S3:E4 Interviews with Dads featuring Will Atchison

100% Dad Podcast interviews with dads. We got Will, I'm assuming it's Atkinson, Atkinson.

Atchison.

Atchison. Pronounce the CH. Tell us a little bit about you, who you are, what you do, how many kids you got, marriage status, all the basics. Awesome, awesome.

So I have an insurance agency.

Recently sold one, started a new one under a different set of, a different space.

Basically, I've been married for going on 6 years now. Dad of one.

How can you basically be married for 6 years now?

Well, 'cause it's going— April, it will be 6.

Okay.

So, basically, like kind of almost. Got it. Definitely for 5 years, but almost 6.

I get it, all right.

One daughter, she'll be 2 on the 11th of February.

And yeah, man, just staying busy like the rest of us, you know?

Cool. So the insurance agencies, are we just talking like normal, like car, auto, home, that kind of stuff?

That's what I'm doing now. So right now I actually just became a broker. I was an agent with a captive agency for about 4 years, about 4 years. My wife and I, we started an office together. We had about 50 or so people, um, under us there.

Um, so you own the agency?

Yes, now, now I do.

Okay, so you were managing, you were managing somebody else's? Well, or you're an agent?

It's a funny, like, it's kind of hard to explain. So I worked for a captive agency. Uh, so basically that works.

What, what's a captive agency?

So they want you to own like State Farm or a company like that where they're only going to want you to sell the products that they have to offer. Um, whereas now that I'm a broker, like you were saying, I can get— you can shop different life, final expense, health, Medicare. I can basically do it all now.

Yeah.

Um, so before, um, we had kind of worked our way up from, you know, just day one agent to going out, starting an office. We had about a 9,000 square foot office. Um, did that for about a year and a half. We opened it the month after I had my daughter in February. We opened it in March. And then a week later, the pandemic hit. So all of that at once was certainly a lot, but we made it through it. We don't quit very easily and got out of that.

So you opened up an insurance agency on your own, you and your wife, right after you have a kid because there weren't enough stressors in life. I did the same thing, by the way. Every time we had a kid, I started a new business. Um, now, did you start it out in a 9,000 square foot with 50 people? That was like day one of—

no, so we started with 9,000 square foot. We started with that.

Most insurance guys that I know, they start off with like, like a shared office or something. Like, they just get going, then they build up a book of business, and then they kind of— they grow.

I had already— I had already been working for this company for about 3 years, so I had already built up a couple million dollar book of business. So I had residual income coming in from that. And then we started with about 10 people. Um, okay, was already in leadership, had a team of about 10, got a promotion along with my wife. We went over, we, we brought a business plan to my boss. Um, there wasn't an office in St. Pete where we lived.

So you're kind of like a new division almost?

Correct, that's exactly what we were.

Is it like a franchise model almost?

Uh, no, not so much.

Okay.

It's, it's kind of a plug-and-play system like that where there's already kind of a structure in place when you get there. Some of that we did on our own specific to our office, but you know, the basic stuff was already kind of in place when we started.

Okay, in the industry at that company.

Um, okay, so what city did you say it was?

St. Pete. That's where we live. St. Pete, Florida.

Yeah, right, right down the road from me. That's right.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I saw you were from Florida. I was like, man, uh, so we're from St.

Augustine, so other coast.

Uh, that's—

and then we're hanging out in Celebration right now.

Okay, but Celebration, that's out near Orlando. Yeah.

Yeah, Kissimmee. Yeah, by, uh, just, just west of, uh, Orlando. It's where like all the Disney and SeaWorld and all that jazz is.

Got it.

You doing any of that stuff?

Actually, we were just over in Tampa. We were at the State Farm— or State Farm, um, you got me thinking insurance— uh, the State Fairgrounds, uh, a couple days ago on Sunday because they had a big RV show over there. Uh, the RVs—

tell me about your van, brother. My, my brother-in-law recently built out his own Sprinter van That's kind of what he's living in right now. I was kind of curious.

Have you seen my rig?

I haven't. Oh, I've seen like little glimpses of it, but I haven't seen like the full-on.

For starters, yeah, for starters, it's not a van. Um, it's a fifth wheel. Trying to think, I can't think, I can't think of a way to show it to you right now other than if you popped over to the website. Um, Uh, yeah, so it's a fifth wheel. It's a 2020 North Point, um, so it's about 43 foot. And then we've got a Ford Dually, uh, 2017, uh, one-ton that pulls it.

Got it.

So a little different than van life, a little more space. So you park it, um, moving's a little more difficult because you're pulling basically an 18-wheeler trailer, right? And so the maneuvering is a little different. Van life is, uh, looks appealing. Uh, it's less appealing. Well, yeah, it depends. I like being outside. I like nature. I like going up to national parks.

I love all that stuff too.

We like hiking. Well, so that gets you there. That— a van life gets you into the national parks. You can just hang out there. You can hike all day. You come back and it's a glorified tent. It's a mini home. Um, And it's, it's better than tenting, and it's for sure, it's better than having to go back to a hotel or things like that. So it just gets you deeper in there, especially if you set up to go boondocking, because then you can really go in the middle of nowhere, which we like to do, uh, and you're just parked in the middle of nature with not a human in sight, uh, and it's really cool. It's a different experience, um, and so we like that kind of stuff. But it's It's fun. It's like— so the van life is just so small when you have a family. It's really not super conducive. Maybe if you have one kid.

Well, he's a single— my brother-in-law is a single guy. He's like 25 or 26.

Yeah, single, dating, even married. Like, I would do that, you know, when we're older and the kids are out or gone. Or, um, yeah, because it— the van gives you a lot more maneuverability. You know, you can get into gas stations, you know, because you're not towing this big thing. Uh, you can squeeze into restaurants, you can detour and go to unknown paths and just kind of explore. Whereas when you're towing 43 feet and 20,000 pounds, you don't want to get stuck on some side road where you cannot turn around, you know?

Right.

Uh, you know, so that's cool. So it has some advantages. It is, it is pretty cool. I, I enjoy the lifestyle. Uh, The, the biggest frustration I have in this life is my ability to work is severely compromised because, I mean, you have an office. My, my entire RV is 420 square foot, which is practically the size of my office back home. And so just imagine your office having, you know, your entire family's beds and a kitchen, and when you want to get the work done, you have your entire family, you have your entire family in the office. Yeah, and you know, try being— try being productive in that scenario with even when they're, you know, quote unquote not bothering you, uh, you know, you're always getting tapped on the shoulder, asked a question.

Yeah, and I mean, I'm sure you're an engaged dad, so when you're around your kids, you want to be around your kids, and when you're at work, you probably want to be at work.

Yeah, and so that's harder to do in the RV life than, uh than at home.

I didn't even fully like think about that, just simply because, you know, the stuff you see on social media and things like that, you know, everybody's having a great time, you're exploring, you're doing all that stuff. So, and we do think about the whole working out of it, and there's, and there's realities to them.

For the last couple years, we've just really been, we've been more in the enjoyment process, been trying to work as much as we can, but Now it's getting to the point where like, all right, we— I need to actually work on the business of 100% Dad instead of just building it and, you know, figuring out.

So you're just doing the page full-time?

Uh, yeah, yeah, essentially. Um, I wish if I was doing it full-time it'd be a lot better than it is. So I, I do it as much as I can. Um, I, like I said, I'm just not as efficient as I would be at home. Uh, You know, because something that could take me 15, 20 minutes at home genuinely will take me a couple hours here because, A, I'm getting interrupted. Just setting up will take me 20 minutes because I got to get my space, you know, I got to get the desk set up, I got to get the— getting the internet sometimes is a 30 to 45 minute struggle. Uh, and then once you get— and I'm one of those guys that gets zoned in and work like I, you know, I'm very ADD, so when I get zoned in, like I super accomplish, but I'm easily pulled out of that. And when I'm not zoned in, I'm just easily distracted by 100 million things. And it's hard to get zoned in when there's your peripheral visions— oh, there's always movement, there's someone yelling and screaming, there's a fight going on between the kids, wife's asking you to fix something, step in, neighbors are knocking on the door asking, you know, hey, we saw your rig, what's all this about? Uh, which we like all that stuff, it's just like Like I said, I am remarkably less efficient than I used to be.

