S3:E1 IWD with Johnny Eastman AKA @TheTattooedHusband

That's been my biggest problem with podcasts, is just signal. Kind of awesome about doing this one in person. Yeah, more of these, that'd be great, especially if this works out well. Yeah, because what happens is I'll do these, 20, 30 minutes into it, it'll start getting glitchy and the, um, the audio will start skipping, the video will start skipping, the video drop completely. Uh, which is why our podcast productivity has not been as high as I would like it. What, what do you do for a living? Now we manage some investments. Yeah, and, uh, 100% that is technically my occupation, although it drains, drains hundreds of thousands of dollars from me. Probably continue to do so until we figure out a way, um, start doing sponsorships and partnerships and advertising. Maybe put on live events to create some sort of revenue, release a book. Yeah, those kind of things.

Have you heard of the Bucket List Family?

Yeah, my wife follows them.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so I thought that was big time, but I saw how much he sold for and I'm like, okay.

Yeah, well, because I was like, what do these people do that they're able to just do this? They make it just look like they can look so easy.

Yeah.

What is this guy doing that allows him to do this? And I guess he created the facial recognition software, Snapchat. Yeah, or something.

I think it was on—

Yeah, and something.

I think they sold it for $50 million.

Let's go.

You're the Tattooed Husband? Yes. What else? What do you do? Like, what is the page? What do you do for a living?

Yeah, yeah. So I'm the Tattooed Husband. Kind of the backstory, so my wife and I met on a mission trip called the World Race where you go to 11 different countries in 11 months. And so she just felt like this message that was put on her heart that she needed to use coffee as a vehicle to help women get out of sex trafficking. And so we got home from this mission trip, and, uh, we knew nothing about coffee or anything. And so we weren't even married yet, and so we got married about 8 or 9 months after this trip. We didn't know anything about coffee, so We were like, let's open up a coffee shop. Well, it costs a lot of money to open up a coffee shop and we had no money. And so we're like, well, okay, if we can't have people come to us for coffee, then we will go to people with coffee. And so we created basically this coffee pop-up shop. That was great, but it was not profitable at all. And so we were like, okay, how do we make this a little bit more profitable? And so we just went full-scale coffee subscription. Kristen and I, we were butting heads, kind of both being the bosses. I said, listen, I'm just going to be your biggest fan. You take I'll just do the social media. And I knew nothing about social media at that point.

That was a smart call marriage-wise. Yeah.

I was doing the social media stuff. I just kind of learned some practices, listened to a lot of stuff, tried to figure out what was working, what wasn't working for social media. And then social media for— it was called Sweet Aroma Coffee. It was blowing up. And so I was like, well, shoot, if this works for this, then I want to try it for my account. So, or whatever my first Instagram account was called, turned into The Tattooed Husband. And I was already being more creative. And more intentional about branding was about 7 years ago. And then that was when Instagram was kind of the wild, wild west where you could just like grow like crazy.

Like with the cans? Totally.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

With the coffee company, it was acquired by another coffee company for our subscription model. That was kind of the genesis or the birth of the social media stuff. So if anything, the coffee stuff could have been the reasoning behind all the social media stuff, growth, and the learning of that, because it's been such a great source of income since then.

So you started off in coffee, learned social media because of coffee, got good at it, and now jettisoned away coffee.

Yeah, so I do the social media stuff. I've always done the social media stuff, and then kind of in the interim, in the last 6 years, we transitioned a lot, we moved a lot. We were really restless after that mission trip. And didn't really feel like we didn't know where we wanted to be. And so we moved to California twice. I used to work in pharmaceuticals for a while, but I knew if I'm doing this in 30 years, I will have wasted my life. And so what was really important for me and what I value is really freedom to choose what life looks like and really to make life happen rather than life just happen to me.

Sure.

I got out of pharmaceuticals, moved back here. We were going to move to South Africa. To work with a ministry and it ended up imploding. And so we ended up staying here and we helped to plant a church here locally. We were pastors, student pastors for a while, transitioned out of that and focused fully on social media for about a year and a half or two, managing people's social media, growing it for them. I think that was, it was very lucrative for us. And then as I began to see changes happening Maybe a client would drop off here or there, um, work began to get harder and harder. I was like, okay, I need to just plan a little bit for the future. And so I began to seek out other opportunities, other options. I didn't want to stop doing social media, but I, but I did want to not fully rely on it when it was so, when it's so unpredictable. It's like renting. It's like building a house on rented land because at any point they could pull the plug and it could be dead. And then what?

How I feel about Instagram right now.

Yeah, exactly right. Yeah. So, and that's what I mean. And I've had my account stolen and I've had it blocked and I've had it deleted. So I was able to kind of through some friends and connections found out about a company in Southern California. They create roundtable peer groups for Christian CEOs and business owners because there's a level of empathy that That's like a C7 type thing. Uh, well, there's something— so yeah, so it's like C12, it's called, it's called Kinnipin. Um, and it's, uh, I was actually talking to somebody today about how, um, we're different in some ways but same in some ways. Uh, peer groups for Christian CEOs, it's super isolating to be a business owner, and then you have— and then you had a faith component to that, and it's a whole other level of isolation. Um, so we went out there and we, and we worked for them in an office. And for the last, you know, prior 5.5, 6 years, I was my own boss. I was an independent contractor, kind of had the freedom to go as I please and didn't have anyone telling me what to do. So then I trained.

So what role were you doing?

Business development. So helping them grow these groups, connecting with members.

So you were finding memberships to join and finding leaders?—

Yeah, but more specifically members. So there's somebody else, and it's a small team, there's like 8 of us, and then we serve like 600 or 700 members all over the United States. Okay.

So I've always liked the idea of that because that's something I always tried to build on my own, but business owners, other guys, because I've tried to do a few different Bible studies, but everyone's got busy lives. Wednesday nights don't work for him, Wednesday mornings work for him, then when it comes to it, hey, this came up so I can't make it. So it's always been a struggle to get dads or guys together consistently. Yeah. And I found out about C12, went to one of theirs, like, these are people. Yeah, this is what I've been looking for. There's a Christian element to it, these are smart, successful businessmen. Um, and then they told me, I forget how much it was, I think it was like $15,000 a year or $20,000.

Yeah, it's like a couple, it's like a grand a month. And so it's like the difference Yeah, and so when a lot of people don't have that ability to find that community, and so when I talk to people and they say, listen, I have a group of guys that I'm already meeting with, and that— I was like, great, then KinVee might not be for you. But if you don't, you feel isolated and you feel like you can't find people who can relate with you from a professional standpoint and a biblical standpoint, And that's really hard to find because there's real discussions when you're a business owner about, you know, how do I manage these employees, right?

How do I deal with these customers? Yeah. And still in an integrity way, right? Not everyone, because I've had real discussions with other business partners where it's kind of screw the employees attitude, right? Um, you know, they're the slave, you're the master kind of relationship, uh, technically with customers of like, and they think that's good business. And I just, I've always been very opposite of that, like not necessarily like 100% transparent, just like the intent of everything to be genuinely good for the customer, because without the customer, no business. Yeah. And genuinely, like, take, like, the employees, like, you have things you need to do, like, there are criteria that need to be met, um, and we're going to, like, strictly enforce those things. But at the same time, you're a person, you have a family you want to see. Yeah. Um, you want to be somewhat happy at work. And that was always, as a business owner, my biggest struggle about my communication with employees And the way I managed was never— now that I reflect on it, I could have been so much better because I just had a habit of when things were not going well, when an employee was struggling, I would just kind of clamp down. And I was under the impression that business or employees should almost operate and act as if they were the business owner because that's how I always did. Yeah, when I was a teenager working for Caesar's Pizza, like, I wanted Caesar's Pizza to be like the best pizza place in the world. And like, if I was gonna make a pizza, it was gonna be amazing. I was gonna do this, this is Like, this is gonna be perfect. Yeah, like, I was gonna show up early, I'd stay later. You know, we need to do a deep clean at night, I'm your man.

How many people like you then? Because, yeah, it's not saying that we're even CCs, and that's—

well, that was teenager. Um, I always had that expectation. Look, and now that I've sold and I've kind of sat back and reflected on it, I was like, it's not how a business is treated. They're not the owners. And I think it took me having an exit like I did to sit there and say, yeah, they didn't get the benefit of that. Like, the reason I— although I did it for other employers. Yeah, like personally, I'd rather— hey, I'm a minority in my personality. Um, but B, yeah, I mean, they don't have the ownership. Yeah, so they don't have that, that benefit of building your net worth. And so to an extent, yeah, they get to check out and go home and just leave their trouble.

