How To Build An Elite Producer Mindset | with Jon Slusser

Hey, welcome back to the Accelerate Your Insurance Sales podcast. Andy Neary here, CEO and founder of Complete Game Consulting. I am excited today. We have got the one and only John Slusser joining us. John is the commercial, uh, commercial risk management growth officer and principal— a principal, I should say, not the only— a principal at Gibson. John oversees strategy and sales. He is responsible for driving innovation, optimizing sales processes, managing relationships with insurance carriers, and fostering leading leadership development among other senior team members. And John's just a good dude. So John, welcome aboard, man.

Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's always a great time to spend with you. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Now we're gonna have some fun with this, man. I think, uh, where I want to go with today's episode is, you know, your risk— you know, Chief Growth Officer with risk management, everything you guys are doing. And obviously Gibson continues to expand, uh, into other markets throughout the country. I think we're going to have a really good conversation on sales. Uh, I would love to talk about your elevation from producer to sales leader, and, uh, we're gonna also give this audience a chance to get to know you a little bit, 'cause I think there's some things about you that, that are really cool. So, um, anyways, let's start with the question I love to ask everybody. John, most of us did not get in insurance by design. How the heck did you find your way into this industry?

Yeah, buckle up. This is going to be a bumpy ride to start out the insurance career. And it does require some context that takes us back several years. So, I went to IPFW in Fort Wayne. It's Indiana University Purdue University of Fort Wayne. Very few people have heard about it. It's a low mid-major Division I. Played soccer there. But the most important part about IPFW is I met my now wife first week, first semester. Freshman year. And the reason why I start here to add context is because I then proceed to switch my major to human resources, which is hers, and we proceed to spend— do every class together for the next 4 years. So here I am, I'm about to graduate, I have an HR degree that I know I'm not going to use, and I take a job in logistics, logistics sales, right out of college. And Indianapolis. That's what moved us in this direction. Do logistics sales for a year, absolutely hate it. Do logistics account management at another company for a year, absolutely hate it. So I find myself 2 years removed from college with a degree I'm never going to use and a wife asking a ton of questions about what the heck are we doing. Well, during those 2 years, the reason why I always involve her in the story is because She's actually the one that gave me my first job in insurance. My wife hired me at State Farm to start my entire career and worked there for a year and then moved over into the commercial space ever since. So, any success I'll ever find in the insurance space is all tied to her. And any success I'll ever find in the personal side of my life is all tied to her too.

So, was she in HR at State Farm?

She was doing HR at State Farm. And realized that we need to put some food on the table. So, the way to do it is through nepotism. So, she hires me and that starts everything.

That's a polite way to say, "Hey, buddy, we got to start making some money here. I got a gig for you." Absolutely.

And I think she knew what she was doing too. She put me in a great situation and we were able to scale right away. And it was a great time and also allowed us early in our marriage to spend some quality time together in the same environment. She had an insurance license too. She knew that side of the business. So, a lot of the dinner table talks were around State Farm and insurance at that point in time.

So, I'm going to totally go off on a detour right now and I apologize because I am a sports junkie. So, today, is it IUP Fort Wayne?

PFW.

So, PFW, Purdue Fort Wayne is part of the Horizon League now, which is where my alma mater, UW-Milwaukee, part of as well. And quick shout out to my alma mater, the baseball program there, they made a nice little run to the regional finals in the NCAA tournament last week, which was awesome. But I do have to ask, because I have a little— I have a little quirk about me where I know all the nicknames of all the colleges. How the heck did PFW become the Mastodons?

So first off, I will always call IPFW because I am the I in IPFW before we did away with Indiana University. So I still call it the old school IPFW. And the Mastodons, Godons, it was actually a long, long, long time ago, there's some archaeologists that were digging around and they actually found the fossils of a mastodon. And that's how literally we got our name. So when you walk into our student union, what you'll find is a replica of fossils made up to appear that of a mastodon.

So And they found these remains in and around Fort Wayne?

Yes, in and around Fort Wayne. And I got the name ever since. So now our tagline, as cringy as this is, is feel the stampede, feel the rumble, go Dons. So picture a bunch of elephants with tusks running in the same direction. So that's, that's who we are. Go Dons. I'll be a Don for the rest of my life. I'm a Don. I'm the only Don basketball fan there ever is. I still go to all the games. I'm a Don.

I love hearing that, man. That, that is awesome. And, uh, I was just cur— outta curiosity, um, soccer, you played college soccer. When you look at like what you do today, you know, obviously we're talk— we're gonna talk about selling insurance and all that stuff, but as a former college athlete, you know, I love asking this question. Would, when you look back on that career, are there still some things and lessons you learned on the soccer field that you apply today in your business?

