or see a shirt or a billboard or things like that. And the 8-year-olds were the only ones that ask questions, or some other kids will say something about something. And so we have to have this kind of discussions of, uh, uh, fear, which, you know, kind of— we've had the discussions in regards to finance, like, we're just not gonna be scared if we lose everything, you know. We're not gonna be scared of just everything in life. Like, what's the worst case scenario, right? Everything goes— or worst case scenario, someone dies. Like, that would suck, but you still gotta— just the, the ability to be happy minus stuff is, uh, is more important.

Yeah, we got our, uh, kids the, um, the little savings banks that have like 4 different tiers. So it's like, you know, spend, save, share, and, um, I think we have another one that's like college. So they, they're taking a percentage of any time that they get money and break it out.

That's smart, you're making them pay for college. Yeah, genius. All right, so what were the 4 segments?

Uh, so the 3 are, uh, share, spend, and save. And then we added one that's college.

So spend, save. So what's the share one?

So share is like, um, you know, like nonprofits, or if there's a fundraiser or someone, uh, if they want to give it to a charity.

Okay, like charitable giving. Okay, yeah, that's good. Yeah, so we've talked about that because we tithe. We give 10% to our church. Um, I'm not sure we've actually— we— I know we've had that discussions. I'm not sure we ever did it with his money. I know we talked about it. Uh, gosh, yeah, maybe Dad here might have failed on that one. I know we've talked about— I'm not sure we actually did it because we would have— like, we don't tithe on every, uh— your business. I don't know if you ever faced this, but like, the way our money came in And we were structured as an S-corp. So like it would come to us and I preferred to keep it out of the business holding, but we would put it back in when the business needed it. And like towards the end of the year, that's what we would do. So a lot of it like would come back to us, but then we put it back in. And so it was just kind of like, you know, a bunch of transfers. So we wouldn't tithe until the end because we didn't know if the business would need it. And more than likely, we were always reinvesting in it to help it grow. Um, and so we did our calculations at the end of the year and then just wrote the church a big check. Um, and so that's probably what we meant to do with him too, is at the end of the year. I'm not sure we ever did it. Yeah, I feel like a failure on that. I might have to go back and figure that out. But did you guys ever do that way too, where like it's always kind of back and forth between, you know, your personal and your business?

And yeah, because it's like figuring out what the tax is going to be. And, you know, different times of the year you've got different kind of flows of business coming in. So it's always a juggling act.

Yeah, that and I was just— I was perpetually reinvesting and I like to do it in big chunks. That was just my style of like to build up a big pile of cash and then spend a good portion of it into something that will then generate more.

Right.

My wife has always hated that, but she's also accepted it. It's done well for us, and then that's kind of just how I roll. Yeah, but yeah, it makes, it makes those kind of calculations frustrating. So, and then you got, you know, like you said, you know, dealing with taxes, and you got to make sure you do it for a certain time period to make sure it counts and things like that, and make sure it gets, uh, you know, if we're buying equipment, it's got to be like in the field and in use before the end of the year. That way it counts for that year. Otherwise it won't count, you know, things like that. Stupid, stupid amounts of rules we have to follow. Are you guys giving, um, allowances or things like that, or are they just making their money off selling art?

Uh, so they, they do some where they generate their own. Um, when they go to their, their grandmother's house, they get some, you know, for doing reading and, and other things. Um, We'll do sometimes where we'll give them rewards for like chores, um, but it's not a specific standard. Like, they don't have an allowance that we're doing each week or anything like that, so we just kind of, uh, do it ad hoc.

Yeah, I haven't done allowances or anything like that or pay for chores yet. We just kind of made them do them.

Yeah, yeah, they definitely have, um, their main chores that they do all the time. It's just for like special things, like if, if I'm like, hey, I'm working on this, if you guys help me, we'll give you, you know, some money on it.

Yeah, but so I've tried that a few times and apparently I'm very cheap on my labor, so they know how much they can, uh, make elsewhere.

