Black & White Truth About Benefit Advising Ep. 3: The Power of Discipline

Hey.

Hey. Welcome back to the Black and White Truth About Benefit Advising. I am Andy Neary, and I am enjoined by the one, the only, Kareem rk.

Let's go, baby. Let's go, man. Happy Valentine's Day.

From the big D. You're from the big B.

From the big D. I'm representing my red wall today. It's Valentine's Day, so we're just here to show a little love today, Andy. That's all it is, little love.

I thought we were gonna talk, make things a little bloody today. That's why we had to love her.

Well, yeah, that's. That's really the truth, but, I mean, I thought we started with love first. We're gonna patch them back up and level them again on the backside.

Let's start with the hat, man. I've been hearing word that the Tigers could be a team on the rise this year.

Hey, man, I'm.

I'm.

I'm sure hoping so, man. You know, at any anytime, you're here in the city, and I'm gonna call out my city's fans. They're probably gonna give me stuff for anytime you start claiming yourself as the Detroit Rams. You know, we need to win a championship around here, man. Just that we can have our own identity, man. So, you know, so I'm hoping that. That. That the Tiger's gonna come in and do something fantastic for us so we can call ourselves the Detroit Tigers, and we're not calling ourselves the Detroit Indians or the Detroit Red Sox or something crazy like that, man.

You think about it, though. I mean. Yeah, I mean, the. The Detroit needs a little sports renaissance, right? The. At one time, the Pistons were the thing. The Bad Boys. Boys. The Red Wings were the thing.

Yes, yes. And the Tigers, the Tigers, I mean, Tigers had their run and, you know, and gosh, it's been a dismal since. Since that time. It's been a long time. So I'm hoping.

And then the Lions. We'll just leave that at.

Just leave. It's the LA Lions, man. That's what I keep hearing. The LA Lions and Detroit Rams, depending upon who you ask.

So, Kareem, today we were talking about a word that is near and dear to both of our hearts. Discipline.

Oh, that's a. That's a. That's an ugly word there, man.

Yeah, the insurance industry doesn't like this word very much. You know, I know I was sold on the magic dream in 2002 that if I got in, just hung around long enough, I was Going to play golf three days a week. Average income in the insurance industry is about two hundred and some thousand dollars. And never once did I was I taught that you actually have to have discipline.

Oh man. You mean you have to do something?

No, I was taught see prospect, sell prospect, pitch product and you'll win.

And that's it, huh?

Yeah.

So how did that work out?

Talk about that. Let's.

How did that work out for you?

That's why if you go look at my resume, it's why I hopped around a little bit early on in my career, my friend. So let's talk about maybe before we get into what discipline means to each of us.

Yes.

Let's talk about just like in the industry because it is something that hasn't been focused on. Where do you see some gaps when it comes to that magic word discipline?

First of all, and for me, I think that people have a negative connotation on discipline. And I've never, I shouldn't say never, but as I grew in business and personal relationships, I got past it being a negative connotation and saying, okay, this is positive. This discipline is not a bad thing. I think that it's. If we look at from a childhood and however we were disciplined as children, we carry that along with us. And if all of that was negative, then we always think about discipline in nature being a negative thing. However, when you actually start looking at building a business, being engaged in a relationship, going through a four year institution, all of those things require a form or a level of discipline such that you can see completion, yet you can enjoy that journey. And so I've learned to embrace discipline because I was once taught if I did not discipline myself, I would be at the discipline of someone else. And that always made me nervous to say, well, wait a minute, you're telling me that I have the ability to discipline myself or I have to be subjected, if you will, to the discipline of somebody else. And that just didn't make sense to me. And so I think where I see those gaps are, are in those places where like you said, we've been sold the dream, we've been sold the magic elixir, the silver bullet and all those things. And we really don't believe that there's something that we must do, often something continuously, something with repetition, something that we do on purpose and with specific intent. And to me, all of those things embody and encompass discipline.

Yeah, and I think you just used a couple words that ring true at large in the industry. Silver bullets, magic elixirs, perfect Scripts, Yes. To me, that is the opposite of discipline, right? It's the. It's the focus on quick wins.

I agree.

