From BURN OUT to BALANCE and FULFILLMENT with Kyle Depiesse [Bullpen Sessions Episode 37]

Kyle, welcome to the show, my man.

Hey, Andy. How are you?

I am doing well. So, Kyle, for the viewers out there, I said your last name in the intro, but at the same time, why don't you just spare everybody who's looking at your last name right now and is trying to pronounce that. How do you say your last name? Depius depias. And you told me before the show started it's dep E. Yes. And then say it really fast.

And then say it looks complicated. It's not complicated. It's just dep E. Yes. Really fast.

Awesome. Well, hey, Kyle. One, thank you for being on the show. Number two, I'm excited for this interview because a topic or the topic we're going to talk about today, I have to admit I'm experiencing a little myself right now. Not so much that the corporate side of it because I don't work at a corporation, but the burnout side. So I think for the viewers out there today that are feeling a little burnt out and it's easy to be burnt out right now with everything that is going on in the world and the lockdown, just the negativity that so many people find themselves in, physical and mental exhaustion is very easy right now. So why don't we start here?

Okay.

Or again, the audience listening in who have no idea who Kyle depias is, tell us a little bit about who you are, where you're living today and what you're doing today, and then we will backtrack to the Kyle, the former Kyle, and where this all started. So tell us a little bit about yourself today.

Yeah, sure. So. And thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Andy. So I'm from Wisconsin, born and raised in Wisconsin. And in 2005, I moved over across state lines, went into the Minneapolis area. So my whole. My whole background is in business, finance. I went to UW Green Bay. I'm all Wisconsin sports. So just someone's listening. It's all Wisconsin.

Yeah. Why be on the show?

That's right. So moved over to Minneapolis and I moved to Minneapolis in 05 for target. Target headquarters. I got into the merchandising pyramid. So you go into Target and, you know, I was in the electronics area. So you see electronics on a shelf. It was my job to order that from the vendor and then get it into Target and put on a shelf and make sure it was in stock. So I did that for a couple years and then a previous boss pulled me over to Carlson residor hotel group, who owns radisson and country and Suites. And I did that for a few years. I managed a portfolio of hotels. My job was to distribute the room rate so you can go to Expedia, you can buy it on the website, you could buy it in a group rate, you could have a corporate rate, all those things. My job was to optimize that rate. So again, I'm using my analytical brain here. I like analytics. And then I moved on to video game distribution and in 2015, and my story is one of burnout. I hit an ultimate rock bottom of a burnout in my career in 15. Struggled for a while in that. And then I just left corporate America and I became a high school business teacher. And I did that for two years. And man, did I love teaching. I just, I really, my gift really is uncovering the process of learning for people. And I like to do that now in the work that I do, which we can get into later. But I really, really enjoy that. And I did that for two years. I'd probably still be a teacher, but when we had our son Cal In March of 2017, I decided, my wife and I decided, excuse me, that I would stay home because she's got a great job, she loves it, she's crushing it. It's flexible, it pays well, and yeah, I got promoted to being a stay at home dad for a couple years, for a season. And then last summer, fall, I launched my own business, which is creating experiences for high performers to help them avoid burnout by stepping into work life rhythm. So that's kind of who I am and what I do.

And I'm excited we'll get into reaching beyond in a little bit. And I think, I think especially for the men out there that are listening into this, they're going to really find what you're doing to be super cool. So let's unpack maybe the Kyle that, that you knew 10 years ago, maybe even 15 years ago. Go back to those days at Target, at Radisson. I mean, what. Just tell us a little bit about who Kyle was then.

Yeah, complete. I mean, completely different person. But I'd say on this conversation of burnout, it really happened because I was singularly focused on how I define success at that point in my life. And I define success in a really. It's almost embarrassing to say this, but I defined it as a very self centered and selfish pursuit. Right. How much money can I make? What kind of car am I driving? And again, I want to barf just thinking about this, because I'm saying it, but you know Having a corner office, having the big paycheck and the big bonus, the big comp and benefit plan, all of those things was how I define success. And then the weird thing is, Andy, is when you reach it, it's so empty and it's so unfulfilling. And you're like, man, I just work 70 hours a week for how many years? And I get what I thought I wanted to have, and I get it, and it's not what I thought. And that's a real kick to the midsection because you sacrifice things to get there. And if, you know, if you have kids or if you're married and you're in a relationship, you're sacrificing those things to have this selfish pursuit of success. And to me, that was my biggest realization. And I got it. I'm like, man, I don't like it. I do not like what I'm doing. I'm not happy. The relationships in my life are affected. I'm unhealthy. I put some weight on. Yeah, all things burned out. And so that was me 10 years ago. And again, it's. It's frustrating to talk about it, but maybe some people will find themselves in that story because we get caught up in that.

