The Truth About Alex Hormozi’s Skool & How To Make $10K/Month

Oh, you see Hormozy's tweet?

No.

Which one?

He's like, I'm on a cut. I'm eating a protein shake, a protein bar, and 2 pounds of ground turkey every day. That's it.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, bro, ground turkey. Ground turkey is bad.

Interesting learnings. We just launched it today. I haven't looked in a couple of hours, but we were at, like, 130 people that joined for 35amonth. So we. We got rich today, guys.

What car are you gonna buy?

I don't know.

I don't even have a car, bro.

Welcome back to the Stick Talk podcast. We're back in the Grand Cathedral Cigar Lounge for the first time in what feels like a long time. We haven't actually sat down and recorded in, like, a month. I've been out of town. You've been out of town. You've been out of town. So a lot to catch up on. But first thing that I wanted to start off with is just going over those travels, what everybody's been up to. You were just back home in New York for a week.

New York. And then I was in Fort Lauderdale. And then where else have I been? I feel like I haven't been traveling. It's been, like, weird. Like, weekend trips, like, small trips, like, nothing substantial. But, yeah, it's just been like, I can't sit still this year. I don't know what it is.

Plus, going back to New York doesn't really feel like traveling. If you're going home, it's more so just like you're going back home. It's familiar. You're not staying in hotels or anything like that?

Staying in my own bedroom, bro.

Should I go to Scottsdale?

You should, bro. That's crazy. So that's your event.

Oh, okay.

So you. So Christian got an opportunity to go to, like, an invite only, I think. What? There's 10 people that are able to go to the event.

40.

40. Okay.

It's on a Wednesday, though. It's.

Who cares? So Christian got invited to go to an event in Scottsdale hosted by Dean Graziosi and Tony Robbins. And I think it's like an award ceremony ceremony, essentially, or like a private mastermind of the top affiliates for mastermind.com. and if you remember, way back when we were in school at Binghamton University, in college, they just launched mastermind.com for the first time, and they were doing this whole, like, live webinar event online. And, like, I was in the first live webinar.

Yeah.

Because it Just sounded like the coolest thing ever. It's like, sell your knowledge online, Package it all up.

I'll tell them. I'm in. I'll tell them.

And so now Christian, a couple years later, has an invite to go to an event with Dean and Tony. Two absolute legends in the space. It's just. It's just a cool, like, full circle.

No one else wants to go.

I can't. I'm gonna be in Nashville.

Dan can go.

I'm not going. I can't travel anymore.

All right, I'll go by myself then.

Have fun. I had a great time last time I went to Scottsdale solo.

I'll wreak havoc on Casa Amigos for the boys.

No, no, you had a good trip in Scottsdale. That last podcast was fire. Just going over all the different. Cool.

It was amazing. Like I said, I had a great time traveling alone too, which I don't know if I've ever done before, but it was nice once a money a talking stick. So make sure you go back there.

Nope.

Come on.

I don't want to gamble anymore.

Oh, yeah, Traveling alone is, like, therapeutic, bro. Yeah, the only time I did that was in to Colorado for Taylor's event, like, a couple months before that or around the same time, actually. It's just nice.

Yeah. And you'll connect with a bunch of good people so it won't be, like, alone the whole time.

Yeah, because you can't just, like. You can't just, like, hang out with the guys you went with. Yeah, you have to, like, go do something. Otherwise you just are, like, being awkward. Yeah, it just throws you right in it.

How'd you get that?

I guess I'm going. The Pedro kid that wants to do affiliate work for us and won't stop hitting us up.

Shout out Pedro.

Rightfully so.

Shout out Pedro. I mean, that's a good way to. To loop us into whatever services he wants to sell us. I mean, that's a hell of an invite. So, yeah, that's a reason alone. To do some work with Pedro, if he's listening. Appreciate you, bro.

And if we recorded a month ago, did we go through, like, your whole Texas, California excursion or no?

I don't know. Maybe take away from that is don't schedule five cities in two weeks and expect to keep your physique insanity intact. Cuz I look down at my bro.

You look good now, though. I was telling you, you're like. Your face is, like, inside.

At one point during the trip, I could see my cheeks by looking down. Cuz I was so inflamed.

But what you do when you got back to like, get back into like.

The swing of it regular.

I opened up the fridge or a bunch of egg whites in there. I was like, this guy's dialed in right now.

No, but like, you be.

You've been probably really strict on workout routine.

I just work out a lot. Yeah. And I never really eat like, shitty at all, dude. Like, I eat pretty clean most of the time. Naked Farmer blesses up with their food and I don't know. The drinking is definitely my kryptonite.

But yeah, it's the drinking that always ruins it, bro.

So I don't know if I told you this, but I was talking to one of the guys at Naked Farmer that's friends with the owner.

Yeah.

And he was telling me how the owner of Naked Farmer worked at Fresh Kitchen.

No.

Before starting Naked Farmer and he didn't like the direction that Fresh Kitchen was going in, so he decided to start Naked Farmer instead.

I don't know. I think Fresh Kitchen went.

Isn't that crazy?

I still love Fresh Kitchen.

That's like a Taylor Walsh, Cole Gordon type story. Yeah, that's what it reminded me of.

Damn. But yeah, trip was fun. Lot back to back to back. Made a tik tok in a bar that got them 3 million views and they didn't give me anything for it.

So what was your favorite city that you were in?

Didn't you meet Conor McGregor?

Oh, yeah, I didn't meet. He was like. He was. From me to that cigar ashtray though. He's. I don't know. He's.

Did you. The Connor boys.

No, he. Everyone was swarming him, so I just let him rock.

But it's like full golf tic tac boy. I don't got no time.