Oh my gosh, it's my spine. It's like the backbone of my life were those years and then the years previous to that. I mean, I'll share a brief story and that is, and it's actually why I'm the leader I am to this very day. I was incredibly selfish on the soccer field. Very, very selfish. I was a forward. So, we were goal scorers. So, that means we do none of the work. We take all the glory. That's what a forward does on the soccer field. So that was my position my entire life. And it was senior year of high school, any recruiter for any team, you name it, they were there to watch me and some other players in this given night. And I remember one of the coaches of a top 10 ranked program at the time, after I have the game of my freaking life, I know I'm headed this direction, instead tells me that I'm the worst teammate he has ever seen. And as a result, I will not be going to that university. And I, very immature, very selfish, very egotistical John back then, actually took that on the chin in the most humble fashion you could possibly imagine. And as such, over the next, it'd be 15 years, 16 years of life, The only thing I've cared about is being the best teammate possible and to show up for my people in a way in which they can never imagine and care about their success more than I could ever care about mine. And if that's the greatest takeaway that I'll ever get from soccer, so be it. That's the greatest takeaway I think I could have ever had in life, truly. How to be a better spouse, how to be a better father, how to be a better teammate, all because of that one inflection point, 2009, on the soccer field. Uh, you know, man, the main thing I would say—

yeah, I, I actually haven't thought about this in years until you just said that. I still— I was not a coachable kid either. I, I was a, I was a, I was a brat up until a certain age when I got into high school. And I'll never forget, my dad was the high school baseball coach where I grew up. And I think maybe my freshman year, freshman, sophomore year, he sat me down and I'll still remember sitting in the living room of our house and he was like, listen, man, you have a chance to play college baseball, but with your current attitude, you're not, you're never going to do that. And I still remember that, that little, that one little conversation changed a lot.

Andy, it sounds like we lived the same life. My dad was also our high school soccer coach. So I had soccer at home and also on the field, and he wanted to prove a point to me based off of this interaction. So that year I proceeded to set the record for the state of Indiana for the most goals scored in a game, in a season, and in a career. And my dad, as a senior in high school, decides to teach me a lesson by giving Offensive Player of the Year to a different teammate. And, uh, It's a lesson I'll never forget. I'll tell you that much. I—

wow.

Very angry and frustrated in the moment, but in hindsight, I fully understand why that, that happened. But I did have one of those dads as well, and I remember that yesterday.

Those are the moments, man. They, they still impact us 30-plus years later, right? I mean, that's— yeah. And this is— it's actually a good lesson that I, I want to dive into because, you know, we're going to talk about sales, sales leadership, How to attract good producers today. You know, let's just dive right into it. You know, when you think about all the producers you've worked with, the producer you were and are, how important is it that an insurance producer be coachable?

Very. I mean, you got to think about like some of those key characteristics that make somebody coachable. They are naturally curious. They are naturally humble. They're naturally driven. They want to become the best version of themselves. These are characteristics that we can't necessarily create. They're innate. And I think when we are able to identify those characteristics in another human being, that's what leads to them being coachable. And to me, I've worked with a ton of producers of varying age, varying tenure, But I feel like the individuals that have the desire to scale, like in life, not just in production, are the individuals that really find the success at the end of the tunnel. I have so many relationship-driven conversations with the people that I'm around that are producers where they talk about life in the same sentence that they talk about work. And we at Gibson, we like to call that work-life blend. They're one in the same. Truly, they are. So, I only mention it in those, and through that lens to say those characteristics are like across the board. You find those even in like your relationships outside of these four walls and the way you, you live too. And identifying those is actually like really like hard in, in the grand scheme of things. These are things that come out in very real, very personable conversations. And when you can start to figure this out and And then as such, they become coachable where they have this desire to grow, all rooted in trust as well.

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Yeah.

And so I'd be curious, you know, you, you've made the transition over the course of your career from producer. I think, you know, in Indianapolis, you're at MJ, you're at Gibson now. Where you're a sales leader. When you look back on your sales career, which you— I think, do you still sell today, John?

Yes, I do.

Okay, so you're still selling today. What do you think has led to your success from a mindset perspective, from a coachability perspective, from being a student of the game?