So they're like, the going rate is—

I'm like, if you clean my truck, I'll give you a dollar. They're like, how about $50? I'm like, are you kidding me? No, I'll give you $1.50 and that's it. And then they just don't do it. At the same point, like, kid, you're not good at cleaning cars. Like, I've seen you clean a car before, you're terrible at it.

Dirtier when you're done.

Yeah, so he wants to do that for his next business. He wants to clean RVs, uh, so we're at all these RV places, so if he can just clean them— because it costs a fortune to get your RV cleaned. Yeah, I've been trying to tell him, man, you're just not good enough to charge for that yet. Like, you've got to do a much better job cleaning Dad's, and then you can go try and charge somebody. But yeah, he's definitely an entrepreneurial spirit. Uh, we do need to get into that giving, uh, better. They know Mom and Dad do it, and we do almost all of it through our church. Um, but yeah, man, I think we've really dropped the ball on that. You've reminded me of it, and I just kind of forgot about it. And get them giving. How much do you let them spend? All of it or just portions of it?

Yeah, just portions. They're, they're pretty good about not blowing it all the time. Um, like, I don't know how we've been able to help them develop the, like, delay, uh, delayed gratification. So, like, you know, Halloween, we'll have them eat a little bit of candy at a time, like, whereas, you know, most kids will, like, devour it in one night. Will be around Valentine's Day and still have leftover candy from Halloween. So they're pretty used to, you know, taking and letting things grow over time. So, you know, they've been really content with what they have and grateful. So they haven't really found that thing that they're, you know, yearning to buy.

Building it, building impulse control, I think, is a huge, huge thing you could do. I mean, that's— it sounds like you guys are doing and they have it. I think that's, I think that's the fall of a lot of people. It's just the inability to control their, their desires and emotions. And, you know, the 'I want it now' kind of feeling. And whether, you know, that's in regards to finances or eating or, you know, sex or drug gratification, whatever it is, I think the ability to say no even when you kind of want something is, is a I think it's an underrated skill, and I'm not exactly sure how exactly to really build that in a kid. But like you said, you know, having even something simple as like the candies and just having them there, but the ability to say no when it is there. Um, I'm probably not a good teacher of that. My wife just bought me a thing Oreos for the first time in like a year or two, and that sucker was gone within like 2 hours, the whole pack. Yeah, she did right. She got the Double Stuf, and the Double Stufs are perfect.

I always thought with the, uh, Girl Scout cookies that someone should buy a whole bunch of them and freeze them and then bring them out like, you know, in the middle of the year between when they're actually sold and sell them for double the price.

Yeah, they do that. They're year-round now, aren't they?

I don't know.

I swear, because I've seen them at like the grocery store, the green box with— I've never been big in the girl— I'm not even sure I've ever tasted one. Yeah, but I know, like, I've seen the boxes before, and I know, like, the fudge mint ones are, like, the popular. And I think anybody that puts mint and chocolate should be sent to hell straight away. Same with coconut. Just don't do it. Like, that's a great way to ruin chocolate.

Back to the delayed gratification. I, I don't know if this is how it happened with our youngest, but I know anytime he asks something, before we even answer, he goes, 'I know.' we'll see, because that's kind of our answer to everything. So I think he's used to that delay regardless of what it is he's asking. We're like, we'll see.

Yeah, we say no a lot, but the kids also ask for a lot. So I feel like my default answer is usually no. Can we do this? No.

Maybe.

We'll see. Um, it's really— food is a big one. Uh, spending money is a big one. I guess that's how you really root it when they're young. Yeah, it's a— I mean, something you really can't teach with drugs and sex. I mean, that'd be, first of all, super awkward with the kid age, but hopefully you can just kind of, you know, maybe hone that muscle, that, that skill, the ability to say no to yourself.

Yeah.