He was friendly. I mean, he wasn't like a dick to anybody. But also got to go to a really cool basketball game with a connection friend. C1 Banyama. That was sick.

But yeah, the alien.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that like his nickname, the alien, or is that just his logo?

I think he just looks like an alien. I don't know if he.

Logo.

The dude is. Is a prodigy. Tearing it up.

But yeah. What do we got? Internet money.

Just another successful launch that.

That was.

What you going to do about it?

I literally opened up. I was like, am I on my following page? Cuz all I saw was I went through a phase where I was scrolling for 15 seconds and legitimately like 2020 tweets. Every single one. It was on my for you page to nobody that I found.

Yeah, I don't know. We didn't really coordinate a plan to launch it other than Internet Money is launching 11am today. Put out a tweet and see what happens.

I'm.

There was just so much like camaraderie built up from people that were in Internet Money like when it first released last year and they got so much value out of it the first time around that they felt obligated to make sure that everyone that they know now knows about this being an opportunity again.

Yep.

And like that was just a chain effect. And then you go into the actual group and I think Daniel just put a tweet out that said hey, if you join like just shout us out on Twitter, tag me, I'll follow you back, I'll retweet you. And that just started to change.

There's just so much pent up demand from people that have been consuming our free education that still aren't ready for Client Ascension but have built up enough goodwill in their mind to the point where like I want to buy something.

Yes.

It's just like that perfect starter course for them.

Yeah. Super successful launch. So like basically Internet Money, the best way to describe it is it's like the, the starter pathway to joining a program like Client Ascension. I think the tagline is like learn a skill. Learn how to sell and deliver that skill in the form of getting clients to make your first $1,000 online. And guys like Eamon who are in client attention now. Amen has scaled all the way up to like $90,000 a month with his agency. He started by joining Internet Money when he was at zero, got his first client like he learned the skill set, got his first client, invested in the client ascension and continued his growth. And that's kind of what we're trying to recreate just by. I don't know why we got rid of Internet Money in the first place, but time commitment. I'm happy we did because now we scrapped it. We made it way better. We brought in other coaches like Colin Schmelbeck to teach Google Ads Max to teach E commerce email marketing, aiming to teach short forming and content creation. So it's basically like Client Ascension. The same concept of bringing in other experts and coaches to teach their perspectives and their business models and then obviously the core of it like the offers, business models, cold email each and agencies taught by us.

Yeah.

So I'm excited for people to go through and just see the results that is able to help people get and how it kind of funnels into Client Ascension. Ultimately.

Yeah. And it's such a perfect product for beginners because everybody who hasn't bought something still is so skeptical. Like everything's a scam. This is like we've dealt with that one guy who's got spaghetti for brains on Twitter there for a little bit. Like all those people who haven't like joined a mastermind are just uber, uber skeptical. And we don't need the money from that really. It's just like a funnel to get people sign the incline ascension. That we're able to price it in such a way that just makes it like an absolute no brainer. And we just 10x over deliver very easily. So it's like the perfect thing to kind of like break down that limited belief, actually get them learning, actually get them making money. And then of course, obviously, if things work out, they join client essentially.

Yeah. Because what we've realized basically this is like a behind the scenes, like conversation of like how we're approaching scaling a company like Client Ascension. So the biggest thing we realize is that there's a gap in the market between where someone is at now to where they need to be to join a program like Client Ascension. And you get on a sales call, if that gap is not filled, you lose that prospect, at least for the time being. And then you hope that email marketing, tweets, threads, YouTube videos are able to keep them engaged and eventually reel them back in when they are ready. But that's just not good enough as we've come to find out. It's not going to allow us to grow the way we want to. And so we need to fill that gap with an actual product to get them started, which is now Internet money. So the thought process is you send people the Internet money first, get them that first result, and then you sell them into a program like Client Ascension rather than trying to get them to join Client Ascension cold from zero because it just was not scalable with that approach.

Yeah. And going from zero to one is the hardest part of starting any business. So like you said, email marketing like tweets, whatever we can do to stay in front of them is good. But realistically, as they're going through the hardest transition, if you don't have any control, like if you don't have them in a community where you can talk them and actually help them out, 98% of the people just never get to that point.

Yeah, they need some exposure. So like we've always gone back and forth on this too, like sales, like who's qualified to join Client Ascension. Like, they need to be at 10k a month. That's not necessarily true. It's kind of to your point. It's like they need to have gone from zero to one. And that can be in the form of literally starting an agency and signing their first client. Even if that first client was paying him 500 bucks a month, because that's what Eamonn did, He got his first client paying him, I think, like $800 or $1,000 a month. That's what someone like Michael Rathman did. So it's not necessarily like a revenue mark that you have to get to to join Client Ascension. It's just like you have to get the process started. And that first part of the process is what takes the most amount of time, the most amount of effort, and the most amount of skill development to then roll that momentum into a program like Client Ascension.

Yeah.

So, interesting learnings. We just launched it today. I haven't looked in a couple of hours, but we were at like 130 people that joined for $35 a month. So we got rich today, guys.

What are you going to buy?

I don't even have a car.

Three grand or something.

130 people at $35 a month. So, yeah, we're rich. We could buy dinner tonight.

Nice steak specifically.

But one of the questions we were getting a lot on Twitter and just from people in our network is I thought you guys were going to watch this on school. So why did you choose Wop, which is the platform that we ended up releasing Internet money on, as opposed to School, which recently was invested into by guys like Alex Hormozi? Obviously, it's Sam Oven's product. Like, what about WAP do we like better than school?

Just the community aspect isn't great in school, in my opinion. Like, it's very hard to go back and forth and engage and talk to people.

Yeah.