It's interesting because I was just listening to a Tony Robbins video this morning, and he simply said the phrase fulfillment over achievement. And so what advice, Kyle? Because let's face it, there's a lot out there right now, especially maybe in the younger generation that are just new to the corporate world or the working world in general, that are chasing the stuff, right? The cars, the houses, the money. Let's face it, social media things out there today make it seem like it's easy to do. What advice would you give that individual that young, maybe call it a young man that is out chasing this stuff?

I love the question. And to me, you've got success and you have fulfillment. And how I define fulfillment is using your gifts and your talents and your story to make an impact on as many people as you can. When you do that, the money comes because you're impacting more people. So I first say, align yourself with fulfillment in using your gifts and your talents and a story to make an impact on others. Another really simple piece of advice is PMT passion Market talent. If you've got a passion for something and there's a market for it and you're talented in it, that's how you can identify something that'll bring you fulfillment. And again, in return, when you're focusing on fulfillment, That'll bring you the success as well.

That's interesting. You bring that up. I love that acronym pmt. Passion Market Talent. When you were working at Target or Carlson, did you find a lot of your colleagues were there for the paycheck and not so much for the passion about what it was they were doing?

Yeah, I mean, not all, but many. And when you're at. When, you know, I don't mean to knock Target, but the culture at Target was, you know, every. Hey, every two years or so, you should be getting promoted to the next job. So it felt like this constant, like, jockeying of people around you to elbow them. And maybe, you know, if I want to make myself look better, does that mean I have to make them look bad? And you get caught up into this rat race of doing things for the wrong reasons, and it's so easy to get caught up in that.

Yeah. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a colleague in my industry, in the health insurance industry, which I spent many years in. And I just remember sitting there having a conversation with him about goals and what we were trying to get accomplished in that year. And I just remember him saying, all I want to do is be rich. And I just remember the moment he said that, I was like, man, you are going to have a rough road ahead if that is all you are focused on. Yeah. So, Kyle, you know, as. As you worked your way through Target, through Carlson, to the. The gaming company.

A lot of things were going on. Right. You were accumulating the stuff. But something I want to hit up, hit upon a little bit, you were also accumulating the debt. Mm. And I want you to share with the audience and a little bit how you got out of that. I think it's absolutely amazing and it's going to be super helpful for so many people. At what point when did you realize. Because it's kind of like Stockholm syndrome. Right. Like you're caught in the rat race of chasing, chasing, chasing. You achieve, but then it's never enough. So you continue chasing, chasing, chasing. At what point did you realize, like, holy cow, what am I doing?

Yeah, it's a great. It's like the inflection point. And it was Thanksgiving Day of 2014. And I remember this clear as day, because obviously Thanksgiving at that time, I was working for a video game distributor and I was doing their E Commerce. So when someone buys a video game on target.com, it was our company's job and my job to ship it to that customer. So Black Friday. Right. Is a huge, huge Day in E. Comm. And on Thanksgiving Day, I had my family in from Wisconsin. I had family in from the West Coast. We were hosting a Thanksgiving meal later on in the day. And I was up at about 3, 4am and I drove into work because I had work that I had to do to prepare for Black Friday. And I get to work, and I'm just thinking to myself, and I put a long day in, and I'm like, what am I doing? What is it for? I just left my family at my home who's visiting me from out of state. I don't get to see them that often. What am I doing? What is it all for? And I'm the only one at the office. And it's just really frustrating to me that I'm leaving, I'm making these decisions, and I'm sacrificing those that matter most to me as a result of it. What is it all for? And that was the day where I was talking with my wife. Shortly thereafter, I was like, I got to make a change. I have to do something different fast forward than a few months. And I just left corporate America, period, to go into teaching. But that was the day when I ultimately really, that I'm sacrificing those that matter the most for my job. And it just was not okay.