Yeah.

And like, if you can foster that environment to where we get things done and not have that expectation that they should be that 100% in that you want, treat it like it's an ownership— I probably should have done a better job of doing that fostering. Or, you know, we tried to the same point, it was about your family and things like that. Um, but also, you know, hey, that work needs to be done. You're gonna be here till 7 or 8 doing it, or you need to come in at 4 o'clock in the morning, that needs to end. That was probably too aggressive. And when things would go south, I would just bear down harder. I saw a performance not being up to expectation, I would micromanage because there was a need for it. Yeah. And I'm just that—

yeah, I'm not that kind of— yeah.

And I'm more of an aggressive personality to where if someone talked to me the way I talked to them Like it's just fact, fact, fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It's not much consideration for feelings because we're addressing real issues that needs to be fixed. And I'm just not thinking about feeling this way. If you told me really— then face it, I'm not— it's not an insult to me personally. Okay? Those things need to be fixed. But like I'm realizing, I realized after, yeah, they hurt people's feelings and those matter.

Professional world and then Christian world, if you join a Bible study or small group, almost no other business owners in that small group or that Bible study or whatever whatever it is and say, listen, I'm hemorrhaging $50,000 a week. I need to figure this out. And people are gonna pray for you. And that's incredible. And that's what you need. But it doesn't solve your $50,000 a week hemorrhaging problem, right? And so to surround yourself with people who are also business leaders who can help you figure that problem out in a way that you don't have to compromise your faith, your integrity, your values is incredibly valuable. So that's what we moved to Southern California for. We were driving into California, my wife and I both thought, what in the world did we just do? Why do we move all the way away from family? Why are we here? And this was October of '19 that we had moved, and so right before the pandemic kind of hit the fan. We were there at about 3 or 4 months in, and I began to have conversations with the executive team saying, hey, listen, I love working with Conveen. We can't stay here. And there are a couple of reasons. I love Conveen, and I want to keep working with you all. But what was really hard for me is that I had traded all of this freedom for going into an office, uh, 8 hours, 8, 9 hours a day, um, and then fighting traffic on the way to and from. So, uh, Orange County.

So we're in Orange County.

Yeah, I'm spending 8 hours away from people that I'm not opposed to, driving an hour and a half to 2 hours total per day as well. So I'm spending a third of my day away from, from the things that matter most to me.

Yeah.

And a third of my day turns into a third of my week, month, year, life.

That's such a fair thing from a father's standpoint. Yeah. Because that travel, like what you did, what so many people— I mean, people in St. Augustine, St. Augustine's a great place to live, work in Jacksonville, right? Our Jacksonville, our back. Like, you're living somewhere for a quality of life and you're working for a quality of life. That's so much time. I hated driving so much. I had an office out 7 minutes away, and I moved to an office out 4 minutes away. That's how much I hated driving. Yeah. And then to go to Jacksonville where we had clients and everything, I did not enjoy it. But I think that's a real thing to consider is how much time you're spending in the car. And a lot of people— and I don't know why, you clearly don't— you know, when you seem to have an assessment of, hey, I'm doing this thing, it's working well, um, I'm starting to taper a little bit You have no problem cutting and going to the next thing, right?

Actually, my personality prefers it.

Yeah, so like, I, I love starting new things because you've already mentioned it 4 times. Yes, yes.

So I love starting things, but I get bored.

Sure.

Um, and I, and I, and it's exciting for me to start new things.

And so, but even some— not with that, but with the father, you know, it's my opinion, if we're spending that much time in a big one, that's a pain point for you. Yeah. Like you're not stuck in a job, you're not stuck in that, that place. Like there's other jobs out there. They hired you, they like you enough to keep you at least. Yeah, someone else will hire you. And maybe there is that remote position, um, and something like I couldn't promote, like I love being at home. Yeah, but working at home for me is very difficult.

Yeah, and that's what I hear a lot. And we've had friends who because of COVID were engineers and they had to come home and work And they think it was almost too much for them to work at home, where that's kind of all I've known for most of my career. And so it was a small, like, 9 to 10 month stint of going from leaving everything I knew, of working from home, being in the midst of the chaos, if you want to call it that, with kids at home and wife at home and dogs and all those things, and then going to this office setting. And I'm like, this is this is not what I want.

Yeah.

And so what I think a lot of— I knew it wasn't what I wanted because I, because I knew what I did want. And I know that sounds kind of, kind of silly, um, but something that we, we asked ourselves, or what are we passionate about? What is, what does our heart break for? What, and what does success look like? Um, and we really asked ourselves.

And you had that real discussion at the moment, or is this in retrospect?

This conversation the first time we lived in California and we were transitioning out of the pharmaceutical world and trying to figure out what was next. We asked those questions in that order because if you ask yourself to define success before you know what you're passionate about and what your heart breaks for, then success will be skewed, um, to probably more of what the world wants you to think success is. Sure, could be. And so, but if you, if you have If you have locked in what you're passionate about, what your heart breaks for, what you truly believe is freedom, then regardless of other people's opinions.

Yes. So what does that look like for you if you don't care if your mom says that's stupid?

Right.

Yeah. If you don't care if your friends are like, you're an idiot for doing it.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And because I mean, we've, we, I even like to say too, we have gone up to the plate and we've struck out multiple times, but we've also hit it out. Park a couple of times as well. And but we have so many friends who kind of, one, are a little bit envious of our ability to and our willingness to make changes, um, because their, their highest values are most likely security. And, and rightly so, they want to take care of their families and, and, and these things. But so they, they get stuck in a job that they don't like, but they're too afraid to leave it, um, which drives me crazy because it's so much of your time.

Same thing with the travel thing, like, leave. Yeah, find another one. Like, I understand, you know, like, you don't quit today.

Yeah, but like, yeah, what's— yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, exactly right.

I would rather make less money if I'm making $70,000 a year, you know, working an hour away and not being happy, or working close by, just not being happy. I would rather make $50,000 a year, make adjustments to my lifestyle, and be happy in something that I spent so much time on.

But if you don't know that, like if that's not clear to you and you don't know truly what you value because you haven't been able to hash that out, then that's very hard to see. And so Kristen and I, my wife, we were able to hash out these are our values. This is what we view freedom is. This is what we envision for our life as a family. And then we were able to kind of filter situations and decisions through that. Something about working from home is that I have the option, the ability to be interrupted, to have lunch with my family, to take a break and wrestle with my kids for 5 minutes. Like, I love being interruptible and I love being there for my kids and feeling accessible. And that's something that I hated working in an office. I was just away. I just wasn't there. I didn't know what was happening in their lives on a daily basis. I was being caught up. I was gaining weight. Kind of long story short, they said, yes, you can, you can move back to Tennessee and work remote.

Was there any help staying in California and working?

No, no. Wasn't enough. We were far away from family. Cost of living was crazy.

Now, was there an adjustment in salary? No. Okay, so they paid you California wages for living in Tennessee?

Uh, yeah, contractor, because shareholders have to pay taxes in every state that there is an employee. And so I became a 1099 contractor. High value for us to be that close to family. Cost of living wasn't like— we had an 800-square-foot townhouse no yard, 2 beds, 1.5 bath, and we're paying $2,300 a month. Now our mortgage here for this, it's 3,500 square feet, is far less than that. And so it was just like, this is the long term. And as controversial as this sounds, our youngest daughter was vaccine injured. So she had a terrible reaction to— yeah, so she had a terrible reaction to the MMR. Mumps, measles, whatever injection vaccine would be involved. So she was totally fine, and she got that, and she immediately became allergic to gluten, processed sugars, dairy. She would get these terrible rashes under her arms that they would bleed.

How long did that take after the MMR vaccine?

Maybe 2 weeks.

All right, so we're not talking COVID vaccine? Correct. Any drama related?

Yeah, yeah. She had that allergic reaction. Um, and so for us and our family, we're not, we're not anti, we're just pro.

Oh, so it's permanent?

Well, so it was, but we were able to, we were able to reverse it through some kind of holistic and homeopathic medicine, which kind of sounds a little weird, and it was weird for me because I just come—

I'm assuming that's like small introductions of the allergic stuff. Yeah, until you build power.

