How To Successfully Transition In Your Insurance Career | with Stephen Snyder

How can you think strategically a little bit more on the benefit programs? I think that's the biggest thing is how are you? Do you feel like you're just doing the same rinse and repeat, or you feel like you're strategically helping a company to solve the challenges?

Steven Snyder, welcome to the show, my friend.

Thanks for having me on, man.

Well, let's start here for the people listening in who don't know who Steven Snyder is. Take a second and introduce yourself.

All right, well, I'm Steven Snyder, live here in dfw, but I've been here about four years. My wife and I moved here from Nashville. I've done the whole kind of move all across the country search. Dad was in the military. Spent 25 years in the military there. Then he retired at Fort Knox in Kentucky. Played college baseball in Georgia.

Better talk about that.

All right. Baseball season's right here, so we'll have plenty to talk about, I'm sure. But now a father to two little girls, so that's a whole new world for me. Didn't grow up around girls. So this is going to be interesting. So we'll have to have another chat in, like, 10 years to figure out what that's going to look like when they.

When they go. When they're turning 10, going on 21. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my first question. I didn't. I knew your day. I was a military father, and he finished his career at Fort Knox. You said, is there gold there?

We have no idea. I think so. When they. I've heard people talking about this. Of course, you know, they need to do an audit of it. That's gonna be a whole different conversation.

I heard they haven't done an audit on Fort Knox in, like, 50 years.

Audit. I don't know, but I know they opened it up before we had moved there. I moved there, like, 94, 95. And I think in the late 80s, they had opened it up to local press. There is some video of that actually existing. Okay. No, they didn't go through and count every single bar.

Yeah.

Anything like that. But, but, but I know that they've.

Opened it up, but where is Fort Knox in Kentucky?

It is right down I65 or a little off of it south of Louisville. So it's basically the center of the state.

Okay. Would I have gone past it? Because I did go from Louisville to Lexington a couple of years ago. Would I have gone right past Fort Knoxville?

Okay, now you would have gone through Frank. Or around Frankfurt, which is the capital.

Well, which is also where a Lot of the bourbon is made, which we're going to talk about as well.

And the. The. The horse farms are. All the derby winners are from.

So when you were growing up, where would you have spent your formative years playing high school baseball?

Kentucky. We moved there whenever I was nine.

Okay.

So that's. That's still home to me. So obviously I'm on brand with my robot. Last night, Kentucky. Yeah. I fell asleep. Unfortunately, about 10 minutes left, I woke up and I was like, oh, well, I'm actually probably glad that I didn't stay after that one. I had a heart attack.

Did they have a big lead and give it up?

Yeah, they were up by five or six, like, 25 seconds left, lost it, and then one without.

So. So for those that don't know Kentucky, basketball is. Is. Is. Is a big deal if you live.

In Kentucky and you don't root for Kentucky unless you're in the heart of Louisville. I guess you could say you're probably.

Well said. I'll give them credit.

Go.

They're back. Whoever that coach is deserves possible coach of the year for what he's done.

It's all fans. I think, you know, this is short for fanatic, of course, but I think just having that rivalry back is a. Is a good.

Yes.

You know, it's. It's. It's more fun. Obviously, I don't ever want to see him win, but it's. It does make it more fun when both teams are good.

And I think there's just something to be said in sports when certain blue bloods are good, it just makes the sport better.

Yeah.

Whether that's Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, Louisville, and basketball, you know, when they're good, it just makes the whole sport.

Yeah. Especially I say those four in Kansas.

Even though Kansas is struggling this year.

Yeah. I think it's just because a lot of those, they've been. They've been good all the way through. They haven't just had peaks and valleys. They've been good all the way through with maybe a. Or maybe a valley here, there, but have found their way back up.

So you played college ball at Mercer in Georgia. Right. Remind me, is. Am I correct in saying did you go the juco route first?

Yeah.

Out of high school, where did you go play Juco?

I went to Middle Georgia college.

Okay.

You know, kind of in the center, obviously, Middle Georgia, but for those familiar with Georgia is in between I16 and I75, which is about 45 minutes south of Macon, which is where Mercer is.

Okay. Okay. And so he Spent two years there.

Yep.

And then went and played at Mercer.

