How To Develop The Sales Leaders Of Tomorrow

All right, so, guys, thank you for jumping in today. This. This webinar, I know we've got a mix of producers, sales leaders, agency owners. This one was kind of geared for everybody. Today I wanted to bring Kareem and some of you. If you've never met this guy, you're going to absolutely love this guy in the next 60 minutes. I promise you that. As you notice, it's not obvious right now, the man is a Chiefs fan. And when you're seven and, oh, you're going to tout that as much as you can.

But Kareem and I came together. What, Kareem. About two years ago.

A little bit longer than that. A little bit longer.

And. Well, with this idea.

With this idea.

Two years ago, you and I met. I think it was seven or eight years ago. I'll share this, guys. About seven, eight years ago, I was actually selling a captive insurance program, and Kareem was one of the agencies out of Detroit that we had identified as, hey, they think. I think they'd be a good fit for this. So we. As Kareem's rule is, in business, I don't do business unless I come visit you. He came to our office, and we had him in. And I'll just tell you, we actually had to shut the door to the conference room because this man was so gregarious and loud. So you're gonna love this guy.

Two years ago, we came together, we said, hey, we see some common problems right now in the industry, and what can we do to attack them together? And so we had developed. Some of you probably saw our black and white truth about Benefit advising videos that we had created. And that's really what we're going to kind of do today is take a look at some of the things we see right now going on in the industry, whether it's from the producers, how producers can be better, or the agency sales leaders and the agency owners, what can they be doing to be better leaders, build better teams, things like that. And so, Kareem, if you want to take a minute just to introduce yourself and. And then we'll just dive right into it.

I like it, Andy. Well, welcome, everybody. Glad to be here with you all. I greet you in my native tongue. What up, doe? That's what we say back in Detroit. And that's just our way of saying hello. And I see. I actually see someone on from Detroit, and I'm laughing because I'm in this. All this Chiefs gear. I catch a whole lot of flack. But I've been a Chiefs fan since I was 13, so don't hold it against me. But with that, I've been in the industry 25 years, as Andy mentioned, been an agency owner. And we normally joke and start this off as saying it's about perception, right? And we look at it and we'll look at the two of of us and say which one of us was an athlete, a former athlete, and which one of us an agency owner. And perception would lead you to believe that I would be the athlete and Andy was the agency owner. And it's the furthest from the truth, right. I've been in this space building a business and employee benefits as again, well over 25 years, we've had a lot of success in that space, doing business in about eight states now having a satellite office in Tampa, Florida. And so just excited to share with you what has worked for us, things that Andy and I have talked about and really to give it to you from a different perspective. And so I think even from the shock factor of how I look today is going to be different than what you see from a traditional agency owner. But I think that sets the stage and the tone that this will be different than what you've seen or heard before, although the concepts of course will be in the same line of what you're accustomed to. So we're excited to get started with that. Andy, I'm going to push it back over your way and let's jump in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So guys, we're gonna run this not. It's not your typical workshop webinar. I'm not throwing up a big slide deck and walking you through it. This is gonna be. We have noticed our, our most well attended or most successful workshops have been what we call more of the fireside chat kind. So that's what today is. This is going to be a back and forth. We're gonna go walk you guys through. If you are an agency owner sales leader, you're gonna get a ton of insight from Kareem on how to run a high performance team. If you're a producer, you're also going to get a lot of key attributes on how to take your, your business to the next level. And so that's what we're excited. Now I will say this on a side note, guys. On a humorous side note, Kareem was an athlete in high school, but a lot of people would think he's probably football, basketball, maybe track. This man was a swimmer.

I was freestyling, backstroke. I mean that was my deal.

And at the end, guys, we will. Here's what we're going to do with questions. If you had any questions, come in at the end and you can ask. We're going to release some time for Q A at the end. If you have a question that pops while we are going through this, while we're chatting, could either just write it down, wait till the end, or put it in the chat box, hit send, we'll see it and we'll come back to it at the end. So we're excited. We want you guys to create some collaboration here at the end. So like I said earlier, guys, Kareem and I came together two years ago and we saw three glaring problems right now in the insurance industry. Number one, sales training is horribly outdated. And when you look at the way we train producers today, we train them like we did in 1995 and a lot has changed. Not every producer has been is created equal. And you have to train producers. We like to say you have to build a prospecting strategy around the producer's personality. And we're going to talk about that today. Two, the definition of leader is often misguided in our industry. Often the the man or the woman who sells the most becomes the sales leader. Well, that's not always the best decision in the world. So we're going to talk about how to create a great culture inside your agency, inside your team. And then when we talk about a lack of diversity in thought.

What we see often inside agencies is the traditional this is the way we've always been done it. And you bring producers in, you bring a team in and you just, this is how we do it here without allowing them to bring in their ideas, their thoughts. Especially if you're at a position right now, you're hiring some young producers, they're going to come in with new ideas, they're going to come in with new ways to do it. That millennial Gen Z is the one coming in going why are we doing it this way?

Exactly.

And, and you got to be open to those, those changes get things guys, changes. Things are happening, things are changing and we got to adapt to it. So where do you see right now? Let me ask you this, Kareem, why don't we start with your story.

Yes.

You know how you got in the business and that aha moment you had when you realized as a sales producer you got to step up your game. Yeah.

Well, that's a great question. Great starting point, guys. I came out, came in this business. My mother been in the business 30 some odd years. So I am One of those legacy kind of scenarios. And she was involved with voluntary benefits with Colonial Life. And so that was kind of my start. But what she did for me on the front end was that before you come here to Colonial life, I want you to learn the industry. And so she sent me to New York Life where I learned the insurance industry as a whole. I went from New York Life over to Northwestern Mutual. And part of what Andy is talking about is that some of the traits that I had at that time, lazy, not willing to work, zero work ethic. I mean, those things existed. And so I was unsuccessful, period. I mean, that was the deal. I went to work for my mother and she fired me. The best thing that ever happened for me was that she fired me because she understood that I was not going to be successful. So I don't come from this scenario where somebody handed me an agency, they handed me a book of business. She fired me and said, you need to go do something else until you realize that you really want to take advantage of this opportunity. And I wasn't taught schools for two and a half years, so why is that important to my story? I was very good at being able to talk. I was a horrible freaking listener. I did not listen to anything. I just thought that my sales ability to talk, that I could out talk people. But I never understood, understood what the problem was. I actually became a teacher and I taught special education, third and fourth grade. And any of you, all that are married to teachers, have family members that are teachers. That is a real profession that requires a lot of patience, a lot of listening, a lot of understanding, a lot of empathy because you're dealing with a ton of things there. And I learned that at that space during that time, I continued to think about why I wanted to come back into this business. And as Andy alluded to, I really kind of followed other sales organizations around the country to see what they were doing. And at a point, after two and a half years, I came back into the business and I was focused though. But I realized that there were things inside of me. So I have a saying. I have a saying that I've said for years. And my saying simply this is that you're the same you no matter where you take you, unless you change you. And I don't care where you go. So when I look at producers that say they're going to go to another agency, they go to another agency and guess what? They took them same sales with them to another agency and, and they get the same results. And so until I decided to actually work on me and change the habits that I was working with and look at what were my strengths, how could I focus in on them? I wasn't successful. Once we got that underway, Andy, it was game on. We haven't looked back.

Yeah, you're. You. I'm gonna. You're gonna definitely share some insights on how you have built Great Lakes into a powerhouse, not only in Michigan, but now in Florida. You know, I look at it from the other spectrum guys. You know, when we came together, Kareem and I came together, kind of came at it from. Kareem runs an agency, so he's the agency owner. I'm the guy who used to work for the agency owner. And my. My story was, you know, I grown. Came up the ranks in the insurance industry. Selling, by the way, my first 10 years in sales, I was terrible. I was brutal. I blamed everything but me. My market sucked, my boss sucked, my prospects sucked, but I never created the right results. What changed my life was when we decided to move from Wisconsin to Colorado in 2014. And what happened is I found myself in a market nobody knew who I was. And I had two choices. I could do it the way I was taught, the traditional way we sell, or train in this industry, or I could try something different. And it was there I made a decision, a decision to do something different. I said, I'm going to build a brand. I'm going to get a lot of people to know who I am in a short amount of time. And I'd be honest. A lot of my peers, my team, were like, what are you doing? We don't do this in the insurance. This is not the way we do it. I said, you know what? I'm going to do it anyways. Watch. And I built a brand, grew a nice book of business in a market nobody knew me. And I look back, and that's where I realized that, okay, we can't train producers the same way we did 30 years ago.

There is a different way to do business today. And the thing that I realized that made me so successful with that model, guys, is because I built a prospecting strategy around my personality. I'm here to tell you, not everybody's designed to make 500 cold calls a week.

I work with an agency right now that has a producer model that is very unique. They hire a lot of former risk adjusters and underwriters for producers. Think about that.

Wow.

These are introverted people being asked to go sell. Those are the last people in the universe that are going to pick up.

The phone and do a bunch of.

Cold calls about how things work. Nope. Can you mute yourself, please?

So what they have done or what we have helped them do is build a prospecting strategy around their personality. And you know what happens? They start liking how they're doing what they're doing. And when you start liking how you're doing what you're doing, you start doing it more consistently.

Yes.

And when you do it more consistently, guess what? You win. And so that's what we're talking about today. The game has changed. Right now. What Kareem and I are trying to solve is we see too many agencies right now that aren't growing because they're, they're not adapting to the way things are done. This is why we're seeing too many agencies sell right now. Nobody knows how to grow organically. Two, we see too many dang good young producers come in the industry and burn out, and they're gone in two years. Sell payroll.

Absolutely.

And so that's what we really want to change, is we want to give you guys some tips and ideas right now to adapt your own book of business, your team, your culture, everything. And so, Kareem, here's where I want to go, guys. We're going to focus on a couple things this today. Number one, we're going to talk about how to build a more solid marketing and sales process.

