S3:E6 Interviews with Dads - Georgia Realtor - New Dad- Joseph Kalina

100% Dad podcast interviews with dads. Joseph Kalina, I believe a new dad. Is that right? Dad of one?

Yeah, uh, boy number one. Had him about 13 months ago.

Oh, COVID baby.

Yep.

Uh, married?

Yep.

How long?

We've been married about 4 years now.

Okay, so married a couple years before, uh, having the kids— having the kid. Uh, what's the plan? 1, 2, 3, 4, 100?

The plan is 2.

What kind of spacing in between?

We plan to go to Scotland this summer for a Scot— a legit Scot wedding up in the, uh—

oh, okay, not your wedding, somebody else's.

Not, not our wedding, no. One of our friends, uh, who's marrying a legit Scot, and they they moved to Scotland, and he's from the North Islands. I forgot what they're called, but it's going, um, toward the, the Nordic region. And we got invited to this wedding, and I said, hell yeah, it's going to be like a traditional— like, they're going to be wearing kilts, all the legitimate Scottish stuff. So anyways, after that wedding, we're gonna work on baby number 2.

I feel like destination weddings are a way of saying, we don't want you to come.

Probably. I mean, they're a pain in the ass for sure. But these people, they're really nice. And I've always wanted to go to Scotland. I think it's like one of the coolest places.

Yeah, that's one of the places I want to go to. What do you do for a living?

I am in residential real estate sales here in Gwinnett County, Georgia. It's me and my brother. We own our own team. And I'm going to do a shameless plug here. Kalina Brothers. Up in, uh, Gwinnett County, Georgia, right outside of Atlanta.

Uh, south of Atlanta, right? South and east?

No, it's, uh, north, northeast.

That was close. It was somewhere around Atlanta.

And you're from Florida, right?

St. Augustine, Florida.

Quite a bit of friends down in Fort Lauderdale and that whole area, Miami.

We don't consider Miami— I say this all the time, uh, Floridians don't consider Miami part of Florida. Miami's Miami.

Miami's Cuba.

Yeah, they do their own thing down there. We just let them.

Well, of course, being in Georgia, our vacation spot is the Panhandle. That's where we go every year since I was a little kid.

So I always— I was in— I was on the other coast. I was on the Atlantic. So we— I had no reason to go to the Panhandle, um, or the west coast of Florida. You know, we do Tampa and stuff like that, but not the beach because all our beaches were better. And so we— I just went to the Panhandle as a beach tourist about a month ago, and I actually really liked it. It's pretty beach, so it's all that white sand from the quartz, and, uh, they actually have waves, which they don't have in like the west side of Florida, uh, right? But they have them up there, so it was a nice area.

It's beautiful, man. If you go to some of those little towns off the beaten path near, uh, Alabama, go to the non-touristy parts, it's it's really nice. You could have a good relaxing time with your family.

All right, so you had your first kid in COVID. How's that experience been so far?

It's been life-changing, as you know, any new dad would have it. Um, during COVID I mean, it really didn't make that much of a difference because I'm one of those who's not afraid. I ain't scared.

So you be in the hospital?

Yeah. So We had— when we had him, uh, we were allowed to be in the hospital. We couldn't have family, so it was visitors, literally just me and my wife during that time. I actually almost like that even better, Townsend. I mean, it was a great bonding experience with my wife, you know. It was something that we both had never experienced, was completely new, and we were both, you know, scared and excited all at the same time. And, uh, It was a very beautiful time. I actually, when my wife was in labor, uh, I looked up some guided pregnancy meditation on YouTube and I, I guided her through meditation during that time. And, uh, and then on a speaker on my beatbox, wherever it is, I played, uh, some really good, like, some of our favorite worship songs, uh, while she was delivering. So it was, it was a really beautiful experience.

Cool. So it was normal, uh, normal delivery, no cesareans or anything like that, and it was in a hospital, so it wasn't at home. Okay, sorry, I'm just running through some things in my head. I want to backtrack a minute. Have you— so pre-marriage, did you guys talk about, um, how many kids you wanted and the spacing and, you know, how you wanted to raise them, things like that? Or has that been something you guys are figuring out on the fly?

Yeah, uh, a little bit of both, because before, in my mid-20s— I'm, I'm 34 now, but in my mid to late 20s, that's when I started having a lot of self-discovery and revelations, um, within myself. Like, when Lindsay and I— Lindsay's my wife, by the way— uh, when we first started dating, I was the kind of guy where I, I told her, like, I'm never gonna get married or have kids. And I said, that's, that's just not me. Yeah. And I was one of those guys. Just throughout that time, really, like I said, my mid-20s was when I really got on this path of self-development and got into real estate, you know, started reading the right books, hanging out with the right people. And I just realized that, you know what, it's okay to get married to somebody you love. It's okay to take that step and have a kid and make your life beyond yourself, which was the biggest epiphany I had once I got on this path. And that's when I really started looking at life a different way. I kind of renewed my faith, started going back to church, looking for different groups and people to hang out with. I mean, shoot, like your group, like Dad 100% Dad. And just, you know, getting involved and associating with people like yourself who are out to, uh, really make the world a better place, uh, and by realizing it's not just about you.

Sounds good. Sounds like you're, uh, putting a, putting a lot of positive in your life and, and trying to make improvements in a lot of different aspects of your life.

Yeah, and succeeded, because, uh, you know, once you're okay with that— really kind of why I want to come on here today too is just let other dads and new dads and people who are on the edge of having kids. One of my friends, he just got married, and he was telling me how, you know, I said, are you gonna have kids? And he said, man, I want to, but I'm so scared that I just, I don't even know if that's for me. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, well, my dad made a lot of mistakes and was such a jerk to me growing up that I'm afraid of that happening to my kid and me being that. And I told him, that's an interesting thought, but I think the very, the very thing that— the reason why you said that to me, I think shows that you have enough awareness that that's not going to happen. And honestly, I think you should have kids and be a dad.

People that have bad dads that are bad dads, but they don't recognize that usually, right? Certainly, certainly not to that level where they're thinking of just not having any because of that. And then there's guys that had bad dads that, uh, are changing the narrative and are— and learned how to not be a dad. Um, and so they go the opposite way and make genuine try, uh, genuine strides in changing that family tree.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, even like with my dad, my dad was a great dad. There were things that I think could have been done differently now that I have that knowledge I will do those things differently with my kid, you know. And I'm sure there's things that we all do, and that's it.

And that's every situation in every relationship. You take the good out and you try and replicate it, and you look at the bad and say, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna get rid of those things or make, make some dramatic changes there. And I feel that way with, gosh, so many friendships, so many people I admire, to where I admire certain things about them, maybe their business skills maybe their family skills, uh, maybe their faith, but not all three at the same time, if that makes sense. They're good at one or two of those things and maybe they're failing in the others, but just because they're failing in that section of their life doesn't mean that you can't appreciate and like and admire and respect and even want to replicate what they've done in this aspect of their lives. Um, and that's something I think a lot of people are just, they throw someone down and discount them entirely because of one failure in their life or in one section of their life, which is disappointing.