Um, so you have—

that's the only downside.

Your rig is all wrapped with 100% Dad stuff.

Yeah. Can— are you near a computer? Go to the 100% Dad site, 100dad.com, and then, uh, hit the tour button, and I think there's a picture of the rig on that one because I saw a little bit of it in one of your stories. Yeah, so it's usually in the background somewhere.

Oh wow, man, you're not lying. That's a big deal there. That's cool.

It's fun.

That's awesome, man.

Yeah, so I know that, that picture is getting outdated now. We, we made that in, uh, early 2020. It's 2022 now, so, you know, the, the 3-year-old's now, what, he's pushing 6? Yeah, it'll be 4 months before he's 6, but it's a 5 and a half. 8-year-old— no, 9-year-old's now 11. The 6-year-old's now 8. So everyone's getting older. Everyone always asks me my kids' ages, and it's, you know, I usually know them. When we left, they were 3, 6, 9, and that was super easy to remember because, you know, it's, uh, to the windows, to the wall. Um, but, you know, they keep having birthdays and it's messing with me tonight, man.

I don't know, I wish my birthdays would stop as well.

So yeah, Tampa's nearby. We were at the RV show on Sunday because they had a big one, so we were near you. But anyway, I interrupted. So you got one kid, a girl, 2 years old, started a new business. So I assume the business is about 2 years old. No.

So this is— I mean, I just locked in an office space. I actually move into that new office tomorrow.

Oh, I thought you said you guys had a baby, then opened up the office like the same week.

We did. That was my first office. I just sold that and just opened a new one on my own.

Got it.

My own agency.

So you were— you opened up a branch of somebody else's and then now are opening up one that's 100% yours?

Yeah, I mean, the other one was 100% ours as well.

We were on the lease, paying all the bills, uh, everyone that was recruited out of that office was recruited by myself or my wife.

But it was under somebody else's umbrella?

Yes, correct. Like, they had a, um, I was self-employed with somebody able to still tell me what to do, if that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Um, they're able to kind of dictate leadership changes, who gets a promotion, who doesn't. I mean, obviously we had a really big say, but I had someone else that kind of would approve those things. I had an upline Now here I'm the tip of the spear, so to speak.

And you sold it back to that person, I'm assuming?

Back to my boss. I mean, we started it, put all the build out, did all the cubes, did all the, you know, everything, conference room, the whole nine. Did it for, I guess, about a year and a half, going on 2 years, maybe about 2 years. And then We were approached with an offer, um, and okay, so he came to you and asked to buy out the office? Uh, he didn't ask to buy it, he more or less wanted it, and we were like, well, you're gonna have to buy it, kind of thing. Fair enough. So yeah, creative differences.

He thought he was just gonna take it, huh?

I said the same thing to him. This is kind of the face I had on when he told me, um, because it just doesn't work like that. I mean, you know, it'd be like somebody walking over to your apartment that you are on the lease of and being like, hey, I'm gonna just live here now.

Um, so partnerships— gosh, there's so many partnerships go south. I mean, there's a few success stories, but, um, that happens a lot in business where one, one just decides, hey, that guy's making a lot of money, that could be mine, and they just— their whole, their whole framework of how they think changes?

Yeah, man, it, um, greed is a real thing. Um, you know, I like to be the man I am, and I stand on my integrity. Am I perfect? No, um, but I'm always going to be able to sleep at night based on how I treat people and, uh, you know, things like that.

I mean, you know, sometimes the longer road is the better one, you know.

Um, so yeah, man, I'd say it was running extremely well. We did a really good job. We had one of— we had the nicest office that they had. We had a lot of amenities. I had a barber shop in my office and things like that. So we kind of created a culture, um, that was really conducive to the industry that I'm in. And, um, you got to explain the barbershop in an insurance office.

You don't have that people that you're—

that—

I mean, Facebook, I would get. They got a ton of people to get haircuts still.

Well, so we had an office culture of, um, like, how do you want to carry yourself? What type of leader do you want to be? Do you want to be somebody who's in a suit? Do you want to be a guy in pajamas every day at the office?

What is it that you want? And, you know, my mindset is you dress to impress, and, you know, first impressions are a big deal. And if you want people to take you seriously, I think there's a certain effect that your look can just on first, you know, eye shots, that you can have a big impression on somebody based on that. And maybe they're a little easier to hear what you have to say or so back to the barbershop, I like to keep a clean haircut, fade, or whatever you wanna call it. So I have a personal barber and he would come into the office and cut me every Wednesday. And basically to help his small business, I kind of went to him and said, "Hey, look, when you come on Wednesday, instead of just doing me in the morning and then getting out of here, why don't you stay and cut 5, 6, 10, however many of my guys want a haircut?" So it did a couple of things for me too. It kept my, you know, it's 2 hours to go get a haircut. I timed it. Between leaving, getting there, getting the haircut, and then getting back to the office. It took me about 2 hours to do that, and I want my guys to maximize their time. So if I can provide a service that they don't have to leave the office to get, and then they can get right back to work, um, that's what I wanted to do.

Plus, I have guys walking around my office with nice clean haircut. They look good, they feel good, they're confident., and all of those things do well for sales.

So, so no services for the gals then, huh?

We had— we actually, we did, um, had a, uh, every other week we had a spray tan lady come in. She has like a little booth that she sets up in Florida. Yeah, yeah. Um, and a nail tech. So they would come in and do the girls' nails and stuff like that.

That's funny. Uh, so back to the first impressions, uh, not because not a lot of people talk about that anymore, because that's something that's really— it's shifting in culture, uh, because you look at the Zuckerbergs and such that, you know, the billionaires that can just walk around wearing their gray shirts and sweatpants or whatever they want because, you know, they're worth $73 billion. A little different.

That's what I was gonna say.

Yeah, a little different than if you or I decided to wear sweatpants to a first sales meeting. You know, he can go to an investor meeting, never met met somebody before and wear that and doesn't matter. Instant respect. You be you. But if you or I did that to a, you know, sales meeting, meeting someone for the first time, we might be able to, based on our language and how we handle ourselves, um, of course, but, but realistically, yeah, first impressions matter. And that's not only how you look but how you handle yourself and, um, right, the language you use and how you speak and the level of respect you convey and all that kind of stuff.

Agreed, agreed.

I— we were in the service industry, so, um, you know, I could usually— you know, we— I was never a suit and tie guy.

Um, I don't— I don't love it, I gotta say.

But yeah, I mean, I think the look's dapper and awesome. Um, it's just it wasn't practical, you know. I would have to go fix machines sometimes, and, you know, it was kind of You know, I was a mix between white collar and blue collar. So sometimes I was in the office plugging away, and then, you know, a freight truck comes in and there's no one there to unload it, and I'm the guy unloading the freight truck. Uh, or, you know, repair call comes in to a big client, and, you know, guess who's jumping on some refrigeration repair?

Me.

So you don't do that in Armani. Uh, well, you probably should. Um, but don't get twisted, I'm not wearing Armani suits over here. So, so I mean, nowadays it doesn't matter. You know what, decades ago and all the time before that, the quality of your clothes, probably Madam Armani's, were distinctly different. Nowadays, something you get off the rack anywhere, uh, is remarkably good quality. I mean, you know, all the industries have kind of caught up to where there's really no reason to buy that $20,000 suit because the $300 suits are pretty damn good.

You know, I got a closet half full of H&M suits that are less than $100. I usually try and wear a nicer shirt when I wear those.

