IWD- Mark Talks having 5 daughters and a recent Divorce

Multitasking. So I gotta, I gotta process what the question is and then what the answer is while doing a task.

Yeah, uh, cool.

All right, I don't know if it says live on your screen or not, but don't worry about that.

It does, it does. I see it.

So it's just recording, we're not actually live. Um, yeah, um, so we'll record, I'll edit it down any, any awkward pauses or goof-ups or anything like that. Or, you know, at the end of it you're like, man, hey, I said that thing about something and I really don't want that to be public, uh, then I'll edit it out.

No problem, no problem. So you put this on YouTube and on podcasts?

Yeah, so it goes audio and video.

All right. Do you ever put like little— obviously I just started following you, but You ever put up this little quick, you know, 15-second clips and be like, hey, to see the rest, go here, or in your story or anything like that?

I, I need to. Um, I've done a poor job of, uh, everything except memes. So I know we, we kill, we kill it at the meme game. Yeah, but like YouTube, we're not utilizing at all, and we should be. Uh, we basically just have our family videos up there. Um, and there's reason. I mean, it just, it takes a lot of intentional effort, and we have really been enjoying this life we have right now. And so I haven't been, uh, I guess forcing myself to work as much as, you know, on those specific things. And Instagram's just, it's been an easier vessel to work with.

Yeah, yeah, dude, I want to hear your story as much as maybe you want to hear my story. Is that on your YouTube channel, like how you got to where you're at and why you're doing what you're doing? Cool. Cool.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's somewhere. I mean, the, the basics of it are we sold our businesses in 2019. Yeah, that financially enabled us to retire. And so, you know, we can live off investments for as long as we want. And one of our, I guess you call it, you know, philanthropic or, or you know, a calling, or what else do you call it? Mission work, I guess. It's kind of this dad thing. And at some point we'll flip the script and, uh, probably try and turn it into a business because I don't want to feed this thing an insane amount of money forever. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, so that's, that's kind of what we're doing. And so now we get to kind of travel and stay together as a family and, you know, push out good dad content and You know, I just felt like it's a needed space. It's something that there's not a lot of loud voices out there. Most dad content is joke-related and/or sports-related. And there's just— I felt like there needed to be somewhere that good dads could go to. And when content's being pushed out, they can be like, yeah, I agree with that. And, you know, if they're struggling dads out there, they have somewhere to go where they can, you know, make some improvements.

When I was going through my divorce and separation and all that, I'm a big podcast guy. I love mountain biking, and, uh, I started listening to divorce podcasts, um, blended family podcasts. Like, I've, I've got a ton of good advice on some of those. Nothing specific for dads like this and things that I've actually used. I actually have this, this great girl I'm talking to right now, and I shared some of that with her the other day because she's got 2 kids and I got 5, and we're not that serious, but stuff came up and I was like, hey, I got this piece of advice once, I really like it, and I think it'd be beneficial.

So yeah, which I think that's, you know, we live in a world of such, such vast amount of information, uh, and a lot of people get offended by it because, you know, you hear some information. People like me, and I feel like people like you, hear that information and sit there and say, oh well, that would work well in my life. Or you might hear someone say, that doesn't apply to me or my life. Yeah, and some people get really offended by that, like, you put out information that doesn't apply to me, how dare you. But I mean, I, I think that's what all good, uh, you know, good fathers or good business owners or, uh, good humans, I guess, like, you filter out information that applies for you.

Yeah, absolutely.

And the more you put in there, the better perspective you're going to have.

Absolutely.

Give me the rundown. I know you have 5 daughters, um, I know you're divorced, um, obviously dating somebody else now, but kind of take me back a little bit. Give me some of the backstory and, and, you know, how long you were married and that kind of stuff, ages of the kids, what you do for work, that kind of stuff.

Uh, got married young, um, 23 years old when I got married. Married for 16 years, 5 kids, all girls. My oldest will be 19 in a few months. I have a 16-year-old, 14-year-old, 10-year-old, and a 5-year-old. So they run the gamut, amazing kids. Honestly, the marriage broke down at the end and there were struggles there, but a lot of it wasn't bad. I enjoyed it. So I was fortunate to be— go ahead.

Is the divorce recent?

Finalized slightly less than a year ago, separated for pretty much 2+ years before that though. Back and forth, off and on, trying to make it work for a bit early on. I kept trying to make it work for a long time. She stopped trying way sooner than I did. And I'll be honest, it was her doing early on, or her choice. She wasn't happy, started going to counseling, and got separated, you know, very shortly after that. Back and forth. It was more her back and forth, um, me trying, me trying, me trying, her back and forth, back and forth, and then her basically saying she was done.

Okay, so the, the, uh, the little one was probably what, about 2 years old at that point?

Uh, when it all started, the little one would have been 2 and a half, almost 3. Oh wait, hold on, do I have my numbers right? 16. Yeah, you're right too. Yep, right about the time she turned 2 is when stuff really went south.

Yep.

Okay.

Was any of that like postpartum related or anything like that?

Great question. No, not at all. I mean, I'll tell you, you know, if we want to get into the marriage breakdown, you know, married young. She was younger than I was. My oldest actually is not biologically mine. My oldest is hers that she had at 18 years old. When we got married, she was 19, I was 23. Her and I kind of grew up together. We grew up in a small town in California. Our families knew each other. When my oldest was 1 is when her and I kind of got together. I raised her since she was 1. We got married right away. And the reason I say that is because we got married young. We had a family before we got married, had kids again right away. And we didn't build a strong enough foundation. It's really about the foundation, and that's what ended up, you know, causing it. There's obviously a lot more stuff that can go on in a marriage— childhood upbringing, parents, etc.— that can kind of put, you know, make us who we are. But really, ultimately, we got married young. We didn't build a strong enough foundation. My fault as much as anyone's fault. I did not do a good enough job of identifying that, recognizing that.

And I mean, when there's a kid involved, it's hard to— it's hard to focus on you and me when there's a third that obviously needs you.

Yep, absolutely, absolutely. So, um, as far as the kid in the postpartum, we believe there was some postpartum after our fourth one. There's a big age gap between 4 and 5. Um, she thought she was done at 4 kids. I was fine with that. I'm one of 6 kids, so I love big families. I love kids. I mean, people think I'm crazy when they hear I have 5 daughters, and I love it. It's, it's the best thing on earth, hands down the best thing on earth. Also the toughest thing on earth, especially now being a single dad, is really, really difficult just from the standpoint of time and not being there and being involved as much as I would love. I try my hardest to do that, but yeah, it's a big age gap between 4 and 5. And yeah, the 5th one was a major, major blessing. Some difficulties with that one with the childbirth. She was born 6 weeks premature, spent a week in the NICU. 5 months later was back in the hospital with some sicknesses and some respiratory issues. I think that really took a toll on my, on my ex-wife. Um, she even said, even sick kids will do that. Exactly. And, you know, we, we had been very blessed that the first 4 pregnancies, child deliveries, young baby, all that stuff, for the most part were pretty smooth-ish, you know, never easy by any means, but no big issues, whereas that one was. Um, so a little bit more of the story is I had a stroke, uh, summer of 2017. Yeah, so 37 years old. Yep, yep, 37 years old. Found out I had high blood pressure about 8, 9 months before that and was stupid, didn't take care of it. And, uh, exactly, exactly. So I had a, had a stroke. I'm good now, but That's, that was really the tipping point, you could say, and things breaking down from our marriage. She actually did a phenomenal job. She took care of me. I had to walk with a walker. I had to learn how to swallow again.

Um, oh, there's a serious stroke.

Yeah, I was, I was in the ICU for a week after the stroke, and, uh, I was in the hospital for a week and a half and lost, you know, 30+ pounds. And, um, Yeah, it was not a recommended diet though. Not a recommended diet. Not a recommended diet. So, so that was super stressful, and maybe the marriage wasn't super solid at the time anyways. Um, didn't have the foundation like we talked about. And a few months later was when things really started to, to go down though.

So yeah, and that was after, um, the daughter was, you know, sick. Yeah, right.

So, so A year before that, the daughter had been in the hospital again after 5 months old.

So that's a lot of stress. I mean, a pregnancy, sick child, sick husband— that is a lot of stress back to back to back. And I'm assuming it was an unexpected child?

Uh, expected-ish. Not an accident. Not an accident, no. Okay. Uh, we, we knew what we were doing. Now, we weren't, you know—

okay, well, you said like getting pregnant, you said You said you wanted to stop at 4 and you're okay with it. So I assume that meant that—

whoops. Oh no. So I didn't elaborate on that. So yeah, I thought we were done at 4. I came from 6. I would have liked more. She came from 4, so she thought 4 was good. Everything was fine. And maybe in the back of her mind, maybe she wasn't super happy in the marriage or something. I don't know. My mom died a few years later and my mom and my wife, my ex-wife, were actually really close. And my mom, you know, we'd give my mom the most grandkids. We'd given her 4 grandkids and she loved that. And like we were talking about pregnancies and deliveries earlier, my ex's pregnancies and deliveries weren't the most difficult. And so my mom was always like, have more kids, have more kids. So my mom passed away, uh, shortly after that. My ex got her heartstrings tugged out a little bit. I said, all right, baby, we're not done. So, uh, had a miscarriage, uh, before we had our 5th. So yeah, we We were kind of trying. Okay.