So number one, if you're going to grow organically, you've got to have a solid process. We're going to talk about that. Two, we're going to talk about how to build, how to find better sales leaders. Now, we don't necessarily mean you're looking for director of sales. Just you want a team of producers who all have the capability of being leaders.

And number three, we're going to focus on how you help your producers build brands. How?

You mean you actually have to do that? You actually have to help them?

Andy, Hate to tell you, Kareem, it's. It's a crowded market these days and you have to stand out. The days of we just hung a sign on a shingle. We're an insurance agency. Come one, come all that are over. You have to let your producers build brands. The best agencies understand this. They're renting the brands of their producers. The producers are not renting their logo.

Absolutely.

So, Kareem, with that being said, let's kick off with marketing and sales processes, how to build more effective processes. When you look at what you guys are doing at Great Lakes benefits, whether it be in Detroit, I'm going to ask you a question specifically to the new market you've entered. Florida. Right. What do you. What do you think has made your team so successful from a marketing and sales standpoint?

I'll tell you, you hit it. Right from the beginning, it's been branding and authenticity. I can tell you those have been the two things that have allowed us to stand out, was that we had a brand. So I remember coming into the market and of course, our company is Great Lakes Benefit Group. And people said, you can't come into a Florida market stating Great Lakes Benefit Group. And I'm like, well, why can't I? You know, that's the brand that I've built. Why would I not? I think it actually lends towards a greater story of where we've come from and now where we are today. And so that brand, it preceded us even though we know we're coming down and we were saying, hey, we're going to a new market, we continue with that same brand along the way. And so the first thing I say to everyone that's looking to build, if you don't have a brand, you don't have anything. Everybody has a brand. Anybody who's successful in our business, they have a brand. The other side of that was what was the authenticity behind the brand? And so for many years, in the front end of my career, I was always trying to be compare and function like other people. And so with me functioning like other people, I say at that time that I was in a space that I was looking to assimilate. And so in that space of looking to assimilate, I did what I thought everybody did. I had no facial hair. I did all the blue suit, the red shirt, red tie, the white. I did all of the things that I thought was the reason of that was my brand. When I got to a space that I understood who I was and what my brand was, then I focused on the authenticity of my brand, that I did not have to change who I was in order to be able to go out and have a great marketing strategy. Because there were going to be people that I attracted that if I'm looking here on this list that I see Rhett, there. There may be. Rhett wouldn't attract that. You wouldn't attract Andy. And so I had to look at how do I focus on that market that will respond to how I look at things. You know, what was that? So that authenticity changed the game. But now I said, I am going to be Korean Kate. I'm loud. I'm Gregarious you know, I'm the fun and the part everybody doesn't like that. And I'm okay because I'm not for everybody. I tell people I'm like Dr. Pepper. You know what I mean? Dr. Pepper is not for everybody, Andy. You know, I mean, it's an acquired taste, right? And so I'm an acquired taste, and I'm okay with that. But part of the way that I work around that is in who I hire, bring around me to round out, to make sure that we've got all the other colas that people want to drink as well. Right. So it doesn't become strictly about the brand and my personal brand. So there's my personal brand and there's my agency brand. And I think from a marketing standpoint. Now, do they coincide? Absolutely. Right? Absolutely. However, I want to make sure that my producers still have the ability to fall within my brand. And I may have that adjuster that is not going to be loud. I may have that underwriter that does not have that same skillset that I have that. And that's something that I had to learn as a leader, that in the beginning stages, all I tried to look for were people that were like me. And I kind of have to say in the office now, if we all think alike, shit, all of us are not necessary here. I mean, if we don't have any other thought processes there, then we get the same results from the same type of people on a regular basis. So I was trying to hire me and that was a problem. Right. So when I start thinking about marketing, I'm looking at marketing strictly from the beginning, talking about that brand. The second thing that I would say with you, and I learned this a lot in being around you, Andy, was what content was. I also involved with whether that was content, looking at it from the standpoint of LinkedIn or social media platforms. You know what? We're looking at it from the standpoint of LinkedIn or social media platforms. You know, what was the content that I was sending out in my emails? What was the content that I was distributing? If I was public speaking, what was the content and what was it that I wanted to drive home as the differentiator between Great Lakes Benefit Group and the other places? Because I kind of get off and, you know, going up against the big houses, right? That's. That's kind of my thing. I want to. I want to tackle Goliath at all times. And so I. That. That's one of my traits, right? I want to tackle Goliath at all times. And so in looking at that, I had to make sure that the content matched up with what was going on there. And then the technology, my younger folks brought me to a tech. I am a dinosaur in that space of technology. But I understood in marketing that if I was not taking advantage of the technology that existed today. I think you shared this with me and I had some other shared this with me. Andy, I was going out and talking to one person, and you were talking to 20,000 people at the same time. And so I'm like, damn, this is bad fishing routine, right? I mean, I've got a net, I've got a pole, and you've got a net. And there's a difference in how we're fishing it. So no matter how long it takes, I can go out and try to introduce and shake hands with four or five people in a given event. And you've shook hands with 20,000 people and yet you haven't seen them. So I think those things from a marketing strategy, those have been the things that have strengthened us at Great Lakes to give us there, because now we know everybody looks us up before we come into a meeting. So if there's content available, they've already reviewed the content. If there's an opportunity to say that they've gone on LinkedIn, they've already done LinkedIn, they've done that research on you before you get there. So I didn't have to spend time coming in to try to sell who I was. They already knew who I was there. Let's just get down to the business of what problem do you have and can we solve.

I love how you said that, because when I look at everybody on this call, the one thing you all have in common right now that you lack is time. And when I go back to my situation, 2014 Colorado, I was producing, running a big book of benefit business and running a team. And so the one thing I lacked when it came to prospecting, Kareem, was time. So I had to make the decision, when I have time to prospect, what am I going to do? Am I going to attack one person at a time, or am I going to try to talk to a lot of people at once? And that's when I leaned into the. The theory of exponential awareness. I'm going to put a megaphone to my message and get it out to as many people as I possibly can, as fast as I can, and that's how I'm going to build a brand. And I think what you just said is so important. I want everybody to Hear it. It came down to three things for you. Branding, content, technology. Yeah, think about that, guys. Branding, content, technology, brand. And how I hear him saying that is. Number one, what's your brand, which we're going to talk about in a little bit. Number two, what's the content you're going to put out so people can meet you before they ever meet you? And then three, what technology are you going to use to get it out far, fast and wide? This is where the game of sales has changed.

You have to find a way to bring exponential awareness to your prospecting strategy. How are you going to get one message in front of a lot of people at one time? And. And how are you going to do it consistently? What I love about things like content, they take LinkedIn content, for example. It's marketing while you sleep. If you're still just cold calling and cold emailing, the only time you're marketing is when you're picking up the phone or sending the email. When you're using things like LinkedIn content, that stuff's staying out there 24 7. It's marketing while you're sleeping. And it gives you an opportunity to walk into a meeting with a prospect who already feels like they know you and you have never shaken their hand.

And you. And I'll tell you what, Andy, you. You taught me that, right? I mean, because I was. I'm like, I don't do it.

So.

So you got to remember, I'm on one platform now. My team members are on all kind of platforms. I'm kind of a square again. My daughter says I'm your dinosaur daddy. I have. I've never had a Snapchat. I've never had a. Whatever. Instagram or Instacart or whatever. Yeah. I mean, I'm the guy that still orders Amazon through my daughter, right? Because I'm just a dinosaur. I'm just. I'm refus. Refusing to change, however, that's me. But I understand the value of it for the business. So I do not allow my personal dislike of that environment to keep you from being able to use the platform. Right? And so I think that that has been the important piece. By having others around me that have embraced it, that has allowed me then to embrace it even more. And as you said it, once I start seeing it work and somebody's like, oh, yeah, I feel like I've been knowing that guy forever. I'm like, oh, shit. And he's on to something with this thing. You know what I mean? Somebody says they're saying this before I get. And it just cut out the first 20 minutes of pleasantries in a sales call that. That rapport has already been built. And that was the thing for me is that I'm like, oh, wow, this just cut out so I could get to the meeting things. I don't have to spend 20 minutes trying to sell them on who I am. They already know. They did the research, they saw it, and I can just get right into. And they've invited me here. So there's a reason they've invited me here now.

100%. I'm going to get tactical for a second for you guys. So here's what I want you to think about. When I got in the business in 2002, I was selling life insurance, financial planning, retirement. I was terrible at it. And I remember I was given two pieces of advice. Dye your hair gray so you look older and go get a country club. Go get a membership at a country club you can't afford because that's where the CEOs hang out. Go eat lunch at the most expensive place in town because that's where the CEOs have lunch in 2024. Guys, you know where everybody's hanging out.

My. My question is, what's your strategy to be in here right now? What's your marketing strategy or sales strategy to be inside these phones? Because this is where everybody's attention is. If you're not grabbing people's attention on their phone, you're not grabbing their attention at all. So here's what I want you to think about. How do you create a effective marketing and sales process? It's four questions. It's who, what, where, and how. Write these down. Number one, effective marketing strategy starts with who are you talking to?

Do you know who your ideal prospect is? Remember the days of talking to everybody? Because I. So here's what I want you to think about. How do you create a effective marketing and sales process? It's four questions. It's who, what, where, and how. Write these down. Number one, effective marketing strategy starts with who are you talking to?

Do you know who? Your I sell insurance are over. You can't do that.

Who are you talking to? What do they look like demographically? What do they look like psychographically? Who's your ideal buyer? Second question, what are you saying to them? Or ideal prospect is. Remember the days of talking to everybody? Because I. I'll tell you the thing that's not going to get them their attention is telling them you were founded in 19. I sell insurance or over. You can't do that?

