S2:E9 Dad Advice Project-Podcast Interviews with Dads

And you might hear kid giggles in the back as they, uh, as they're watching their movies.

Um, are you driving, by the way?

I am not driving. My wife, um, and they say pretty short girls can't drive big trucks, but she's, she's, she's doing it.

Awesome.

So we, we, we had, uh, originally the entire day was slated clear. All we had to do is take my father-in-law back to the airport. And then, uh, for Mother's Day, I got her, um, the couple massages in St. George where the airport is, and the only times they had available was 4 o'clock today, which just happened to be the exact same time we had the podcast scheduled for. And then I just figured I'll be able to— we'll just find a place where kids can play and I'll just sit down and record and, uh, you know, everything will go smooth. And you saw how that went.

Well, I'll tell you what, you're a Renaissance man. I can't believe you got kids in the back, your wife driving, and we're doing this live.

Good for you. Yeah. Well, it's what you got to do sometimes. Uh, all right, so re-record intro. Uh, 100% Dad, uh, interviews with dads. We got Craig, uh, and Craig, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be here. Uh, I'll give you the, the quick intro. Uh, born and raised in San Diego. I'm a father of 3 boys, 1, 3, and 5 years old. Uh, married to an amazing woman named Nicole, and, uh, I am the Chief Operating Officer of an awesome business called Topgolf and the recent author of a book called The Dad Advice Project.

So, uh, how long you been married?

We are coming up on our, uh, 9th anniversary.

Oh, nice. Uh, 1, 3, and 5. And I think earlier you had said you were at Topgolf for what, 5, 6 years?

That's right. Yep, 5 years.

Uh, at what capacity did you start with them?

I've been the Chief Operating Officer, uh, since the day I became employed by Topgolf.

Okay, and that was around the time you had your first kid, right?

Yeah, it was, uh, maybe a year or so after. And then, uh, you know, first kid was born in New York City where we lived at the time, and our other two were, were born here in Dallas.

Okay, uh, what were you doing, uh, for a career before Topgolf?

You know, I moved around a little bit. I spent the early part of my career in consulting and private equity. I lived all over the world, all over the country, and, uh, finally decided to settle down when we got to Topgolf for a host of reasons and have never really looked back since.

Okay, so was Topgolf Like a hired hand in the, uh, the PE?

Yeah, basically that's right. I worked for a company that invested in Topgolf, and after 6 or 7 months of, of helping out with, uh, with Topgolf, uh, became a full-time job.

Okay, uh, and so how— so I, I did— the reason I'm going down this path is I know a lot of guys, especially in the corporate world, and you took more of a unique path there. But they struggle, they struggle with climbing that corporate ladder and putting the time and dedication that's required to do that and also spending enough time with their kids and their spouses. So I was going to see if you had any words of wisdom or experiences in that regard.

It's an awesome question and it's one I think I still struggle with on a daily basis. I'm not sure I've got any incredible wisdom to share on this one, but I'll tell you what's worked for me. Number one, the power of team is just incredible. And we've done this at Topgolf. I've done it in prior jobs. If you can get to a place where you can look a teammate in the eye and say, hey, I need to unplug for a couple hours or a day or a week. Can you, can you cover me? And by the way, you do the same thing for a teammate. Oftentimes in businesses, that's sort of looked at as a weakness, but I found it's a total strength and it helps create that work-life integration that's necessary to survive. I think the second thing too is a lot of families, and we did this at one point, try and separate personal life and professional life. And we've integrated the two. I mean, we take our kids to Topgolf all the time and they know our staff by name. They know what they like on the menu and taste test new food and try the new games. And, you know, I realize Topgolf's an easier business to do that in with young kids than many, but, you know, even before Topgolf, there were examples of where we tried to do it with friends and family, and it's been helpful for us.

So that's one of the reasons I love small business so much, is because you can, you can totally incorporate and mesh the two. And if you have to work late, you know, family can come down, just have dinner with you at the office or the warehouse, and it's, it's not frowned upon by, you know, the corporate hierarchy. So it's good to hear that, that there's some, uh, some, some corporate entities that are able to pull that off.