Yeah, and it's like alternative medicine, nothing spooky or weird. I was really hesitant. I'm skeptical by heart, and I'm always questioning motives, and I'm like, this is real, or is this just like some boogoo stuff? But it worked. And so she's— but I mean, you would put— touch gluten to her lips, and an hour later she's projectile vomiting. And so she would be projectile vomiting 7 times a week, and it was really confusing because that's not a normal allergy reaction. That's right, that's right. Okay, so for us and our family we decided we're gonna— we're not gonna do any more vaccinations, like, for our kids. And so for some—

yeah, that's an experience that—

yeah, yeah. And if you've not experienced that, then, like, you probably will just go ahead and get the— like, for our oldest, she's had far more shots than our youngest because she didn't have any allergic reaction. But in California, there were no, like, medical or religious exemptions to put our kids in school. You had to be fully vaccinated to be in school.

We—

it just wasn't worth risk for us. And so we just knew long term, the only way to get an exemption is if the vaccine caused death or seizures. And then— so if my kid dies, then you're exempt. Yeah. Yeah. So we decided long term, this just doesn't make sense for us. And So here we are.

Um, Knoxville.

Yes. Yeah. And so we have— my wife was kind of the boss of the coffee stuff, and like I said, it transitioned. And so what we've learned over the years is that, one, I'm a dreamer, I'm a visionary, I love to start stuff. Really, uh, passionate about being a mom and being a stay-at-home mom. And she's really, really good about helping me see the details that I'm not seeing. And so we just kind of switch those roles over the years where I'm the the boss, if you will, and she's helping me to stay organized and structured. Um, and so what we do now, really, we have 3 businesses, um, one being social media, social media marketing, collaborating with brands and partnering with brands in order to promote their products.

That's— I'm assuming the Tattoo Ghost does that?

That's the Tattoo Ghost. Yeah, so I don't, I don't manage anyone's accounts anymore or anything like that. It's just strictly, um—

so what is the content on Tattoo husband.

Uh, so it's really focused around 3 things: family, um, faith, and, and coffee. Okay, that's what it is. And so if it doesn't fall within one of those 3, then I'm probably not gonna post about it. And so that helps me to figure out who I'm going to partner with, what brands I'm not going to partner with.

I remember my wife was looking at— she's like, he is way better at this than you. He's clearly more artistic.

I can help you. He's not a social charger.

I don't know how, um, there's a lot of things I could be doing, but living in an RV and touring and traveling and moving all the time, it's not conducive for a good working environment.

Well, I think, I think you have the ability to create a ton of really cool content because of your unique lifestyle.

Yeah.

Um, but it's also the last thing on your list.

Yep.

Um, and that's who I've always helped. I've helped people who are looking to grow, but it's the last thing on their list. They know it's important, But it's, I mean, it happens to me too. Like there will be times when I go 2, 3 weeks without posting because I'm doing so many other things and I'm just not thinking about my own account and things like that.

So it's one of those calendar programs like a Sprout or Hootsuite or something like that. There's others, um, would probably be smart. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm probably going to do that so I can do it in bigger chunks. And so that way there's a little bit more consistency.

Yeah. But, uh, so Kristen really helps me to strategize and plan out all the content we need to create. She'll help me create the content, um, tell me when to post it, all of those things. Because for me, I'm really good at landing the deal, and then after that, I just like— that's the exciting part for me. And so it's really easy for me to just kind of fall away and go, oh, I'll get to it when I get to it.

So she helps me, because that's almost the drudgery. Yeah, that's right.

So we do that. And then through the business development stuff with, with Conveen, I've actually started a business development strategy company, I guess you would call it. So I do—

so we've got social media, social media, that's one.

Now we've got business development strategy. So I help multiple clients with business development, with sales, generating more leads.

So this is like brick-and-mortar type businesses? Yeah.

Yeah. So one of them is going to be their client, but I know, um, another one being a video production agency. Um, and I help them get more leads, land more clients. And then another one being they do CPA and bookkeeping services for large Amazon sellers. Um, so I have social media, I have that. And then we started a small rental car company, uh, probably 6 months ago.

I don't say there's even excessive cars to people. Yeah.

My daughters are 6 and 4, and they each have a car. So we have a number of cars. Some of them are here, some of them are not. And we rent them out to tourists as they come through Knoxville, and they usually just take them to the mountains most of the time. And then—

And that's through one of those big, like, there's— I know there's rental car sites like an Airbnb for cars.

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's one, like, big one's called Turo. And so we just had an extra car. Um, and so now you're buying cars too, that's right. Yeah, so we started with one and we said, man, this is like— we have this car, let's just put it on there and see what happens. So we put it on there.

How long you guys know about it?

Since June.

Oh, new? Okay. Yeah. So you didn't do it and then get mauled by COVID?

Yeah, so we started in June and we had one car.

So that's, that's a leap of faith, I'm assuming. Well, I guess you could sell it.

Yeah.

Are you buying them on 5-year notes or you paying cash?

No, we are buying them on 5 to 6-year notes. We're using the bank's money. Yeah, so it wasn't really a big risk, one, because we already had the first car just to test it out. And so I would say unless you have a really flexible schedule, it's not really for you because it's one, it's not—

because people are picking up from here.

Sometimes.

So there has to be people here.

Yeah, most of the time we're taking the car somewhere. So unless you have a really flexible schedule, It's also not passive income either. It's a lot of work. We had someone crash into our house with one of our cars. So you get some crazies just like you would with Airbnb house or something like that. Oh, I'd be impressed.

Yeah. Yeah.

So we've had some crazies. Most of the time people are nice and good.

Some people when they rent, they bring their own insurance. Their own insurance.

Yes, through the app. And then we have like super insurance.

Yeah, so what's the priority on that? Because I know with insurance, they're always like, hey, tell us what's the other insurance company. So is it like an established priority to— it's the renter's insurance versus your insurance versus, I guess, here the homeowner's insurance when they crash with your house? Yeah, yeah.

So thankfully there was a minor fire damage to the car, not to the house. They hit brick with the bumper. Oh, it's like $200 for this whole thing. Oh, so Arturo, you're covered through Liberty Mutual So they had their own— yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, we have 4 cars we're doing it with now, but we haven't been doing this for even for a year yet, so we don't know what the slow season is. I'm imagining it's January, February because it's after the holidays, it's gray, it's rainy here. Yeah, so we'll find out. So I would rather have less and figure that out rather than having a ton of cars and figure that out.

So, right, yeah, because I guess, yeah, if you have slow 2 months and you have, you know, 10 $300 payments to make. Yeah, going up, super fun.

Yeah, but those 3 things have kept me very, very busy. Yeah, but that's how I thrive. Sure. Um, it's very entrepreneurial.

Yes, I'll keep you from getting bored.

Yeah, and so I've actually had a coach coach me recently and help me to kind of sync all of my calendars and all of my emails because I have like 26 tabs open at all times on my computer. And so I've really got it down to like 5 or 6 tabs, and then all my calendars sync to one calendar, and I'm realizing I have a lot more free time than I thought I did. But I was just so overwhelmed, I felt like I was— oh, I was— I was—

I didn't have room to breathe.

And so I'm not looking to really add anything, but it's— but it's nice to— but it's nice to see that I do have breathing space.

It's an interesting— like, one, I get completely— yeah, uh, super enjoyable. Yeah, it is chaotic. There's pressure, like, very real pressure, and it's risky.

Yeah.

And, and so I just think there's probably a little pit in your stomach sometimes of like what if, you know. And then every entrepreneur— I mean, because I heard someone describe entrepreneurship as you feel like you're on top of the world a thousand times a day, feel like the world's falling out, but yeah, yeah, it's good, it's good, it's good. And when it's just the world goes over motion all day long, I mean, it's funny, that's, that's what I, what I enjoy.

And what all of that allows me to do is prioritize my values and, and be home with my kids and with my—

because even when you're working, your presence still in the home, right?

And that's important.

That's important to me. I don't mind this, and that is important to me. I can't do it. Yeah, I just— I, I don't get— I don't work as productively, especially in the RV, just because, you know, you're in what, 3,500 square feet? Yeah, I am in 420.

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, I was talking to somebody, I was like, imagine the biggest RV you can. It's still really small. Yeah, there it is, you found it. And it's still really small.

