S3:E3 New Dad Tip about Breastfeeding with @the_breastfeeding_father

100% Dad Podcast interviews with Dad. We got— I can't quite remember the screen handle. Is it Breastfeeding Fathers?

Yeah, it's, uh, The Breastfeeding Father.

The Breastfeeding Father or Fathers?

Father.

Okay, got it. So I don't know how I came across you, but I came across you somehow. You must have hashtagged something dad-related, and yeah, it definitely caught my attention. So, uh, tell me a little bit about about what you're doing. And, you know, that's, that's certainly not a topic that dads discuss very often.

Yeah, and that's why I started it, actually. So, um, I have, um, you know, my second kid was born last year, this time last year, actually, um, and my wife decided, uh, that she wanted to breastfeed. And so I said, you know, I know, obviously I know what breastfeeding is but I don't know anything about it, um, and I don't know what my role is supposed to be, uh, while you're breastfeeding. I have an older daughter, uh, that I was a stay-at-home dad for, so we did the bottle thing. I was always making bottles, I was always, you know, feeding her and doing— but I had no idea what breastfeeding entails. So I started to do research and look up and see, you know, what breastfeeding was about, what my role was in the process. And I basically found nothing. Um, and it just kept giving me these like bullshit lists about how to support your partner in breastfeeding: bring them candy and make sure they have water and make sure they're in a comfortable place. And like, that's all cool, But how does the process work? Because when my wife is frustrated or she doesn't need— doesn't know how to do something quite well, I need to be able to be there to support her and say, hey, this is what we're supposed to be doing, or this is what, you know, it's— it should look like. I didn't find any of that, um, and so the more I searched, the less I found. And so I said, you know, there's a, a a really huge gap, uh, in information for dads like me that are out there looking for what their role is supposed to be, uh, and so I decided to create it.

And what's your background?

Uh, so I am a therapist. I work with children, uh, in adolescence. I've also worked with adults with severe mental illness, uh, be it schizophrenia, bipolar, schizoaffective, stuff like that. And I work with children and adolescents that suffer daily complex traumas. So they might, I don't know, their, their parents are incarcerated, or their parent died. And now they live with their grandparent, that's actually a trauma. And then they go to school, and they live in a bad neighborhood or a bad environment. So that's another trauma. So it's kind of compounding bad on top of bad on top of bad, and trying to find ways to help them cope with their environment and also be a barrier between that and their outcomes.

Okay, so there's a whole separate discussion I want to have, but we'll try and stick to the breastfeeding aspect of it. So I would have thought the same thing because if, I mean, if somebody asked me about it, you know, I had 3 kids and we breastfed each of the three. You know, it's obviously mostly on Mom. She's got the boob. Um, so I'm trying to think our, our greatest struggles. The hospital we went to, I think, had one or two lactation specialists. And so, because even the nurses really, I mean, they kind of knew the basics, but they didn't really get too deep with you. They, they had you consult with the lactation specialist.

Yeah.

And so I I remember my job always being, because our first child was a breech, so it was a C-section. And so, and in that hospital, once you have one C-section, you have to do C-sections for the rest of them. They just don't allow a normal birth. And so I always stayed with the baby and each experience was a little bit different, but the goal was always, because some, either we read it or we were told somewhere, the faster you get that baby latched, the better. So like in that 1-hour window, and they've still got to like stitch mom up and close her up and everything. And, uh, you know, for the first kid, uh, they whip everyone out of the room because it's 2010. So they said the room was too cold and you got to get the baby out of there. So me and the baby left, mom's still in there, and takes them about an hour. And it was me like pushing the doctors and nurses to get baby to mom to latch on, and that was like my sole goal. And then second kid I think, uh, I can't quite remember. I think they still got us out there pretty quick, but we were allowed to spend some time with mom. And then the third kid, they were like, hey, we don't do that anymore, you can stay with mom the entire time. And so we were able to latch on right away.

Yeah.

Um, and that's— it's amazing, like, even in 2010, 2013, 2016, how much the hospital improved. You would have thought they would have had it figured out by 2010, but they continued to improve. So good for the hospital, I guess. Yeah, um, I'm not sure why they hadn't figured out by 2010, but I know, uh, especially with the first one, because that's always the hardest, the— as far as breastfeeding goes, we did good at the hospital and then they sent us home and then there was no more milk. Oh my gosh, that first night was horrendous because she just wasn't creating milk and I was, I was Googling like, what can I do to help stimulate milk production? I think one of them was like warm beer or something like that. So I go to the store, get like a warm Belgian beer or something. I'm like, drink this. Like, we were trying anything at that point. Calling the lactation specialist, of course they're not picking up at 3, 4 o'clock in the morning.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, that was— it was, it was slightly traumatizing. Uh, so just curious from what your, your— what I guess you learned, because I, I wouldn't know either other than kind of, hey, let's make sure that latch is good.