I can remember I was talking to an advisor about four or five months ago, conversations as fresh in my head as it was yesterday. Like, I was telling him about what he should be doing to really build awareness for his business, and he literally stopped me and he said, yeah, man, I get it. I get all that stuff that you work, that you do for others, but I just want a script I can use to open doors.

And I just.

I don't know what else to tell you. I can't help you. Like, I am literally of no help to you if that's your focus. And I see that so often in the industry, man. It's like, I. I know. I know agencies, they host one webinar and if there's not five or six appointments out of that one webinar, they deem it as a failure. They don't ever do it again. Because you know what? It didn't work. And it's like, but you tried it.

Once, you tried it one time, and what have you and I done anything in our lives, right? Where we did it one time and expected to be an expert in it by doing it one time. You know, what typically has happened for us, Andy, is that through repetition, competition, and changing, looking at the game field to say, what can I do different? To me, there is nothing that I can look back on if I don't have any work in progress. So if I don't have anything that was behind me, how am I going to judge where I'm going? In the front of me, moving in the direction towards winning, man, I mean, I just don't have anything. So I've got to be able to link back to where did I go wrong, you know, and wrong, again, does not represent failure.

It's.

It just represents that something didn't work right. Maybe let me tweak this. Let me do something different. And I think when I started working with younger agents in my career, I just realized that again, they were all bought into, you know, kind of the midnight infomercial thing where we just going to be on the yachts and we've got beautiful people dancing behind us and their Champagne glasses and G5 jets and I'm like, you know what? Nowhere did anybody promise you that that that was going to be the thing? But when have you ever asked anybody about their journey and they didn't tell you about the discipline that they had to get to? So you can see the yachts and the people dancing behind you and the champagne and those things. And when I work with young advisors and still to this day, and I listen to what they do daily, what are their daily actions, what are the daily habits that they have in place, I don't find that they have any daily habits. And if they have something, they've written it down. But now I want to know if, have you actually done it? You know, and you and I talk about that all the time about, you know, talkers versus doers. I mean, you, you, you got plenty of people that are talking and very few that are doers. And the doers are the folks that I find that have discipline. So as we talk about that, maybe. Sure. Andy, when you think about your definition of discipline and where you've utilized discipline in your career, what does that look like? Because I'm sure be a, a major league baseball player.

Yeah.

That requires some discipline.

Well, and that's maybe the best place to go. And I know people have heard me talk about this, this journey, and I want to hear your thoughts on it too, of how you deploy discipline. But you just said something to me that, I'll be honest, frustrates me from time to time when I see people doing this. And I'm all about public accountability. Posting something so people can hold you accountable. You're making that big. You're calling your shot, as they might say. But I get frustrated when I see somebody who's worked out for a week and then they go on social media and post that. Look at me, I'm at the gym. It's like, dude, do that every day for two years, then call me. Exactly.

Exactly.

And so to me, that's where discipline starts. Cream. It's another word that's very analogous to. It's consistency.

Yes.

What are you doing day in and day out? If people asked me, what is my superpower? I'm not the smartest guy. I don't have all the right, the best strategies in the world, but I'm consistent as hell, and I'm gonna outwork you and keep going when you give up.

Going back to discipline and how it applied to my baseball career, I, I, you know, when I, my first two years at uwm, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, it was anything but discipline. I was following the wrong crowd. Quite frankly, our upper, some of our upperclassmen weren't the best examples of people to model.

Okay.

And I got off way off track of, of what it meant to be successful on the field. But my last two years at UWM I really realized what it meant to put in the work when no one is looking.

You know, at.

Speak on that for a few. Take. Take some time and elaborate on that.

Because Thursday night at 6 o', clock when.

Judges, the bar everybody went to is. Is holding 10 cent.

Tabs. 10 cent pictures. Pictures, by the way. Expired beer, I think it was.

I was at the gym. I was in the gym in front of a mirror working on my mechanics.

Okay.

I was lifting. I was. Whatever it took when nobody, you know, when everybody else was taking time off or everybody else was out partying.

Yes.

My last two years from an athletic standpoint, I got really serious about no, you need to put the work in every single day. And it was boring as hell. Standing in front of a mirror and holding a pose, a pitching pose and doing that over and over again for nothing fun about it is not fun.

Nothing fun about that, man.