Uh, the oldest, did you adopt her?

Uh, one of the biggest regrets in my life, I never fully went through the adoption. I did not. We got to the point, uh, we got to a point where we had attorneys and have everything drafted up and we're going through that, hit a couple bumps in the road, and I, uh, just didn't follow through as much as I should have and never fully did it.

So Was, was he the, uh, birth father involved?

Uh, the first year of her life he was kind of sort of involved, but was not involved and was not treating my ex-wife very well. And so when we got together, um, he just pretty much disappeared. I think once or twice he maybe kind of showed up, um, pretty much disappeared. My oldest knew the situation. Knew all that. She was, she was totally aware of it. Um, and yeah, he's, he's never, never been around.

Okay, so you— so she was raised, um, as you are? Like, she knew you weren't her birth dad, but you were her father, and you know, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

Okay.

Uh, it's 19 now, right?

She will be 19 in March. She graduated high school last year. Okay. Yep. She's awesome. She is We have a very unique bond, as you can imagine. She is a special, special girl. To brag about her a little bit, I tell my girls every year for Christmas, write me a letter, tell me what you like about life, what you like about things we've done, whatever it is, what's on your mind. 2 years ago, she actually did that, and she wrote me the most beautiful letter, you know, I've ever seen in my life about our relationship and how grateful she is and where she came from. And yeah, she's She's absolutely awesome.

That's cool. Going off to college?

Unique story there. So going through our divorce and, you know, divorce finalized a bit before she graduated. She got accepted to a few colleges. I was always talking to her about it, like, "Here, what do you wanna do? What do you wanna do?" And she wanted to go to UC Colorado Springs, Out-of-state tuition was really expensive and didn't get any scholarships, no financial stuff there. I couldn't do much financially for her at the time, so we talked about her going there to go to community college to establish residency, get a job, etc. She was looking to do that, but I think it just kind of caught up to her a little bit about the cost. There's just a lot going on in life, so She talked about staying home and just going to community college for a year and getting some of her credits done. At the very last minute, a really, really good family friend of ours, actually my old babysitter, lived in Utah. So my oldest loves the outdoors, she loves the mountains. That's why she wanted to go to UC Colorado Springs. In California, we're from California originally, now live in Texas. We used to go to the mountains all the time, she loved that. So anyways, so a really good family friend of ours is in St. George, Utah, and she offered for my oldest to come live with her for free and establish residency there and maybe go to Dixie State. So my oldest was like, sure, that sounds like a great idea. So she did it, lasted 2 weeks, and, uh, welcome to divorced parent life. Her mom said, sure, come home. Okay. I said, no, stay. You know, you've been there 2 weeks, work it out. You have, you know, an amazing opportunity, a free place to live with really special people. Uh, they actually had two kids that were similar to my oldest age that were still around town that introduced her to a lot of people, but she got homesick and mom said come home.

So yeah, um, so she was planning on doing community college here, or I guess where you're in Texas, right?

Yeah, north of Dallas.

Okay, I was just up there a few weeks ago.

Oh, right, where are we at?

Uh, so we were camping south of Dallas in, uh, between Dallas and Waco. Give me a second, there's some lake over there, I just can't think of the name right now.

Whitney?

Lake Whitney, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The only reason I know that lake is because they used to have a big motocross race there. Every— I've ridden motorcycles my entire life, they used to have big motorcycle races over here. It's the only reason I know that place.

Yep. So, uh, we were, we were camping in Lake Whitney. Um, so we did Waco and Fort Worth and Dallas, and we went up to North Dallas and, uh, saw the, uh, YouTube guys my kids love.

Oh, the basketball guys. Yeah, they live right by my old house where my kids still live. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Uh, so that's up in, uh, Frisco, I think.

That's the town I live in. I live in Frisco. Oh.

Yep. So we were up there. So they have some— they have some cool headquarters up there, I guess.

Yeah, Frisco. Frisco is really cool.

It's booming.

I mean, Cowboys just moved their headquarters here a few years ago. Uh, tons of businesses are moving here. Like, Frisco's just exploding.

So she's gonna do community college there, and I guess it's— yeah, I, I say that to a lot. I'm not thrilled on the idea of college anymore. Uh, I just don't think it's all that important if you have a career track. Now, if you're just gonna go do nothing, then yeah, go to college. You can at least be exposed to some different options, but it's so much cheaper. It is stupid cheap to go to community college. And it's all the exact same things the big school teach.

Absolutely, yeah, that's what I had told her from day one. I don't want her going into massive debt. I don't want her coming out of school with big student loans. And also, if you don't know exactly what you're gonna do, I know you said go and get exposed, But I don't want you to go to school and spend a bunch of money when you don't know exactly what you're gonna do. Like you said, get it done at community college. Get those credits done at community college, give yourself a year or two, and then go to a 4-year if you even need to do that. But hey, if you wanna be a chef, go to culinary school. You wanna be a hairdresser, go to cosmetology school. You wanna be a mechanic, go to a trade school. Don't just go and rack up debt just to go to school.

And those blue-collar careers, I mean, the earnings on those are going up and up. And it's always going to be like this seesaw effect because, you know, we just had generations of parents saying, don't work for a living, you know, find some— you'll get your degree, find some air-conditioned space for some big company and do that. And it's flawed. And now those positions are severely underpaid and, you know, they're coming out of school with tons of debt and You know, everyone looks down on the guy mowing lawns or cutting hair or, you know, whatever it is, and those guys are making bank.

Yeah, yeah.

Because nobody wants to do what they're doing.

Exactly. One of the great stories like that— I have a good friend of mine, his sister's a twin, they're from Long Island, New York, and her husband grew up in the same town around the Hamptons, but they were like the blue-collar people around the Hamptons. He started mowing lawns during the summer in the Hamptons. And everyone loved it. I mean, you know, he was— he's a white kid and spoke perfect English, and so he got this, you know, these jobs of mowing lawns. He turned that into a full lawn care business. He only works like 6 months out of the year because it's too cold in the winter, no one needs their lawn taken care of. He hires a bunch of local kids every summer to go out and do lawns. Guy makes, you know, multiple 6 figures every year and works 6 months out of the year. And he found an area that other people— and I'll say it— other white people would want to do the job. It's true, it is, it is.

Yeah, working for a living pays off real well, especially when you own the business, you can control it.

Exactly, exactly.

Uh, um, so you got, uh, let's see, 16, 16, 12, 10, and 5, right?

16, 14, 10, and 5. Yeah, so my 6 My 16-year-old is a junior in high school, uh, she's got a job, she works at Whataburger. Really good girl, totally different than her older sister, uh, but she's, she's a good kid.

I've got to ask, everyone in Texas swears by Whataburger, and so I went to one, I'm like, I don't— it's Five Guys is amazing, that, that's like the standard to me. It's like, what, an $8, $9 burger? Yeah, and it's really good. And like the Whataburger, it's a Jack in the Box, the all these places people swear by, I, I'm not impressed. But Whataburger has a cult following, at least here in Texas. I was hoping you could explain it to me.

I'm a California guy, so In-N-Out has a cult following in California.

Yeah, so, and I went to In-N-Out, and I don't think that's all that great either.

So I grew up on In-N-Out, and the thing is, it's what you grow up on, right? So when you grow up on something, you think it's all that great. The argument that I get in with people here that none of them can say anything about is like, tell me what is unique about a Whataburger. Oh, what, they put mustard on it? Like, okay. At least at In-N-Out, the bun is toasted, the bun is buttered, the bun's a little bit unique, and then they have that spread that they put on. At least it's unique. Whether you like it or not, at least it's unique. Whereas with Whataburger, it could be Burger King, it could be Jack in the Box, it could be Hardee's, it could be Carl's Jr. The Whataburger burger is just burger.

Yeah, I agree. I felt that way about In-N-Out though too. Like, I wouldn't say no to it. Like, if somebody wants to go there, I'll eat there.

Uh, yeah, yeah.

I— there's no way I'm craving— and if I want a really good burger, if there's a Five Guys nearby, that's where I'm going. And I didn't grow up on Five Guys because they didn't exist back then. I just— I think it's just a, you know, it's something close to what I would make at home. It's a good, just, daggum burger.

Yeah, it is. I will tell you and agree with you that it is a better overall burger for the sake of being a burger. I just think In-N-Out is unique in a standpoint, not that the burger is more flavorful or that the way they prepare it, the things they put on it has a uniqueness to it.

Okay, but Whataburger, like, we're on agreement, like, Whataburger, I don't, I don't understand what the fuss is about.

Yeah, you know, hopefully they don't watch us and shoot me down, but Honestly, the staff—

I hope they do because I want to know. Like, I want to know what's so good about it. Maybe I missed something.