And yeah, so my, my experience is, um with both my kids were actually the same and also very different. Um, so my first daughter, uh, she was born in 2013. She was a C-section also. Um, and we did the— they did the thing, and I was, you know, I was there in the room, uh, behind the curtain at her head or whatever while they were doing the C-section stuff.

And then did you, did you ever catch a glimpse of what was happening behind that curtain?

So this is what happened. I was behind the curtain, there was, I was sitting on my ex-wife's left head, left side of her head. A nurse was on the other side. And she was holding her hand, talking to her because she was still very much so awake.

Probably the anesthesiologist, right?

Yes, yes. And so she's talking to her, you're doing good, you're doing good. And, you know, she's kind of out of it and like saying random stuff. And so they took her out. And I heard her scream, I heard her cry. And I said, I want to see. And the person sitting next to me said, okay. And I stood up. I didn't see my baby. All I saw was my ex-wife's entire intestines on a table surrounded by bloody towels everywhere. And as fast as I went up, I was down again. Boom. Doc, I heard the doctor yell, If he gets back up and falls again, he's getting kicked out. Make— if he wants to see that baby, he's going to face the wall and look at the wall all the way around until you get there, and then do the same all the way back, because I am not helping you and helping her. Oh, they made me face the wall, um, and I got to see my baby, and I went and cut her cord. Um, but yeah, I had not been prepared for that. Uh, so she just said, yeah, go ahead, right, no problem. And I stood up, and that was not what I was expecting to see.

So I, I didn't get quite that detailed of a look, but in, in a surgical room, everything is shiny. And so they had like a stainless steel cabinet or something. I look over at one point and I just see blood wide open. I'm like, yep, yep, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna focus on that image too much. I'll just— eye to eye contact, you and me, we're good here.

So I saw it all. And my baby was like, across the room. So I was scanning, looking for her. So I kind of had no choice but to see it. And like you said, there's everything shiny, but the room is white. So that makes everything that's shiny even brighter. I had no— there was no missing it. There was no missing it. So she came out, and we went back to the recovery room, they brought her They brought my daughter in. And they said, how do you plan to feed? And she said, I want to breastfeed. And so the nurse said, okay, grabs the kid and shoves her on her breast. And then nothing happened. I don't know anything. I have no idea what they're supposed to be doing. So I'm just sitting there watching. And nothing happened. So she starts to freak out because she's worried that the baby's not getting fed. So she says, just give me a bottle. And I blinked my eye and the nurse was back and we're bottle feeding. And that was it. Like she didn't try to encourage her or say, well, no, you know, it takes a little bit of time. Let's try this. Let's call the lactation consultant. Let's—

any—

right back with a bottle. Um, and so at the time, I hadn't— that was my first kid. I didn't even know lactation consultants existed, um, or there was anyone other than the nurse in the hospital that was supposed to be helping us with this process. And so my wife is actually a nurse. Um, she's an ICU nurse. And so she knew a lot more about what was supposed to happen, what the hospital should look like, and all of those things. Um, and so I started doing the research on breastfeeding and what I was supposed to do, and kind of the same thing happened. Uh, my daughter was a natural birth, but after she came out, they put her right on her chest, uh, right away, and kind of Some things happened and she ended up going to the NICU for about an hour and a half, but then we came back and they put her right on her chest and she started the breastfeeding process. But again, the nurse shoved her breast into her mouth and that was it. There was no like information on, okay, this is how you get a proper latch, this is what a proper latch looks like, this is what you should be looking for, um for common mistakes. This is, you know, kind of any, any of those things. So what happened, we got home 5 days later, which is a whole nother story. They kept my wife and kid in the hospital. And I couldn't stay there. Why? COVID sucks.

Oh, this was during COVID Yes. Got it.

So They get— finally get home, and you know, my wife's happy to be home obviously, and you know, she's finally like decompressing and leaving the hospital mentally and all that stuff. And they— we get to nighttime, so we're all in the bed and the baby's freaking out because she can't get a good latch, and she's like shaking all over the place. And I was like, is this child possessed by a demon? Like, what is— what is going on? This kid is hungry. You need to do something. But the problem was she wasn't getting a proper latch, which was frustrating her, which in turn was frustrating my wife. So The baby's crying, she can't help her, now she's crying, and I'm sitting there stressed out like, what in the hell do I do? How do I— because if my wife gets stressed and the baby's stressed, nothing is happening. Um, and so I started looking at, you know, proper latching, uh, proper holding techniques, um, what could be happening if your baby isn't able to latch. Um, just all kinds of things in like trying to troubleshoot and figure out, you know, how I can help, uh, make the latch, um, kind of go easier and make it a less complicated process. And there's all— and dads, like you said, dads don't know, and there's all kinds of things that dads can do, um, to engage and help that process along. Uh, just so even if you're not doing it right, or you're not, I guess, helping per se with the latch properly, just being there, offering that support to be the calm person in the room and say, okay, let's, let's figure this out, can go a million miles. Just to help calm the situation down, because two stressed people can't do anything right. And it's just going to cause more stress.