That's interesting to say. Uh, so you're saying somebody could be good at— let's just say they're good at being a dad, but maybe they're not so good at their business, or vice versa. They're really good at their business, they're building this million-dollar company, but maybe they're not home to really raise their kid or teach their kid certain things.

100%. And I mean, I have genuine friends of mine that are, that are in insanely good dads who suck at business, maybe suck at managing their personal finances, um, but they're really good dads. And like, those quality traits I admire, and I even copy some of those. I mean, there's some things they do as a dad that are, uh, that are admirable and copy-worthy, but I don't copy them in their, in their personal finance side of their life or their business side, and vice versa. You know, there's tons of men out there building great businesses and almost ignoring their fatherhood duties or their husband duties. And I mean, you can even tie that closer and go less dramatic between business and fatherhood and great fathers, not great husbands, or great husbands, not great fathers.

Yeah. So I'm glad you brought that up because that kind of brings me back to— I wrote a few little talking points here just to, you know, loosely go over. And one thing I think is important to being a good dad or a foundation right? Because like the Bible, you want to build on rock, not on sand. You want to have a strong foundation. Um, and one of those when it comes to being a dad is being a good husband, because when you have a good relationship with your wife, your kids are going to see that. You have 3 kids, right?

Yep.

Pretty sure. Was that planned? Did you guys always say 3 kids?

By me? Yeah, yeah, it was always in that 3 to 4 range. Um, Rye didn't have great pregnancies. They were difficult for her. So after the second one, she kind of wanted to be done, and I kind of didn't. And, uh, she thought she was done, and then we weren't. So after the third one, she, she got tied off. Uh, yeah. And then, you know, we always just kind of said, you know, adoption's not out of the question. Uh, but at the same time, it wasn't something I was feeling uh, led to do. So we didn't. So we have the 3. I could have, I could have genuinely gone for 7, 8, 9, 10 kids. It would have been— I would have been a-okay with that. That's something we talked about. But yeah, and I'm in no way disappointed that we don't have that many. It's something we talked about, you know, even before we got married. Yeah, I definitely want a few kids. Don't mind if we decide to have a bunch. Um, and she wasn't— she was not against that either. Uh, Well, you know, we always said 3, 4 is probably the appropriate range for us.

Uh, how many siblings do you have?

Me? I have, uh, I never really lived with them. I lived with a few of them, but for short periods of time. Yeah, I've got, I've got an older sister, uh, a younger sister, and a younger brother. And so 2 of them are half, 2 of them are halves, and, uh, one's full. Uh, but I never lived with them for long significant periods of time. Like, we're Like my brother, I was out of the house by the time he was like 2, 3 years old, so it was almost like I visited him, um, at times. And we lived, you know, he, he grew up in Maryland, I was living in Florida, so that's a big, big, uh, age gap. Oh well, it was a big, what, maybe 12-year age gap. Okay. And, and just proximity, you know, uh, we're just far away. And, uh, even with my full, full sister, so she's, uh We're about 2 and a half years apart and, you know, it was just kind of custody things of jumping back and forth. So I don't think I ever lived with her for more than like 2 years in a row. I'd have to go back and think about that. But so we really didn't grow up together, but they were there, if that makes sense.

So all of your kids are growing up together.

Oh my gosh. They're close and in the same room. I mean, best friends, mortal enemies, close as, close as fingers to these, I guess. Is what you would say.

Yeah. So I have two brothers, one older, one younger, and we're all a few years apart. So we grew up— it sounds like your kids are growing up— like we were best friends, mortal enemies.

Yeah.

But, uh, and that's why, you know, ultimately I choose to work with my brother because—

oh, you left one of them out though. Uh, we did. Yeah, you guys grew up in the same household?

We did. Yeah. I mean, there was a while there when we were growing up when all three of us were three boys, uh, we all shared one bedroom growing up. Kids these days, they don't even know.

Yeah, well, so in our house, uh, we, we had a three-bedroom, two-bath, uh, but they all stayed in one room, uh, it was just kind of how, like, by the time that, you know, once the crib phase was done, uh, they had a triple bunk, and then we had the other bedroom as like a guest room slash office, and they would always kind of get brave every once in a while and want to go like be independent, like the oldest one would, and then the other ones would. And most of the time when we got up in the morning, they were back in their room because they just didn't want to sleep alone. It was— they're so used to their brothers now, uh, we're probably handicapping them to a bit, right?

Right, the dependency and all that. So do you have— when you had your kids, did you have experience with kids like I, you know, we have friends with kids that had— sure, nieces and nephews and all that. Where in my family, me and my wife, this is— we are the first ones in both of our families to have a kid. So it's completely different for us. But a lot of our friends had experience through family, cousins, all that, right?

So we didn't have family or cousins or anything like that, um, having kids. We were really the first, um, even to this day, you know, on both sides. We, we are the only ones with the grandkids. Like, there's no other— our, our kids basically have no cousins. Uh, now our cousin— now my wife's cousins have kids our kids' age. So like, my wife's cousin's kids, I don't know if that's a relation or not, third cousin once removed or something, I don't know. So they kind of grow up together in that sense and see each other once or twice a year. But the experiences we had is my wife was the oldest child, so she had two siblings, so she got to see a baby born, come home, what you do with a bit, how parents handle a baby, maybe help change some diapers, things like that. And same thing with me, I was at the house, I was living in the house when my little sister was born, so learned how to change the diaper, feed a baby, hold a baby, things like that, and saw the parents go through that stuff. Um, and then same thing with my little brother, I was living in the house when he was born, and so got to see, you know, feeding schedules, changing, snaps, all that kind of So from that angle, we kind of knew what to expect. Now, that was 10, 15-year-old information, um, right? But it's not like we had never seen, you know, what a baby does to home life or something like that. So we're prepared in that sense.

Um, yeah, because none of the— I read about 4 different books, uh, we took the baby classes, and none of it prepared us for the reality of it.

Like, the only thing I really remember from the baby classes is, uh, the swaddling techniques, because I, I was just— I was destined, and I think I had the natural hands for it, to be an expert swaddler. I mean, I could do it in about 2.3 seconds flat. Nobody was getting out of that burrito. It was— oh man, it was a, it was a skill too.

It is a skill, and it was a skill that I have yet to perfect. Maybe.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I could do it, but, uh, you need to treat it like a rodeo.

About 50% of the time it would be a solid burrito.

But yeah, you know, just treat it like a rodeo. It's a timed competition. You got, you got 3, 4 seconds to get it done. And, uh, you know, no do-overs, right?

That's a good, good comparison. So you and your wife, how did y'all decide, like, how you were going to raise your first kid and what kind of values y'all would have as a husband and wife?