Yep. And played at Mercer.

What position?

I was outfield left in left and right field.

What was that like going from as an at? I like this love this journey from an athlete. Number one. Was there a moment where you realized I think I have what it takes to play college baseball?

Yeah, I guess there's one specific time, but I just being consistent over time and I know one summer I batted like 500, so I think that had maybe a little something to do with it. But there was never anybody that I played against specifically that I got a hit off of or anything like that during like before senior year that I was like, oh dang, I can definitely do this. But might have been, you know, being on the varsity team as a freshman when our team was always top five in the state and we're talking in Kentucky, they still play single class outside.

Oh, wow.

So you're talking about we're a school of 700 kids. Yeah. And we're still playing against the Louisville and the Lexington schools. And those Louisville. Some of the Louisville schools have all boys and we are still beating them down. Wow. So, you know, said a little something and we had the Gatorade player of the year my, my senior year. Excuse me, my freshman year and he was a senior.

Okay. What was your experience? Because juco baseball has changed a little bit over the years. Especially now with the whole portal and nil money. I think with the portal what it's done is I've, I talked to plenty of fathers who have sons playing college ball. You have a lot more kids going the juco route now versus going right to a four year college because of the transfer portal. A lot of the big name schools aren't recruiting as heavily anymore because they, they're getting their players from the transfer portal now. So a lot of kids are going the juco route first to get seen by the bigger name program versus trying to do it out of high school. Here's what I remember about juco ball though. Just because it wasn't Division 1, there was some damn good talent in juco ball. So when you made the transition from juco to Mercer, did you see much of a difference? Because I gotta believe at juco you were playing some competitive baseball.

Our juco team, I'll take my freshman year team against any team I've ever played with. I think out of the 21 guys, 13 of them play professional at some point.

And there were an unlimited number of games. Right. You guys, I don't think you had a game limit. Did you and Juco?

I don't know if we had a game limit or not. We had a fall schedule and a spring schedule. But it's interesting you say that though because they did have. Whenever I was going, Juco was for a lot of the draft and follow people, kids like me who might have maybe not had the offers they wanted out of high school. So I gave you an opportunity to keep playing. But then I think it transitioned. Two people were going to four year schools because they had better facilities, better training and then I guess it's maybe switched back with Nil and Portal and all that stuff. Cause when I was there I pulled my hamstring my freshman year, might have even torn it. But it was. I'm trying to play, I gotta keep going. But we didn't have a training staff.

Yeah.

So I'm just fighting through it as best way you can in Cochrane, Georgia. So I guess you just ate a bunch of fried chicken and drank sweet tea which was the way to get through it. But there was no other way for me to rehab. There was no trainers, anything. Cause it was just. He's had to keep fighting through.

Made it worse. So I'd said that too. That advocate of people going to a four year because you had a training staff.

Yeah, that's true.

So I think it made me come back. But yeah, that team, I mean I think that's when I realized that there are a lot of good players and you had all kinds of personalities. Guys that knew that they were only going to play professionally, that they went because they were trying to leverage their draft stock. Others, it was a way for them to get to the next level. And others they just didn't qualify academically and couldn't play NCAA ball. Yeah. And then others were just, you know, they were just there trying to make the team and figure out what the next step for them was going to be.

So you make the jump to Mercer. What conference was that back then?

Back then it was the Atlantic Sun Conference. So still are they still in the Southern Conference now? So I guess if you're equating it back to you know the NCAA basketball tournament back then you would have been a like a 14, 15 seed. 14. I guess whenever they beat Duke.

That's right, they beat Duke.

I forgot about that now. You know you would be like, you could be like a 10, 11 seed in the so called. That's like Davidson, like Steph Curry.

Yeah.

One thing, you know, it's interesting so that we could, we could call that Mid major division. Right. We were also mid major up in Wisconsin.

Baseball was probably low. Was probably mid major. Basketball was. Was low major.

The thing I love about college baseball, though, and I do think it's different than other college sports, is, number one, a kid can get drafted from any school, any division.

Yep.