The way the feed works, it's not always, like, chronological. You can't segment very easily. The UI for school is great as just like strictly an lms, but in terms of, like, chatting and going back and forth, which there's a ton of back and forth when you're in that beginner phase. I love school for what it is, but I just think for, like, an actual community where people are talking to each other and helping it out, it kind of stinks.

I agree. I think, like, in the simplest form, it's just like, there needs to be a live chat.

Yeah.

Like, there needs to be, like, a place where everyone in the community can go and send a message like instantaneously. Like a big I like imessage group chat.

Yeah.

Essentially. Whereas in school, like, the only way to communicate to the group is to like put together a formal post with like a title and, and attachments. And like, the only way to respond to that is through like a comment.

Yeah.

It just doesn't.

It all takes way too much effort.

It's too much effort and there's no like, there's no like, discourse. Discourse happening. It's just people posting at each other rather than like in a chat. Like Internet money. It's like hilarious. It's just like a big imessage group chat that we're. We're now all in.

Yeah.

And like, it's like instant. Like there's messages like every single second from other guys. They're being sent, they're talking, they're replying to each other, they're reacting with emojis. And it just, it's fun. Like it feels like the community is actually alive. Whereas you look at a school community, it's like, yeah, there's thousands of people in here, but it just feels dead. Like, are there actually people here? I don't know. I couldn't tell you. But dude, WAP is really cool. It's been fun working with their team. Shout out to Hunter if he's out there listening. This guy's an absolute beast, bro. Like, if there's the best example of how to do SaaS sales, it's this guy. And this guy asked Daniel, like, just an absolute stud. He's a legend. I think literally today Daniel was asking a bunch of questions like, hey, we need this feature. We need that feature. And Hunter was responding to Daniel with the linear ask request that he had immediately sent within a couple of minutes to their development team. And then today he's like, actually, by the way, I want you to get on a call with one of our founders and just tell them all of your feature recommendations yourself. Like, I just want to loop you guys in with. With the. The C suite.

What is like, what is the definition of what they are? Cuz like they're on the app store. The. The description for their app makes no sense.

What. What does it say?

It says, well, on the app store.

The perspective is probably more from like a student experience.

Use your apps and get notified.

What does it say?

Use your apps and get notified.

Yeah, so they. So the way they.

Is it built like on top of discord and stuff? Like, no.

So they have WAP or they call them WAPs or I think WAPs or apps. I don't even know, to be honest. But they have apps. Like, so an app would be like chat. An app would be like the course functionality. An app would be like. If you go into Internet Money, it's really cool. There's an app called List Kit, and if you click it, it just takes you to listkit.com or listkit IO.

Okay.

And it's like within the course. You are now on the List Kit website. You can go through, you can sign up, you can use List Kit, like, while in Internet Money, it's like, iframed into the actual course. That's sick. And so it's got a lot of cool features like that. They have, like, the affiliate program iframed into it. So I think the apps are just. Is that what it said? Use your apps and get notified? I think it's just like getting notified from your Internet Money chat app or Internet Money course app, if that makes sense.

Yep.

So I don't know. Their team just seems super innovative. They're fun to work with. They actually take user feedback seriously and, like, they quickly implement it. Like, we've seen with a lot of requests we've put in since, you know, working on this Internet Money launch. Whereas school just feels like it hasn't changed since it's launched. Like, I don't think it's changed at all.

They have Dark Mode. I haven't seen an update since we started on there.

Right. It looks the exact same. It works the exact same. It's not like anything's broken. It's just that there's so much missing.

Yeah.

And I've seen this from so many other creators, so I don't know what's happening at school, but I know Hormozi's listening. You got to get your shit together, bro.

Oh, you see Hormozy's tweet?

No. Which one?

He's like, I'm on a cut. I'm eating a protein shake, a protein bar, and 2 pounds of ground turkey every day. That's it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm like, bro, ground turkey, what does that add up to? Ground turkey is bad.

What do you mean?

Ground turkey just doesn't taste good.

Oh, yeah. I thought you meant, like, bad for you.

I was like, no, it's like the driest.

So is that just like, pure protein diet?

Yeah, yeah. Meal one, 42 gram protein shake, 21 gram protein bar. Meal two and three, one pound ground turkey plus hot sauce.

That's it.

That's it. Like 2, 000 calories.

Now he does that. He does that for meal two and three.

Okay, so 2, 000 calories, but like, what, 300 grams of protein.

Yeah.

63 plus 180. It's like 240. Yeah.

It's insane. That's like the leanest diet of all time.

He just loves suffering. I mean, look at the guy. Obviously knows what he's doing.

Yeah, but why does a guy like that need to cut? What is he cutting? I don't know.

He's already jacked.

That's what I'm saying.

It's only a 21 day cut, though.

Wow.

I should try that. 21 days. Just be a robot and see what happens.

I would swap out turkey with, like, ground beef. Maybe chicken?

Chicken.

Yeah, something ground beef is a little more enjoyable. Yeah, but I feel like that's manageable. You would be full.

No cars. That'd be awful.

I know. It just wouldn't be enjoyable. Try it.

I'll try it.

No carbs actually isn't that bad. You have like, the energy dip for, like, the first.

My workouts are awful. No carbs, bro. Like, my workouts after, like a Thanksgiving weekend are unreal because I have so much. So much carbs in my video.

So do you eat before you work out? Like carbs? Yeah, before going.

I have the best workouts. Like, after I eat. Just fuels me.

I'm gonna work out. After the workout. You have to eat again.

No, you don't.

I feel like you should.

No.

Should eat protein to recover. No.

Doesn't matter. When you get your protein.

Like, it doesn't matter if you eat it before or after.

No, no.