So that's something we were told early on to think about before we got married.

Did y'all do counseling?

Not quite counseling. So we had a— this probably sounds weird to a bunch of strangers, uh, we had a dance— she had a dance teacher that was very involved in our lives. And they had like, I don't know, it's a very tight-knit group of girls that danced, and there's some boys too. And they did shows and they traveled and like went on tour. And but they spent a lot of time together like at the dance teacher's house, and they called them bonding parties. And she was— that teacher was also the high school dance, uh, coach. So I spent a lot of time around her because, uh, I would just skip school all day my junior and senior year because I was just there to play football and wrestle. So I would just go to the dance room— was a different building— so I would just go there and skip all my classes and hang out because they had like, you know, beanbag chairs, uncarpeted area, and I could just take naps and whatever. That woman was very influential. She, she was always doling out lots of wisdom. Uh, she was kind of one of those souls, uh, and she's still around.

Mentor.

Yeah, we still see everyone. So she always told us things like that, of like, you need to, you know, you need to be on the same page. Like, if there's a path to you two being married one day, you need to be on the same page on things like what your faith is. Um, I don't think she realized we were the same faith. I think she thought I was something different. What else is she— and then, you know, how many kids you want to have, how you want to raise them, uh, you know, how involved you in outside family, things like that. So she was kind of hammering that home. So it kind of created conversations for Ryan and I to talk about. When we finally got engaged, uh, we were both Catholic at the time, uh, in high school— I meant college. The Catholic Church had something called— I want to say it was called Engaged Encounter. It was a process they would put people through, and you basically went to like one of the Catholic properties somewhere. It was basically like a little motel or camp resort, um, for like a weekend. And you take notebooks and you break out and do this and that, and they have leaders and everything. And, uh, Things like that were certainly discussed. I can't remember much of the details. I think we still have those notebooks somewhere, so we could probably go back and read them. But it created a lot of conversations about what we want our life to look like. And, you know, they're kind of grown-up conversations, I guess. So we were always kind of on the same page. And so I don't know if we— we probably never talked scheduling. We probably just talked about the experiences we had with our brothers and sisters and realized, you know, we kind of, you know, we're kind of on the same page as this. And then, you know, discipline-wise, you know, neither one of us were from a home that you know, beat the hell out of you or something like that. But, you know, I, I think she was never spanked and I was all the time. So spanking was like an— not a fan here, but, you know, I kind of grew up in that. And depends on the scenario, but, you know, not a beating, if that makes sense. Like, we're not hitting kids on the head or—

weird. Um, it sounds like we had kind of had a similar childhood because— yeah, so, uh, my wife and I both were, uh, born and raised Catholic as well. I'm not Catholic anymore. Neither one of us are. We do go to church.

You go non-denominational now?

We do. It's a really awesome church. Uh, the people that go there and give the services are just awesome. I actually joined a men's leadership small group, uh, in 2020. Really awesome experience. But we were the same way. I mean, my dad, he hit us and he corrected us, uh, through being physical, but he never beat our ass or anything. He just— right, we just knew we just knew, like, not to mess with our dad, you know? Like, we knew to be good. We both had these paradigm shifts at the exact same time too. Like, when we got married, that's when we realized— or no, is when we got engaged, we realized, okay, something's missing here. Um, not that anything's wrong with our relationship, but there's something that could be better. And after thinking about it and reflecting it on it and talking about it, we realized it was our spirituality. Because financially, we were both in a good spot and still are. Physically, you know, I mean, yeah, uh, gun show right here. But we realized, you know, mentally, uh, physically, financially, we were all good. But spiritually is where we needed something. And neither one of us had been to church in like over a decade, because in my teenage years I strayed away from it. But once we got back into it, it's just been awesome for both of us. It's definitely, I think, completely necessary, you know. And people still— I have some friends that think, you know, religion is cheesy and that you don't need church and all that. But I really think it's important when you're becoming the man and the husband and the father that, uh, you're called to be.

So the key's there. And if you were to summarize all of this, uh, what we learned was effective was not that we were all on the same page, not that we're the same person, we grew up the same way. Those things really didn't matter. It was the willingness and comfortable— comfortability, uh, to have the conversations, to actually talk about the things, and to, you know, just kind of work out a solution or a pathway. And, you know, there's a little bit of compromise, there's a little bit of, you know, putting your foot down saying, this is really important to me, this is why it's important to me, you know, things like that. And it's having those conversations as a husband and a wife that make all the difference in the world. And that's how you have that good marriage, and that's how you build that good family, is because these things are being talked about. It's not just kind of reacting to life all the time and figuring it out and then butting heads. It's, you know, uh, crafting that plan, um, and then making adjustments on the fly. Uh, it's not about being the same though.

You're actually really right about that, because when, when we first started dating, I was terrible about talking about feelings and emotions and, uh, in the future too. And Lindsay kind of threw her, um, feminine, feminine wisdom, right? Because, because feminine energy is completely different than male energy. And I think that women have a different lens, a different energy than us men do. Excuse me. And Lindsay, uh, really got me out of my shell and talking about these sorts of things. And she's really— I have her to thank for helping me to realize some of those things.

Sure. And so girls are always going to be more apt at talking because that's, you know, this is kind of a girl thing. Uh, some guys, some guys are naturally that way, but not all of them. But I mean, that's a skill that's not only good for your relationship and good for your raising your kids and having a relationship with your children, I mean, that's good in the business world. I mean, right, that's good for your career. Um, you know, that's good if you're a politician. I mean, it's just, it's helpful in a lot of aspects of life to communicate effectively and clearly. Becoming a new dad in 2020, a little isolated, not too bad in Georgia. Have you been looking for fathers to— obviously you're following, you followed 100% Dad and found us. Are you looking for other fathers to like network with? Have you been you know, trying to find resources on, I guess, ways you can improve, or just something to listen to that you can nod your head and agree with? Or I guess, what's been your, your approach to finding content or finding circles of, uh, in the dad space?

Yeah, definitely something I could nod my head to for sure, because I like nodding my head. But also, you know, it reassures, reaffirms, uh, the way I think. It just reaffirms how I already feel, uh, whether it be with my faith or just with the way how I feel like there's a lot of nonsense happening in the world today, um, the way that society is making certain things okay, uh, that I don't think are okay, really just from a religious perspective. I've been connecting with, like I said, people at the church, other dads, uh, one of my good friends, John Addington, I've been meeting with, uh, he lives here in Georgia. He was, uh, so a little backstory about me. When I was a teenager, I, I was a little bit of a punk and I played rock and roll music in the Georgia scene for about a decade. I played drums in a band and self-managed it, which was a really good fun time of my life. Well, there was another band that was really probably the best band in Georgia that you've never heard of called A Small Victory. Okay. And, uh, they broke up before they could really blow up, but they did tour all across the United States with all the punk rock, like early 2000s punk rock shows and stuff. And, uh, they're on iTunes or Spotify still, their album is.