Yeah, look, I think COVID actually accelerated this for the better. I mean, for most people at Topgolf, they're still working at home full-time, and they found a way to be with their kids in the mornings and pick them up from school and go to practices. And honestly, if I look at productivity and enthusiasm, I don't think either have really suffered in a material way. Yes, there are peaks and valleys, but we've learned how to do both, and I really hope that continues for, for years to come.

That's interesting. Uh, so there was no drop-off when everyone switched to, uh, remote working?

It's actually the opposite. All the research we're seeing and what we're hearing is that it's harder to have separation when you don't come to the office. And so people are actually working harder than they have before. And so I think our job as leaders is to figure out, you know, in a mostly work-from-home environment, how do you prevent burnout?

So you're saying research, which I mean, I assume you're a private equity guy. You just read a lot of those fun white papers that are super entertaining. To read. Are you guys experiencing that within Topgolf itself?

Yeah, for sure. I don't think Topgolf is really any different from the norm. I think, you know, the general trends that you pick up on in those really interesting white papers that you allude to are consistent, you know, across the industry. We also try and do a good job of, you know, talking to our staff directly, surveys, conversations, to get a sense for for how they're feeling, and we do our best to keep everyone engaged.

That's cool to hear. So, uh, tell me about this book project of yours.

Yeah, well, it's a cool story. So, you know, unfortunately, I don't have a great relationship with my dad, and that was a big void in my life, particularly as we started down the journey of becoming parents. And so about 2 and a half years ago, we had just had our second, I asked a handful of buddies to write me a letter on how to be a good dad. And I was sort of inspired from someone else who had done that with his dad. And what I got back from my friends was incredible. It ranged from David Letterman-style top 10 lists that were funny but thoughtful to letters they wrote their kids and everything in between. And the project in the last 2.5 years, it basically snowballed and it ended up collecting 42 submissions from dads from all walks of life, professional athletes, TV personalities, civic leaders, military veterans, and so forth. And with a little bit of encouragement from them, we approached a few different publishers, and, uh, the Dad Advice Project is a book that will actually come out on June 1st.

Where is that available?

Yeah, go to Amazon to find it, Barnes Noble. You can even get it from our website, dadadviceproject.com.

Cool. And so how did you, uh, I guess, how did you go about soliciting? Uh, I assume it was more than 40 that you reached out to, but, uh, are these people you personally knew or just, uh, you had a contact list somewhere, or, uh, how'd you get a hold of these people?

Yeah, that's the— that to me is the coolest part. Every single one of these authors are close personal friends, and You know, at the beginning, it wasn't really a reach out. It was, we'd be at a barbecue with some friends and it would come up and guy would say, hey, yeah, happy to contribute. I'd love to write you something. And then as it started to pick up steam, I was intentional about who I asked. And I tried to ask a group of guys who represent a cross-section of my world, granddads and brand new dads. Um, and unfortunately, most of the guys actually, oddly enough, said yes. And what was even more bizarre in a cool way, was that, uh, you know, after they agreed to write and submitted something, they all said thank you to me. And I thought, that's kind of odd, you're the one who did me the favor. But what they told me was that the project was one of the first times in their parenthood journey, no matter how long they had been on it, that, you know, it really forced them to be reflective. And I think that was a pretty refreshing thing.

So I am probably the worst writing student in the world. And if you, if you followed my page, the grammar Nazis jump on me every once in a while. But I genuinely, I like writing because it gives you that kind of clarity and you have to sit there and reflect. All right. Mr. Desmond. All right. So my point was there, I totally get the I totally get what they were saying because while I was awful at writing, I genuinely enjoy writing just in my own way because that gives me such, you know, you use a great word, reflection there, where you really got to put thought into it. When you put pen to paper, um, it just, it just really clears up everything for you. You get a better image and a better path to follow and a better understanding of a subject you live every day, but You just really don't, you know, maybe don't always reflect on it and certainly don't put that much effort into it. So I love it. I mean, I almost encourage any father to kind of sit down and at least, you know, write out your values and your, you know, your reasons why you think the way you do or you act the way you do, which is a weird thing to do if you're just, you know, if you're not used to it. It just, it gives you a lot of a lot of clarity and some solid perspective.