Yeah, well, let me give a shout out on my path here. Uh, when I got to MJ, I was not a polished human being. Let alone a producer. You know, to backtrack a little bit, I came from 3 failed jobs and a college degree that I'm not going to use, right? So I get this, this job given to me from my wife. It's not like I earned it. It was, we needed food on the table. She had the power to give me a job. So she did. It's not like I deserved it in any kind of way. I, then a year later, then go to MJ. A year after State Farm. So I go to MJ and I walk in and I am a turd. Like, I'm not afraid to admit that. I'm an absolute turd. There was conflicting conversation if I should even be there or not. And fortunately, a gal named Donna Bender, who I'll love forever, decided to give me an opportunity. So anyways, that's the context for me walking into MJ. I get to MJ and we had a sales coach and his name's Dan Lappin with Lappin 180.. And the very first lesson I walked into, and this is technically day 3 of me on the job, is he was talking about the different mindsets, the survivor mindset, the professional mindset, and the elite mindset. And he started to unpack those things. And it was in that very moment that I decided I'm going to, to, to operate underneath an elite mindset. And like, what does that look like? And that was talking about being committed, being consistent, making this truly like my life, what I consume, what I read, what I'm— what are the positions I'm putting myself in, the relationships I have, the trust I'm trying to develop. Everything was rooted in trying to carry an elite mindset. And I think it was from that moment on, then over the next 10 years, the thought process was I was going to sell in that manner. And the way that he broke this down and the way I still carry it to this very day was that a producer of an elite mindset is really focused on 3 things. And that is to be detached instead of attached to a deal. I, you know, I don't need that deal. I know I want it, that'd be great if it makes sense, if there's a mutual benefit here, but I don't need it. My life goes on beyond this. Uh, to be detached from the deal. The second thing was to be high intent instead of low intent, and that was it's all about them, not about me. You know, how can I help them? How can I support them? I think insurance works in futures. So, how do I protect their future? I have a kiddo. How does he get to live inside of this business one day? And then, the other thing was to be abundant instead of scarce. And that's kind of the heart that we bring to the table. And to me, and Andy, we've had these discussions before, but man, the defining characteristic of my life is pure joy. I'm going to be like the happiest guy in the room at all times. And I think that just stems from this characteristic of abundance. So, I leaned into those 3 things very, very early. And I think when you sat across from me at the table and we're talking about insurance, you saw those 3 things. It's all about you, not about me, and about how you can be better, the best version of yourself. And if I'm the guy that gets to support you in that, sweet. And if not, like, that's okay too. As I always say, I'm not the only good guy in insurance. That's just the truth.

Yeah, but I want every— I'm going to repeat what you just said for everybody. You know, one, be detached from the deal. Go at it with an attitude that I don't need the deal. Two, it is all about your prospect. This has nothing to do with you. And what the third was again?

Uh, abundance over scarcity.

Abundance mindset over scarcity. What we don't under— what we don't appreciate enough in sales, John, is the energy you're giving off to a prospect. And all three of those things you just identified give off an energy that conveys a level of confidence and conviction to a prospect that makes them want to, to do business with you. And I see so many producers operating quite— and I'm going to say something that's going to rub some, some feathers here. A lot of this is from the veterans in this industry, which is, I need the deal, I'm the hero, and there's not enough to go around. That is an energy too many producers are operating in right now, which is why they're not winning deals. What you just said is the unlock to growing your book of business today. That energy you're giving off that says, I don't need the deal, but I'm here to help you. I'm going to make it all about you. So I'm going to shut up and listen. And at the end of the day, there is enough to go around. I am always thinking half glass full. That is how elite producers think. I can't make it any more succinct than that. So, thank you for sharing that.

I'm in alignment there because I think what I learned early on, this was probably 2016, 2017, was I started to operate off of this mantra, "If you can't be my friend, then you can't be in my book of business." Like, I wanted that kind of relationship with you. So, with the 3 things I just said about abundance, high intent, detachment. I said that in the lens of a prospect across from me, but what if that was a friend? What if that was my spouse? What if that was someone that I was in a relationship with from a networking perspective? You, you fill in, like, that's what you would want. Those are the characteristics and the mindset you want for those individuals too. Well, your client and your prospect are no different. They're— it's a relationship, one and the same. Like, that's my hope. And maybe I'm in the, uh, a smaller category in that regard in terms of how I look at my book, but truly You can't be my friend, you can't be in my book. It's, it's that simple for me.

I love how you said that. It's, it's why not build a book of people you want to do life with, right? And, and when I think about what we teach, we talk about the psychographics, right? The riches are in the niches, are in the psychographics. And that's the whole point, is when you find prospects that you're psychographically aligned with, these are people that not only do you like to have as a client, like you'd go grab a beer, you can do life with these people.

Yeah, we do a lot of entertainment in this, in this industry. I cannot imagine myself sitting through a football game with someone that I cannot get along with, but they're giving me revenue. That just doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah, I agree. So let me ask you this, with all that being said, because you and I are exactly aligned on that statement right there, is if you have a new producer right now, let's say they're new to the industry, they're just 90 days in. Everything, with everything we're talking about right now, what advice would you give that producer if you had a chance to sit him down, him or her, and say, all right, this is what it's going to take to win in this industry? What advice would you give them?