Their staff isn't that great either. Like, my daughter works there and she's like, I work with some idiots. Like, when you go to In-N-Out, it's, it's kind of like Chick-fil-A. Like, the people there like really take care of you. That's important to me. You're gonna get my money, you're gonna get my money, give me some good service.

Yeah, I've always— I've been always impressed by Chick-fil-A. I've been to one bad one. Really? But yeah, how they can get teenagers, uh, to be so good at what they do, it's impressive.

Yeah, did you see all those jokes with the whole freaking coronavirus thing or whatever, the stimulus checks or whatever? They're like, just give it to the Chick-fil-A people, that they'll execute it, they'll get it handled.

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, so there's, there's real truth to that.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, they have. I mean, Chick-fil-A's got a cult following too, and there's been a few people that have said the same thing that I'm saying about Whataburger, about like, it's just a chicken sandwich. It's not— I think it's more than that. I think it really— I think they put cocaine or something in there.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Um, all right, so 16-year-old, uh, do you buy the cars or do they buy their own cars?

Uh, good question. So As a parent, we want to talk parenting styles. I'm not a buy car kind of guy. I grew up driving a 1983 Dodge van with 200,000 miles on it. When I wanted my first car after I graduated high school, I went and financed a $7,000 Ford Ranger truck myself and took on a $200 car payment. So my oldest wanted a car, her mom went and financed it for her, and My oldest has made the payment on her car since she was 17 years old. So, um, you could drive a family car. Maybe we could talk about something else, but if you want your own car, you're gonna have to pay for it.

Got it. How are you guys, uh, handling custody?

Great question. Um, so I do the first, third, and fifth weekend is what I did because that was kind of very standard in the divorce decree. So not at And as you're thinking in your head, not every month has a fifth weekend. So those months that have a fifth weekend, I kind of get an extra weekend. Um, I should have done one week on, one week off is what I should have done. I didn't, uh, think about it enough. And we handled our divorce ourselves. We actually— we got along pretty well, so we handled it ourselves, no attorneys. And that was kind of the standard custody arrangement, at least here in Texas. It's first, third, and fifth, and then I get every Thursday night. So I can get them on Thursday night, and then the weekends I have them, I can have them Thursday through the weekend.

Okay, and you guys both still live near each other? We do.

Right when we got divorced, we didn't. I lived a little bit further away, just it kind of, kind of worked out where I was living for just a short period of time. So, but now I live about 15 minutes from him, so. Close enough, but it's not easy, you know, being a single dad. You know, when I have them, if I have them all, I need to take them all to school. You know, I have one in preschool, one in elementary school, one in middle school, one in high school, all different drop-off times, 15 minutes away. I live in a 2-bedroom apartment right now, and it's not the easiest thing getting ready in the morning, getting going. So I am close enough to their schools, close enough to their mom to where That does help a little bit, but it's a lot of work, man.

Yeah, sounds like it. Um, so you said Thursday through Sunday?

Yep.

Okay. Um, do you like— I guess I don't know how the relationship is now. Do you guys get to, uh, like, can you stop by or say, hey, I want to take the kids out for dinner on a Tuesday? Or, um, like, I'll go to the birthday parties and stuff together? Like, how, you know, how'd Christmas go this year and New Year's?

And Yeah, great question. I'll be transparent with you. Uh, when we got divorced, right when we got divorced, there was more of that. It's gotten worse. Um, I'm totally okay with that. I think that's how it should be for the sake of the kids. Has nothing to do with me, nothing to do with my feelings, whatever. But, um, we're kind of okay from the standpoint of I can go pick them up from time to time, um, take them out to get ice cream. I try to do Uh, father-daughter dates, one-on-one, all the time. I try to do those as much as possible.

Um, there's been no like contention about that, like, hey, you only have weekends, stay away?

Uh, it's getting worse. It's getting worse, unfortunately. It's getting worse, unfortunately.

So, uh, so you've been able to, but it's, it's slowly getting some negative responses?

Yeah. Um, yeah, you know, communication is important. Schedules are important, but for the sake of the kids and flexibility and them knowing that, hey, this is going on, that's going on, I try to be incredibly flexible. You know, there would be times where she'd be like, hey, I work from home, I'm self-employed, I've got a really good job and I do all right for myself, I'm doing better for myself. And she'd be like, hey, could you go pick up the baby from preschool because I'm out and about? No problem. I will, I will do anything at the drop of a hat for my kids.

I would think, I would think hopefully, you know, I— we never get in that situation, that's the goal. Uh, but I would think, yeah, I'd be in that same boat of I'd almost want to become my ex-wife's babysitter, like go-to, like, you know, any, any time you need to do an errand or something that involves me with my kids, like, heck yeah, I'll take that. I don't care if I have to watch the kids while you're on a date, like, I would I wouldn't want to, you know, there's already so much time being missed just because, you know, that Monday through Thursday is, uh, well, the, the biggest thing and any piece of advice I could give is just put the kids first.

But man, it's tough. It's really tough. It's not tough for me, but I have a friend who's actually a divorce lawyer. Uh, she's a girl and she's a pretty successful divorce lawyer. And dude, the stuff she tells me, what people do, what adults do is mind-blowing how selfish they are, how irresponsible they are. Put the kids first. From when you're divorced, put the kids first.

Yeah, a lot of people use the kids as pawns.

Oh, it's disgusting.

And they feed, they feed bad information to the kids to try and turn them against the other parent. Or, you know, there's usually, um, and this happens even in good scenarios, there's kind of this, um competition on who can provide better for the kid, who can buy the cooler gift, who can, you know, say yes more often to the concerts, um, you know.

And the parents, the parents think— I've seen that too— and the parents think that, okay, this is great for the kid, but let's be honest, the parents are doing that selfishly. And then what ends up happening? They're ruining their child. They're spoiling, they're spoiling them. They're creating a competition between mom and dad, which which the kid either consciously or subconsciously gets put in between, which is so unfair to the child. So those things, they make me sick. I'll be honest with you, you know, I wanted the marriage to work. I absolutely did. But it just sickens me for the kids. Like, it's just, it's so wrong. And if you want to talk about what's wrong with this world, it's just bad parenting, you know? Like, people want to blame iPhones, people want to blame video games. They want to blame bad schools. They want to blame politics. It all starts at home. It all starts at home. Bad parenting is exactly what's wrong with this world. And if you want to go a little bit further and deeper than that, if you want to go a little bit religious, you know, I think the devil's number one goal is to break down the family. The second he breaks down the family, things become much more difficult to raise good kids. What happens when kids go bad? They turn into bad adults. They do bad things, and it starts a very, very vicious cycle. So I, you know, I work day in and day out to do the best job I can with my kids. Um, I want to have a great relationship with my ex-wife. I hope that it does turn around and get better. Um, and I'll be honest with you, you know, I, I want to get remarried again someday. I'm not afraid of that by any means whatsoever. And, you know, of course I want to find someone I love that I'm connected with, that that's what I want. And the silver lining on that is to have someone that I can show my daughters a loving marriage and have another, you know, great parent example for them to have.

Yeah, yeah. Are you afraid to be a dad that says no?

No, not at all.

And did that, um, did it change at all once now that you guys are living in separate households?

Did you make you a little bit more nervous to say no? Slightly. My girls know, but their mom's good. Their mom's a really good mom. She is a good mom. But my girls know that dad is not a pushover. Dad loves them to death. They know that. They know that I got a set of boundaries. I got a set of values. I got a belief. I have a strong, strong belief in a lot of things. I hope that they respect that. I hope that they understand that. They may not fully know until they're older, as we all know, right? But yeah, my worst thing that I do when they come and stay at my house is diet. Like, I have good fun food for them here and too much ice cream, and we go out to eat too much. Yeah, you know, like, I just, I want to have just little things for them here that just, you know, they can enjoy. But no, I'm saying no and stuff like that is, uh, is not a problem at all. But It's all with love. It's all with caring. It's always what's best for them. It's not— it's not—

and you sound like— you sound like someone who's pretty communicative and can say, there's— this is why I'm saying no. This is why I think this is the best decision, versus, you know, the sitcom dads that just say no and walk away and there's no explanation and the kid takes it the wrong way.

I probably used to be worse at that, honestly. I'll be honest with you, you know, I probably used to be like, do it because I said so, you know. Um, what did I ask you when you and I were first messing? Like, why do you do this? I want to know that. I also want my girls to know why. I got some really— I think I was listening to a podcast recently, it was a motorcycle podcast with this guy who was a trainer. He trained some really good motocross racers, and he said it perfectly. He doesn't tell his athletes what to do. He explains the benefit of doing something and why they should do it, and then lets them make the decision.

Yeah, so I like that.

Yeah.

So, um, with the custody, are you going to try and offer to take a lot of the kids more often once that new baby is close to being born and being born? Because, I mean, from a complete family, you know, I enjoy that, like when grandparents come in town, like, because those first few weeks are just tough, uh, with a newborn. So is that something you're going to try and, I guess, work out where maybe you can have the kids for a long time while they adjust to life with the new baby.