Mid major baseball in the south is good baseball. And I'm sure you experience that. I'd be curious because you were in the south, you also probably played some top level D1. Were there any guys you remember playing back then where you're like, because I experienced this, going to pro ball, there were guys like, for example, on the pitcher's mound, you couldn't really tell the difference between a guy throwing 88 and 93. And then you get the kid coming up throwing 8 98, and you're like, Whoa. Or the kid taking BP where you're like, you can't teach that. Were there any guys you played against at Mercer? You're like, wow.

Yeah, there were two. Well, one was in summer ball before going into college was David Price. I played against David Price. Proud to say I went one for three against him.

But he ended up winning a Cy Young, I believe, with the Rays.

I believe so. Yeah. I'm not. I know he won Ace I. Young. Not sure with. With who.

Yeah.

But he also hit a home run that probably still hasn't landed off of me. He was actually a really good hitter, or at least he was on that pitch. I don't know. But the other one was Buster Posey.

Oh, yeah. At Florida State.

At Florida State. And he was playing shortstop when I was at Florida State. I don't think he converted to catcher until. I think maybe until pro ball.

Yep.

But he was one of those guys that you saw me like, and he was a freshman. Who is this kid? He was really, really good, but obviously don't know a ton about them. There are other guys that throughout the years, you figured out that I played against them. Because in juco, you know, there's no. There's no notoriety.

Yeah.

There's a guy I think those names, I think was Lorenzo Kane. He played for the Royals Series. He played for the Brewers.

Yeah.

Okay. They mentioned him and said his name and said he was from Florida, somewhere in Florida, but went to Tallahassee Community College. I'm like, okay, he's about my age. Looked him up and go, wow. Be damn. I played against him too. So. But David Price and. And Buster Posey.

Yeah. I remember hearing the story about Posey. I was just reading a list, not that long ago about the best college baseball players ever. And they were ranking. These were I think editors, journalists that were kind of given their opinions or maybe former college coaches. Yeah, it was former college coaches and one of them spoke up and said hands down, Buster Posey. They said the fact that he was, he probably would have been an all American shortstop. Move him to catcher and he became an all American catcher. And they said if he would have pitched he would have been an all American pitcher.

Yeah, I'm sure. I mean guys like that are just freaks. I mean yes, as you played pro ball, so you see it, there are just some guys that are just way better, they just had more talent than everybody.

The God given things where you're like you can't teach that.

You can't teach some of that stuff.

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Nope, I did not. I was, I'm one of the 99% that went pro in something other than sports. So.

So how did you find yourself? Obviously you're in the insurance industry now. How did you find yourself in the insurance industry? Because it typically finds us.

Yeah, like most it was on accident, you know, graduating in 2008. That was the great Recession. So there were. I had three job opportunities at that point. It was to Northwestern Mutual, Aflac and to AT&T. Yellow Book.

Okay.

Nathaniel probably doesn't even know what Yellow Book is. You know what Yellow Book is? No. So. So they're just disproved.

I had a friend growing up who actually did very well as a yellow paid.

Yeah, I'm sure. But I used to tell that joke all the time whenever I would interview people. So I joined on with Aflac. We do some career recruiting and people would always ask well tell me your story. And that would be one of the things. And I would joke and say, how many of you even know what a yellow book is? And so clearly, clearly the image of.

Two fingers of a person walking, too. Is that the logo that was on you?

I don't think I ever knew what it was, but yeah, that's what I think it was.

Two fingers, both being a person walking. Yeah.

So clearly I picked up, you know, picked a good profession by not getting into yellow book sales. People don't even know what it is anymore.

Isn't it amazing, though, when you think of the yellow pages? That was back when it made sense to name your business Triple A Plumbing because you showed up first. That was. That was marketing back.

Oh, yeah, that was. I didn't think about that.

Okay, so you choose Aflac.

You go into the voluntary business space, and then how many years did you spend in VB before you made the transition over to the employee benefits world?

I spent 14 years. Oh, wow.

I didn't know that.

Okay, So I spent 12 years with Aflac, two years with an enrollment firm. And even with Aflac, that was pre ACA also. So before even a lot of the competition on the VB side was getting into it. So a lot of, like, what you see now from these ancillary carriers that are doing VB or worksite products were not in the market for plans then. It was. It was a market solely dominated by Aflac. Okay.

