Mark Koski - CEO, National Federation of State High School Assoc [Grand Slam Events Podcast]

All right, welcome back. This is the event plan or event organizers podcast. I am with Mark Koski, CEO of nfhs. That's the National Federation of State High School Associations. Mark, welcome aboard.

Thanks Andy, appreciate the time today and thanks for giving us a few minutes on your great podcast.

Absolutely, man, let's just get right to it. Nfhs, what is it? Where are you guys located and what are you guys up to?

Yeah, you know, we actually, we get asked that question quite a bit in terms of, you know, who is the NFHS and what's your role and so on. But the NFHS is the governing body for high school sports and activities throughout the country. We have 51 member state associations. And so how that works is that of course all 50 states plus DC we have a state athletic or activities association office. So looking at. In Colorado to Colorado High School Activities association chassis is kind of their name or looking CIF in California, the California Interscholastic Federation. So we have 51 member state associations that really govern the rules in which we sit at a national level. But the neat thing about that is that you start breaking all the way from the state level down to the high school level, where we have 19,500 high schools fall under our direction or under our realm. But most Importantly, we have 12 million student participants that we work for each and every day. High school student participants that are participating not only the traditional sports that we all know, but speech and debate, music, drama, band, anything within the after school activity is, is what we, what we're all about and how we promote. So that's who the NFHS is. National Federation of State High School Associations.

That's interesting. And because I actually, I just learned something new. I thought you guys were specifically tied to sports, but you guys are beyond just athletics.

Definitely. Yeah. You know, I say this all the time. It's any after school activity within the school setting. So you know all those crazy things you and I used to do after school? No, we don't want to promote that stuff. We want to promote the good things that are happening after school, but or within the school setting. So we work with all the coaches and you know, all those drama directors, but of course all the sport coaches and so on. But there's about a million and a half of those out there as well. And so as we create policy and direction, give them some ideas of ultimately how to be a better coach for these, these great students that hopefully are lifelong positive citizens and our leaders out there.

So bring up, you bring up a Great point. So just because you are a high school that has after sports or after school activities doesn't necessarily mean you are an NFHS member.

Right? Exactly. Yeah. So. So there are some states, I would say this, of the 19,500 high schools, okay. There's actually 23,000 high schools nationally. So you're looking at another, what, 3,500 schools that are not members of us. Those 3,500 schools might be new charter schools that popped up so they wouldn't have, like, athletic programs or activity programs, maybe schools just getting off the ground and running. But pretty much every school that competes for a state championship event would be a member of the nfhs.

So let's get to the obvious topic here. We're having this conversation on May 21st. We're in the middle still in the middle of this coronavirus pandemic. You're the governing body of high school activities sitting here in Indianapolis, Indiana. But rules and regulations are all different, state by state. How difficult has that been, trying to be the governing body of all these associations when there's different rules applying based on where you're located?

No question. Andy, you and I were talking a little bit before this about, you know, how difficult it has been, you know, from the national perspective to be able to work with all these individual states and now cities and so on. But, and you said it best. There's definitely, there's no playbook on what's happening right now at all. But, you know, if you look at a couple months ago, you know, things were being set from the national level, from the president, and of course, you know, what was policy then? Of course we would, you know, we go down to all states, well, then eventually turned it over to governors and to handle. Now it's been turned over to local mayors to handle. So, you know, within a state, you might have, you know, four different, you know, start times or, you know, the city is going to open back up based upon, you know, what's happening for that particular city itself. And so it. That has been just really, really difficult for us to be able to try to wrap our hands around and again, provide direction because we, of course, never can supersede, you know, government, you know, and so, you know, as one city or one state has a policy that the one next to it has something totally different. And sometimes it can be, you know, six, eight weeks off. And so the concern is, you know, when we get back to sports and activities, you know, starting in the fall, starting in August is, you know, how is that going to really play because, you know, a lot of schedules have been set, you know, look at, you know, fall sports and those schedules have been set. And sometimes, you know, again, you know, they're not only playing, you know, folks in their city, they're playing folks throughout the state. And so how is that going to change? But we sure are hoping and praying that over the next four weeks more clarity is going to help us so that we can get these games and these events kicked off in August.

Well, and you bring up a really good point, I think, about college athletics right now. And you see what's happening in the football landscape where California is really cracking down and now saying USC is not going to be. Schools like USC aren't going to be able to travel. They're going to cancel the game with Alabama. And so you've got again, state by state, region by region, these decisions being made. And I know you guys are directly tied in our conversation. You said you're directly tied to the NCAA literally by a skywalk from one building to the next. You know, you said August to get activities back and going again. What is the outlook that you guys are seeing right now? You guys pretty hopeful that there's sports activities and after school activities are going to pick back up again?