So what's their name again?

A Small Victory.

A Small Victory. Cool.

And their bass player Yeah, we used— my band, we were like— they were like the older guys and we were the younger guys, and my band used to open up for them at a lot of their shows, and they're really cool dudes. But their bass player, uh, you know, after the band broke up, he, um, had quite an interesting life, uh, but to make a long story short, he has 8 kids that he's raised, um, and pretty much raised them by himself because him and his wife had, had a thing and a falling out, unfortunately.

Um, well, hopefully after the 8th kid. I mean, by then the oldest— yeah, I would hope, right?

Well, I know a few of them are like adopted too and stuff.

Yeah.

Uh, but, uh, but no, so he's a guy that I look up to, and, um, we hang out more and, and talk about that stuff because, I mean, he's been— I mean, he's raising 8 kids. I know like half of them are like grown up now, like in their you know, late teens, early 20s and stuff.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah, because he's older than me, so.

Got it.

Um, but, you know, and, and just, uh, finding other, like, things. Like, uh, there's a podcast called Order of Man. Um, have you heard of that?

I've heard of that. Is that, uh, is that Mick, uh, Mickler?

I, I think so. I think so. And, uh, And of course yours and stuff, and just getting in touch with people like that, like people that want to help, uh, raise the bar with their current dads and really the next generation too.

What other, what other platforms are you following that you've been liking in the, uh, the dad and the man space?

Um, so there's this, uh, uh, this other one called, uh, Black Belt Husbands. Okay, the guy's name's, uh, Quentin Hefner, and he's a doctor, uh, in psychology, and he— I think he's a counselor too. Um, but he had a book come out, uh, that's about being a husband. It goes back to what I was saying about building that foundation. Um, in order to be a good dad, it's good to be a good husband, or that's a good starting point.

Sure.

And His stuff's really cool. And then, have you ever heard of Stefan Arneo?

Nope.

He wrote— he's dead. He died, uh, in 2020 from cancer, but he was about, uh, a year older than me, so he was 35, or I think he was 34 when he died. Wow. But he wrote this book called Hard Times Create Strong Men, and to me that was The greatest book that I've ever read in my life besides the Bible.

Let's get that one. I know that, I know that it's essentially a Chinese like proverb or some sort of Asian saying.

Yes.

You know, hard times make hard men, weak, uh, good, you know, easy times make weak men or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. And it's a, it's the whole premise is that history is a big circle and repeats itself.

And right now that is 100% true.

Yes, and this guy Stefan, I mean, again, he's rested. RIP, brother. But he wrote this like 500+ page book, and the audio is just as good too. And he talks about the fall of Rome and compares it to what's happening in America today. So it's really cool, and he goes through this whole history lesson of becoming celebrity obsessed and sports obsessed and Priorities shifting. Yes. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, that all the distractions and everything. So that book actually, I think it was after that when I realized, okay, it's okay to get married. It's okay to have kids and, and just, you know, I need to step up and be the man that I'm meant to be.

Yeah, the whole, the whole husband The whole having your marriage strong helping you be a father is super relevant in a few things. If you're having a tough time in your marriage— we've written on this and I think we've done podcasts on this before— uh, if your marriage is struggling, it's hard to be a good dad because that's kind of what you're focused on. You're either, you know, down in the dumps, or you're having these arguments in your head, or you're burying yourself into work. And it's hard to be happy and positive and really engaging with your kids when you're mad at your spouse, when you're doubting yourself as a man or a husband, or you're just in constant fights, or you're withdrawing almost from the family as a protective mechanism. And just makes you this shell of the man you once were and the shell of the dad. And because the kids are going to be reading that differently than you're intending it to go out. And so that has, that, that has real complications. And then at the same point, if you look at statistics, then we get into the topic of divorce or households without dads. Statistically, so white paper research, if you're just looking at numbers, you go to— if you look at the households that do not have a dad present at all, the numbers are just astronomically different than homes with a dad that's involved. And that's basically every measurable statistic goes in a positive direction when dad's there, and every measurable statistic goes in a negative direction when you're not there. And that's things like teen pregnancy rates, STDs, crime, poverty, welfare dependence, you know, all sorts of just, you know, what the government takes census on. I mean, every measurable data is It's night and day when that— when there is a dad in the home. Uh, now then we have to have the discussion of, you know, are dads that are already divorced or getting divorced, or, you know, they're just a single dad scenario due to death or whatever the issue is, uh, you know, what can they do? You know, are they just doomed to fail? And of course the answer is no. Uh, you know, there's, there's things you can do. Same thing with the single mom household. It's not like you're absolutely doomed. Uh, you know, we're just looking at data and trends and some, some obvious indicators, not that they can't be overcome.

Absolutely. And that— I, I wanted to add that too. Yeah, because I know single moms, I know single dads like my friend John, they are kicking ass, you know. Um, and I just, after having a kid and seeing how much work goes into it, I just have nothing but respect for all parents, but especially single parents, and single parents that are doing a good job.

It's hard because you're trying to do the jobs of two people in one, so it's, it's tremendously difficult. And it's hard to do— it's hard to do all of those things as well as you could when, when, you know, that list is split up by two people. And that's where— I mean, there's some, there's some, uh, co-parenting families, uh, that have just knocked it out of the park and do superbly fantastic jobs because they've almost got 4 really good, really involved people. The only thing I can't figure out there is why the mom and dad got divorced. So if everyone— when everyone's getting along and things are going well and like they're good with their new spouses and everyone's kind of like— there's not different sets of rules in the houses and, you know, um, the values and things like that are all on the same page and they've genuinely doing a good job. I just, I don't know what created that divorce in the first time to where the mom and the dad, uh, because obviously there's harmony there and there's, you know, they're able to tolerate each other. It's not contentious. Uh, that's when I almost wonder if there's, you know, divorces happening too soon. If, you know, things got a little bit difficult, we're giving up too soon, which is, you know, if you follow my content, I'm very bullish on marriage. I very much am a strong proponent. I think there's lots of scenarios you can overcome, but at the same point, we're trying to set our kids up with the best possible odds, if that makes sense. So the best possible odds are a whole family. So it's not impossible, it's just those are the, you know, trying to give our kids a leg up in life. We're trying to make sure, you know, do the things with the best probability.

That's exactly it. And, you know, I, I grew up in a divorced household. Uh, my parents got divorced when I was 3.

Well, I didn't know that. You made it seem like Y'all live together in a big happy family.

Well, we were, we were happy most, most of the time. But no, they got divorced when I was 3 years old. Okay. And, you know, it's so funny because I never had a problem with it. Because my parents, when they got divorced, they did it in such a graceful way, as graceful as a divorce could be, I guess. Uh, where they still talk to each other. They still, you know, we still switched back and forth.