Who are you talking to? What do they look like demographically? What do they look like psychographically? Who's your ideal buyer? Second question. What are you saying to them? 78 and you have preferred relationships with all the care? Nobody cares anymore about your story. They want to know what's in it for them. You've got to tell their story.

The third question is where are you saying it? So who are you talk? I'll tell you the thing that's not going to get them their attention is telling them you were founded in 19. Talking to what are you saying and where are you saying it? And this 78 and you have preferred relationships with all the care. Nobody cares anymore about your story. They want to know what's in it for them. You've got to tell the their story.

The third question is where are you saying it? So who are you talking is where? I want you to think about putting a megaphone to the message and creating exponential awareness. Where are you going to put the message that can get in front of a lot of people at one time? This is why I love channels like social media, public speaking, talking to what are you saying and where are you saying it? And this podcast, webinars, these are all opportunities to get one message in front of us is where I want you to think about putting a megaphone to the message and creating exponential awareness. Where are you going to put the message that can get in front of a lot of people at one time? This is why I love channels like social media, public speaking, a lot of people at one time. And then the last question is how are you going to move them from discovery call to decision? That's the sales process.

Too many agencies right now don't have a process. So gyms do, podcasts, webinars, these are all opportunities to get one message in front of doing it one way, Bill's doing it another way, Sally's doing it a third way. And there's no a lot of people at one time. And then the last question is how are you going to move them from discovery call to decision? That's the sales process.

Too many agencies right now don't have a process. So Jim's system to get your prospects to the finish line.

The number one key in having a successful sales organization today is having a marketing and sales process. Yeah. And there is no perfect process. Just have a process. Any thoughts on that, Kareem? Doing it one way, Bill's doing it another way, Sally's doing it a third way. And there's no system to get your prospects to the finish line.

The number one key in having a successful sales organization today is having a marketing and sales process.

Here's what I was gonna say. You said you mentioned something when you were just telling your story from the beginning in this segment. And I just want to point this out to everybody because this is something big for us in our agency. You cannot be the financial planner. You cannot be the employee benefits guy, you cannot be the property and casualty. I watched too many people with 12.

Different disciplines and there is no perfect process. Just have a process. Any thoughts on that, Kareem?

Well, here's what I was gonna say. You said you mentioned something when you were just telling your story from the beginning in this segment. And I just want to point this out to everybody because this is something big for us in our agency. You cannot be the financial planner. You cannot be the employee benefits guidelines trying to be effective in their agency. So our thought has always been let's perfect and become known for what we know and have it be a subject matter expert and know that well, like let's learn. Now we decide to add additional business models to it, then that's fine. But we've got to have the goose, the legs, the golden egg first. And the biggest mistake that you cannot be the property in casualty. I watched too many people with 12 different disciplines trying to be effective in their agency. So our thought has always been let's perfect and become known for what we know and have it be a subject matter. I see with a lot of people is that's what I refer to of the idea of the month club. They'll have somebody, somebody comes into the office and they're saying, oh, you need to be selling Medicare. And everybod goes out and they get Medicare certified. And then somebody comes in the office the next week and they say, you know, you need to be selling iuls. And then everybody know that. Well, like let's know that now we decide to add additional business models to it. Everybody sells ieos. And then the next week, oh, well, we need to be doing healthcare. Oh, well, you know, it's open enrollment there, then that's fine. But we've got to have the goose delays, the golden egg first. And the biggest mistake that I see with a lot of people is what I refer to of the idea of the month club. They'll have somebody, somebody comes into the office and they're saying, oh, you need to be selling Medicare. Then everybody goes out and they get met over here for the and so they're so spread across that when I ask them, what do you do? Well, they can't answer that question, Andy. And so I think that that is an issue that I still see because it becomes the money bag. You don't care certified. And then somebody comes in the office the next week and they say, you know, you need to be selling Iuls. And then we're going to keep grabbing from all these places, but they're not efficient in anything. And so when I look at as you and I tease and I talk about our health care celebrities out in our world, and I Look everybody selling IEOs, and then the next, oh, well, we need to be doing health care. Oh, well, you know, it's open enrollment there over here for this. And so they're so spread across that when I ask them, what do you do? Well, they can't answer that question, Andy. And so I think all the different things that they promote, you know what I mean? I'm like, oh, my God, they got everything. They're cannibalizing the industry with idea after idea after idea. And I don't know that that is an issue that I still see because it becomes the money bag, you know, about you guys. But I got a slight bit of add, so I'm squirrel. I mean, I mean, if you get me like that, I'm all over the place. And so you don't. You don't have an effective. We're going to keep grabbing from all these places, but they're not efficient in anything. And so when I produce her, because he or she is trying to do 12 different things at one time, get them look at as you and I tease and I talk about our healthcare celebrities out in our world, and I look at all the different things that they promote. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, my God, they got everything. They're kind of focused on the thing that they do well and let them stay there. And as you begin to build cannibalizing the industry with idea after idea after idea and, I don't know, other verticals, that's fine. But make sure that you understand what pays the bills while you're building the agency.

That's a great segue. Let's dive into point number two, sales leadership. We got agency owners on, on the call here that might be hiring producers in the future.

We've got about you guys, but I got a slight bit of add, so I'm squirrel. I mean, I mean, if you get me like that, I'm all over the place. And so you don't you don't have an effective producer because he or she is trying to do 12 different things at one time.

Get them sales leaders on the call who are already managing and working with producers. And we have producers focus on the.

Thing that they do well and let them stay there. And as you begin to build who.

Might become sales leaders someday or want to know what the key traits are of leadership when you look at agencies today? Let's start with what are some of the common mistakes you see amongst leadership, whether it is the sales leader, the agency owner when it comes to hiring, training or finding good producers.

Well, again, we talked about this briefly. Other verticals, that's fine. But make sure that you understand what pays the bills while you're building the agency.

That's a great segue. Let's dive into point number two, sales leadership. We got agency owners on, on the call here that might be hiring producers in the future.

We've got. They're looking for themselves. And, and I mean, you're one of one. I mean, let's just face it, you're.

One of one sales leaders on the call who are already managing and working with producers. And we have producers.

So you go looking for yourself. You're not always. So I have a great story. So I have one of my, one of my most successful reps that I had where I had the most fun coaching. You know why Andy? Because he was like me. Tell me how many times I found him. Again, I have it.

I mean, who might become sales leaders someday or want to know what the key traits are of leadership when you look at agencies today? Let's start with what are some of the common mistakes you see amongst leadership, Whether it is the sales leader, the agency owner, when it comes to.

It's not. And that's not to say that we're so great. It's just that the style that we have. I could.

Hiring, training or finding good producers.

Well, again, we talked about this briefly. Tell him, hey, we're going to go out and we're going to do this. And this is a true example. We were selling in the city of Detroit. We had city of Detroit workers and in the summer they'd be out cutting grass and so they payroll deduction slot. I could tell they're looking for themselves. And, and I mean, you're one of one. I mean, let's just face it, you're one of one. And so you, you go looking for yourself, you know, so I have a great story. So I have one of my. One of my. Gerald, hey, listen, go talk to the guys on the side of the highway. Because that's what I would most successful reps that I had where I had the most fun coaching. You know why Andy? Cause he was like me. Tell me how many times I found him again, I have it. I mean, as you do. And he would go do it. And I could have 10 other representatives. I tell them that they look at me like I'm crazy. But he was fun because he was me. He's the only guy I've had like that in 25 years. So I had to understand, I had to shift and figure out how I was going to attract other people. And I think the biggest issue we have is what we alluded to from the beginning. You take the person who's got the best sales in the room and you automate automatically make him or her the sales leader.

Help.

Most of the time they're not good sales leaders. Let's just face it. They are just not good sales. They're great for themselves. I mean they can do it fantastic because they know what they do. But there's nothing that they're doing that's replicatable because the average person doesn't have that same skill set. And so what we're not. And that's not to say that we're so great. It's just that the style that we have. I can. What we've done is we've built our agency on what I refer to as the trust model, you know, and so tell him, hey, we're going to go out and we're going to do this. And this is a true example. We were selling in the city of Detroit. We had city of Detroit workers and in the summer they'd be out cutting grass and so they payroll deduction slot. I could tell Jim. So our trust model is that one we've got to create trust in the agency, right? We've got to be able to have trust to get people to go there. But our trust model simply goes that we trigger results understanding salespeople's traits, right? So that's trust. We trigger results understanding salespeople's traits. If I understand their traits, then I can put them in the right Gerald, hey, listen, go talk to the guys on the side of the highway. Because that's what I would do and he would go do it and I could have 10 other representatives. I tell them that they look at me like I'm crazy. But he was fun because he was me. He's the only guy I've had like that in 25 years. So I Had to understand. I had to shift and figure out how position so it becomes the old Jim Collins.

Right?

Good to great people on the bus in the right seat. We all know that. I used to talk about that all the time but I didn't really apply it right. It was just a good sound bite to say, hey, we got to put it. But no. I had to understand the traits of the folks that I was working with because I could not coach them in the same way. What got Gerald going, I was going to attract other people. And I think the biggest issue we have is what we alluded to from the beginning. You take the person who's got the best sales in the room and you automate automatically make him or her the sales leader. Hell, most of the time they're not good sales leaders. Let's just face it. They are just not good sales. They're great for themselves. Was that he was willing to do crazy stuff that I was willing to do. Everybody else wasn't willing to do crazy stuff. And I realized that that was the bulk of the people that I was going to talk to. So I had to begin to develop the trust model. And that trust model was like how do I get results out of Andy? And his traits are different than Marcus's traits. I mean they can do it fantastic because they know what they do. But there's nothing that they're doing that's replicatable because the average person doesn't have that same skill set. And so what what we've done is we've built our agency on what I refer to as the trust model, you know. And so. So our trust model is that one we've got to create trust in the agency, right? We've got to be. So in that being the case, I've got to be able to move Andy based upon his traits. What are his distinguished characteristics that make him move? What is it? It may not be the golf club, it may not be the car. Think about it, Andy. We've always talked about that. When we got into business, that was it. You know, Gideon get renewals. Retire golf all day long Boat. It was the old Carlton sheets back in the day. The ladies dancing behind you and you able to have trust to get people to go there. But our trust model simply goes that we trigger results understanding salespeople's traits. Right? So that's trust. We trigger results understanding salespeople's traits. If I understand their traits then I can put them in the right position. So it becomes the old Jim Collins. Right? Good to great people on the bus.