And that's a high stress situation regardless.

Absolutely. Especially in the first couple of days, because even in the hospital, when you say I can't get the latch, the nurse just comes in and shoves it in her mouth and they're gone. And that's it. Well, that's not teaching me anything. I need to know what it is that I'm supposed to be doing. I need to know what I'm doing wrong. And I need to know there's certain things that my baby likes that your baby doesn't. So you telling me, you know, the common ways is okay, but that might not be good for my kid. So I need to know the common way so that I can adapt to the way that they, they like.

Yeah, I think if I remember, we did best with like, we always had one of those like a C-shaped pillows that was like a breastfeeding pillow. Those things were magic. And I think the football hold became our go-to, kind of like where you tuck the baby.

Yeah, that's exactly what she ended up using. And then, um, actually she ended up using the football hold mostly, but kind of like having to sort of lean back enough, uh, to where the baby was a little more comfortable in that position. Um, and then was able to— and then after that, man, it was game on. They were, they were rocking and rolling after that. So there was no, there was no issue. But like you said, I mean, there's a lot of dads that just didn't know, um, and they had no idea what that process was like.

So you're becoming an information source for those dads that just have no clue what they're getting into.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, as a, um, as a psychologist, first of all, um, just even in undergrad when I started my education, when you talk about parenting and you talk about, uh, rearing children, they mostly talk about the mother and child dynamic, and that's it. And I found myself frustrated a lot with that, um, and I would always say What about the dad? What about the dad? At that time, my oldest was still a baby, and I very— they talked about attachment and bonding, and I'm like, I want to bond with my kid too. I have an attachment to my kid too. So where am I in this book? What— how does this pertain to me? Because my kid has two parents, not just one.

You're sometimes a singular chapter in the back of the book.

You're not even, not even a single— sometimes you're not even a chapter. You're just a footnote.

Yeah.

It's tough. So I'm trying to, you know, my whole goal is to at least make us a chapter.

So now, did you and your wife, did you take any of those? Usually the community or hospital offers like those pre— not parenting classes, but like pre-birthing classes.

All of those things were canceled.

Um, so, oh, so both of your kids were within COVID?

Oh, well, with my first daughter, no, we didn't do, uh, any of those things. I didn't have the opportunity because, uh, with my first kid, my ex-wife and I were both active duty military, so we didn't really have a lot of time. To do a whole lot of stuff. So the little time that we did have, we spent probably reading books that we could find together. But that was about it.

Okay, got it. And did you find out later? Did— so was, was it on base or was it a normal hospital?

Yeah, it was on post. Yeah. Okay.

Was there— did they have lactation specialists? At that hospital, you just didn't know it?

They did. And we just didn't know. And it's something that you have to request.

Okay.

And how do you request something that you don't know about?

Yeah, I'm surprised, guys. I'm kind of surprised the process. I'm sure now. Well, you never are sure. But I'm sure now, maybe they bring it up to people more often.

So I would hope so. It's, it's a very valuable resource.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, those, those ladies were worth their weight in gold. Because it really is tricky in those first couple days to get used to what that child wants, what's good for the mom. And, you know, it's just— I feel like each one was slightly different in the story. I feel like the third one actually did pretty good, but the first one was a real struggle, especially with that gap, because we didn't know about that gap of, uh, you know, mom's milk comes in, or the pre-milk, whatever it's called, then there's kind of like a dry gap period for like a day or two. Yeah, where nothing's coming out. So now what, baby's starving and mom's frustrated.

And that's the other thing, you know, that, that first day with— especially the first few hours, um, that colostrum that comes out is probably the most important, uh, source of nutrition that they can get because there are, there are tons of things, uh, in there and immunities, right? Yeah, yeah, there's tons of immunities and nutrients and minerals and all kinds of things in there. Um, that just do very well for your baby. Um, and it's, it's unfortunate that a lot of that education isn't given.

Yeah. So what I guess, uh, is there anything really specific you've learned that's been really helpful to other people? Uh, maybe some like a, a top tidbit or a top, uh, piece of advice you're giving dads?

Yeah. So, um, I actually learned that when dads— when education is targeted toward fathers about the breastfeeding process, babies and mothers are more likely to initiate breastfeeding when they have the encouragement of the dad. Not only are they more likely to initiate, they're more likely to continue to breastfeed to the minimum, which is what the CDC and WHO recommends, the World Health Organization, of 6 months. They're more likely to go to that 6-month period and then beyond. And so the American Academy of Pediatrics says A great period of time to breastfeed is 2 years. Um, optimal period, if you know, as far as you can go, is 6 months. If you can do 6 months, great. If you can do an hour of breastfeeding or 5 minutes of breastfeeding, wonderful. But if you can go to the 6-month mark, great. If you can take them to the 2-year mark even better. And so when dads have the education of not just the slogan "breast is best," because we usually, we all know that, but we need to know why. Why is the breast best? What kind of benefits is my baby getting? And not just the benefits to my baby, but the benefits to my, to my partner, because those are numerous also. And so when we have that education, we're more likely to have more positive attitudes and more likely to encourage the process and be supportive of the process as far as support for breastfeeding in public, support for continuing to breastfeed when your family or friends are adverse to it. Support, just all around support in being like, kind of like your first line of defense. So they're more encouraged to continue to do so, because I have support in that process. So I think that was the most interesting thing for me that I found so far.