And you may have just answered the question, so what was it? Where was your mindset when you finally said, I'm out. I'm done? Because there are a lot of people sitting in that spot right now. You know, I talked about a lot with when Covid hit, the lockdown hit. And a lot of people, let's face it, had the time to reflect on, like, what am I doing? Where am I going? What was it? What was that moment or that mindset you had when you were just like, okay, I'm done, and I'm taking that step?

Well, I had, I'll tell you, for months, I struggled with, why don't I just walk in this morning, hand in my resignation and say, I'm out of here. I wanted to do that for months. And maybe a listener will resonate with that, because I'd go to a sales meeting and the owner of the company would. Would say, if you don't hit your sales numbers this month, I'm bringing Subway applications in for you next month, and you can apply for it. I was like, oh, what am I doing here? But we were tied to it. We were tied to it financially because if I left and I didn't have a job, well, that meant we go down to one income. But our lifestyle had ballooned to our two incomes. So I was stuck. I was essentially handcuffed. And we had to start unwinding the process of being, for lack of a better word, kind of chained to work, being chained to a job for income. And that process, as you kind of alluded to earlier, it took us some time to do, but we ultimately broke free from it. And that has just allowed us to have, for lack of a better word, just options and choice. And so we can get into that if you want, but that was our first step, saying, okay, never again will I be chained to something that I don't want to be. I'm going to make different decisions. And it really was that, like, man, why don't I just quit today? Why don't I just walk out? But I couldn't.

Yeah. So let's. There's a couple areas I want to go to because I want this to be. I think this. This interview can be super tactical for so many people. But I'm a storyteller, and one thing I love about storytelling is what does an individual look like at the beginning of the story? And what does he look like or he. She look like after the story? After. After the transformation? Right.

Y.

So going back to the days at Target, at Radisson, or at Carlson, I should say, emotionally, what were your. What was your. What were your days filled like?

Well, I mean, you wake up in the morning and you wake up to your alarm clock, and it's like in your head, you're doing the math. Okay, if my snooze is eight minutes and it's 6:30, if I hit snooze three more times, I start doing this math. I'm like, how many times can I hit snooze until the last possible minute to get out the door? But you play that scenario out. I don't get a good meal in. I don't get time to just relax or meditate. And that whole thing, I don't get good nutrition. I'm just drinking a coffee. I'm speeding into work. Imagine how that plays out each day. And then day after day, month after month, year after year, you turn into someone who gets to be a little bit cynical. There's some resentment in the work that you do, and that's going to show up in your work. So that's, you know, that's what it looked like. I was operating at a fraction of my potential, and I was cynical, and I was full of resentments. I had no motivation. But that's the, like, you know, just daily basic decisions turn into this snowball that turns into this monster. And if it's going the wrong direction, look out.

It's a ripple effect. Right. The money was good. Yeah, but, you know, and that's always the answer, but the money's good or the insurance is good.

And it's interesting, like, you just said that one little thing, trying to see how long you could go with the snooze button ripple effect that literally has on the rest of your day. People don't realize that. So here's a question, or maybe a question I have for you is if there's one or two steps, if there's somebody out there right now listening who's in that exact same spot, hey, the money's great. The insurance is great, but I am just not happy. I'm miserable. I'm burnt out. And I know I have this passion.

Yeah.

And I want to take the step towards stepping into a new life. I make good money. Our family might be needing that money right now because of the lifestyle we've designed. What are one or two steps that individual can take or conversations he or she needs to have with maybe his or her spouse to take those steps?

Yeah. I think that, like, the first question to ask with a spouse or a partner or even a friend is say something along the lines of, what's the worst that could happen? What's the absolute worst that could happen? And here's the kicker, Andy, is that the worst case scenario very. Might very well might be that you're currently living the worst case scenario. And so if that question doesn't just completely charge you up and gets you on a different path, I'm not sure what will. But looking in the mirror and having some of those tough conversations or something like, how do you want to show up in this world? Do you want to keep showing up as someone who is burnt out? And then when you come home at the end of the day with a loved one, a spouse, kids, and you're giving from an empty cup, do you want to keep showing up that way? You know, I think there's more to life than achievements, and there's more to life than accomplishments and things like that. Because, you know, my whole. My whole message is. Message is we don't have to sacrifice our personal balance sheet for our professional one. Because any success at home, you know, it's. It's not. Any success at work is not worth a failure at home. So you really have to figure out. Figure out, how do I manage the Balance of these things. And you have to start having these tough conversations you and I had. Have a good friend that just lost his dad, and you have to think about those things, what is more important in life to you and answer those questions. If it truly is money and success and titles and all achievements, that's okay. I mean, I'm not judging anyone, but I just want someone to be intentional on thinking through what's most important to you.