Um, well, so at age 3, do you remember much of life with Mom and Dad in the home?

My earliest memories— but I could remember them fighting. That's kind of some of my earliest memories. But it's funny because I never blamed myself or had any problems with it. But when I would go to school in elementary school, they would send me to these counselors. And these counselors would say, oh, oh, honey, don't worry, it's, it's not your fault your parents got divorced. And I remember when I was a little kid thinking, I never thought it was my fault.

Yeah, right.

You guys put that idea, trying to put ideas in my head. Come on.

That's funny. So your little brother was, must have been really young then.

Yeah, he was like, like barely 1.

Okay, so he doesn't— he— so he, he grew up in a life where he never knew any different. I mean, that's how I was. My dad left when we were like 2 weeks old, so I didn't know any life of like mom and dad are in the same household. I just thought everyone's parents were, you know, in different houses, right? So you're— how old was your older brother then?

Uh, he was 4. 4.

I see you guys were all real young.

Yeah. Oh yeah, I, I think it's a lot easier for a divorce when you're young, as opposed to when I hear about, you know, other kids that are in their teens, because you're not breaking up their whole world.

Yeah, yeah. Not that we're advocating it for that way, but yeah, I mean, they just— you almost don't know any better. It's just, it's what life is. We have nothing else to compare it to. Yeah. And then there's also— so you have the teenage— teenage ones are very difficult. There's some people— this is a pretty rare scenario— that wait till age 18 and then just completely shatter everything. And they— that's when both parents dropped the bombshell. If we're getting divorced, we were just waiting for the last one of you to be 18.

Oh man.

And that— and they— so they think they— so the intent was good. They thought they were trying to get their kids through childhood, they'd be out of the house, and then it won't impact them as much. Uh, and it's just not true. I mean, you just shatter— you know, those kids are, are emotionally harmed big time in a very real way, not just like a sissy way of, you know, let's use some sort of emotion as an excuse. That is really— the world you grew up in was a ruse. It was all fake. It was a show. It was an act. And when you've been lied to that long, what else were you lying about? You know, are, you know, our values even true? Or do we just say that we're good people, but we do something else? You know, do we? So there's— it's, it's kind of earth-shattering, uh, in those scenarios, especially when you find out there's been that long con, in a sense. But I was reading a story It wasn't a study, it was just a story, and it was a celebrity. Uh, they're either politicians or celebrities. I think they're politicians, I can't quite remember. But they got divorced. This is just to show how divorce can affect at any age. They got divorced like after 40 years of marriage. Uh, so much older, had a life, they had kids, their kids had kids, their kids were already married, things like that. And, uh, this couple, and within 2 to 3 years Uh, all of their kids had divorced as well. So you're talking about like, you hold someone to a level, to a standard, and they, they— these people mean a lot to you, and they kind of set the example and set the standard, and then, you know, all that stuff kind of comes crashing down. So, you know, it has ramifications, um, even when you don't intend it to.

Absolutely. And I think when you have a daughter, that father-daughter relationship is so important. I'm scared to death of having a daughter because I feel like there's a lot different of an approach to it in a way.

Girls and boys are different.

But I know Lindsay, like, a big part of the reason of why we got married, or why I got married to her and realized she was the one for me, is because she has such a good head on her shoulders. And, you know, it wasn't even until after we started dating that I realized she had a really great, solid relationship with her father. And I think that's very important because I don't know about you, but I've dated, uh, I've dated girls in the past, you know, in high school and college that, uh, you could tell didn't have good relationships with their father, you know.

Well, I mean, there's a reason, um, you know, there's a segment of guys that go after girls with daddy issues. That's a real thing, uh, when you don't have that relationship with, you know, the man you admire and love the most. You know, they, you know, girls are— a lot of girls will try and fill that void, um, with, uh, a love that does not actually fill that void. It kind of compounds and makes things worse. So, uh, yeah, no, dad's relationship is huge. Uh, and then dad being able to adjust his relationship between a daughter and a son is a very tactical approach, um, because I said girls and boys aren't the same. Now there's some girls that go hunting with their dads and do sports and, you know, do maybe things that are more traditionally masculine. And there's, you know, probably some sons out there that do maybe more feminine things. Uh, just throwing out examples here— read, study, I don't know, uh, make movies, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, like to be in the kitchen cooking, clean, you know. So, you know, it's not, it's not one thing fits everyone, uh, but being able to change your approach because girls usually like to— we talked about this earlier— communicate, talk a whole lot more, uh, and dads aren't always that way. So the being able to adjust and make sure you're consciously putting in that time and that effort into listening— you don't have to talk a lot, it's more about just listening and being there and being available, uh and putting your guard down and just listening. Uh, it's a real tactical skill that helps develop that relationship with the girl. Because if you come to me, you, and just chat my ear off all the time and I like force myself to listen, that's not gonna bond us all that much. But with a daughter, that will cement that bond. It doesn't feel like it to the guy, but to the girl it does. So it's just there's, there's different approaches there.

Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, I have friends, um, with, with daughters, you know, that are a couple years old, and I mean, they love it. They said it's— there's nothing like having your little princess.

Yeah, I get that. I really do. I mean, I could see that being fun. Um, I wouldn't have minded going for a fourth and hoping it was a girl. Uh, it probably would have been a boy, so yeah.

I, I wanted a boy first. I knew that, uh, for our second one, Lindsay— Lindsay wants a daughter really bad. Uh, I'd be okay with another boy, to be honest.

But yeah, it's just, it's different. But I mean, neither, neither one's, uh, bad or, or better. So you get the cards you get dealt, right?

Right. I guess I'm just thinking too far in the future, like you know, when they're of dating age and like just knowing we're guys, we know how guys are, you know.

Yeah, well, and then, you know, you make those preparations, you have those conversations well ahead, you kind of set the standards of your household, you know. It's when you spring— it's when a 16-year-old girl comes home, says, hey Daddy, I'm so excited, you know, Jake asked me out on a date and we're going out Friday to so-and-so, uh, and you've never had a conversation with her. Oh, let's start earlier, let's say she was 13. And you've never had any conversations about that kind of stuff, and your expectation was no dating until 15 or 13, or whatever your values are. Yeah, um, well, you don't want to create rebellion on purpose, so you want to set, you know, set reasonable, realistic, uh, rules. Uh, but having an expectation set and being proactive in your parenting is going to have a lot better results than being reactive and having a daughter that comes home excited about something, and instead of, uh, instead of being able to join her in that excitement, you kind of crush her and say, "Boy, you're not going out. No, no boys," you know, uh, or, "No boys till this certain age," or, you know, "You're not going." So when there's rules and expectations of what's an allowable date or what's an allowable age, and that's all done in advance, you're going to have a much smoother, better process because the expectations have been laid out in advance. It's just no one's gonna get— no one's gonna get crushed and get mad at you and then purposely do the opposite because you surprised them with something.