But all those industries, they just, you know, the— what, I don't know what you call it— the floor of quality has just risen dramatically and it's gotten cheaper to manufacture the, the, you know, the linens that stretch and breathe and all that. So where, where that stuff used to be highly desirable, it's just kind of— same thing. I feel the same way with cars. Like, luxury cars are nice and all, but man, like, a baseline Ford is super luxurious now.

Phenomenal.

Or Honda. So it's kind of like everything's got power, everything, you know, AC, heat, satellite radio, massage seats, you know, heated and cooled.

See, I mean, the touchscreen, everything has that now too. Yeah, leather.

And so, I mean, so, you know, there are differences between a Mercedes and a Toyota, but It's not as dramatic as it used to be.

Yeah, no, I mean, like I said, it's just a personal thing for me where, you know, really we don't have a lot of clients in our office. It's more for mindset, I think, just simply because I had a coach. I played soccer growing up and I had a coach. Are we allowed to cuss on here? No. Not so much.

Go fire away.

I had a coach one time say, if you look like shit, you're gonna play like shit. So come to the field looking like a professional, you know, wear, have your stuff in a bag and, you know, don't be running to the field wearing your cleats. And, you know, as a young man, that kind of stuck with me. If I'm going into an important meeting, I wanna look important. Right. Um, and if I want—

there's books on that. There's books on that whole thought process. And it's funny that a coach told you that because a coach told me that in high school too. Really? Yeah, there's some books.

Must be a coach thing to say.

Yeah, well, they're always, you know, coaches are always reading the self-improvement— well, the good ones are— the self-improvement books and things like that, and always trying to get like little tips on how to, you know, help somebody's life or improve their team, all that kind of stuff. But Um, yeah, there's a, there's a psychological aspect to how you dress of when you, like you said, when you look professional, when you look good, uh, you know, you kind of, your brain kind of gets into that role better, um, than if you show up wearing pajamas.

Yeah, because then your mindset is still on the bed or being at home.

It's more casual, it's laid back, it's easygoing. Um, and sometimes you need to be in that go get it mowed.

War mode. Yeah, let's get after it today. And we have a casual day too, so, um, it wasn't like, you know, every single day was a tie and three-piece suit. Um, some guys wore a three-piece suit and a tie every day, but then most of us took that break when we could get it.

So, I mean, if you like it, you like it, go for it. Yeah, I would do most of my sales meetings, you know, I, I had to keep a change of clothes in my office because I was, you know, we're in Florida, so I was shorts and you know, we had company polos, right? I would just change into some jeans and some, you know, maybe some nicer shoes if I was doing a sales meeting. So, but, you know, most people understood. I mean, I'm in the service. We're hawking vending machines and coffee, you know, we're not, you know, we're an insurance agent or anything that was a little bit more white collar. So there was kind of some expectation there. And if I was ever talking to somebody while I was in like grease-stained shirts, be like, Just so you know, I was just preparing a machine. This is my repair gear, not my— the CEO of a $3 billion company. So give me a little— and most people didn't really care. But, you know, if I was going to a scheduled meeting, I would, I would dress with a little more respect for the situation.

And that's kind of where I'm at, you know. If, if I've been coming out of a long weekend of relaxing and being on the beach or whatever I'm probably gonna wear a suit that Monday. Yeah, you know, just to kind of snap my brain back into, okay, you know, you're not still at the beach, you're at work now, so let's get after it. Um, and it was just, just a small thing, you know. Not everybody, uh, judges people off of what they look like, but I think on first glance, it's like when you're dating, you know, when you go out to a bar and you're looking around, are you looking for the girl rocking the sweatpants at the bar, the one that's dolled up and looks really nice? I'm gonna be more gravitated towards the other, you know, the one that looks nice. So, um, I kind of feel the same way.

Throwing a little bit of law of attraction in there.

Well, when you walk in and you're looking for a certain environment— recruiting is huge in my business So, um, I want people to know that we're out here to change your whole life. I want to impact you significantly. I don't want to just be some fly-by-night job that you have for the next 6 months and then you're on to something else, you know. Sure.

I want you to, to love it.

So your agency now, I'm assuming you represent a bunch of carriers, um, and you do some different lines of business like, you know, car, auto, commercial, home, that jazz.

That's where really my, my hands were kind of held, uh, you know, tight, or whatever you want to call it. At the last place I was at, I would have to let— long story short, it's— it was a medically underwritten plan. So like life insurance, you had to be fairly healthy in order for the insurance company to take you on as a client. Um, so there were some people that I'd talk to them, "I'm so healthy, I'm so healthy, I'm so healthy. I'm not on any medications." And then they look into their medical history and they just came off of 2 antidepressants, all this other stuff. And that person wouldn't get approved. And then I would have nowhere to follow through to actually help them. You got on the phone with me, I tried to help you, that plan didn't work. Now where do we go? From here, and I, I would kind of have to refer that stuff out. So, okay, it is what it is. But so are you—

so you guys primary health insurance then?

Only is— that's what we're doing right now because that's our bread and butter. But like I was saying in the beginning, you know, life, auto.

Sure.

Um, and then that way for recruiting reasons too, I won't just be having to hire, uh, health insurance people. Um, I hire any of the— even if I just do health insurance, I can hire life insurance agents, auto insurance agents, and things like that.

Yep, yep.

So cool. Yeah.

Uh, so you reached out, uh, I can't remember the exact phrase of, uh, I didn't read it before we jumped on this podcast. I probably should have. Was there a particular segment you wanted to go down— or subject matter you wanted to discuss?

Brother, I'm here because I love your page. I think what you're doing is great. I think there's a lot of dads out there that could use— what's the word I'm looking for— use a little bit of support or to know that they're not the only one that's gone through whatever they've gone through. You know, I'm not saying I've been through everything, but I've been through a lot. I figured out a way to get through all the stuff I've been through, much like I'm sure you have. So if I can be kind of a positive outlet for somebody, or if I can be somebody to bounce things off of, or whatever, that's why I wanted to get on here. I'm having a great time. So I was just gonna kind of leave that up to you.

So I think one of the great misconceptions for the dad that's struggling and going through tough times is that, uh, is that the, the dads that are good in their lives right now, they're good in their marriage, they're good with their kids, or, you know, their kids are grown and everything went well, that there were no hard times. I think that's the great misconception, is that, um, you know, you either have like this good, perfect life or you're you and you're a screw-up and you're doing it all wrong and you just can't go right. Uh, and I think if, if, uh, that narrative gets changed a little bit more of that, hey, uh, the guys with good marriages, the guys with great kids and great families went through hell at some point, or even, uh, a little more regularly than you expect. I think that will change a lot of that narrative, um, and encourage some guys to work through those difficulties a little bit more. And not to beat themselves up quite so hard, 'cause—

Well, we do that, right? Like, I think as men, you know, most men, I feel like, have a competitive side to them. So it's almost like, I don't wanna do, personally, I don't wanna do something that, I'm not going to give 100% to. And when I decided to be a— go down this road of dad-dom or whatever you want to call it, um, I had to, I had to make a lot of personal changes. Um, you know, what are you dedicating your time to? Because now you have less of it. Um, are you sitting on Instagram all day or are you trying to spend time with your daughter? For me, the hardest part was turning off work. We all have this thing where, you know, we're supposed to make all this money and we're supposed to be this savage in the business, you know, field and everything like that. And I think that what I've learned and gathered is that part of, in my opinion, maybe the main point of life is Finding a balance, getting out of it, finding a new one, getting out of it, finding a new one. And that's just the way it is. I don't ever wanna tell somebody, oh, I had it easy and I didn't struggle, 'cause that's absolutely not true. I'd say the vast majority of us struggle on a regular basis. I mean, just with different things. We're all in different moods every week. We're all— that can change daily even. No truly successful person that I know of has had an easy road to where whatever success looks like for them, whether it's being a parent or being married for 35 years like my parents, It's all, you're gonna have struggle. You just gotta figure out what the solution is instead of focusing on the problem, you know?

Yep, I mean, that's the great misconception is that other people are having easy lives.