Yeah, I mean, I hope you just heard what Kyle said. I don't care how many zeros, commas there are in your professional balance sheet. If your personal balance sheet is sitting at zero, doesn't mean a damn thing. That was awesome, Kyle. Yeah. So, okay.

While you were accumulating the stuff, you were also accumulating another kind of stuff. Let's call it debt. And so many, I think, who are caught in the rat race to buy the house, the cars, the yachts, the whatevers also do so by racking up a ton of debt. And you found yourself in that same predicament. I think you had mentioned something like almost $400,000 in debt. But what's amazing to me is in knowing your story, getting to know you, for those of you who didn't hear, Kyle and I were talking before the show, he and I were in the same mastermind together. So that's how we've gotten to know each other. I'm more amazed in how quickly and systematically you and your wife paid that nearly $400,000 in debt off. So for the professionals listening in right now, again, who are dealing already dealing with maybe burnout from their current gig to the stress of everything that's going on in the world today. But now all of a sudden, they're looking at this mountain of debt, and they're having that oh, shit moment.

Yeah. How did you guys do that? Yeah. Well, the first thing that I think people have to understand is you don't just kind of happen to get into that much debt. It takes a while to get into that. I mean, I guess you could get into it really quickly, but to get out of it will also take some time. So give yourself, I think, patience and grace to do that. But, you know, tactically, we did Dave Ramsey's plan. We did it on steroids in the sense that, you know, we had a mortgage, and we're like, you know, what if we could knock the mortgage out in two years, let's do it. Because that would give us the ultimate freedom to say, okay, well, now I want to start a business. I don't have to have this sense of urgency to do it in such a way that my kid's not going to eat. You know what I mean? So we did it that way. But here's the thing that people will get caught up on. There's a lot of different ways to pay off debt. Systems, tools, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter the how. What matters is you sticking to the plan. The plan doesn't work if you don't work the plan so you can do what we did, a debt snowball. You could do another tool or system, a debt avalanche. None of it works if you are not convicted to make it work and stick with it. So if anyone is interested in the tactics that's listening, I would be more than happy to share that with them. And if they want to have a conversation on Instagram, whatever it might be, LinkedIn, whatever, send your listener my way. And I would be more than happy to share that with them.

Well, and Kyle, you know, I think what you, what it comes down to is consistency. You know, it could be the dame Sexy, it could be the Dave Ramsey plan, it could be the, the whatever debt, getting out of debt program that you and your family want to subscribe to. It's be consistent with it.

Yeah.

Don't get rah rah about it for a month and then all of a sudden let it trail off because the only thing that's going to happen is three months, six months later, you're going to be in a deeper amount of debt. And so, yeah, I mean, and I love what the fact you said that before you really put that plan in place. Take a breath and have patience and grace for yourself that you, this has happened. Yeah, right. Don't, don't, don't beat yourself up or judge yourself because of what's happened.

Yeah. It's humility to start. You got to have humility to say, well, dang, man, I got myself into this debt and I, I did it. No one forced it upon me. Maybe you just didn't know any better. That's okay. I mean, in order to make a change though, you have to be humble enough to say that if I want something different, I've got to do something different. And that's totally okay. But yeah, I mean, I wish it was. I wish there was this really sexy answer like we did. You know, consistency is so undervalued and overlooked, but that truly, I mean, with anything, if you just can be consistent, I mean, that's the ticket.

Well, Kyle, you know what I love about this conversation so far is there is no sexy answer for success. There's no hack, no short term strategy, no overnight success. It's patience and consistency. And so, you know, and your message today is hitting home for me because it wasn't that long ago before I started the coaching business. I can remember having how many conversations with Amy where she finally looked at me and said, you know, if you don't make this move, I'm done supporting you. I'm done listening to you complain about the current position you're in. I'm done listening to you tell me how you want to take this next step but have failed to do it. And I'm therefore done supporting. For me, that was that gut check. Like, if you don't do this now, like you said, what's the worst thing that can happen? It might be that just what I'm in today.