And that way, when you get to those ages and those opportunities, that, uh, you can say no. I don't know, can you think of any other way? I mean, I feel like food and money are the big ones.

Yeah, I agree with that. Um, And it reminds me of, I didn't drink until I got to college. And for whatever reason, uh, I think it was I saw people getting in trouble and it kind of ruining some lives, so I was like, I don't want to do that. And then by having that delayed until I actually did it, it got to a point where I knew I, you know, I didn't have to drink to have a good time and all those things. So by the time I did drink, you know, even though I did you know, heavily at first, I still was able not to let it kind of, you know, carry me where, you know, every time I drink I had to have, you know, like 6 beers or something like that.

Yeah. So I started drinking probably when I was like 14. I think I was like 8th grade or something like that. Not like drinking, drinking, but that was like the first time I had a drink. And then, you know, parties or friend's house sneaking it, something like that. Not like I had a 6-pack in the fridge all the time. Um, but we definitely drank in high school at parties and things like that because I was in like the athletic crowd, and that's just, you know, after football games is what you want. You just want to go party, drink a ton. I probably didn't drink again for like 4 or 5 weeks just because like I didn't like that feeling. And that's still true to this day. Like every once in a while go to like a concert and I'll just— whoops, went way too far. And then like I just don't want to touch alcohol for like months and months and months. It's just That might be my all-or-nothing personality. Um, but man, so I've met some people, um, and one of them was a, an AA guy, and he was just saying like, you still get that feeling, but then like they drink their way out of it. And I just like, I, I feel bad for that personality. That might be more of like an addictive personality. Yeah. To where I guess that is the, the, you know, the thing that causes the pain is also the cure. Yeah, so like one of my things in life, I never want my kids to get there. Like, if they're going to drink behind my back as teenagers, like, I want them to know my experiences to where, you know, that Dad has had too much to drink when he was in high school, in college, and then like never wanted— like, I give— go ahead and give them the answer of, then I never wanted to touch it again for 3 months because you felt so crappy, right? You know, that you didn't want to do it anymore, versus letting them find out on their own they can drink their way out of it, and then, you know, that can really cause some problems down the line. Exactly. It's like, are you going to be having those discussions with them, or do you not mind if they have a drink as, you know, when they're in high school? Or I guess, what's your thought process going into that?

Um, I think we'll be open about discussing it. I don't think we'll be, um, allowing them to kind of drink, you know. If they do, it would be something where like we're at home and, you know, they can have like wine or or a drink with the family, but not like, hey, you can have your, you know, friends over here and you can drink here if you're going to drink. I knew some of those parents that were like, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen at our house. I'm like, that's not a smart idea if, you know, you have other kids coming there and something happens. Uh, so I think we'll, you know, try and curtail them. You know, obviously we don't know how that's going to go, so kind of wait and see when we get there. But I think we'll be open about it and you know, uh, speak to them and, you know, if they have friends doing it, talk about why we think it's not the right thing to do and, you know, kind of play it by there.

Yeah, I think the whys are important. Like when you do, especially in things like that, they're going to become like, you know, fitting in with the in-crowd, things like that. The why mom and dad feel this way, um, is so important versus the just don't do it. Yeah, you know, I think, I think that's big. Uh, And then the other thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is just making sure, like, so at the age my kids are now, you know, I've obviously been around their whole life, just continuing to form such a deep relationship with them, like a bond with them, to where, uh, you know, I'm still Dad, my way is still my way, you have to listen to me, and there's, there's discipline, there's corrections, there's— but there's also like a lot of love and bonding, uh, simultaneously, that when they get to those ages they're not fearful of me in that sense, that they are okay coming to me asking those things or talking about it or letting me know that these friends are, you know, doing drugs or drinking or, you know, engaging in sexual activity or whatever it is. Now I just, I'm increasingly beginning to feel that is so important to be able to have that bond early so that when those years come, they can come to you pretty openly and you can receive it in a way that's not like, you know, shocking, or you don't react in a way that makes them not want to ever come to you again, right? Um, at the same point, they get themselves in a situation where they, they know Dad doesn't agree with it, you know, they get drunk or whatever it is, or get in trouble. Um, you know, it's 3 o'clock in the morning, they're somewhere they shouldn't be, their friends are about to do something real stupid, they don't realize they don't want to be there anymore, that they can call Dad and Dad's going to withhold the being angry and just come, you know, kind of rescue his son.