'Cause that's all you see now, right? On social media, it's look how fit I am, look how cool my car is. You don't see the, or look what I achieved at work. You don't see the days where that person was there at 6 in the morning and left at 10 at night, right? You just see the little award that they got.

Yeah. And then, and then on top of that, the fact that, uh, most people think that there's one or two things that could change and then their life would be, would be that easy street, would be perfect if they just, uh, made some more or got this big chunk of money, um, or just made some more money, or, uh, if they just, you know, their wife's not who she used to be, um, you know, the grass looks greener over there. If I just if I just get rid of this girl, you know, life will be so much better.

Um, yeah, and then they leave her and then they're like, man, I wish I had her back.

You know, it doesn't change. Uh, I mean, you look at, uh, you know, celebrities are always a good example because so many of them are just, you know, they're always in their interviews and what they post and all that kind of stuff, they're always talking about, you know, what makes them happy and how life good is and everything. And then Gosh, you know, the ones that are doing that are the ones that have gone through 5, 6, 9, 12, 300 marriages, um, you know, constantly dating, constantly breaking up, uh, like they can't find happiness. They're the ones that are struggling with depression, that are on anti-anxiety meds.

Um, someone told me about the 20% rule. Have you ever heard about that? Uh, everyone's going to be lacking 20% of what you find perfect. So they might be great in all these other categories, and then they might have parental issues from childhood, right? You move on to somebody else, and maybe they don't have the parent issues that used to annoy you, but they drink too much. Or, you know, everybody you interact with— nobody's perfect. Everybody's going to be lacking 20% of perfection, you know.

Um, so yeah, yeah, I think the whole— there is no perfection. I mean, there's just— if you're Christian, you sit there and say Jesus is the perfect example. But, uh, yeah, there's, there's no human, uh, that's even capable of becoming close. The issue being now is that so many people, uh, position themselves and pretend to be perfection. Right? They're the person that's the kindest and the most loving and the most successful and good at everything and the best relationship. And, uh, it's just, it's such a fallacy.

It really is. Um, because I mean, like I said, I just don't know anyone that, that doesn't have any struggle any, you know, indifferences.

It does not— well, not only does it not exist, it's, uh, it's going to make you miserable to think that it's out there and to think that that's what you're trying to achieve. And so it's less about, um, not being in those moments, not being in those things that cause you stress, that cause you frustration, that cause you pain, and more about how you handle yourself when you're in those moments. Because if you're going through life trying to achieve that type of perfection and that type of life to where there are— there's just no pain points, you're just going to be incredibly disappointed your entire life. It's just, it's not going to happen. And so you're going to be that miserable person. You're always going to be somewhat depressed. You're always going to be sad. And if you can just switch the perspective um, it'll change your whole outlook on everything. It'll change the results. And, you know, that's how you live a lot happier. That's why there's so many people that can be, uh, that can be poor, that can be struggling in relationships, that can be dealing with a lot of real crap, whether it's in their career or their personal life or friendships, whatever, um, and yet they're still happy. They can find happiness in those situations, uh, you know, versus people that are in in relatively good situations that are always miserable because they have this unmet expectation that's unrealistic.

Well, and a lot of it is— go ahead.

I was just— I feel like I'm on a soapbox preaching right now.

Hey, amen. Um, I, uh, I forgot what I was gonna say. Post-traumatic growth. Some of the best moments in life come after a super traumatic event. Post-traumatic growth is a real thing. You could be thinking you're at the worst point in your life, da da da da da da, this is so awful, why is this happening to me? And if you keep putting one foot in front of the other, eventually you'll get through that difficult time and you'll kind of look back and say, man, I'm a, I'm a better man because I went through that, you know, and I made it out on the other side. Um, I've learned to kind of embrace difficulty, um, because it's molding me into being a better, a better man for my family, you know.

If you, if you talk to guys that are genuinely the older guys, the old heads, uh, that are happy in their lives, and, and whether, you know, success can be defined multiple different ways, but successful in some, some way or another, but genuinely happy guys, you talk to them, you ask them what they would change in their life, and most of them will say honestly nothing. Like, well, I went through— I went through these hard times, this hard time. Even guys that have been divorced and things like that, um, they say nothing because it made them who they are. And it's that perspective that I think is so important.

It's incredibly important because your life's not over just because you're going through a tough time with your wife or your spouse or your kid or your business or you know, whatever it is, there is always light. You know, you just have to kind of look for it sometimes. You know, when I'm having a tough time at work, I come home and I see my daughter and that's my light for the day. Like, let's say I'm having just an awful day, right? Nothing went my way. Today was an awful day. I can get home And there's a sense of gratitude there, right? Like, I get to have a tough day and come home to a beautiful family and do it all again the next day, you know? And I think if more people would just stop, look around, and really pay attention to all that they really do have, these difficult moments won't be so difficult, right? Because it's just a fleeting moment like anything else.

Yeah, appreciate, appreciate what's in front of you, the real things. I like what you said earlier about just, you know, one foot in front of the other. You know, it's that whole how do you eat an elephant, like, challenging thing. But, you know, the only way to start is take that first bite, then the second, then the third, and eventually you'll chew through it. But yeah, uh, that not freezing up and just pushing forward wherever the struggle is, uh, and whether it's the right direction or the wrong direction. I mean, moving forward is almost the the better thing. It's— but I personally, my belief, it's better to move in the wrong direction, uh, for a little bit. You know, eventually you got to course correct, uh, but it's better to move forward than to just sit stagnant.

Um, I totally agree. Well, you know, in relation to, you know, being dads, I, I feel like, um, that's kind of our role, right? Like, I don't want my daughter to see me give up every time the going gets tough. You know, I want her to look at me as the example and say, "Oh man, my dad, he just doesn't give up. He could, it could be the hardest day, whatever." But again, that's the legacy that I wanna leave behind. I want her to, well, one foot in front of the other, you know, I'll get to the finish line eventually. You know, I might not be first, I might be last, but I'm gonna finish, you know, and that's what really matters.

So yeah, appreciating what's in front of you regardless of the situation you're in was a big one, you know, taking one step forward. Those breathing exercises, they call it battle breathing, which I just learned it was called battle breathing recently. Uh, we did that in college, was really helpful for the, um, for one, like you're really feeling anxious or stressed or just like crap's really going wrong. Uh, we've been working on it with, uh, my oldest kid because he's got, he's got crazy anxiety. Uh, it's kind of like an OCD level. Into that battle breathing of like you hold your breath, tense muscles, and then slowly let it out and slowly release the muscles. It kind of like just drains everything away. They trained us to do that in WVU wrestling. We'd have like a sports psychologist come in and then be like handling the pressures of being a, uh, you know, an athlete and student and all that kind of jazz, and just ways to kind of get control. Uh, and that's That's always been super effective for me.

Breathing exercises.

You, you hold your breath for a few seconds, you know, you breathe in deep, you hold it, and then you let it out slow. Simple breathing exercise. And then you can add to it by tensing up different muscle groups or your entire body, so you can make it a 30-minute progression, or you can just do it once or, you know, over the course of like a minute or two. But yeah, you tense up while you're breathing in, hold it, and then you slowly release the muscles, like relax the muscles as you're breathing out slowly. You just kind of like, you just feel stuff melt away because you're really tensing up and then relaxing it. I think it's just a flood of endorphins that end up hitting your brain and it just, it feels good and it melts stress away. And it's been, we put that out there a few times and we've gotten some really positive feedback from it. Just things I wish that were taught me. I was taught that as an 18-year-old in college and like, I just never thought of anything of it till about a year or two ago when somebody was, I think it was my son. When he was struggling. I'm like, this is something I've just always done. I never realized it. Like, if stuff was getting hard, you know, there was a client that was about to leave, or, uh, you know, just realizing employees don't— like, I never consciously thought about it. Just be one of those, you know, just give me some clarity and I'd move on. Um, and so I was teaching him to that. It was just kind of so ingrained to me at a young age. Um, I forget that other people haven't been exposed to it. Uh, and then I, and then I learned, I was just reading like a year ago, like they teach that in the Special Forces, that battle breathing. So like when you're in the trenches and there's like bullets flying around and grenades being tossed, like that's something they teach you to get composed. Like you breathe in, tense the muscles, let go, and it gives you, it just, it gets some of the, I guess it floods you with endorphins, I think. Um, I don't know the true science behind it. Um, I've read it, I just didn't remember it. Uh, and just helps guys, it just helps guys get their composure. In the moment, you know, right before they gotta, you know, run for cover somewhere. So, or get, you know, jump out shooting, uh, or if they're just starting to panic or, uh, whatever it is, it just, it helps, uh, it helps free the mind up a bit. So it's, it's, it's been a— that's been a really tactical thing. I wish I knew more of them because I'd share them, uh, but I don't.