I would start in this direction, and we do this. This is, this is very factual in the way we, we talk to our producers to this day. And that is, number one, look at the book Atomic Habits. With James Clear, uh, by James Clear. Now I know that that book is, is shared, that title shared all over the place, but I want to pull a very, very important quote out of that book and focus on, and that is to bring your future forward. So a new producer that's 90 days in, they're looking down the hall and they're seeing all these veteran producers that these large books, they've been there, they've done that, and they're not picking up the phone and calling, they're not sending out the 100 emails a day, they're not doing those things, yet they're still winning. And they feel like that, that there's a path that they need to follow in order to be that producer one day. And I'm like, no, screw that. You can be that producer right now. You can develop those relationships right now. You can put yourself in those rooms right now. Like, that runway, the time it takes, is up to you. Like, how fast that goes or how slow that is, like, that's on you. Uh, it doesn't— there's not like, uh, uh, you get 10 years in and then all of a sudden you don't have to cold call anymore. That's not how it works. If networking and events and developing relationships and putting yourself in the room with a bunch of decision makers is like the best thing a producer can do, then like let's focus on how to do that right now. And so like that's really where the conversation starts. And then we start to get into the tactic, tactical, like action items that it takes to get there. And that's like, what's your LinkedIn look like? Uh, what associations are you aligned with? What niche are you going to align yourself with? Uh, what do your ABC networking partners look like and the cadence that's tied to it? And are you giving enough? Like, we start to get into really the strategic, like, action items tied to what that actually means, and we get them off and rolling. But the other thing is, we— and we're kind of unique in this regard— we operate in sales teams as well. So we're, we're shoulder to shoulder and hip to hip every single day of a producer's career. So, it's not like we have that conversation, I'll see you in the next 90 days. We're having that conversation every single day, sometimes multiple times throughout the day.

You know, I heard— you and I both know Larry Linney.

Yep.

And I was at a client event a couple of months ago Larry spoke at, and he made a comment that I thought was so true, which is the insurance industry rewards mediocrity. And what he was getting at is, you know, when you hire a producer, we often start by doing what? Giving them a 2 to 3 year salary guarantee, right? So day one, they're fed. Day one, their needs are met. And I think it's really hard for— it's easy for a producer to get complacent right out of the gate because of things like salary guarantees. What you're getting at is if you want to be successful, you've got to operate with a sense of urgency and quit buying into the crap that it's going to take 3 to 4 years to be successful. Let's get going now. Yeah. And I think that is a trait, John, that separates, you know, when I look at even the people we coach today who are struggling, it's because they do not go after things with a sense of urgency. Yeah.

There's a persona, there's so many different personality tests, sales tests you can take to define characteristics. But there's one in particular called the 16PF. It's one that MJ used, Lockton has used. And the thought process there, the defining characteristic that determines if a producer will be successful or not is their urgency score. And there's thousands of pieces of data that points to that. An urgency score that's less than a 4 out of 10, you're not going to make it. But an urgency score that is an 8, 9, 10 out of 10, you're also not going to make it. Uh, you'll miss too many details along the way. You know, this like 4 to 8, uh, urgency score is where a ton of successful producers live. And I, I, I've always leaned into that thought process uh, even as a producer, but then also as a sales team leader, and then now a growth leader. And that thought process is like, how do we create urgency? How do we define that? How do we institute that? Uh, and, and to that point, it's, uh, not a one-size-fits-all. I'm not looking for 100 cold calls a week. Like, no. Like, I'm going to sit with you individually, and how are you going to produce? And we're going to define those mechanisms together, and that's not going to look the same as the peer sitting next to you. It's going to be very, very specific to you. And, and then we start to stoke that urgency fire over time. You start to taste that success. You start to move in the, in the path that is most meaningful to you. And that looks like you might need to make 100 cold calls a week, but you might need to find yourself at 7 coffees a week. You might need to be in this association event 4 times a week, and you might need to be tied to this niche and developing content 3 times a week. Like, it's not a one-size-fits-all. And I think that's where we get lost in the urgency is we just go, we point in a direction, we say go, and we leave like the strategic action items on the bench. And I think we need to put that in reverse and stoke urgency through those strategic action items.

Now, I want you to go even deeper into that because I couldn't agree more. I think one of the challenges I see today is we're still training too many producers like it's a one-size-fits-all. And producers come in all different shapes, sizes, colors, you name it, right? It's like you can't just build one system and think it's good for everybody. So with that being said, you know, in your opinion, what does a, let's call it, best-in-class producer development system actually look like? So if you're going to bring in a roster of new producers, let's call it every year, What does that assist a training system look like to put them in the best position to win?