I think actually you're supposed to eat.

It within 30 minutes after I consulted my. My.

Logically, it's like you work out, you break down everything and then you refill.

Everyone has different answers for everything. So.

I don't know, bro.

No, I. I don't know the answer. I'm just. I work out and then I recover rather than I recover.

None of us look like her mosi, so we should just all try for 10.

I'm not saying take health advice, but that's what I always understood.

Let's just do a team HGH cycle and see what happens.

Honestly, we probably hit a record month.

Hgh?

What's that?

Human growth hormone.

It's like testosterone.

Oh, is that something like what Rogan would take?

That's what her mozzie takes too.

Oh, so he's cheating.

No, he's not cheating. He's doing.

I'D look like hormones.

He's doing trt, which is a little bit different, but.

So if I took trt, would I look like hormones? That's the question.

Why?

It's just, you might. Bro, You're Lebanese. You can put on muscle easy, but.

It makes it a lot easier for him to look like that.

Yeah, you have to first get your testosterone.

I think Alex Becker's on that.

I have no idea. I don't even know what Alex Becker looks like.

Oh, he's definitely. Dude, did he see, like, his tweets? He talks about how he took, like, the protocol. It's like, 30 different pills, a couple injections.

That's. I don't understand that. Like, if you have to think about it that much, like, something's wrong, I'll.

I'll see if I can find it. But, like, there is an Alex Becker tweet that's like, yeah. Started my morning with X amount of pills, X amount of injections. And I'm like, that can't feel good. Like, you're just juicing yourself with the most random things. Let me see.

Yeah, but it's probably the best money could buy.

I'm.

Yeah, I guess it probably feels amazing, actually. I think guys like that are just, like, chronic optimizers. So, like, every facet of their life, they have to.

I think it's literally just Becker and Hormozi. Like, I've never seen anyone, like, with this much intensity of, like, let's see. Yeah, he always posts on Twitter. He's up at, like, 3am or 4am it makes no sense.

Like, what are you doing sleeping on the floor? No bed.

Yeah, like, what is he doing? At that time, I thought he, like, had a huge exit and after that would just, like, fuck working, bro.

Why aren't you working at 3am, bro.

If I was working at 3am, I would be crashed at 3pm it wouldn't be any different than what I'm doing now. Yeah, like, it.

I never understood that. It's like, all right, you start at 3am, but by noon you're cooked. I don't know.

I'm trying to find the tweet because it's like, action. Same. Like, you put it out there. His entire protocol. I don't know. I don't think I'm gonna.

Anyways, it's a lot of things that he puts in his body. We'll just keep it at that.

I'm not gonna be able to find it, but you guys have probably seen it or know what I'm talking About and. Yeah, I just can't imagine taking that much stuff would feel good. Yeah, dude. I put like, one Zinn in and I feel like I'm spinning.

Yep.

A little bit different.

Yeah, maybe. But, like, I just feel like if there's so many different fluids and medicines entering my body, like, I. I wouldn't feel great.

Yep.

Or maybe I would. I don't know. I have to try.

If I had a ton of money, though, I would go and probably do something similar.

Why though? Like, what is.

Chris Williamson talked about this. The guy who runs the Modern Wisdom podcast.

Yeah.

About how, like, he started doing, like, TRT and, like, got his testosterone levels measured and just, like, had to take a bunch of. He's like, it's crazy how you just feel normal in any state, and then when you break through and get to, like, that next level physically, you're just like, wow, I can't believe that felt normal. Like, I felt like I was tired all the time. I just didn't realize it because it was just normal for me. So I didn't know any different.

So they just feel like they're always on.

Yeah.

Like, they never feel tired or like.

I'm sure they get tired, but, like, in comparison to what they felt before, they just feel way better. So it just leads you down this rabbit hole where you're like, more, more, more.

Like, how can I get more of this?

Yeah, like, with any drug. Drugs can be helpful.

I was going to say. Right. It's just drugs. At the end of the day, it's not like, natural.

Now when you take it too far is when you become like, that Brian Johnson guy was trying to live forever.

Yeah, he's like the biohacker.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's gonna die.

Usually, ironically, those guys live the shortest.

Yeah, he's gonna die young.

He just over.

He's thinking about it too much.

That's what I'm saying. Like, the over optimizers are usually the ones that actually end up getting exactly what they tried to avoid in the first place. How. I don't know if there's like, a rule for that or something, but that's usually the case. Like, you're trying to play God is. Is essentially what you're doing.

I think your mindset, like, if you're constantly just thinking about your, like, your health, it's just gonna you up. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

You gotta be like John Daly. Just keep going strong. Being a degenerate, playing golf, I don't.

Think he's going very Strong, bro.

He's hurting bad, and he still drives the ball like 3:30 legend.

He's hurting bad, though, bro.

There's a course in New York where there's a plaque on this. The hole, because he had an event there, and he hit it in the water on a par four, teed it back up, put it to five feet, tapped in for par.

He drove the green on a par four and parted.

Yeah. After he put it in the water.

Yeah, guys, I love that guy.

Good example of a downfall of a chronic optimizer is Tiger Woods.

Yo, chill.

Optimizer. He's degenerate.

No, but he used to, like, like, go through Navy SEAL training before.

Yeah, but that's when it was working, when he was doing that.

But that. It led to him getting, like, too muscular and his back. And he changed his swing eight times because of it.

He wouldn't have won as much as he won if he didn't do that. I feel like it was part of his journey.

He was muscular when he was good. He was skinny.

No, but when he got too muscular is when he started getting all those injuries.

Yeah, I. I think the mistake.

How do you hurt yourself that much playing golf? Like, his back. How do you.