Hey, simple and effective, right? Sometimes the most effective things are The best.

Yeah.

And the easiest.

Your daughter's 2, what, 2020? So mostly grown up in a, in a, uh, COVID world.

COVID baby for sure. Yeah, all of it. Yeah, she was only like a couple weeks old when that all hit.

So how's that been?

How's—

I guess let's talk about that. Are you, are you guys back to normal life or are you still, uh, do you have a kid that's never met another child before?

Um, I, I would say just like starting from the beginning of when COVID actually hit, let's talk about a difficult moment. I mean, my first kid, just opened this office, and anything that I had like imagined being a parent was gonna be like got completely taken off the board, right? Because when the pandemic first hit, none of us were leaving our house, definitely not going out to dinner. We're not going to the beach here, was even closed. Um, so it was like, oh my gosh, what do I even— what do I even do? I can't take her anywhere, I can't do anything with her.

Um, it's been— it's been kind of a journey, but yeah, now, man We live in Florida. I gotta say, this is the Freedom State, so I love living in Florida.

Um, you know, it sounds like you guys are just back to living normal life, pretty much going to church every Sunday.

Um, you know, yeah, we're back to normal life for the most part. I, I am, uh, cautious about, you know, I'm not going to an indoor concert, right?

I've already done that. I've already done that.

And I see that.

I got another one scheduled in a couple weeks.

It depends on the band, maybe. But yeah, for the most part, man, we're back to normal life and things like that.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, I, I got over it real quick. I was trying to be polite and nice and everything, uh, but I'm one of those guys that's like, hey, you know how you build up your immune system, kid? Here, there's some gum underneath this park bench. You're chewing it for a bit, that'll be good for you.

Um, I'm, I'm with you. I never— I feel like kids these days need a little of that.

Well, this was pre-pandemic. I was just— I mean, there's always been germaphobes and people, you know, we've always been a little bit more cautious with that stuff. Everyone gets more careful in flu season. I just— I've never been that person. I've never wiped my shopping cart down with the—

never.

People were doing that pre-pandemic, uh, man.

I gotta say, I still don't.

Yeah.

And honestly, so we have one cousin that, that has always— complete germaphobe— has always done that, and her kid's sick all the time. So it was kind of one of those things I'm like, see, I feel like you need to be exposed to stuff all the time.

I feel like me and my kids are gonna be little cockroaches.

Like the end of the world's gonna come and we're just gonna be scattering around 'cause nothing's getting through our immune system.

I mean, let's get real though. Like I got COVID 2, geez, like almost 2 years ago, I guess, 2 years ago.

How'd you get it?

I believe I got it from someone in our office. I gotta say too, like I feel like I have a decent immune system. God bless me with that. And I call it pre-sick. So, you know, when you're about to get sick and you're kind of like, oh crap, I'm about to get sick. That's like how I feel. What's that?

You feel it hitting you a little bit?

I could feel it, you know, the night before you're actually sick, you know, and you're starting to get a little chilly and you're just kind of like, oh man, like, I think this could be it. That's kind of how I felt for like 3 days. Um, other than that, man, I've been fine. Everybody in my house has been fine. Um, yeah.

Okay, so you didn't get walloped with it then?

I didn't what?

You didn't get walloped with it?

No, I did not get walloped.

We— so we picked it up New York City, uh, when it first came out.

Uh, go figure.

Yeah, because I had kids like licking the banisters because They're goobers, um, uh, because the youngest one, you know, your youngest kid is always the most stubborn. So if you tell— you say not to do something, they're like, oh, don't push the red button. Yeah. So, and then like my oldest kid's so conscious of everything, he's like, there's so much trash on the ground. It's like, pick up trash and throw in trash can. Like, stop touching all this crap around. He's near Sydney. Like, our immune system isn't designed for the city. We're designed for like nice rural towns. And this was pre-COVID. COVID only existed in Seattle back then. Uh, and then like the day we left New York City, they're like, yeah, we have our first official case. And then the next day they're like, uh, they really didn't have a way to test back then. They're like, we think we might have 10,000 cases. And, um, we got smacked hard. We don't— we just don't get sick. Like, we might get a little bit here and there. Like, one kid might get a flu or cold, but He doesn't run through the family or anything like that. And we all still like climb on top of each other and all that jazz. But yeah, that one walloped us pretty hard, I think. So I don't even take— like, if I have a headache, I don't take Tylenols or Advil. I'm just— I don't like taking stuff.

Uh, dude, we're like the same person. Yeah, yeah. I'm not— I'm not into prescription drugs whatsoever.

I don't even do the over counters. Like, I'm like, I'll deal with it.

I might do an Advil or something. Something like that. I just, with my job, I never really fully was aware of, you know, I've never really been a sick person, so I've never really been on that many medications at once. But some of the people I talk to, you know, because one of the first questions I ask them is, why are you looking? And then, you know, what's your situation? Like, what's going on? Um, and what, what do you need coverage for? And they start getting into all these medications. Well, I took a high blood pressure med and then that gave me a stomach issue. So now I take this for my stomach, and I took that, and now I get recurring migraines. And I'm just like, nah, there's not for me.

There's a crazy amount of meds out there. Um, and the popular thing, uh, at least, you know, in St. Augustine, Florida, is all the, the, uh, the moms, they're taking all these different, uh, medications to stay skinny. And so they get, uh Gosh, I don't know, it's just so easy to get prescriptions. So I think they get the ADHD medications, and I think that helps with something. Then there's something like— is it the ADHD? I don't know, there's something else you can say, it might be anxiety related, but it helps keep you skinny. And so they're popping like 3, 4 different prescriptions just to— and so they're popping these pills. So I will say, um, even though I don't even take Tylenol, there's been real thought— I haven't done it yet, but my wife and I got a buddy that, uh, a PA, uh, and then another friend that's a doctor, um, back in St. Augustine. They're all like, yeah, dude, you have so bad ADHD. If you were to take a, um, crap, I forget what it's called, the ADHD meds back in my day, they were like, it would change your life. And I'm so against that kind of stuff that like now living in an RV, I'm almost like, maybe I just need to start popping one of those every once in a while just so I can get some work done while y'all are climbing over top of me.

I took Adderall for a little while. It was good and not good at the same time.

Does it— did it change who you were almost at home?

No, I don't think it changed who I was because I didn't take it when I was at home. I would take like 5 milligrams a day, which is like nothing. What I found was I was too focused on everything. So like little easy tasks, you know, cleaning the counter, that's a 2-minute, minute-long task that would take take me 5, 10 minutes, right?

Okay.

Um, I don't remember the last time I cleaned the counter, but I'm just thinking of simple tasks, right? You know, going through your email or typing an email. Sometimes it's better to just get it all out and get it out there. When I would take that, I would just— everything had to be perfect, and you know, this and the other thing, and it made me, uh, just wordy when I was on the phone. I'm gonna just be talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, no breath.