Yeah, let me start with this. Don't have all the answers here. Work in progress. But I think we've tasted some success in this regard. So this is very much what we do. And I am still coachable to this day, so I would love to hear other opinions. But that being said, I think the first thing is define the niche that you're focused in. Like, let's narrow the line of sight into Here's like the category, the vertical, the niche, the industry that I'm most aligned with. And the reason why we like to start there is one, we already have 90+ years of experience in those categories. So we, we have the benchmarks, we have the data, we have the, the tools already prepared for you. So like we don't let you just go rogue and say, you know what, I'm gonna start calling on daycares or trucking if those are things that we don't already do. We already have those verticals defined and you're assigned, you're assigned there. That's number one. The second thing is, 'cause you narrowed your line of sight, now you know the associations you need to get involved in. You know who the buyers are. They all tend to fit a similar buying persona, so we can start to work through that. You start to kind of layer these things out and you're moving in a direction with complete clarity. Not saying that you have all the answers, but you at least know the direction you're going. And then we have a lot of veterans, a lot of gray-haired folks around here that really have a heart to support you. And because we are naturally aligned in sales teams, you have a natural sidecar that's going to go with you and make sure that your success is paramount in their lives. Like, they want you to be successful. And I think that's that secret sauce that we don't compete against each other. You know, we work alongside each other. And when you layer those 3 things in— a clear direction, a clear buyer, some gray-haired folks that want you to be successful, are going to go down that path with you— then that puts you in a, in a frame of urgency to then move. Meanwhile, then we'll start to support the subject matter expertise, the insurance side of things, start to unpack the components that you need to know in order to be able to consult. So it's kind of a work in progress, but at the same time, like, what's a new producer really need? Well, clarity, direction, and a desire to contribute.

Yeah, I love that you said that, man. There's actually a couple of things I want to unpack there. You know, you're speaking our language hands down. When I look at producers, if they've got a niche and I honestly, I think niche can be above and beyond an industry. It could be a strategy and it could be or it could be a skill set. If you've got a niche, you've got that clarity, if you've got the right buyer for it and you're clear on that, what that does for a producer is it gives them that confidence and conviction in their sales message. And it goes back to what we said, that prospects feel that energy. And but you said something now, a couple of things. You know what I've started to really learn and understand recently, John, with those, especially with the niches, when I look at some of the producers we've worked with who have who are dominating a niche, whether that be real estate, trucking, private equity, you name it. What I've started to realize is these producers actually have a passion for that niche above and beyond selling insurance. I said to a producer yesterday I worked with, I said, it's like you love real estate so much, you sell insurance because it gives you an excuse to talk about real estate every day. Yeah, but that's what makes them successful. But one more thing I wanted to add to that. You said it at the end. You've got a team of gray-haired veterans to support you. That's what separates Gibson, quite frankly, from the big publicly owned firms in this industry, because I hear it time and time again with the big, big firms. When you have a niche, your, your competitor might not be the other broker down the street. It might be somebody inside your own walls because you're all competing for the same business because you're in the same practice and there's not that support layer. It's no, no, that's mine. That's mine. Get away. I'm like, how do you— how are you able to thrive in that culture? Having that support of now that you have the clarity, you have the niche, you've got an entire team to help you win. I think that sounds obvious, but it's overlooked.

Yeah, I get that. You know, funny enough, this is, this is something that I share with anybody in my sphere of influence as it pertains to producer development. And it's, it's both to the validating producer that we're training, and it's also to those gray-haired folks that are going to be providing support. And that's these 4 C's. Everybody needs clarity, number 1. The clarity of the validating producer, what their responsibility is, but also the veteran producer. The second thing is everybody needs a means of connection. So as you mentioned, a gray-haired individual that's not passionate about real estate is not going to be passionate in the room with that producer that they're supporting. So it's connection to the project, to the vertical. So we have to create that. The third thing is contribution. Everybody wants to feel like they're contributing. So no validating producer wants to set a meeting and 99% of the meeting is then ran by the veteran producer. We've all been in those rooms. They love to take over. They see it going south. It's not really going south. They just don't want the opportunity to slip away. So they take over immediately. And this producer contributed nothing. They don't walk away feeling like they even participated hardly. So then that leads to number 4, and that's commitment. Mm-hmm. And that looks different. The validating producer is committed to what they're contributing, what they're connected to, the clarity they have, which is their role in the room, and also what happens next. Same with the veteran. If they're committed to the success of this validating producer and to the process that we've outlined, then that's how we get to a means of winning. We lean into those 4 C's, and then I'll add a 5th because it's behind you right now, that consistency. Uh, we do that over and over and over again. It starts to, to really work itself out, and it becomes routine. Uh, it becomes desirable. We don't, we don't JV deals. That's not how this works. We lean into that side of things where we're winning together, and I think that's super powerful inside our four walls.