He wasn't hurting himself playing golf as much. No point.

Oh, yeah.

I think that's. That's what I was getting at, too, is like, the biggest mistake Tiger woods made was off the golf course. It was never really what he was doing in the golf world.

So what'd he shoot, like an 86 or something this weekend?

Bro.

I was so pumped after the first and second round. I was very convinced he was gonna win.

What was he at going into the weekend?

He was, like, five back. And then that third day, he shot his highest round in the major of all time. So it. It was over after that.

His swing just looks, like, stiff.

He. Well, his swing looks great when he's, like, early on to the. The tournament, but by round three and four, he's looks like he can't move. He's just. He can't make it through a full four.

We should go to pop stroke in his honor and play around.

Scotty Scheffler, though.

What a guy.

Dude is a legend.

What a guy. 27 years old, just already two masters wins, and he's like, the yogic of the NBA. He just doesn't care about golf. No, he's just like, yeah, golf is. Golf is cool. It's like, golf is the fourth most important thing in my life. He's like.

He said it on number one. He said in the interview he cares so much about winning. Yeah.

But, like, recently, he's just like. They ask him, like, what does golf menu? He's like, really? It's. It's not just copy and probably. But Brooks kept doing it a lot better. He's doing it a lot better.

What? Brooks has more majors than Scotty?

Two Masters. Brooks has, like, four majors. I know, but Scotty's been number one for the longest time since anyone. Since anyone. And since Tiger Woods. Longest on the number one in World golf rankings since Tiger woods. And I don't know, in terms of majors, I think Scotty's up there, and he's younger, too. That's just Masters. He doesn't have any other majors. But Masters are the Super Bowls, bro.

Yeah, that counts as, like, three.

Yeah.

So it's really got six.

That's like Phil Mickelson. He's like, one of the greats. Not because of how many majors, but how many Masters, specifically. True. That's the super bowl, bro. That's why Rory is like, yeah, it's cool. He's won a couple of majors, but he's never won a Masters.

So it's like, yes, Rory. No, damn.

He's still. The Masters is what he needs to complete the Grand Slam. And that's why it's like, every time the Masters comes up, everyone's like, oh, man. Like, do you think Rory can finally do it? It's. To complete a Grand Slam in golf.

Is like, stinks, though. I mean, he doesn't want to major in, like, over.

I know he's not been good for a while, so I don't know. I don't know. Golf is pretty boring, though. I don't think our audience wants to hear much more about this.

Yeah, no, we can move on. Let's talk about Liskit, because another thing that's been happening. We don't need to share any numbers, but in the last month or so, you've been able to get Churn Rate down, and it's been just dropping precipitously. So what goes into that for a software company?

Just.

Just. Yeah. Is it all the new plans or what?

There's so much that goes into Churn Rate, but I think the biggest learning with SaaS is, like, churn is. Is the biggest killer of revenue growth. We had, like, great revenue growth early on. For the first 90 days, we, like, sped right to a million dollars in ARR. And then it didn't flatline. It just wasn't growing as fast as we Wanted it to for a long time. And that's because Churn Rate was basically fighting growth. Right? Because basically what is Churn? It's like if you sign 10 new customers, but your churn rate's 25%, like those customers are gone literally within four months. And so if you don't replace 10 new customers every four months, you're declining in growth. And so like, yeah, what percentage even.

Measure, like how many leave every month?

What's that?

The percentage of your user base that leaves.

Leaves every month.

Every month. But. And then the user base grows. So what helps Churn is the fact that you also have so many new users coming in. Right? Because that affects the Churn rate because it makes the user base larger. So 10 out of a thousand is a lot more than 10 out of 2,000.

Yep.

Right. But yeah, Churn rate is like the biggest killer. And for our agency, it was always like a metric that didn't change like dramatically. Right. It wasn't ever like it went from 10% to 25% really quickly because there were only so many clients. But for something like List Kit, when you have, right now we have over 1200 active users. Dude, I can't go and talk to 1200 people and figure out whether or not they're thinking of canceling. Like, you just find out when they do and then when they do, it's really hard to collect a reason because there's not enough buy in. Like you're on meetings with them before, like you were at an agency and you had some form of communication with them. Most of the time you have no idea who these people ever are and you never will because it's just such high volume in the amount of customers. So Churn Rate is just something that, like, if you're not really paying attention to it like every day and tracking like, where is it going and why is it going that way it's going to get out of hand. And that's exactly what happened. But yeah, in the last month we took Churn from all. I mean, I'll say those numbers specifically the height was 23.8%, which is frankly like embarrassing of a Churn rate all the way down to now just under 13%. So like less than half of where we were at a month ago. And some of the ways we were able to do that is number one, I think the most obvious is just improve the product. Like if people are churning at that percentage, it's probably because the product's not meeting their needs. And so you improve the product and then Once you improve the product, a lot of times you can improve the product, but the users don't know that it's improved. And so you have to help them like, understand how to use the product in the way that they want to. Like in a way that gets them the results that they want. And so you do that through like we have one on one onboarding calls with everyone who signs up to list kit to make sure that they know how to actually use like the different features that we've built. And then we have customer support. Like our team there is amazing. We now have 18 hours of support every single day and on weekends with a three minute average response time. So like there's no way you reach out to our team and don't get an answer like before you leave the tab or the computer to go do something else. So it's just a bunch of little things. And then, yeah, like Christian said, pricing plans too. Like it's going to be a lot easier to justify paying $79 a month if I get 2000 credits as opposed to a thousand credits. Yeah, it's just like the value of the service you're now offering, you're able to justify keeping it a lot longer than you were before. So those are most of the things that go into churn percentage and taking it down.