And so benefits-wise, I mean, obviously, health to the baby's body, if I'm It's been a while since I've looked into this stuff, but I think brain development, it plays a big role. Yeah, um, emotional development, especially when you factor in the bonding with mom and dad— or not mom and dad, but mom. There's just a lot of physical contact and a lot of, uh, um, yeah, I think it's just physical contact, isn't it? Not 100% sure, but it's a big bonding moment a lot of times.

There's a ton of— there's obviously the physical part, um, with touching and, and all of that. Um, but there's a huge bonding process, and there's a huge time of I'm feeding, so I'm looking down, we're making eye contact. Um, and so those—

I forgot about that—

in my baby's brain is producing those neurotransmitters that say this is what it feels like to be in a relationship, a secure and healthy relationship. The first relationship I ever have is with my caregiver, whoever that may be. So while I'm being breastfed and I'm looking up at this person that's, that's nurturing me, and they're looking down at me, we're making a huge connection, uh, with each other. Um, and that starts to form the process of attachment.

The—

there are immune system antibodies that are passed from the mother to the baby. And they are also, you know, gendered, or I'm sorry, biological sex dependent. So some babies, the girl babies get better respiratory antibodies from their mom, because girls are more likely to be susceptible to respiratory illnesses. So they get that from their mom. And less likely than boys are— not saying that boys can't, but girls are more likely to. And there's the cognitive part. It's not like— it's not saying that, you know, a breastfed baby is always going to be a genius. But there's a slight difference in educational outcomes in babies that were breastfed versus babies that were bottle-fed. And then the other benefits are it reduces the risk of moms with arthritis, reduces the risk of moms having breast cancer, it reduces the risk of moms having heart problems from like high stress and all of those things. The, the, the, the benefits are just innumerable, man, for both mom and baby.

So I didn't know those things about my— I knew the biggest benefit for moms is always it helps you lose weight. It's a, it's a big energy burner.

Sure. And you know what, that I think I'm finding that that's kind of sort of a misconception. Um, that can be true for some people, absolutely you can lose weight. Uh, but the problem with that is, I think, is that breastfeeding— people say you can lose weight because it takes extra energy, so I'm going to need to put those extra calories in my body So I can get that extra energy out. Well, if I'm just eating and breastfeeding and sitting, I'm probably not going to lose weight. Um, so it, it's— it would be kind of bad for someone to think the breastfeeding process is some sort of exercise regimen because it's not.

I wonder, does it stimulate a release of chemicals to help, I don't know, break down the— or, you know, I'm not exactly sure because, I mean, obviously women have, um, you know, just carried a baby for 9 months, so there's a lot there that has to kind of shrink back up and, and, uh, you know, just in a real— what do you call it— physiological sense adjust. So I wonder if— does that stimulate those— I don't know, those hormones or chemicals or—

yeah, so when, um, when the baby is born uh, before the baby is born. But when the baby is born, two neurotransmitters, um, in the brain are super important. Um, one is prolactin, uh, which is the neurotransmitter that is released to tell the breast to start producing milk. Um, and so when the baby is born, that's what happens. That neurotransmitter says, okay, it's time to produce milk now, we have a baby to feed. Um, the other is when I'm making that eye contact with my baby, oxytocin is produced, which is sometimes, uh, called the love hormone or the love neurotransmitter. It promotes bonding between humans. And so when I'm looking down at my baby, um, it's helping me to make a bond and say, oh, my baby is so cute. Oh, I love you so much. Creating that bond so that that baby can survive. And so that's just kind of how we work as far as taking care of each other and kind of raising our children. And so those two neurotransmitters and hormones work together. To make that happen.

Okay, I figured there was a scientific explanation there.

There's always one to everything.

Uh, all right, so we, we know breast milk better than formula. Uh, which is funny, there's what, a few decades there where they stopped breastfeeding altogether and said only formula, which is just— they also used to knock moms out and just take the baby out. They used to actually put them under. There's so many crazy things.

They just grab them with like a huge pair of pliers or some crap. Oh yeah, yank them out there.

Um, for a while my wife was telling me she was reading one book, uh, that was from a medical perspective of— I don't know if it was 1800s or what it was, but they couldn't figure out why all the maternity wards were dying the most. And it was of like some disease that was going around, some sickness, because the doctors weren't washing hands. They would keep all the pregnant women in the same room This is old school hospital, so it's a big one open room and everyone's just laying on cots and you never wash your hands. So you just go from woman to woman to woman and then you've killed the entire room or infected the entire room. Like, oh, I wonder what happened. That was bad luck.