But what it did is it put me light years ahead of my competition. And when I got into game like situations that move that, that, you know, whatever I was working on became that.

Motion that at that point is muscle repetition. It's muscle memory.

And so today I'll fast forward quickly today. Kareem, you know, when I think about what I do on a daily basis and I want to hear what you're doing from a habits perspective. One of the things I absolutely love, and I'm kind of nerding out on this, I'll admit it. Every morning after I jump in my cold shower habit. Number one, cold shower people go, why the hell do you do that? Number one, it actually has health benefits for your immune system. But number two, jumping in a cold shower, you know what that represents, Kareem, Tell me you're doing some hard shit. First five minutes of the day.

Yes, you are, man.

Putting your mind in that position. I just did something hard first thing in the morning. Bring out good morning.

It can't look after that. You know, everything else has to be easy. If you jumping in a cold shower. Top of the morning, man.

And by the way.

Not jumping in a warm shower and slowly turning it to cold. No, no, cold. From second one from.

From entry. Here we go.

We're in now. But the other thing that I do every morning that I've fallen in love with is I literally go on YouTube. I lay in my bed after the shower, I go on YouTube and I watch about 20 minutes worth of video. Nice. On a specific topic, whether it's crypto. You and I have talked about crypto.

Yeah.

Marketing, time management, happiness Joy, I don't care what it is.

Right.

I want to get smarter and better. And I know 20 minutes, one day may not seem like a lot. What's that gonna do for you? But now apply that for 365 days for four or five years.

Come on.

You're getting a college education in one year. In. In one year by 20 minutes a day, watching video on YouTube. So to me, it's those habits day in and day out, those things that don't seem sexy.

Yeah.

That when applied day after day, you look back, a year from now, you are going to be in a completely different place.

So. So I'm going to answer the question, but I got one question to ask you before we move on. What was the defining moment? So in baseball, you were hanging out at the location with the 10 cent tap beer. You're having a great time. And then the last two years, there had to be something that took place. What was that. What was that defining moment for you?

When the flip. When the flip switched.

Yes.

Switch flipped. Yes. Number one. I got to go back. Judges, I think it was Olympia beer they served. That's how bad it was.

Well.

That flip, Kareem, honestly, was. I was named captain.

Ah, okay.

And what it made me realize was, though I doubted myself at that moment.

Yes.

Apparently my team had faith in me, and if my team saw my potential, I better step my ass up and make it happen.

That's big.

And that's when I. That's when the self accountability came back.

That's awesome.

And I realized that, you know, no one else is going to do this for you. You have to show up every day and, yeah, let everybody else go party and have a good time. And don't get me wrong, I had my fair share of fun, but it's those moments day after day again. One day isn't going to change everything.

Correct.

When applied, week after week, month after month, year after year, you get light years ahead of everybody else, man.

And so as I think about that.

Yeah. Talk about your.

Yeah. And just my experience.

So.

So early in the business, and we've talked about this, just zero discipline. And. And I think the. The. The light switch for me is early in my career came in the fact that, you know, I realized that I was not living at the potential and for what I had envisioned. So I envisioned things for my life early on, but I was not willing to do the work. Now, if I was as committed to doing the work as I was and partying and hanging out, you and I probably would not have met each other, Andy, because I've been ridiculously successful. Because, I mean, I. I know how to do that well.

I know how to do that well. And so I think what happened for me is that I realized that I've got this window.

And.