So it's a wonderful home life. Yeah, it's just I cannot be as productive as I once was. I, you know, and I've played with different things of like, oh shoot, I'll just work from like 9 PM to 2 AM.

Yeah.

And I'm like, well, then I'll sleep until like 10 or 11. But you know, the family really, this is such a lax day, they really don't get until like 10 or 11, you know, everyone's up and everything. It's like slow breakfast, gather on playing with toys, read books, or Bible stuff, whatever it is. I'm slowly getting breakfast. Yeah, everyone's just getting homeschooled, kind of just doing their thing. But yeah, I just don't get work done well. Like, I'm an ADD, so like my curriculum is picking up the pace. If it really bothered me that much, I'd stop doing it. Yeah, and we'd go home, or we'd do one-month stays places, and I'd rent like Regis Bay somewhere.

Right, yeah, yeah.

But yeah, I'm okay with 100% growing slower. Yeah, and having walls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, separation is good for me. Yeah, having a routine is good for me.

Yeah, um, this is separate enough, like having an office with the clothes, especially with the perspective of like 420 now.

This is, you know, I can't imagine more Cuban as anything bigger.

I'm just super grateful. Super grateful to kind of be in this situation.

Yeah, fun life. Yeah, it seems like a fun life.

Yeah, I think, I think that's important to me because by the time I was 16, I didn't live with either of my parents. Really? Yeah, so they moved out. So kind of—

you stayed in the house?

I did, yeah. So kind of an interesting—

tell me how that works.

When I was 16 or 17, parents moved out. Parents moved out?

Yeah, it just doesn't make sense.

No, it doesn't. My My parents got divorced when I was 12, and—

This is getting stranger.

Yeah, well, they didn't live together, but yeah, yeah, got divorced when I was 12. They— my mom moved out and went to an apartment somewhere because she couldn't afford the house that we were living in. Both my parents kind of went kind of off the rails, kind of went a little crazy. So my mom quickly became an alcoholic and went kind of crazy, started dating kind of a combination of bikers and drug dealers and biker drug dealers. And so, um, it was— it wasn't like the, the most ideal, uh, atmosphere to grow up in.

Um, I see why you became a Christian later. Yeah, yeah, that probably appealed to you, that stability.

Yeah, well, I felt very second place to everyone in my life, and I felt very, um, unseen and neglected. And it's funny because my sister, who's 4 years older than me, has kind of a much different perspective on, on our upbringing. But I think, I mean, that's a 4 years ago.

So when they got divorced, you were 12?

Yeah, so she was 16. Okay. And she kind of went— she went— she— my, my sister kind of went— sure, kind of went crazy.

Yeah, the entire life of everybody was— yeah, yeah, thrown upside down. But 12, probably adolescence, you know, wonderful. Like one or two, it's You almost don't even know. Yeah, but yeah, those younger ages, especially in the middle, right?

Yeah, it's tough. So yeah, my mom went that route, and then my dad, uh, just started like kind of dating everything in sight. Um, and, and then he kind of bring them around the house? No, no, no, no. So, um, thankfully, thankfully not. But, um, well, I mean, he was constantly going on, on dates and things, and then even later on So while, while, I guess, was custody with your dad or with your mom, or split? Split. So they never went to court for it. They just, we were cordial enough to go, hey, we like have a week.

But you were very aware your dad was going out with dates?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And very aware of my mom and, and all of that. And I became very bitter, very angry. Um, and, and so I oftentimes say my, my rebellion, because what I saw my parents going through, I kind of committed to a life of sobriety. I was like, alcohol, drugs don't seem appealing.

They set the example for what you don't want to be.

Right, yeah. And my parents really were— I don't know if I would call them atheists, but they found religion laughable. And so I would say my rebellion ultimately was— yeah, they might be. But I would say my rebellion was diving into faith and exploring that, um, as well as sobriety. And so I kind of committed to like this straight edge lifestyle for a very, very long time.

So now, uh, how old are you now?

31.

Okay, so have you ever felt the pull to give up on the straight edge and maybe try an in-between, or even just going all out and going on a binge one day?

Yeah, yeah. So that's interesting because on my 31st birthday, I was like, okay, for some reason I kind of feel safe enough and secure enough in who I am to try it. And so for my 31st birthday, I just had wine with dinner and I was like, oh, I really like this. And did you like the taste of it?

Do you like the effects of it?

I like the taste of it. I like the way that it went with like paired with food. And I had one, I had like one glass and one glass for me was like half of a glass. Sure. And so I wasn't buzzed or anything like that, but I was like, oh, this is actually really nice. It's really great.

It's just any different profiles, right?

Yeah.

So since then, um, wine's tricky because with different foods it almost changes the way you taste the wine.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's kind of like wine tastings are kind of fun when they're paid for. Not like the cheap touristy ones. Yeah, it really changes the wine. I like it.

So we, so we, uh, ended up— I ended up trying it and I liked it, and I said, okay, well, how do I enjoy this? And we had We had conversations because my wife, she was a— kind of back in the day. And so she kind of committed to a life of sobriety as well. And so we're like, well, like, are we drinkers now? Like, what does this mean? Like, I don't— how do we— like, my identity was so wrapped up in being like alcohol-free Johnny that I really felt like I lost a part of who I was. Um, because I had almost quote-unquote like betrayed who I, but who I was. And so we had like these conversations about that incredible awareness and ability to talk about that with your spouse.

Yeah, I mean, props to you. I wish more husbands and wives would get on that level. Yeah, um, dig a little deeper into their, their psyche almost.

Yeah, yeah, it was really helpful for us because from that we learned, no, like, we've seen it abused, but it doesn't doesn't have to be abused. And we need to make— like, this helps us make the decision whether or not we want to continue to explore this or to not. And there's not a right answer, it's just what's best for us. Um, and so we continue to explore it. And what I've learned is I've tried whiskey, I don't like it. Uh, white wine, it's fine. Like, I think I found what I liked, which is caps. Once or twice a month I'll have a glass of wine and it's nice. And I can enjoy it and do it in a way that is—

And does your wife participate as well?

Yeah, yeah, every once in a while she will as well. And it's like safe and it's healthy and it's—

There's a little bit of accountability to keep it from—

Yeah.

Becoming a slippery slope, maybe.

Totally. Yeah, yeah. And so it's, uh, it's been, it's been like a really, like a healthy journey.

Jump back to your parents— well, not your parents, one of your parents, I assume, left the house.

Yeah, so my mom, my mom left the house. I stayed in the house with my dad. Um, then my dad ended up moving. Um, we all moved with my dad to a new house. My mom was kind of jumping from apartment to apartment. Um, so I was in Orlando. Um, my mom was dating someone in Brooksville, um, which is like not a huge talent pool in Brooksville.

No, no, no, it was not. Um, sorry everyone from Brooksville, but you know it's true.

She was like always gone, you know, like she was, she was there maybe at the apartment like once or twice a month. I mean, sorry, a week. And my dad was seriously dating someone in Kissimmee, which is like 25-35 minutes away.

So they both were really living somewhere else but kept their—

right, yeah, yeah. And well, and so then my dad said, hey, listen, I'm getting married, I'm gonna move into Yvonne's house, which is my stepmom, and they're still together and all that, so Uh, so he moved to kind of near Disney and said you would keep the house or you need to go live with your mom. And he said, how about we have your mom come move into this house so that you don't have to move?

But meanwhile, your mom's really spending most of her time in Brooksville, right?

Yeah, yeah. And then she, um, and the rent was like $400 a month or something. It was nothing. And she couldn't afford it. She was just spending— she didn't make very much money. She was spending money on know the wrong things. She was never there. And so this, this is probably when I was like 14 or 15, I would say. For the next couple of years, like, my mom lived in that house, my dad lived 35-40 minutes away, but my mom was never there. So just kind of me and my sister, just kind of—

okay. And your sister's over 18 at the same time? She's 20s?

Yeah, yeah. And she's in college.

Who's paying the rent?

My dad.

Okay, so I was waiting for the twist of you just said that, I'll pay for it, you got a job.

Yeah, I wasn't— I was— my entrepreneurial journey didn't start until I was probably 25 or 26 and failed as well, but, um, which I kind of talked about.

But that's why, yeah, failure is like the thing you need to do. Yeah, people look down on failure. You get mocked for as a judge, and everyone wants to hide their failures. I just— yeah, I think only genuine entrepreneurs, uh, where it's like ingrained, it's not I want to be, I wish I could do this, like it's your soul.