What goes into building a support team like that that can be online basically 24 7, that can hop on calls with 50 plus people a week when it's, when it's busy. Like how did you actually structure that team? Like, where, where are all these people? How'd you, how'd you build the avengers that you got on the support side.

Now, bro, the secret is like all of our support team except Bryce. So Bryce was a unique scenario because he was someone that wanted to join Client Ascension. And so we bartered a deal where we let him into Client Ascension and in exchange for being on our support team. So like the nice thing about having businesses that other people get value from and like are actually interested in buying from you, it's like you can use those services to help grow other ventures that you have going on. Right. Like we talked about this before, the best hires, even for Client Ascension, come from the Client Ascension community itself.

Yeah.

And so that was where Bryce came from. And then the rest are all in Lebanon. And so like that's probably our biggest secret, if there is one. It's just like hiring really cheap talent from Lebanon. But like these guys are not like your typical VAs in Pakistan or Ukraine or wherever else people hire VAs. Like in. What are some of the other places? Like Eastern Europe or Philippines. Philippines or like, some places down south. So, yeah, it's nothing like that. Like, Christian, you're on the call today with some of the guys. Like, they're just like me. Like, literally just like me. They speak like me, they joke like me. They understand American culture the same way I do. And they're the hardest workers in the room every single time. And so you just give them a mission. You give them really good pay, which to us is like, not a big expense really, comparatively to, like, what they would be getting paid.

Yeah.

Or what we would have to pay an American to do the job. And then I think the. The good thing about Lizkit and how we built the support team is you show them the numbers and the results of their work. So, like, them seeing the churn rate at 23.8 pisses them off. Them seeing negative reviews pisses them off. And so then them taking all these actions and saying, okay, now the churn rate's here. Now the reviews are saying this like, they're hyped, bro. We had an ice cream party last week because they were so hype.

How do you get ice cream over to Lebanon?

Oh, they just took it out of their phrase. Actually, it was during Ramadan, so I felt bad. So it was just me and Bryce that was terrible. But we rescheduled another one for when we're under 10% churn.

Right.

Or when we get 100 positive or five star G2 reviews. But yeah, it's just hiring cheap talent in Lebanon. And I think the fact that I'm also from Lebanon, so I can, like, understand their culture and speak to them about things that are happening in the country. Like, these guys are like my brothers. Like, I actually love these guys. Like, it's the most fun I have running the business is getting to meet and interact with these guys and help them. And then just like, anytime you hire someone, find out what motivates them. It's not always going to be how much you pay them. Like, they all have their own individual goals that I can help support. Like, for example, one of our guys wants to visit Japan one day. And so, like, he sets aside money every single month. Berhan, he wants to visit Japan. It's like a lifelong goal for him. Huh.

He's an anime guy.

No, he's a gamer. He's a gamer. But, like, helping him to. To reach that goal through the work he's doing for Liz Kit, like, it just gives him a higher Purpose rather than I'm just answering angry customers on intercom day.

Yeah.

If that's the job description and that's all it equates to, then you're never going to find someone that's good at the job and that sticks around and does it as long as you want them.

Only going to intercom later and just see what I haven't like, I haven't checked there in months.

You would be blown away by some of the things that these guys are shielding us from and just dealing with on a day to day and like the attitude that they bring. I mean, Dan knows than anyone. Dan.

Dan would be like, I'm going to lunch. I'll log in. I'm like, fuck, come back from lunch.

Yeah. For like the first month you were.

Managing like six weeks, dude. I remember I went to New York City right when we launched. I was traveling and like I was literally just sitting in a bar and it was with Max, with Julia, with a couple of her friends. And they're like, dude, what is wrong with you? Because I'm just sitting in the corner, not socialized. I'm just like the whole time because it's like super busy. It's on launch. Like credits aren't loading in the account. You know, people are like just freaking out about all like the different bugs. The system's down, remember we'd have to wait. Yeah.

We'd have to reboot it and you change servers.

Change servers. You'd export a list. You'd have to wait three hours. The list isn't anywhere but the credits are taken out. And I just like, they're like, do you want another drink? I was like, yeah, give me two.

It's like whatever I get, whenever I lose, I just go on my phone the whole time.

What is that from?

I think you should leave. Of course.

Of course it's gonna say no problem.

Being on my phone the whole time.

Yeah. Those first couple weeks and intercom was not, not the most fun I've had running, running these businesses. But it was, it was a good experience because then I was like. When I was finally away from it, I was like, wow. It was like the sun was out again.

No, I know, it's. It's a pain, dude. It takes a really like, patient person that can like see through the negative messages that they're receiving all day, every day. So just like be positive. Like Berhan, if you interact with him in Saeed, if you interact with him, they're the happiest people. Like the messages that they receive and the shitty people that they have to sometimes deal with, like, do not affect them at all. Which. That. That's. I couldn't do it. Like, I just get pissed off. I'd fight with the customer. Like, I get so offended. That's why I'm not the person doing the role. And same with you. Like, maybe you're going to get offended.

But no, I definitely did in, like, the first two weeks. And then you get thick skin, you kind of just like, detach a little bit.

Yeah, it's just like, it's not a fun role if you're not built for that environment. So it's. We're lucky that we. We have guys that are, because that's. That's like one of the most important roles. I know if I'm using a software, like, for example, like, when I was flying back to Binghamton, like, there are complications with flights because of the. The storms and everything. So I'm like, messaging Delta, like, which is a massive airline company, and I'm, like, getting pissed off that they're not responding to me. I'm like, my flight is about to take off. I can't go on it because if it takes off, I'm going to miss my connection. I'm going to be stuck in Detroit. And if I don't get an answer from you, I don't know if I'm even going to get a refund if I don't hop on this flight. So, like, the response time matters.