Yeah, yeah. And, and people, you've got to hear that a burnout in that it was affecting your relationship and any professional burnout will spill over and affect any category of life. It'll just creep into everything.

Yep. Yep, Exactly. I don't care if you're an all star in the office, in the corporate corner office, if you suck as a dad, if you suck as a husband, if you suck in life, it doesn't matter.

Yes.

And I think there's too many role models, quite frankly. There's a lot of people that we've admired in history that we admire them for their professional success, but there's no way I would want to model who they were as a personal. In their personal life. So, okay, so we've talked about the burnout. We've talked about what Kyle was like 10, 15 years ago. Let's lighten this thing up again a little bit. So here we are, it's 2020. I asked you the question earlier. Describe a day in the life of Kyle, emotionally, what is that day in the life of Kyle Depias of 2020?

So you've done an ironman, right?

Yes.

Okay. So I tell people like this, it was. I've done one. I think you've done multiple, haven't you? So I don't have as, but I've done one. And one is.

One is gigantic enough, man.

So it took me just under 14 hours. Not fast, but I tell people, imagine yourself going out for a run. Maybe it's just a 5k, but imagine yourself wearing a weighted vest, full jogging suit, carrying dumbbells, and imagine what that would be like. It feels heavy. It feels like you're not Performing, you're not able to go as fast as you might like. And I'll take that off and I'll try that same run again. And that's how it feels. It feels that way because we've kicked the debt out of our life. I've aligned myself and I'm doing something that brings me so much fulfillment and joy. I get to spend so much time with my son and be such a big influence in his life. And that's kind of how it feels. It feels free, it feels not heavy, it just feels we're focusing on joy and what lights us up and what really fulfills us. And that's the Kyle Depias as it is here in June, early June of 2020.

Well, and being there for Cal at such a young age or such a, such an important age of influence, if I do my math right, he's three.

Yeah.

So tell us a little bit about what you're doing because I think the concept itself is quite frankly genius. Here's why. And I don't in any way want to offend anybody by what I'm about to say. But Kyle, we can agree obviously for the past, I don't know, two years, there's definitely been a movement of what we could call the she boss movement. Right. Empowering females in leadership position, which is absolutely needed today.

Yeah.

But at the same time, I think what it has caused a lot of men to do is feel like they have to take this secondary passive role in life. And I think there's a lot of men right now dealing with burnout, dealing with mental health issues that are going unaddressed because they feel like they just need to keep their mouth shut.

Yeah.

And I love what you're doing with trying to create an experience for those types of males. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing today.

Yeah.

So last year, basically I looked at the situation that I was in. Burnout, not showing up as the husband I wanted to be. I wasn't a father then when I was burned out, but if I had been, I certainly would not have been showing up as the dad I wanted to be. And I said, what would I have needed? What would have been really important? What would have really helped me then? And I basically just designed something to satisfy that and to work on that. So, you know, in short, I create experiences that high performing, high achieving men step into to allow them to connect with other like minded men to enjoy something fun, a world class experience and just spend time with other guys who are, who are having Similar things going on in their brain, in their head. So last fall we went up to the north shore of Minnesota on Lake Superior. It was fall, it was cool. We brought helicopters in right at the resort, flew up, went over some of the waterfalls. In March, right before the coronavirus, we did a dog sledding trip in northern Minnesota. I've got another one coming up in the fall. But I just, I want to bring men and I want them to take a pause from their day to day, and I want them to step into an experience that they probably wouldn't have done on their own. Highly custom, highly curated. And I just want them to be spending time with other men that are trying to show up as the boyfriend that they really want to be, as the husband, they want to be as the dad, as the, as the leader in their business, as a C suite, whatever it might be, as an entrepreneur. And I just, all I have to do is create the container. I bring these guys in and we facilitate, I facilitate conversations. We do some really fun things. And the conversations that happen are truly transformational because as guys, high performing guys, we are really good at putting our head down and cranking out work. We suck at connecting with other guys and just saying, hey man, how's it going in your relationship? How's work going? You've always had this idea to start a business. How are you doing with that? And when you just get that together, just truly some magic and some beauty comes out. So that's what I do. It's kind of funny. I never intended it for, for it to be all guys, but last fall, the 10 that showed up all guys. And when I watched unfold what I watched unfold throughout that weekend, I was like, wow, I clearly need to do this for guys because there's nothing else out there like it. Women are great at connecting with each other. Men suck at it.