Very much so. Nfhs we just produced Return to Play guidelines almost a week ago to offer state associations some suggestions on what they really need to be cognizant of as students are getting back to the gyms and you know, getting back to the fields to start playing. It's a little different sport by sport, you know, being that, you know, some, some sports that, you know, hey, you are.

It'S just, you know, you tackle football, you know, a lot different than volleyball or cross country, you know. And so, so we have some guidelines for states to consider. I hate to use that term consider, because sometimes at the national you would hope that we would be able to give them kind of concrete information or concrete recommendations that they can use. But again, we go back to kind of these local governments and how that's putting curve balls on that. But we are very optimistic that the fall will kick off, so to speak, and those students on those cross country courses can, can run those races and compete and most importantly, learn.

Such a huge part of high school. Those coaches are teaching them not only how to be a great cross country runner, but ultimately how to be a future leader and lifelong cause of citizen, which is our goal.

I love how you just said that because it is so important with athletics. I was fortunate to play A little professional baseball in my past, but the percentage of athletes that actually move on from high school to college is small. And then from college onto the pro level is even smaller. Getting them prepared to be leaders in the business, in society, is as important, if not more important than what their future athletic endeavors might look like. I want to ask you a question. I didn't prepare you for this one, but I'm really curious about your thoughts. You have kids and.

So many of the kids in this generation growing up literally have had everything organized for them, right? These after school activities have always been there. And literally in a moment, in one rule, in one law strike that changed, there were no more organized activities. Are you seeing an impact emotionally, mentally on high school kids, young kids today right now because of that?

No question. Yeah. In terms of, you know, as you said, they've been, you know, here's the day, it's a different era now than it was when, you know, we were playing where they were, they were spoon fed, everything is organized for them, ready to go. And then all of a sudden, boom, you know, this thing hits and they're looking around, what do we do? You know, so schools, you know, start scrambling, you know, to do online learning and how that's actually going to play. And again, you know, kids that are been a part of that, you know, they were in their athletic season, boom, it stopped abruptly. They're used to jumping on that school bus or getting in that school day and everything's all planned and structured for them. Now all of a sudden it's like, okay, well dad, what do we do? It's day one of quarantine. What do I do? I've got three months left in this thing. And so, you know, what's been, yeah, there's never been sensors. Not good thing about this thing. But what I see more is, you know, I live in Carmel, Indiana, north side of Indianapolis. And I see more families outside walking than ever before, you know, in terms of just tossing the ball and getting outside and doing things. I see kids outside in their yards playing and enjoying, you know, enjoying life a little bit, you know, and so there's something to be said about, hey, you know, there's this thing, you know, put out there to slow us all down, you know, and put perspective a little bit on what, you know, what we all are doing. Kids are outside making up games before games are made up for them, you know, in terms of giving to them over this kind of era. And so, you know, this instant gratification society. I think that these, these Students are in more so now than ever. You know, has. Has really had to, you know, put them, put them back. And not, not in a bad way. I mean, of course, you know, this whole situation, it's not positive. However, it's like, hey, let's try to find some positive things that ultimately will make these students and all of us stronger long term.

Yeah, no, you bring up. It's such a good point. I was having a conversation with my dad a few weeks ago, and he's a long time. He was a longtime baseball coach in the town. I grew up in Wisconsin. And he was, you know, feeling bad. You know, he was down for his grandson, my nephew, who's a freshman in high school going into, about to start the baseball season, it just got canceled. And I said, dad, listen, you know, we might actually have the greatest generation of kids come out of this because they now have to organize their fun again.

Great point, great point.

Right?

It's not given to them.

They actually have to create it again. And that's something you and I probably remember growing up with. Hey, get outside. Go play if nothing was organized and.

Run around the block and if we're still going crazy, run four more times, you know, and so, yeah, I remember mom, mom and mom and dad saying that many, many a times. And I tell you what, you know, that was, that was great about our, our era. But I'd say what, you know, to see again, these kids outside in their yards that you generally wouldn't see because they, they're again, they're so programmed and so structured. They're on these fields and now all of a sudden, hey, again, they're. They're making, making up games with their, with their trucks and with sand and you know, all that, all that type of stuff, which isn't necessarily a bad thing either.

So let's, let's talk about the association itself. Nfhs, you're the governing body, but you're overseeing how many different associations, state by state, county by county, municipality by municipality? Given that, you know, you guys often you have in summer meetings, you have winter meetings where you're bringing everybody together, which has been taken off the table for the time being. What are you doing as an organization, as an association, to make sure you're able to still connect with everybody and maintain that constant stream of communication?