What made you ultimately say, all right, it's time to make the jump? It's interesting because I've coached and I know a lot of people in this industry that have gone from being Aflac or colonial and then have made the jump to becoming an employee benefit consultant. What made you finally say, all right, I want to take the leap?

I think it was probably one of those. It was a long time coming.

Okay.

I'd always worked with brokers.

Yep.

So you learn a lot of the knowledge and of course, you're trying to stay top of mind to the brokers by. Outside of some of the products. So I'd always be learning the industry of what was staying, staying hot. So I think it was one of those. I'd been recruited by brokers because I'd always told everyone that if you're worth a damn with working with a broker, if they don't try to hire you, then they probably really didn't very much like you or they didn't really want to do business with you because there were always someone that was trying to hire me.

Yeah.

So. But I think I might have been a little scared because obviously still early on with ACA to do it, and then finally just made the leap. Whenever we moved here to dfw, I worked in the VB a little bit. Then I was. But I really wasn't feeling it. And I was like, all right, let me just, let me, let me give this a shot. I'm talking to a lot of brokers. I feel like I'm bringing them more value about things that they're not aware of or just don't care about talking about anymore. So I was like, well, if they're not talking about it, why don't I talk about it?

Yeah, I'm curious. You don't have to admit this, but one thing I have often heard from people who've made the voluntary leap, voluntarily leap from VB to EB is, you know, I was watching these brokers make all this money and I'm like, you're not actually really doing that much. If you can do it, I can do it.

I mean, of course there's a little bit of that, but I think that's the whole industry as a whole. Because a buddy of mine been selling Aflac when I started about seven or eight years, I was like, well, hell if he can, so can I. But it was also just like, you know, I feel like I've got this insurance thing done. Like with Aflac. As much as we were trying to solve a problem, at the end of the day it was just a product and there were 100 other products or carriers that were doing the exact. Well.

And I think this is a good conversation to have because there's probably a lot of VB reps out there or just people who represent a solution, industry solution. They're not an advisor, not an employee benefits advisor that are looking to make that jump. What was the biggest shift for you going from primarily selling voluntary benefits to now you can offer it all.

Having a. Having a money conversation.

Okay.

When you're with Aflac, you're mostly dealing with an office manager and HR professional. And he never dealt with CEO or cfo. If he did, it was mostly at, you know, at post enrollment or something like that, where they may be, oh, hey. Oh, you're the, you're the iFlight guy.

Yep.

And that was it.

Okay.

You know, because these kinds of products were not costing a business anything to offer. But now you're shifting it to having, okay, well, now we got a rate increase. Now you got to talk about money, got to talk about finances. So you had to really increase your business acumen. But also too, that HR wasn't the Sole decision maker with Aflac. It might have been that they were. Maybe they had to go check in with the CEO or cfo. Hey, I think this is a good idea. We should do that. Do you, do you want to do it? Okay, sure, go do it. But now there's multi level decision making across the board. Like HR may love an idea, but it may be more financial. So the CFO needs to get themselves involved.

So how did you have to. Was there anything you had to do to get better when it came to having a financial conversation that allowed you to move over and have some success?

One get over it. I had to go because obviously when you're not used to having it, it's a little scary to have it. But also to had to have a learning experience of not winning a group that I probably should have won that you might have checked eight out of nine boxes.

Yeah.

But HR was not really the decision maker in this particular case. So I was like, okay, well, I need to figure out how to level up some my business acumen and understanding what a P and L was.

That's what I want. I actually wanted to go a little deeper because people might hear it. Well, what do you mean, Stephen? Financial conversation. I understand numbers. I sell rates, I sell insurance. They come with plans and numbers. You're talking more about. No, this is having a business conversation with the profit and loss statement in front of a cfo. Is that where you felt like you had to make the biggest transition?

I didn't even know what a piano was.

Yeah.

And there's probably a lot that don't like learning the terminology. What's cash flow, what's. What's a P and L, What's a, what's a balance sheet? Some of them may be similar, but I had no clue what any of that stuff was and I never had to talk about it. And outside of probably my accounting 101 and 201 classes in college, I never talked about it.

That's a really good point. You know, I never sold voluntary specifically, but you're right, you probably can win a lot of business in that world working with the hr. I hate to say it's more of a product tied to the payroll. In a way it is. But now all of a sudden you're selling medical and a bunch of other stuff that has to have the stamp of approval from a CFO or CEO. You're talking much different language there.