I totally agree. And I think that feedback was consistent from the guys who wrote something. And what's actually kind of cool is when you, when someone sits down to write something, their voice tends to shine through. And so as you, as you go through the book, you know, chapters may range from a half a page to 3 or 4 pages, but every single one of them like you really get a sense for who the author is through the tone of his voice.

That's always good. So how long are those submissions? Are they just like one-pagers, two-pagers?

They're short. This is what I would affectionately refer to as a leave it on the toilet seat kind of book. You can read a chapter in the morning and 4 days later come back, pick up the book, and you're still in good shape. And, you know, it takes somewhere between 30 seconds and 4 minutes to read a submission.

That's good. You know whose book was like that I really liked? Um, I might have to look to see if he's written more. Is, uh, Mike Rowe, uh, the Dirty Jobs guy. He wrote a book and it was kind of based off stories of his podcast, but he's actually a really good writer. So I just read that like 3 weeks ago, so it's fresh on my brain. Um, but his— each chapter was its own, its own story. So you, you know, you can set it down, pick it back up, and, you know, you don't have to remember what was going on. You'll get lost in the, a long, in-depth process. But, uh, I enjoy books like that every once in a while.

I love it. I'll check it out.

Uh, yeah, he's also a good writer because he makes you think one thing's happening and then twists it at the very end. And I, he, so I don't know a lot about him. Um, you know, I used to watch him 10 years ago on, on Dirty Jobs when I was in college. I guess that was more than 10 years ago. Uh, But, he's actually a really gifted writer. I really enjoyed reading this book. So, I hope he has more out there, but it might be his only one.

One other quick recommendation for you or any of your listeners. If you like books like this, check out "Tools of Titans" by Tim Ferriss. He writes 1 to 3 page summaries about spending time with just these unbelievable people. And, he divides the book into 3 sections, health, wealth, and wisdom. And, really good read.

Tim Ferriss, Tools of Wisdom. Okay. Does it come out June 1st or is it already out?

Book, uh, the book is listed on Amazon and Barnes Noble. It'll be delivered, we think, by June 1st.

And okay, so these are pre-sales?

We're in pre-sale now. Yep.

Okay. And is this, uh, so you're saying delivered, so I assume that means these are physical hard copy books?

Physical hard copy book fits in your briefcase. And, uh, actually, here's what's one thing that's kind of cool. All the authors in the book came to my house this past week in Dallas to meet each other for the first time and celebrate the project they contributed to. And we filmed some content. So, anybody who leaves a review or buys a book and sends us a copy of their receipt or review to gift@dadadviceproject.com, we're going to send them a video of all these authors giving their advice on how to be a good dad.

That's cool. How do you get— I can't get my next-door neighbors to all come to the house at the same time, much less 42 people from around the country. Jeez.

Yeah, it was special.

That's cool. So what is one of the, uh, I guess give me some of your better takeaways from this book, some of the better things you picked up that, uh, I don't know, just made a mark, impacted you somehow.

I'd say there's two types of advice I took away from the book. The first are a series of themes that are most common and showed up more than any others. Love your wife and make sure your kids see it. Make sure your kids feel psychologically and physically safe. Make sure they know failure's okay. Those types of themes. And you have to decide, you know, whether because they came up so often, that makes them obvious or makes them really important. Maybe both. For me, it's a reminder to keep those themes top of mind. The second type of theme that came up are one-off really interesting tactical ideas that only one author shared. But as I learned the ideas, we started implementing them within our family and it's just made a really cool adventure out of parenting.

So, can you be more specific?

Yeah, absolutely. Let me give you 2 or 3 examples. One example comes from a guy named Josh Redstone. Josh has this tradition with his family where when they do family dinners and set the table, and they eat together all the time, but they may set the table only once a month, they'll take turns and have every kid and adult one by one stand on their chair, introduce themselves to the rest of the family by name, state their age, and then say one thing that they're grateful for. And so, we started doing this as a family. And now, when we do family dinners, unprompted, our kids decide who's going to go first and say what they're grateful for. By the way, everyone knows practicing gratitude creates joy in your life.

Absolutely.