And I don't know why at. At. In the middle 20s, that mortality table kicked. Kicked in for me at that time. But I was kind of looking at saying, well, look, I'm hoping that I'm gonna get 90 good years, but, you know, what if I only got 30 or 40, what would I do with the time that I have? And am I going to be accountable for this time? And so I think through just some experiences that I had, I started to really kind of think about that and say, well, you know, why am I waiting to 50 or 60 to decide that I'm going to do something significant with my life? And that didn't necessarily mean, financially speaking. It was just simply that I was looking at, you know, okay, I had. People had deposited me. Everyone told me that I could. I had great potential, but I wasn't living like that. And so I decided, okay, I've done this for a while. And what I realized was, Andy, I could always come back to this, right? This wasn't going anywhere. These folks have been there doing the same thing, and they're still doing it right now. Some of my good friends, I still remain friends with them, but I know where to go find them right now at this time, doing the same thing that they've done for the entire 25 years or so that I've been doing what I've been doing. And so, you know, I think it was that piece that I realized, man, you know what? I'm undisciplined in what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm writing down all the goals. I've got all the sticky notes everywhere. But there was no action on what it was that I was saying. I was reading all the books, I was listening to all the stuff, but there was no action and there was no consistency. And you just said, I would do it two or three days and be like, oh, heck. Well, I called on this knock on this many doors, and I still didn't get anything. Well, the whole plan that I read in the book was like, to do this over 21 days. Anytime you did over 21 days, it was going to be a habit. Well, by day four, I was already questioning whether this would work for me. And nowhere in there did they tell me to stop. And look at day four, they told me do it 21 days, and at the 21 days, then look back and see what you've created during that time. And I just got foolish enough to believe that I had been doing it the other way for so long, that if I chose to do it this way, maybe I get some different results, because I knew the results I was getting on the other side. And so I dove in, Andy, and just said, hey, I am going to discipline myself such that I don't have to go. In my case, I didn't want to punch a clock, I didn't want to go in, somebody tell me where I had to be in the meeting when I had to have lunch, how much they were going to pay me. And so I realized if I don't discipline me, then guess what? Some organization was going to discipline me and tell me when to come, when to go, how to perform, what my numbers should be. And I figured at least I would bet on myself first, Andy. And so that was the start of it. And I think the other example that I'll give you is something that you hit on as well. As I looked at and moved through the career, one of the other things that became important to me is that I said, well, if I'm going to be a healthcare specialist, consultant, broker, whatever we want to refer to, I. I got kind of burned out on seeing overweight consultants and folks in the space, man. And so I'm just gonna call. We said it was bloody, bloody Monday. I got tired of seeing and I was over. I had a little overweight. I was, my gut was there. And I'm sitting up here talking about wellness initiatives and bringing donuts to the meeting and I'm like, well, wait a minute, how am I the guy trying to help with healthcare cost containment strategies and looking at some things? And I was undisciplined. I was drinking at every function afterwards. I was, I did all of the stuff that was there. And I kept looking at myself saying, how am I a good example of a healthcare professional? And I look like this. And so I started working out. But what made me think of that is what you just said. I started in 20 minute increments, man, and over 20 minute increments by the time I was in my second year, then I was up to doing it 30 minutes, then I was up to 45, then, see, and now I'm a peloton junkie, you know, I mean, I'm gonna work out. I'm like my friend Andy Neary. The first thing I pack before I go is my Workout clothes, because it's important. But the discipline of that and my last thing. And I want you to jump in here, Andy, too. I'll tell you where I saw the discipline. So for years of that, I had the. The. The predisposition, if you will, of my doctor saying that you're pre hypertensive. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. I don't eat that bad. You know, I mean, there's some things I can do. And so I have this phrase in my office is that I don't want to be on a Skittle pack. And everybody says, well, what the hell is a Skittle pack? I'm like, I.

All those blue.

Those blue green, yellow peels. I don't. I don't want to be in a damn Skittle pack.

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, man.

I'm like, I. I don't want that in my life. And so my la. I just had a physical just about three weeks ago, and my blood pressure was normal. He was like, whatever you're doing, you have done a good job. But that didn't come year one. That didn't come year two. Even I avoided. We want to put it on statin. We want to put you on low desk dose of stat. We don't put you on low. No, I'm not getting on any of those things because what you're telling me is that my undisciplined nature of eating whatever, drinking whatever, smoking cigars on a regular basis, these are the things that are going to cause me to have to get to the Skittle pack. Well, I can be disciplined enough to stop these things over here to avoid the Skittle pack on the other side. So just that story that thought man talked about discipline, Andy.

Well, I have to admit, when I saw you in Nashville, I'm like, damn, is Kareem looking svelte these days.

And now when I know I'm hanging out with you, I'm like, here's a guy who's got mountain bikes up in the mountains, you know, I mean, this. This guy's a iron man. So I'm not gonna be the fat guy on the show. I can tell you that that's not gonna happen.