Yeah.

Um, those seem to be the only people that really genuinely feel that way about failure, of like, it's kind of fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I'm like, so I like being able to tell stories of failure because it led me to now.

Yeah, exactly right.

Probably would suck more if it didn't.

Well, I think that's why people get caught up in like this employee mindset.

And because it's safe.

Because it's safe, because it brings security. You know where your paycheck's coming every 2 weeks. It's going to be deposited in your account.

It was also a hard-grained mindset. From the previous generations. Work for the company, get your paycheck, get your pension, get your retirement, and that's your life.

Yeah, well, and I was actually listening to a podcast recently and they said it used to be that high school would prepare you for your, uh, for your job, for your trade, whatever it was. And viable options were, hey, maybe you're not cut out for college, so why don't we check out these trades? Military. And, but what it's turned into is high school is really just training for college. And then, yeah, and so we've like, we've coached and mentored a lot of high school students and, and college students, and we, we've told them, um, like, if you, um, like, you, you need to go to college if you are looking to be an employee. Like, that's because people just need to see that on your resume. Like, that's— if you are content with being an employee, then you must go in that direction.

Yeah, that's something the education system, they mold and modify, uh, according to what society needs. Yeah, society, uh, needs workers like that. Yeah, and so they create an environment to where sit down, follow rules, listen to what I say, and be, you know, kind of robotic and not thought-provoking. Yeah, that's what's great. That's one of the big reasons I like homeschool is—

yeah, it's—

it encourages an environment of thinking outside the box, of questioning everything, of asking why and being able to go dig for that answer. Whereas in school, when you ask why, you kind of got in trouble for it.

Yeah, yeah, it took up too much time.

Yeah, this is the book, this is the paragraph I have to read to you. And that's really what we've got her. Yeah, yeah.

And that's— and so that's— I mean, that's one of the big reasons why we homeschool. But like, Kristen, my wife's little brother, he's 20 now. Instead of going to college, he's been learning how to day trade. And so he's been doing that for, for 2 years now, and he's learning and he's becoming profitable. Um, and so, but you don't need college to do that.

And so in fact, right now the shift to make some seriously good money is blue-collar trades, right? Because for so long— now it's gonna shift again, but because so many people have been told it's not— don't work in the heat, don't work with your hands, it's terrible. Yeah, like work in the AC, work with your brain, work smarter, not harder. That working harder is— I mean, if you're an electrician in construction, name your price, whatever you want.

We've had a plumber come in, we've paid a ton of money.

Diesel packs in whatever you want, you'll get good at it. And it's going to swell, you know, once people figure that out, and they're starting to, and that becomes really popular again, old schools will pop up and, you know, hey, come diesel it like they do, you know, wild things like that. Then that's going to become less popular. It's just demand or supply and demand.

Yes.

Yeah, you got a lot of them, price goes down. You got very few, price goes up. Right now there's not a lot of people willing to work with their hands.

And so to kind of go back to living by myself— no, that's totally fine. At around 17 years old, my mom was never there. My dad was like, hey Johnny, like, just help me out here, trying to figure something out. Your mom is not keeping up with rent. And being 17-year-old Johnny, I said, kick her out, get her out of here, she's never here anyway. It was a much longer conversation than that, but he was like, what, are you sure? And I said yes. And so she asked to move out, and so she moved out of my dad's house.

She really wasn't—

she wasn't even there anyway. So when she did move out, it wasn't like this big shock of like, "Where are my parents?" It was like, I've been doing this for years. And so, um, so you've been doing your own laundry, cooking my own food, getting myself up for school, all these things. I mean, my grades though, my senior year totally plummeted. Um, junior year, senior year, you're working also. Yeah, TCBY, Country's Best Yogurt. Yeah, so that was— I mean, it wasn't bringing in the big bucks.

$8.50 an hour?

Probably. That's probably generous. Yeah, I don't know. It was nothing. But it was kind of like, my dad was like, here's a card, just kind of— this is for your needs. And so for most people, that sounds nice, but for me, as a personal relationship, with my dad. Everything that I've kind of— what I've been talking about and what I value and why I love being at home and being interruptible and being here is because, because of all of that. No, it does not. And so that just shows me where my values are. I don't want my kids to ever feel like I'm not accessible.

So, and now it appears to be, which I already know you're gonna do because you're involved. Yeah. Is not having— just like we're talking about supply and demand— not having the same thing happen again next generation by talking, sharing these stories with your kids and let them know the whys behind where you are, the way you are. So they aren't sitting there saying, man, my dad was there all the time, I'm such a pain. Well, I'm gonna give my kids so much love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perspective, totally. Is it, you know, obviously it's gonna be an age-appropriate release of that information. Yeah, but I think explaining the whys and giving your perspective is going to, uh, give your kids such an advantage of the world. Yeah, if you can combine looking at a lot of generations and generations of perspective and influence. Yeah, thoughts. Yeah, it's— you start off on such a higher pedestal in life.

Yeah, I am, and I'm just— I think that all of that perspective— there's a book, um, called A Tale of Three Kings, and it's about, uh, King David, King Saul, and then Absalom. Uh, which is one of their sons. Um, but part of the book basically says, um, I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, with like story of those, of those men or not, but basically Saul was crazy. Um, and then King David was hunted like a dog. Um, but what the book says, God used Saul to kill the inner Saul in David. Um, so just kind of helping, like, he used the craziness of all to kind of root that out of the next year. I'm hoping that that's what you learn from the past. That's exactly right.

Start from scratch, figure out what life is for them, for what their kids are going to be. It's a real shame.

Yeah, I think that's kind of what it all comes down to. It comes down to recognizing where my— where I lacked, um, growing up. And my dad's and our relationship has been reconciled. It kind of came to this point of, I don't think he's going to change, so I need to alter my expectations. You take a different approach to how I'm pursuing a relationship with my dad.

Yeah, um, I, I don't think it's not fair to expect anyone to change for you. It's just, it's, uh, it's unrealistic, and it's a little bit, say, narcissistic. Yeah, to expect people to change who they are, right, for your preference.

Yeah, I think it just helped me. Like, even my mom, she didn't change. Like, she was still off the rails, but I knew— and I think a lot of my faith had to do with how I began to pursue relationships differently, recognizing they're not going to change, but I can. I can— if I want that relationship, then I need to set my expectations a little differently.

Yes. So I'm not— I'm trying to think this through because I'm trying to think of good ways to phrase this because you don't want to in a sense get rolled over. And that's why I'm just trying to think of a way if someone's listening, because it's good advice, but at the same time it can be overdone, just like everything. There's kind of like a— it's a massive gray area. So you don't want to set yourself up to get hurt, right? I guess it's creating boundaries, uh, because you're saying not change yourself, change yourself a little bit, uh, or change your expectations. I think just like, as you guys wonder how that really looks, I think you can— for me, I set hard boundaries. I'm like, because that's just my mind. That was like the way— here's the fence. Yeah, cross it, you're dead. And that's probably not healthy. That's probably wrong.

Forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean they have— having 100% access to your life anymore.

So the take I have on forgiveness, because that was always a very difficult subject for me, at least for me. I've reached— because I could say I've forgiven you, but then I'm still harnessing like resentment and kind of hope you get eaten by a wood chipper. Yeah, it's when you don't feel ill will towards that person anymore. You don't want them to pay the consequences for what they did to you, right? You don't feel the need for that justice to be served. Yeah, um, but at the same time, not letting— being strong enough to, I guess, create those boundaries to where you don't allow it to happen again.

Yeah, exactly right.

It doesn't necessarily be trust. Yeah, I fully trust. Right. Yeah, yeah.

Or just recognize— I mean, that would be— I don't know, can you call it Can you call that stupidity? It's just like if someone hurt you in a way and then you say, okay, I forgive you, I'm gonna just give you full access.

Sure.

And then they like to hurt me again. Not that you should just become like this shell or this armored up person, but just recognizing, okay, I recognize my boundaries now and I recognize that I can love you, but I can also withhold certain parts of my life from you. That's right. Or like, for my emotional and physical health.

You can't be trusted in that aspect.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

And so if I tell you a secret and you tell that secret to everybody, then I just know, okay, I need to forgive you. Because they say bitterness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Like, it's just— yeah.