Yeah, yeah, thankfully we don't do that anymore. There's a lot of things that we don't do anymore that I'm—

oh gosh, yeah, uh, sorry. So breast milk better than formula, um actually, uh, feeding from mom better than getting in the breast milk from a bottle.

Sure, sure.

Yeah. Uh, you know, dad's role becomes— no, what'd you say? Dad's being supportive, uh, and encouraging breast drive. I mean, it's statistically much higher success rates, um, of actually— of it actually happening, I guess.

Yes.

Uh, what were some other big takeaways?

Uh, I think, um, yeah, just the neurotransmitters that, uh, help with the process, both creating and producing the milk, um, and creating, uh, and supporting that bond between mom and baby. Um, there was something else that I was actually just thinking about. Uh, that was actually super important, and now I can't remember what that is.

Well, so, so I always kind of felt guilty, um, because one, you're breastfeeding, you know, mom has to get up every hour and a half, 2 hours, and then you're feeding for an hour, then by the time the kid goes back, it's almost like there's no sleep happening. And, you know, I got up a few times, uh, obligatorily, just to be there. And in our, in our situation Mom didn't produce a lot of milk. Um, we never figured out— it was for all 3 kids, so she would run both sides dry, and then we'd have to supplement with some formula because the baby would still be hungry. And so we never really had that option to pump and build up a supply. We did sometimes, but our supplies would get consumed so quick because we were supplementing with formula. If we had any extra you know, from when mom went out or something, or, you know, grandparents were watching, so she had to pump out, uh, you know, that was consumed pretty quick. So there was not much of an opportunity for me to help unless we just did, you know, formula only for that feeding, which we, we definitely did a couple times just so mom could sleep. Because, you know, mom sleeping is a helpful thing because every— everyone's going crazy in that house for the first year.

Yeah, yeah, I need you to go to sleep. I need you to at least take a nap. Because I'm suffering here.

Yeah, right. Uh, we had a pretty good support network of, uh, a mix of friends and family that would kind of— and here was the key we learned, is stagger that support. So instead of having a baby and everyone comes in for 2 weeks, we're like, all right, only a couple people come in the first week, then a few more people the second week, and you can stretch it out for almost 8, 10, 12 weeks. Yeah, of, uh, yeah, then you've got meals coming that'll, you know, help assist, and then it's a little bit more impactful instead of getting 39 casseroles for one week and then half of them go bad. Um, yeah, yeah. Or someone come over, you know, you forget about them. Yeah, we had lots of friends that would come over. They would just help like fold the laundry or get the dishes done in the same— I mean, just, you know, really genuinely nice things just to help kind of keep us, uh, you know, from going too crazy, you know.

And that's another thing that COVID cheated me out of, actually.

Um, oh yeah.

I'm sorry, not me. My wife and my baby. Yeah, us. Yeah, we're in this together. Yeah, when— so we originally had midwives. And I can't remember what it is. But there was a specific disorder or disease that happens during pregnancy to where you get like these red spots all over and they start to itch really bad, um, and some other things start to happen. And, you know, it's, it's either a sign of something's going to happen or it's probably okay, you don't have to worry about it. My wife had that happen, um, and so she, through blood work, they found out, okay, you do have this, um, and I'm really struggling to remember what it was called, um, but so almost sounds like shingles or chickenpox or something like that. Yeah, yeah, it was something close to that, but it only happens during pregnancy. So once the pregnancy is over, it all just goes away, um. And so they found out she had that, and so we got in— she got induced, um, and she got induced like the day after. Um, and so because of that, we ended up with, uh, a delivery doctor and not the midwives anymore. But here I'm in Canada, so here in Canada, after you give birth, the midwives will come to your house, they help you around the house, they'll do— they can do light housework, make sure you're comfortable and situated Um, they'll cook something and bring you something to eat, and they'll come back and check on you for a couple of days, um, after that. Um, and so because of COVID uh, we got cheated out of that, and I didn't get that. I was so looking forward to have someone come and cook something, and I'd be like, you know, just make a little bit, a little bit extra, it'll be okay. I'll make sure she can see. So yeah, we kind of took that away from us. But yeah, we haven't, you know, we have a lot of family support here. So that was great. It worked out well for us in that, in that area.

That's good. So what's it like in Canada then? How long? So you go in for a C-section or birth, how long do they let you stay? So you guys have, you guys have a universal kind of healthcare system there, don't you?

Yeah, yeah. And so let— okay, so let me stay or let her stay?

Uh, yes, both.

Okay, so when, um, so the rules were, uh, after your baby is born, your support person, be it the father, whoever is there with you, can stay for 8 hours. Once that kid hits the bed, you got 8 hours in and you gotta go. So luckily for us—

yeah, that was— that during COVID or before COVID During COVID Yeah.