Well, and what I love about what you're doing with reaching beyond is multiple things. Like you said, what do men typically do when they are faced with a problem, Whether it's burnout or even a problem at work? We end up working more because we think going and attacking the problem is going to solve it versus pausing, taking a step back, taking a break, letting our mind expand and open up and realize it's pausing and stepping back. That is what lets us solve that problem in our life. That's one. Number two, you're doing it with experiences. Let's face it, we are in an experience economy today. People don't like sitting in the back of a hotel room going through a workshop anymore. And number three, it's doing it in the mastermind format, which is how you and I met. But that mastermind of especially for men, guys, you don't have to do it alone. If you're going through hard times right now, whether it is burnout, massive amounts of debt, marital problems, whatever, you don't have to do it alone.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think like you said, as men, we put this chest of armor on that we think we have got to go through it as warriors and fight, take on this battle ourselves. And that's just not the case.

Yeah, yeah. You know, the lone wolf thing is something that we try and do so much and it's so unhealthy, and it's really fun because we do this in. We do these experiences doing things that. If I can get someone to jump into an open door helicopter and then hover a couple hundred feet over a waterfall, some guys are. That freaks them out. Some guys are like, can I skydive off this now? But if you can get people to step into a little bit of fear, get over the fear, and then you jump into conversation, like, where else might fear be holding you back? You can. You can penetrate the unwillingness to be vulnerable. When you do that with a group of people and you step into it together, it's. It's like doing the trust fall on steroids. You know what I mean? Like, it just. It's. It's doing a lot more experience. Being a teacher, people learn through experiences, so I learned that early on. And if I can create fun experiences that are outdoors in nature and doing cool stuff. Guys. Guys are all about it.

Well, and listen to what you just said there. You get guys uncomfortable during these experiences, right? You get them to step outside of their comfort zone, Step into fear a little bit. Well, if somebody's burnt out and they know they need to take that step away from that job, what does it take?

Stepping into your own, Stepping in. Out of your comfort zone, right? You got. You're faced with a load of debt that you have to start attacking.

Getting outside your comfort zone. And so it's. It's the same emotion. It requires the same mindset to take that necessary step in the right direction. And so we'll wrap it up here, Kyle. I mean, this is awesome. If you guys didn't hear what the name of Kyle's programs are, it's reaching beyond experiences. Kyle, before we end up, I'll give you a chance to let people know how they can reach out to you. Contact you about, about the next experience, which sounds like it's going to happen here in the fall of 2020.

Yeah, it looks like mid October. It's, it's 90% finalized. It is a once in a lifetime. It's our own golf. It's a once. It's a beautiful bucket list golf course. And I've designed an experience that people just can't get. I've got some connections in nascar, a pit crew team, and we're actually going to get a chance to work with the team and go through a pit crew on a race car and you just, you can't do that as an experience. So it's really fun stuff, once in a lifetime thing. So that's coming up in October. But I'm pretty active on social media, so if anyone wants to chat or they've got more questions on tactically, how do we go through the debt, I'd be happy to engage and share. I love to share on social media and talk. So Instagram is fine, LinkedIn's fine. Facebook, my website's Kyle Depias, and that's where a lot of the experiences are kind of housed and shared.

And we'll be putting all your contact information in the show notes as well.

Appreciate that.

I love what you just said about the next experience, by the way. So you're telling me you're going to go from birdies and pars to lug nuts and bolts?

I'm going to rate that, though. I'm just going to change the name now.

So if you're out there, you're a man and you're looking for a group of guys to have an experience with this fall and you want in one day go from chipping in birdies and pars to unlocking lug nuts and bolts.

That's great.

Reaching beyond is your experience.

I love it.

Let's finish up here. A couple couple final questions. Okay. So we talked about a lot, you know, going back to your days in the corporate world. Yes, things were great from a monetary standpoint. Things were great from the house, having the house, the cars, and all the stuff that you wanted. But you were burnt out, you were frustrated, filled with stress. And here you are today in a completely different world, doing what you love, waking up every day, getting to play the game you love. And it comes with a lot less stress, a lot more time. What if we could wrap this up in a bow with a piece of advice or two for that business professional that's out there today that is still sitting there.