Yeah.

But, like, they're not responding to me fast enough. So I'm like, getting pissed off. Like, if I read the messages back, I'm like, what the fuck? You guys are assholes. Like, why are you not getting back to me? Like, just a chain of messages. And I'm like, oh, damn. Like, imagine. Imagine Burhan's like, on the other side, dude, I got to lighten up. Yeah, but yeah, like, it's such an important feature for any online services. Responsiveness. People are not gonna wait around for an answer these days and be happy about it. So that's the biggest thing with ListKit. And then we have a really exciting product roadmap. A lot of things we're working on. And then we have an offer on the sales side that's working extremely well.

Yeah, the setup offer. And it's really amazing just because it's like the perfect offer to one, liquidate ad spend, but two, just acquire customers that are gonna be in a better position to stick around for a long time. Because for. For people who don't Know what the whole crux of List Kit is? I'm sure you do now, but it's for people who need verified B2B contact data. @ the moment we've got a bunch of other stuff rolling out, but in order to need a bunch of that data, you need to have the proper systems in place to actually reach out to all those contacts. Because we're not reaching out to people, we're not calling them for you, we're not doing any like managed services. So you need to have a system where you can actually just easily load up all that data and send it out in a way that actually converts customers. And we obviously know how to convert customers because that's our whole background with Knowledge X, with Client Ascension. So we had all these people who were purchasing data and they're like, what do I do with it? It's going to take too much work to send them all messages manually. So we were like, hey, why don't we just build them out a system that can actually reach out to thousands of prospects in a way that hits that volume that you need to actually see results without sacrificing quality. So it's just like the perfect way to not only get a new customer over, deliver on the first service because we, we undercut the market on like what anybody would charge for that. There's a lot of people who have done a email setup offer before for a lot more. Yeah, 3, 5, 10k. Like they're always charging way, way more than we do, but it's kind of just like another long term play saying like, hey, we don't profit anything on this offer up front, but it's going to help with retention, it's going to help with ltv, the average revenue per customer simply because these guys actually have a system to feed that data into and we just sell them the system. And it's been massive for just the sales team on our end and just like coming to meetings and not having everybody be fucking pissed off because it's.

Higher ticket up 79 1, 79 deals is no fun.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I can sell something that's a little bit more expensive than get a higher commission and win, win, win all around for us like the founders, for the sales team and for the end customer.

Yeah. I think what I've come to realize about like growing List Kit and growing Client Ascension is like you get to a certain point where you can't grow anymore with just one core product because it's too big of a leap for someone to make from where they're at to like where you need them to be to just start using your product like client, essentially we talked about in the beginning list kit we talked about now. And so what you need to do is build out like a suite of other products that are like, essentially like a step in the process to getting to using the end service that you really want them to use. Like getting them in the client attention or getting them to subscribe to Liskit and doing it in a way where you can break even. And then you get a healthy percentage of those guys to convert to your end service. And you essentially just got people in your end service for free. Yeah, you're. You're basically buying leads or getting leads for free, fulfilling that first service and then those are now trickling into your main service for free because you're not having to repay for those leads in the form of like ad spend or any other marketing.

It just takes a fuck ton of.

Sweat equity, sweat equity time. You have to have the right people. Right. Because to fulfill a setup offer at the volume that we're doing now, with what, 10 to 20 new setup offer clients coming in every single week, like, you need a massive team to do that.

Yeah.

And a massive team is not easy to manage. And it's not cheap in all in the ads as well and the sales guys and the commissions, like, it's not an easy operation to swing. Which is why I'm saying, like this is not something we implemented early on because we didn't need to. We could just scale up to where we got to. But to go to that next level, it's just become really clear to me that there needs to be a focus on these lower ticket products to buy the leads or essentially get paid to get the leads. Because in some of these funnels we're actually profiting, like with Internet money. We're getting paid to get leads for client ascension is really what we're doing. And like that's a beautiful business model.

Yeah, it's like with list kit, we were just selling, we're selling gasoline and you have that initial table rush of everybody who has cars. I go, yeah, I need gas. Then we just got to a point where everybody in our organic audience that had a car, they'd already like driven off. And then we were just selling gasoline to a bunch of people that had no car and they like trip over themselves, they light a cigarette and they light themselves on fire. So now we're just giving them the car.

Yes.

Knowing that they're going to come back to Us for gasoline.

Yes, that's it. That's a beautiful way to describe it.

Yeah.

How do you come up with that?

So you just think in metaphors?

Wait, I used to say that.

No, like, with anything, though.

Like, with analogies.

Yeah, you just. If you just explain. And like, I use that same analogy on. On sales calls. Not that same exact one, but similar. Like, car. Like, with the training that we give to you. Like, we also teach you how to drive a mechanic. Right.

Okay.

Yeah.

Like, we give you the owner's manual. We teach you how to fix up the car when it's broken down because it's not a managed service.

Right.

Like, you have to actually change it on an ongoing basis. But yeah, analogies, metaphors to help in sales.

Yeah, that's that. I mean, I just understood what we do a lot better.

It's always the dumb.

I might buy after this podcast.

It's always the dumbest. That works well, too. Like. Like with. We were going back and forth with Temple to fix up our client ascension script, and it's like, all, like, you know, imagine you go to a fishing store and you buy the most expensive fishing pole, and it's always like, just like that just works.

Stories.

Yeah.

That they can visualize.

Because think of, like, I don't know, everybody works at Company for the most part.

Right.

And if you're a B2B company, you're going to need data. But still, so many people are like, what the is this? Like, when you try to explain to somebody what you do? Like, my mom. No idea what we do. But if you explain it like that, she's like, oh, okay, that makes sense. She doesn't know the answer.