So I had a buddy who I think his family occurs, and he's well into his 20s at this point, but he's like, like, I think I'm ADD, he's like a whole different level. He genuinely is like madness. Um, uh, but his family wanted him to take it and he did, and his wife made him stop because while he, like, it almost changed him into a different person. While he was super focused at work and everything and much more attentive and could actually focus on the project at hand instead of being scatterbrained. Um, at home, he just— I think, what did she say, something along the lines of like, I married this great, fun, spontaneous guy and you're not him anymore. Like, you don't play with the kids as much anymore. Um, you're not as, you know, laughing and telling jokes and happy-go-lucky. And so it really just kind of changed who he was. And so he just decided to say, you know, he just— he'll let his, I guess, career kind sacrifice that aspect of it and be a little bit more jump-brained so he's a better father and a better husband at home, or at least more genuine to the personality she married, if that makes sense.

It does, it makes total sense. That's why, um, well, and for me, like, just related to what we're talking about, you know, I didn't like taking it. I liked how I performed when I took it, but I would take a small amount that would last me, let's call it, 6, 7 hours, and then after that, when I was at home, I I don't need it. I don't need to be focused. I just need to be engaged with my family. And that's it. I don't need any enhancements, if you will.

So I'm assuming people abuse it and use it like all these moms back home.

Oh dude, it's unbelievable. Well, like I can remember being in high school when Adderall first came out. There was so many—

What is it used for?

You know, it's a party drug too. Think about it. You take it, instead of taking it in the morning to go to work, if you took it at 10 o'clock at night, you could go out, be awake, and whatever you want to call it, all night. That's when I— whenever I've seen people abuse it, that's what they do.

So it's like— so it's a stimulant?

Oh yeah, for sure.

Oh, so it's like caffeine, like kind of like a caffeination effect?

Yes, you get a little— like you get a little sweatier depending on how much you take, or, um, interesting.

Yeah.

For sure. And that's like I said, that's when— whenever I've seen people abuse it, they're doing it like at night to like go out. It would almost be like a, like a cocaine type of effect.

Okay, I just was never in the drug scene, so I just don't know. Um, me either. Cocaine makes you feel like Superman, so just don't go to the top of a tall building because you'll think you can fly. So we had people telling us, um, that it was irresponsible for us to leave on tour, uh, until COVID was over. I'm like, man, if we had listened to them, we'd still be at home. We would have never left. We've done, we've done like 50,000 miles, like endless cities, um, like 40 states.

Some people are just so scared of everything, and, and, you know, you tell them, hey, you should be scared of this, and then they're scared. They're like petrified. I don't know, I'm just not gonna live the rest of my life like that. Obviously I'm respectful of others. If you ask me to wear a mask, I'm gonna wear a mask.

I, I was respectful of others. I'm getting to the point where I don't even respect others anymore because it's gone to— I just, I don't care anymore. I just genuinely don't. Like the whole airplane thing of wearing—

Florida, nobody down here is— we're not doing this craziness you see all over the internet.

Like, there's people wearing There's a few places here and there that are doing it, um, but yeah, for the most part it's, it's not happening. It's the airlines that like that. I haven't been on an airline, but like the fact that you have to wear a mask on the plane and then the second everyone gets off and is outside we all take it off. So we're hanging around each other and then when we go inside we put on the mask. It—

gosh, we were doing literally zero sense.

Yeah, we were on a tour We were on a tour somewhere, I can't quite remember, but like we're all hanging out, we're compressed like in a sardine can, um, but then when we got on the buses we had to put on a mask and we're like, but we're like on top of each other outside of it. So it, it just— I'm not sure why, I'm not sure why some of the rules are there anymore. Like it's almost like because it doesn't have any true meaning behind it. Because when we're all together without a mask in one spot and hanging out and close and hugging all the time, it's like we— you've seen memes with the NFL, um, uh, going around lately where like the quarterback and the reporter are doing the interview for TV and they're like 6 feet apart, then the interview ends and then you have footage of everyone else filming them and they go up and hug each other and talk to each other like 1 foot away. Like, it's— I, I don't understand what we're doing. Or that the fact that like The whole NFL players having to wear masks on the sideline of the games last year, but then when they're playing they don't, and they're tackling each other, they're holding, they're right next to each other in the same space when they're practicing with each other, and like half the time they're not wearing—

they're—

you are like face to face all the time with everyone. You're showering together, you're in locker rooms right next to each other. Yeah, it's— it— so stuff like that is like, but why is this rule a rule? Like, there's no real practicality here. Like, I get— so the argument of do masks work, they not work, completely irrelevant if we're wearing them here but not here. It's, it's a stupid rule. Like, why are we enforcing it here but not here?

Uh, right.

Well, so yeah, so that whole thing, I'm just— I, I've stopped being the considerate person anymore. I just, I don't, I don't wear it anymore. Um, every once in a while someone— for the most part, no one says anything anymore because I, I think even the, even the employees that are supposed to enforce it just don't care anymore because I think most of them don't want to say the wrong thing and have someone— you don't want to trigger anybody. Yeah, yeah, I did that. And I'm not the guy to fight. I would just walk out. Um, but yeah, I just, I've stopped caring.

I've just stopped caring. I don't care.

It's been too long and too much.

You're gonna hassle me about wearing a mask in here. I'm gonna be in here in the store for 3 minutes getting shaving cream. I don't, I don't want to argue with you. I don't even frankly really want to talk to you. Um, so I'll just throw my thing on real quick, get my stuff, and then I'm gone. You know, whatever, no big deal. These people though that have like meltdowns over this stuff though, it's like—

and that's both directions, meltdowns because you're asking me to wear a mask and meltdowns because you're not wearing, you know, both sides are having those crazy and I think they're both idiots.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, yeah, that's— I mean, that's just, you know, you defuse a situation. Like, I'm not going to be the guy that's going to be screaming and yelling at somebody. It's because here's the whole thing, it's, it's like the Democratic-Republican argument. All your fights, all your arguments, all your complaints and yelling at each other in social media posts— you have never— a Republican has never changed a Democrat's mind with a social media post, with an argument, with a fight, and a Democrat has never changed a Republican's mind the same way. So why are you having this discussion? You're like, your blood's boiling for zero gain, for zero purpose.

Yes, your blood's boiling because you're never gonna convince this guy that your point is the right point.

Never. Maybe a civil discussion where you can, but no one's gonna do that.

So, well, I think some of us that are— I think that's what's awesome about America, right? Like, I, I get to have a different opinion than you. Um, we get to have similar opinions, we get to believe different things, but we can also believe a lot of the same things, you know? But I think when people start trying to like enforce that their perspective is the right perspective—

I mean, is there a right perspective anymore?

You know, like, who You know, you know, it's funny. So we've done a lot of—

you're right, you're wrong anymore. Like, it's just not— there's so many different opinions out there, you just got to take it for what it is.

Well, and there's lack of tolerance for other opinions. But so we've done a lot of traveling the last couple years, met a ton of people, uh, face-to-face conversations. Uh, we have a ton of them, and we're always on the same page with those people. Um, when I engage with someone one-on-one, or, you know, it's my wife, even if we're different politically, like, we almost agree on everything as far as, you know, how to treat people, what's wrong, what's right, you know, how we're raising our kids. Not everything in detailed mode, but like on the, on the big picture, we're kind of all on the same page. We get along, we have a good relationship. It's when people start posting on social media that it seems a whole lot more polarized. And when you look at the country, you look at the news and things like that, it feels a whole lot more polarized. Um, but when it's a person talking to a person, I just— we just met so many people, and I know they vote differently than me. On the surface, we shouldn't get along, but we get along, and we agree on most things. It's just— it's been a strange perspective of, you know, when we're face to face, we all get along, but when we're— we've got a lens or a screen between us, it becomes such a vicious conversation. And, and incredibly polarized. I don't have any, um, solution or fix to that, or, you know, psychological understanding of it. That's been the reality.

Strange. All of it's very strange.