And so that's like those expressions I've always had trouble with when I was in it, to like fully comprehend, you know, cut off your neck, spit in your face, that kind of stuff. It's something I always struggle with, just because, I mean, those people are living rent-free in your head.

That's right.

And it's, it's so consuming, it's hard to give those expressions much weight when you're just like, yeah, but burgers.

Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

I just think that that's something Kathleen helps because it's someone to kind of walk you through that stuff.

Like, I call it gray spaghetti. So when it's in your head, um, because it's like just a bunch of noodles all touching, it's not black or white, it's just all in your head. Um, but not— but so I'll tell people, talk about it and then talk about it some more. And then when you're tired of talking about it, talk about some more. Because when you begin to talk about the gray spaghetti, all the things in your head that are frustrating you, that are hurting you, um, that are living in your head rent-free, it begins to be actually less complicated usually than it Yeah, that it actually is, um, because the drama scene that unfolds in your head—

well, I was talking to one guy, yeah, what he was mad about, you just like, he would have these imaginary arguments in his head for hours. Yeah, not every day, but it was just like, you just kind of realized when he's like, like, this whole thing just went down with like tangents for me in these conversations. That whole argument just went down this path that was ridiculous of like how I was gonna, you know, foster up or whatever. Um, uh, that guy didn't count. I thought it was a really good drug. Just occupied her out. He wasn't getting as much work done. He wasn't as attentive with his family. He wasn't able to do things that made him happy because he was having imaginary fights in his head. Yeah, but the other person doesn't even get to say— your brain's just making them say what you want them to. Yeah, because your next comeback's gonna be so great.

So good. Yeah, the more you talk about it, the less The less control it has over your mind, I feel like, because it begins to make more sense and you go, oh, this actually isn't as overwhelming as I once thought it was.

That's why I think counseling probably plays a big role.

Yes.

Because you have to voice those things and then you have a person looking at it from an outside perspective saying, does that really make sense?

Which is so helpful. Yeah.

So, so helpful. Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm a big fan of counseling. And that's— I think that's why I've kind of— I've loved Convene because it really provides that outside perspective for a lot of people. I love the coaching aspect, which is a counseling, right?

Because you can voice things, other people's opinions are heard. Yeah.

So I think I just see the value in that, talking things out. It holds weight in every part of my life. And I think that's why Kristen and I can talk about, well, should we drink? Is this who we are? Should we not? But it could be exhausting for the person who isn't wired that way to, to really over-communicate.

And so, um, so I make new decisions all the time. It drives my wife crazy. Yeah, she's like, but this is the thought process you were on last week. I'm like, yeah, but things have changed.

That was last week.

So I've heard you are exhausting more times in my life than I care to admit.

Well, in Kristin's— she's learned that just because I have an idea Yeah, exactly right. So for a long time she was like, oh no, how am I going to help him make this decision? Like, how am I going to— how we're going to do this? I don't know. And so then she'd realize, okay, just let him talk, and then if something sticks, it'll happen. But for the most part, you don't have to—

I've got like 10,000 ideas every year. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I voice them, then I realize how stupid they are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes you still tell me that's stupid. Which is good, which is helpful for me. But I am just— I've just learned— she's learned that my ideas are simply ideas until they— until I really latch on to something. And then she can tell when it's— when it's for real or when it's not. So, yeah, she's like, and that's how this— this card thing came about. I had the idea, she was like, okay, and then we began to get more serious about it. She's She said, "Are you sure?" I said, "I'm going to do it." She goes, "Okay, I trust you." And so we did. And it worked. It was great. And then, but we've also made a mistake. We bought a car and then after we bought it, found out it was not allowed to rent it out just because it had a manufacturer buyback. And according to those websites, like rental car websites, they kind of view it as the same as a salvage title, if you will. Carfax and VIN number and all that kind of stuff. So you have to put all that information in. Okay.

Or so it's a tour registers your vehicle as a rented vehicle.

Yeah, you just— you kind of like on the Airbnb how you put your house in. We bought this really expensive car and now you drive it.

Your other car is now the rental.

Yeah, well, yes.

So my wife, we, we decided because, look, you know, you don't have much of a choice.

All of her cars have turned into rental cars. It's just kind of on accident. So we Got her a van. Yeah, and so we got her a van and we're like, let's just put it, let's put it out there, see what happens. So put it on there, it starts renting immediately. Like, okay, well, we'll get you a car that's not a van because you don't like the mom van life. So we got an Atlas. And so she was driving down, we're like, let's just put it on there for a little bit, see what happens. Put it on there, just booked instantly. And then we're like, okay, well, I guess you need a car now. And so we ended up getting this third car and it's much bigger. It's a and it has 3 rows. Found out, like, we'll just run it, run it a little bit and cover the payment, and then you'll— uh, then we found out we couldn't rent it. Well, shoot, this is a much bigger payment than we wanted. Sure. And so we ended up trying to sell it but couldn't, um, because most people— we didn't know what the manufacturer buyback was and we couldn't figure it out. We finally figured it out, but because of that, people didn't want to buy it. Um, found out it's just cracked windshield seals. That's all it was. And I felt really guilty. I was apologizing over and over again and and, and, uh, screwed up. Yeah, exactly. That's just kind of what we're like, oh, we just screwed up, and, and now we learned it.

So maybe we've done shy to buy more parts, uh, but that's been my, literally my entire philosophy in my life of, okay, so if we screw up, let's go through. So all of our companies just collapse. Yeah, there's utter collapse. We get just around, and that would probably be a reputation collapse. Uh, but man, you know, as a kid I mow lawns, you know, in Florida. I was— buy $150 Walmart, like, now I'm on the lawns every day, you know. Like, that's the worst case scenario. We're gonna be okay. Yeah, yeah, failure is okay. Screwing up, you know. So that made taking risks a lot easier. Just, you know, you don't want the whole thing to collapse because that would be disappointing. Um, but life does that. Like, the next day still shows up. Totally. Um, yeah, kind of like I really don't like suicide. Uh, who does?

Yeah.

Oh wow. It's just one of the things a lot of people are very sympathetic to it, and I am to an extent because, you know, if you're talking to somebody who's on the line, a lot of men are men who lead, I think, statistically in suicide, especially fathers.

Um, yeah, my, my pastor, he ended up killing himself.

I don't mind being a little bit more aggressive in here of saying that's stupid. Like, don't do that for the people. It's hard to like honor, you know, the families that are left behind. So sorry, but at the same time, what's up with the next generation? People I walked over, like, this is stupid, don't do it. Yeah, like, tomorrow, however you're feeling today, tomorrow's a new day. I would have to like do research on what the stats are, but you know, if you're about to file bankruptcy or you did file bankruptcy or just an embarrassment as a failure, or you know, you hadn't stared and are about to be out, that kind of pressure can look like You're gonna— in 2 weeks everyone's gonna be talking about something. Yeah, I mean, if you really pay attention to the news cycle, like a big thing, whatever Trump did that was stupid, or whatever Biden did that was stupid, a week or two, no matter how horrible and terrible—

this Rittenhouse, right? Like, that's all— like, no one's talking about it anymore. Like, and that was a big deal.

Yeah, that was probably a lot of pressure on that kid. Totally. Some people in that equal amount of pressure might take that option out, right? Now you still probably have to live with them a little bit. 5 years from now barely. They're gonna fight research. Life does go on. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, it's not always a train.

Well, yeah, I think you need people to, to walk with you through that, because most— when you're at that point, I don't think it's as easy to see the light at the end.

When you're in it, I think it's probably very difficult. Yeah, that's why you're drowning, right? That's why I'm like, I want that kind of experience in my kids' life as much as I can, because it's not like I've never been borderline. Maybe even actually depressed. Yeah. And sad. It's not like I've never had a thought of what if. Yeah. Uh, it's just like, it's so ingrained on me that no, that's like this.

Yeah.

So it's like, it's like pre-wired. As bad as it gets, the next day comes. Yeah. Like, as many butterflies as you're carrying, the next day comes, they're not as bad anymore. Or maybe they are, but the next day after that.

And some of the best business advice I have gotten was from some of my friends who are in their 40s. I'm 31. And I said, what advice would you give yourself if you were 30 or 10 years ago or when you were starting the business? And they said that you have so much time to completely fail and start over multiple, multiple times. Like, it's never— and so that was encouraging to me because it's just like— and his encouragement was, take those big risks because it could lead to 100% failure, um, but you have so much time in your life, um, between now and then, whatever then is, to restart.