Okay.

So that wasn't a norm. That was a COVID rule.

Yeah. So my baby was born January 30th last year. And so luckily for me, my wife is a nurse. So she knew a lot of the people, nurses and doctors and stuff walking around the hospital. So the young nurse that was there—

don't say anything that'll get you in trouble.

Yeah, no, that's what I'm— the young nurse that was there decided it was okay for me to stay for a little bit longer. So I got to spend a couple more hours with my kid, my wife. But then they found out, oh, we think she's, she's a bit jaundiced. So we want her to stay.

They stuck her under those chicken lights. Yeah.

And so they waited, actually, they waited a day to see if she was going to get, I guess, yellower. And they wanted to see because she was sort of jaundiced, but not really. And so they wanted to see if it would progress, which meant that my wife and baby had to stay in the hospital one and I had to go home. But luckily, she got to stay there because at that point, the baby is the patient and not her. So because she was breastfeeding, they let her just keep her same room. And they both stayed and they admitted the baby in the same, in that same room, and my wife got to stay. Had she went home, and they said, oh, we think the baby's done, that she hasn't come back, well, it would have been a totally different story. Um, and I just don't know how that would have worked out.

Yeah, I'm glad, I'm, I'm glad I didn't have a kid during COVID I feel like I would have been one of those, uh, jerk dads that was just fighting hell and high water.

Let me tell you, it was rough. Um, and so luckily for me, their room was on the first floor, so I have pictures of me making every excuse that I could to go up there to the hospital. Like a creep, I was walking through the snow all the way around to their room and just looking through the window. Um, and just like, I would call her on the phone and she'd have her phone and we could talk, and she'd hold the baby up to the window and I could see them. Um, and that was essentially for the first 4 or 5 days how I spent time with my family.

That's rough.

And it was hard, man. It was hard. I held it together for 3 days.

That's just a lot of bonding missing the first few days.

Oh my God, it was a ton. And it was, yeah, it was not only a lot of bonding, it was a huge feeling for me of I'm not doing my job protecting my family. And I'm not there. Doesn't matter that it's because I can't. I'm not doing my job protecting my family, um, and this sucks. And so I made it 3 days and I was okay. And then the last day, my friends were calling and checking on me because they knew what was going on. And then the last day, uh, a friend called and said, how are you doing? And that was it. And that was done. And I just— I can't take it. I need them to come home. I'm crying. I'm like everything. So I slept on the couch for 4 nights with my dogs. Uh, I didn't sleep in my bed because my wife wasn't there. Um, and I just stayed in the living room, man, and like made every excuse I can. I brought them breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Uh, if she wanted a cup of coffee, I ran and got it and brought it up there. Um, and I just, you know, I would go to the door and give whatever I had to the nurses, uh, and then walk around to the window and go and see and talk to my wife. But it was hard, and it was hard.

Yeah, that sounds like it. So, um, so where we were, which is Florida, uh, we did— this is 2010— we prepaid. So we would, we would prepay the hospital because they'll give us best discount. Because I was a business owner, so I never had normal insurance. I had like the, you know, don't go bankrupt insurance. I was always responsible for like the first $10,000 in medical care myself. Yeah. Then after that, we were protected. It was like— it was like a catastrophic policy, basically. So if I got in a big car accident, want to bankrupt me, I'd be protected. So we would prepay in the hospitals like $3,500 or whatever. And then you pay the anesthesiologist, you pay the doctor. And to prepay the hospital, I think they would give you up to 4 days of a room. And come day 3 for our first child, they were like, you know what, we think he's a little bit jaundiced, but I think you guys are good to go. We're like, are you sure?

Blah, blah, blah.

You know, we're new parents, we don't know what's going on. And we went home and that first night was the night, you know, her milk— she dried up from the colostrum to milk. And it was a nightmare. And then a couple of days later, they're like, oh yeah, he is jaundiced. Let's— and then they admit us back to the hospital to pay a separate bill for one day. And so that one we're— we kind of argued with them with, hey, we paid for 4 days, uh, we used 3, and then we came back for a 4th, and you want us to pay like another $4,000 or something like that? Like, these things, these things aren't making sense. So I think we ended up settling for something on that. Uh, but yeah, after that, because we would always do the prepay option, uh, we would enforce our 4 days. Like, nope. Like, I know we're healthy to go. We are staying here for 4 days. We're where you have a lactation consultant and if something goes wrong, we're here. And, you know, and so that's, that's advice I've given to other fathers was, you know, whatever time you're allowed, like, it's just, it's another few hours of a nurse helping you, um, of even just, you know, some peace and quiet for mom to go to sleep. Um, oh, and that was the other tip I give dads, uh, talk to the nurses. So anytime you're in medical, nursing homes, hospitals, whatever, Talk to the nurses, be like a friendly face, be nice to them, engage with them, because that really does help the care of your family member. And it was, you can try and get, because they come in, they're running tests all the time on your, they're taking blood, they're giving medications and stuff. And so the best you can, they can't always do it perfectly, but you can have them kind of do all that stuff at the same time. So instead of her being woken up every 45 minutes to an hour, plus feedings and things like that, you can sit there and say, all right, if she's sleeping, like, let her go, and then come bring her the medication when the baby's, you know, coming in for food, or bring her, you know, medication for, um, or, you know, doing the needles or drawing blood, you know, when something else is happening. And so that way you got more uninterrupted sleep. Um, and so that was something for the second and third child we did that was really, really really helpful.