Yeah, I'd be open to that. Yeah, I totally would. I mean, I'll take my kids as much as I can have them, so that's not a problem at all. The hard thing is I'm in a 2-bedroom apartment right now, uh, so one of the bedrooms is basically like a camper room. I got 2 sets of bunk beds in there, uh, but my lease is up here and I'm looking at a new place to actually move even a little bit closer to them and get into a bigger space, so Okay, I mean, they're all girls, they'll be fine bunking together. Yeah, they are fine, but the hardest thing that I struggle with, like, my girls are active, especially my younger ones. They're on bikes, they're outside playing, they love having friends. And, you know, I'm in an apartment complex, it's a decent enough place, but, um, I want them to be able to be outside and do things. I have some really cool, like, kind of like forest and creek areas out off the back, which is cool, but um, it's just not a neighborhood, you know. It's not sidewalks and driveways and kids house after house after house. The neighborhood that they're in is phenomenal. It's a newer neighborhood, and I bought that house 4 and a half years ago, and it was a brand new build, and all the houses around it were built at the same time. So all these families were moving in at the same time, and we all just got to know each other right away. We had, you know, neighborhood block parties and Christmas parties and tons of kids.

So they're still, they're still living in the house that you guys grew up in as a family, essentially?

Yeah, we were there for about 4 and a half years. So, uh, they've been there, they've been there about 4 and a half years. Not, not super long. We're from California. We moved to Texas from California 5 and a half years ago.

Okay, I think everybody is.

Don't California My Texas is a very popular bumper sticker.

We were just in Austin, uh, about a week now. I guess it was a few weeks ago. It was after we were in your neck of the woods, uh, and that— first of all, Austin's a really cool town. It's really, I guess, hipster and trendy, um, but I like really good food, and in hipster and trendy towns, it is awesome to eat. So like every restaurant we walked into was fantastic, but Um, like everyone is moving to Austin from California. Like Tesla's building a huge factory. I think Intel is moving out there. Google's got a big presence there. Um, yeah, it's, uh, it was very interesting because it doesn't feel like Texas when you're in it.

Yeah, it's, uh, it's a capital city. You know, capital cities are cooler, funkier, whether it's Madison, Wisconsin, or, um, you know, they're not typically the biggest city in that state, but they're kind of the cooler, funkier. And it's a college town too. So when you get the Capitol, you get the college, it's got a lot of that going on. And it, it's more of a, you know, a liberal city too, so you get some of that kind of culture, I guess you, you could say, you know. So it's got a little bit more that funky vibe to it, but it's cool. Austin's, Austin's beautiful, the big river running down the middle of it.

Yep, that Riverwalk was pretty cool. We were, we were camping right off of it, um, uh, hey, but yeah, we, I was driving that big old truck I have through that town, and it's all, you know, it's all little Teslas and Jaguars and little BMWs everywhere. Like, the lanes— my dually is like driving on the paint lanes on both sides.

Traffic is bad there too.

I tried to stay away from it, but yeah, it was pretty rough. Um, and then there's a barbecue place down there called Franklin's, and Franklin's was world-class. I mean, like, the best brisket. And I've had brisket all over the country now. You know, I've done Kansas City, I've done Mississippi and Georgia and Florida. Uh, world-class barbecue at Franklin's. So if you're ever down there—

I haven't been to Franklin's, but my previous job I traveled all over the Midwest, so St. Louis, Kansas City, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana. Uh, and I, I think Texas barbecue overall is the best barbecue in my opinion.

Yeah, we just had some today that Guy Fieri visited on his Diners, Drive-Ins and whatever it's called.

Yeah.

Um, and so their barbecue is solid. It was nowhere near as good as Franklin's, uh, but their sides were fantastic. So we're like, Franklin's sides suck, but they're amazing.

Nice, nice, nice.

And like, you know, Kansas City had really good meat. It's just, I don't know, there's something about Franklin Doughnuts. Oh, perfect.

I'll check it out. Absolutely perfect. Yeah.

Um, I got distracted there.

Start talking about food, right?

I always get distracted with food stuff. What are we talking about before that?

Uh, Austin, cities.

I should have ate before this. You moved from California to Texas, you were telling me.

Oh, we're talking about the house I lived in and my girl staying there. Yeah, so they stayed in the house. Uh, we should have sold the house.

Um, I was about to say, because I want to know how you guys are doing this financially, um, because usually, yeah, usually everyone's downsizing and everyone's like broke because you split everything in half and now have to do twice as much. Um, but yeah, I guess if she's staying in the house, that's, that's a good thing. I genuinely think that's a good thing.

But for the kids, 100% for the kids, that's why I did it.

A little bit of stability in that situation.

It was, absolutely. And I would love for them to stay in the house But, um, it doesn't look like that's going to happen. You know, we have an agreement in place. Um, so yeah, it was tough. It was a lot of back and forth. Um, sell it— I kind of left it up to her. Um, and because, you know, my kids—

but the house is in both of your names.

Uh, the loan's in my name. So that's a fun point of, uh, but the title's in both your names. Yeah, the deed, the deed. Yeah, so it's a tough one. I'm not saying a lot on it, uh, financially it's tough. I'm living in a 2-bedroom apartment, so, um, they're in a, you know, 5-bedroom, 4-bath house, which you need for 5 kids, uh, so, uh, but it looks like the house is going to be sold in the pretty near future. So, um, I think a couple things, you know, it's been over a year, uh, she's engaged to someone already, and it's— I think it's— I think she realizes it's just time. Our kids are doing well though, you know. I think that's something that we can talk about is the kids. Um, you know, her and I didn't fight a lot, uh, definitely never in front of the kids. We had our moments of heated conversations, you could say, and I'm sure they heard them from time to time, but really tried hard not to fight in front of the kids. We were separated for a while. I stayed in the house most of the time. I stayed in the guest bedroom. Um, so during your separation— during a separation, yep, yep. So, uh, we were definitely separated from a marriage standpoint and those types of things. But, um, she never worked, so she was a stay-at-home mom. Well, she worked— I mean, raising 5 kids is more than a full-time job. So I fully supported her in that, absolutely 100%. So I stayed in the house, excuse me, and then as the divorce was coming, trying to figure that out with what to do with the house, but with the kids, you know, it was kind of a slow process and her and I were pretty darn civil through most of it. So it wasn't just one day like cut and dry, bam, see you later, sell the house. Moving, contention. I think it wasn't like that. So I think that's pretty good for the kids. So I think the kids are pretty stable. Again, I hate it for the kids. I don't ever want to say they'll be okay. Kids are resilient. I hate those lines. Kids don't deserve this. Kids did not choose this situation. They should never have to go through this. But with that said, I think for the most part it is pretty as good as it can be. For the most part, and pretty healthy. So back to the house situation, I think it's been pretty stable, pretty good. Divorce has been a year, separation was a bit before that.

Uh, the kid—

the kids will be fine. I think their mom is going to stay in the same area, um, which I hope so because they got some good roots there.

Um, so is Mom working then? Okay, so Dad's supporting I guess she's engaged. Okay, so he's, he's pitching in?

He moved in.

Okay, so you guys just have like an agreement, I guess, of like you pay the mortgage, or this is the alimony, this is child support?

The child support pays the mortgage.

Okay, so gotta go. Yeah, um. What do you do for, uh, work? You said you work for yourself.

I do. So I'm an independent contractor doing national sales. Actually, this is my employer right here, Filterbuy. So we are an American-made air filter for HVAC systems, uh, Talladega, Alabama, family-owned, third-generation brand. Um, and what does every, uh, business, school, hospital need? With everything going on right now, clean air. So the filters business is through the roof, through the roof. So it's always a good thing. Exactly. I'm actually new to the company. Uh, my brother had been with them for a little bit before that. He knows the owner of the company, the third generation guy that's been running it now. Um, it's, it's really cool. So, uh, I do B2B sales, so any wholesale business basically is what I do, which is a new division for our company. Um, so I sell to a lot of school districts, um, some bigger school districts around the company— around the country, sorry. They got a lot of schools, a lot of buildings, a lot of classrooms, which equals a lot of filters.

So yeah, that's a good thing.

Yeah, yeah. Before that, I, I had worked in the motorcycle business for pretty much all of my adult life. Uh, super fortunate to work in the motorcycle business. I love motorcycles, but it was just time to, to make a change.

For a dealer or manufacturer?