We've met a ton of people, we have civil conversations, we become friends with just about everyone, uh, we stay in contact, we like each other, and we're not the same politically. We're not the same, you know, even on the— mostly with COVID uh, because people that are at RV parks and that are out at national parks hiking you know, that are out at restaurants. Wherever we meet people, they're out doing stuff. So they're— I guess they're probably more on the same COVID side as us, you know. They're not hunkered down in the house because I would have never met them. So I've never met those people that are isolating to that extreme, especially still, you know. So maybe that's the difference. Maybe the people that like to get out in nature and get out and exercise and do stuff, maybe that's why we're all on the same page. But we've yet to get in a single fight with somebody or argument or, you know, walked away saying we really don't like these people or something like that.

Um, because I'm not gonna— I'm not gonna get offended because we're different, you know? Or maybe we're not different, but our opinions on certain topics are different and things like that.

Sure.

I'm always— I'm always open to having my mind changed about something. You can change my mind, go for it. And I'm open because everything you're saying I don't agree with, but maybe a little piece of it I might add to how I You know, well, that's the thing, and maybe that's that 80/20 rule you were talking about earlier.

So there's things we don't agree on, but there's other things we do agree on. So we actually like each other. It's just these things over here we just don't agree with. We can still talk about—

yeah, you can have— one of my best friends is very liberal and I'm not, but we've been friends for 25 years, you know. Um, one of my best— one of the best people I've ever met in my life.

Face to face, it's all different than behind the screen. But yeah, there's all those fights and yelling, and I just, I see zero value in, uh, in it. No, this is why I don't know. I'm not going to argue with somebody over, especially when you talk, especially when you're with the, at the employee level. Like, I'm not going to argue with the hostess at a restaurant over their mask policy. Do you think, first of all, she had nothing to do with it?

Yeah, she's just trying to make money and go home.

This is irrelevant. Well, that same thing on social media. I mean, you get into the comments section and you read them sometimes, you're Like, why are you people arguing back and forth? I don't, I don't understand. They're— neither one of you have gained anything from this.

I stay out of the comments on those posts. I stay out.

Oh, I love them. I love them. And if I wish, I wish I didn't have— I wish I had a fake account or like a different— like I wasn't like a persona where I can be recognized because be the guy that, um, adds fuel to the fires and things like that. It just makes the conversations way— you can tell people that are out there just doing that because, you know, why not? No one, you know, gives a crap about what they say. But if I say something as 100% dad just to be devil's advocate or, you know, add fuel to a fire or just mess with somebody, that's not going to go well for me. So I try—

you got a bit of a following that I would protect, you know.

So I try not to stir up too much controversy. It's one of the reasons I haven't done like a Facebook group or a chat forum or anything. It's like there's gonna be so many bullcrap answers. That gets thrown his way. Because I've seen those forums. I mean, guys, there's one called— I think it was called A Bunch of Dads. I was on it for about 5 minutes and I was like, my gosh, like, the, the comments are horrendous. But most of them are jokes, you know. They don't actually expect you— hey, your wife wants you to do the dishes? Um, yeah, is her mother— is her mother hot? Yeah, go bang her. That'll teach her to ask you to do the dishes. This is not— this is not facilitating productive conversation. Super entertaining.

Mean, but not productive, like whatever.

But yeah, or just wild and out there. And, and then you have, then you have the responses to those comments of like people that thought it was a serious comment versus people who thought it was a joke, or, you know, the context was, or it was taken out of context. I mean, those things go a million different ways.

Um, I'll just read them. I'm staying out.

That's, that's the thing. So, so it ends up really not helping. Um, because even if you ask a question like, hey, what should I do in this scenario? If you're a struggling dad that really is genuinely asking a question, you're going to get 500 answers. You know, 200 do this, 200 do that, and then 100 that are jokes and messing with you. Um, and so you really didn't get any good clarity because you don't know the person that's giving the advice. You don't know the— you don't usually don't know the context of the situation, but you don't get an answer. There's no clear-cut in a chat forum. Well, that drives me— I wish we could foster it.

If you're talking about life stuff, is there really like one clear answer? I think that—

well, no, but here's the thing. If you talk about, um, the fact that you're struggling in your marriage, every dad that's going through a divorce or is going through a divorce or is thinking about that is going to sit there, divorce her ass, you got to get rid of her, she's a weight, she's baggage, she's toxic, get rid of And then guys that have worked through those struggles are going to be sitting there saying, hey, like, put some effort into this, you know, try and work through it, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Then you got the single dads like, you know, why would you ever get married? That's a stupid thing. That's an institution that holds you back. And so you just, you get so many, so much different that the guy that was asking what he should do in that situation for his relationship that's struggling didn't get any good answers. Maybe there's good answers, He's just got a smorgasbord of everything. I just, I feel like they're not helpful. So that's the reason we haven't done one. We haven't done like a forum or chat group concept is because I feel like it's going to get out of control, especially with guys, because they, they tend to lean heavy towards comedy, um, and stirring up trouble.

Well, and I feel like your page is a little bit more, uh, wholesome and, uh, whatnot. So yeah, you don't— I mean, when you're talking about branding, you don't want to be having chat forums that are—

yeah, exactly—

off-brand or talking about topics that you wouldn't really condone or promote on this page, you know?

Yeah, so that's— yeah, that's been the whole, the whole theory. So because the community would be fun, I just don't know how to— especially being on the road, I wouldn't know how to moderate it. Like, there's just— I mean, there are many times out west I went 2, 3 weeks without even a cell phone signal. So I would have no idea what's going on.

And then you get back to your phone and you're like, oh my gosh.

Yeah, yeah, that gets fun. So you're married. How long you been married? 5, almost 6 years. How'd y'all meet?

Tinder. I swiped right. I was ready to get married. I'm ready to kind of like, uh, start that whole deal, get a house, do all of that.

Tinder, Tinder was holding you back from getting a house?

No, I mean, I'm in a house in an aspect of like a home.

A home.

I wanted a home, not a house. Yeah, I was about to give up and then my wife came through. She was more than patient with me. Didn't exactly want to get into a super serious relationship with anybody else until I was sure that that's who I was going to end up with. So that, that took some time. And, uh, here we are, 6 years going on 6 years later.

So what was the first date?

First date was at my little bachelor pad apartment.

Cheapskate.

I, I, I was in between jobs. I was so broke, man. I'm just remembering how broke I was. I mean, showering with Dawn dish soap.

What were you doing as a career? That was pre-insurance, I'm assuming.

I was, yes, I was a landscape designer for a little while. Um, about 10 years. This was before the design part. This was like, I was just out there cutting grass and doing the whole thing. She came, I invited her. We had talked for like 2 or 3 weeks every day. I was kind of raised, if you're going to take a woman on a date, you should pay. You should pay. I didn't have any money or enough to pay for both of us. So I was kind of, I had another job like, uh, lined up where I was going to be making a little bit more money, but that hadn't come up yet when we met. So Invited her over for pizza and beer at my apartment. And luckily she came. And yeah, it was kind of an embarrassing date, man. I had no washer or dryer at my apartment at the time. And I had like a little laundromat like at the end of my block, like through the alley. I lived down in the city. I had nothing to wear. I got home from work. I was like, oh my gosh. Everything's dirty. So I'm running back and forth, like getting ready for this date. And I got ready like right before I finished getting ready, like right before she got there. I can remember sitting there, we're on my couch, we're kind of like talking. It's the first time we've met in person. I felt like a bead of sweat, like roll down my face. And I looked at her and I was like, "I'm not normally this sweaty. I've just been running back and forth. Like, don't think I'm weird." So to this day, we still kind of have a good laugh about that one.

That's nice. A little starter from the bottom. Now we're here.

Yeah, I was just sweaty and nervous, and somehow she, she made it to day 2, or I made it to day 2.

Uh, so I did construction for a summer, uh, my— after my freshman year of college, and landscape guys were kind of in that same scene. It's kind of similar, uh, very blue collar. Kind of a rough crowd. Not all of them, but, you know, a lot of them. But the patterns were all the same. It's a wake up early kind of job. You get to— I don't know, were you in a crew or did you do it on your own?