I'll give you one more example. I think the world is sometimes, particularly lately, overly serious. And one of the authors, a guy named Chris Stroud, who plays on the PGA Tour, he's got two beautiful daughters. He and his wife at least once or twice a year take ridiculously silly photos and make a point to frame those photos and put 'em up in their house. And it's a constant reminder to their girls that their parents were with them for some fun times. And, and we've done the same thing with ours.

An elaboration of that documenting, uh, kids when they're younger. I am such a big proponent of now, cuz that's what we're doing. And, uh, before we went on this tour, I was kind of, wasn't a little bit more against it. I was more of like, if you're gonna be somewhere with your kids, like stay in the moment. Moment, you know, get off your phone. And I'm still there, but now I'm more of pull out your phone and, and, you know, take some time to record those playground moments, those times at the park when you go to the Children's Museum, uh, when you're, when you're just out doing stuff at dinner, like get some pictures, get some video, um, and then stitch it all together like monthly, quarterly, yearly, um, and, you know, basic editing just so it's not shaky footage and boring and, you know, 6 hours of watching a kid look at a seal. Um, uh, because man, as, as time rolls on, that stuff my wife has from her childhood that our kids love to watch, and I— there's something like, now that I'm older, I never cared before, but now that I'm older, I kind of wish there was that kind of footage of me when I was younger. And now that we have it of our kids, I like, even at this age, going back and reflecting on how they were younger, and they like watching themselves younger. And I think it's just, it's going to be timeless stuff that we will never be sorry that we did.

Yeah, I totally agree. And by the way, we have no excuses. When we were kids, you needed like some giant camcorder and a VCR in order to watch yourself, and times have changed.

Oh, it's super easy now, and editing programs are free and easy. I mean, you don't have to be Steven Spielberg. You just, you know, you just chop away the boring stuff and keep it organized. Yep. So, so with that many people, I would think that there'd be some, as you read through it, there'd be some maybe conflicting advice where one guy tells you one thing, another guy tells you another. Did you come across any of that?

Absolutely. So the, the number one debate is whether quality or quantity of time are more important.

Did you come to a conclusion?

Well, for myself, I think the conclusion is, unfortunately, it's both. But I think there are some dads who firmly believe it's one or the other. I don't think that's true. Although, I'll tell you an interesting story. I remember going to an event once and the guy who gave the talk, it was a talk on work-life balance. He and his wife, a couple other husband and wife. Couples who were both professionals and working gave this talk. And, you know, someone said, give me your best piece of advice on parenting. And the speaker's wife told this story where she said, you know, I came home from work one day, my twin daughters were 9 years old, and I told them, guess what, girls, mommy's got great news. Because I don't get to spend as much time with you as I'd like, I quit my job today. So now I can spend all my free time when you're home from school together. And the girls started crying. And the mom said, "That was not the reaction I was looking for after I'd quit my job to spend more time with my girls." And the girls chimed in and they said, "But Mom, you love your job and we love hearing the stories you tell from your job. That's just kind of who you are and what we do as a family." And the speaker, the husband chimed in and he said, "Look, kids are not born with a sense of normalcy." you create it for them. And you got to constantly check in to make sure that sense of normalcy is healthy. But be careful before you make really big life shifts because in this case, the girls loved hearing Mommy's work stories and she had no idea and ended up making a really tough decision.

Big decisions I think should be talked about as a family. We're doing that right now with, we kind of said we would never sell the house. We've kept our house in Florida. So we had something to come back to and now we're extending our tour from 2 years to 3 years. And, uh, we've gotten a couple really solid offers, more than— real estate's going crazy, more than I think the house is worth. So we're sitting there saying, well, it's paid off. We can just take that. And our investments are going crazy. So shoot, we'll just plug it in and, you know, those will do better than, um, than the real estate market will. And then hopefully everything crashes in a couple of years and we come back and just buy an awesome place even less. So a little roll of the dice there, but it's something we've been definitely talking to our kids about because those— I mean, those are big stressors. It's a big move. And, you know, especially for us, that's the only house they've ever known. They grew up there and, you know, we were kind of talking about that's the house we'll be coming back to. So we won't pull that trigger without, you know, everyone kind of being on the same page. Not that they get to determine our decision, But, you know, they'll definitely be in the loop and their opinions will be counted.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, good for you guys. I hope it works out.