Um, so I've worked for almost all of them as far as different levels of the industry. Never worked for an actual motorcycle manufacturer. So I got my start working for an aftermarket parts and accessory company. So we manufactured a lot of our own performance products for motorcycles. We were also a distributor, so we sold to the dealer network. Uh, we made stuff for Harley-Davidson, for Hondas, Yamahas, Kawasakis, Suzukis. That's where I got my start. I moved from there to a suspension modification company. So motocross suspension, dirt bike suspension. So you wanna go, you know, fast on a motocross track or out through the woods doing an enduro ride out through the trees or whatever, we would customize your suspension for you so it would work better. I moved from there and worked for a small group of companies that manufactured apparel and helmets, also did some parts for motorcycles. I was a director of sales and marketing there. And then I left that for a little bit. I went to online retail. So I was a director of marketing for two large online retailers. One focused on the Harley-Davidson American V-twin side. The other one focused on the Japanese sport bike, dirt bike side. Just go online, you wanna buy a helmet, you wanna buy a tire, you wanna buy a jacket, riding gear, whatever it is, we did that. So we had two large ones. That's actually how I ended up in Texas. They relocated both of those two retailers here to Texas. That's how I ended up here in Texas. Uh, I left there a little bit after that, then I actually worked for motorcycle lawyers, believe it or not. So heaven forbid someone gets in an accident on a motorcycle, which happens a bit too much, a car hits you, and you're in Florida.

Yeah, yeah, we see that every day.

Oh, everywhere. That's everywhere. It's horrible. It's, it's dangerous. I'm mainly an off-road motorcycle guy. I like to ride the desert, go ride a motocross track, or go ride up in the mountains where there's not a bunch of 5,000-pound cars and cement roads that'll kill me. But unfortunately, guys get in motorcycle crashes, and more often than not, it's not their fault. It's the car doesn't see them and hits them, but the insurance companies try to jerk them around. So we were motorcycle accident injury lawyers. Uh, you get in, get in an accident, you call us, we make sure the other person's insurance company pays you what they should.

So, man, I feel like that's rare because usually, you know, motorcycle accident, you usually not walking away from that. I mean, there's—

yeah, the death rate's not as bad as you think, but it's bad. It's dangerous. It's horrible. You're 100% right. It's horrible. It's, it's tough.

But yeah, so we have Bike Week and Oktoberfest every year because I'm on the East Coast. So we're from St. Augustine, which is just above Daytona.

Yeah.

Um, so Daytona Bike Week and Oktoberfest, and I mean, every year there's multiple deaths there. I mean, just—

I saw one. I went to Bike Week every year from '01 to '06., and then went a couple other times after that. I saw a guy's head splatter— splattered on the pavement on, uh, what's the International Speedway? Because right, Daytona?

Uh, yeah, I used to work security down there in those years when I was in high school. Yeah, a couple times.

Yeah, it's a good time though. It's a good time.

Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, I've also noticed it's Florida, uh Florida, it seems to be other drivers, a lot of old people in Florida, where they pull out in front of you. Because I used to ride down there too, and I got tired of people pulling out in front of me.

And then do you know what they all say? They all say, I didn't see him coming, he must have been speeding. Yeah, so then they try to pin it on the rider.

I know, I just saw an advertisement. It was, uh, they've, they figured out, I guess, how to do the train horns on motorcycles.

Wow.

And man, if I still had a bike, I'd buy it, because I remember I would honk that you know, beep, that little crappy horn, because you'd be right next to somebody, you know, not even in their blind spot, and they change lanes into you. It was the most frustrating thing. Uh, yeah, constantly pulling in front of us. Um, in California, the one time I've been out there, the motorcycles— I put the blame on them. The amount of motorcycles I saw, they just like go wherever they want, weaving in and out in between lanes.

And yeah, yeah, um, I bet, yeah, that's—

that one's probably the motorcyclist's fault. They just, they do whatever they want without regard for the rules.

There are some idiots out there.

There are. Yeah. I mean, they have that in Florida too. But yeah, if we're calling generic differences, let's see, Five Daughters. So how have you handled dating with daughters?

Good question. Good question.

Yeah. Do you take them out on their first date? Um, you know, I guess how much conversation is, you know, boys are disgusting, oily, stupid little turds.

Um, how do I talk to my girls about dating?

Yeah, and how do you approach it? I mean, because you've already have some that have gone through, you know, those, those teenage, later teenage years and obviously gone into college, and you have some that still have to come into it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, my big thing always had been When you're a teenager, you know, don't start dating too early. You're young. Enjoy life. Have lots of boys that are truly your friends. Spend time in groups of people. Get to know people. Get to know what you like. That's really what it's all about. Even as a teenager, like, okay, if you want to go on a date, go on a, go on a couple's date or go on a group date. Go do fun stuff like that. Really get to know each other. I really try to just, I try to just teach them values. You know, back to the thing of explaining, here, here's some good points, and hope that they figure it out themselves, you know. I'll go all the way into the deepest stuff of teenage pregnancy, you know. Like, if things get too far, you get too serious in a relationship, here's what can happen. I really just try to give them examples, talk to them about that. But, you know, I got girls and— but they have good heads on their shoulders. They both— I mean, my older two are the ones that have dated, and multiple times they've broken off with boys who've gotten too serious or too clingy or too weird and stuff like that. So, you know, I feel that they, they do have pretty good heads on their shoulders. Um, you know, back to the single dad divorce life, It's harder now because their mom and I have slightly different views on certain things and we're not in the same household. And so there is some of that, but I just try to talk to them. The biggest thing is just talking and communicating about them. Never, I never ever want them to feel like they can't talk to me about anything. So I'll ask them about stuff. How's it going with this? What's going on with that? What are you guys doing? What are you doing? Meet their, meet their boyfriends. You know, I try to be nice enough where they're somewhat comfortable with me, but I am a big believer that the boys, especially as teenage boys, should never feel that I'm their friend or that I trust them. Not that I'm like the country song where I'm gonna sit there cleaning my gun when they come in. But, you know, definitely try to create some boundaries. I just, you know, overall I just try to talk to my kids and talk about values, talk about what's important, things to look for, get to know them. I have big real talks with my girls. It's good.

The why, you know, we were talking about that earlier. The why is so important.

Absolutely.

You know, these are our values. This is why we don't want these. They don't align with our values and our integrity.

And, you know, your kids are who they're gonna be by a pretty young age. I will never forget when my oldest was turning 9 or 10, I was sitting there on the couch actually with my ex-wife, and we were reading something that said either she was 9, she was turning 10, or she was turning 9. And it basically said something that like 9 years old is the last year of true childhood innocence and the true like age where a parent can have like deep, deep-rooted value effect, right? Now, it doesn't mean you stop parenting. It doesn't mean you stop having conversations. It doesn't mean you just throw your hands up, but that is like the age where we kind of are who we are, like our DNA, you know, big life experiences, of course, can alter stuff and change stuff. But I just— not that I talk about dating from a young age, but I just really try to instill those strong values. Respect yourself, respect your body. You know, I'm a pretty religious guy. Have belief in those things. Understand what you're here for, understand why we're doing what we're doing. And, you know, if you have those conversations and you can help them with that from a young age, it makes those conversations about dating when they are, you know, a teenager, um, make a lot more sense to them than just out of nowhere, why is Dad telling me that? Sure.

Yeah, the— like, some sort of foundation has been established from a young age.

Absolutely.

Yeah, uh, I don't know about the whole 9-year-old thing though. I'd have to be convinced of that. That's, that's still young. I kind of get the innocence because that's the— you're starting to get into conversations that involve, you know, hormones and puberty and, you know, the leave behind some of the magical world of your younger years.

Um, well, here's an example for you. So I have a 10-year-old. This year at Christmas First year, did not want any toys. So the innocence thing, you're kind of right. Like, it really— and every kid's different. I'm not a, I'm not a blanket, you know, label kind of guy by any means. But, you know, as far as like who people are, like, I can identify it, and I have with my kids, like, who they are, how they're going to be. Of course there's variations, of course things are going to change, but, you know, my 14-year-old The way she is, I saw that at 3, 4, 5 years old. Like, I could identify that. I mean, that's their personality, which also goes to how they handle things when they get in situations as they get older.

Yeah, so I mean, you're gonna have some easier flustered or think things through more about their approach. Yeah, I get that.

Take, take input more, less. Handle boys this way, that way, handle school this way, that way, etc. Yeah, etc. So, you know, back to the dating thing, um, you know, I, I'm happy that my girls are dating. Um, I would wish that especially, you know, my 16-year-old, that she wouldn't get as serious with boys as she does. She's gotten more serious with boys than her older sister did. Um, and again, you know, raised in the same house, hopefully same conversations, just different people, right? You know, they're different people in just the way they go about it. So I just, you know, try to build those values, have those conversations with them, and then even as they get older, you know, and they're growing up, I actually just saw my 16-year-old. We talked about, she works at Whataburger. I went and had a burger there, actually had salad there tonight for dinner, and she's got a boy, and they're pretty, serious, and I happen to see your phone. I don't know how I saw her phone, and his name on the phone was My Love. And I was like, all right, here's a conversation, here's, uh, here's an opportunity, right? You know, um, I don't go like, what the heck? I just go, you know, just be careful, just take your time. And she's like, well, you know, you know, you know that we've liked each other for like 6 months, and Uh, that's right, right? It is.

I mean, at that age, that is forever.