In the right seat.

We all know that. You know, it's all great. This is. This is the deal. And I bought into that. I'm like, lifestyle is everything. This is lifestyle. No, no. Everybody is not going to get up for lifestyle, but that does not mean that they can't be an effective producer. And I think people who are the lifestyle people, they try to put that on other folks. And when that's that their motivation. I used to talk about that all the time, but I didn't really apply it. Right. It was just a good sound bite to say, hey, we gotta put it. But no. I had to understand the traits of the folks that I was working with because I could not coach them in the same way. What got Gerald going was that he was willing to do crazy stuff that I was willing to do. Everybody else was a factor. Guess what? They're frustrated. The person they're trying to coach is frustrated, but yet they've been the leader placed in that position because they had the most amount of sales. And so that is just misguided for where people are today. People have actually, you know, news alert. People have other things that they're concerned with besides cars and houses and boats. I mean, that's just willing to do crazy stuff. And I realized that that was the bulk of the people that I was going to talk to. So I had to begin to develop the trust model. And that trust model was like, how do I get results out of Andy? Andy's traits are different than Marcus's traits. And so in that being the case, I've got to be able to move Andy based upon his traits. What are his distinguished characteristics, you know, as kind of an old model? And he's. To your point, Generation Z and millennials, that's not their focus. They want to know, what kind of impact are we making? And so if I find somebody and that's their trait and they're looking at the social impact that we have, I've got to be able to talk to them. I know each person on my. My team, how to move them, because I understand their traits. And that's something that I just don't see that make him move. What is it? It's not. It may not be the golf club. It may not be the car. Think about it, Andy. We've always talked about that. When we got into business, that was it. You know, Gideon, get renewals, Retire golf all day long. Boat. It was the old Carlton sheets back in the day. The ladies dancing behind you and you, you know, it's all great. This is. This is the deal. And I bought into that. I'm like, lifestyle is everything. This is who people spend time with and understanding the traits of the folks that they have. And they try to train them, they try to guide them, they try to coach them the same way. And so I'm less concerned about their goals when they come to my agency. I'm more concerned about what traits do I have? Are these traits that we can work with? Are these traits that we can. Lifestyle? No, no. Everybody is not going to get up for lifestyle, but that does not mean that they can't be an effective producer. And I think people who are the lifestyle people, they try to put that on other folks. And when that's that their motivating factor, guess what? They're frustrated. The person they're trying to coach is fresh coach. Because if they're coachable, I can put them in a place to help them continue to develop their traits. Right. And if I can help them develop their traits, then they become a very effective person for me. Now, maybe they're not knocking the COVID off the ball, but if they're giving me 80% versus the guy who's 100%, yet he's a cancer in the organization, hell, I'll take that 80% across several different branded. But yet they've been the leader placed in that position because they had the most amount of sales. And so that is just misguided for where people are today. People have actually people. Right. I'll look at that and say, here's how we develop them. But we looked at it strictly off the trust market. And here's the other thing that I will say with that, Andy. But it's not just simply one way when we talk, you know, news alert, people have other things that they're concerned with besides cars and houses and boats. I mean, that's just, you know, it's kind of an old model. And he's. To your point, Generation Z and Millennials, that's not there about the trust. And that's something that we press an agency. Right. It's trust for me, understanding the sales people traits. But it's also important that if you're a sales person understanding your sales leaders traits focus. They want to know what kind of impact are we making. And so if I find somebody and that's their trait and they're looking at the social impact that we have, I've got to be able to talk to them. I know each person on my team.

Right.

Because it's something that helps them move as well. And so it's a two way street of how we formalize this trust. I also have to understand my sales leaders traits, what gets them, how to move them because I understand their traits and that's something that I just don't go on. My guys know me. They know, as I said earlier, I want to do some unthinkable, unimaginable, so they'll put a task like that in front of me. They know my trait. That's something that I'm going to go get see people spend time with and understanding the traits of the folks that they have. And so it becomes a two way deal that the trust model ultimately creates trust. And then probably the most important piece in that when we still talk about that trust model is simply saying you trigger how to train them. They try to guide them, they try to coach them the same way. And so I'm less concerned about their goals when they come to my agency. I'm more concerned about what traits do I have. Results by understanding your own self traits as well. I had to understand what my traits are. What were the traits that I could develop more of, what could I spend more time in? Because that are these traits that we can work with. Are these traits that we can coach? Because if they're coachable I can put them in a place to help them continue to develop their traits. Right. And if I began to be the three legged stool for our agency and that's why we run so efficiently, because I understand the traits of my guys.

I got two questions I want to ask you off that one. One's going to be directed at sales.

Help them develop their traits, then they become a very effective person for me. Now maybe they're not knocking the COVID off the ball but if they're giving me 80% versus the guy who's 100%.

And agency owners, the other is going to be directed at a producer. So the first for the agency owner and sales leader, you said something that comes up a lot in our industry. What, what advice would you give a.

Leader yet he's a cancer in the organization. Hell, I'll take that 80% across several different people. Right. I'll look at that and say here's how we developed them. But we looked at it strictly off.

The agency owner who may have that producer in the office who is an unbelievable producer, crushes his or her numbers but is also kind of cancerous to the culture.

And here's the other thing that I will say with that Andy. But it's not just simply one way when we talk about the trust and that's something that we press an agency, right. Is trust for me, understanding the salespeople trait.

We see this all the time. I work for agencies where you've got the all star producer killing it, but he or she is not a good team member. At the end of the day the agency kind of puts him or her in the corner and just says well let them do their thing.

But it's also important that if you're a salesperson understanding your sales leaders traits, right. Because it's something that helps them move as well. And so it's a two way street of how we form.

What is your thought about that when you do have that situation? Because I know a lot of agency owners run into that.

Well, nobody's going to like my answer. My answer is get rid of the cancer. Right. And that's the answer. That's, that's, that's unpopular answer. Right. But, but I've got to think about this. I've got to think about how much of a detriment they are inside of the agency. And so each time and I analyze this trust, I also have to understand my sales leaders traits. What gets them going? My guys know me. They know, as I said earlier, I want to do something unthinkable, unimaginable and so they'll put a task like that in front of me. They know my trait. That's something that I'm gonna go get. And I had a situation, a great producer, but she was such a cancer in the organization that it negatively affected everybody. It becomes a two way deal. That the trust model ultimately creates trust else how they move the attitude. She was kind of a bully because she was a top salesperson. And I allowed it to go on for several years until I had. And then probably the most important piece in that when we still talk about that trust model is simply saying you trigger results by understanding your own self traits as well. I had to understand what my traits are. What were the traits that I could develop more of? What could I spend more time in because that people leaving, right? I mean folks are leaving. When you kind of look at the exit interview as to why, why did you leave? Well, hey began to be the three legged stool for our agency and that's why we run so efficiently. Because I understand the traits of my. You just kind of allow some nonsense going on. It went on to say, I can say on this call with you, Andy that they thought that I had an intimate relationship with this lady because I allowed her to continue.

I Got two questions I want to ask you off that one. One's going to be directed at sales.

To go along those. I didn't even think about those things. She was just a great producer. She was bringing in revenue. It was fantastic.

And agency owners. The other is going to be directed at a producer. So the first for the agency owner and sales leader.

And so when I understood that, I said, I'll never allow.

You said something that comes up a lot in our industry. What. What advice would you give a leader, agency owner who may have that producer in the office, who is an unbelievable.

Someone to have control of my. I say my agency, but it's our agency, right? I always talk with my guys and times my name is on the door.

But.

But at the end of the day, it's our agency is our cult producer.

Crushes his or her numbers, but is also kind of cancerous to the culture that we build.

And if I allow bullshit like that to go on inside of the agency.

We see this all the time. I worked for agencies where you've got the all star producer killing it, but he or she is not that.

Other people will start to feel like that they need some extra, you know, let me cut some corn.

A good team member. At the end of the day, the agency kind of puts him or her in the corner and just says, well, let them do their thing, right? What is your thought about that when you do have that situation? Because I know a lot of agency owners run into that.

Well, nobody's here. Let me cut some corners here. And it just doesn't make sense. So it's a very unpopular thing. And I'll use this quickly, just as a sports analogy that I can remember, of course, me being the chief fan. I can remember, you know, and not to say that he was a Cancer, but I can just remember when we let Tyreek Hill go and everybody said, you'll never win, I was gonna like my answer. My answer is get rid of the cancer, right? And that's the answer. That's. That's. That's an unpopular answer, right? But. But I've got to think about this. I've got to think about how in another super bowl without Tyree Hill, but they've won two since then, right? And here's the thing that I love about it. They understand the traits of the players, right? I mean, that's just the difference in coaching is that they understand the traits of the players. And so we're not going to allow one player that was a superstar to dictate the future. Of what much of a detriment they are inside of the agency. And so each time. And I had a situation, a great producer, but she was. We're going to do for. We're willing to allow them to go. And so that would be my. That. That's different for everybody. Everybody won't say that because you're going to look at the P. L and say, well, this guy, this lady, they produce so much. But long term, if you're looking at growing it outside of that, that person can be an impediment to growth. And that's a challenge. Look at that. I just talked about such a cancer in the organization that it negatively affected everybody else. How they move, the attitude. She was kind of a bully because she was a top sales Gerald. And he just came on the screen. That's the, that's the one guy I told you about that did all the crazy stuff that I said. That's the one guy right there. That's right. That's hilarious.

