The 90s Called — They Want Their Marketing Back

Our client retention is everything to us. You know, we spend a lot of resources on educating our clients, being the ones to tell them about this new topic. The insurance industry is so flooded with other insurance agencies, so if you're not the one educating your client, the agency down the block is.

Hey, welcome back to the accelerate your insurance sales podcast. Andy Neary here I am. Excited to have the one and the only Ms. Aubrey King, marketing director with McConkey Insurance and Benefits. Aubrey, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

You bet. We're gonna have an awesome conversation about marketing today. But first, before we get into all things marketing, talk a little bit about yourself. How the heck did you find yourself in the insurance industry? Most of us did not get here by design.

No, that's a great question. And actually, I get asked that all the time when I meet people and I tell them what I do and specifically that I'm at an insurance agency, people's first question is, why insurance? And, you know, I. I came from insurance, so I kind of started at an association that provided insurance solutions to counties in Pennsylvania. So I kind of fell into it by chance. Started out as their marketing intern, then marketing associate marketing manager and then marketing director there. I was there about seven years. That's all I knew out of college. I loved it. I loved the people, I loved the work. I loved taking something boring, like insurance boring. From my perspective, people who are in.

Insurance and like a true marketing director.

People who are in insurance tell me all the time it's not that boring, but from my perspective, it is extremely boring. So I loved this idea of taking something boring and trying to have fun with it and making it fun and trying to storytell and make it relatable. Then I was just looking for new opportunities. McConkey popped up, and then I've been here for about three years now.

That's awesome. Love that. You know, and I wanted to have you on for two reasons. Number one, a lot of agencies struggle when they hire people in marketing. And what I see is they hire somebody. I'll give a prime example. You do. See this agency owner hires his or her, his niece or nephew because they're young and they know social media, and that's what designates marketing director. Well, what happens. What happens in that moment is marketing becomes more of an order taker. And now executives are passing the marketing strategy on to the marketing team to produce marketing. And if the strategy being shared with the marketing is not good, they're just sharing a really bad thing versus having a marketing team that is creative, who's got that creativity to say, no, I know what we create. We can create to generate opportunities and leads. And you have that ability. And that's why I wanted to have you on. It's a rare, rare thing I see in the insurance industry. The second reason I wanted to have you on is you are a huge fan of the Office, which I am guilty of often running, watching reruns of the Office. So I do have to ask, what is your favorite episode, if you can recall one right now?

Oh my goodness. Really putting me on the spot. I mean, there's so many good ones. Probably my favorite one. And I only am thinking about this because I actually did a talk a few weeks ago about marketing, humanizing marketing. And I made my entire presentation around the office. So I really got to dig in and really pull up some iconic scenes. But I think the one where Michael Scott is introduced to the new software that Dunder Mifflin was rolling out Dunder Mifflin Infinity and he didn't like that, wanted to take things old school. Did the client gifts, the chocolate turtles driving into the water. I mean there's so many iconic.

One where they drove into the water. GPS says turn here.

Yeah, yeah. But no, that's pretty much all I watch.

Well, it's kind of close to home. You guys are in York, based out of Scranton, right? Yeah, not that far. I love that talk. Talk to me a little bit about this as well. We're gonna get to know Aubrey a little bit before we dive into marketing. You are somebody, you said offline. You like to set little challenges for yourself. So my guess is you're competitive. Talk to us a little bit about chat. Like, give me examples. When you say I love to set little challenges for myself. What, what that might. What might that look in a given week?

Yeah, in a given week. I. Well, the first thing is, is this year one of my goals was to work out every day. So I got a peloton and I think I'm on 188 day switch.

So your streak's alive.

The streak is alive. Well, you know, that was really to teach some discipline and the whole concept of do it anyways, right. Like no matter what I was going through personally, professionally, no matter what chaos was in my life, I said, I'm getting up every morning by 5, working out, non negotiable. And then once I did that, I was like, this isn't enough anymore. Like I want something new. So I've done Whole 30 for 30 days. Did that. I Was like, this is great again, I need something new. I recently just finished up something where I ran a mile every single day.

For a month. So I did that. So just always trying to set things, you know, like this week I could just say, hey, I'm going to cut out all sugar this week. So just really trying to think of little challenges.

Love that.