Yeah.

Feeling good about his paycheck or her paycheck. But, man, the burnout, the lack of a personal life, the lack of showing up in his or her personal life. And they know what the potential is just beyond the other side. What would you say to them?

Well, it's a great question. And to me, if I look back, it feels like so long ago, but I remember what it's like. But also at the same time, it felt like this is going to take me so long to be where I want to be. And I think we completely overestimate what we can get done, maybe in a year. But if you look at 3, 5, 7, 10 years, you're going to underestimate what you can accomplish and what you can achieve and the different paths you can be on. So, you know, develop and cultivate patience, you and I. Again, back to the Ironman. When I crossed the finish line, I'm like, that's it. Like, what's next? And you know what I mean? Like, I trained almost for a year. Truly, the beauty of it, the growth and the joy comes in the journey. It's not the finish line. So, you know, kind of take heart, cultivate patience, and really just enjoy the ride because you're going to get to your destination and you're going to get there, and you'd be like, what's next? So enjoy the journey, enjoy the process, and be patient.

Yeah. With being a triathlete, I can tell you one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was the first time I did, the first Ironman I did, somebody just said, just realize it's going to be a long day.

And with triathletes, people immediately recognize swimming, biking, and running. Those are the three disciplines that go into a triathlon. Right. But really what people don't realize is there's four disciplines. There's swimming, there's biking, there's running, and then there's the mind. And I'm sure you saw this during the race once. Probably once you got off the bike and onto the run and realized, wow, I still got a marathon to go. It becomes a mental game from that point on.

Oh, yeah.

And it's no different in life. It's no different. Like you just said, you're staring at a mountain of debt, or you have finally realized how burnt out you are and miserable you are with your job. No matter how big the paycheck is, you have to realize it took a long time for you to get to that point.

It's going to take a while to get out as well. And so just have the patience and the grace to know it's going to be a long day.

Mm.

It's like it was the day of Iron Man. Right.

And so last question, because I love asking this question, thinking of the audience and the topic is what one book would you recommend somebody read right now? If you could pick a book.

Got it. A Million Miles in a Thousand Years by Donald Miller. And I'll give you same guy for.

Building a story brand.

Yeah, same guy. The whole, the whole thesis essentially is this. Donald Miller, the author, was struck with reflecting on this one question. Is my life interesting? Is it interesting enough to have a movie featuring you? And I got to thinking and I was like, that's really good. And I probably read that five, six years ago. And since that time we've done so much in our life to change and it's been interesting. But you have to define what interesting means to you. But is it interesting? And that's essentially the whole story of the book.

And so it's called A Million Miles in.

In a Thousand Years.

In a Thousand years. I'm gonna need to get that myself.

Yeah.

I have become a.

Multi time reader of his classic Building a Story Brand. It's good, but I have never read this book. So thank you for sharing that. I'm sure the audience will love that. Well, Kyle, thank you for your time, man. Again, I've taken so many notes myself because personally, you know, I love what I do. But I've also felt a lot of burnout lately myself, just going too hard. But if you're listening in right now and again, you're either, you're either in a job at the corporate level, doesn't even have to be at the corporate level, but just in a job where you feel like you're part of the rat race, you're chasing the next promotion, you're chasing the next big purchase, whether it's your house, your car, a bonus, whatever it is. And you just know this is not where you want to be. 1 know there's hope, there is a way out. But as Kyle said, it takes time. It took you time to get into the mess. It took you time to realize this is where you no longer want to be. It's going to take you a while to get back out of that as well. So have the patience and grace, put a plan in place and then just start taking consistent action. You're not going to get out of that jam, whether it's mental or financial, overnight. And as Kyle and I have been talking about from the Ironman perspective, just know it's going to be one long day. Embrace it, have patience, and enjoy it. So with that being said, Kyle, thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

Yeah. And for those listening in one last ask again, if you are enjoying the bullpen sessions, all I ask you to do is head on over to itunes, subscribe, give it a five star rating. And again, if you know anybody that is not listening that you would think to think to find these interviews very, very interesting and valuable, please share. I'd be very grateful for you to do that. And last and certainly not least, you know, when certain confidence and clarity collide, I'm struggling today. Action happens. So go make it happen today. Have a great week.