So, Kareem, let, let's, let's. Let's spin it now to the producers.

Okay.

What advice would you give a producer on the call or listening in who maybe wants to be a future leader, you know, as somebody.

And I allowed it to go on for several years until I had people leaving. Right? I'm like, folks are leaving. When you kind of look at the exit interview as to why, why did you leave?

Well, hey, who has hired a lot of sales reps in your career? What are some of the traits you look for in a producer that you know is going to have success, Whether it be just selling or a potential future leader in your organization?

You just kind of allow some nonsense going on. It went on to say, I can stay on this call with you, Andy. That they thought, I'm looking at how they build relationships right from the beginning. What would do what. What ability that I had an intimate relationship with this lady because I allowed her to continue. Do they have to have relationships, but not only have relationships to move people? Do they have something that allows them. So that could be a number of different things, right? It could be the ability to sell that allows them to move people. It could be their charisma that allows them to move people. It could be their to go along those. I didn't even think about those things. She was just a great producer. She was bringing in revenue. It was fantastic. And so when I understood that, I said, I'll never allow certainty that allows them to move people. I'm looking for those traits inside of them. That says why would I want to follow this person? That's the first question I asked myself. I wanted to have control of my. I say my agency, but it's our agency right up as a leader. If I'm going to look and raise up another leader, is this somebody that I would follow? Because if I wouldn't follow them, then it's hard for me to be able to position them in a place I always talk with my guys and tell them, yeah, my name is on the door. But. But at the end of the day, it's our agency, it's our cult inside of the organization where I'm thinking that they're going to have other people following them as well. Now, based upon those characteristics again and their traits. I'm looking at their traits. Do they. Do they sure that we build. And if I allow bullshit like that to go on inside of the agency, then other people will start to feel like that they need some extra, you know, let me cut some corn and have the ability to lead.

Right?

There's a number of people that just don't have. And that doesn't mean that they just have to be an outward leader, that they're just crazy and psycho about it like I am. But do they have the ability to lead? I'm looking at those here. Let me cut some corners here. And it just doesn't make sense. So it's a variable producers to say what other skill set do you bring to the table that qualifies you from a leadership role? And that does not. We can't stop talking about that does unpopular thing. And I'll use this quickly just as a sports analogy that I can remember of course does not mean that you write the most premium. I didn't write more premium than Gerald's on call right now. Gerald wrote way more premium than I didn't know. But I understood how to move people. I understood what made me being a Chiefs fan. I can remember, you know, and not to say that he was a cancer, but I can just remember when we let Tyreek Hill go and everybody said, you'll never win, Gerald move. I understood what people in my organization how to make them move to achieve what it was that they were looking for. And that was the game changer. So that's what I'm looking for. If you're a producer and I'm looking to see would have been another super bowl without Tyreek Hill. Well, they've won two since then, right. And here's those intangible skills that you have that I can help Develop in you, right? Because it's back to what we started about earlier. Andy. I got to do something. I mean it, it just that or thing that I love about it. They understand the traits of the players, right? I mean, that, that happened. I mean, you've got those folks to stand up and say, hey, I want to be a leader. You have those other folks that don't even realize it's just the difference in coaching is that they understand the traits of the players. And so we're not going to that they can until somebody comes and says, hey, I see something in you. I see these pieces. He allowed one player that was a superstar to dictate the future of what here that you've done. And now, you know what, you should really consider leadership at this point, and here's why. So I think it's really just about uncovering that, you know, having that, that conversation with them, but looking at what traits do they bring that are unique and what's different. Other thing, I look at the last point on that, Andy. I look for people who have different traits than me because again, if it's, if it's just me doing this thing and everybody can't be me if I've gonna do four, we're willing to allow them to go. And so that would be my. That. That's different for everybody. Everybody won't say that because you're gonna look at the P and L and say, well, this guy, this lady, they produce so much. But long term, if you're looking at growing it outside of that, that person can be an impediment to growth. And that's a challenge. Look at that. I just talked about three other people that are doing those things that people can follow them. I can still build the helm and look down and say, hey, let's make sure that things are going well. But if I'm going to develop leaders, I cannot develop those leaders simply on my style.

Yeah, I love that. You know, my advice, especially to a producer, you know, we are a coaching business today, coaching consulting. And so we look for coachability in people. And the best piece of advice I'd give a producer who's trying to maybe get back on track, take the business to the next level. It starts with this word right here on my board.

It's Gerald. He just came on the screen. That's the, that's the one guy I told you about that did all the crazy system, right.

I think the best producers in the industry are doing the things every day. Nobody wants to do the boring stuff. But when I look at our potential clients that we talk to, I can tell pretty quickly if they're going to be a good fit.

Stuff that I said, that's the one guy right there. That's right. That's hilarious.

So Cream, let's, let's, let's spin it now to the producers.

Okay.

What advice would you give a producer on the call or listening in who maybe wants to be a future leader? You know, as somebody, it's funny in a lot of my conversations with prospective clients, Kareem, I'll ask them in the middle of a conversation, by the way, you former athlete, because I can tell pretty quick if they were. Here's why the best advisors don't need to be told to work out. Who has hired a lot of sales reps in your career. What are some of the traits you look for in a producer that they just need the workout, right? They don't need to be told to go watch game film. They just need to be. They just need to what, know what part of the game film to watch. So if I'm that you know is going to have success, whether it be just selling or a potential future leader in your organization, I'm looking at how.

They build relationships right from the beginning. What would do what, what ability do they have to have relationships but not only have relationships to move.

Trying to find producers. Right now I'm looking for people who are self disciplined. They don't need to be told go pick up the phone or go, go make some social media posts or get out and network. They know how to do it, they're looking to how to do it effectively.

Right.

And that's my, that, you know, I wish I knew that 15 years ago when I was a young producer because I didn't have those traits. But that's it right there. At the end of the day, if you're willing to show up and do the boring things every day and hold.

People, do they have something that allows them. So that could be a number of different things, right.

It could be yourself accountable. You will have success in this business.

And I'll tell you Andy, from my standpoint as a leader, the ability to sell that allows them to move people. It could be their charisma that allows them to move people. It could be their empathy that allows them to move people. I'm looking for those traits inside of them that says why would I want to follow this person? That's the first question I asked my leader. It's important that I put them in the right position to Win though, right? I mean, I cannot put you in a position for which you don't have the skill set for and or is not your strong suit and or trait right? Now I can help you get there, right? I can. We can, we can see what's there. But if I can put you in a position to win and you set up as a leader, if I'm going to look at raise up another leader, is this somebody that is early and you're winning often, then guess what, as we say all the time, Andy, that I would follow because if I wouldn't follow them, then it's hard for me to be able to position them in a place inside of the organization where I'm thinking that they're going to have other people following them as well. Now, based upon those characteristics again and their traits, I'm looking at their traits. Do they? Do they. The best time to coach is when people are winning. Most people want to coach when people are losing. You know, the best time to coach is when they're winning. When they're winning. Now, I can tell you something that you'll be open hearing because you've been having wins over here in this other side and so now you're open to saying, okay, well maybe I could add this to my repertoire and try something different in this place. But most of us as leaders, we just want to coach them and be down on them when they didn't hit the numbers. They didn't do the right thing that we thought was the right thing. But it's my goal and it's my job as the leader to put them in position such that they can do the mundane things and because have the ability to lead. Right. There's a number of people that just don't have. And that doesn't mean that they just have to be an outward leader, that they're consistent, but they've got to know why they're doing those things. And that's my position. Just crazy and psycho about it like I am. But do they have the ability to lead? I'm looking at those producers to say, what other skill set do you bring to the table that qualifies you from a leadership role? And that does not. We can't stop talking about that.

And that leads to our last area here, number three, before we go into some Q Q and a diversity of thought. You know, we talked about at the beginning, one of the challenges with a lot of agencies, you're hiring producers to bring in to do it the way you've always done it and things have changed, especially as you're looking to hire younger producers. Guys that younger generations, they're questioning everything, right? And what we, what we look at when we think of diversity of thought isn't so much, you know, different backgrounds, different beliefs. It's. No, we're talking about you got to let these people be branded.

Not mean that you write the most premium. I didn't write more premium than Gerald's on call right now. Gerald wrote way more premium than I didn't know. But I understood how to move people. I understood what made Gerald move. I understood what people in my organization, how to make them move to achieve what it was that they were looking.

I said it at the beginning of the call. The best agencies understand producers. You're renting the brand of your producer. They're not renting your logo. And that goes for the smallest independent agency or the largest.

And that was the game changer. So that's what I'm looking for. If you're a producer, I'm looking to.

See what just consulting firm in the industry. When you let your producers be brands, good things happen. Kareem, I gotta be honest, I am actually pleased. I've. We've gotten a chance to work with some of the largest firms in this industry, and they're starting to let their producers build brands. I was shocked. And it's nice to see because that tells me the industry is evolving. And you said, you know, you talked about earlier building brands. Guys, a brand to me is formed at the intersection of what makes you unique and what you want to be known for. Right. Think about that. What makes you unique, those intangible skills.

That you have that I can help develop in you.

Right.

Because it's back to what we started about earlier. Andy, I got to do something. I mean, it did it just that organically happened. I mean, you've got those folks to stand up and say, hey, I want to be a leader. You have those other folks that don't even realize that they can be leaders until somebody comes and says, hey, I see something in you. I see these pieces unique and what.

You want to be known for. So talk to that a little bit, Kareem, about you said it earlier. You don't want to be the agency that sells 12 different things and talks about 12 different things. One of the areas where brands are built quickly is when you become a specialist.