So I was, I was an account manager, so I wasn't like you're saying. Maybe one, this guy calls in today and I might be out on the crew for that day. Okay, next day I might be in my own truck. By majority of the time, I was in my own truck by myself, kind of, uh, overseeing the different jobs and stuff.

Okay, so, so you weren't necessarily, you know, on the mower every single day? Uh, not every day, but so, so you know this scenario though, because the construction guys do the same thing. They pretty much start out the same way. You get up early, you go, you get your assignments or whatever, you pretty much know what you're going to do, but you kind of gather at the main building "Get in your trucks and all get your tools." Yeah. And then, and then you head out and the first stop is a convenience store. So everyone, every construction truck in the fricking country goes to convenience store. Same with the landscaping guys. They all, and they, they get a, a big heavy greasy breakfast. They get coffee, you know, they get fuel, gas, whatever you need. But it always amazed me that, you know, these guys were always spending like $10 in the morning for breakfast. And then, uh, come lunch hour, they take an hour off of work that you don't get paid for, uh, which I always hated. Um, I always brought my peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with me, uh, like in a brown bag.

Give me the time, give me that hour, right?

I would happily work. I'll keep moving, like I can bite a sandwich while I'm moving stuff, uh, because I was labor, you know. I wasn't— I wasn't laying block, I was taking the block to the foreman and making sure, you know, he never ran out of mud and block. So I could keep doing it. But yeah, so anyway, so we were all off clock for an hour. They would always go to Sonny's Barbecue or somewhere, and then they would spend like $15, you know, $20 at lunch. And I'd sit there at the table with my peanut butter and jelly, or sometimes I stay behind at the site like in a shade spot. And then after work, what's the next stop? Convenience store, back at it. And then you get a case of beer, you know, maybe some more beef jerky or meats, whatever, hot dogs, I don't know. And you spend another like $15, $20 And it just blew my mind, uh, that these guys are spending $10 in the morning and then not getting paid, you know, let's call it $15 an hour, not getting paid $15 for an hour, going to spend $15 or $20 on lunch, and then after work blowing another $10, $20. And I, you know, in the mornings and even— I never bought a thing at the convenience store. It just blew my mind how many hours they worked in that day just so they could work that day. Does that make sense?

It totally makes sense.

Like, if they're making— if they're making $15 an hour and they spend $15 at breakfast, lunch, and after work, so that's 3 hours of work they had to do just while they were at work, just to— just to make up for what they spent while at work. And then they didn't work an hour on lunch. That was like 4 hours of the day. Just— what was the point?

Yeah.

It blew my mind.

I don't understand.

Now obviously some of those guys, the Masons guys, have been there— they're making a whole lot more than that, you know, they're making $30, $40 an hour. Um, but still, it was just— it was such an incredible spend. And then the other thing that blew my mind is I don't understand why we have to buy it at the convenience store. Like, go down to Walmart, buddy, the beer is cheaper. Like, you don't have to buy it at 30-pack instead of a 24.

Or it was—

it was a mentality I could not handle. And then The language was incredibly crude. The topics of discussion were just blew my mind. I was just, I was very sheltered, I think. So I learned a lot.

Um, I like guys I was dealing with were, were, uh, Spanish of some sort. And, uh, I didn't speak a lick of Spanish in the beginning. Now, now I'm halfway decent, but you know, in the beginning it's like I'm just in the truck you know, um, nobody's talking. Nobody— they're all talking, but I have no clue what they're talking about. So I'm just kind of driving, you know.

But yeah, that— those convenience store trips is— I, I could— I, I just couldn't get to that mentality. I couldn't understand it. And I think I even brought it up to a few of them that like, I don't understand why we do this. It was just like, that's what we do. Oh, then the cigarettes too. They're all buying cigarettes as well, and then, uh, chew. I'm like, man, there's just so much money going to these convenience stores. Like, even back then I'm like, I just—

cigarettes is like, what, what is it? I'm pretty sure it's like $10 or something some places.

Yeah, I don't know, maybe. And then chew, of course, you know, was that $3, $4?

Um, probably around the same, man. I mean, depends on, you know, just name brand versus whatever. I mean, I'm sure there's $10, $10, uh, dip out there as well.

I couldn't get past it. It just— but I liked the construction. I liked the work. I just didn't like the crowd. That was my thing. Because it is immensely satisfying to do that kind of like very hard work and like to see something built. Like, it's such a tangible result to your efforts. It was just— it was really cool. But I did not stick with it. I was like, I did— I did my one summer.

It's hot.

The Florida summers were blazing.

But what's the movie? What's the movie on repeat right now? That the kids are watching?

I, I— so I don't know what they watch in the back because they have their own TVs and headsets, so I don't hear it. Uh, so they, they just— they, they keep like a small, like one of those CD books, CD binders. Yeah. And they'll, they'll switch them out with the, the CDs or the DVDs in the, the RV, and those kind of keep them fresh. I don't know, they've really got into Home Alone for a while.

Um, that's a good one, man. That's a classic.

So yeah, we're turning them on to classics. That way if I have to watch it, um, I can.

If I have to watch Trolls or Frozen—

so back when we had a different truck, like, I, I would have to listen to what they're watching. And so we would drive to like our farm in West Virginia from Florida, which is 13 hours. Yeah, really 14, 15 hours with the— with young kids because they got to pee every 7 minutes. That move— yeah, then that was when Frozen first came out, and I had to listen to Frozen like 3, 4 times on the way up and 3, 4 times on the way back. I don't get to watch the movie. And my wife would sit in the back with the kids because, you know, why should she sit up front when there's a movie playing in the back? But that was like, it would, it would use the car's audio system, um, so you'd have to sit there and just listen to the whole thing.

You can recite it, yeah, but you can't tell.

That's funny.

Yeah, so for a long time that was one, and there were a couple others. I just can't remember.

That almost be like, that almost might be more torturous than having to watch the movie repetitively over and over and over.

Yeah. I, I like the fact that now they have their own movie player. They're both— they're like, the headrests are the movie players. Um, they can watch separate movies or they can watch one and they sit together. They each, they each have their own headphones. Um, you know, so they can listen, they can switch them back and forth between the different screens, they can do whatever they want, and I don't have to deal with it. I can just drive this giant RV without being stressed on what's going on in the back. Uh, that was the theory. Now that we're like 2 years into doing this, they, you know, the movies are less cool and less attention-getting than they used to be, uh, you know. So sometimes there's still arguments and fights over what they're watching and all that kind of— we had, we had to do a rule of there's no special features, like you can't go into the deleted scenes and stuff while we're in the car because that always caused a fight, you know. I don't want to watch the deleted scenes. Well, I do, you know. And so because they get to switch, um, the oldest two— the youngest really gets his own TV, he does whatever he wants. Um, the oldest two, they switch back and forth. Like, you get a movie once, then you get the movie. And they're different ages, so they want to watch different things sometimes, even though they all like the same stuff. If it was Levi's turn to pick a movie, he would want to watch all the special features and deleted scenes, and you know, that was his turn. And so it could extend his turn into a long time. And so the other kid's fighting because he wants to watch a different movie. And then he'll try and do the same thing with deleted scenes and special features and bonus cuts and director's versions. And so it was causing so many fights in the back that, you know, the reason we put these TVs in there was so Dad can drive this RV without fights going on in the back and being distracted because I don't want to kill us. Uh, so yeah, now there's, there's a firm rule of no special features, no deleted scenes. You watch the movie, play start to finish, and that's it. Yeah, so it's weird the rules you have to come up with as a parent. All right. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the podcast. We're running crazy. I'm sure you got to do some work eventually today.

Yeah, yeah, I do. It was good.

Absolutely. Same here. Have a good one. See ya. Yep, bye. This is 100% Dad. Find our current tour schedule on 100dad.com, 100dad.com, on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and more @100dad, 100dad. Email Townsend at 100dad.com.