This is something that's something that actually pissed me off a lot. Because they were coming back and forth, all these people doing all these checks. And then as they're leaving, they would say, okay, get some rest.

Now I'm like, wake me up.

Yeah, quit coming in here then. And we were on Fort Hood in Texas. So it was a teaching hospital. So there was tons of people And you were—

so you were American military?

Yeah, yeah, I am American. I'm from Chicago.

Oh, okay.

So I'm, I'm here with my wife.

Um, is your wife Canadian?

Yes, yes, she is.

Okay, so the first baby was American hospital, second baby was Canadian hospital?

Yes, yes.

Or your first baby was military American hospital?

Yeah, yeah. So actually, my, uh, the second baby was conceived in Chicago. Chicago. My wife was working in a hospital at the time, and I was working in another hospital. So we lived in Chicago. And we had almost had every intention of just staying there. But when you weigh the pros and the cons, man, you prepaid— I didn't pay anything to have my kid.

I know.

So, you know, we didn't like— we didn't pay for meds.

We also have— we also have a 0% income tax in Florida. So there's that.

There's that. And you know what, the taxes are crazy high. But at the same time, I know I'm taken care of. If I get hit by a car, I can go to the hospital, or something happens. I know I can— I'm taken care of.

You know, if I get hit by the car, I'm gonna go to a hospital too.

Sure, sure you are.

They better, they better take me to the hospital.

Get there though is the question.

Straight to the recycling facility.

Exactly, exactly. How much is it going to cost you to get there? And then for other people that is not, that are not as fortunate as us, um, what's going to happen to their life after? And so I think about a lot.

So I— we visited Chicago, I want to say October, uh, and everyone talks crap about Chicago. I was like, you know, if you want to get murdered, go to Chicago. If you want to get robbed, go to Chicago. It's a great place to visit if you like being, um, killed while you're walking the streets. And I went there and I genuinely liked it. Like, I mean, so I saw the area— I'm not sure, it's probably the touristy area, so it's kind of— we stayed kind of in between Chicago Bears football stadium, whatever that's called, and like that Navy Pier, whatever that thing's called. Yeah, was it called the Navy Pier? Did it have a number?

Yeah, it's Navy Pier.

Okay, so kind of like that section of town. They had that big park, they've got the Chicago Bean, they've got all the museums and bunch of restaurants and all that, the, um, the waterfront. And I loved it. I mean, we weren't bothered by anybody, um, had no problem. I parked probably 4 streets off, you know, kind of under that big, uh, you know, what do you call those trains that are in the air?

Oh, the L. The L. Yeah.

Uh, which, that thing throws sparks off every once in a while. The first time it did that, caught me off guard. It's like a big shower of sparks coming down near me.

Yeah.

Uh, and we had no problems, no problems with, you know, the truck or anybody bugging us or so. Listen, man, Chicago, I liked it a lot.

Greatest city in the world. Um, and yeah, I'm biased because that's my home, but I'm telling you, Chicago is the greatest city you could ever visit. There's always something going on. Um, there's always a festival to go to. There's always a party happening. Um, there are always just— there's always something to do. Um, and that's no matter who you are, whether you have kids or you don't have kids. Um, there's always something going on. Um, and you stayed, uh, between Navy Pier and Soldier's Field. In the downtown area, which is an amazing area. There's so many restaurants. There's so many things to do. There's hardly— there are very minimal chain restaurants you're going to find in downtown Chicago.

Yeah, there's one called— there's one called The Gauge. Yeah. It's fantastic. We're trying to— I can't remember the place where we got the deep dish pizza, but I did not know Chicago's deepest pizza was that. I just thought, I just thought it was gonna be like a thick crusted pizza with like garlic and butter or whatever. And like, you know, I didn't realize it's like a pie with pastry on top and bottom and filled with— I had no clue.

An entire meal. Um, so more than likely you either probably went to, uh, Lou Malnati's or Giordano's.

I think, I think we went to Giordano's.

Yeah, I can look at it.

I remember where it was, but I know we looked at so many different names and they all got crossed in my head between which one we decided to go, actually go to. But it was, it was cool.