Yes.

Talk about that a little bit.

Yes. I liken it to medical practice. Right. You got the general practitioner that does what they do, and then you get the specialist, you get the cardiologist you get, the neurologist you get those. Those are. Guys make all the money, right? I mean, when here that you've done. And now, you know what, you should really consider leadership at this point. And here's why. So I think it's really just about uncovering that, you know, having that, that conversation with all said and done. Right. Because they specialize. I can tell you where our agency shifted and changed. And I know, but looking at what traits do they bring that are unique and what's different. The other thing, I look at the last point on that, Andy, I look for people who have different traits than me because again, if it's. If it's just me doing this thing and everybody can't be me, if I can go back to 2014, actually, I can go back to when ACA came about. ACA came about. And we were going to do the same things, right? The question came up, well, what are you guys going to do? We're going to sell more stuff. I mean, if they want to let us sell health insurance, we'll sell anyway. And I had a guy who came into the agency who is economic. He's an economics guy by kind of trade, if you will. So he sees things. Totally got three other people that are doing those things that people can follow them. I can still build the helm and look down and say, hey, let's make sure that things are going well. But if I'm going to develop leaders, I cannot develop those leaders simply on my style.

Yeah, I love that. You know, my advice, especially to a producer, you know, we are a coaching business today. Coaching, consulting, and so different than I see things.

And so he started talking to me about the economics of health care, how healthcare changed. Up until that point, Andy, I had just been a traditional transactional broker. I spreadsheet like everybody else. I put it in front of you, pick which one you want, I pick up and I leave. But I had never become a subject matter expert on anything. When he came into the agency and he began to talk to me about, do you understand the cost of health care? Do you understand what the unit cost? He started getting down into the economics of health care. I'm like, dude, you're way over my head. However, diversity of thought, right? It was, it was a different.

We look for coachability in people. And the best piece of advice I'd give a producer who's trying to maybe get back on track, take the business to the next level. It starts with this word right here on my board. It's consistent Right. I think the best producers in the industry are doing the things every day. Nobody wants to do the boring stuff.

Way of thinking for us than what we had done. Because before I was just hiring people who could spreadsheet.

But when I look at our potential clients that we talk to, I can tell pretty quickly if they're going to be a good fit just like me.

They get out spreadsheet, do your thing and keep it moving. When we got to that level where we started changing the way that we approach our healthcare business, we started looking at this. So that took us from there to how I met you talking about captives and talking about self funding and, and here's what it did. We were in a stream where we were always sweat.

It's funny in a lot of my conversations with prospective clients, Kareem, I'll ask them in the middle of a conversation by the way, you former athlete because I can tell pretty quick if they were. Here's why the best advisors don't need to be told to work out.

I mean 50, 100 lives, 200 lives. That was our deal when we came in and we had a diversity of thought. We're now 9,000 lives, 10,000 lives, 12,000 lives.

They just need the workout, right? They don't need to be told to go watch game film because it changed.

The way that we thought about the practice. We became subject matter experts in the area that most people were not willing to study. Most people weren't willing to have somebody come in and shift and change because of the old ad. This is the way we've always done it. So if I would not have been open to looking at the diversity of thought in that space then I would have found myself still doing today what.

I they just need to be, they just need to what? Know what part of the game film to watch. So if I'm trying to find producers right now I'm looking for people who are self disciplined. They don't need to be told go pick up the phone or go, go make some social media posts or get out and network. They know how to have been doing.

15 years ago and I'd probably be swimming in the same space to do it.

They're looking to how to do it effectively.

Right.

And, and that's my, that you know.

I wish I was swimming in back there and I always speak to him and I say to him listen, because you came in and had me look at a different way of looking at things that changed our industry and how we move things. But what he says to me is I told some people this before you and they couldn't see the difference. So because you were willing to implement.

I knew that 15 years ago when I was a young producer because I didn't have those traits. But that's it right there. At the end of the day, if you're willing to show up and do the boring things every day and hold yourself accountable, you will have success in this business.

And I'll tell you, Andy, from my standpoint as a leader, some of the ideas that I put on the floor for you, we together were able to make a shift in the change in the agency and we've been better before because of it. And that's been diversity of thought. My friend.

Quickly talk though. I love that because I. You shared that story with the the when you hired Rob. Peter.

It's important that I put them in the right position to win though, right? I mean. Yes.

How has that helped you go into an entirely new market? Right. You've been Detroit, Michigan historically, during the pandemic, you made a move down to Tampa. You now spend a lot of time in Tampa. You guys have actually started to grow a nice business in Tampa. Do you believe having that, that, that thought leadership, that specialization has that allowed.

I cannot put you in a position for which you don't have the skill set for and or is not your strong suit and or trait right now. I can help you get out you.

Guys to go into an, an entirely new market and have success.

Yeah, right. I, I can, we can, we can see what's there. But if I can put you in a position to win, and you said this early and you're winning often, then guess what? As we say all the time, Andy, salute. It goes back to your kind of your question or your comments about being in Colorado. Come down to Florida. And of course they say to me in Florida and Rhett may agree with this, that people just don't do self funding in Florida. This is not something they do. They stay fully insured. This is that and other. So I came in with that people telling me that, but I didn't believe it because I wasn't here. I came from somewhere else. So in my mind I'm like hell, this is what we do. And what I want to do is I want to tell the story different than maybe they've heard it before. And I began to tell the story different and people were like, wow, I've never heard. My broker didn't tell me that. This broker didn't me tell. So you're telling me that we can have complete control. If we did this or we did this. Yeah. The best time to coach is when people are winning. Most people want to coach when people are losing. You know, the best time to coach is when they're winning. When they're winning. Now, I can tell you something that you'll be open to hearing because you've been having wins over here in this other side, and so now you're open to saying, okay, well, maybe I could add this to my repertoire and try something different. You can have complete control. Well, we've never heard it that way. So why would you tell me something that the biggest Alphabet houses haven't told me? I don't know why they haven't told you this. They do this. They do this type of business. But for me, it was that we didn't have any reason to believe otherwise. So our thought process has shifted. We bought. We bought into it so much, the whole agency shifted to that that we came in and said, you know what? You can pull out your pbm. You can look at it. We got into the technical piece in this place, but most of us as leaders, we just want to coach them and be down on them. When they didn't hit the numbers, they didn't do the right thing that we thought was the right thing. But it's my goal and it's my job as the leader to put them in positions such that they can do the mundane things. And because to say there is a different way. But what we had to do was transfer that diversity of thought now from not the agency standpoint, but to our prospects to get them to start thinking about things. System. But they've got to know why they're doing those things. And that's my position differently as well. And once we begin to do that, Andy, we've had success in people saying, wow, we just didn't know we could do it this way because everybody told us that it was this way. And you said something earlier as well. I won't work with a prospect if I feel like we won't be on the same page. So I've gotten to that point in my business where I walk away from the business because it's going to be a struggle if we got. If I'm talking to you and you're still talking to your other broker and they're telling you something different than what I'm telling you, and we're going back and forth, I don't want to be bothered with that.

I'm out.

You know what I mean? For that reason, I'M out. So when I look at that.

And that leads to our last area here, number three, before we go into some Q and A, diversity of thought. You know, we talked about at the beginning, one of the challenges with a lot of agencies, you're hiring producers to bring in to do it the way you've always done it. And things have changed, especially as you're looking to hire younger producers, guys that younger generations, they're questioning everything at that change in thought.

That got us to a space where now, again, the numbers and the confidence level that you go, that, you know, you can go into a space where you can talk the language in that area where it makes sense at 9,000 that they said, why wouldn't we do this?

Here's what I want everybody to hear. And I'm going to wrap it up, bring it home before we go to Q and A. That was awesome. Because. And what we, what we look at when we think of diversity of thought isn't so much, you know, different backgrounds, different beliefs. It's. No, we're talking about, you got to let these people be brands. I said it at the beginning of the call that the best agencies understand producers. You're renting the brand of your producer. I want everybody to hear this message. The more you try to do, the more you try to sell, the less expansive your geography. The more you try to specialize, the more narrow you go with what you do, the more expansive your market will be. They're not renting your logo. And that goes for the smallest independent agency or the large. The people who have decided to become a specialist, their market now has expanded, in some cases nationwide. The agencies that are trying to still sell everything because we can help everybody, are the ones whose market is the most narrow.

Yep.

I'll wrap by saying this, guys. Why did we want to talk about this today? Because I get largest consulting firm in the industry. When you let your producers be brands, good things happen. Cream. I gotta be honest. I am actually pleased. I've. We've gotten a chance to work with some of the largest firms in this industry, a lot of agency owners who look to hire my firm. And one of the questions we get a lot is, well, what's the roi? And I know when they ask that what they're wanting to know how much. And they're starting to let their producers build brands. I was shocked. And it's nice sales. Are you going to help us generate? And I always answer the question the same way. I say, well, let me ask you this.

This.

What's The ROI on a team of sales producers who freaking love what they do. Because I'll tell you, competing with a team of producers who freaking love what they do is a dangerous team. I don't want to compete with.

So why we wanted to do this today guys, because whether you're a solopreneur right now and you might be hiring your first producer or you manage a team today to see because that tells me the industry is evolving. And you said, you know, you talked about earlier building brands, guys, a brand to me is formed at the intersection of what makes you you. What we wanted to talk about is number one, you have to adapt how you train them. The best thing you can do right now from a training perspective is build prospecting strategies around the producers personalities. There is not one way to do things and it's not the way you did it 30 years ago. Have a marketing process, have a sales process, build them around the producer's personality and they will show up every day consistently. Number two, as a leader you have to meet the producers where they're at. To Kareem's point, you got to know their traits. Not every producer is the same. Not everybody's going to be like Gerald. So you have to have that diversity in how you're training your producers because they, they come in with different traits. And number three, it is building a brand today. Whether you're an agency, you have a brand but you also have a team of producers who each have a brand. And the more narrow you go as far as what you do and how you do it, the more expansive your network's going to be. Your mark, unique and what you want to be known for. Right? Think about that. What makes you unique and what you want to be known for. So talk to that a little bit, Kareem, about you said it earlier, you don't want to be the agency that sells 12 different things and talks about 12 different things. One of the areas where brands are, it's going to be and you will have a team, a dangerous team of producers who freaking love what they do and are damn good at what they do.