Yeah, yeah. And he's actually a family friend boy that doesn't live in town, uh, lives out of town. His, his mom and my ex were really good friends. Yeah, but she just spent a week with them, uh, in between Christmas and New Year's. So, okay, I would not do that. Divorced dad life. Divorced dad life. His mom is my ex's best friend. Okay, so then it's like, okay, sure, have him go. And I'm like, what the heck?

Actually, without mom?

No, his parents are there and his siblings. She just went to stay at their house.

But without your ex-wife?

Without either of us.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't have done that either.

Now, his mom, I know her really well. She's an amazing, amazing lady. Uh, her and I had some conversations. Um, pray to God that, uh, eyes were kept.

Yeah, right.

I saw a post, I saw a post on Facebook and, uh, about them hanging out, and the mom posted some pictures, and I even commented on it. I was like, hey, thanks for having her, I appreciate it, but I think I might need to chaperone next time so that I can, uh, sit in between them frequently. Yeah, she's like, they were joined at the hip, and I was like always in front of your eyes, right? She's like, yes.

Yeah, there's— there were some when I was a teenager. Um, so I got married really young too, we were teenagers. Um, and, uh, she had a dance teacher we always hung out with. Like, they were always doing like— I don't know, she just like lived at this dance teacher's house. And, um, uh, they're still good. I mean, she's still a good friend of ours today, uh, but she had like so many rules. Like, you were never allowed to share blankets. So boys and girls were never allowed to share blankets.

What happened underneath the blanket? What happens underneath?

I know what you're thinking. No sharing blankets. Um, you know, if they would— they would go on like tours, like dancing tours and stuff, and they're always boys and girls, and, um, they would always tape the boys' doors. So like you would put tape on the outside because then they're— and all the boys have to go in one room. That way they, you know, uh And so that way, you know, if they came out, if the door was opened, you would know. There was no way to— there's no way to reapply the tape.

Yeah.

Um, I'm trying to think where are some other things she did. You know, she was always encouraging, like, don't have boyfriend and girlfriends, don't get attached. You're teenagers, you don't— you know, if you want to get attached when you graduate high school, fine, you know.

Exactly, exactly.

But go on more dates, even if you love that boy a ton. Do him a favor by dating someone. Go on dates, not like being boyfriend-girlfriend, but go on dates with more people. That way you have the exposure so you don't have regrets, you know, in your early 20s if you guys do get married. Um, so that way you can say, you know, I, I went on dates with 15 different boys and I really did like this one. Not just, well, there was only one option, now I'm 23 and I wish I had dated some more people.

Exactly, exactly.

She always has some good, good nuggets of wisdom. Yeah, but I remember the blankets one. There's never ever, or being left in a room like alone together. You know, anything like that. She was always very forward about, you know, I know what teenagers are thinking about, even when you tell me you're not thinking about, I know what you're thinking about.

So I didn't, I didn't graduate college, but I went to some community college and I was in a political science class, my favorite class I took. And this really cool teacher, this guy gets up, you know, we're all like 19, 20 years old and He gets up there first day and says, hey, I know that teenage boys think about sex every 15 seconds, so when I'm sitting up here talking to you and you're not paying attention, I know what you're thinking about. I was like, yeah, you're probably right, dude.

Yep, not far off from the truth.

So this was my first Christmas divorced, first Christmas as a single dad. Um, you asked me a little bit about holidays and timing and stuff, but, um, I actually moved back into my old house for the holidays last year.

Um, that's nice.

Two reasons. First reason was I needed to be a father to be there during that time. Uh, there's, there's more stuff there, but I won't go into it. Uh, secondly was to be there for the holidays. And make sure that my kids had a great holiday knowing what was coming and everything. So anyway, so I was there. I've been with my kids every single holiday. This year for Christmas, we did Thanksgiving together. Me and my girls went to my fam, my dad's house in Arizona, did a nice Thanksgiving together out there. It was really cool. Got back from there and I was like, all right, cool, time to get ready for Christmas. Let's start decorating. And I was like, holy crap, I don't really know what to do. Um, not that I didn't help out, but, you know, I was kind of the manual labor, right? Like, get the boxes down, set up the tree, hang the lights, you know.

Tell me what to do. This is at the ex-wife's house?

Yeah. So this is how I had always been. So now we're coming into first single dad Christmas and getting ready for it, getting stuff setting— set up, getting decorations done, and I felt lost. I totally felt lost. I was like, wow, I don't really know what to do. And I always liked taking my girls Christmas shopping and just going out and doing Christmas stuff. But I didn't have my girls all the time. I couldn't just do that. It was really tough. It was really, really tough. Those, those couple of weeks after Thanksgiving. So this year, because it was our first one, It actually was my Christmas for the divorce decree. Um, I felt it would be best for the kids though to wake up Christmas morning in their house, uh, which is the house they live in with their mom. So what we did this year was I had them for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, so up until Christmas Eve, had them for almost 3 days, took them back to their mom's house on Christmas Eve. They did that night Christmas Day at their mom's house. So we did a Christmas at my house for them, woke up in the morning, opened presents, had like a Christmas morning at my house, and then they, uh, they went to their mom's on Christmas Eve night and did Christmas morning there. So yeah, so the one thing that I was going to say is just, you know, as a single dad, is just planning. It's planning your— when you have time with your kids, you know, I, you know, before would just have my kids and go Christmas shopping or go look at Christmas lights or set up stuff around the house for Christmas or whatever, because I had them all the time. I was with them all the time.

Yeah.

So now between Thanksgiving and Christmas, I had very limited time windows to do that, and I didn't realize that. I didn't even think about it until it slapped me in the face, and I was like, holy crap, like, I— this sucks. And now what am I gonna do about it? So I made the best of it. I actually brought one of my daughters, came over whatever, a few weeks before Christmas, and she loves decorating for Christmas, and really cool. I actually went out one morning to go do some stuff and came back and she had everything set up. So that was really cool. But, you know, back to, you know, a little thing to talk about, a little piece of advice or whatever, it's just planning and timing and knowing, okay, this is what I got, I got to make the most of it, you know.

I mean, you're at best case scenario, your time's cut in half. So I mean, yeah, you don't want to be lazy and you watching TV in one room and they're in another room watching TV. That'd just be really poor use of time.

Yeah, and it's not even half for me. I mean, I would like it to be half. I'd like to do the one week on, one week off. I'd like to get to that point. But yeah, you're right. You're totally right. It's go, go, go. But one of the things that I do with my kids when they do come to my— because we live pretty close— is, you know, I try to make it as normal as possible. So yes, we are going, we are doing things because I like to do that, you know, and let's go have some fun, or, you know, let's go to the pool, whatever it might be, go on bike rides, go do a theme park, or whatever it is. But I also try to make it normal, you know. So like, if they have a friend who wants to have them come over to their friend's house, even on a weekend that's my weekend, I'm like, yeah, they do that. I'll take you over there, I'll drive you, I'll pick you up. Um, you know, my daughters— some of my daughters work and have jobs. Some babies say, yeah, go do that, you know. Like, I don't want them to regret coming to my house because it just blows up their normal life. I want it to be as normal-ish as possible. And honestly, one of the things that I get the most enjoyment out of is just like running my girls around, just drive them from here to there, and it kind of gets me a little bit involved in their life, I guess you could say. And I probably enjoy it a little bit. Yeah, and they kind of need me, and I— they kind of need me, and I like to be needed.

So I was reading a book about, um, it's from a woman's perspective, but she was saying that about her dad. She's like, she's— I think they would literally just drive around. I think the dad just liked to drive, and she would go with them, and they would have these long— but there was never a destination. They would like just drive like random places. I think they were in a rural setting, so like all the farms and everything, or Um, she never knew where they were going or anything like that, but like, it's one of the things she remembered most was we would just talk and talk and talk. And, you know, when she was being honest about it, it was her talking and him just sitting there listening.

And, you know, I love it. I love, I, I love road trips. I love just going on drives and checking stuff out. It's so cool that you even pointed that out because, yeah, that's probably a big, big part of it because you get that whether one-on-one time or, you know, me and my girls, we, we all drove to Arizona for Thanksgiving. 16 hours there in one day, 16 hours back. All 5? All 5. We took 2 cars. I have a truck and then my oldest took her car. So we kind of moved the kids around between cars. I actually want to get a van. I want to get a Sprinter van soon so that we can all road trip in a van together. But whether it's a road trip or just a drive to go see the sunset or go out to a good barbecue spot or whatever, like, I love just going on drives and just talking, you know, like I actually, I like listening more than I like talking, and you're totally right, driving is the perfect way to do that.

As a girl dad, you know—

I love that term. Favorite term on earth is girl dad. I have no tattoos and I'll probably never get one, but if I ever did, that may be what I would get.

I've heard listening is big, like actually listening. It's just, I don't know, for some reason that's just what girls want.

They—

I guess that's what wives want too, but, um, like, it really comes down to like listening, and that means so much to them at a level that dudes just don't understand. But it's—

put your phone down, right? Put your phone away, sit there, listen, listen intently and really remember it. Um, I think everyone wants that probably, but, um, my 10-year-old daughter—

the fathers and sons aren't like that though. Like, we can just go fishing and say very few words, and like, and we feel incredibly bonded. Even though, like, you're just like, our presence is enough. Um, and girls, yeah, there's, you know, the talking is more important.