That goes back to the effective communication.

Yeah.

And there was a, uh, a really good series of services at my church about a year ago, and it was perfect. It was right when we were having Logan, or right when Logan was about to be born. And, um, Andy Stanley, the leading pastor at North Point Community, our church, he was saying that in his household, he was talking about raising kids and overcoming the difficulties with it. And, uh, he was talking about, you know, one of the biggest ways to have effective communication is to simplify the rules. And in his household, with his kids growing up, they only had two rules. Number one was honor your mother. Honor your mother. So if your mother says you can or can't do something, that's the final say. You don't come back— you don't come back to Dad and say, hey Dad, Mom said I can't do this, could I do that? Because if you say that, if you do that, you're dishonoring your mother. She already said no because If a kid comes up to me, or if Logan comes up to me and his mom just told him not to do something, and he says, Dad, can I do it please? If I say, yeah, sure, you could do that, but your mom said you couldn't, then that creates disharmony within the household because your mom said one thing and now I'm telling you something else.

Well, A, mom and dad need to be united front. B, the kid in our house, uh, the kid's got in huge trouble for playing mom and dad against each other. So that was a bigger crime, if that made sense, and got such a more heavy-handed punishment and a greater response than whatever else they were trying to do or doing with it. It was just— that was such a big thing of, you don't go to mom when dad said no, you don't go to dad when mom said no. Especially if you're— it's one thing if you're trying to have a conversation of like, you know, Why is he doing it this way? You know, here are some reasons we should. Um, that doesn't happen very often with kids. If you didn't tell Mom that Dad already said no, so if you just went and asked Mom something and then went off and did it because she said yes, and then I find out later that you did that, like, there was hell to pay. Like, that was a big deal. It's a big sin in our household, um, to drive a wedge between Mom and Dad.

Yeah, yeah, I I could see it. Well, so back to the two rules. So that was rule number one, was honor your mother. And number— rule number two was don't lie. And he keeps it very simple. Uh, he said that there was one story he told where his daughter came in the room and was like, Daddy, Daddy, you gotta see what I did!

I—

because he bought— he bought a brand new car. It was like a Corvette or something that he was excited for. And she goes, Daddy, Daddy, you gotta see the art I made on your car. And he's like, what? And she takes him to the garage and she basically keyed his car or, or took something, toys or something, and was playing with it or scratching up the car, but made all these scratches on this brand new car. And he was so frustrated, but he couldn't be mad at her because she didn't break any rules. She didn't lie, she told the truth. It was, it was an interesting moment because she didn't break the rules. Now, with you and your kids, what kind of rules do you have and what kind of punishments do you have? Because that—

don't, don't scratch my truck, right?

Don't scratch the truck. That we're gonna have to write that in, add that.

Oh, oh, that's written in because, uh, Levi carved his name in my truck, my oldest one.

So that's a thing that kids just do. Okay.

Yeah, that's a real thing. Um, okay. So our rules at home were very clear and fixed, and it was, you know, we weren't a military household, but we were pretty, we were pretty disciplined, and we had routines and, uh, a lot of stability. Um, you know, there was no writing on the wall, and that rule got, uh, created because someone wrote on the wall. They're, uh, you know, there's a bedtime, uh, there was a basically a clean up after yourself. You were allowed to cry and stuff like that and pitch fits, but usually you had to, you know, you were given a little bit of leeway, but then you just had to go somewhere else. Like, it's all right if you cry, but you need to go do that in your room. You know, temper tantrums and fits were not rewarded.

From what I'm reading, you should never— if you're gonna punish correctly, you should never punish or correct them out of anger?

Yeah, so there's a couple scenarios, and it kind of depends on the offense. Um, so sometimes there needs to be an immediate and swift, uh, reaction, just very clear: wrong, don't do that. Immediate, you know, maybe it's a swat of the hand, you know, because they're about to touch a stove, or, um, you're protecting them.

You're— yeah, physical touch. Is prohibiting them from hurting themselves more than you'd hurt them by swatting their hand.

Yeah, and I'd have to prepare a few examples. I'm trying to think of off top of my head. I just can't think of anything that a kid can do wrong on the spot. Um, you know, some, some things are just a little bit more immediate and swift. Um, as far as like anger and stuff like that, I am naturally the person that kind of can sit there and just stare at a thing and let it be awkward and kind of like run everything through my head. And I know on way, way more than one occasion I've sat there and said, go sit on your bed while I figure this out. You know, we usually addressed exactly what was wrong. Let's say they, uh, I don't know, grabbed a bottle of ketchup and just dumped it on the new couch. It'd be an immediate, that's wrong, you cannot do that. What made you thought that was a good idea? There's a couple reasons. You're wasting food. So Second, that's a brand new couch. Um, third, you're going to clean it up. Um, you know, at least participate in the cleanup, I guess. You know, that's going to be age appropriate. And don't make it— you know, we don't want to make it worse. And kids aren't going to naturally know, you know, how to handle certain fabrics, if that makes sense. So it kind of depends on your value system of what's important to you. And our house, carpets and stuff like that, like, they mattered but not that much. Like, you get in trouble, but it wasn't that much trouble because it's not like our carpets were perfect. Like, we're the family that wore shoes in the house. Like, you didn't have to take shoes off at the door.

I've been letting go more and more of keeping a clean house because, yeah, me and my wife, we keep a clean house and we've always kept it, you know, like everything in order. But we have become a lot more lenient because you kind of have to.

We, we live a lifestyle that's clean, like in the sense that like You know, things aren't just piled up everywhere. There's no sense of hoarding or anything like that. There's no bugs or filth or mold or anything like that. But, you know, one lady came into our house and said, your house is so lived in. And, you know, it was a compliment. Like, I mean, there's just like, there's toys around. Like, our pillows aren't perfectly placed all the time. Like, a lot of times our couch cushions are on the floor because kids are jumping on them. You know, we clean it up after, you know, people are coming over. We put a little more effort into it. You know, there might be— there's probably some dishes in the sink at some point, but they're not like overflowing and filthy. Yeah, yeah. So like, it's not a disgusting house, it's just a lived-in house because we— there's constant commotion and there's people. And we didn't want to spend that much of our life caring about those things because they just weren't important to us. We'd rather be having fun and enjoying life. And because— and not that there's anything wrong with it, but if you're trying to achieve that perfect level of clean Man, you're going to get in a lot of fights and arguments with your kids, and some people are going to live that life. I just— I— we, we as a family chose not to. It just wasn't as important to us. Or we wanted to take care of our stuff, but at the same time, it's just stuff.

It, it's just stuff, right?

Yeah, I feel that way. Like, our— we— our vehicles, um, we genuinely never cared about, uh, to an extent, like, not utter filth, but like, we ate in them. We went to the beach with them and there'd be sand in them. It just wasn't that important to us. And so it's kind of the same with the home and even with the RV now. Like, if you looked around right now, like, everything's not pristine. It's not a showroom, right?