That's awesome. So it's clarity, Connection, contribution, and commitment.

Yep. I love that.

With, with consistency being the, the bow that ties the whole thing together.

There we go.

Well said. I hope everybody took a note on that. Uh, I, you know, John, here's what I— one other topic I do want to talk to you about today. Um, you know, you've elevated over your career from a producer to a sales leader. Um, what lessons have you learned And especially since you are still producing today but leading others, um, what lessons have you learned as you've elevated to the role of leading others in, in a sales position?

Yeah, let me, let me start out with, uh, framing some context with a quick story because this is incredibly relevant. So it's, it's 20— 2019, 2020s, uh, sorry, yeah, 2019. It's, uh I find myself in a suite at a Tampa Bay Buccaneers football game. And to my left is a family celebrating, you know, the Buccaneers. To my right is a family celebrating the Buccaneers. Like, I'm in this room full of insurance professionals that I love and I'm connected with. And Tom Brady throws a touchdown pass and everybody's freaking out. It's going great. And I find myself literally just staring like blankly through a window that's in front of me in this suite, feeling the most unfulfilled I have ever felt in my life. And the reason why was, and I'll never forget this moment, it's because at that, at that point in time, I realized that I care more about my team winning than I, than myself winning. I care more about like the book expansion of those individuals than I did myself. But I was not in a position to not produce anymore within my book of business to then support them full-time. So as such, I actually left that Buccaneers game unfulfilled, heavy heart, and went directly into my boss's office. And I let him know what it is that I want to do. I want to be a people leader at the highest level. I want to create impact.

Yeah.

I want their books of business to grow beyond mine. And the only way I'm going to be able to do that is if I don't have the same production responsibilities that I have today. And kudos to that guy because I had no right. I had not earned the opportunity to say that in any manner. Uh, and he actually leaned into that and made sure that I was well positioned, well trained, well supported to be that individual to these other guys. And as such, we started to hire these individuals into the small commercial practice I was leading at the time. And it almost became an incubation center for new producers. And I'm so stoked to say that here we are 5, 6 years later, I look back at those individuals and they're now principals at their firm and they now have large books of business and they're now contributing to the people underneath them. And what I learned about myself in that regard is, A, I love people. That's an innate characteristic. I love human beings. And I finally put myself in a position where I could exploit that.. But the second thing I knew was that I can, I can lead with a level of energy, a level, level of vigor, a level of that elite mindset that we already talked about that will actually propel, will be the engine for those around me. And although I wasn't polished and although I didn't have all the answers, I could bring that to the table. And what I learned very quickly is that whether you're a validating producer, a validated producer, or a principal, you will attach yourself to an undeniable energy, an undeniable vigor, an undeniable, you know, focus on success that's yours and not mine. And you'll want to run that race with me. So there's that. Now, here's why I believe that every leader should have an underlying responsibility for continued production. And that is because I got to live in that world too. I don't want to be the guy on the mountaintop telling you, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. Here's how you do it. And I'm 5 years removed from the process. So, I'm still in the game to this day. I'll still do meetings to this day. I'll still develop a book of business to this day. I get to live that world alongside of you and we get to talk about that in the most collaborative manner you can possibly think of. And that peer-to-peer drive, oh my gosh, the most powerful thing I've ever experienced.

It's almost like your leadership, your rise to leadership, it was a full circle moment going all the way back to your soccer days.

Oh my God. Something I think about often.

When somebody said you need to be a better teammate, right?

I find it very basic for me.

Well, man, it's— I can tell you from the outside, you're doing great things at Gibson as a growth leader. So keep it up.

Appreciate that.

All right. We're going to bring this thing on home. I got one more thing I want to ask you, and then we're going to get to know John a little bit. Are you okay with that?

I'll do it.

You know, one thing we really preach at Complete Game Consulting is becoming a one-of-one. How do you build a sales message that is uniquely yours? And on the personal side, you actually truly have a one of one, um, your son Leo. If I have this right, you made a post about a year ago, um, that I had pulled up. Leo is the only known human being in history to be born without an inferior rectus muscle, which is the lower eye muscle that pulls your eye downward. Your son is truly a one of one.

Yeah.

How has that experience as a parent been for you? Whether it be balancing work and life, a child who does have a unique need, things like that. How has that experience, what has that experience taught you?