Well, but you bring up a lot of good points that I want to address quickly. Is, number one, I am right there with you. When I was delivering these health insurance renewal increases to my clients and saying, well, it's because your group's not healthy, I'm like, how in the world can I be doing that if I'm not healthy?

Correct.

I'm kind of a hypocrite.

Yes.

Number two, you know, you talked about the living, your full potential. Reaching full potential. I had a conversation with an advisor a couple of weeks ago and it triggered a memory in my past of being the guy. Everybody said, dude, that guy's got so much potential. And he said that in the call. He's like, I hate being the guy that everybody says has all the potential. And the gap between potential and execution results is discipline. And you know, to give you a real life example, Kareem, of what you just talked about with habits of nutrition and exercise, you and I were just at Ascend in Nashville.

Yes.

And I was invited to go to a dinner.

And the reservations were not until 8 o'. Clock. Now, one of my habits is I do not eat late at night. Not good for your health.

It's not.

And guess what? When you're going to dinner that, that late, you're also having a cocktail or two.

Correct.

Now, it's also a great networking opportunity. Right. So maybe you don't want to miss the opportunity. Well, discipline to me was, I said, you know what, that's great, I'll join you guys, but I'm eating dinner at 5 and I'll join you for a cocktail.

Makes sense.

Because my net, my discipline is I do not eat that late because I know what it does to me the next day. So I'm going to get eat when I know I need to eat. I will join you for the networking opportunity. But it's having that discipline to be like setting boundaries. I think discipline also equals setting boundaries.

Yes, yes.

We see a lot of our peers allow these boundaries to completely dissolve when the timing, you know, when you're at these functions and having a good time. But man, those habits of, it's got to apply not just to business, but to your life as well.

And I, and I think that those are the times where the discipline really matters. Because again, like you said, when everybody's watching, I mean, you, you know, you, you got to figure out at that point, can I stand alone and stay true to my beliefs at this stage that I don't eat at 8 o' clock at night, even though everybody's going to go in, they're going to eat well, we're going to drink well, it's going to be a great time. However, you know, that's not part of what I'm doing right now. So I'm okay standing alone and saying, you know what, I'm gonna go and network, I'm gonna hang Out. I'm gonna have a couple glasses of water or whatever my soft drink is. I'm not drinking at this point. And again, we're not saying no drinking because I'm. Again, I'm gonna cocktail. I'm gonna. But that discipline. If I know I don't want to show up at my next visitor with them telling me that now my numbers have shifted and changed when I know that I had a direct impact on what was happening with them before, I've got to rethink about that. And it's the same with our business. When we're looking at the numbers and we look at somebody that gets that quick shoot, I see. See these reps that come in and they may have that fast start where they just go and. And right up front they. They go. And they kind of knock the ball off the COVID And then six months after that, they hit this low because they haven't figured out they had that immediate success. But it was based upon whether they had a great contact list at that time. It was based upon that they network with these folks over here. But there was no consistency of filling up the pipeline. There was no consistency. So now when they hit the wall, because we all going to hit it, it's part of sales. And I don't care what you sell. You could be selling candle wax for all I care. You're going to hit that wall if you're doing this year over year. And the only thing that breaks you through, in my opinion, is discipline. Because discipline can be measured, right? That's not emotional. I'm not feeling this way. How I feel doesn't matter if I get up and I pack my clothes and I put my workout clothes in. I mean, I did that on purpose, right? That wasn't about whether I felt like doing that. It came down to, well, what are the disciplines that I follow? And that when I follow them, I've got ultimate goals that I know that I want to hit. And because I'm disciplined in this respective area, I can go back and look at why this did work or didn't work. And then when I come see you, Andy Neary, as a coach, and I can tell you, hey, here are the things that I've been doing, then you can actually help me to correct my swing. Because now you can actually see that I've at least been getting up to the mound, right? I've been at least been getting up to the plate to try to hit. I've been doing my part. But if I come to you and look for you to coach me. And. And I give you just how I felt about yesterday. I felt like I made enough calls in my head. I did X, Y and Z. There's not a whole lot that you can do with me until you get some film on me. And the film on me, in my opinion, is what discipline model I've been following. And then you're able to then look at that and say, hey, Kareem, based upon what you're telling me, I've seen this before. Hey, if you check this swing over here. If you look at this, look, you check up on that bat is a little different.