And little goals just to keep things fresh and to. Yeah, I just feel like if I don't have something like that going on, I tend to get really bored. So it's been helpful.

Yeah, I like that. I, I have a little quirk about myself where I love the training process. Like, I love to train as if I am going to be participating in a race, yet I don't do the race. I love. To me, it's a process. Right.

Yeah.

I think what you're doing is kind of a similar thing, like running a mile every day for a month. That's a process. And I'm sure there were plenty of days you had to talk yourself into it.

Oh, pretty much all 30 days.

Discipline. But that's why you are successful. It's those little. How you do one thing is how you do everything. And so those little challenges you present to yourself on a personal level, I'm sure have big impacts on how you operate inside the office.

Yeah, for sure. And one quick little thing, it's almost like a joke in our household now. Like if my husband comes home and, you know, it's just vegetables for dinner, he's like, oh, great, here we go. Cutting out everything challenge. So you never know when it's coming. But I just kind of get the itch and pick something and then run with it.

That's funny. That's awesome. I love that. Well, let's talk marketing.

Yeah.

Let's just start with the basics. You're. You've been in the. You've been working with an insurance agency for three years now. And when you look at marketing in general in the insurance industry, what do you think are some of the bigger misconceptions our industry has when it comes to marketing?

That's a great question. And I think there are obviously a lot. I think the biggest misconception is that marketing can only happen behind a desk. You know, that marketing is only emails, posting on social media, updating a website, when, from my experience, some really impactful marketing comes from being out and about, you know, being in the community, meeting people face to face, building those relationships, you know, trying to show up and find opportunities to be relevant where your clients, where your prospects Are. You know, I think marketing and insurance in a lot of different industries but specifically in insurance can seem very much like only a promotion instead of building connection and trust. And you know, you can't always build connection and trust from behind a screen. So I think that's a big misconception that I see.

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Take the next step today. Visit trucaptive.com and discover a smarter way to manage health care that is true captive.com It's a really good point. You know, marketing is, is done. The intent of marketing is to help support sales. But the way you said that I thought was very appropriate. I think a lot of agencies look at marketing as sales and instead of using it to nurture, build trust, know like and trust ability, they use it to sell and pitch people and everything is a promotion. Yeah, I like that. I think I, I completely agree with that. You know I look at a lot of agencies out there and, and I'd say it's a lot of the one, you know, traditional ones that have been around for quite a while. Why do you. They. They are still hesitant to leverage a lot of what I would call the modern mainstream channels of marketing today. I'd be curious if you have any thoughts as to why. Why would they still be hesitant?

Yeah, I mean I think just, you know, it's out of their comfort zone. Right. Like it's that whole idea of, you know, the resistancy to change. Like why should we change our model? It's worked for the last 50 years. Right. Like we are still around. We're not going under. Why should we invest in something or try something new? I think that's a huge thought that people have.

Yeah, it's. How do I say this? There's a lot of being proud of the past in our industry and I think because of your point, well, this has worked for us for 30, 40 years.

Yeah.

Why should we change? I do think that's what keeps a lot of agencies from investing time and money into the marketing that works today. I'D love your perspective. You said something a few minutes ago about being out and about not behind a desk. What advice, if you're willing to share, would you give another marketing director who might be listening, who is caught behind a desk just sitting and waiting for somebody, the executive, sales reps, whoever, to deliver a project they must complete called marketing, where they could be out and about? You do a great job of being out in the community. Right. What advice would you give that marketing director?

Yeah, I mean, I would say just invite yourself, right? Like why not just say, hey, if I am to market our agency, if I am to support our sales team, if I am to promote all the great things we do, then I need to understand our audience a bit better and I think I need to have a bit more visibility and try to build those relationships. So I would just start by asking and building a case and if that doesn't work, just invite yourself and see how it goes.

Well, and I think one thing you've done a great job with is you as the marketing director have actually been pretty active in developing leads from a business development perspective. And I think that's a very important point for people to hear. I think we all know marketing is done is to support sales, but I still see a lot of agencies that do look at marketing and sales as two separate silos. And we have agencies that still think marketing is quoting. No, no, no, that's quoting. We're talking about marketing to get attention.

Yeah.

In your opinion, we. One thing we definitely have in this market today is noise, Right. There are a lot of brokers out there today, a lot of agencies. In your opinion, how does marketing or how can marketing play a role in differentiating? Because I think one of the issues in our industry is everybody's marketing looks the same.