Time. I think if you have to choose, I think time, the quantity of the time is more important than the quality of the time. It is both. You're absolutely right. If you put a gun to my head and make me choose, quantity is more important.

Yeah, I think I agree.

That's, that's, that's my logic, and I have reasons behind that. Did your book— did the proceeds go somewhere?

Yeah, so when I was a kid growing up, I went to the Boys and Girls Club in San Diego, and so the Boys and Girls Club is a, is a partner with us and will be a proud beneficiary of, of the project.

Great. So all your fathering experience is while you're at Topgolf though, right? You didn't have fathering, uh, in any other company?

Excuse me, one year of fathering pre-Topgolf.

Okay, uh, what kind of company was that?

Private equity.

Uh, what were you doing? Yeah, my job— consulting?

Yeah, I was trying to help companies grow.

That was my job. Okay, so what were you— so you go from what I assume, uh, close to a 10-year career, uh, without having kids, so where you can kind of focus on that thing And then this thing is born and you don't sleep anymore. It screams a lot. There's tremendous stress in the house. Uh, what are the big things you struggled with, uh, uh, going from that life to the new life with this screaming ball of goo that just doesn't seem to get happy all the time?

It's an awesome question. I, I, I think I struggled with a couple things at, at first, this crazy sense of guilt. It's like, wait, I'm going to work and my wife has to figure out how to nurse and do diapers and all these things. Like work just seemed trivial relative to that. So there was definitely a sense of guilt. I think, uh, as the baby got older, and this is an odd thing to admit, but when I talked to dads about it, most of them can relate. Moms have this instant connection with their kids, or at least many moms do. And I definitely had a connection, but it was different. Like after 40 minutes of rolling on the floor, there's only so much you can do with a 4-month-old. And it wasn't until, you know, kids got a little bit older where I really, really felt that deep connection because we could talk or we could wrestle or we could play a sport together. And now I'm absolutely head over heels for all 3 of my kids. But candidly, it's, at least for me with our first, it wasn't that way right out of the gates because it's just, it was harder to form a bond when we couldn't interact the same way that, you know, maybe a nursing mother and her newborn child could.

Sure. You're putting in the time to form the bond, but practically it's boring.

That's it. That's the challenge.

I get that. I think that's, I think just about every father is going to feel that. It's not that we don't feel something special. We're not super excited. We don't love this thing unconditionally. We wouldn't do anything for it. Totally. Just, it doesn't do a lot. You, you kind of toss it up and down a little bit and make it laugh a few times. And, you know, uh, there were plenty of times— shoot, I think I almost— I fell asleep a few times playing with my kid, just laying on the floor. Just might have taken a 5 or 6 minute nap there.

You got it, you got it.

And I do think there is a natural shift between kids, kind of— they kind of hang out with their moms a lot and You know, that's the comfort and the loving, the more loving parent. And then, you know, as we get to these older stages, it's going to shift to, especially with boys, because I think if I remember right, you have all boys. It's going to be a lot of adventures and going out and just doing boy stuff and man stuff with dad. And, you know, totally. I'm in the same boat as you. I'm super excited about that. I want to do, especially now that we're really exploring the country, like, I want to just go out. And a truck and some tents and maybe a canoe or two and just spend like 2, 3 months of a summer just going down rivers and camping on the banks and, you know, fishing for food and trying not to get eaten by bears. Like, I think, you know, as the boys are teenagers, I just think that would be a ton of fun.

Yeah, totally agree with you.

Unless we get actually eaten by a bear, which would make it less fun.

You won't remember it, so it'll probably be okay.

Well, I, you know, I'm somewhat athletic. I'm hedging on the fact that I can outrun at least one of my kids.

Don't look back.

Yeah, I've learned. So we're East Coasters. Black bear, you just scare away. Like, you stomp at them and yell at them and they run away. And we've learned these West Coast bears are not the same. You stomp at a grizzly bear and you're dinner.

What are you supposed to do? Just freeze?