Oh yeah, because the, the VB products, those can be employee pushed. In reality, like we. Sometimes we would leverage a situation where we had, we would go prospect a business and five employees be like, hey, why can't we do this? So then we would call back and get the HR on the phone or whatever. Like, hey, five employees just came up to us and said they actually want to enroll in this now. And so then that would be a way to be able to get it in because like, oh, okay, I just got the payroll deduct it. I mean, yeah, just as easy as payroll deducting. But sometimes those are different, entirely different conversations than what you might have with, with the C suite.

So one, elevate the financial conversation. Number two, what else did you have to do? What were any other shifts you had to make? Going from the world of offering voluntary to offerings, benefit medical, which could be fully insured, self funded, level funded captives, you name it.

Yeah. Thinking more strategically and looking at a business from having to really understand their business and what they're trying to accomplish. And we'd always talk, oh, well, you're trying to attract, entertain employees and these products help that. But how do they tie back together from their overall objectives, from how the manufacturer worker who's in the back has a different need than maybe the electrical engineer in the front work at the same business, but they have different needs. So you're trying to, you're trying to tie things together versus basically just product pushing.

That's a really good point. So if I'm listening, I'm at aflac, I'm at Colonial right now. I'm thinking about making a leap. You, number one, start studying a P and L. Yeah. Understand why all the benefits impact the P and L. Because you're going to have those conversations with the cfo. Number two, remember, this is not just a product you can push. You actually have to push a strategy that that organization's going to buy into. That's important. And I would also say to your point, you can't just sell this to the HR and think your job's done.

Yep.

Because now you're going to be working in a world where, let's be honest, in some cases the HR does not have the final decision making.

No.

Yeah, that's important.

Yeah. But I think a lot of it too. We. Did you see a lot of people within who are doing a lot of creative things within the industry. They started within the VB industry.

Yep.

Because we learned it inside out and we recognize first. Well, this statistic is still true today that I used to always present the number one reason for bankruptcy in America today is what?

Medical debt.

Yeah. So people Always go, oh, well, the co payments. No, it was all the other things. It was mortgage, daycare, cell phone bill, all the everyday expenses was really how we did it. But it was interesting to learn it that way. And people going, well, what? Well, why is that? Well, let's tie it back to this. You see guys or gals that are doing a lot of these creative things out there. All. Many of them are tied back to Aflac at some point.

Yeah, I was going to ask you, I'd be. I'd love your opinion on this because I think of the. The numerous people I know that were Aflac now on the employee benefits, and a lot of them have gone on to have a lot of success.

What do you think it is? Is it. Is it the way you had to sell at Aflac? You know, when you look back now and all the years you spent there, what influence has done that type of selling had on what you're doing today?

I think you had to be much more of a storyteller.

Okay.

Because everyone, our biggest objection that we'd always get is we already have insurance or we already have good insurance. Well, whatever you define that to be. And then I could think of numerous stories of people that worked for state governments or county governments, whatever, you know, to be the more rich benefit. Yet they were the ones who were filing bankruptcy because they had, you know, a cancer claim and they ended up paying, you know, whatever carrier paid them $30,000 to help save their home, stuff like that. There was just. You had to sell some of these examples of how it still worked on top of what health insurance is paying for.

Well, and on top of that, would you say when you were at Aflac, the other issue you run into is commoditization?

Yeah.

Oh, we already have ev.

Yeah.

And they're not even. Sometimes, let's be honest, they could care less who the carrier is. Right. It's colonial. It's trans America. It is. Whatever. You probably had to find a way to stand out. I mean, you couldn't just come in and say, well, we're just another carrier providing voluntary benefits. So it had to be. Having to have a brand in a way probably was even more important. Because if the carrier is less important, it's going to come down to the man or the woman I'm working with.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. What advice? So let me ask, you know, I'm curious, what advice would you give that person who might be sitting on that fence right now thinking about making leap? You've been on the BB side for A house. How long?

About two years ago.

Okay, so you're still fairly new.

So fairly new.

What would you, what advice would you give that person who's sitting where you were two years ago?