Um, so growing up, me and my brothers, we, we had to keep it pristine. Like, our dad was a big hard-ass on that. And that's one thing that I would make a correction from how our dad raised us was, I want to have, or do my best to have, a little more patience with my kid, uh, or kids in the future. So my dad, for example, he— nothing was ever done to his satisfactory— yeah, high satisfaction, which, which, you know, it's good to have the high standards. But for example, when it came to things like doing things or completing a task, instead of, you know, saying good job or you did good, it would never be good enough. And he would always come through and redo it himself after us. So when it came to simple tasks like cleaning, uh, cleaning the sink or whatever, or even more advanced tasks like building a model airplane or something, he would always come in and be like, nope, nope, that's wrong, let me do it, let me do it. And he would do it. And it was like that all the time. So yeah, that's one thing that with my kids, I need to learn how to have a little more grace because I still have— I like, even some— ask my wife, sometimes, you know, we're not perfect. We, we bicker and, uh, sometimes we— our patience is thin with each other in that regard.

So that's where having a good spouse really helps because, um, I am similar to her, like I just have high expectations of how things are done, um, and I, I'm adjusting for a kid already, but sometimes it's like I know I can do it really well, so I want to get involved. My wife is good at, um, not tearing me down, but kind of finding her way to get in there, not to embarrass me or, or in front of the kids or anything, or undermine me or anything, but like, hey, like they're kids, let, let them do it their way, doesn't have to be your way. Um, and so she kind of helps balance that out a little bit in me because it's something I just genuinely need help with because my— and I was this way, um, in work too. Like, you know, if you ask anybody that's ever worked for me and they'll sit there and say it was hard for me to actually achieve perfection. And then even when I did achieve perfection, uh, that was the standard. So there was no like good job. It was like, that's what you're supposed to do.

That's sweet.

Yeah. Um, which is not a good way to be a boss. And now, you know, it took me a while to figure that out. There's this kind of this ebb and flow of you've earned trust, you've lost trust, you've earned trust, you've lost trust. Uh, you know, you can, you can go out further and do things on your own and have a little bit more solitude, and you know, now you can't. Um, the biggest thing we've had in the RV life is, uh, especially the life we get to live now, is their life is freaking good, uh, and there's not much of a punishment. So we're struggling with how do we penalize our children, because the truth is, even if they get in trouble, they've done something really wrong, you know, when Grandma and Grandpa flew in 2,000 miles away, they're still going to hang out with Grandma and Grandpa. Like, they're still gonna, you know, if they got a hotel or a cabin, they're still going to go there because, you know, we're probably not going to punish Grandma and Grandpa, or, you know, they haven't seen each other in a while. Um, we're still going out to eat several times a week. Like, you know, it's just that that's our life. We're tasting the foods of the area we were in, you know. We're gonna— if we're in St. Louis, we're getting St. Louis pizza from like the best St. Louis place. So, you know, we're, we're getting St. Louis ribs from, you know, the best barbecue place in town or the iconic one. So, you know, we're still— you know, in a sense, they get a field trip almost every single day. So, you know, they could do something wrong, get in trouble, be very disobedient but there's really no grounding because it's not like we can leave them somewhere. We'd have to almost ground the entire family if one gets in trouble, or all three, and then we have to like punish ourselves as parents, which we do every once in a while. Because honestly, we're still going to go to a museum, we're still going to go to this tourist thing, we're still going to go see, you know, St. Louis, or we're still going to go up in the Arch, um, we're still going to go see the baseball stadium. And, you know, because we're moving such a fast-paced life and constantly traveling different cities So that's been very difficult. We're really not able to ground or punish all that well. So we're having to kind of like create things for them to do.

Who's your baseball— what team do you all root for?

I'm not sure we have one. So I was born in Baltimore, so I'm like a default Orioles fan just because, you know, they were world champions right here. Yeah, I'm not from Georgia, so I don't care about them. But you're from Florida.

All my friends from Florida, they root for the Atlanta Braves. So, are we—

so, so, yeah, I guess it was the Marlins or Devil Rays. Um, but we, like, in—

we're—

I'm in St. Augustine, so we don't have one in our region. Um, but yeah, from— I was born in Baltimore, so Orioles. But the Orioles haven't done anything since like '96, so.

Right, right. Well, so your kids, how do you, how do you school them? Then?

I mean, we, we homeschooled before we left. Yeah, so we started the oldest in private school and we just really didn't like it. Uh, I think we came into odds with that private school for some reason. And, uh, so we— my wife decided she would give homeschooling a try for one year. And there's a big homeschooling community in St. Augustine, Florida, and Florida in general. Um, good. And then, you know, once we got into it, like, I can't imagine going back now. There is so much freedom Uh, so much enjoyment. I think the quality of education— moving to homeschool, we're able to control a lot more, and there's curriculums. You get to pick out the curriculum. So I think the quality of education, especially over public schools, is tenfold. And we get a tremendous amount of time freedom because they're not just sitting in class waiting for the other kids to get done or waiting for the bell to ring. I was never impressed with the public schools. We're— we have the number one county in the state of Florida. And education-wise. Like, a lot of people moved to our county for the public school system.

Really?

I graduated from— they're not that impressive. Like, they're number 1 in Florida. Florida's like number 30 in the country. Our country's like number, like, 12 in the world. Like, these aren't great things.

Where I live in Gwinnett County, they say that Gwinnett County has like the best schools in Georgia.

An involved parent and an involved— and a kid that's really into education, um, can do well and excel in public schools. Um, everyone else not so much. You kind of just get pushed through. I skipped the last 2 years of high school, like almost every single class every single day, and still graduated by— and I— so I didn't learn a lot, you know. I just kind of, you know, I figured the system out.

And yeah, the other thing though is public school, you got private school, and you have homeschool. Private school, that's a whole other animal in itself because I have cousins that went to private school, actually Greater Atlanta Christian School. Those dudes were crazy. They partied 10 times more than us public school kids did.

It's a, it's a ruse that the private school is a safe place. It's not. Um, you know, the, the, the Catholic— there's only— when I was growing up, there was only one private high school in St. Augustine, and the only difference between us and them is they could afford cocaine. And our public schools couldn't. So, I mean, you know, when their parents went out of town for long periods of time, that beach house was empty, and that's where we partied. Yeah, no, the problems do not get away at private schools. If, if anything, they get worse. The, the bullying can be worse, um, the keeping up with the Joneses at a teenage level can get a lot worse, and definitely the, the party, drug, sex scene can be, uh, just as bad, if not worse, or just higher class.

Higher class.