It's funny, it's funny you say that.

I've read that in multiple, multiple books, uh, about from the father-daughter perspective of, uh, that listening is a key thing. From a daughter's point of view.

For sure. Yeah, that's really good. I agree with that. The presence thing is really interesting that you pointed that out. Since being divorced, maybe the thing I enjoy the most in life is just being in the presence of my kids, um, having them at my place and them just having fun. I try to have fun with them, but they could just be doing whatever, you know. My little one She just loves playing with stuff. She's so fun. And my 10-year-old does too. Or we just go on bike rides. Like, you know, we don't have to be going to Six Flags or going to Disneyland or whatever. We don't have to be building, you know, the biggest Lego house on earth or whatever. Like, I can just be in their presence. Happy as a cucumber.

Yeah, no, I get that. I'm that way. I'm that way with some of my, like, adult friends. I got one friend, he's a cop. We'll do ride-alongs every once in a while. You know, from like 9 PM to like 3 o'clock in the morning, and I will barely say anything. That would be like the best night of my life, for sure. We'll catch some perps, maybe get to find a stolen car or something. We'll say like 12 words the entire night and just have a blast. Oh, that's fun. Um, divorce-wise, so the oldest— how are the oldest taking it? Are they— are, are the age differences, are they Is it harder on the 5-year-old versus the 10-year-old versus 16-year-old?

Great question, great question. Um, so again, it was a slow process, you know. I was still in the house. I'm sure they were starting to see some separation, you know, not as much connection. Um, I think that helped. I mean, of course, please, no one ever get divorced. I'm not advising that. But, but it wasn't a sudden abrupt Yeah, there was no clean cut like that. Um, so it was like that for a while, so I think that helped. There was a point where we did have a pretty big blowup over some things, and that's when I moved out, uh, the first time I actually moved out of the house at that time. So we— so a few months back before that, I'd been sleeping in the guest room, but all my stuff was still in the master bedroom closet. Um, not my choice, but my ex's choice. All my stuff got moved into the guest room. And so I think that kind of showed the girls, okay, there's something going on here. Um, a few months later, we had something, and I moved out of the house. Uh, and that's when we sat them down and said, hey guys, Mom and Dad aren't doing good. Again, it's about communication, you know. Uh, Mom and Dad aren't doing good. Here's what's going on. Dad's gonna move out for a little bit. My oldest was at work at the time. My youngest would have been 3. I was 19 and she would have been 3 and a half. So a bit young to really process it. My now 16-year-old would have been 14 and a half at the time, I think. She's a very quiet, she's a thinker. She doesn't say a lot. She kind of just sat there quietly. My now 14-year-old would have been 12, I think, at the time. You could tell she was a little bit bothered. She wears her emotions on her sleeve more than any of my kids. So, you know where she— she knows where she stands. My now 10-year-old would have been, I think, 8 at the time. She said the thing that broke my heart the most was, "You're not gonna move far away, are you?" Yeah. That just, that, you know, I, okay, I love that she said that because she wants me around. It broke my heart that she had to even think that. So there was that. And then, you know, I came back into the house a few months after that, and then the divorce got finalized. And then when I moved out again, you know, right after the holidays and right before the divorce got finalized a year ago, another thing that broke my heart— I've been traveling a lot for my old job, and the motorcycle lawyer company, and I handled the central part of the country. So I was always out in the markets and doing things, and I was actually traveling a lot to kind of give me and my ex some space to try and like— initially it was to try and like help things, like, hey, let's give each other some space so hopefully we'll miss each other and want to come back. But in the end, no. And so I was just traveling a lot, and my oldest, you know, I was talking to her and I was like, hey, how do you feel? I'm gonna be moving out. She's like, well, 'You're gone so much anyways, it's not going to be that much different.' That just broke my heart. That just sucks so bad. And I even told her, you know, she's old enough, you know, she was like, I think almost 17 at the time. And I told her, I was like, 'Hey, just so you know, like, I was traveling a lot so that your mom and I could try and work on things, so that we could try and, you know, give each other space and work on it.' So I could talk with her about that. So, so since then, um, you know, I think most of the girls are okay with it. My now 14-year-old, the one that wears her emotions on her sleeves, she's voiced some concerns to me about some certain things here and there. She's probably the only one that would voice those concerns because that's kind of her personality is to say something. The older—

She's also talking to sisters, and so she can kind of give you an insight to maybe what they're thinking as well.

She might be, yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. So the other, the younger two, I'm concerned about all of them, but the youngest are the ones I'm concerned about the most. My 10-year-old, she struggles to come to my house, doesn't want to. I think it's twofold. I'm in a 2-bedroom apartment, which is not that big and that fun. It's her house. And then secondly, all of her friends and all of her fun stuff are at her mom's house, you know? She's a very active kid. She's always out and about. When she comes to my house, she always ends up in the trees and down in the creek. Now, her 5-year-old sister is the one that always gets wet, but the 10-year-old's always with her. And I think the 10-year-old is kind of encouraging some stuff. So that's been tough. We actually had a moment a few weeks ago on a Friday night where she was really, really sad and wanted to go home. And I was trying to talk to her and trying to, you know, but I don't want her to, I don't want to force her to stay here. I don't want her to feel like, you know, like, yes, it was my time with her, but this is still fresh and new for her, and she's a kid and she's going through all this. So I took her back to mom's that night, and then she came back over the next day and she stayed the next night, and everything was great, you know. So try— I try to really—

again, I wouldn't want— I wouldn't want to— it sounds like you, you have a good gauge for it and feeling it. I would think from maybe other dads' perspectives, I wouldn't want it to evolve to a point to where we're slowly graduating, gradually losing that time because she is more comfortable at home, or maybe it's awkward for her, you know, whatever the reason is. But, you know, the situation's not, you know, because some dads don't even have that 2-bedroom apartment, you know, they're bunking with somebody else, um, or 1-bedroom or whatever it is, not so great area of town.

Yep.

I think if I were in that situation, I would still force the visits even if that makes the child unhappy to an extent, and just make it very clear that, you know, us spending time together I think is important. I don't want you to drift away from me, you know, and from that kind of perspective, and find a way to, I guess, communicate that. Um, and then, you know, I guess try and resolve whatever concern it is. If it's a bad neighborhood, get the hell out of the neighborhood. You know, the guy you're rooming with creeps her out, then, you know, find another roommate. You know, if it's, you know, there's just nothing to do, then, you know, get out to playgrounds or whatever it is. But I just wouldn't want it to— I could just see a path to where, you know, you go from 10 to 13 and all of a sudden, you know, she just— they're just never coming over anymore because it, you know, just slowly, gradually got there. And, you know, now there's, you know, friends. This is what my sister did. I think there were always friends to have sleepovers with. So, um, like finding reasons not to go.

Yeah, yep, yeah, for sure. You got to be aware of that. You made a good point there of talking to them and letting them know, like, hey, like, our time together is important. And, uh, and we definitely do still have a lot of fun and do a lot of things, and, and I communicate that with her. But I, I just try to be aware of what she's maybe dealing with at that time.

And, um, you You know, you're good at reading the different personalities of each of your kids and addressing.

I hope so. Yeah, I mean, it's another one of the hard things of being a divorced dad is not being there with them 24/7. And, and, you know, I'll admit it, moms are better gauges of that stuff than dads. You know, like, moms have that maternal instinct that is a God-given thing that makes them moms, you know. Dads have things that make us dads. And now I'm not trying to be their mom, but trying to hopefully get a little bit more of that understanding. And so, yeah, so yeah, I try to do that. The youngest one is the one that has indirectly said things that I can tell she's struggling with without like saying she's struggling. She frequently says, I want you to move back home. She said at Christmas she wanted me to go there to do Christmas with them. So, you know, I appreciate that, that she loves me, that she misses me enough. And then again, it breaks my heart that this sweet little, you know, child is thinking that and saying that. Yeah.

Um, yeah, at least it's not the other way, you know, we don't need you for Christmas this year, it's fine, I'll just stay at Mom's.

You know, I think I'm a pretty fun dad. We, we enjoy something. We have, we have a good time.

So And I'll say it's, I, um, you know, I think it's a really good point that, you know, your daughter wanted to go back, you took her back, and then she came back the next day.

Absolutely.

And there wasn't— because that's also good on the mom's side of she's not trying to play that up to the daughter of, oh yeah, yeah, it's terrible there, you should stay here, and, you know, keeping her there. Um, I think that's a good, good sign of things to come. I hope so.

I hope so. Absolutely.

So new, new stepdad in the mix on the other side, plus a new sibling, uh, way too soon in my opinion.