Yeah.

What, what role does marketing play in trying to differentiate in the market?

No, I think that's so true. You know, whenever I talk to people, I always say, you know, we could drive from our office in York, you know, to the other side of York and pass a dozen or so insurance agencies. And most of them will probably offer a very similar product or has very similar capabilities within reason, you know, so at McConkey, you know, in a lot of ways it's easy to market McConkey just because of our unique model. I always tell people that McConkey's model is extremely unique, where our producers, our salespeople, they are non commissioned, which is really unheard of in the insurance industry. It's like your realtor selling your home and not getting a percentage of that home sale. So it's super unique. But it really is such an amazing thing to have with for a client because we're able to hire non traditional insurance people. So we hire accountants, attorneys, HR directors, which is huge for employee benefits. I mean, imagine, you know, when you're at renewal time or you're working with your employee benefits. Producer actually did this before they are an HR director, they went through renewal season themselves. They switched plans. So it's such a great thing to offer to our clients and other businesses to have people that are non commission. And it ultimately allows us to make every interest, every decision in the best interest of our clients.

Yeah, that I, I forgot about that. I mean, I think where a lot of agencies try to market, market themselves as different by using very cliched taglines like we're the trusted advisor. Yeah, no kidding. Everybody else is. But you guys actually have a differentiator in how you pay your producers, which means they're not going to be overly salesy. And I think when you have an actual differentiator, very few, if any, in your market have. That becomes a marketing weapon. That's why I tell our clients, if you have a process you use to win business, give that process a name. Because even if it's a similar process as the competition, it's going to sound different because it has a name. But you guys actually have a differentiator in how your, your producers get paid. I actually. Yeah, it's. It is awesome.

Yeah. So it makes it really easy for us. Right. Because we're not just promoting the different products we offer. We really get to tell our story and really try to resonate and connect with our clients. So marketing at McConkey definitely uses that for storytelling and really uses that to connect with our audience.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. You know, I. And I think this year is it. Next year McConkey will be celebrating its 135th year right now.

25 cents here.

You're right. Yeah.

This year. Yeah.

I mean, you talk about telling a story. You guys have been around for 135 years, right? How many agencies, independent agencies can say that today? Very few. That's a story I'm sure you guys are having a lot of fun telling in your marketing.

No, it's been a huge. The 135 has been a huge part of our marketing strategy for this year.

Let's have some fun and let's build a marketing strategy together. So I want you to put your marketing director hat on here. If we were to Build a marketing strategy from scratch right now, New agency, new marketing plan. Where would you start?

I would first start with what is their story, what's your message, what point? What are you trying to get across? Right. Like it's more than just hey, we offer employee benefits and business insurance kind of what's your non commissioned? How do you differentiate yourself? Like how we have the non commissioned.

Okay, so what makes us different?

Correct, what makes you different?

Okay, how about audience? How would I identify? Or how could we identify who the right audience is?

Yeah, and audience are probably my second thing for sure. You know, I would say based on what you offer, who are you planning to offer that to? And really try to laser focus on that audience and then using your messaging and kind of tailoring it for that audience. Right. Like if I'm sending out something, I'm not going to have the same piece of content written in the same way. Go to HR for employee benefits, the CFO for commercial, or the risk manager. Like it's going to be tailored based on my audience. So I think that's also a very important piece of the marketing strategy.

Yeah, I think what you just said is something I want everybody to hear. It's, you gotta be telling the prospect story. But more important, you can't just put one static message across everybody and expect it to hit everybody the same way. How you talk to a CFO of a construction company is very different than how you talk to an HR director of a manufacturing company. And you can't run one campaign and think somehow that's gonna hit them at the same pace at the same time at the, you know, with the, with the right message. The same message. Okay, so we've got telling your story.

Yeah.

Make sure the message is directed at the right audience. Let's talk about channels because this is where I think a lot of agencies go wrong. Right again. Traditional marketing pamphlets, brochures, billboards, sponsoring hole number nine at the local association, gal founding. That's all forms of traditional marketing in the industry. We still can be leveraging them. But what other channels would this mark, would this agency have to be using to market effectively?

I mean, LinkedIn.

Okay.