So yeah, so I'm not enthralled by private schools either, or public schools. And more than anything, I just wanted the time. Schools consume so much time that's unnecessary, and I just— I am so enjoying our lifestyle. I also have a career that, um, allows for it, and a wife that, um, is willing to stay at home, um, so we can make good benefit of it. And so we have a lot more family time and family enjoyment and going out doing stuff that is often educational. You know, all the museums we go to are often educational. When we go see things, you know, the Lewis and Clark Trail is very educational. When we go to farms, it's very educational. So we learn a lot and have a greater perspective of the world and how it works. Things that, you know, you only get touched on in school. But it's a lot of wasted time. There's just a lot of wasted time in school. We're done, we're done in like an hour and a half, 2 hours, maybe 3 tops, and then we have the rest of the day to live.

Even colleges, because I'm not gonna encourage my kids to go to college unless they want to and they know what they want to do. My wife Lindsay, she's a nurse, she's a registered nurse, an RN, at Gwinnett Medical, now Northside. She went to college because she knew that she was going to become a nurse. Yeah, I went to college because my dad told me to my whole life. Go to college, get a degree, become an accountant, get an accounting degree. My brain is not wired to be an accountant. I, I'm a people person. I'm a salesman. I— that's what I do, and I'm very creative. So my dad, you know, in that regard, never took the time to talk or actually get to know me in that sense. So when I went to college, I went for a couple years and I just got stoned the whole time, and that's all I did. Uh, didn't finish. I didn't graduate. And after a couple years, and then I did, uh, for about 6 years I worked in a warehouse as a forklift operator.

Did your dad pay for that or did you take on the loans?

For those couple of years, uh, we split it about half and half. Uh, but after I quit, well, like I said, I worked in a warehouse for about 6 years driving a forklift, which wasn't terrible. It, uh, it was a good secure job and, uh, you know, paid the bills. That's actually how I got into real estate was because, uh, after over 6 years of driving a forklift, I realized that there were dudes in that warehouse that were 50, 60 years old that had been doing it since they were my age. And I realized I didn't want that to be me. So I decided, okay, I could either go back to college and take out loans and go into debt, and— or for about $500, I could get my real estate license and get into sales and start that career. And that's what I did. And I've, you know, been doing it ever since and have lived a comfortable life since. And I know other people, uh, one of my good friends, he actually became a doctor. He's not really doing what he wants, and he's hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. That's just crazy to me, right?

That's normal.

I, I, you know, fuck normal. Excuse me, are we allowed to curse on this podcast?

At least he's using the degree. So a lot of people are going to college, getting their degree in whatever because they know what they wanted to be, and you look at their career and it has nothing to do with the degree they got. Um, and so then you wonder why. So I actually just had the podcast that's going out this week is a guy, he's more of a proponent than college than I am. But he figures out, he specializes in late-stage funding for college. So parents who are, you know, obviously it's just as practical when you have younger kids, but when you're in high school and you realize you got big college bills coming up, preparing for what's coming ahead. But yeah, I'm not big on college, I dropped out. I don't mind if my kids go, I would like them to have some sort of reason for going. Florida's got some pretty nice tuition helpers. They— we've got the Bright Futures program that pays for a lot of tuition if you perform well in high school and graduate with a good GPA and then continue to have a strong GPA in college. You know, it's through our lottery in the state of Florida, but it covers a good chunk of tuition, which can be very, very helpful. I'm not big on just sending the kids away to party for 4 years. Just, I don't think life hasn't been that hard that they need that kind of vacation.

Exactly. And like I said, just if they know what they want to do and it's something that makes sense. Now, if my son comes up to me and says he wants to go to school for gender studies, I'm gonna say hell no, you have to pay for that shit yourself. Because sure, uh, that, that—

and then I would strongly advise that they actually pay for that themselves because, you know, what value will it have as a career, um, versus— now I would sit there and say if my son's very, um, very skilled in mathematics and wants to pursue mathematics to a higher level because, you know, his teachers are saying he's scoring off the charts, but we don't know what kind of career that means, I would probably still fund that. For my kids and sit there and say, yeah, pursue higher mathematics. I mean, honestly, it's an advanced thing, so there's probably higher job opportunities, but we don't know what that is. We don't even know if you might like that. So, you know, you might, you know, obviously if you hate math, don't do it. But, you know, that's something you want to pursue because you have a talent, you want to kind of like, I'm better at this than other people, I want to keep doing it. Um, you know, I'd happily fund that not knowing what the end game is. Knowing at the same time that there's probably something lucrative at the end of it.

There's a skill set there. There's a skill set somewhere, and, and yeah, somewhere down the line there's going to be a practical use for it.

And but then make money. Then there's a practicality we had to add on here that, uh, you know, his daughter wanted to be a lawyer and he had the foresight to sit there and say, okay, listen, I've got a client that's an attorney. I'm gonna get you an internship I think it was first or sophomore year of college, just spend the summer up there and he's gonna let you work beside him. So you see what law firm, you know, the paperwork side, you know, the client side, you know, billing, you know, and it kind of all phases of law. And she did that for a summer and realized, wow, I hate it. So like the idea of being a lawyer was really cool, but the practicality of being a lawyer, I'd be miserable my whole life. It's not for me. And so that was a smart decision by that dad of, you know, let's make sure this isn't just like a dream, that you're okay with the realness of what the job is. I had a friend that wanted to be a sex therapist because she felt she would be helping— that's what she wanted to go to college for. She thought she'd be helping couples like improve their sex life. And then it didn't take long before she figured out, no, you're just you're, you're having to sit down with disgusting perverted people because they want to rape a 12-year-old. And like, she realized, well, that's— I don't want to— I don't want that to be my life. Like, I thought it would be this beautiful thing, and no, it's a, that's a horrible, horrible thing. So, you know, getting into the real practicalities and, and, you know, having that kind of foresight for a child that doesn't know to have the foresight is a very good tip.

Well, yeah, that's that whole dilemma of either following something you're passionate about or following about— following something that's practical, going towards something that's practical. Because, you know, there's two types of coaches I've seen, um, on social media and everything, and that you should follow your passions, find something you're passionate about, right, and just stick with that. And then there's the other school of thought that's— no, don't follow your passion. Your passion could just be your hobby, and then do something that you're good at that makes you money. Be okay with that.

Listen, I appreciate you having on. I think we got a lot of good content in there. Uh, if there's any last things you want to say, uh, you can go ahead and give a closing remark, and then we'll go ahead and, uh, cut this off.

Okay, Townsend, I mean, I really appreciate the talk today and having me on here. Uh, I think that it's important for not only people like you and me to talk, but people listening to podcasts like this to talk to other people they're friends with, uh, other dads they know, other people who have experience that they might not have. You having 3 kids, you have more experience than me. Me having a completely different experience than you just gives you a different perspective as well. So Um, thanks for having me. Thanks for letting us have this discussion today.

Absolutely, Joseph. I appreciate you coming on. Have a good one.

All right, brother.

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