She's like, I'll say, you sell cars.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And gasoline.

Good enough.

That's what your mom thinks.

Literally, like, yeah, my son's in the automotive industry.

In the oil industry somehow. Yeah, that's. That's what I'm. I'm in charge of the oil sector.

Yeah. Yeah. You in the Middle East.

Yeah.

And Lebanon's, like, ocean square miles. I'm sure there's plenty of room to drill.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Yo, are you a boobs or a Buckeye Dan?

Yo, what is. What is with that?

I don't know.

It's the most random trend we've ever seen.

Wait, I actually. Hold on.

Explain what?

This will be a podcast exclusive. Please playback. Because I answered some guy, I was like, who is teaching this? And he sent me a voice message. Let's listen.

Just a marketing stunt from our company to help get more outreach. So the reason why I'm actually reaching out to you is because I've seen that you run a coaching business. And what we do, we take coaching businesses as they are. We take them to the next level. Money, gain more clients, help the business grow. Now, I'm not going to bore you with any of these details, so if you are interested, just let me know and I can send you some more information about it.

It's always like, the Eastern Europeans who.

Were like, yeah, just no awareness of any societal norms and think they're funny and they're.

It just. It. It doesn't work. No, they just get made fun of on Twitter for a week, and then everyone moves on.

And I met this kid the other day who sells water filters to athletes, like, in home water filters. And they got Shaquille o' Neal by sending a water emoji.

What? Swear.

Then their follow up was, what's up? I'm gonna try that with my hat. It's just happening.

I love that, though. It's like the detective emoji.

Yeah, I'm gonna try that with my hat.

Just, like, when you try too hard with, like, to just get someone's attention for something that is completely unrelated to what you're selling.

Yeah.

Like the example you were just talking about, it's just like, no, no. It's just. No, like, you're trying way too hard.

I'm gonna tweet that right now.

Yeah, the weird, like, misdirect. It never works.

Yeah. Like, how do you think this conversation is then gonna swing back to something serious about business? Like, it just never will.

I just mess around with the guy. Like, I'm a boobs guy. Send pics.

Show me your moms. I'll be like, brother, I thought I was good. I'm not gonna respond, bro, cold DMs are terrible.

I was. I put out a tweet yesterday. I've just been getting randomly. You're in my account, so you probably see it too, but I'm getting dms. Like, thanks for following me. Like, I noticed you just started following me. I'm like, dude, I haven't followed anyone on Twitter in, like, weeks. Yeah, like. Like, these guys just turned on an automation.

The best DM strategy is, like, you have to give free value. Like, yo, bro, I made a YouTube video outline for cold email. Want me to send it? That's all that works.

And, like, it's actually a YouTube outline for them. It's not like a template or a swipe file that you're Going to send everyone else. Because then it's just like fake value. It's like manipulating them, thinking they're getting real value applied to them, but they're not.

It's just common sense. Like, if my first interaction with you is you manipulating me to get what you want, why would I buy the next thing? It's. There's just such a logic break, but it's just something new. So you know that somebody sold him on that as like this new thing that other people aren't doing.

Yeah. And shouldn't be doing ever. They forgot that part.

Yeah.

The logic.

So dumb.

Yeah. New shit sells. But unfortunately, it's usually just the same.

We gotta. Probably gotta wrap up here in a minute. This is like a hard, hard, hard pivot. But Christian, I want to know what is the appeal of Caitlin Clark? This is like a hard pivot. I'm just so interested.

She's literally made women's basketball relevant.

How could women's basketball be relevant?

Exactly. She did the unthinkable.

Hear me out. If Christian put on a wig.

You hear what some reporters said to her today. Some wild.

Oh, yeah, that was weird.

He's like, do that to me. I'm like, what the.

Yeah, what? She was like.

Some reporter was like.

So she goes like this after she makes or after a games, she does it to her family in the crowd. And the guy like, did that. And she was like, oh, like, you like that? And he was like, yeah, I love it now that you're here. And then she was like, oh, yeah, I do. It's like my family after games. He's like, yeah, well, do it to me. We'll get along just fine. It's like a creepy border.

But like, dude, I don't know. So it's a bad position for him to be in because, like, no, it's weird.

Like he forced the issue on the question.

But she made women's basketball relevant.

She was like, she's like the female version of Jim.

Or for that.

When he was.

Okay.

So, so entertaining that you just can't look away.

Probably. I never looked in the first place. I don't think I've ever seen it.

I know, I know. But social media, like, she. Dude, she. I think it was her and another girl, actually, that were top of the nil earnings for all of college basketball. It was like one and two were girls and then guys came afterwards.

That's insane.

But no, she just pulls up from three, which is like, you're not. You're never gonna have a girl. That's dunking.

Like. Like, how fun is it to watch a girl, like, shoot three pointer?

She's good.

It's fun.

Dude, how have you not even seen a highlight, bro?

Hater, Bro, I watched, like, some of the national championship game they lost.

Yeah, because it's only her.

Yeah, she had, like 40 points. It's like when LeBron was on the Cavs and lost to the Warriors.

Yeah, bro, you just compared CAITLIN Clark to LeBron.

Yes.

It's like degrading to the goat.

No, it's not. It's about. It's. There's. I said this yesterday. Like, there's something fascinating about watching somebody who's so much better than their peers, regardless of what it is. I'll never watch swimming again. But when Michael Phelps was swimming, it was like a point of television.

When that one trainee was cooking the girls, I was like, greatness.

Leah Thomas. You're a big Leah Thomas guy.

Yeah.

All right.

On that note.

Anyways.

All right, thanks for watching.

Peace, guys.