I would say, I mean you have access to your key decision makers. I mean most C suite professionals from all sorts of different businesses and industries are on LinkedIn. So you have such a great opportunity to not only promote your agency but also your producers as well.

Okay, so we got LinkedIn. Where else should we be putting that message?

I would say probably all social media. Just because it doesn't Hurt to have it all because you never know the right where people are looking just to kind of help with that. We also use YouTube to post our videos. So we have it on social media. We have it on YouTube as well. And I mean also your website, which I know sounds kind of lame in some ways, right? Like, oh, obviously your website. But I will say that, you know, I spend a lot of time looking at websites and not necessarily competitors, but just other websites in general. And a lot of people, their copy on their website is nowhere near what it could be. You know, when you look at websites, it's very generic. Their messaging isn't as strong as it probably could be. It doesn't have a great storytelling. It's all about them instead of about, hey, these are things that we can do for you. And making it about the person visiting the website and. And then also, you know, using your website as a content hub, you know, putting so much content on there so that you're constantly driving traffic to your website. Where then, hey, I found this blog because I googled it and now I'm on your website and wow, that agency is reading my mind. Like, this is exactly what I'm struggling with. I'm going to reach out to them. So those are my top, I would say social media, YouTube and website, for sure.

I agree with everything. And I'm at a couple, you know, what you just said, the LinkedIn, the YouTube and the website, there's a huge reason it makes you searchable. If somebody looks you up online, all that stuff pops up. And LinkedIn is where business executives exist. Right? YouTube, if you got, if you're doing video content, which you as a team are doing a fantastic job, not just at the marketing level, but the producer level. And then your website becomes a hub for all of that video blog content. I think agencies need to understand the game of websites have changed. It's no longer a static landing page. It's a living, breathing thing now that has to tell the story of your ideal prospect and become the hub of your content the way you use it. Now, one more, one more note. You guys are in York, Pennsylvania, a lot of businesses that are probably very local, right. Don't be afraid to use platforms like Facebook because if you have businesses that are very geographically driven, Facebook is a very good place to use linked social media content as well.

Yeah, for sure.

Now I would love your thoughts. So we've got, okay, we've got to have the right story, we got to have the right prospect, we've got to have the right Channels. Let's go to the next place. Email campaigns 1. Do you believe they're important today in a world where it is hard to get opens and replies and if so, how best should we be using email campaigns in our new market, our new insurance agency?

So yes, a hundred percent. I think email is important.

I.

We send out lots of emails to various different audience on very. On various different topics. I think it is extremely important. Do I think it's where you should put all of the eggs in your basket? No, I think it's one piece of a much, much, much larger marketing strategy for your agency. But I do think it's an important piece of that strategy. We send out. I can't even rattle off the number maybe 15 newsletters a month. I think within that.

Why 15?

They're all tailored for specific industries, different messaging. So that's a big thing too. Right. And again are making it about our clients. You know, we're making it tailored for them. We are not just blasting out an email. Hey guys, McConke, he's been around since 1890.

You should hire us.

Yeah, we offer employee benefits, commercial lines and surety reach out here. Click, click. You know, so we are very intentional about call to actions. We're very intentional about what's going in these newsletters. Most of the time it is just education, right? Like we are just educating our the people on our email newsletters, letting them know about different things, events, things like that. Rarely ever have we ever put explicit click here for a quote kind of thing. It is all educational. Most of the time the call to action is read more or sign up for this webinar. So we do a lot of email marketing and we have seen a lot of success in them. We've, you know, seen we have gotten new business leads from email marketing. And I think another important thing about email marketing, it's not just from a sales new business process prospecting mindset. I mean it's also for retention. You know, our client retention and our client satisfaction is everything to us. You know, we spend a lot of resources on educating our clients, being the ones to tell them about this new topic, being the ones to educate them. Because like we talked about earlier, the insurance industry is so it's flooded with other insurance agencies. So if you're not the one educating your client, the agency down the block is. So we're also, we also look at email marketing from two kind of different brains. One, the prospecting to hey, we want to give our clients all the information, all the updates.