Yeah, Andy, that's a great question. So, yeah, typical association where, hey, we have this annual meeting every year, June 28 to July 2. This year, actually, we were slated to go to beautiful downtown Denver. Agency Denver. There we're slated to be there. And that's been an event that we've hosted literally for a hundred straight years. We just celebrated our centennial this last year. So we're coming into the 101st year. We're going to kick off the new, you know, 100 years and all excited. All of a sudden this thing has been, you know, kind of, kind of, you know, hit us in the back of the head, so to speak. And, and so we have to find a way again to create or keep our environment the same. Because I say, you know, some of these associations like ours, some of these folks been coming for 100 years, you know what I mean? Like, they've been like, this is what they know, you know, this is a fraternity. It's a. So that they all come together once a year. They know family, they, I mean they're part of each other's lives. And so all of a sudden it's like we have, you know, been stopped. And so of course our folks are. What do we do? And so, you know, like most groups, you know, we're jumping on a ton of zoom calls and trying to keep, you know, the association together as much as possible. You know, I would say if that's, you know, another kind of positive thing that's happened from this is that our folks have had to learn technology in a heartbeat, you know, and they've had to get rid of their dial up and let's go to the, you know, go to the fiber, you know, but they, you know, some of the folks. But it's been something that, hey, now I think we're almost communicating better, you know, because we're forced to communicate differently. You know, we're, it's okay that, you know, see each other's, you know, backgrounds of their homes and their dogs running around in the back because that, it just humanizes us a little bit and puts it just a different element you know, behind people. That's a, that's not a bad thing either, you know, and sure, hey, we're looking forward to this time next year where, you know, we'll, we'll be in our, be in our next city, which next year we're in Orlando for that, for that event. But, but you know, to. It took us back a little bit to, to, you know, had make some changes, forced to make changes. I mean, I don't see us, you know, us going to virtual conferences long term, you know, I just don't. But I tell you what, I do see us as a group not jumping on as many airplanes because now I. We've. We've been taught to, you know, how do we. How do we communicate, you know, in a different way that's quicker. We're not going to the airport, not going through all the craziness of that, the cost, expense involved and so on. We do host another conference in the middle of December every year, the National Athletic Directors Conference, where all high school athletic directors come together. About 2,200 high school athletic directors throughout the country are there. And of course, that's the only. Still planned, being the middle of December, and that's going to be in Tampa this year, which we're really looking forward to. And I just think, hey, you know, our love and support for one another is just going to be a lot different now because again, we've had to come together through this, and we're all making it through it just fine. Learning a lot of, learning a lot of lessons.

It's about humans connecting with humans. That's been such a huge positive outcome with this. So I got three questions left. I want to ask you that. I think one. One of my goals, Mark, is to give you the chance. I always want to find ways to help you guys promote your events. Now, right now, events are kind of off the hook, but you said, hey, we're still very hopeful. Our Denver or our December event with the athletic directors is going to be on down in Tampa. We're going to be back at it next year in Orlando. For those that are part of NFHS or athletic directors out there that may not be attending those live events, what would you say is. Is a reason they should. What are they missing by not being there?

No question. You know, as much as, as much as it's great to, hey, you know, have, have conversation via Zoom and so on, but there's so much, I mean, in terms of it, just the personal connection, you know, sitting down and, and, and, you know, have it having a soda with someone or having, having some nachos with someone. I think that you can't replace that, you know, with, with what we're doing here. So it's great, you know, but, but, you know, having that, that social aspect and, and, you know, we asked our attendees all the time, you know, why do you attend the conference? Is it for the programming? Is it for the sessions? Hands down to networking? You know, they, they want to be able to have that networking that a lot of times, as we know, happens outside of a ballroom. So we love our general session speakers and those are amazing. Those get us all, all fired up, you know, but, you know, be able to sit down with, with the high school athletic director, ask he or she, you know, hey, how did you do this in your city, you know, or your town? And how did the parents react and how did you deal with this official, you know, complaint and so on? How did that actually, you know, pan out for you? But having that again, that social element where you can shake each other's hand, give each other a hug, you know, hopefully we can get back to that. Has been very special behind our events. Like I said, our summer convention. 100 years these folks have been come to this thing, you know, and, and so that is a long time. And obviously I'm joking when I say they've come for 100 years, but some of them have been there 50 years, you know, and they, they are, you know, eager to be able to see each other again and to see those, you know, pictures of those kids in their wallet and whether it be, you know, their animals or their kids or whatever else, I mean, they know their background, they know their story, and it just helps them, you know, behind, behind, you know, the social aspect of it you just nailed.