Um, yeah, absolutely. Um, these kids don't need that. These kids have gone through a lot. I, I do think it's been somewhat smooth-ish for a divorce, but with that said, it still takes time. It still needs this. Uh, there are 5 kids and Um, yeah, so with that said, he seems like a nice enough guy. He seems like a decent guy. Him and I actually have some similar interests in things, which is kind of funny. Um, so I, I hope he's about—

do you two get along?

Um, we—

or have you even associated?

We've met, we've, we've talked, we've done all that. Um, we don't talk regularly. No, we don't. Um, I, I would hope honestly that down the road we would. I would have no problem with that whatsoever. He's, you know, the stepdad of my kids and he's in the house with my kids. He's with them more than I'm with them. Think about that. Think about that.

Yeah, it sucks.

Sucks bad. Now with that said, what could I do about it? All I can do is make the best of it, right? And one of the things to make the best of it, in my opinion, is having a relationship with the guy. He seems like a good enough guy. I mean, he moved into the house. He's taking—

are you— any of your daughters expressed any discomfort with him moving in?

I've— biggest concern on Earth, um, is that, and I don't think so. Um, we've talked about it. He seems like a nice guy. He seems fun. I think they have a good time, you know, just overall is him around and jovial and stuff like that. So Um, I pray to God that they would tell me, and I, I do try to keep that communication very open and, and ask kind of, you know, lightly, how are things going, is everything okay? Um, and I pray, I pray that they would ever tell me if they did have some discomfort, but so far not. And I hope there is, and I, and I pray to God there isn't any.

So, oh, of course. And I, I, you know, I think you have a— it seems like you have a good enough relationship with them that they would come to you with any Any concerns?

Yeah.

Which is always a good thing. So how long until they're due?

Oh, only like 2 and a half months.

Wait, 2 months, 2 and a half months along or 2 and a half months from the baby?

From due. From due.

Okay. Yeah, that's super quick. And if we're having a morals and values conversation, that was pre-marriage.

So how was that? That was pre-engagement.

Oh, super. Um, yeah, any of you, uh, have you broached that subject with daughters of— I would prefer you take a different course.

I had, I, I had had that conversation with them before that, you know, back when we were talking about, talking about kids dating and what can happen, you know. Teenage pregnancy can happen. That happens before marriage, you know. I, I would hope that my girls would wait till marriage just to, you know, uh, have sex the first time. Um, do you actually say that?

Have you, have you said that?

Oh, 100%.

Okay, good, good.

I was raised Mormon, just so you know. So, um, you definitely believe that. Yeah, those, those values are there.

The dance teacher I was talking about that I was talking about earlier, Mormon.

The which one?

The dance teacher.

Oh, I thought it was— I thought it might have been. I thought it might have been. But hey, I'm, I'm far from perfect. I've made a lot of mistakes, um, stuff like that. But yeah, I try to just put those values in the girls. And I absolutely will say that, you know, like, um, what do you guys now— what are we—

what, sorry, are you still LDS or are you, uh—

I am, yeah, yeah, I know this. I'm not the most active member of the church, but when I go to church, that's where I go. And I think there's great family— I love the family values that the church teaches. It's a Christian-based religion, um, focuses on Christ and on family and on service. And I think those are all very, very important things.

So yeah, I know you guys have a lot of haters out there, um, but I, I actually like the church a lot. I'm Catholic. Um, you know, my thing with church, I just don't believe the third book. But I think everything like you guys teach and, and value-wise and the way you guys live is, you know, for the most part, pretty on point.

Yeah. Yeah.

And also the not drinking coffee thing bugs me because that was my business, but we sold a lot of coffee.

Number one drug in the world, caffeine, right? Yep.

So the counseling, I wanted to get back to that because they keep refreshing my head. So you guys went to counseling?

Oh yeah, a lot, a lot.

Okay, uh, together or separately or both?

Together mainly, and then separately.

Yeah.

Okay.

Were there any, um, were there any marked improvements in any, anything that they were suggesting or communication breakthroughs that was like trending things in the right direction? Or, um, you know, was it a terrible counselor or just, it's just one party?

Just phenomenal counselor. I still talk to him. Um, great counselor. I would definitely say there were a lot of good positives that came out of it. Um, she was just done. She was just done. Yeah, I actually heard this from a family counselor a long time ago, that, uh, they didn't like doing couples counseling because 9 times out of 10, one person was going to counseling just to get validation to get divorced. So I believe that was, you know, in my situation. But no, the counselor was good. You know, we just, we said a lot of life-changing stuff happening to us. But no, I think the counselor was good. And she'd even probably say the counselor was good. Good for her. Good for me. Made a lot of improvements. Obviously, the marriage didn't work out, unfortunately, but a lot of good stuff there. So, so yeah.

Were there any techniques that they had homework assignments, things like that, that they had gotten you guys to do that, that helped, I guess, project the relationship in a better direction?

Um, yeah, I'm trying to think of some specifics. Um, a donut, and you know, the donut's a circle and all the good stuff is on the outside of the circle, but in the middle there's nothing. Do you want to focus on the bad, on what's in the middle where there's nothing, or do you want to focus on the, the good part of the donut that's around it? Uh, it was really to try to help us in our marriage to focus on the good, focus on the positives. Uh, we also had a thing that we did, now that I'm remembering, was, um, write down like 3 things every day that we're thankful for. Um, I believe that we actually shared those with each other as well too. Along the line somewhere that I thought was pretty positive. Again, it was just a lot about trying to be thankful and focus on the positives is what it was. As far as, you know, things we needed to work on, heck, I had a lot I needed to work on. I still have a lot I needed to work on.

That's every human.

It is. It absolutely is. Trying to think of what some of those would be. I don't know if I can remember any of those. I mean, there was a lot of that early on in going to counseling. It was a lot of it was directed at me because she was the one that wasn't happy with everything, you know. It's like, what can Mark do to be better?

Um, usually what counselors are good at is rephrasing that, like, from the person, you know, that's mad and frustrated, being able to kind of reposition the conversation to where it's not all, hey, it's all Mark's fault. If he just changed everything about himself, this would be perfect. To where, you know, why you think it's Mark's fault, you know, what is Mark really doing, you know, what's his perception on it that, uh, you know, I guess getting into the whys of everything.

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, one of the things that the counselor said at the very, very end that will always stick with me was whatever happens with you guys, these things that you struggle with, kind of with how you struggle with the other person and how you deal with that, you're going to need to work on that whether you're married to this person or not. Because if you're not, on the dot. So always stuck in the way.

I would think when you get into the mindset of you want, you want the divorce, then Everything you're thinking about is greener on the other— the fantasy of this new life you're gonna create is always greener. The new guy, the new girl is gonna be better, gonna be better listener, cleaner, better looking, kinder, whatever it is. That's usually not—

Do you know what one of the biggest things was that I think came out of it? And I'll tell you, it came out of it for me, and I'm so much better for it. And I think it came out of it for her too. And I, and I remember some conversations and things that she was really trying to do was, you got to be happy with yourself. You got to be happy yourself. You got to take care of yourself. You got to do things for yourself. Doesn't mean you need to be selfish. Doesn't mean I need to go ride a motorcycle 10 hours a day and disappear from the family. But I need to do things to take care of myself. And it's spiritually, it's mentally, it's physically. And I'm so, so— absolutely, absolutely. So, um, you know, and I know she was working on that too. She absolutely was. Um, and then there's the whole codependent thing, right? You get that a lot in marriage where someone or both just become codependent on each other and their happiness depends on the other person's happiness, and then it just ends up in a vicious back and forth cycle. Um, there, there was a fair amount of talk talk about that. You know, I'll definitely admit that I was— I like making people happy. Maybe I'm too much of a people pleaser or whatever. Um, I had to learn— I will say this— I had— and I don't think I was too bad— but to do something, make someone happy with zero expectations of anything in return.

Yeah.

So, um, I— it Easier said than done, but that's one of the big, big things, dude. As crazy as this is, and I would never wish it on anyone to go through divorce, to go through this stuff. I went through a stroke. My mom died 7 and a half years ago. I've had some other challenges in life, divorce. Like, I'm so much better for it. Like, it's not the way you'd want to have to be better for it. It's not the way you want to have to grow and improve, but like in my next relationship, like, and I probably better father too, as much as I hate to say that really. Better father when I get to, you know, I wish I could be there more. I wish I could do more. But I just, you know, try to make hay while the sun shines.

So it seems like you really had to step back and assess everything. For sure. Like everything.

Oh, for sure. Still am, day in and day out. Planning for Christmas this year, I do assess that, you know.

Yeah, yeah, which is, I guess, yeah, that's good. I can see where that makes you more hyper-focused on it, and you know, whatever you focus on is going to improve.

Absolutely, absolutely.

All right, cool. Uh, I got like 14% battery left, so if you've got any—

I'm good—

and anything, then throw it in now or forever hold your peace.

I'm good, man. I don't know how you can edit this all together. We kind of went every which way.

It'll take me a little bit of time.

Cool.

I'll figure it out. Cool. All right, it was good talking to you.

All right, you too, man. Have a good night.

Yeah, see ya.

See ya.