Yeah.

And bring you back with— then simultaneously be able to say, listen, I'm proud of you for getting yourself out of that situation and calling me and knowing you can call me. At the same time, let's not ever get in that situation again. So that's probably what, um, you know, one of the big things I'm working towards right now is just being able to have that, that strong of a bond with them so that when these teenage years come— because I was a rough teenager— that we'll have that bond And, uh, you know, that familiarity with each other, um, to where they know they can come to me for— with awkward things, with, um, you know, things I don't agree with, and not just be chewed out or lectured or things like that, but still know where I stand and my beliefs in it and what I want for them. But at the same time, being able to, you know, come forward and be honest with me.

It's funny how those kind of generational shifts happen and the pendulum swings back and forth. But I'm like you, I want that kind of combination of, uh, still having discipline but still also being open and close. Whereas I think some of the older generations, there was never that affection and kind of love that was really open. Uh, but, but on the other side, it wasn't like no rules and just do what you want and I'm going to be here for you regardless.

Yeah, that's a great thing about where we live is it's so well documented now. That we get to see what does work and what doesn't work, you know, on that pendulum shift and find that, that, that sweet spot. Yeah. And, uh, and be able to run it simultaneously. It's— I, I think that's the ultimate challenge, um, which, you know, it also plays into your personality. You know, I feel like, um, us entrepreneurs, we're probably more apt to that because we're constantly balancing the you know, the perspective of, you know, running a business with employees and managing those different personalities and, and styles and dealing with customers and dealing with angry customers and happy customers and, you know, managing all these different things. I think it's more of a natural skill set for, for us versus, um, you know, other people that maybe don't have our personality sets where we're more able to go with the flow just because it's our natural set. You know, some people are more rigid stuck in their ways and they're, you know, you know, it just makes me think of like a factory worker, like I do this job, I repeat and I do this job and, you know, it's just more of a rigid mindset. And to be able to break out of that a little bit and maybe out of your comfort zone and go the other way, I think it makes, I feel like makes a more complete parent.

I think one of the things that set me up good, well for parenting was coaching water polo. I coached a a club water polo team at Georgia Tech. And, you know, I had like, say, like 20, 25 college kids anywhere from age of, you know, 18 right out of high school all the way up to some grad students and had a wide range of personality types. So I had to learn how to adapt and react to a wide array of personalities and learn, you know, what buttons worked with which people and how, you know, you know, which ones worked with a stick, which ones worked with a carrot, which ones, uh, you could yell out, which ones, uh, you had to kind of coddle. And having that, you know, that difference allowed me to be prepared to have my kids that have dramatically different personality types. So, um, you know, in hindsight, it— I can see now that that kind of helped me prepare. Uh, at the time, I, I didn't realize that was the case, but, um, I'm really glad I had that experience.

Give like a, a promo, I guess, about your business and where people can find you, what you do, or who would be a good fit for it, and we'll kind of end with that.

All right, sounds good. Uh, so great way to connect with me and my business, we've actually started a, uh, kind of a, a tribe of people that we call Growth Amplifiers. They're business owners that are looking to grow their business, uh, and serve a higher purpose and be able to elevate what they're doing and the people that they support and serve. So if you go to growthamplifiers.com, we've got a podcast with business owners and some other resources there to help businesses grow. It's a great way to connect with me and our other business owners.

Awesome. I appreciate you coming on.

I appreciate the opportunity.

Absolutely. Have a good day.

All right, take care.

Bye.