The best agencies I know today don't try to do everything. They become known for one thing and they become the best at it. Think about how your agency, your firm can become the same way. So with that being said, that I'm going to open up the floor. Kareem, for Q and A. I don't see any questions. Maybe we have one right now.

There's only one thing. There's one thing in the Chat.

And it simply said, yeah, right now we have somebody who told you we.

Have to address that.

Somebody who told you that they're a Chiefs fan as well. But guys, this is your opportunity here. Whether you want to unmute yourself and ask. You want to fire it in the chat box. If you have any questions right now, this is your opportunity to fire a Matt, Kareem or myself. So I'm going to open the floor. Anybody have any questions?

Gerald Scruggs here. I know I came in a little. I was having problem getting on and I had another phone call, blah, blah, blah.

Built quickly is when you become a specialist.

Yes.

Talk about that a little bit.

Yes. Well, I liken it to medical practice. Right. You got the general practitioner that does what they do and then you get the specialist, you get the cardiologist, you get the neurologist, you get those. Those are guys make all the money, right? I mean, when it's all said and done, right, because they specialize. I can tell you where our agency shifted and changed. And I can go back to 2014, actually, I can go back to when ACA came about. ACA came a lot anyway.

Good morning, Kareem. Good morning, Andy. Pleasure meeting you. And everyone else there. I thought my ears were burning. Kareem was over there talking about me, but just to confirm, and I don't know what he said, but I'm gonna just echo you guys to confirm. Some of you talk about diversity of thought. When I started in the business, what do we got 24 years ago now, Kareem? 23, 24. I was told nobody ever. All the agents said, because we had a Detroit public schools, you can't make money in the summer school. I mean in the schools, because nobody's working. Kareem said, girl, the schools are still open. The custodians and the teacher engineers are there. So I went to all 380something schools in the summertime and people were wondering, how is he writing all this premium? I got accused of stealing people's clients. I was, you know, again, at that time, Andy, I was new to the insurance industry. I was intelligently ignorant. I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know you weren't supposed to be sitting. So I'm making money every day and. But again, diversity of thought. And then when school started back, I took what Kareem introduced me to, luncheon theory, where we would have a little luncheon. Now, Kareem, I gotta talk about you on this. My first view of a luncheon was a 2 liter pop came about and.

We were gonna do the same things, right?

We.

The question came up, well, what are you guys gonna do? We're gonna sell more stuff. I mean, they won't let us sell health insurance. We'll see. And I had a guy who came into the agency who is economic. He's an economics guy by. By kind of trade, if you will. So he sees things totally different than I see things. And so he started talking to me about the economics of health care, how healthcare changed. Up until that point, Andy, I had just been a traditional transactional bro.

It went to Ponderosa, got a bag of 35 wings, they set it on the table. This is the lunch. I'm like, what the hell is that? Now, my mother used to own a restaurant. So I turned around and said, okay, now we're gonna get chicken trays, sandwich trays, vegetable, fruit. We're gonna have three different types of beverages, put flowers on the table.

All of a sudden, okay, I spreadsheet like everybody else. I put it in front of you, pick which one you want, I pick up and I leave. But I never become a subject matter expert on anything. When he came into the agency, getting.

40, 50 teachers coming here, I'm getting appointments with just about everybody. And I spent the whole week, you know, and I'm writing 15, 20,000 every week. You know, I thought that was how everybody should do it. But again, I was crazy. So again, the Kareem's thing of diversity of thought, it definitely works. And even now, taking a business, I used to thought it was a big deal.

And he began to talk to me about, do you understand the cost of healthcare? Do you understand what the unit cost? He started getting down into the economics of healthcare.

I'm like, dude, chasing teachers up and down the hall. You know, we writing disability, we writing accident.

La la la la.

Man, we thought we were in heaven. Now. Diversifying my agency, God bless the teams. I appreciate you guys who are leaders, but I don't want to do that anymore because I got you're way over my head.

However, diversity of thought, right? It was a different.

I tired of trying to make grown folks go to work, okay, so I have a solo agency now way of.

Thinking for us than what we had done. Because before I was just hiring people who could spreadsheet. Just like me. They get out spreadsheet, do your thing and keep it moving. When we got to that level where.

We started, I go from talking to teachers to now I'm talking to organizations with six figures of association members And a couple of associations who have millions of people in their organization who I'm getting ready to write up. We're talking about entire state organizations.

Let me say this in that regard. What Gerald said back to agency owners started changing the way that we approach our healthcare. When he did that, I had to be open to the fact that there's a different way of doing it right. And so I embraced it. And so that's business we started going through that said. So that took us from there to how I met Utah. Part of having other folks around is that you can embrace that and you have a different look. So I didn't shut it down and say, hey, we don't do it that way. We put a 2 liter pop on the table talking about captives and talking about self funding and here's what it did. We were in the stream where we were always swimming 50, 100 lives, 200 lives. That was our deal when we came in and we had a diversity of three point wings. No, I embraced that and we took that model and we use that model from there on out. The other thing that I would say that you've got to know your trait. I said that that was part of you got to know yourself trait. For him to make the acknowledgement that hey, I don't want to run an agency, I want to be a solopreneur and that's my deal. That's understanding your own strengths. And I think that we're now 9,000 lives, 10,000 lives, 12,000 lives. Because it changed the way that we thought about the practice we became. Many people try to figure out I'm going to do something different. If that's the best model for you, stick in that model and make sure that you're the best in that respective model because you're still a producer as well as being an agency owner. But if you know that you're not going to train anybody else, you know that because it's not going to just happen. You gotta be engaged with the same subject matter experts in the area that most people were not willing to study. Most people weren't willing to have somebody come in and shift and change because of the old adage, this is the way we've always done it. Those folks and get in the movie. Andy. So I'll turn it back to you Andy.

I got one. We do have time for one question here. Eric asked for new agency owner Kareem. When would you recommend making the first new producer hire? I have a thought on that. I'll let you go first.

First so, so for me, in looking at the first producer hire. Well, first of all. So if I would not have been open to looking at the diversity of thought in that space, then I would have found myself still doing today what I'll be looking at, how profitable I am as a business on the front end. Right. Because it's, it's two, it's two thoughts. Is this producer hire going to be commission only or is this producer hire going to be somebody that you're going to have to give some money to along the way? So, so I have two schools of thought with that. One would be the financial had been doing 15 years ago and I'd probably be swimming in the same space that I was swimming in back there. And I always speak to him and I say to him, side of it, right. But the second side of it would be as soon as I come across somebody that looks like they're able to help me expand the business and expand the business in a way that I have not been able to do it, they add to what we're doing. I'm going to hire them in a minute. They can understand the vision. I'm going to hire them sooner rather than later. So, Eddie, I'll let you respond to what your thoughts are. Listen, because you came in and had me look at a different way of looking at things that changed our industry and how we move things. But what he says to me is.

I told some people, and by the way, guys, if any of this resonates and you want to have a deeper conversation about this, this before you.

And they couldn't see the difference. So because you were willing to implement some of the ideas that I put on the floor for you, we together were able to make a thing.

I'm probably connected with every single one of you on LinkedIn. So go there, shoot me a message. I'm happy. We're happy to have a deeper conversation on this. On the subjects we talked about today. This is what my company does just for full transparency. But my answer to that is this. Kareem, I got this piece of advice. You know, I run a business like you. I own my own company. I was the first shift in the.

Change in the agency. And we've been better before because of it. And that's been diversity of thought, my friend.

Quickly talk though. I love that because I. You shared that story with the, the when you hired Rob, first producer, right. When you're in business, when you own the business, you're in sales, whether you like it or not. And one of the Pieces of advice I got from a mentor was, you know, when you're making hires and you're growing a business honestly, sales is probably the last thing you need to hire because you will always be yes. How has that helped you go into an entirely new market? Right. You've been Detroit, Michigan has the best producer. It's your company. No one's ever going to sell what you do with the historically, during the pandemic, you made a move down to Tampa. You now spend a lot of time in passion. You do because it's yours. So my advice, Eric is great. When you, when you're at the time to hire a producer, you're in a very good spot. But my answer would go a little different. I tell people, number one, the first person you need to hire is who's going to manage you Tampa. You guys have actually started to grow a nice business in Tampa. Do you believe having that, that, that thought leadership, that specialization has that allowed whether that's an executive assistant, how'd you guys to go into an entirely new market and have success? Name it, who's managing you, your inbox, your calendar, your travel.

Then it goes back to your kind of your question or your comments about being in Colorado. Right? So I come down, who's going to.

Manage your employ your clients, who's gonna take care of your marketing and then who's gonna help you grow with sales? Because remember, at the end of the day, you will always be the best producer.