I just, I was Literally having a conversation this morning about, with somebody about that they, they, they've lost two pieces of business, two clients in the last year because a competitor came in and mentioned some strategy that they'd already talked to the client about but client didn't remember. So now the door has been open and they ultimately left them. And we were talking about why things like email newsletters are important because it keeps you top of mind with your clients. And if you use the newsletters to share ideas and strategies, they know you're constantly looking out for them. Don't just assume they're happy with the day to day service you provide them. You've got to stay in front of them. And I love that you look at that from that perspective. Guys, marketing is not about taking a cold audience and turning them into an appointments as quick as you can. That's how it was done 20 years ago. You have to nurture these people. You have to build brand awareness. And that's where email campaigns can become very effective. Effective is building brand awareness not just with prospects, but clients as well. You also mentioned webinars. You guys run a lot of your campaigns to get people to come to webinars. The point I wanted to make and what I wanted everybody to hear, Aubrey, and this is why you are doing such a good job notice what have we not talked about? Aubry and her team aren't sitting behind a desk saying can you create this brochure for us? You have built out an ex very sophisticated marketing strategy to build exponential awareness on social media, on YouTube, in emails, in webinars, out and about, in the community. This is what marketing looks like in 2025. I'd be curious, Aubry, social media because the, one of the coolest transitions I've seen is you've got a lot of team members now participating in the social media content creation.

What have been some of the benefits you've seen from the marketing perspective to have a larger chunk of your team actively involved in that content creation?

Yeah, I mean I agree. I think it's been really exciting. I mean like I mentioned, we are able to hire such experts here at McConkey. I mean the team really is everything. So I think it's really exciting getting our team out there and showcasing that. Right. So marketing does play a role in helping our sales team showcase that. So you know, helping out with content, helping out with, hey, this would be a great post. Can we help? So it's been really exciting to see that and building that credibility, you know, educating clients and prospects, building that Awareness. You know, our McConkey page is one piece, you know, but we have 40 other people that are client facing on our page that are also posting as well. You know, just creating that additional brand awareness. But it's been exciting. I think it's always hard trying something new. So it is exciting to see people getting excited about posting on LinkedIn. I mean, I get so excited when I open my LinkedIn account and I see someone posting. So, yeah, it's all been really exciting and it's been really cool to watch our digital footprint increase, which it has significantly.

Have you noticed, I'd be curious, have you noticed any impact with recruiting?

Yeah, definitely. And that is a huge piece. I like to say that from a marketing strategy point, clients, community, recruitment, and then new business. Those are like the four hats that I'm always like, okay, I have my recruitment hat on. Like, what? How does that look? So I do know that our HR department team has shared that during an interview with somebody, you know, and maybe it's not even an insurance role, it could be a tech role, a finance role, an internship role. They've disclosed that, hey, you know, I saw you on social media. It looks like your team has so much fun or like, I saw that reel that you guys made from your spring fling. So that's been really cool to see positive feedback because sometimes, you know, you're posting these things and obviously I love it. You know, I think my team here, the marketing department, does a great job putting out really cool videos and editing and creative ideas. So I love them all. So it's cool to know that other people like them as well and are watching them.

Yeah, I agree. I think that's a very unintended consequence in a positive way for agencies that decide to put themselves out, out there more with an online presence. It gives us a feel for what it's like to work with your team. So if I am that perspective, producer, account manager, account exec, this might be a place I want to work at. And so I, I love, I think you guys are doing a fantastic job. Now as we start to bring this thing home to a close, I want, I want to get your advice. I've got questions, I get questions from agency executives, big agencies, about marketing. So I'd love your perspective. So let's imagine you are, you are talking to a panel of top agency executives. You ready?

Oh, no, I'm ready.

One question I get a lot, especially when agencies start to see that online presence, right? That increased online presence from their, their team. They love it. But here's the question I invariably get, Andy. How do I make sure that I don't have people going rogue? How do I make sure that, okay, as long as they're producing content, how do we make sure that it aligns with our company's goals, brand, things like that? Do you have any advice?

I do. For us, we always tell the team, you know, to tie it back to McConkey somehow. You know, not every post, right. Because there is some value in maybe doing a more personal, like non work related post. But if you're posting content in general, you know, think of a way to always tie it back to McConkey. You know, think of a way to do the symbol. We make graphics for our team. That way if someone's posting a graphic, at least it's branded. But I definitely understand that because it's always that fine line, right, where you want your team to have their own brand, their own image, their own presence with, but with the goal of driving it back to the agency. So I totally understand that. If, if that was a problem, if that was happening and you thought that was problematic, a suggestion could be, you know, empowering your marketing department to step in and assist. You know, so maybe you have a monthly meeting with your sales, have your marketing team come in, have them talk about it, the importance of kind of tying things back to the brand because we're all on the same team and we all have the same goal. So that could be something to do, if it's not already happening, is to. Is to tie in your marketing team.