Man, to start, there's nothing I will say that truly captures it. It's not even like words don't do it justice. I post these things because I really feel like there are some embedded lessons that I truly cannot verbalize that hopefully someone takes away. As such, you know, we could not get pregnant forever. We have been married now for 12 years. We tried to start a family immediately. Could not get pregnant forever. Then, all of a sudden, here is Leo. And that was like the most joyful gift that I could have ever been given. And shortly into the pregnancy, we find out that there is going to be something terribly wrong. When he enters the earth. He ends up being born 2 months early, do 103 days in the NICU. He has had 10 different surgeries in his life. So it is not just the vision. There were different components that really needed some— well, one, understanding, because we did not even know what we were getting into. But the other thing is that it really needed a lot of specialization. So to me, it taught me First thing was patience, to control the controllables. There's so much in that entire story that I'm not God, so there's nothing I can do, plus or minus. I can only control myself, and that is the joy that I was going to bring to his and my wife's life, even at the lowest of lows. That's something I can control. And understanding that like life is still valuable no matter what it looks like or how it operates. And his life is incredibly valuable at that time. And then the other thing was I learned this thought process in the moment, and that is insurance is what I do. Gibson's who I do it for, but it's not who I am at all. Being Leo's dad, Heather's husband, a Christian, like those are the things that I am. Like that is, that is my identity. And when I understood that immediately, that helped me prioritize things the right way. So I have to start there because that is what really sets the tone for then everything to come. And that was, we are met with challenge, we are met with diagnosis. We are now flying to Miami to receive care. Picture a room where you have University of Miami professionals in the room, medical professionals in the room. They fly in folks from Duke. From Army. They fly in, all these professionals, there are 7 of them in the room with me, my wife, and my kiddo. We have no idea what we are even looking at. We had a failed surgery at a hospital here locally. So it was truly a lot of question marks. And what we ended up walking away with was a pure strategy. It was going to be trying some, some new procedures. It was going to involve multiple procedures that were going to be ongoing. So, we kept going back and back and back to the clinic called Baskin Palmer. And we had to put our faith and our trust into people we did not even know. And when I look back at that experience, and thankfully I will get to the end of the story, and that is he does have his vision restored. Everything is moving great. The thought process is he probably will not drive a car, but By the time he turns 16, he's 3 now. By the time he turns 16, he'll hopefully have— we'll have self-driving cars at that point in time. But, uh, no, he's doing great. When I look back at that situation, I see really 3 things to my count that I really, uh, focus on. Number 1, Gibson's an employer that I am blessed to work for. When we— when he was born, I had to start my job at Gibson. So I would, I would be in the NICU from 4 AM 8 AM, go to Gibson from 8 AM to 5 PM, and then go back to the NICU from 5 PM to then midnight, sleep for 4 hours, and start the whole thing over again. And we did that for like 30 days. And the amount of support I received from Gibson during that time is profound, and it's something that I'll never take for granted. And they still do that to this day. We had to get a procedure done a while back and I felt like I was living in the most reactive state of my entire life. I sent an apology message, literally, to our leadership team and a few others. And the messages back were like, "We would be disappointed if you didn't take the time." And that's where this work-life blend that I mentioned previously, like, really matters to me. The second thing was going back to the control the controllables. Those are all emotions, really. There's some action items tied to, like, the circumstance, but in reality, it's the the emotions, like what I bring to the table for really Leo and my spouse at that point. But the third thing was, man, when I started my insurance career, and this is wild to say, when I started my insurance career 10 years ago and I was told this is the amount of money you could potentially make, these are the circumstances you can find yourself in, I never really truly understood what that was until I was like truly financially capable to fly to a different state to receive the best care It's the number one institute in the entire world. And I think back to that drive, that effort, that desire for success 10 years ago is what made the greatest care possible for Leo at this point in time because of what I did 10 years ago, showing up every single day and really putting in my best effort. I talk about this frequently, and that is insurance is my sport. It is truly my sport. I practice it. I consume it. I believe in it. I perform the same way someone in the NBA would. And because of that mentality, that elite mindset 10 years ago, it's made this entire care for Leo possible. So, something I'll never take for granted. And so, a message I would share with everybody, the opportunity that can create.

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I think it's— we forget sometimes those decisions we make today. We forget to ask ourselves, how is this going to impact me 10 years from now?

Yeah, truly.

Yep. We're all living in a real-time, I want it now moment, uh, want it now society. But think about your actions today and, and how, what effect are they gonna have you have from me, uh, it on you 5 to 10 years from now.

Yeah.

So I love that you said that. Well, John, it's been an honor, man. We're gonna get to, we're gonna have a little lightning round here to have some fun, uh, get to know you. Uh, I'm a big man of discipline and habits. Yep. So I love to learn from others and what theirs are. Uh, so you ready to fire away?

Let's go.

All right, man. I'm a big morning routine guy, so, you know, I love to take my time. I look at myself like an athlete. Like you said, my, my craft is my sport and I want to, I, I have to use the mornings to put myself in a position to win the day. What does John Slusser's morning routine look like?