Uh, bear spray. Everyone just says bear spray. That's it. Like, you have bear spray, you deploy bear spray. Uh, and that seems to be like the most effective thing because, you know, I'm, I'm, uh, I usually carry and they say unless you just get a, a good clean headshot, you're just pissing that thing off and it's going to come charging at you and kill you. It's just like bullets aren't— they have so much adrenaline and, and anger that runs through them that it's just, they don't feel it. They don't stop. It's weird.

Where in the country are you guys on this epic camping adventure?

Oh, all over. Um, I think we've done this year, we just hit our 12-month, uh, uh, 2 days ago. So we've been a full year now.

And the kids are homeschooled?

Yeah, we homeschooled prior. So Florida's got a big homeschooling community. I think Texas does too. And so it's a very normal thing, you know, all the kids kind of wake up when they wake up and have breakfast and homeschool, and they're all done by noon and they all go to the beach and play. So, um, so we were homeschooling before, we homeschool now. We've been out for a year, uh, we've done 30,000 miles, I think 22 states. Um, this, this where we're at right now is our 60th campsite, and then every campsite we go off and do you know, who knows how many cities and parks and campgrounds and things. So it's, it's been, it's been wild and fun. But the grizzlies are in that, um, Montana, Dakota, Idaho, uh, like that region. And I hear they get even meaner up into Canada. So we're gonna— we can't get into Canada, um, not, not without getting a big fine. But they, uh if you don't have a hard-sided camper, like up in Banff, which is up just north of Glacier in Montana, you have to camp in an electric fenced area. So like, I don't want, I don't want to have these encounters. All right, let's bring this back around to, uh, because I'll talk about this tour forever, uh, let's bring this back around to The book.

Here's one just observation at the end of the project. Uh, it, it, in work, at work, we're trained to give and receive feedback. And if I've learned something from this project, I think the dads who seem to live really healthy lives, both as husbands and also as parents, it's very similar for them, right? Where they're actually talking actively about what's working and what's not with their fam— with their families, as opposed to just evolving and looking back and wondering, huh, did we evolve in the right way? They're making intentional choices and talking about it along the way. And I think when you read the book, the passages that really set themselves apart are the ones where the author gets incredibly vulnerable. And I've learned as I've become more vulnerable with my kids, with my wife, with other buddies who were willing to share tips and tricks, the easier it is to sort of course correct something that may be going going sideways.

I like the aspect of, uh, you know, in business you're, you're always seeking a better way, better improvement, better user experience, better customer experience, more efficiency, um, and applying that, applying that level of effort, maybe not the exact same tactics, but applying that level of effort to your family. How can I make my marriage better? How can I, how can I make that relationship stronger? How can I be a better father? And it seems to be the dads I talk to that are actually putting that thought and effort into it are the ones that excel.

Totally.

Topgolf is probably an outlying example. Um, uh, I've met dads in the corporate world, and so I'm curious how much, how much you see of in the corporate world of probably more in the executive or the more career— how much do you see in the corporate career world where fathers are ignoring their kids? To climb that corporate ladder, or they're kind of ignoring their— they've gotten their priorities out of order and maybe too focused on the career.

There's no doubt there are plenty of dads, and for that matter, moms, who put their career before other things in their lives. No doubt about it. I do think if I look back my childhood and my buddies and their parents, and I compare that to the dynamics I see today with with my friends who are now, you know, parents of their own kids, it does feel like there's been a pretty dramatic shift in what it means to be a dad. I mean, I remember as a kid growing up, dads in the neighborhood would leave on Saturday morning to go play golf, and then they do it the same thing on, on Sunday morning. I just don't think that happens to the same degree today, at least in the circles we run in. I feel like there's more shared responsibilities and there's a recognition people need alone time, but the responsibilities appear to be at least a little bit more shared. I do think one of the things I've learned and observed is that people have freedom to make choices, and there are plenty of people who pack the bag on Friday night to go meet with clients. And I think it's— and I found myself doing this too, if I'm totally honest with you. I'll tell my wife from time to time, it's because I have to do it and it's part of the job. And yes, there are examples where it really is part of the job, but more often than not, it's because I actually really enjoy what I'm about to go do. And I just need to be thoughtful to make sure that that Friday night to Sunday morning trip is actually more important than being a present husband or a present father. And I've learned that it's totally acceptable at times to say, yeah, I'm going to prioritize this guy's trip or this work trip. But then there are other times where as badly as I want to go, it's just, it's not the right thing if we're playing the long game.