That's actually a great segue because it was going to be my second question. I'm an agency executive, got a large team here. I've been raised in the traditional forms of insurance marketing. But I know we need to change. I don't know where to start. What advice would you give that agency executive who knows he or she needs to change the way they're doing it? What would be your advice on how they approach their marketing team to help them make the transition?

Yeah, that's a tough one.

Think about what your guy, what you're doing at McConkey, right. And if you could give any executive advice on like, what do you need to let me do so that I can do what I do best to support sales and drive leads. What would that advice be to the agency executive?

Yeah, I think empowering your marketing department, you know, letting them know that, hey, you can kind of be more involved with the strategy. I think it starts there, right? Instead of just saying, hey, can you update this flyer or make this change on the website, letting them know, like, hey, you know, marketing has such a huge role in sales and there really should be more integration and there needs to be an overall strategy. I think a lot of the issues with traditional marketing versus where we are now is like we talked about, there is no strategy. You know, it's like these ad hoc kind of marketing tasks that I think could definitely be changed with a strategy and then just empowering the marketing department to run with things. Right. And be creative and not being resistance to change. Right. Because if you say, hey, I want to change the marketing up, then you have to be ready to then hear some ideas that may be out of your comfort zone, you know, and there's.

Yeah, so that's what I wanted. That's, that's what I was hoping you would say. Because I will tell you the number one issue I hear from the marketing side. The complaint is we've been hired to be the creative side of the business, yet executives are still telling us what to do. And if marketing is going to be effective at any agency, it's not the executives driving the strategy and telling what marketing do. You've got to let marketing do what they do best. You hired them to be creative, not order takers. And so if you're an agency leader listening to this and you want your marketing to work in 2025, give your team, your marketing department, the freedom to be creative. That's the number one tip I would give an executive right now. Don't drive the strategy on top of them. Let them come to you with the strategy. So I'm gonna ask one more question. You okay if I put you on the spot a little bit? Yeah. It's 2025. We're gonna go back to our, our marketing agents, our insurance agency. We're starting from scratch. You could only use one strategy for marketing. What would it be to drive the most impact? You only get one.

I'm going to say LinkedIn.

Okay. And I did not pay you to do that.

Yeah, LinkedIn like we talked about, I mean, most of your target audience, whether it's clients, prospects, COIS they're on LinkedIn. And you can have such a far reach on LinkedIn from your business page to your individual team members reach. I mean, you can put something out and have it hit thousands of people and you can do it. It's always open, right?

Like 24 7. Yep.

Correct. 365. So I mean it's always there and you can just generate so much content and it's easy, right? Like you could go on to ChatGPT and not like I'm 100% suggesting this because there's kind of nothing worse than seeing 100% AI automated content. But theoretically speaking, if you didn't know where to start, you could go to ChatGPT, get some ideas, make them your own though, don't just copy paste, put them on your LinkedIn and I mean you could just pump out those posts and just really build out this massive marketing Strategy just using LinkedIn and chat.

GB team Aubrey King marketing director of McConkey Insurance and Benefits Aubry, this has been awesome. Thank you for taking the time to do it. For everybody else listening in, please take Aubry's words to heart. If you want your marketing to work in 2025 and beyond, it comes down to what are you, who are you talking to, what are you saying and where are you saying it. And you have to change your mindset around how marketing works. And you have to let your teams have the freedom to be creative, to stand out in a very crowded market so they can do what you've hired them to do, which is drive leads. So Aubrey, thank you one more time. Thank you everybody else. Be good Earns Sales Podcast One of the most valuable things you can do to help us and other new potential listeners find our show is for you to rate the show and leave a review. So as a special bonus for you if you leave us a review, take a screenshot of your review and send it to me as a DM to my LinkedIn profile. I will send you a free copy of our LinkedIn Diamond Playbook, our proven four step strategy to grow your business on LinkedIn. So go right now, leave us a review, screenshot it and send me a DM on LinkedIn. Also, please share this podcast with anyone you think would enjoy it. That's it for now.