5 pillars, financial pillar, emotional pillar, mental pillar, spiritual pillar, physical pillar. I want to hit these 5 pillars in the morning before I ever walk out of my house. It starts at 4:30 in the morning. So, I wake up at 4:30 in the morning, going back to the soccer days. I've done that every single day. Doesn't matter if it's a weekend, a holiday, every day of my life. That's when the day actually starts. And I'm doing something inside of those 5 pillars. It could be getting a workout in for the physical pillar. It could be if someone pops in my mind, they are going to get a note from me. That's the emotional pillar. They're going to get a text, they're going to get an email, they're going to get a LinkedIn message. They're getting some form of, "I'm thinking about you. I love you. If you need anything, let me know." The mental pillar is that's when I like to do my reading. I'm not that much of a night owl, so it's easy for me not to get to any kind of reading or consumption in the evening time. So, I hit that in the mornings. It could be a devotional, could be a book I'm into. The financial side is I want to make sure that I'm aligning myself with future wealth success. I'm really big into properties, so Airbnbs, that kind of thing. So, that's that component. But then, the most important part is the spiritual component. And I spent some time really in kind of a meditation, quiet space for myself. I want to be in tune with who I am. We just talked about Leo not long ago and that can really weigh pretty heavily and I don't want to take that energy. Into the day. So I really ground myself into a means of gratitude, uh, of joy, connection with God, and really, uh, focused on, you know, what kind of guy do I want to show up as for the rest of the day. So the morning routine starts at 4:30. I'm out the door usually between 7:30 and 8, and I'm hitting those 5 pillars along the way.

I love that, man. I knew there's a reason I liked you. Um, let's talk workout quick. If you got 60 minutes to get a workout in, what's your go-to workout?

Well, I used to be just doing a strength and conditioning split, but recently I'll talk about what I have been doing here very recently is I've been focused on marathon training. So that started in, in January, something I've never ever done before. In fact, I never even ran a 5K before. I knew I probably could, but I was not conditioned or well trained for it. So that 60-minute workout is, is a running split most normally right now. Just completed the half marathon, got the full marathon coming up in November that I've been training for, and I use that window for it.

I love it, man. How about this? If you had an afternoon to yourself— Heather's got Leo, it's just John— what's John doing?

Oh man, uh, well, I'm doing one of two things, and they're going to be pretty polar opposite. One is I love to spend time surrounded with an environment that like really feels like Wow, like, I cannot believe this is like creation right now, uh, to really ground myself in something bigger than me. And, uh, my favorite place to do that is actually the University of Notre Dame. You ever walk around that architecture? You ever go to the Grotto? You ever stand outside of the Golden Dome? Oh my gosh, you're like, this has been here forever and it still looks like the most beautiful place in the world. So there's that. The other side though is I'm a water guy. So if I can be near water, I'm going to be on water. Like, that's the calm, the peace that I need. So I might putz around on the boat and get out on the water and spend some time to myself doing that.

So are you a paddleboarder?

I'm not a paddleboarder. I'm usually just on the pontoon.

Yeah, I'm a big paddleboarder. We have a crystal, pristine, crystal clear lake about 3 minutes from us. That's it right there. Grab the paddleboard, go over there, let's get on the lake. I'm a water guy too. Last question. Any books you've read lately, podcasts you've listened to that you recommend?

Yeah, I mean, if you're a young validating producer and you're trying to develop a brand, The Purple Cow, that's the one that I try to prescribe more often than anything because to me, it's like, and this is just like, A 2-second summary: you're driving down the road, you never notice the grouping of cows that are off to the left or right. They all look the same. But you're driving down that same road, you will notice the purple cow. So, the desire is how do you become that purple cow? So, I would prescribe that one. Another one, though, is take the stairs, man. Do the hard things in life. That's like take the stairs is— I'm on the second floor. The amount of times we take the elevator up here is ridiculous. Like, take the stairs, do the hard things. Put in the effort and the focus.

So are you, uh, are you referring to Take the Stairs by Rory Vaden?

Yeah.

So Rory, I mean, I'm a member of Brand Builders Group. Rory is the CEO of Brand Builders Group. Um, yeah, great guy, great guy, great book. Take the Stairs. Yep, yep. Yeah, that was a— thank you for sharing that. Yeah, Rory, I've had a chance to work with Rory a little bit, uh, on some stuff for our business, and just his, his He's brilliant when it comes to branding and marketing. So, well, John, if somebody was tuning in, man, and got inspired by this conversation, wanted to reach out to you, what is the— what's the best way to do so?

First off, please do find me on LinkedIn. That's where I'm at. That's like my social media of choice. I would— I would love to engage and connect there. That's always a great place to do it.

Awesome, man. John Slusser, everybody. John, you're awesome. This was a great conversation.

Appreciate you, man.

Be good, everybody. Have a good weekend.