And you know, Andy, that's just a great point in terms of adding to that. I can tell you that as we started to grow, I had a part time office assistant until it became a full time office to Florida. And of course they say to me in Florida and Rhett may agree with this, that people just don't do self funding in Florida. This is not something they do. They stay fully insured. This is that and other. So I came in with that people telling me that, but I didn't believe it because I wasn't here. I came from somewhere because very much just what you said. I mean I'm good at what I'm good at. But you know, doing all the other paperwork, all the other stuff and I still want to go out and sell. I had to have somebody answering calls, answering emails. And so that has been a space. And you know, Michelle in my office, Michelle's out. So in my mind I'm like hell, this is what we do. And what I want to do is I want to tell this been with me 15 years now. Now when People ask me who's the most valuable person on my team. I will tell them that as Michelle. So it's interesting that you say that, Andy, because Michelle is the most valuable person on my team. If you want to get on my calendar, if you want to talk to me, not because I'm just such a big shot. And that's the deal. She keeps me or she manages me, Andy. That's her job. Story different than maybe they've heard it before. And I began to tell the story different, and people were like, wow, I've never heard. My broker didn't tell me that. This broker didn't me tell. So you're telling me that we could have complete control if we did this or we did this? Yeah, you can have complete control. Well, we've never heard it that way. So why would you tell me something that the big. She's good at it and she understands my traits. She understands how to move me into places that Alphabet houses haven't told me. I don't know why they haven't told you this. They do this. They do this type of, you know, I need to move in and how I need to work. And so that is one that I'll never give up. If I lost all producers and I lost everybody else, I would keep Michelle because I can still grow the agents.

If she leaves you, I'll hire.

And I told her that.

Well, guys, thank you for taking the time. I hope you found a lot of value on this. We will be shooting the recording out later today, but, yeah, we wanted to bring some value to you guys today from the leadership side. Hiring producers, even giving some producers, you know, some tips on how to take your business to the next level business.

But for me, it was that we didn't have any reason to believe otherwise. So our thought process has shift. We bought. We bought into it so much. The whole agency shifted to that that we came in and said, you know what, you can pull out your pbm. You can look at it. We got into the technical pieces to say there is a different way. But what we had to do was transfer that diversity.

Kareem has an outstanding firm. He's built a lot of amazing brand recognition. Not in only Detroit, now in Florida. Like I said, guys, this is something you're thinking about going into 2025. Go to LinkedIn, shoot me a note. I'm happy to chat about it. So. So other than that, have a beautiful day. Stay sane in Q4. Kareem, thank you.

Hey, man, I appreciate it. This is the closest I've gotten to a press conference, Andy. I feel like I'm in a press conference after gang now from not the agency standpoint, but to our prospects to get them to start thinking about things differently as well. And once we begin to do that, Andy, we've had success in people saying, wow, we just didn't know we could do it this way because everybody told us that it was this way. And you said something earlier as well. I won't work with a prospect if I feel like, hey, man, I'm excited. And I got Marcus here. Marcus is a Ravens fan, so he don't know any better, man. So that's perfect.

As well as we'll wrap. You're not a celebrity. You're just a guy doing your job. So I appreciate it, man.

That's it. I appreciate you.

All right, guys.

All right. Thank you. We won't be on the same page. So I've gotten to that point in my business where I walk away from the business because it's going to be a struggle that we got. If I'm talking to you and you're still talking to your other broker and they're telling you something different than what I'm telling you, and we're going back and forth, I don't want to be bothered with that. I'm out. You know what I mean? For that reason, I'm out. So when I look at that, that change in thought, that got us to a space where now, again, the numbers and the confidence level that you go, that, you know, you can go into a space where you can talk the language in that area where it makes sense at 9,000, that they said, why wouldn't we do this?

Here's what I want everybody to hear, and I'm going to wrap it up, bring it home before we go to Q and A. That was awesome. Because I want everybody to hear this message. Message. The more you try to do, the more you try to sell, the less expansive your geography. The more you try to specialize, the more narrow you go with what you do, the more expansive your market will be. The people who have decided to become a specialist, their market now is expanded, in some cases nationwide. The agencies that are trying to still sell everything, because we can help everybody, are the ones whose market is the most narrow. Yep. I'll wrap by saying this, guys. Why did we want to talk about this today? Because I get a lot of agency owners who look to hire my firm, and one of the questions we get a lot is, well, what's the roi? And I know when they ask that what they're wanting to know how much sales are you going to help us generate? And I always answer the question the same way, say, well, let me ask you this, what's the ROI on a team of sales producers who fricking love what they do? Because I'll tell you, competing with a team of producers who fricking love what they do is a dangerous team. I don't want to compete with.

So why we wanted to do this today guys, because whether you're a solopreneur right now and you might be hiring your first producer or you manage a team today, what we wanted to talk about is number one, you have to adapt how you train them. The best thing you can do right now from a training perspective is build prospecting strategies around the producers personalities. There is not one way to do things and it's not the way you did it 30 years ago. Have a marketing process, have a sales process, build them around the producer's personality and they will show up every day consistently. Number two, as a leader, you have to meet the producers where they're at. To Kareem's point, you got to know their traits. Not every producer is the same. Not everybody's going to be like Gerald. So you have to have that diversity in how you're training your producers because they, they come in with different traits. And number three, it is building a brand today. Whether you're an agency, you have a brand, but you also have a team of producers who each have a brand. And the more narrow you go as far as what you do and how you do it, it the more expansive your network's going to be, your market's going to be and you will have a team, a dangerous team of producers who freaking love what they do and are damn good at what they do.

The best agencies I know today don't try to do everything. They become known for one thing and they become the best at it. Think about how your agency, your firm can become the same way. So with that being said, I'm going to open up the floor. Kareem, for Q and A. I don't see any questions. Maybe we have one right now. Now there's only one thing.

There's one thing in the chat.

This simply said, yeah, right now we.

Have somebody who told you we have to address that.

Somebody who told you that they're a Chiefs fan as well. But guys, this is your, that's me here. Whether you want to unmute yourself and ask, you want to fire it in the chat box if you have any questions? Right now, this is your opportunity to fire a Matt, Kareem or myself. So I'm going to open the floor. Anybody have any questions?

Questions?

Gerald Scruggs here. I know I came in late, I was having problem getting on and I had another phone call, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, good morning, Kareem. Good morning, Andy. Pleasure meeting you. And everyone else there, I thought my ears were burning. Kareem was over there talking about me, but just to confirm, and I don't know what he said, but I' ma just echo you guys to confirm. Some of you talk about diversity of thought. When I started in the business, what do we go 24 years ago now, Kareem, 23, 24. I was told nobody ever. All the agents said because we had the Detroit public Schools, you can't make money in the summer school. I mean in the schools, because nobody's working. Kareem said, girl, the schools are still open. The custodians and the teacher engineers are there. So I went to all 380something schools in the summertime, and people were wondering, how is he writing all this premium? I got accused of stealing people's clients. I was, you know, again, at that time, Andy, I was new to the insurance industry. I was intelligently ignorant. I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know you weren't supposed to be sitting. So I was making money every day. But again, diversity of thought. And then when school started back, I took what Kareem introduced me to, luncheon theory, where we would have a little luncheon. Now, Kareem, I gotta talk about you on this. My first view of a luncheon was a 2 liter pop. They went to Ponderosa, got a bag of 35 wings, they sat it on the table. This is the luncheon. I'm like, what the hell is that? Now, my mother used to own a restaurant. So I turned around and said, okay, now we're gonna get chicken trays, sandwich trays, vegetable, fruit. We have three different types of beverages, put flowers on the table. All of a sudden I'm getting 40, 50 teachers coming here. I'm getting appointments with just about everybody. And I spent the whole week, you know, and I'm writing 15, 20,000 every week. You know, I thought that was how everybody should do it. But again, I was crazy. So again, the Kareem's thing of diversity of thought, it definitely works. And even now, taking a business, I used to thought it was a big deal, chasing teachers up and down the hall. You know, we Writing disability. We writing accident.

La la la la.

Man, we thought we were in heaven now. Diversifying my agency. God bless the teams. I appreciate you guys who are leaders, but I don't want to do that anymore because I got tired of trying to make grown folks go to work. Okay. So I have a solo agency now. And I go from talking to teachers to now I'm talking organizations with six figures of association members and a couple of associations who have millions of people in their organization who I'm getting ready to write up. We're talking about entire state organizations.

Let me say this. In that regard, what Gerald said back to agency owners when he did that, I had to be open to the fact that there's a different way of doing it, right? And so I embraced it. And so that's part of having other folks around is that you can embrace that and you have a different look. So I didn't shut it down and say, hey, we don't do it that way. We put a 2 liter pop on the table and we put wings. No, I embrace that. And we took that model and we use that model from there on out. The other thing that I would say that you've got to know your trait. I said that that was part of you got to know your self trait. For him to make the acknowledgement that hey, I don't want to run an agency, I want to be a solopreneur and that's my deal. That's understanding your own strengths. And I think that many people try to figure out, I'm going to do something different. If that's the best model for you, stick in that model and make sure that you're the best in that respective model because you're still a producer as well as being an agency owner. But if you know that you're not going to train anybody else, you know that you're not. Because it's not gonna just happen. You gotta be engaged with those folks and get in the movie. Andy. So I'll turn it back to you, Andy.

I got one. We do have time for one question here. Eric asked for new agency owner Kareem. When would you recommend making the first new producer hire? I have a thought on that. I'll let you go first.

So. So for me in looking at the first producer hire, but first of all be looking at how profitable I am as a business on the front end, right? Because it's two, it's two thoughts. Is this producer hire going to be commission only or is this producer hire going to be somebody that you're going to have to give some money to along the way. So. So I have two schools of thought with that. One would be the financial side of it. Right. But the second side of it would be as soon as I come across somebody that looks like they're able to help me expand the business and expand the business in a way that I have not been able to do it, they add to what we're doing. I'm going to hire them in a minute. They can understand the vision. I'm going to hire them sooner rather than later. So, Eddie, I'll let you respond to what your thoughts.

Yeah. And by the way, guys, if any of this resonates and you want to have a deeper conversation about this, I think I'm probably connected with every single one of you on LinkedIn. So go there, shoot me a message. I'm happy. We're happy to have a deeper conversation on this. On the subjects we talked about today. This is what my company does just for full transparency. But my answer to that is this, Kareem, I.