Yeah, really pay attention to what is it you want long term? Are you want to continue to be self employed, which is what most of them were, and. Or do you want to be able to use your brain a little bit more? Not the same that you didn't before. Not trying to downgrade anybody. I'll be listening that. But is how can you think strategically a little bit more on the benefit programs? I think that's the biggest thing is how are you, do you feel like you're just doing the same rinse and repeat or you feel like you're strategically helping a company to solve the challenges?

Other than what we just talked about, what would you say are some of the biggest lessons you've learned then for the last two years you've been in the employee benefit consultant role?

I think the biggest one is that it doesn't take as much wins to.

Actually have a more of a volume game at Aflac.

And I remember as a, from the last seven years I was leading teams and if you were not as a team, if you did not were not producing, say 30 to 50 clients, new clients every single year, you were not going to win. It was going to be a bad year where here I can have five wins and have a massive year or I could have one year and one win and blow it out. So it's remembering that because sometimes it was very transactional and now, you know, going and going. Okay, I only need to have four to five wins in order to make my number for this year or hit my goal for this year. But also still having to remember I still have to put in some of the activity in order to get there too.

Well, but you could also say, yeah, you need 30 to 50 to have a good year. Over on the VB side, probably a shorter sales cycle in some cases. Yeah, Typically here, yeah, I only need five. But as you know, it can be a longer sales cycle, especially as you're going upstream. Right. And so I think that's, that's really important for people to hear because it may sound a lot, sound enticing, say, wait, I only need five wins to have a good year. Yeah, it's, it's not. They don't come as quickly as they may have in the past.

And that was a learning experience too of the. Oh, I only need that. And so. Okay, so then you take The. You take your foot off the gas a little bit and maybe not put in as much effort as you should have, but then you look up later and you go, oh, wait, my pipeline's kind of empty.

Yeah.

So.

Well, let's. Let's have some fun with this conversation. You know, I love to get into what drives people and motivates people outside of the work world.

Let's start with your girl. Dad.

Yeah. Ages one. Oldest will be three in April, and then the youngest is five months.

You just put out a post as of this recording. The. The day of. Or was it yesterday? Was it today?

The post was today.

Post was today that, you know, you got pooped on three times this week by your daughter. What's it been like being a. A new dad, but also a father of two daughters?

It's been. It's been fun. I mean, it's been interesting. You learn a lot. I've had great help with my wife, you know, from both a.

And she's in the healthcare.

Yeah.

World.

She is a pediatric nurse practitioner. Okay. So that's been helpful. She's trained.

Yeah. You got one in the house, so it helps.

But at the same time, you know, she's still a mom too, and, you know, all those things take place. So I had to learn a lot, especially on the fly because her first year, our oldest first year of life, my wife was still working in the icu. Oh, wow. Okay. And we're short staffed.

Yeah.

So she was working long hours at the hospital. So who was not there for me to lean on?

So I grew up fast as a father, fast.

And having to figure out how to do some of this stuff like change diapers and things like that, because I'd never changed one until I had a.

Did it make you grow up fast too, though, now that you have this new responsibility?

The second one for sure did. And the second one, because I'm on more responsibility with where we live, it's easier for me to be able to do both drop off and pick up for daycare. Got it. So I have to figure out what I can say yes and no to. Whereas before, my wife had a fairly full, flexible schedule. It was longer hours, but she might work, say, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and there might be a networking happy hour on Thursday that I could still attend. So I'm having. So growing up and figuring out what do I say no to a lot of the times or. One of the advices that I got early on for the first child was, doesn't matter how late you stay up, that kid's still getting up at 6. So. Especially during college football season when you had the Pac 12 after dark, you go I'll just have one more bourbon and then one more and the next thing you know it's 2 o' clock in the morning.

Yes.

And you're still watching Cal and Stanford again, I could not care less.

Why we don't know but still watching.

Cal and Stanford again, I could not.

Care less why we don't know. But yeah, because you want to, that's why. Because it's football and it's probably 52 to 48 the score. Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah.

So. So just stuff like that just make you. Yeah, you learn. You live and you learn. But so I'd say the second one probably helped me to grab the, you know, have to go up the fastest because now it's. Even though it was not hard going from one to two, it was harder to go from zero to one because it just shows.