I mean, you can be a passive member in an association, but not by not attending the live events. You're missing out on the energy, you're missing out on the connection, the networking. And there's, there's nothing like human, live, human networking versus you. And I can network right now over this zoom chat, but at the same time, it's not like being together, having a cup of coffee, grabbing a soda or beer and having a conversation. 100% agree for another association out there, you're, you're sitting, sitting at the top of a very large association that oversees 51 different state districts. What advice would you give another association right now, Mark, who might be struggling with the current environment and the lack of being able to see each other live? Not sure what the future is going to look like. Any piece of advice you would give somebody in that position.

Yeah, you. Actually, we talk a lot about this. Our executive director, Dr. Kristen Niehoff, just a phenomenal leader within high school sports and activities. She's been amazing. And we're talking about this the other day in terms of, hey, you know, as we work with these individual state associations, you know, what can we, what can we do to help them as much as possible? And I think, you know, you know, all of us are. You're really just kind of coming together when it comes to this itself. And, you know, as we've had, you know, big situations in the past with, you know, 9, 11 and a few others out there that have kind of, you know, tried to separate us, but, you know, brought us back even a little stronger. And maybe that's, you know, kind of corny to say or whatever else, but I tell you what, I think if you rely upon your people long term and you get them involved and you make sure that, hey, it's just not one office making those decisions, but it takes a collective group as a whole that's deciding the next steps and give everybody kind of their input, so to speak. We do a lot of surveys and that type of stuff and go with that 2/3 majority vote, you know, with how we should move long term. I think, hey, you're getting your membership behind you, you're getting buy in from them, and you're just not setting a policy that comes from a staff of 40 like we have in Indianapolis, but it's from your full membership collectively as a whole, as much as you can.

Awesome. All right, my last question, my favorite one. You're in Indianapolis. I love that city. We talked about this before we jumped on here. If somebody's never been to Indy before, what's one reason they need to get there?

I tell you what, there's not only one, Andy, you kidding me? There's a hundred reasons. But I tell you, I had the opportunity to sit on the Visit Indy customer advisor board for a number of years and we talked, you know, hey, what, what makes Indy different? You know, of course, that's always, always the question, you know, that they all have, you know, we're known as the racing capital of the world. We kind of all know that Indy 500, that's great, or whatever else. But really, what I love about Indianapolis, you know, you've got that Midwest mindset, no question. It's just big enough to be able to host a lot of events. We, you know, hosted the super bowl, we hosted, you know, of course, Big Ten G championships and the Indy 500, which has 400,000 people come on race day, which is amazing. Every May, which we're going to miss that this year it's been up to August, which is a good thing. So we keep that, hopefully keep those events rolling. But again, I think the people here are unbelievable. The downtown is really, I mean, it's a very, very clean downtown, a walkable city. You can stay, you can go to any large sporting event that are all downtown compacted and, you know, stay downtown, walk. I mean, they've even opened up open a policy for big game day that, hey, you can, you can take, take your beer from, from place to place and walk Vegas style, you know, but it's so, it's that, that camaraderie, I think that, that it creates with that in terms of, hey, you can have a group of buds that, you know, come for a weekend, enjoy a great game, but, but you have enough to do because it's compacted enough that you can walk every, everywhere you want to be. And plus beautiful airport and that type of stuff and so great town, but I tell you, the people are amazing. And you know, again, that Midwest feels is neat to be a part of.

That's awesome, man. I appreciate your time. I mean, if you're, if you're a high school, high school school district out there, an athletic director, and you haven't gotten yourself involved as much as you should with the nfhs, please go check it out. It sounds like an unbelievable organization. And so Mark, just want to thank you for your time one last time.

Andy, thanks. Thanks for what you do. And I can't wait to have you hopefully one day, part of our events. I'd love to have you speak to our people.

That would be awesome.

And ultimately make us better because, you know, as we hear these messages and we put them to life, you know, we're affecting, you know, 12 million students every year. And that number of course changes because seniors leave, freshmen come. And so 12 million students each and every year, it's a big impact on.

That's a lot of impact. That's a lot of impact. Well, Mark Koski, CEO, National Federation of State High School Associations, you heard it from the man. Mark, thank you for your time. And if you're listening, enjoy this conversation. And please, please, please do yourself a favor, go check out nfhs. Mark, thank you.

Thank you, Andy, Appreciate your time. We'll see you, buddy.