Sure. And I've always liked the term seasonal. Like, sometimes you need to put your head down and get stuff done. And, you know, work does provide for the family. It does provide for your future. There's real needs for that. And that's not to be understated. And me, work feeds my soul. Like, I think if I have an addiction, it's to work. I genuinely enjoy it. I like it a lot. If I was a bachelor, you know, I would probably have a loft at my office or warehouse where I could just sleep there because I like burning the midnight oil. Like, I like, I like pushing things forward. I just, I like that, you know, I guess you call that the grind, like almost like the hard times more than the good times. But it's seasonal, you know, as a father, it was so Maybe it might be a stretch of a few weeks or a couple of months of just, you know, we've got a new business and we've got to push this thing hard and we just don't get to see kids a lot. And in the small business world, they can come to you, you can come to them in the middle of the day, things like that. So it's a little different, especially with the homeschooling family. But then there were other times where business is good and I can be home breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And, you know, it was a— it was an excess of time with the family to make up for the excess of time without the family. I get it. Which I— it's why I love small business. I, I just think that's easier to achieve when you can kind of— when you work in that type of environment.

Um, you sound like a hell of a dad. You've, uh, put a lot of thought in this. I'm— I, I admire it.

Curious about this. So I knew from a young age I wanted to be a dad. Like, I, like, I, I looked forward to the aspect of having a family. Um, and I knew I wanted to have them young so I could kind of like So I kind of play with them and relate to them. Like, I guess my father was younger, um, and so like we could wrestle around and I just always kind of liked that. You just kind of remember it better and you're, you know, your knees aren't hurting and all that kind of stuff. It's just something I always wanted to be. And then as I got older and I understood, like you said, you kind of know your circumstances. I was born into a divorced family, so it was, it was, uh, that's all I ever knew. Um, like there wasn't a crushing moment where, you know, mom and dad split. But once I got older, you know, I kind of realized how those things were going and I kind of started to sit there and say, all right, these are things I like and these are things I don't like. You know, like I genuinely don't like the thought of divorce. I don't like what that did to the family. Um, because as I got older, I started to recognize what was happening in those custody battles and I started to recognize what, you know, mom's saying about dad and dad's saying about mom and, you know, what the stepparents are saying. And, uh, as I got even older, my dad divorced again. So I got to like witness that firsthand where that didn't break my heart because it was a stepmom, but you know, I could see it with my sister, who was— that was her mom and dad, you know. It was a crushing blow to her. Um, and it was just something I kind of made up my mind early, like, I want a family, want to have them young, I want to be super involved. And, you know, I, I don't ever want to be divorced. Like, I don't ever want to be in custody battles. I don't want to ever be in front of a judge arguing that the woman I picked is a bad mother all of a sudden and that she shouldn't have as much time, or like That stuff just gets nasty. And from a very young age, I know I didn't, I didn't want that for my family. Like I wanted to be a better example.

Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I just really appreciate you having me on. I, I, what a privilege to get to know you a little bit better and to share tips and tricks from the Dad Advice Project and to honestly hear about your own experiences and I'm really looking forward to spending more time and continuing to listen to your podcast. I think what you're doing is really cool.

Absolutely. And put it one more time for the closing statements, where to find the book and when it gets released.

Book is called The Dad Advice Project. Go find it on Amazon. It comes out June 1st, just before Father's Day.

Perfect. So, the perfect Father's Day present.

There you go.

Alright! Thanks for coming on! Hey!

Really appreciate it! Let me know when it goes up so I can send it to my buddies and promote what you're doing!

Absolutely! Have a good one!

Alright! Take care!

Bye! Huge thanks to Craig Kessler on this! This is really our first big promotion. We really don't put a lot of products out there and promote them but this is a solid book. This is something, you know, we've done a little bit of ourselves is getting dad stories and dad wisdom and putting it out there from a multitude of different perspectives. So I think it's a great book. I think everyone should certainly consider and look into it, check it out. It never hurts to get dad tips and dad pieces of wisdom from other dads, especially dads that have done it right. This is 100% Dad Podcast, interviews with dads.