It's crazy to think like of the way I thought about 30-year-olds in high school and how ancient they were. Yeah, like now being 30 made me like, I'm young. I ain't kidding people. And I talked to other people that are like, you still feel that way at 40, 50, 60, 70, 80. Like, there's 80-year-olds, long as they're healthy, yeah, that are still like, yeah, I want to make this investment for the next 20 to 30 years.

And so both my parents had cancer. My dad had like, uh, no, so he had like colon cancer and he got it— he— and, you know, my mom had bladder cancer. Um, the difference between my mom and my dad is my dad goes to the doctor.

My mom never went to the doctor.

Yes, he caught it early. They got it taken care of. No, no sign for me. Uh, he was probably 57 or 58. He's 64, 65 now.

So you already going in to get checked?

No, but I'm going to. So my goal is when between 32 and 35, I want to start doing all of the old man procedures. And getting all the checks and prods. So check it.

I wouldn't have thought myself as homophobic, but thought of a prostate exam— yeah, it's just one I don't— like, I might have to be knocked out for it.

Yeah, I'm sure that's an option.

Yeah, of course. Those are— anesthesia is really not as effective on redheads. And I've had other redheads say that they want to, like, surgery for ADCs or whatever, uh, and then they went white, like, within weeks.

That's funny that you say that because I have heard, one, that redheads are one of the only, one of the last demographics, populations to be amazing. Yeah, be amazing. Yeah. I'm looking like racist against— I don't know what the word is. Oh yeah, or prejudice.

I have said this my entire life of like, everyone of you minorities that are complaining about racism, sexism, whatever, Yeah, all races, all ethnic, all minorities make fun of wrestling. Yes, absolutely. We have the truly best. To be honest, I had a— in my junior high school or sophomore year, uh, we did Battle on the Border. So Florida versus Georgia, uh, and I was like, yeah, I was a really good wrestler, uh, and so like I was the captain of the team and like one of the leaders in the state. This guy was too. Yeah, he was a senior, I think I was a sophomore or junior, and everyone was waiting to see these two redheads clash. And like, I cannot say I was so pissed. Like, I did not touch him. I was disgusted. And the fact that we were going to be like a circus act, it's like—

but I'm also Irish too, then, right? And I actually have a higher pain tolerance.

Yeah, more sensitivity to light in our eyes, uh, and hence use those more because I gotta go to the dentist. Yeah. We just metabolize it so quick. I wish my metabolism worked that way. Yeah, like, they'll just get so much freaking— what's that, Novocaine or whatever? Yeah, like, and I'll still feel stuff. I'm like, just, just do the work. Like, yeah, I'll deal with it. I'm tired of it. Like, the dentist is like jamming the needle so far in to get more stuff in there that it's like squirting the back of my throat.

I'm like, are you an MMA fan? Uh, because of your wrestling background though.

Well, like my, my, um, I went to WWE and wrestled, so like my coach is a, um, he's now a coach. Oh cool. Greg Jones, he was a 3-time national champ at WVU. Then my freshman year was the year after he graduated, he became the assistant coach. And then when they had a coaching turnover years later, he went out and he's actually out of Florida, uh, and does some of that. I'd say he's posting all the time. He's at all the big MMA fights. Yeah, he's the wrestling coach.

It's like Sanford MMA. Oh, okay.

Yeah, but he's wrestling coach there.

Yeah, I'm a big— I've never been in a fight. I would lose a couple.

Yeah, yeah, that's why it's the greatest highlight.

Yes. Well, that's how you got to live in an RV, so yeah, down by the river.

Yeah, so I like stuff, but I don't, I don't need stuff. I do appreciate it.

Yeah, I'm, uh, recovering, uh, from being materialistic, so yeah, I, I love things.

So my dad really liked watches, jewelry, and stuff, and so I've just never— I think because of that relationship, I've always just been like, I never want to watch. Yeah, I wear this one wedding band, it's very simple. Yeah, yeah, I don't want necklaces, I don't want stud earrings, you know, except in piercing. Yeah, you like my shoes? Like, a lot of stuff. I'm just like, that was for Carter.

Yeah, that's what you get to, uh, all of that. I've heard someone talk about— what do they say— basically that the entrepreneurial journey, or like the business owning journey, it's like, like one of the benefits is you get to choose whether you want to wear suits to work or not, or if you want to wear sandals.

The freedom there is genuinely enjoyable, I think. And I used to be of the mindset that like everyone should like go, move on, whatever, you know, start a restaurant, whatever it is, or food truck. I don't think that way anymore. I think it's a mindset that few people can handle. I think to put that burden on a lot of people would be a recipe for disaster. Hey, you have to be able to do everything. You have to handle customers, you have to accept all blame and take it all on your shoulders and take the initiative.

That's a capacity.

Yeah, that would be— yeah, there's one time a few years before we sold that, like, crap hit the fan. We said the guy that was managing our business was stealing from us. And then when I figured it out, I was still willing to keep on just because like I needed the person. I was willing to keep him on, but like since he knew I knew, never saw him again.

Wow.

Um, and he had all my keys, like everything. I was like, I didn't see him one more time. I had to find him at his house. Then there was a whole bunch of excuses about, you know, marriage falling apart and everything. Like, doesn't matter, give me my stuff. The hardest I've ever worked in my life. So I kind of thought about seasonalities of life. Like, I'm a workaholic. I will spend a lot of time at work. I have to make an active decision to spend time with my family. I was probably why I've originally missed so much of traveling for years with my family. Nothing but the scene 24/7 because I like that stage. Like, it just required everything from me to the point I was probably sleeping 2 hours. I would get home like 2 AM, sleep for a couple hours, wake up before, go back to work because you had to. Like, it was all wrong. Our entire database had to be reworked, the entire structure of our company. So at that point, we just launched into micro markets, basically built a convenience store. We would take out vending machines out of like a corporate, um, hub. Yeah, we take all the vending machines out, we would build a convenience store and a self-checkout. And so, but like, the entire inventory management system, the entire— all the CCOs, the structure of everything, um, was all wrong. Like, he had just half-assed everything and was just winging it.

Like, when I got into it, I literally had to redo everything.

That was backend infrastructure, structuring everything, physically getting on it, because we had no— you know, in that business, you know where your inventory is. No clue where inventory was. I had to go to every single state, count every single candy bar, and we had hundreds of items. Inventorying the entire store. While everyone's like— some people are running out of things because we just didn't know. Yeah. Um, and you know when stock people, they tell them when they're about to run out. And we didn't know. Like, yeah, this is— you have 30 cheeseburgers, right? Um, it was nuts. And it was just all on me. Um, and so we were a 2-truck company with him. And yeah, so wow, that was like the craziest I've ever worked. And that was a couple weeks straight. 2-hour sleep nights, if that. And even then I was like in my room like, talking to the corner, just rocking back and forth, how are you doing?

Well, I mean, I found myself there probably a couple of months ago. I realized I was working so, so much, and because I had all these calendars, all these schedules, all these emails, all these tabs open, and I just felt so overwhelmed. And so I would— so it was a regular, a regular thing for me to take my girls out on dates. My daughter's out of dates. I wasn't doing that. And so my daughters would be like, Dad, can we go on a date? I'm like, yeah, let me just figure out when. And they always ask me, kind of pester me, if you will. And then I realized— this is a terrible analogy. Have you ever done an analogy parallel? Have you seen Trainspotter? No. Anyway, don't watch it. It's about heroin addicts. They kept asking me, kept asking me, kept asking me. And then my answer was just kind of putting it off, putting it off, putting it off. And then I realized there was silence and they weren't— and there'd been months of them not asking me. And I was like, oh man, now they don't have this expectation of me taking them out on dates. Like, they just know it's going to be a no. And that's kind of what I knew. Even though I'm working from home, even though I'm accessible, I really made myself inaccessible. Something needed to change. Something needed to give. I had to restructure some things, get on my calendar, sit down, get my get my emails all in one place, all that, putting it on my calendar to take my daughters out on a date. So we've started doing your wife too.

Yes, totally.