Chicago's great, man. And that, and that stuff, you know, that they talk about, does it happen? Sure. Um, but it's, it's not the entirety of Chicago. It's in very select areas to where those are areas where you shouldn't be in the first place, um, so you won't, you won't have those problems. Um, yeah, it's just what people, what they portray on TV, so that's all you see.

Sure. And I saw, I mean, you know, there's certain things that every city has.

Yeah.

Um, you know, there's certain, just, you, you know, New York City, uh, New York City's really— I like New York City, but we definitely saw a lot of craziness, especially, you know, when the sun goes down.

Um, this is what I know about Florida. I don't want to go there because I don't want to wake up in the morning with an alligator on my doorstep.

Um, the alligators, really, they really don't bother you.

Okay, says you. I'm okay. I don't want to find out.

They— the snakes will get you more than the gators will. Gators are really— they're scared of you. Like, a gator, like, you stomp near it, you try and slap it, it's gonna go away. It's scared of you.

Famous last words. That's what everyone's— oh, they're more scared of you than you are of them.

They are. And you know, if you— if like, if you're on a boat and one comes up next to you, if you jump on it and clamp its jaw shut, you can just roll around with it and have some fun. It can't open its mouth back up. You know, they don't have— they don't have opening power. I didn't hear what you said.

What happens if you miss?

Oh, that's not good.

Exactly.

It's easy, you just don't miss. Yeah, it depends how big— it depends how big the gator is.

Where they hunt alligators, um, out there in the, in the bayou or whatever. No thanks, I'm good.

That's fine. So what I really want to do, I haven't done it yet, is go down to South Florida. And, uh, uh, the state of Florida will pay you to remove pythons, to kill pythons. But I want to go python hunting because it's, it's such a, a problem down there because those snakes are not natural to our ecosystem. They got, uh, depending on who you believe, they, they're either pets that have been released and have multiplied way too much. Or we heard that, that in 1994 when that big Hurricane Andrew came through, it wiped out a snake facility, a reptile facility, and spread the snakes everywhere. But yeah, the pythons are taking over and they're just wreaking havoc on that ecosystem.

Yeah.

And so yeah, the state of Florida will pay you by the foot, and the longer the snake you get, the more they'll pay you because they just want them gone. You see a python, you kill it. Because it's not supposed to be there.

If you can make it back, sure.

Oh, we'll make it back if it don't get you first. This is not the movie Anaconda. We're coming back.

Okay.

Uh, Florida's fun. There's, there's parts that are crazy, and there's— and because it's a lot of, um, sun and drinking, uh, you know, there's just— it brings out the weird in people. Because it's a different lifestyle.

And I think it's one of those places that people was mostly associated with like spring break, um, and so that's what somebody thinks of it.

Or like, uh, maybe the '90s.

Let's go there. And it's, you know, it's like my—

so Miami, uh, if you talk to any real Floridian, Miami is not a part of Florida. They're their own thing down there. We kind of leave them alone, they leave us alone, and, uh That's Miami. Yeah, Key West is a whole different scene too. Um, but yeah, I mean, and then, you know, coastal Florida is a lot different than inland Florida. So there's— it's a, it's a really big state.

Yeah, yeah.

And so there's a lot to it, but I like it. I'm a redhead, so I don't like do the sun stuff. My wife's a blonde, so she likes it. That's where we are right now. We're off the Gulf of Mexico right now, uh, and it's great, you know, short sleeves. Um, I'm missing right now because we're doing this podcast. They're having, uh, they're cooking burgers over at the pool. They've got live music, like a Jimmy Buffett, uh, cover band kind of guy. Yeah, yeah, everyone's having a beat. They're in the pool, everyone's enjoying the view of the Gulf, and I'm in here talking to you, man.

Look, we, we're having a heat wave right now. It's 16 degrees outside.

Oh, that sounds brutal.

It's pretty nice. So the last like 2 weeks, I think, uh, yeah, about 2 to 3 weeks now. You wake up and it's like -30 and it's painful.

And so you got free healthcare.

Plus, it's great.

You got free healthcare, -30-degree mornings.

We do. We do. And butthole deep in snow. All right. Yes.

Well, it was a pleasure talking with you. So where do we get the best information from you? Is that happening on Instagram? Is it through a website? What's the best way? If there's a dad curious about the breastfeeding process, uh, what's the best way to get—

now is, um, is still Instagram, uh, @the_breastfeeding_father. Um, I'm considering what podcasts might look like. Uh, I'm considering— I'm actually considering, um, trying to build some type of seminar, um, to give dads this information.

Yeah.

But being, being a PhD candidate takes a lot of time. And also being a new dad takes a lot of time. So it's a struggle right now, but it's gonna get there. So hopefully in the sometime this year, I'll be able to offer some more things.

That'd be cool. Well, it's a pleasure talking with you.

Yeah, you too, man.

All right. Have a good day.

All right. Bye.

This is 100% Dad. Find our current tour schedule on 100dad.com, 100dad.com, on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and more @100dad, 100dad. Email Townsend at 100dad.com.