Yeah. And so I've learned the importance of that. I've just realized though I'm home, I'm still inaccessible, and that doesn't line up with my goals, my values. And so I had to—

there's ebb and flow to life. Sometimes you have to be all in on the business, sometimes you can be more with your family. Now that's going to be more of the small business owner, entrepreneurial type person. Um, you know, obviously if you have a more structured life, you can create that structure. But, um, for the business owner, you know, I sit there and say like that, but then having like your type of recognition where you can sit back and be like, oh man, I have left this neglected for too long, that needs to become the new priority. These things I've been focusing on and take a sidetrack for a little bit and move on.

I think that's why it's important to know and I've said this a thousand times, but something that's been so incredibly valuable to me is to know what your values are and to know what freedom looks like, know what success looks like. Because if you don't, then life just kind of—

Have you written that down or is that something that you and your wife just talk about?

No, we've written it down. We've shared it with other people as well. And so it's 3 sets of questions in a specific order. And those questions are And for us, it had to do with ministry and what ministry looked like. And so it was like, what does ministry look like? So like, what does the world see ministry as? What does the Bible say ministry is? And then how do we see ministry? And so we would ask ourselves those questions, one of those, one of those three questions each week individually. We journal about it, and then we would come together at the end of the week and to talk about it, and that would help us get on the same page. And then after 3 weeks of talking about ministry, then we would go to, okay, well, what is, what does our heart break for? What are we passionate about? And where do those 2 things combine? Talk about, journal about those things individually for each, each question for a week and then come back together. And then after that, so we knew what we were passionate about, what our heartbreaks were, we knew what ministry looked like for us, we knew what was true about what the what the Bible said about ministry and what, um, and what was not true. Um, there's really— there's, there's very little in the Bible in regards to defining what ministry actually is. So it's pretty, pretty interesting. I was really surprised to find there's only like 3 verses or something like that that have the word ministry.

Yeah, I assume that would be all of Paul's stuff.

Yeah, so it's, it's, uh, it's not, uh, well, I don't know, I can't remember where it is now, but I just remember it not being as prevalent in the Bible as as I thought it was. One's in Romans 11. I read it this morning. But what I've learned is that— oh, and then the third set of questions: what is success? What does the world view success as? Sorry, this is how my brain works too. So, uh, what is success? What does the world view success as? How do I view success?

Um, yeah, yeah.

And so when you ask about writing it down, we do write them down. It's always been a focal point for us and an anchor to say, okay, let's go back to these values these passions in this definition.

So from a guy that's an entrepreneurial father or husband, what's one, maybe one strong remark we want to make towards a business owner dad?

I would say it's very important to have a support system.

What would a support system look like?

I think, so for me, it's my wife. Like, she trusts me, she believes in me, um, she's very vocal about that.

Well, you guys have deep conversations.

We have very deep conversations.

It's not a shallow level communication. It's will get into the awkward, into the uncomfortable.

Yes. Yeah. Um, and so I think, um, clear communication so everyone's on the same page is, is really, really important. That would be the biggest piece of advice. And then I think balancing entrepreneurial lifestyle when you're balancing being a family man, you need to figure out what your values are so that you know what you need to sacrifice. Sure.

For busy dads that are really struggling with that, and I would assume if we're having this conversation, Dad wants to spend time with their family.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

You have that communication with your wife that you talk about. I think it's equally as important to have that conversation with young kids of like, hey, but when you need Dad, just come tell me. Like, sometimes you just come up and say, hey Dad, can we go do something together? Um, because sometimes I just get so focused on something I forget, and it's not that I forgot, you know, I'm just so focused on something I need you to interrupt me every once in a while. I was like, Dad, it's been so long since we've done anything, can we go do something?

Right, right.

And a wife is very good at saying, "It's been a long time since you guys done with the kids. We're out of the state, we're out of balance right now. Like, you need a little more focus on here." And if you're doing a big product launch or something like that, or like deep in the coding, a new venture, and then, you know, maybe it's a few more weeks of doing that coding, of doing that, yeah, deep into the business, but then realize eventually you have to step back and make time for your family. You can't just be years and years and years and years of all in on the business, because then your family's going to raise you up. Having that support structure where people can voice up, people can step up, and you will listen to them and not kick them and not yell at them and say, but I'm doing this damn thing for you. That's an important thing.

Yeah, I think communication is, is so important.

And, um, of course that's hard now if you're divorced, Dad. Yeah, absolutely, because you don't have that wife that's all supportive of you. She's going to be critical of you if you're not there, or she's going to let it slide because she gets more time with kids, you're less influential, and she's gonna let that go because it's nicer for her. Uh, so yeah, I would just think that'd be a lot of self-awareness of recognizing that you're not being— which is hard to do sometimes. Yeah, I guess you're listening to a podcast like this, so you just sit there.

I can't imagine. Um, and I just feel so deeply for, for the divorced dads and the divorced moms, and even, even hearing like thinking about—

well, you grew up in it, right? Right. So it is— it's not like it's end of the world thing.

It's just, it's so much less—

this lifestyle that we both are enjoying.

Yeah, so nice.

It's heartbreaking for us to imagine half the possible time with our kids.

Totally. Yeah. Or getting a week of every other weekend and that's it. Like, knowing that I've been told that I only have X amount of time with my kids. Totally.

Yes, it's so totally different. And say, no, we grew up in it, right?

But yeah, but having the first— having a perspective of a child rather than a father is, is like, oh, my heart breaks in this totally different way. I don't know if I can really speak to— well, I think from a, from a, from a son that comes from divorced parents, and that's— this is so cliché, but kids spell love T-I-M-E. Oh yeah. And you know, and so that's a mom drama. Totally.

Yeah. Quantity time. Like, time, be there. Yeah, yeah, it's a big one.

Yeah, communication is, I think, the key for my family, um, in order to avoid ongoing arguments, expectations. I mean, I've heard you don't, you don't know what your expectations are until they're not met.

And so, so you put it out there even though it may be a vulnerable subject. Yeah, or whatever, uncomfortable, whatever. But you're not, yeah, like you say, you're not developing expectations in your head, you're not You're not arguing for your spouse. They can actually argue for themselves.

Yeah.

And how they're feeling. Yeah, I agree with you.

And then I would— maybe one of the last things that was one of the best things for our, for our marriage at the beginning— this can be for divorced families as well— but oftentimes when we're, when we're dealing with the situation, we put the situation in the center of the table, and then we oftentimes sit across the table from each other and argue about or about the situation, whatever it is. You and I, we're not the issue. The issue is the issue. And so the idea should be we come and sit on the same side of the table and then approach the issue so that we are a united front, um, and then we can attack the issue. How do we solve this problem? Yeah, rather than how do we fight each other?

Yeah.

We are, we're parents. I'm a dad, you're a mom, whatever, um, and we want to figure out this situation together. And I think you can do that as a divorced couple. I think you can do it for a divorced family.

And in that communication sequence, I will sit there and say it's not, um, that we sit down on the same side of the table and it's going to be solved right then and there. Sometimes it's just everyone voicing their thing, not being in agreement, just being able to hear for a little bit. Yeah, but it's been out there, come back to it.

Yes. And actually, so on the World Race, that mission trip we went to, they said something called feedback. And so We would sit down every night and basically give each other feedback. But whatever the feedback was, you weren't allowed to respond to it beyond saying thank you for 24 hours. Now, I don't know if that's super healthy, but it forced you to marinate in the feedback. And then 24 hours later, you were able to come back and say, hey, there might be something good.

C12 did a similar thing, like a business owner could present a problem, right? And then you'll go around the room. And, um, I like their structure because they can only ask a question that's better clarity.

Kaveen does that too.

Yeah. And that— so it's a really smart way for them. And then that person's not like answering right away and combating. Like, everyone's kind of like more intellectual approach to it. I'm just like, all right, let's really assess what's going on here.

That's what Kaveen does. It's called the opportunity challenge, where someone presents a challenge, opportunity within their business, personal life, Everyone goes around, asks questions. Then from there, after that, we dive into the word of God, see what scripture says, see if any verses come to mind. And then after all of that, when everyone's kind of chomping at the bit to finally say something, then we offer solutions and templates.

This is dangerous for me because I just want to be like—

Yeah, I know. But you have 16 people around the table who are all business owners who are all about fixing problems all the time. Have them shut up for 15 minutes, it's hard.

That's a good tip for your marriage.

Yeah, yeah, that's clarifying questions. All of that being said, clear communications, clear expectations is a key to help within your marriage, within your relationship with your kids.

100% Dad podcast interviews with dads with the Tattooed Husband, John Eastman.

That's it.

Nice. Yeah, it's awesome.